Hello Everyone,

The Adult Skating Committee needs to know your thoughts on use of vocals in freeskate programs. Currently it is allowed as passed at the recent Governing Council.

My question to you is: Does vocal music belong in adult skating music programs or not?

Please comment "Yes" or No".

Happy to hear your additional thoughts on the subject, but a more urgent answer of yes or no is needed so the committee can present what the adult skating community would like to USFS.

Thanks!

~ Lexi

I think vocals should be used for interp only.
I love a nice freestyle program with instrumental music. It leaves more to the imagination. The lyrics would disrupt the flow.
It would be like MTV ruining songs for me after I saw the video.
Skating is a visual art.

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NO

Bringing vocals (and by vocals I mean lyrics, not what was previously allowed) takes away from interp events and could create problems in the artistic marks of freeskates based on the interpretation of the music with lyrics versus someone without.

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I prefer to leave vocals in the Interp. categories only. So put me in the "No Vocals" for technical programs camp.

I don't care either way.

In favor of it b/c of the variety of music. In the end, you still have to complete all those jumps and spins with the 1:50 timeframe. I am sick of trying to find THE perfect song and having to worry about cutting out vocals for those pieces that has smidgen of vocals or spoken words. And right now given my skating level, I really can't do much in the way of programs other than classical, some Spanish and slower new age pieces. It would take me YEARS before one would ever see me do an instrumental pop piece for FS b/c of the demands of the skating to do justice with the choreography for those. And no, symphonic "Paint It Black" does NOT count and I would not want to do something like that either!!!

NOT in favor of it b/c of how the second mark would be scored and that someone with vocals would have an advantage over the those who do not. I actually would be more for no vocals PERIOD (i.e...the KIDS are also not allowed to have it too! I'm more concerned with hearing runthrus of HM, HSM and Disney throughout the summer months than hearing the adult skate to music with vocals!!! If you are a kid reading this, I'm sorry!!! But hearing your runthru of the Lion King for the 4th time within an hour will drive any sane adult BATTY!!!)

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No.
In our comps (I'm in Australia), vocals can only be used in artistic programs, not technical. It does limit what one can do, but I think it also limits the quirky, novelty sort of interpretations of music. I think it is good to learn to tell the story without the words telling it for you.

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Katz

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I was over it, now I'm into it again !

LOL, I read the title quickly at first and thought "oh, we're talking about singing, THIS I know about!"

I guess I'm inclined to say no. In a perfect world, I'd say yes and skaters can say "bite me" to anyone who doesn't like their music, but in this imperfect world where it's far too easy for someone to get offended/pissed off about the lyrics, or for someone to be perhaps judged unfairly because those listening don't like the lyrics...I guess no vocals is better.

And, it does make it easier too in that there's no problem with "oh I really like this song but the vocals will be offensive/I like the music but don't like the words."

No, leave vocals to interp or else the competition would turn into one big interp-fest.
(Thanks for asking!!!!!)

It doesn't matter much to me but I voted to keep it restricted to certain events/categories. I skate ISI but choose to use instrumental-only for my skating. I've seen freestyle events that were somewhat distracting because of the choice of music (with vocals) used (which are allowed at ISI comps).

You would also have to police the vocals from time to time, as some feature very explicit vocals (I heard a comp piece at my rink and so did other people, luckily for the young lady the coach heard the vocals and changed the music).

For artistic or interp events, it's necessary for vocals; for others, not.

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Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

I don't care either way.

I don't think it will turn everything into a big interp-fest. An interp program is VERY different from a technical freestyle program, where the focus needs to be on getting in your jumps and spins, not spending all your time expressing the music or putting a character out on the ice.

I do not feel it gives anyone an unfair advantage, as some may have suggested. Some people are naturally good at picking music that is well suited for their skating style and ability. They're good at expressing music and putting on a performance despite the technical elements in their program, regardless of what they're skating to. Lyrics won't help these people. Others don't pick music that really suits them, or they just sort of go out and skate and don't really perform....lyrics are not going to put them at any sort of advantage. Others may get carried away with making a program too interp-ish and the technical elements that really matter in the whole package of a freestyle program may suffer.

I don't think picking music that is not appropriate is going to be a huge issue. People have to skate to this music in practice and typically on sessions where there are kids. Just like the discretion that should be used in picking interp music, if it's so bad that you can't play it on a session like this, maybe you should re-think skating to it. And since we're adults, age-appropriateness issues that I've seen in synchro won't be too much of a problem (I always cringed when I saw little juvenile, intermediate or novice teams come out and skate cutesy little programs to Chicago [musical, not the band]...even if the lyrics used weren't inappropriate, Chicago is not music children 14 and under should be skating to).

While I'm personally hesitant on doing a freestyle program with lyrics, at least for the foreseeable future (I keep programs for 2 yrs and had the new one halfway done between ANs and when this was voted on at GC), I think this leaves room for some music I've found that I really liked for skating but it either wasn't well-suited for interp, or I couldn't get a 1:40 cut of it that I liked. I also had a pice of music I LOVED with a little bit of faint whispering at one part, and it opens up more choices for me with regard to cutting that piece without having to edit that out. It also eliminates the gray areas of what constitutes lyrics and what does not--i.e. there was a masters skater this year whose music kept saying "cha-cha." (I know masters can't use lyrics, but this is just an example.) Is "cha-cha" lyrics, or is it considered "instrumental vocals?" What may be fine at one competition under one referee may lead to a deduction by another referee at a different competition. And from my experience competing interp and freestyle, and skating/coaching synchro, I find it much more challenging to pick and to CUT vocal music (particularly a song people are really familiar with) than instrumental.

Having been involved with synchro when rules regarding lyrics for the higher divisions have gone back and forth (went from jr/sr having lyrics, to no lyrics, then back to lyrics), and also training on sessions with a number of dance teams whose free dances allow lyrics, I think this has been for the better for these disciplines. It opens up more options/possibilities, helps differentiate one program from another and really made it more exciting. I think seeing what it would do with freestyle would be interesting.

I do see the valid concern that interp, particularly artistic in the adult category, may suffer. Masters won't be as much of a concern, some the freestyle skaters who compete freestyle--Alex, Amber, Amy, etc are generally high enough that they can't use lyrics in freestyle anyway, some are ice dancers who don't compete free, and gold skaters, and those of us silver or lower in masters by virtue of dance tests (such as Jen Martino, June Smith and myself) will still do interp because we like it. Regardless of category, it won't deter the people who do interp because it's another event they can do and they want to get their money's worth out of the trip. It won't deter those who want to do something completely off the wall that they can't do in a freestyle program. Or the people who flat out enjoy doing interp and prefer it over freestyle. It might actually force people to do better interps--you have a lot of people who just go out and do a freestyle program to music they like. Now that they can do that in freestyle, they may actually have to re-think the approach to interp.

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Whatever is decided, I personally will continue to use instrumental music for freestyles and confine vocals to interp. I will encourage my students to do the same.

In general, I prefer skating to instrumental music.

Kay

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I think that allowing lyrics is a good thing. Currently picking music for a program is a HUGE pain. It is difficult to find non-lyric music that is an appropriate length and character for a low level skater, and it is even more difficult to find music that has lyrics with the lyrics removed. "Free" software doesn't always do a good job, and many adults (and low level children) have neither the time to learn these programs, nor the inclination to spend even more money to get professional quality music. I have been to MANY competitions where you get those "ghost" lyrics from a bad job at audible, and it's unfortunate. The skater just wants to be out there skating, and when they are in a rhinestone free practice dress, you know they cut their music for free because they are keeping costs down.

By allowing lyrical music, no one is forcing anyone to use it. Instrumental music is not banned. Those who prefer it still get that option. This merely opens another avenue for those who either don't prefer, or don't want to pay for that. And I think that adult skating really should be inclusive and do its best to get every adult the chance to be out there skating.

And a technical program skated to music with lyrics is not the same as an interpretive program. It is no different from expressing the instrumental music. An interp program should be much better planned than just a program with words. If people equate the two, maybe their interps need a bit more work?


I guess the last thing to think about is why would it be okay for kids but not adults? The things that are different in the adult program than the standard program tend to have a reason- moves tests are reordered for a reason, dance tests have different scores, etc. What would the reason be that adults don't get vocals? Because adults are traditionalists? Might as well require figures to be 60% of the score. It seems a silly place to break from the standard program. The adult program shouldn't exclude something just because most people prefer instrumental music. Well keep using it then.

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Thank you to whoever posted the poll at the top of the page!

I'm in the no group. Keep the lyrics in interp. Then again, I wouldn't fall under the new rule anyway since I'm under IJS at AN.

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In freestyle programs, I think the lyrics will distract from the music as music.

Save them for interp programs.

I think vocals help make the interpretive events different and fun. Just mho.

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I think because (at least around here at USFS competitions) interp or, as they call them, "showcase" doesn't seem to be as popular for the kids as it is for the adults (only a handfull of the kids at my rink do it, and at most of our local competitions these events tend to be small compared to freestyle events, particularly at the higher levels). Plus they have different rules, such as props being allowed on the ice, that differentiate them more from a freestyle program to music with lyrics. It also seems pretty rare for a kid to do more of an artisitic program (for the most part, they don't have two categories like we do), what they do tends to fall more under light entertainment/comedy. I don't think the concern with adult skating and lyrics is having it infringe on the light entertainment/comedy category as much as it may on the artistic/dramatic.

I think, for the anti-lyrics people out there, if you don't like lyrics, don't use them.

Lexi, could we maybe go with a 2 yr trial period to see how it works? I don't think a year is good enough to really get an idea, and many of us do keep a program for more than one year. That way, there is a long enough time to see how it works out, and if people choose to go the lyrics route, they can keep the same program for two seasons before being forced to switch back to instrumental. I know it stinks having something like that and then having it taken away, but they've done it in other disciplines before and it wasn't that big of a deal (synchro did it to junior/senior in '94 because the ISU rules did not allow lyrics). You do run the risk of people not knowing the change if that happens, or having to throw together a new program at the last minute, but ultimately it's their responsibility to read the rulebook and, assuming it's printed in the competition announcements, to read that, too.

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Keep it in interp.

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Wang chung!

Great point. We are just trying to sort out the details for adult skaters for this year before we get to any permanent change.I very much appreciate the input!

I'm not sure this is a great idea - I worry about bad taste in music, bad editing and lyrics distracting for the skating.

BUT I need a new program and I very well may use Brandi Carlile's "Downpour"

The good thing about it --there are a lot of songs with vocals (like "Downpour") I would love to skate to. The trouble with putting it in an artistic is that most of the time - those programs are just freestyles with vocals anyway. Now the onus is on people to really do something interesting in an interpretive. That can't just use the fact that it has lyrics to make it "artistic"

j

Is it possible to add the word "freeskate" to the poll question at the top of the page? Currently it says, "Does vocal music belong in adult skating music programs or not?" and I think Lexi's question is for freeskating events only. I'm just trying to avoid confusion since "Restricted to certain events" could mean events like Interp, or it could mean certain freeskating events (Gold and below, etc.). Sorry, just being the double Virgo that I am.

If anyone thinks this will make it more confusing, then just ignore me.

Thanks!

I'm the contrarian, I voted yes :-/

There's a lot of music that would be lovely for a freeskate - for me personally, vocals can really improve my skating. Something about it just makes that little difference, helps me have better artistry. I feel like adults would (most anyway) have the sense not to use something inappropriate, but I also know I could be overly optimistic there?

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I'd like to see the use of lyrics as an available option. This way each skater can decide for them self and use lyrics if desired and don't if you prefer not to have lyrics. If I choose not to use lyrics, then having them available for use by other skaters will not make any difference to my skating.
As someone who has competed in fs and interp, they are two completely different events.

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They may be but round these parts they are not judged that differently - most of them are just freestyles with fewer jumps and vocals and the person with the hardest jumps still wins.

I think having vocals with freestyle will make people think a little more creatively with their artistic programs. One can hope anyway.

j