Can ya'll give me the different 'names' for different types of sharpening (like "freestyle", "combination", etc.) and the actual Radius of Hollow that corresponds to each?

It seems like different names mean different things to different people and I would like to get a "range" of RoH for the different names.

Thanks!

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Dianne
(A.O.S.S.? Got it BAD! )

I can't speak for every type of sharpening, but the guy who sharpens my skates offers two choices: freestyle and low freestyle. The difference is that the regular freestyle sharpening is a little deeper. Beginner skaters (those working on mainly single jumps or basic skills) tend to get the low freestyle sharpening. Sorry, but I'm not too certain about the ROH for each though.

A sharpener at an Ohio rink gives 1/2" as a standard sharpening, and calls a slightly deeper 7/16" radius a "Duke special".

...well, you asked!

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Bill Schneider

Same here ..... 1/2 inch is a standard freeskate sharpening, 7/16 inch is a sharper freeskate and 3/8 inch is a dance sharpening or a really sharp freeskate (if your sharpener will do it).

I use a 7/16 for most of my skaters, and 3/8 if they skid their jumps. I find a 1/2 radius just doesn't cut it for doubles and triples. The harder the ice (hockey ice) the sharper the blade, and sometimes if the ice is actually figure skating temperature, the 1/2 inch might do.

I would stick with the numbers and go with the guidelines from Virtualsk8r.

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Sharpeners in NY/NJ that I've used in the past use these equivalents:

Recreational = 5/8"
Competitive = 1/2"
"Deep ROH" = 3/8"

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Wow! must be the difference (hoagie vs. sub; soda vs. pop) thing...

1/2" here is recreational (or hockey <g>)
3/8" is dance
7/16" is 'AGGRESSIVE'

freestyle is whatever you tell them (even if it's 1/2"

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Here's what I've skated on in the last year after consultation with my skate technician (who has far more grand customers than me--including a couple of former national champions). As far as I know, I am his only figures oriented customer.
He based my ROH first on my ability, then on the ice I normally skate on. This appears to be his common practice.
When I was a baby beginner on hockey ice, 1/2. Then I was not satisfied with my hang in my edges so he took me down to 7/16 (on hockey ice). That got me through the learning curve. Then I told him I wasn't happy with my glide in my figures. I'm now on 9/16 (still on hockey ice). We're planning on shallower cuts as I get more experience.
The first couple of minutes on the ice with 9/16 ROH after months with 7/16 were scary, And for some reason I lost my 'feel' of the blade. I had to actually go back and spend an hour retraining certain elements. I find that I have to focus to keep my edge, and it really forces me into correct body positions---ie. it's a lot less forgiving of sloppy habits.
So based on ISK8NY's comment, I'm creeping my way up to a recreational cut (5/8==10/16). Is that what they use on rentals? Maybe that explains why no one wearing rentals can keep their feet under them.

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Great forum quotes:
On Falling: '...it doesn't matter, it's what you do AFTER you fall that's more important' ISK8NYC

i think 1/2 and 7/16 are pretty common. too much bite can be a bad thing. i have seen some sharpeners in the Bay Area do 5/16... makes me shake my head. those real deep hollows take away speed and will make you fatigue much faster ( and when your legs are tired you are more apt to wreck/injure yourself ).

Three different sharpeners told me that 5/8" is the factory standard. Is that true, Zac?

Also, just for the record, do all skate sets come pre-sharpened?

(I understand if you can only speak for Riedell/John Wilson.)

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We really need the metric system in the US. I'm pretty dumb with math, but I can't tell what the difference is from 1/2 to 3/8.

Funny but (sadly) true!

1/2" = 4/8" -- does that help when comparing?

5/8" = Shallow ROH
4/8" = Deeper ROH
3/8" = Deepest ROH (of my examples, lol)

Now, let's throw in a metric monkey wrench. My patch blades are 1-1/2" ROH. I'm confused?!?!?

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Ok, it's pie time.

1/2 is half a pie.

3/8 is just under half a pie (1/8) because it would take 4/8 to equal 1/2.

7/16 is even closer to 1/2 than 3/8 because 3/8 in /16's would be 6/16's which is 1/16th farther than 7/16 is to 1/2 = 8/16.

5/8 is closest to a whole because in /16ths it would be expressed as 10/16ths which is really flat.

5/16's has a very deep hollow and is 3/16's deeper than 1/2.

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C'mon - tackle 1-1/2" (mainly because I don't quite get it myself, lol)

Oh wait, I can still do math. 1-1/2" = 3/2 = 12/8"

Nope, still don't get it. To me, that says the ROH would result in a blade with the edges higher than the center.

Edit: Okay, I just figured it out now. I was confused by the pie analogy; it's really a SECTION of a circle that we describe as "Shallow" or "Deep." The larger the ROH (1.5" for example) used in sharpening, the more shallow the hollow will become.

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Yes. It's the jumble of divisions that screw me up. If I get a baseline denominator - fractions out of 8 or 16 - I can compare just fine. It's when we're going 7/8 to 5/16, I'm all, "whaaa???" 14/16 and 5/16 make more sense to me, because I only have to compare the numerator. I get that the bigger the fraction, the flatter the hollow; just like the bigger the rocker, the flatter the blade.

Go metric system!

You had my attention when you started talking about pie, then you had to go getting all technical and stuff...

If my sharpener offered me pie instead of fractions, I'd be there every week!

My dd's typical ROH is 7/16, that is her Freestyle edge. I have read/heard/been told that most children will like a sharper blade (deeper hollow) because they don't have the weight to force the edges to grab the ice on a shallower edge...I guess that makes sense

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BuggieMom
><>
Some people are like a Slinky...not really good for anything,
but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs....

NONE of the good blades come "factory sharpened" so there is no such thing as a "factory standard".

The reason I ask is because I have started sharpening skates for other people, mainly coaches. I have been doing my own and my coach's skates for about a year and I DIDN'T want to get into the sharpening business but there is nobody else in the area people trust.

I would have thought that people who were so precise about their skating (like high level coaches) would know the actual dimension of the RoH but apparently many don't. They only have a name (like 'combination') which tells me absolutely nothing! And one VERY high level coach who's skates I did yesterday had gone so long without sharpening that there was no radius left that I could measure!

Since there is no standard nomenclature, I need to make up my own "cheat sheet" so when somebody asks for a XYZ sharpening I have some idea what they expect.

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Dianne
(A.O.S.S.? Got it BAD! )

Hmmm...Both sets of Coronation Ace that I have purchased have come with a factory sharpening. The blades purchased in 2002 were sharpened just fine - so much so that I skated on them for a month before resharpening them.

The newest blades purchased last year weren't sharpened as carefully from the factory, but I could have done fine for a couple weeks on the factory edge.

You can even see the hollow in this photo:

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Bill Schneider

I asked about skate sets, which are boot and blade combinations like Jackson Freestyles and Riedell Medallions. Since Zac is from Riedell, I thought he could give me a definitive answer to clear up the confusion.

Riedell lists (on their website) a variety of 5/16" and 7/16" as their standard ROH for Freestyle and Advanced Freestyle blades.

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My rink does light freestyle, freestyle and dance.

I do dance and freestyle in the same pair of skates. I'm a sharp skate person to begin with, and I find that the dance sharpening works best with my blades (Ultima Synchro).

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I stand corrected on the "factory sharpening".

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Dianne
(A.O.S.S.? Got it BAD! )

while blades come with a factory hollow i strongly suggest getting them sharpened. all blades are different as to what ROH comes on them. most come with a 7/16, but Freestyle and Dance are generally deeper 3/8 to 5/16.

Someone once told me (about 20 years ago) that the bit of sharpness good blades come with result from the finishing process and it's good enough to use in checking blade mounting for a few turns. *Shrug* What about the skate sets such as the Riedell Ribbon and Medallion series? I've always wanted to ask a manufacturer rep this question: Do the skate sets come pre-sharpened? I know of several places that sell skates (not pro shops, sporting goods stores) that claim the skates are already sharpened. Yet, they don't feel very sharp to me - is it a " lasts 2 hours" sharpening? lol

ETA: I had a beginner student skate today on brand-new skates with their "Factory Sharpening." They were Reidell's with leather heels, so I think they're probably Medallions. The kid really struggled with gliding from the moment she stepped on the ice. The blades just stopped as soon as she stopped pushing or marching. The girl said they felt "sticky."

I felt the blade edges and they were dull - didn't even need to do the fingernail scrape test. I gave them a few strokes with my sharpening stone - they felt rough and unfinished. Maybe I removed some junk, but she was able to glide by herself almost immediately and by the end of the session, she was pushing one foot at a time and really skating much faster than she should have been, lol. I suggested that the mom have the skates sharpened.

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It took me FOREVER to find this page, but I had just read it before this conversation came up, so I thought it was worth tracking down.

Here it seems like people are saying the competitive sharpenings are deeper than the recreational ones (or maybe I've got the numbers backwards?)

This site, lists the opposite
http://fredsskatesharpening.com/qa_blades.html

What do you all think of that? (The link to this guy is from Detroit Skating Club's website)

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-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

Remember that the RoH describes the Radius of a circle. But it is an arc of the circumference of that circle that fits the curvature of the hollow of your blade. Bigger radius = bigger (and flatter) circumference.

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