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Hi, everyone. I need a new pair of cross-training shoes. I'm looking at Nike, Adidas, or Nu Balance. I don't know which is better or which other brands are out there... I would really like everyone's opinions on which they think are the best shoes, and why!

Honestly, I'm really not trying to make fun of you. But if I asked the above question, wouldn't you just tell me to go try on different pairs of shoes and find out for myself what fits my feet best? I know it's not so easy with skate boots, because we can't try skating in them before we buy them, and because they cost SO much nobody wants to make a very expensive mistake. I just think that you'll get a lot of conflicting opinions as people try to answer your question, and you may end up even more confused than before. All of the major boot companies put out a decent product, but some will work better than others for a particular skater because of their particular foot type, skating style, etc. In the end, you're just going to have to try on different pairs of boots, pick one, and skate in it. If it fits well, you're going to do fine, and no matter how well recommended that brand might be, it's still not going to be some kind of magic pixie dust that automatically turns you into a fantastic skater.

As far as specifics, my daughter and I have skated in SPTeri's for years. They fit us well, and did the job just fine. They are very heavy and stiff boots, however, and we found the break-in period difficult and painful. After enduring two weeks of misery, though, we were good to go. Both of us just switched to Jacksons because they are lighter and much more comfortable. I used to be the Bunga pad queen, but no longer need most of the padding I used in my SPTeri's. Will they break down faster? We don't know. Guess we'll find out. We hated Riedell's - they don't fit our feet right. We've not tried the brands you named, though quite a few skaters at our rink use the Grafs. Does our experience make any difference to you? Probably not.

Good luck in your search!

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Actually, that looks like a list of every skater that has tried Grafs, not the skaters that currently use them. From what I have read, a lot of elite skaters tried Grafs about 5 years ago or so, but many are no longer in them, for a variety of reasons. There was a thread here last week or so that talked about Grafs - I think it was one of the threads Casey S started about his problems with Graf boots - that you might want to check out. Apparently, they break down quickly. Why don't you ask other skaters at your rink that are at your skating level and see what boots they use - also ask if they have narrow or wide feet, or if there is a big difference (like a width or more) in their heel vs. the ball area. Make sure the fitter measures your feet in both places so you'll know how your feet are shaped - certain boots will fit better than others depending on this.

If you like your Risports and they have fit well, then you might want to get the next level up in that brand. As they say, if it ain't broke....

I think the major advantage with Grafs is that you can just about put on a new pair and skate in them right away. The downside is that they are not supposed to last as long. If you are an elite skater it is probably important not to lose training time breaking in new boots, but not all of us have the kind of financial backing that lets us buy new boots every few months.

John

I have also heard that some boot companies will send new boots to elite skaters to try for free -- this is a good way to get them to endorse the boots if they happen to like them. Also a good way for the company to claim that these skaters use their boots.

From what I've heard, also, these skaters usually end up going back to whatever boot they liked before.

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Is Portland the only city with it's own ice-dance website? http://www.pdxicedance.net/

Similarly to the sticky sharpening thread...

This question gets asked with such frequency (at least once a month lately it seems...) is there any way we can sticky some general information about the boot manufacturers and their differences?

(Not trying to pick on you sarahyani, I promise! It's just that this is asked all the time!)

To answer your question of what are the best boots I would have to answer that whatever suits you!

I would say that, for me, Harlicks are the best boots with Wifa in second but trailing somewhat!

Out of your list I would choose Wifas but depending on what you're going to use them for I would say that, from my experience, the Super Goldstar are a better fitting boot, the Diamonds killed my ankle bones.

I, personally, hate loathe and detest Risports for a variety of reasons, one of them being that they killed my feet. They may suit you though.

DON'T go on what elite skaters wear. Stephen Cousins used to wear Wifa Diamonds, what they DIDN'T tell you was that they weren't the off the shelf versions but were customised to his specification.

Try as many brands on as you can, walk around the store in them, any rubs or ouchies at that stage will only be magnified when you actually come to wear them. You can get boots punched out but I don't like doing that. Since discovering Harlicks I've never had to have my boots punched out, wear bubble wrap or gel pads!

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The best whisper is a click

Oh wow. Of that list, I would say maybe two people still use Grafs. Graf sent free boots to EVERY National/World-bound skater a couple of years back, so everyone tried them. Most everyone has switched out by now because they didn't like them (or for some other reason, point is most skaters don't wear Grafs).

I think the question by the original poster is impossible to respond. There's no right answer. The BEST boots are the boots that fit you best and give your particular body and skating the right amount of support. The only way you can know that is try different brands on, and get advice from your coaches and pro shop. The only notable thing I will say is that you listed two very low level boots, and then a high level boot. The Risport and WIFA's are pretty beginner shoes, and the Graf Edmonton Specials are their most advanced. That's like saying "I'm looking to buy a dress from Sears, Target, and Chanel....which one should I get?" The Grafs don't fit in with the rest of those boot listings.

Personally I always recommend the Riedell star series for beginners. Silver and Gold stars are pretty much beginner staples, and take you through your single jumps. I don't like the less known brands, and the more known brands (Harlick, Klingbeil, SP Teris) are better with higher level boots than beginner boots. The main thing though, is go try boots on. And go with a coach, not just a parent.

Actually, both Risport and Wifa make boots at all levels - Wifa also claim that some elite skaters use them, but I can't remember who they said...... The joy of them is that they come in lots of different colours & fabrics without having to be custom-made; the downside is that they are alleged to be one of the hardest boots to break in!

Stardust skies - I think you'll find Risport, Wifa and Belati are mostly sold on this side of the Atlantic, and Riedell etc on your side! Obviously skaters here do use SP Teri and Harlick & so on, but they have to be imported and can be very expensive. At least a couple of skaters I know who have custom skates have them from Schindler in Switzerland.....

I started out in basic Belatis, which were too big for me; they collapsed after about 2 years, and since then I've been in mid-range Gams, which suit me down to the ground. But some skaters can't be doing with them at all - it just so depends on the shape of your feet, your weight, all sorts of factors, and there's really no substitute for an independent expert fitter!

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

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Actually, Silver and Gold Stars are pretty advanced boots. They're really for skaters doing doubles, unless the skater is on the heavy side and/or breaks down boots quickly. A lot of times adults go into boots that might be too advanced for a child at their same level b/c of the stiffness and durability that higher-level boots have, so it's possible an adult could have those boots for single jumps. Obviously an adult who is 6 feet tall needs more support than a child who is 4 feet tall even if they are doing the same jumps.

Generally, Bronze Stars are the recommended boot for single jumps in the Riedell brand.

As for what's high-level in Risport and Wifa, I have no idea b/c I am not familiar with those brands. But why don't you go to their websites and read their info? That should give you an idea of the boot levels in each brand, even if your pro shop doesn't carry them. I'm sure you could import them as you can with Grafs or Klingbeils.

The challenge with Klingbeils is to make sure you have a good fitter measure you according to what Klingbeil needs, since the boots will be customs. And make sure your pro shop can handle maintenance, like punch-outs and such.

Why does this remind me of the Paramount company who makes claims of top-level skaters using their blades just because they sent them a free one? Just because they sent off a free pair doesn't mean they're actually being used!

And for the record, I strongly recommend against Graf - they're comfortable enough, but not especially so, and have a high occurance of falling apart (my 6 month old boots here: http://kc.sk8rland.com/pictures/?s=I...f+Boot+Problem ). My next boots will almost certainly be custom Klingbeils.

I was told by several people when I got my Grafs that there was "no break in period". Well that's balogne. They did hurt for the first week or so - not too bad, but they weren't terribly pleasant either. One day I tried my old crappy skates back on, and they were more comfortable in comparison. The padding in the Grafs also seems to compress over time so the boots stop fitting as well the more you skate on them - I was much happier with the lack of padding in my previous skates - it hurt more to break them in, but it was worth it.

You might have better luck, but I'll never buy Graf again. Too much money for too little boot.

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

Well it's already been said that most of these skaters do not actually wear Graf (I've downloaded videos of several of them and can tell you quite certainly that none of the ones I've seen are wearing Graf in competition), but Oksana definitely wears Klingbeil - here she is with her new Klingbeil boots, with Mr. Klingbeil himself :
http://kc.sk8rland.com/pictures/inde...klingbeil.jpeg

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

Just FYI.....
One week of moderate uncomfortableness as a break-in for boots is NOTHING compared to many brands. Klingbeils also have a reputation of being easy to break in (I had very good luck w/ my 2 pairs), but other brands make take weeks and weeks to start to soften & feel like more than concrete blocks on your feet. If your feet aren't bleeding, you're having a VERY good break-in period with your new boots!!! The one pair of Reidells I ever owned, the first time I wore them I lasted 15 minutes before the pain became too much. And I still have the scars from those boots.

ALso, fyi, all boots do that. The older they get, the more often you'll have to relace to tighten them up. Don't expect anything different from your Klingbeils.

With all due respect I will have to disagree with you on a couple of points based on my own experiences with Riedells and now Harlicks.

First thing: Silver Stars and Gold Stars are EXTREMELY stiff when you first break in. I tried the Silver Star on when I was shopping for my second pair of skates and it was like wearing a block of CEMENT!!! I could not bend my ankle to save my life!!! MAN! I'm glad I went with a Bronze Star (which was still extremely stiff for me, but only for a month...)

Here is Riedell's boot chart. I consider high level skaters as anyone USFSA Juv level FS or higher. The chart definitely tells me that Gold and Silver Stars are for higher level skaters!!!
I went with custom Harlicks b/c I had foot and lower back problems where orthotics are required. Since both SP Teri and the Harlick shop were both in my neck of the woods, it was a matter of picking one of them and getting the boot that I want. Now, initially I thought "Geez, I am not worthy of custom skates. They're expensive and are usually for high levels." Nope! My secondary coach was the person who originally told me that I need custom boots to prevent future injuries. It was a pragmatic decision that I'm glad I took! (i.e. would I rather spend money on properly fitted skating boots or on my visits to the ER to get a handle of injuries caused by boots that don't fit me well... and lose skating time to recover from the injuries and more money for the coaches to get me back to where I was before the injury happened.) The purple leather was the only "bling" expense. (HEY! I DO know when to have fun... )

And if you read my lesson thread entry... you'll see I'm about Pre-Bronze/Bronze level... far from being a high level skater. I will concede though that Riedells are really good for those below ISI FS 2. They served me pretty well. (I had the old Gold Medallion and then to Bronze Star...)

I will agree with that!!! You REALLY need to try on the boot to see which is best! And I didn't go with a coach on all my visits, but I had specific guidance on what I need to be aware of... It's like the athletic shoes scenario... some like New Balance, others (like me) don't! I'm a Nike gal, but some people think that Nikes don't give them enough arch support. It really depends!!!

sarahyani: What skills are you working on now? All those boots that you mentioned about are for very high level skaters and I want to make sure that you can handle that type of stiffness in the boots before you go shell out money to buy them. You do NOT want skating injuries from boots that are too stiff, trust me on this!!!

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

I LOVE my Grafs and would recommend them to anyone. This is my third pair. My first pair lasted less than a year, but not because of the boot but because my feet changed size (they shrunk)

My 3rd pair are now going on 2 years. I skate about 4 times a week BTW

May I ask your height/weight and also what you're doing on them? I'm 5'11" and 150lbs, and I do a bunch of jumps on them, but only singles through the flip. I bet Graf works better for lighter folks or those doing dance - my fitter is an extremely good ice dancer who also loves them, so much that he says they're the reason he's still skating.

They just don't work for me, and quite a number of people have had problems with the heels coming off, including another guy at my rink, and my fitter!

sarahyani is of similar height and weight to me, and is currently working on single jumps working back up to doubles which she used to do when she skated before. Maybe I just got one of many defective models shipped out by Graf, but I worry they won't be enough boot to last her very long, despite their claim to be fit for elite skaters.

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

I know of a high level (Junior) gal who also has the same problem. After about six months, her heels were also coming apart from the rest of the boot too! Of course, at the time I was thinking b/c the rest of her boots were so beat up that "Oh, she must really put herself through the paces so much that her boots are falling apart..."

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Risports are generally thought of as pretty low level, even their higher level skates. Amongst other things I found that even their high end boot collapsed in a heap VERY quickly. It's a shame as I started out in beginner Risports and they were very good (they are the only Risports that I ever got on with and that fitted), I've still got them on my roller skate dance plates.

Wifas aren't low level though. A lot of ice dancers use Wifa, most of Jimmy Youngs' skaters wore Wifas. Charlotte and Gary wore Wifa when they won the British, a lot of the British Champions and Solo Dance Champions have worn Wifa. Our competitive kids (my coaches skaters ... both coaches) all wore Wifa. Now who were those other skaters who wore them, you know, those good Ice Dancers .... you know, the ones who won the Olympic Gold Our very own T&D wore them too!

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The best whisper is a click

I think that is the mistake I made- to assume the person was from the U.S. Here, the ONLY Risports and Wifas I have ever seen are low-level boots. I assumed (wrongly) that it was all they made. But clearly I have now realized they have whole ranges of boots elsewhere, and that the U.S. shops I visited just happened to make their beginner boots and not anything else. I apologize for the misconception!!

Jazzpants- I wonder if maybe the Riedell boots have changed a lot in the way they are being made? I wore the Silver Stars about 10 years ago or so. They lasted me a couple of years, and were very painful to break in, but eventually they were fine. I was about 10 years old then, and I wasn't what you would call heavy. I don't know- it's what I was put in, and I had great experiences with them, and everyone of my friends had them too, and no one ever had an apparent problem with them. I know Riedell changed a LOT of stuff about their company- perhaps they build their boots much stiffer now. Or perhaps I just had ankles of steel?
Also, I didn't mean Harlicks et al were bad choices for lower level skaters, just that their higher level boots (including customs) are really what they excel at. I agree that custom boots are a good thing to get at ANY age if you can afford it, because a good fit is so so so important. But even if you're not doing high level jumps on them, I guess I still consider custom boots of any kind as high level boots. And I think that's what the Harlicks of this world excelt at, while certain other brands really concentrate on their shelf models.

I think the main message to retain is to go try boots on at your shop. If all the brands they have are the three you mentioned, try all three, and pick the one you think is best. If you can afford to send away for a pair, then either get customs, or get fitted properly by a fitter, and make sure you can send the boot back if the size is wrong.

I echo the person who said that we need to know a little more about exactly what level you are at to help any further, though.

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No worries, I did the same thing when I first joined this board. I actually find it very interesting to read the different opinions and perspectives, it's by doing that for the last few months both here and other places that I ended up deciding on my next boot.

Of the US brands, Harlick and SP Teri are also very good, as well as the higher-end Riedells. Of them, I've heard of more pain issues with Riedell and SP Teri than Harlick or Klingbeil, but all are fine boots and all have happy owners. I found this thread especially interesting because it brought light to some of the brands we don't hear of over hear in the US very often.

Good luck with your new Risports - I hope they treat you well and last a looooong time!

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

Well I'm 5'2" and am overweight. I am working on double jumps

My brother, a senior men's skater was working on triples and quads with his. His boots usually only lasted a season.