Um, is the rink director(s) CRAZY to allow LTS up to Olympians and pairs doing overhead lifts on the same ice? I don't care how skilled a pair team is, accidents can and do happen. I'd be afraid someone would drop on one of the fish school kids. And then who would be liable? I don't see any of this talk as "tantrum" or "entitlement", simply frustration that unskilled skaters who don't look where they're going are on the ice with skaters who have PAID to be there as well and are trying to get something done.

My five year old will NOT be on any kind of freestyle until he can skate with his eyes looking everywhere.

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Careygram

January: Sure I'll compete, quick, send the application
April: I signed up to do WHAT??

Carey, It may not work for all, but as I said it did indeed work for us and these kids quite well for the entire summer. I was also on a session in PA where Sr. pairs were working and there was a class of tots working on skills. They also did not have a problem. They also came to be familiar with and looked out for eachother. So it can and does work at some rinks. I've noticed that where it does work there'a an attitude of respect and cooperation not found at others.

Actually there was indeed reference to a feeling of "entitled", not that there has to be for someone to state it.

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Recycle Love - Adopt a homeless pet

This is really not an "ego-related" issue. Who gets along with whom, or who has which skills, is totally besides the point. This has to do with the danger of sending 3, 4, 5 and even 6 year olds out into a heavily trafficed high freestyle session. I bet if Social Services came an saw these toddlers moving about in traffic like this that they would certainly have something to say about it.

I'm really surprised to hear that Adult Pair Teams, who always emphasize safety first and formost within their own teams, are doing over-head lifts through a group of LTS kids? Pairsman2 and I would never chance that in a million years. Even for low lifts we scope out the session first and if there are babies on the ice we look at each other and say "no lifts today." Anything short of that would be totally irresponsible of us not only as skaters, but as adults. I really don't have anything else to say about this.

As I stated we were quite safe, and would not have done this if we were not. Our coaches, parents, and the kids had no problem with the set up. Before anyone makes their judgement and announces their "surprise" perhaps learn why it did work. And possibly, just possibly learn from someone's good experience. After all isn't that one of the reasons for this thread, or is it just to whine?
As I also stated vey clearly, this situation would not work for everyone, and I'm sure would not work for you Lovepairs.

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Recycle Love - Adopt a homeless pet

Here's the bottom line:

I wouldn't even send Mr. Meyerhoff out on a high free style session let alone a toddler!

And, that's all I have to say about that.

It's not just little kids who do stupid things during FS sessions. At 2005 AN, Nova and I were on a pairs-only practice session with three other pairs. That's right, there were only eight of us on the ice. While our music was playing and we were going through our program (just as we were stepping into sbs spins IIRC) one member of a masters pair team skated right in between us. No apology was forthcoming, either.

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Where are those knives when I need them?
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I need a detachable left foot!

Yes, that was incredibly rude, dangerous, and uncalled for. The only consolation was that her pairs event was canceled!

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Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
-Haha, I've *arrived*! I am listed as a reference on Wikipedia.

Lovepairs.
Your usage of the word princess comes across as though all young skaters view themselves as such. That is far from the truth.
You also made a comment about how 6 year olds view themselves as SKATERS when they can do waltz jumps and bunny hops. You come across as rude in that statement as well. Maybe you arent aware but there are plenty of 6 year olds with axles and working on doubles.
Unless you buy the ice yourself, there is no reason why skaters of all levels cant get along and work well.There is no reason why you cant tell a 5 year old, here are the rules. If you dont follow them we get off the ice. My 5 year old son can tell you where the lutz corner is, and how to see a set up of a jump.He know when doing skaters are doing programs to watch where he is at, and he know just as well when an adult is on the ice with a helmet holding onto the board to watch as he is the better skater then.He know when ... is on the ice to watch as he has huge jumps.He know when the dancers are on to watch the patterns.
My skaters arent special or genius. I dont think they are better than the adult skaters. They are all just skaters of different levels. We have 4 rinks, college hockey, hs hockey, mens hockey, pee wee hockey take up most of the ice.WE have to stick together.
We as a community have learned we all can skate on the ice we have. We do what we do with love, love of the ice for the skaters, love of the sport for the adults, love of the child for the parents. Its about RESPECT.If you start out that way, its the only way they will know.
Anyway it does work if you take the time to teach. Its not about age, its about skills and respect for others.Put a 10 year old just starting out on the ice and they have no clue either.But the young ones start out knowing how to act if they are TAUGHT. By coaches.By parents. By the older skaters as role models.

Its not perfect. Accidents happen. Sure it would be nice to have ice for all levels.B ut we dont, and I dont think we will at what it cost an hour to buy the ice. But we have had skaters go to regionals, Jr nats, nationals, go to lake placid for dance, and they grew up in a sharing enviroment.
We only have one pairs team in the whole state, and they arent in our city. But I know they share the ice too
I havent seen a skater here, adult or child, been asked to leave the ice. Does that happen alot where you are ?

a good post i think!

I think LovePairs is being misunderstood. we're talking about 5 year olds, maybe younger, who DON'T look out and DON't know how to skate whose parents and coaches put them out there in a dangerous situation. No, not every situation is dangerous but in some rinks there isn't the etiquette and education required to "make it work".

And no, Love Pairs and PairsMan 2 can't make it work as Flo correctly states because they are WICKED fast and have a huge back press and over head platter on the ice. When a pair is as fast as they are and covers the ice like they do, then they can't lose their focus to avoid a small, and adorable child and skater therefore they bail. And yeah, after six times attempting and having to abort a lift/skill, that can be frustrating.

I do pairs and I've seen adult pairs and no one is so good that they should be doing over head lifts near little ones who don't have control. If they accidentally fall in the path of people as fast as Love Pairs and Pairsman2 they could be seriuosly hurt.

I think they're being misunderstood and not allowed to vent a little frustration.

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Careygram

January: Sure I'll compete, quick, send the application
April: I signed up to do WHAT??

This was a bit rude in itself. You make it sound like that your children should have everything and anything they want. That no one can say otherwise. If that is the case then they are in for a shock as they get older. Kid cannot and should not have everything they want. They need to be taught from an early age that they are to respect those that are older then them, and that not everyone is going to think they are 'God's gift to the world' or a 'little princess' or whatever else their parents feed in to them.

They need to know that as kids they still have to learn respect and until they can learn that, they shouldn't be treated like 'older skaters'.

So what if they can do a jump, or a spin. Do they respect those around them. Like the adult skaters who are paying for skating on their own, not having mommy and daddy feed them with a spoon? If they don't have that, then they shouldn't be on the ice plain and simple.

Too many kids these days think they are everything and the world should revolve around them, all because their parents treat them like that and don't teach them respect.

Like I said not everyone thinks your kids are cute or adorble. Not everyone thinks they should have the same rights as adults.

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http://www.joelisi.net
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I think it has already been established that the problem appears to be rink specific. I also think 8 pages is quite a bit of room for venting! giggle.

Maybe asking the specific rink for solutions would help folks be less frustrated. It would appear that attitudes on both sides are ingrained at this point. Venting without viable solutions will only cause a power struggle. I think that has been demonstrated. whew!

As non productive as this thread has been....I have shame that I keep peeking in! lol.

They do when they pay the same amount as you do. Do you think you have more right than the skaters that OUTSKATE YOU ?
YES they do respect others on the ice OF ANY AGE. Didnt you read what I said?Do you not get it. Its not about you !! I think you JUST started.
What are you talking about, having mom and dad feed them with a spoon?
I have no clue what most of your post means? I said my skaters have been TAUGHT how to be on the ice. They skate with SENIOR level skaters with np.
Not one place did I say they get what they want. WHERE did you read that? Please let me know...Cause they work very hard EVERY day to share that ice with all the skaters in our club.

I did say they skate FINE with the adults, the diva teens, the novice ice dance team. and WE ALL GET ALONG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Tried to post the "Bridge Program," again...no luck.

Franklin,

You are hilarious! Always there with Mr. Ed at the right time! LOL!!!

Careygram,

Thank you for the compliment. I completely agree with you, and you are a total voice of reason! I know you are a fantastic pair skater and fantasic mom, and understand what I've been trying to say. It's not so much that we are totally frustrated and need to vent, as I sincerely believe that a crowded high-level freestyle session is NOT a safe environment for a toddler. Pairsman2 and I went so far as to purchase our own ice last year just so that we could practice without putting very little ones in danger. It's not about us, but about the kids.

It was funny, but I was reading another thread where AW1 was asking someone about a dress for her five year old. She described her daughter as being very tiny, and gave the kid's measurements. The little girl has an 18" waist. Pairsman2's bicep is 15" unflexed. It's really about size, awareness, and motor control, and I'm afraid that when there is too much disparity on the ice during one session that it creates a very chaotic and dangerous environment.

However, everyone, especially some of the parents of the toddlers seem to be really okay with this. Hey, I'm not a parent, so what do I know. Okay, instead of finding a solution, let's just all keep our fingers' crossed and hope that no one, especially the little ones, has a serious accident.

I can only wish that our young skaters were like your son. he is the perfect example of a skater that is definately not a hazard on the ice.

however, many children are not like this.

In my history of skating i've had 2 collisions. 1 was with a beginner (i.e. low LTS) 8 year old who tripped, fell and slid right behind me when i'd already done the 3 turn in to a flip. thankfully we both got away with minor bruises.

the second collission was with a young child of about 6 that decided to go into a camel spin right in the path of my axel set-up not giving me a reasonable amount of time to move out of the way and the girl ended up with a cut on her arm (note: for at least 20 minutes i had been repeating the axel over and over in the same exact spot and any skater who is aware of whats going on would have been aware of that- i don't remember it being a very crowded sessions either so there was plenty of space for a camel spin elsewhere). If it was an issue with someone doing their program and needing that spot- i would have gladly moved and given the person room, but no-this was clearly a diva attitude.

now, i know i don't speak for all little kids here but correct me if I'm wrong that i was not at fault in either of those situations- yet i ended up having to take a couple of nasty falls due to a kid who can't watch where they were going.

if all the toddlers were like your son...this topic would never have come up

Due to popular demand, I'm closing this thread down. Everyone's had a chance to state their opinions multiple times and it's time to take a breather from the tension.

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