Okay guys - I just don't get the camel spin. If anyone has any tips, advice, magic pills I'd be so, so appreciative.

I've not improved at all since first learning the camel spin. I've listened to my coach but my body refuses to do what he says. I can't straighten the skating leg to save my life after the 3 turn. My back is too arched and I end up in some weird arabesque spin. If I try to keep my head down and if I force myself to straighten the leg as much as possible I'm up on my toe pick.

I'm not expecting miracles, but I'd like to have SOME improvement on it. I was sure that not being able to straighten the leg has something to do with my weight but I can get into the position and balance just fine at home off the ice. I can hold thaat position for days off the ice. I almost feel like I'm not completely over my left side, my chest isn't down, my knee isn't straight and it's just an atrocious spin - when I can actually spin.

I dunno man - I don't expect to have a gorgeous camel spin overnight, but the fact that my body seems physically incapable of doing it frightens me. I just don't think I understand the spins mechanics at all.

Help!!!

I feel your pain! I've been working on camel spins for about 10 years. It took me about 8 yrs. to feel somewhat comfortable doing it. Try experimenting with different arm positions. Some coaches in the past told me to do it with both arms back with the shoulders squared, which never worked well for me because then my rt. hip would be turning downwards. Another coach told me to try it with my rt. shoulder turned around and left arm either in the front or towards the front curving down toward the left knee, and that seems to make my camel faster and more stable.

You need to use the "sweep the table" method with the leading arm in the spin. It is this arm more than anything that creates the spin, the free leg stays back, the arm does the work. That arm must come all the way around, no dropping, no nothing.

Yep, it's my most hated spin, too. I just learned the flying camel and it's already better than my regular camel!

But here's what makes it work for me: First of all, I find that it's easier for me to do it from a very round right forward inside 3-turn instead of from back crossovers. Also, I find that it give me a longer, rounder entrance edge when I plant the left foot on the ice and bend deeply, then push myself onto the entrance edge (instead of trying to push off so quickly that my weight isn't in the right place).

Like someone else mentioned, you also need to keep the leading shoulder high and level as it leads you into the spin. Finally, your chin should always be up; your face is never facing down. It's just your belly and rib cage that need to face down to the ice, so there is an upper torso arch involved.

Maybe post a video? (if you dare) so that we can see how to fix the problem?

There are so many different ways to miss the hook for this spin.

I love the "sweep the table method" works really well and like double toe said a nice round entry w/ a softly bent knee so you get a little snap and around it goes. Mine took about 4 years to get comfortably, and the first one each day is blindingly painful, I have a lazy left hip flexor, I have to wake it up but after that, it's fine. A lot of practice and my coach makes me do it from a stand still almost, a single crossover into a large circle and stepping in with both hands either behind my back or holding a thera band behind my back.

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Thanks so much for the words, but if anyone has any more advice keep it coming!

I definitely do the sweep the table - my problem is not the spinning I don't think, but more the correct body position. I have felt the right position in the past for a fleeting moment but I can't seem to remember what on earth it was.

The thing about the upper back arch is interesting though - I think I've been using a lower back arch, causing my upper torso to get too high up.

I'll try to bring my video camera the next time I go so you can see my disaster - I know its almost impossible to coach online but I really really appreciate any advice.

I'd love to have a nice camel - I know it'll take time and all, but I'd hate for this spin to hold me back

What about you hip position? Is your free hip open or closed, because that might make a difference with the feeling of being over your skating leg.

The hip is my main problem with this spin - you need to start with the hip open and foot turned out, and keep it that way!

Hmm....I think I might have a problem with the hip too - I tend to not open my hips because of dance training...it took a while for this to sink in with the spiral so maybe that's another problem I need to look into.

sunshinepointe, you wrote that if you straighten your skating leg completely you end up on your toepick. Is that because, with your dance background, that when you straighten your leg you automatically try to point your toe?

To counteract then, instead of thinking "straighten your leg" think of pushing your kneecap back and pushing your skating FOOT slightly forward. That should keep the weight on the ball/middle of your foot rather than on your toe.

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Okay, I think you guys are getting me on track mentally.

I'm in my office with a friend of mine who skates too and we're looking at your notes, and videos of camel spins and I realized something.

I'm totally not open in the hip at all. The closed hip is resulting in a totally unattractive position and it's also keeping me from getting my skating leg straight somehow. It's also whats throwing me off balance.

So I tried to emulate what the girl in the video was doing off ice and I was SOLID in the off ice position. I'm antsy to get to the rink tomorrow to see if having a mental understanding of the spin will help me somewhat. My coach would always tell me to arch my back until it hurts - with the closed hip and my flexible back I just end up in an arabesque type spin with a lifted chest, but with the open hip I feel the arch pain he was talking about.

I'll update tomorrow and tell you how it goes!!!

Very simple exercise:

Assuming that you spin counterclockwise, practice your LFO spiral. The spiral is essesntially the position you're supposed to be in in the camel spin. Practice pushing off into a LFO spiral, and get into the perfect arabesque position -- back and head up, arms outstretched, leg straight with turned out foot -- but stay on a BENT knee. Don't rise up yet! Hold this position as you are gliding, then after several seconds straighten the knee.

In other words, bent knee or straight knee, you need to be strong enough to get the rest of your body in the right position. So practice that position. You can actually spin on a bent knee as well to start learning the camel spin, and when you do straighten it your speed will increase due to the increase in tension.

I have a wonderful LFO spiral, but I'll definitely do the bent to straight leg thing as practice - that's an awesome tip!

The way my coach began teaching it to me was "sweep the table, then lay down on it". This got my upper body position leaned forward low enough.

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That's a much less graphic description than the one I was taught -- sweep the table then upper body female attributes on the table

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This is such a difficult spin. It's taken me a long time to master but it's finally getting more and more consistent. I found it hard to lower my upper body enough which meant my leg wasn't parallel to the ice, and even though that was improving before my last competition, I held back for fear of going over the toe so I still managed a lousy one. However I've really felt the difference now. The body going lower really does help keep the spin going and I've done some that had that "Wow" feel about them. On the few occasions that I've done really good ones they've felt so easy, but that's skating I guess. Oddly enough I'm now working on my change-foot camel and for some reason because I'm not thinking so much about the forward camel, it seems to be mega-consistent at the moment. Long may it stay!

Nicki

Trying NOT to spit out my Tejava tea on my office keyboard...


I don't have any suggestions on the camel spin. I've been working on this #$@$&@* spin for like, FOREVER!!! Someday in this life time, I guess. (Should have asked Chelsea Piers coach to go over this spin, actually...but was more worried about the loop jump.)

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Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

I did this same exercise while learning (and I'm still learning....) the camel. Remember to keep your head up, both in the spiral and in the camel entrance.
Easier said than done when learning, at least for me.

The other thing I notice in a camel...well, actually, there are several things I notice about mine. The better ones, the ones with more speed, occur when the entry has more L knee bend, hook, then push up with knee ONLY, not upper body.

There is a certain "tension" which makes me thing of an "L" shaped ruler--- on the L side, running down the L arm and side of the body. This probably makes no sense , but I do feel this in the better camels. It's this tension which keeps me over the spinning foot, along with a strong arch which I feel from head to toe, AND kind of a diagonal pull from L shoulder to R hip/leg.

Now that I sound like a complete moron (though I can do a camel now...though upper body is still too high some of the time), I'll leave this topic alone!

e-skater, what you're saying makes sense - I can feel this tension when I practice off the ice. When I showed my friend at the office my "new" position she said it looked SO much nicer, elegant even. Now if it'll translate to the ice

By the way, once you succeed in getting your ribcage facing down toward the ice, you may start developing the habit a lot of us fall into: the camel dive! LOL! That's what I call it when you forget to keep your left shoulder high as you push off into the spin. If you drop the left shoulder on the entrance edge, no camel spin for you.

LOL!!! Yes, I have a VERY good "duck in" to the camel sometimes! I probably could win a "best duck" contest....

ooooooooooooooh...the camel spin...well whgat my coach tells me is to swing my arms A LOT....like realyl swing your left arm (if you skate CCW) and kind of follow it through...make it hit your free leg...and keep your skating leg pretty straight...and go onto your toe pick more than you do for your other spins! hope that helps!

Hello, my name is vesperholly, and I am a camel diver.

I try to think of reaching my left arm towards my right foot. I also practice the camel position at the boards in between each spin.

Recently I've started doing more pilates and off-ice bum-strengthening exerciese. They seem to be helping. I do, among other things, donkey kicks, supermans, and side leg lifts.

Here's a video of a very good camel-layback I managed to catch.

Trust me, they do NOT look like that all the time! I wish!!!