Does anyone think that there should be some equivalent of these competitions for the adult skating world between adult skating countries or that the growth in the adult skating world will make it inevitable that it will evolve to that level of standing.

It's a nice thought, but no. For a number of reasons, probably the first one being...well, we're adults. Probably most adult skaters don't have the financial means or time to jet all over the world for competitions like that. I know I don't. We're not kids and we can't train like kids. A lot of questions come up...what levels would they have? All of them? You'd have to qualify for it, right? If it was just open to everyone, well, we already have competitions like that, and they're not Worlds. It really is a nice thought and it'd be cool if adult skating reached that level, but I don't ever see it.

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"Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?"

I do actually agree that it is most unlikely. The question is more of a thought provoking topic as opposed to a optimistic view of where adult skating might go in future and I am sure there are several trains of view on this, although like you said, it would be a nice though if it did reach that standing one day.

There was a big discussion about this on FSU. Personally, I don't think an Adult World Championships would mean anything. I don't think it would be truly representative of the best skaters in our sport, nor do I think it would be logistically feasible, given the differences in the adult skating programs around the world.

There are already plenty of international adult competitions; they are not championships because they do not limit their entries - if you reckon you can do it without making a complete tit of yourself, you are welcome!

Few countries have separate standards for adults (the USA being an honourable exception), and not all have an Adult Championship. And if you did have an international championship, who would go? Would it only be the very best, or would you allow anybody who had won their category? And the categories and standards are very different, too.

Frankly, I'd rather stay with what we have now - plenty of international competitions, but no limits as to who can enter!

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

If you realize most adult skaters usually only have time to do a few competitions each year you are limiting the pool of skaters tremendously. What I truly don't understand is the need to be a world champion when you are an adult skater, generally if you make it through you program and managed to build your skills you already are a champion.

As I stated on the FSU site, the ISU event is not a world championship, while standards are similiar they do not align and the ISU even allows the skaters to pick their level so that will NEVER be a championship event. I go to events all around the US and Europe to see my friends not to win a medal, ... my friends count for more than any medal.

Nuf said

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Who me? Couldn't be....
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no one said the ISU event was a championship, at least not on this thread and certainly not from me. Like I said, it is a topic purely for discussion and whether someone wants to be a world champion, even as an adult is entirely dependent on the aspirations of the individual. If I enter a competition, I go to win otherwise what is the point of competing. I get to see my friends anyway competition or not. However, I can appreciate that the US is considerably larger than the UK (252 times larger in fact ((random fact from high school goegraphy!!)) so I guess in that case, some folks only get to see friends occasionally due to the logistics involved. I guess this just highlights the differences between individuals and their goals/motivations

What is the point of competing if you don't win? To have a goal to train for. To prove to yourself you can go out there under pressure and do the best you can. To show off in front of an audience. To have comraderie with other skaters.

If the only point was winning, there would be no point since I rarely win.

j

I took what Smelltheice was saying to be what's the point of competing unless you're trying to win - not winning per se.

I read the thread on FSU and it's funny how angry everybody seems about this idea.

Okay she asked what people thought and people don't think it's a great idea. That's not anger

And my answer as to what is the point is the answer to the point of "trying to win" ALl the things I answer are the point of competing even if you are not trying to win.

j

Me too! If one gets a medal (except default medals, which are dull!) it's just the icing on the cake - it's the hanging out with friends and having fun that matters. And dressing up and so on to skate....

And, of course, if you compete in the European events you have friends from all over the world that you only see at these events - for me, a huge part of the joy of skating is the friends I've made! Even in the UK I don't often see those skating friends who don't skate at my rink other than at competitions.

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

I suppose it is each to their own but if I want to go and see friends, then thats what I do. If I enter a competition then yes I go to win if thats the way it goes and if not then I will endeavor to work out why, correct any faults and do better next time but when I compete in anything, the competition comes first as my friends are there anyway and while I don't take them for granted, I still see them, competition even or not.

If you aren't competing to win its not a competition, it is a social which I see as being the balancing counterpart to the competitive side of the whole event but when competing, it is to win or at least do well or my best should I not be on form at times. If I win then I want to know it is because I performed better than those I compete against and not because they have just gone for a day out to see friends and do some skating (or whatever sport they may be doing) while they are there. I have competed horses for many years and I go to shows to come home with a prize and while yes I do enjoy it, I don't go just for the hell of it!!! What is the point of that!

The point is to go out and try your best and hopefully have fun doing it!! There are a lot of skater who skate for the joy of it, and they enter competitions knowing they won't win. At Easterns last year I knew for 100% sure I wouldn't win, should I have withdrawn and stayed home? I didn't because I still wanted to skate and also see my friends and have a great time. Which I did.

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"Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?"

Me too! I had a BLAST at Adults Nationals, seeing all these people that I've always wanted to meet but couldn't b/c I didn't pass those tests needed to participate, never mind money factors... (which is why I'm GLAD there IS no "Adult Worlds" now, thinking about it. Well, at least my WALLET is a lot happier!!! )

smelltheice: you can get from that that there is no "Adult Worlds." Trust me, I asked that same question a few years back. Same reaction! No such thing and let's KEEP IT THAT WAY!!!

That said, I do aim to be a better skater than the previous year... and with that, the placement for me is relevant. "Aiming to win" in itself is NOT a crime, since we're all striving to become better skaters. It's when it's the ONLY thing and you don't take ANY value in the overall experience other than to win a medal -- THAT is when one needs to reassess their goals to figure out whether or not it's realistic, as well as why they are skating, testing, competing, etc...

In my personal case, if I was looking just to win, I probably should NOT have either bothered moving up to Bronze and say at Pre-Bronze. My only reason for moving up to Bronze despite my crappy (still somewhat at Pre-Bronze level) skating is b/c I wanted to finally MEET my friends here on this board and other skating boards, to finally have that experience of being part of Adults National, to see how I fare right now with the rest of the people in my group and figure out realistic goals to set to become a better skater for next year!!!

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Ok. this is being taken waaaay out of context here. I never said that winning is the be all and end all of life. If I didn't enjoy what I was doing, I would do something else but all I am saying is I would do it for fun and not bother paying the money to enter a competition if I am not trying to win. I would just skate with my friends at my rink or any other rink for fun if it was just that. Entering a competition and just going for fun is like buying a race car just so you can look at it. I honestly don't see the point. I do understand that yes, it should be enjoyed and that one should have fun with their friends AND I DO OR I WOULDN'T SKATE but that doesn't mean one shouldn't be out to win too. I would enter something with the knowledge that I might not win or even get placed but it would serve a purpose in addition to having fun, perhaps to solve a problem I have with a certain element or to gain confidence after a fall etc but I will still try my best to win.

and to clarify....I have never said that there was an adult worlds or europeans etc. I never said that there should be or would be so do not misquote me!!! and judging by the reaction of most people on this thread, it is a good thing that there is no such event because it would be a disaster I think.

I'm sorry if this sounds a bit angry but I am just trying to clarify that I am not the type of person for whom winning is everything above all else but I always try my hardest to win even if I don't have a chance. I guess it is just the eternal optimist in me and a die hard, don't give in attitude towards life!!!!

well, I guess that leaves me out

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Champagne in 2005, 2008, 2009 - who's next out of the pre-bronze club...?

Wang chung!

I don't know about 4 Continents as there aren't that many adult skaters in asia.

Adult Worlds, that's a posibility. All the ISU would have to do is rename the ISU Adult Invitational as ISU Adult Worlds. But if this were to happen, all skaters competing at the "ISU Adult Worlds" should have to have made the top 3 in their age and skating level at their own county's adult nationals. Also if this were happening those who qualify should be getting their trip to ISU Adult Worlds paid for by their ISU member country association. Being that not all of the countries that have been represented have an adult nationals, it won't be happening any time soon. Although it would be cool if it could happen.

Adult European's, well there are enough european competitions already. Also, if there isn't an Adult North American competition where there are lots of adult skaters, why should there be Adult European's.

My suguestion would be to go with a points system for all those adult competitions around the world with the top 24 point getters in their age level, event level and event getting to compete at Adult Worlds for free. But this would only work if everyone would be marked with the ISI COP or better the Canadian CPC for StarSkaters and Adult StarSkaters.

Somehow though there'd have to be a list of competitions that would count for points. This would mean that the ISU and all ISU member countries would have to vote on which competitons would be on the list.

Nice dream but for this to work, we'd have to get major sponsors to jump on board.

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"It's not age that determines but the heart." "Skating is not just a sport for the young but it's a passion for the soul of the young at heart." Brigitte Laskowski

I am a nomadic adult skater who is a member of Windsor FSC (Skate Windsor) WOS SC again since Sept. 1st, 2008.

http://eastcastlemusic.tripod.com

Singerskates Sports Music Editing

I have to admit that I like the rationality of your response. There are plenty of fact and figures to back up your argument. We are both thinking on the same page it seems. Good form!

Who's going to pay for this? The federations? Why would they want to?

Three possibilities:

Limit the championship to the highest levels of adult skating, so that federations could vie for boasting the best adult skaters in the world. In which case most of the competitors will be former (or current) elite skaters who are old enough to qualify as adults.

Get federations to pay for anyone who qualifies as among the top 24 point getters in the world at their age level, event level, and discipline, down to a pretty low skill level (gold? silver? bronze? pre-bronze?). Why would a federation want to pay overseas travel expenses for a skater to compete to be adult silver age group IV champion of the world? There aren't world championships for kids at the novice or lower levels, why should there be for adults at comparable or lower levels?

And how do you determine who the top 24 point getters are? From domestic events? If there's any prestige in having skaters qualify for this, wouldn't each federation inflate their marks domestically to achieve that? At various international adult competitions around the world? That will require more international travel, probably at the skaters' own expense.

Have participants pay their own expenses, whether for the championship or for international qualifying events? Then it becomes not a competition for the best of the best among adult skaters at each level, but a competition for the best among adult skaters who are able to afford the money and the time away from job and family responsibilities to travel to two or more out-of-town (and in some cases out-of-continent) competitions a year.

The whole concept of an adult championship just raises too many theoretical and practical problems. I don't see what purpose it would serve that would outweigh them.

A well thought out and rational arguement. It is true that such an event would cause many headaches and likely not get the backing that would be required. It is something that will most likely remain a concept where the practicalities are not feasible. (Whoa. that sounded very political. perhaps I missed my calling in life but I am too bad a liar to be in politics!!!!)

Another way is to just send the top three placements in each category from Adult Bronze through Adult Masters to Adult Competitive (Novice to Senior) of the ISU member countries that wish to participate chosen from either a country's adult nationals or to chose 24 skaters who have the highest placement results from at least 3 competitions that are not adult nations but on the ISU list.

Remember, unless the ISU comes up with a plan like this themselves, this is just a dream.

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"It's not age that determines but the heart." "Skating is not just a sport for the young but it's a passion for the soul of the young at heart." Brigitte Laskowski

I am a nomadic adult skater who is a member of Windsor FSC (Skate Windsor) WOS SC again since Sept. 1st, 2008.

http://eastcastlemusic.tripod.com

Singerskates Sports Music Editing

Okay, to be clear... when I was referring to the "someone who thinks of winning above all else..." I was NOT implying YOU!!! Got it? Good!!!

That said there ARE a few of those skaters out there who think that way. I avoid them like the plague b/c I figured that their minds are already made up and anything else I say I'm going to irritate them!!! So my stance now for those skaters.... and

What I am saying though is that the last time I mentioned something about an "Adults Worlds" it got totally blow out of proportion, that's all! LOL!!!

I also agree with Mrs. Redboots that the current method of getting people together for O'dorf stays an invitational!!! Not that I will ever make it to those other countries (unless I win the lottery, then I would be so there!!!) but I would like the option of going there if I choose to and can afford it!!!

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Smelltheice, I don't know if you've seen the discussion on FS Universe regarding the plausibility of an actual Adult Worlds, but IIRC, there seemed to be two major roadblocks:
(1) how to fund it (including making sure the best skaters from each country can actually pay for the trip) and
(2) how to create a level playing field in the absence of international adult testing standards.

Currently, international standard track competitions are divided only by age, which is why the difference in different countries' testing standards doesn't create a problem. If you are 16 years old and are a U.S. Ladies' Senior Nationals medalist, you can compete at either Senior Worlds or Junior Worlds and nobody will cry foul. But in adult skating, dividing only by age would make no sense, since you'd end up with Bronze skaters skating against Masters Senior skaters. Since there are no standardized adult tests across the various ISU member countries, international skaters are currently just signing up for whichever event sounds right to them.
So it's not that there *can't* be an Adult Worlds, it's just that the results wouldn't be *meaningful* unless international adult testing standards are used to divide skaters into the appropriate categories. And, IMHO, until the funding exists to help the top skaters from each country actually attend, it wouldn't be a very meaningful adult worlds, either.
Of course I do share your hope that these issues can be overcome and it will happen someday. . . Not holding my breath, though, LOL!

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Perhaps I jumped on the defensive a bit too soon. Sometimes I find it hard to judge the intent of written text without the benefit of hearing it spoken so I didn't mean to offend. Good call

Smelltheice, how is it you get to judge us when we don't agree with you? We don't understand your point-of-view and you obviously don't understand, mine. I don't see your age listed and maybe that is the difference, I am older, I have only skated on the adult circuit for 6 years going to sectionals and nationals, I participate in all parts of skating as a board member and test chair of my club. So I see pretty much all there is of the sport.

Once again, where do you think people are going to get the time to do this? Where is the money going to come from to pay for this? NO one will pay to watch adults do double jumps except other adults who appreciate the time and extraordinary effort we expend upon the sport.

I think you inadvertently trivialize those of us who don't go out to win...I go out to skate, and to do my best, to only do something to win, is to take some of the joy out of skating. With regards to my friends...who skate they are from all over the US, UK and Europe. My friends here in CO don't really compete because they don't like the attitudes of people who "have to win" they don't like the pressure and they choose not to, so if I want to see my friends from either coast I go to a competition.

I cannot skate with the "mentality" you talk about --I will never be able to do that again because of my hip surgeries. If I had your view point then I should quit, and sorry....I won't do that, I still enjoy the sport and that is what is most important and my friends seem to be just fine skating for the sake of the sport. If we occasionally do well...it's just icing on an already very nice cake.

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Who me? Couldn't be....
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