I've had Proflex, the hinged boots about a year now. They were especially modified to allow for my enormous bunions. Unfortunately it seems the maker assumed this meant I must have very wide heels as well. The boots have never fit properly, and my right heel in particular slips up all the time.
It has proved almost impossible to heat mould because the hinged cuff prevents my getting to the area that needs pinching in.

I've tried various methods of packing the heels out. I wear a pair of gel sleeves cut so they fit down to the sole of the foot with some extra bits sewn on to pad the bit above the heel more, then covered with a bunga heel sleeve to further pad the heel area.

Lately the tongue foam has split where the two leather parts meet, giving me lace bite where there are no laces. (so add another gel insert there) And now suddenly something is rubbing on my third toe, and it's agony. It seems a lump has appeared in the lower part of the tongue, or perhaps just that the foam is breaking down there too. Unfortunately the toe has also swollen in response, making it worse.

Obviously I somehow have to bump the boot out above the toe (not easy to get at when the tongue is held in place with the wires).

If you were me, and you couldn't afford new boots, didn't have a pro-shop within 500 miles and couldn't afford the money or weeks off ice to send them back to the manufacturer, would you;

a) try to make adjustments to the boot yourself or;
b) continue trying to come up with the perfect protective sock?

And has anyone else come up with a perfect protective sock?

Any ideas?

__________________
Katz

Saved by Synchro!
I was over it, now I'm into it again !

Ow.

To think I'm thinking to get Proflex next time.

Anyway, have you tried contacting Jackson? I contacted them through a form at their website to ask about proflex. I've to say, they are very helpful and prompt. Perhaps you can give the whole story to them along with some pictures. Tell them that you can't send your boots away, and neither do you have a pro shop nearby. Maybe they can come up with solutions for you.

In the meantime, I suggest getting gel pads. I'm cheap, I admit, and I got those gel pad your use in shoes. It's sticky and is supposed to be stuck on the shoe. But I stick it on sore areas. It looks ugly after a while but well, it's cheap, and I can wash them, and no one can see how not nice they look after a while.

Try not to tie the swollen area tight.

I don't know how else to help. Uh. Right putting a donut in the sore spot too?

Good luck!

Hey SkatEn...

I've used self adhesive shoe pads in the heel of my somewhat oversized Reidells, but they slip down and end up under my heel during the skating session.

Do you have any problems with yours - stuck to the foot - staying put?

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Bill Schneider

Owie!

I think contacting the manufacturer is a great idea. They might have some ideas. And it might not be too late for free warranty work. Maybe for a few weeks you could adapt cheap used boots, or glue leather reinforcement inside some old ones.

If they can't give you satisfaction:

You've enough problems it is still worth looking for a pro, even if they aren't a skate pro. Anything you do will involve more experimentation than they would need.

If there is a good boot shop around (doesn't have to be a skate shop) many do boot stretches ("punches") too. So would most people who make or modify any kind of custom boot or shoe, be they cowboy boots or maybe even ballet slippers.

So do podiatrists and other foot doctors. I presume they are the best trained experts on shoe fit and modification, even if some of them don't entirely understand skates. Can you ask other local skaters (figure, hockey, speed, even inline) or other athletes who they have used? If you can afford it, maybe a trained medical person is the best place to start. Some athletic trainers and physical therapists work on this too. So do some skating coaches. Ask around.

Around here, some boot fitters travel to regional competitions to work on boots. Maybe there are some doing so at a competition near you soon. Call competition organizers to find out.

-----

As far as I can tell, most shoe people claim there should be little pressure anywhere on your toes. A small amount of pressure is OK above and below, but maybe (?) not where it is irritated, and probably no contact on the sides or front.

I expanded the area above my toes with a ball and ring pliers. An example of such a tool:

http://cgi.ebay.com/HOKE-BALL-BUNION...3286.m20.l1116

Here my brief instructions:

http://mgrunes.com/BootPain.html

It isn't the best tool for the job, because the area you want to stretch is likely larger than the ball, so you will have to stretch it, move the pliers a little, and stretch it again, a few times. It took me a few days. There are much better tools for the job; search ebay for

bunion stretcher

but I haven't used them. You need more pressure, time, heat and stretching fluid for a thick skate boot than for a thin shoe. Not all tools are up to the extra pressure.

A good woodworker could improvise something similar from a clamp or vice they have on hand.

You could remove the insole, put in something much thinner (felt, thin leather, paper, or carboard, cut to the shape of the current insole) to make space to play, then build it up with athletic tape in the back to make the rest of your boot still fit to your foot. This will change the general slant of your foot, maybe make modifications be needed in the rest of the boot. It will make toe points harder, but make heel extensions marginally easier (and your toe pick will hit accidentally less), and possibly change your balance point where you spin, turn or twizzle.

While you are at it, apply moleskin to the sides of the boot near your heels, so they can't slip. Or extend a few layers of tape beyond the boot, and bend it up so it wraps around your heels.

It sounds like the real answer is to remove and replace the tongue foam. I've never done that, no guidance from me. Maybe a good boot or shoe person would know what to do.

It doesn't sound like the boot was a great fit, though it is hard to know if it was the fitter or the manufacturer. Was it a custom boot? Was it fit by a pro, and was Jackson sent casts of your feet? Skate boot makers say casts aren't needed, and aren't used to make the last, but maybe they answer any questions about foot shape the maker has.

The ski industry has some thermoplastic moldable socks, but, if your toe top is irritated, there might not be enough room inside your boot, even if you remove the insole, and they are probably too long. I think some speed skaters use some too, but they are probably too short. So this answer, ideal though it sounds for figure skate fits, don't seem to apply to us, though you are welcome to look.

This probably isn't relevant, but when I tried wearing no socks inside my boots, I developed calouses on the sides of my toes and on the bottoms of my feet, though there was no slippage. Books also say chemical sensitivities to boot material somehow aggravate other shoe fit problems. So does moisture, so I hope you take off your boots whenever you can.

-----

This may be the wrong time to ask, but does the hinged boot idea seem to work well for you?

__________________
Mitch Grunes ModifyingBoots FallingGently HomePage

I think someone suggested a long time ago taking boots to a ski-pro shop. I don't know where you live maybe that's an option? Or skate (roller) shop.

I would call Jackson, as suggested. I thought the Pro-Flex was available in split-sizing as well??? Might want to ask them if that was an option you were not told about. I have my Elites split-sized; D-ball, AAA-heel because of my bunion and narrow heels.

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

I use mine on the inside of the ankle. It sticks, most of the time. When it doesn't, it doesn't get under my heel anyway. You may want to try washing the sticky side and make sure your feet are dry when you put it on! If all else fails, what about using surgical tape to tape it? Hope it works soon! I know about discomfort in skates!
==
Oh and before you make any adjustments to the skate, you may want to see if it's still under warranty! Otherwise you may just void it!

I wonder if you could glue the foam back together.

You could call Jackson to find out if they would recommend a glue. If not, you want to know what type of foam it is, so you can find a glue that sticks. You probably want a glue that both sticks to it, and acts as a filler.

I am thinking something like Aquaseal, a common glue used in neoprene wetsuit repair, though that might not stick to your foam.

I want to make it very clear I have not tried to glue foam back together. Maybe it's impossible. If you try it, tell us how it works, and what you used.

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Mitch Grunes ModifyingBoots FallingGently HomePage

I have the Jackson proflex boots, I had my feet measured and they made my boots with a nice narrow heel, when they needed repair, I contacted the company I bought them through and Jackson. It will take at least 2-4 weeks for them to be repaired. You need to get the tounges replaced is the easy answer and why didn't you send a tracing of your foot so the could fit the heel properly? On another note the hinge boots do seem to run large, I usually wear an 8 but in this I wear a 7.5 and they tend to be wide overall so you need to get a good fitter. Call Jackson, you will have to send the boots via the company you bought them through. If you live in the US remember they will have to go through customs.

__________________
Who me? Couldn't be....
http://www.youtube.com/bouldersk8r

I did send tracings to the Australian distributor, which I believe were supplied to Jacksons so they could see the weird shape of my feet. It took a while to figure out the fitting problem because they felt so different to my previous boots.

I'm very reluctant to send them back to Jackson's because it'll be more like 6-8 weeks from Australia.

__________________
Katz

Saved by Synchro!
I was over it, now I'm into it again !

You cannot glue the tounge back together, I tried. You need to send them back to Jackson it is just that simple. You need a good fitter with a variety of the hinge boots in stock so you can get a better idea of size. As i said they run wide and big, I have two pairs and I have solved some of my problems by getting a liner from a ski shop which helps my boot fit better in the boot and makes the arch much more comfortable.

__________________
Who me? Couldn't be....
http://www.youtube.com/bouldersk8r

I'm just providing information for a point of reference.
My friend, The Big Guy, wears Jacksons (off the rack) and he's big enough and a hard enough skater that he goes through a pair of boots and blades every year (that is -- he replaces them both at the same time). So he's *very* hard on his boots.
He's never had the problems you describe of the tongue falling apart. He's also a foot sweater. The inside of his boots are like a swamp after he skates. If anyone can tear apart a pair of boots, it ought to be him. And it doesn't happen.
So, maybe, just maybe, your boots might be defective. Since they were customs, there's always that opportunity in quality control slip ups, that don't seem to apply when things are produced on a production line.
It may be useful to note to Jackson's that the boots are defective, and fail to fit even though custom made. If you are lucky (and forceful enough in your letter) you may get a replacement.
(My skate tech has tried to get me to have some custom boots made by Jackson's -I want a lower heel-but after reading your experience, I would hesitate to do it. )

__________________
Great forum quotes:
On Falling: '...it doesn't matter, it's what you do AFTER you fall that's more important' ISK8NYC

Coskater, Katz (and I) live in a country where skating is very much a minority sport. There is no pro shop in the whole country which carries a variety of these boots in stock. You order 'em, you buy 'em. Short of flying to the US to be fitted (which I understand is exactly what many if not most of our high-level skaters do), she has no other option but to mail order.

Thanks Aussieskater, it's hard for people who live in the US or UK to understand our situation here.

I started to write to Jacksons, but really, what do you say?

I think I have to go with some sort of sock to pad them out. Coskater64, can you tell me more about the liner you got from the ski shop? Is this something that can pad out a boot effectively?

My own efforts at coming up with a sock have been expensive and unsuccessful so far. I am not defeated, I shall try again.

__________________
Katz

Saved by Synchro!
I was over it, now I'm into it again !

Just to let the aussies know, it's not exactly THAT much better in the UK. We have the odd pro shop but most of them sell low end boots. We've just got the advantage of someone ordering them in for us. But again, it's a order and buy it scenario because the shops aren't really wanting to order some specialist boot in some odd size which then doesn't get bought. The kids have more options than the adults as there's more likely to be another one coming along whereas those in clodhoppers aren't so common.

Good luck with the letter to Jacksons. I hope they are responsive to the situation and come up with a reasonable suggestion because it does sound like that they are defective. I've had my Jackson Elite Pluses for about 5 yeards now and the tongue lining is beginning to wear thin, but is not breaking away. I've just bought Jackson synchro boots and I would hope that they would last just as long. Please let us know if you get a response from Jacksons.

Actually, there are a couple of professional skate fitters who know about feet and skates, although it is not always convenient to call on them, and at least one has been hoping to sell his business and retire, although this hasn't happened yet. But they know far more than your average hockey guy in the skate shop, and it's worth making a special trip to visit them for a proper fitting, at least once. Once you know what you need, of course, you can then re-order via the pro shop.

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Mrs Redboots
~~~~~~~~
I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

There at least seem to be some pro shops. I went to a search engine and looked for

australia "ice skates"

and found

http://www.iceskates.com.au/
http://tecboaustraliasports.trustpass.alibaba.com/ (manufacturer)
http://www.bladeschool.com.au/
http://localskateshop.com.au/
http://www.armoursmith.com.au/
http://www.bladeworx.com.au/catalogue/category65
http://www.rollerway.com.au/
http://www.riedellskates.com/src/dea...ils.php?id=736
http://www.skateaway.com.au/shop.php
http://au.adroo.com/?view=ads&catid=...tyid=1&lang=en

I stopped looking after the first few pages.

Some upper end artistic roller skates are identical to those used in ice, so shops which can work with roller may also be able to work with the ice, even if some of them don't know how to mount blades.

If you go to any major search engine, and look up "casting socks", you will find places to buy them. If you do a reasonable job of casting your feet, I would hope a true custom bootmaker would be able to manufacture a boot which comes within a few hundredths of an inch of fitting - hopefully within what you can remold using heat, ball and ring devices, and tape

I haven't used casting socks. I found it cheaper and more fun to figure out how to modify the fit of my boots.

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Mitch Grunes ModifyingBoots FallingGently HomePage

Query, with respect, you should maybe have clicked through on a few links before making your post. I did, with the following result:

iceskates.com - does not deal in Jacksons and in any event is online only.
tecboaustralia - hockey and a few rec skates.
bladeschool - skateboard, inline and hockey.
skateshop - Reidell only.
armoursmith - hockey only.
bladeworx - in Jackson, sell only the Elite and boot-and-blade packages.
rollerway - roller and inline only.
Reidellskates - speaks for itself.
skateaway - roller and inline only.
adroo-com - advertising accumulator.

AFAIK, most pro-shops - certainly in Sydney - don't sell high-end figure skates (which the Proflex certainly are) except on an "order to buy", rather than "order to try", system. As a beyond-beginner skater, I believe that the the proshop with the largest range of Jackson boots, and therefore having experience with Proflex, is in Sydney - a distance of over 600 miles as the crow flies from the OP's home state (and the crow would need to fly, as many of those 600+ miles are over the ocean). I don't believe the Melbourne proshop has experience with Proflex, but would be happy to hear otherwise.

Maybe I should have looked more carefully. But Australia certainly has pro shops.

I wasn't looking for Jackson dealers, and certainly not for Pro-flex dealers, but for people who can work on skating boots, if you don't feel confident enough to do it yourself.

People who work well on hockey and roller skating boots can work on ice skating boots too. Maybe not for mounting or sharpening blades, but for fit adjustments. If anything, hockey skates are harder to stretch.

You can call the pro shops to see if they feel up to stretching and otherwise modifying boots to fit. It is your choice whether you want to.

>iceskates.com - does not deal in Jacksons and
>in any event is online only.

I mentioned http://iceskates.com.au

Whether or not they sell Jacksons is irrelevant to whether they can work on skates. They have a phone. I didn't call them - perhaps they do service too.

>bladeschool - skateboard, inline and hockey.

People who can modify hockey skates can probably also modify figure skates.

>armoursmith - hockey only.

http://www.armoursmith.com.au/figure...ng/cat_71.html has figure skates.

>bladeworx - in Jackson, sell only the Elite and
>boot-and-blade packages.

They deal with high end figure skates. Should be able to modify whatever you have.

>rollerway - roller and inline only.

People who work on roller skates can also work on ice skates.

Similar comments apply to some of the others.

>AFAIK, most pro-shops - certainly in Sydney -
>don't sell high-end figure skates (which the
>Proflex certainly are) except on an "order to buy",
>rather than "order to try", system.

I don't know anyone who sells "order to try" skates. (But most high end custom skate manufacturers have a money back guarantee, probably including Jackson.)

I notice there are a few more stores in Sydney, e.g.:

http://sydneyskateshop.com.au

http://www.skaterhq.com.au/browse/br...105&CatID=1051

If where you are doesn't have any good shops, perhaps Sydney is cheaper to fly to than shops and manufacturers in U.S., Canada, Italy or Eastern Europe. I've known people to cheerfully fly 500 miles or more to a pro shop.

In any event, perhaps you can buy used skates cheap, or use your old ones, modify the fit yourself. As long as the fit is reasonably close, and they provide sufficient support, it really isn't that hard, especially if there is a little extra space to fill, rather than something that needs stretching. (Reinforcing old broken down skates is much harder.) Or rent the best rental you can find. Then send the custom boots back to Jackson for a refund or modification (with casting socks, if they say they can use them).

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Mitch Grunes ModifyingBoots FallingGently HomePage

This might be an option, as it would keep you on the ice while your boots have surgery back in the States. I think you should at least write a detailed email and send it to Jackson and see what happens from that. Sounds like something busted loose inside (tongue coming apart?)

There was a batch of pro-flex boots (the first batch that came out) that had some "glitches" and were replaced. Maybe yours was among that batch but was missed because you are remote? It's worth mentioning if push comes to shove.

If anything, you can either have a cheapo set of skates for 2 months or be off ice for 2 months (maybe you still have your old skates? you will have to ship your skates without blades anyway).

__________________
Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Someone really ought to sell a moldable sock you can put inside figure skates...

Bet the master bootmakers would hate them.

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Mitch Grunes ModifyingBoots FallingGently HomePage

That was the one I meant.

My bad. I do apologise.

Katz, good luck with your boots.

Exactly what I think. There has to be a better way to ensure correct fit in skate boots.

Query, most Australian skate selling places aren't what you'd call a pro shops. Some are, those based at rinks more likely. The Australian distributor of Jacksons is based at a rink, and she was really good in helping me with my order. It is always going to be hard via email, fax and phone compared to in person fittings.

Suggestions to use a cheap skate while awaiting repairs don't take into account that Proflex are so very different to other skates. You can't just switch in & out of them - or at least I couldn't.

I need a sock/liner/whatever. Wouldn't it be great to have something like the casting socks only with a gel that sets to the same texture as bunga sleeves. Something you could put on and pull a tag to activate it, then put the foot & sleeve in the boot and wait for it to set. Imagine having something that filled in the roomy areas without bulking out the snug areas. And that you could put on and know your boot fit right every time!
Ah, that sounds like heaven!

__________________
Katz

Saved by Synchro!
I was over it, now I'm into it again !

This reminds me of that 3-D molding/imaging system that doctors (and some manufacturers) use to replicate knees, hips, etc....they can scan via MRI/X-ray/CT scan a body part and replicate a mold of it in this 3-D "printer" for the technician. The technician and the doctor use the mold to make a duplicate or mirror duplicate. Takes into account your individual body measurements.

Now, if they could just scan your feet, and apply it to the manufacture of a real custom boot......

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

There is at least one scanning system used by custom last makers to make custom shoes. e.g., see http://globalfootwearsolutions.com

Someone in another forum tried that route, but since none of the major skate makers could use the results, had to use a cowboy boot maker, who didn't make skates to their liking. The whole process was time consuming and expensive, and too many people were involved to get the money back.

I'm wouldn't trust the spray-in construction / insulation foams to be skin-safe. Perhaps there a medical foam that could create an instant fit.

The thermoplastic molding socks used in some cross country skis would be about the right height, but there might not be enough space in the OP's boots.

There are plenty of moldable orthotics. Most only mold to the bottom of the feet, not the sides, or only mold to the foot, not the boot, which means they move around. One person here was told a too-wide orthotic that had been jammed into the boot so it wouldn't slip gradually widened her boot until it was too loose.

If you can feel where it is slipping or isn't tight, one can fill the space with tape (under the insole) and moleskin (on the sides of the boot), in between a few minutes and an hour, depending on how big the changes are. A lot of people do it themselves, in many types of boot and shoe. As I said, several types of medical and non-medical experts do it too. (Leather stretches take more time.)

We have made a lot of redundant suggestions. The decision is up to the OP. I'm done.

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Mitch Grunes ModifyingBoots FallingGently HomePage

What do you use to stick the moleskin to he boot lining? Haven't had much success so far with self-adhesive products.

__________________
Katz

Saved by Synchro!
I was over it, now I'm into it again !