I passed my Gold moves 4 or 5 years ago, Intermediate too, but I wasn't near being a Gold level freestyle skater until this year Being a good MIF skater dosen't necessarily make you a good freestyle skater, and vice versa sometimes. I stink at moves, which is why I've been lazy and not practiced Novice much at all.....which will change this summer.

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"Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?"

Who? Rochelle's the only one I know of.

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"Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?"

I did not think it should be a basis of excluding skaters, but a basis of grouping them. Obviously the competitive level is based on your freestyle test, but I think your moves test (assuming you can still skate to that ability, and haven't reached an age where the tests don't really mean what the used to) is a better judge of the sub-level you skate at then your age. Because even if you have no double and can't sit on your sit spin, if you have junior moves- then one would assume your speed, flow, power, and the footwork you can execute is higher than someone with silver moves.

Once I test bronze it's unlikely I'll ever get to silver. I am not a jumper. But I really think if I can get over my fear of turning to the left there is nothing stopping me from having senior MITF in 30 years. I do not think moves tests should exclude.

ETA: Don't give me credit- it wasn't my idea

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-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

Skittl - that's a clever idea. It doesn't exclude, just organizes fairly. There have to be enough skaters to create multiple groups. Would you expect to have places for each of these groups, or would that be a runoff?

I'm very good at culling and analyzing data. If we can gather the entry forms / results (preferably electronic) for AN, I'll take a crack at creating a database that can answer some of the questions we've been asking.

Does the USFSA handle all adult competition registrations or are they handled by the LOC in some cases. I know they do for the sectionals and nationals, I meant the Adult Opens and adult entries in other open competitions.

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I think the idea of organizing by test is a good one. That would have been a very good thing this year in solo dance--with the combined levels, we had a huge range of abilities within each level (bronze, silver, gold).

For example, in my event (gold), you compete that level if you've passed 2 pre-golds, up through internationals. I know one competitor commented he was glad we're not doing Starlight next year because he passed that when it was still an international dance. Well, that rule change was about 6 years ago, meaning he was through his golds & working on internationals at least that long ago. Meanwhile, I just passed my 2nd pre-gold in August. Do you think we are even on the same planet with regards to skating ability??

It would make FAR more sense to group our event by tests passed rather than age. --especially those events where you don't have enough entries to do the class I, II, III split.

*I'd also like to add that I agree, this year's AN was really friendly and comfortable, for whatever reason, and I enjoyed it so much. If that was the result of lower numbers (and I still consider 400 starts pretty huge!), then I wish it would stay that way! I had so much more fun this year than in Chicago, which felt huge and cold & I felt incredibly insignificant.

AN registration is completely handled by USFS.

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I've got mad salchow disease!

Thanks!

We had anticipated 500-600 skaters, so from the LOC side, we were ready to accommodate more than 400. Besides, we had about the same number of starts as AN 08.

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I've got mad salchow disease!

As I said in my original post, I knew that the USFSA handles AN (Adult NATIONALS) as well as sectionals.

My question was: "what about the other competitions other than sectionals and nationals?"

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The host clubs that organize their respective competitions handle all entries, including adults.

If you don't believe me, do some research on the internet....I'm not speculating on this.

Well, it seems like you've already done the research, so why don't you just tell us?

Nevermind......

Sorry for even bringing it up...I just think it's funny that we're discussing whether or not people who have passed their Junior and Senior MIF are skating at a certain level.......if we were discussing Junior and Senior freestyle, I wonder if it would be a different story......

And as a practice, I wouldn't start listing names.....I did the research to find out if the basis to my initial argument was sound, not to start listing the names of the people who (or are working on) their Senior moves..

Of course it would be a different story. Freestyle determines the level they skate in, moves tests do not. An adult dancer may have high moves tests and not even have a loop.

If they passed Jr or Sr freestyle they would without a doubt be in those levels. (And then comes the issue of when they did that 30 years ago and can't do those elements anymore, and are essentially pushed out of competition).

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-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

As Stormy said, passing the MIF doesn't give you that level's FS skills. I'm Bronze level, and test-level at that, plus I've been dealing with an ankle problem for almost a year and have curtailed my jumping, and I'm working on Gold MIF. I will never be able to do an axel (b/c I'm not a jumper and I'm never going to try to learn it) so what you're telling me is that I shouldn't be allowed to compete. A Bronze program is 1:50 and there's only so many footwork and transition moves you can do when you're trying to fit in 4 jumps and 2 or 3 spins. And the fact is, under 6.0, it's the jumps that are most important, spins are secondary and connecting steps/footwork are kind of an afterthought. I could go out and do counters and rockers in Bronze (not that I can actually do those turns yet but just throwing that out there) and have a loop as my hardest jump and no camel spin and I'd probably finish last.

I've competed against Bronze skaters with rockers and brackets and split jumps in their footwork sequences. It has made me motivated to learn those elements myself. I think the current restrictions on jumps and spins as you move through the levels makes sense. If you want to do a flying camel that badly, move up to Silver. Really, it sounds like your main beef is not that elements aren't restricted, but that they're not restricted in a way that plays to your strengths. Well, unfortunately, the rules aren't determined by 1 person's needs; they're determined by what a large number of people decided was a logical progression between the levels.

Where were you 3 years ago when a group of us had a petition going to add Pre-Bronze to AN? I still think it's a good idea that would encourage more participation in AN and probably in local comps as well. As Flo pointed out, there are more barriers to making it to AN now than when AN first started, and if people are discouraged by having to pass 4 tests instead of 1 or 2, then having Pre-Bronze at AN could solve that problem.

The reason why it's never passed is b/c there has been a lot of opposition from adult skaters (mostly high level, from what I've seen) who think having Pre-Bronze skaters at AN would diminish the competition, horrify the judges about adult skating, take away the sense of accomplishment of getting to Bronze (funny, I never heard anyone say that having Bronze at AN lessened the accomplishment of getting to Silver.....), and possibly cause the downfall of adult skating and life on planet Earth (OK, I'm exaggerating about that last one, but based on some comments I read on this board at the time, you'd think that was going to happen).

To all the people out there opposed to Pre-Bronze at AN b/c the sight of Pre-Bronze skating is so horrifying, I say don't go watch.

The problem with that is there are only 2 Interp levels, so unless you're going to create a 3rd (or 4th) Interp level, you'd have too much of a range at the higher end. If you say, for example, that anyone who's passed Gold MIF must skate Masters Interp, then you could have a skater like me skating against Senior skaters who have been skating since they were 5. Gold MIF is nowhere near Senior MIF. And then you've got the FS skills issue discussed above. Are there axels allowed in Masters Interp? Flying camels? Even if not, lutzes, flips, and combo spins with multiple position changes and variations are nothing for Senior-level skaters, whereas in Adult Interp you usually see only sals and toes, maybe a loop, and spins tend to be simple.

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

Interp has it's own problems, but it's better than it use to be in that all levels were together! At least there's two now.

As far as jumps under 6.0, I'm not sure I agree that "they are the most important and edges an afterthought". I'm sure my medals in bronze and silver at AN were not for my jumps and spins, but for my edges (and I don't have any moves tests). Since I don't have any moves tests, I'd probaby be considered to be at my fs level.

If the numbers continued to fall, I would be for adding pre-bronze to the mix. I'd also limit the number of events to 3 and not 4. I think this would decrease the number of drops on event day.

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Recycle Love - Adopt a homeless pet

All interp, adult or masters, follow the same rules - no axels. Spins are not limited. I watched quite a few Masters interps and the technical difficulty was nowhere near what you'd see in a Masters freestyle event. Most skaters did one or two jumps and one, maybe two spins.

I think there ought to be some parity in interp in regards to dance tests and moves tests. I kind of think it's silly that I have to skate Masters Interp because I have passed a Silver dance, NOT because I passed Junior moves. You could theoretically have a skater who has passed Senior moves in Adult interp, if they were in Silver freestyle and had no dances. Considering interp is all about "using skating skills to develop a theme and interpret the music" (straight from the rulebook), moves test would be a critical element of that rule.

My instinct would be, if a skater has passed Intermediate moves, they would be in Masters interp. Intermediate FS in the qualifier for Masters FS. Thoughts? I think I will formally suggest this to the adult committee through the proper channels.

Actually, my exact quote was "under 6.0, it's the jumps that are most important, spins are secondary and connecting steps/footwork are kind of an afterthought."

Of course, edges are important - hey, when you land jumps, you need to be on an edge. But particularly in Bronze, where most skaters are adult-onset, my experience has been that jumps generally determine placement, with spins being secondary. Skating skills matter when placing skaters with the same jump content, so yes, they are important, but they really can't make up for not having the jumps of the top skaters in the group, unless those skaters have very weak skating skills. But in Bronze, there tends to not be too much variation, at least from what I've seen in the past 5 years or so. Perhaps it was different before the MIF requirements.

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

It's the crystals, captain! They can't take it - it's disrupting the time-space continuum!!.... Thanks for the laugh.

Thanks, that's what I thought, but I wasn't certain.

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My thoughts, exactly!

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I've got mad salchow disease!

Actually, I'm not saying that at all. I'm Bronze level working on my Gold moves as well. Are you saying that you don't think you can be competitive at Gold without an axel?


Geesh, that isn't what I'm saying at all. I was just using it as an example of elements that, for one reason or another, are not allowed at the Bronze level even though Novice or even higher level footwork is allowed.

Actually, I signed that petition......

Sorry, I thought of one other thing. Up to a couple years ago, flying spins were allowed at Bronze, but then the restriction happened. Does anyone know why flying spins were restricted? I can't seem to find anything about it under the forum search function

I believe she's saying she'll never skate gold, because the axel is a requirement to pass the gold FS test.

Without an axel, you can't pass the Gold test (at least not without an extremely lenient judging panel). And in Gold Ladies II, I would not be competitive w/o an axel. I would also not be competitive in Silver, b/c I don't have a flip, lutz, or camel spin (and obviously I couldn't even pass the test) - heck, I'm not even competitive in Bronze, which is why I've stopped competing. Since you've passed Silver MIF, by your own argument, you should be skating Silver FS - so why aren't you, especially since you seem so attached to the flying camel?

I'm not sure either, but I think it happened when they created specific WBP requirements for the adult levels, as part of the (eventual) implementation of IJS for Gold and Masters at AN. I think the Adult Committee was responding to complaints, comments, etc, that they'd heard over the years about the elements being performed at the various levels. I think people felt that flying spins were too advanced for Bronze and that if a skater has a flying spin, they should really be skating in Silver. Since Bronze is the 'beginner' level at AN, they didn't want to discourage newbies by having them compete against skaters that were so much more advanced.

Flying spins are also not allowed in No-Test on the standard track, and the jump elements in No-Test are the same as Bronze - through lutz, no axel. I guess TPTB in adult skating decided to match the jump and spin rules for the standard track.

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

Man, this was never personal. Actually I failed the Silver Freestyle because of "1 rotation short on both camel spins".

And I'm NOT ATTACHED to the flying camel.......I was just using it as an example of an element .......

Nevermind.......I'm done.........