Why is this?? What about a Pre Bronze freestyler who is working on Silver moves and in some cases, could have very well passed them?
I still do not buy into the Championship Bronze and Silver event proposal.
It has been said too many times that there is not enough ice time to include Pre Bronze freeskate (the REAL reason is that it's assumed that Pre Bronzers do not know how to skate) and this year's AN was a stretch both days with the IJS being utilized for Gold and Masters events.
I'm still of the thinking that this is a idea being proposed to generate more money and people for Sectionals. Am I right about this??

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Adult Nationals, 2009 "The Time of My Life"

Terrie C, for the reasons already mentioned - and a cry from the judges that they didn't want "Judge all that non-skating". It doesn't matter what moves test anyone is working on, you still need to be bronze fs to compete.

Again, we wanted to see a higher quality of skating, reduce numbers, and have gold skaters not compete with Master's skaters.

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Recycle Love - Adopt a homeless pet

You didn't read the entire question!!!
How can you call it "non skating" if the skater passed Silver moves, but for whatever reason is at Pre Bronze on the freestyle end of things?
By the way, who are you reffering to as "we?"

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Adult Nationals, 2009 "The Time of My Life"

To which Terri C replied...

Or for that matter, someone who made it to AN thru passing the requisite ice dance track and is doing Interp?

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

I did that this year. I had to skate masters interp (I did A/D, not a great fan of the comedy either) because of my dance test level. I was SO outclassed by those girls, I went back to my hotel & had a serious pondering session as to whether I should quit skating. It was NOT a level playing field, by any stretch of the imagination & I was a bit embarassed to be out there with them. They were fabulous....I was not.

I would be very happy to see a more separated field for interp, and keep the masters skaters in their own group. I may be a pre-gold dancer, but I'm still an *adult* pre-gold dancer. Anyone who thinks it shouldn't matter should watch my event when it comes up on icenetwork.

Of course, if they add in solo dance, then that would be my event of choice, at which point I should at least look like I belong with my group! I only did interp because it was my only option & I wanted to be a part of AN.

Terri,
I did indeed read everything. The example skater was your's not mine. I'm not addressing a particular situation, we could have zillions. In your example, that skater with only a pre-bronze fs, with or without silver moves could not enter.

"We" refers to the last working group on interpretive, when the judges wanted it eliminated it because of "all the non-skating programs". This is not a new problem, it's been with us for 13 years.

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Recycle Love - Adopt a homeless pet

There would be initial rounds of Gold I, Gold II, Gold II, Gold IV .... who all would compete to qualify for Championship Gold.

Awww!!! Thank you so much for that compliment, Thin-Ice. It really means a lot!

ETA:

More awwww! THANK YOU jazzpants!

Not to menton the high-level judge who told me that she would never go back to Adult Nats after seeing some of those interp programs (I didn't get to watch any of the interp numbers, so I cannot weigh in). Or the technical specialist who was "appalled" at what was seen. The specialist even had the audacity to say that a ladies V interp group was reminiscent of commercials involving feminine hygiene products!

__________________
Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
-Haha, I've *arrived*! I am listed as a reference on Wikipedia.

hahaha, like this one?

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Tim David's Website

Was that after this past Chicago ANs?

So are you saying that "the majority of the non-skating freak show programs" were done by Bronze skaters? Well, I wasn't around in skating 13 years ago, but I've seen a fair number of Interp events at comps and I do not think Bronze skaters have a monopoly on the "non-skating freak show" genre. Meaning that I've seen Bronze and Silver skaters do serious, beautiful programs and I've seen both Bronze and Silver skaters do gimmicky-type programs. And if the original concern was to get gimmicky-Interp Bronze skaters to move up to Silver by restricting eligibility for Interp events, then theoretically all that would do is get them to test up in FS and the "freak show programs" would just be moved along with them.

I'm offended at the suggestion that Bronze skaters are somehow not capable of skating a good Interp program (and the judgment of good vs non-skating is of course, highly subjective and variable). As Jazzpants said, Bronze skaters have earned their way to AN - I think to restrict them from one of the skating events is unfair and would also result in decreased revenue for the LOC and USFSA.

I do agree with the idea of separating Masters skaters from Gold - I'm trying to think of how that could be done, though. I suppose there could be separate Interp groups for each of the skating levels, but then that could be a scheduling nightmare and also cause problems with filling out the groups, esp when you divide the artistic vs. comedy programs. And then where do you put the skaters that have not yet passed Bronze FS but have passed the required dance tests to do Interp?

At this time, I'll go on record and oppose the Champ Bronze and Silver proposal. I do think it would lead to sandbagging, and given that skaters in most of the age groups at those levels have to qualify for a final round at AN anyway, I think a Champ event is unnecessary.

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

That's me.

I don't know if I agree with this, as it would not be fair to all the Bronze skaters who already have to skate against Silver level competitors that are mixed in with their Interp group. If this was done, regular Interp should be broken up between Bronze and Silver too.

As a Bronze level skater who has done AN Interp events twice (and the only Bronze level skater on the podium at one of them, I am very proud to say), I agree 1000%.

Ok guys: general here - Silver test skaters would have a higher level of skating than bronze. Read the "general" no insults, just have to draw the line somewhere. Bronze skaters are wonderful!

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Recycle Love - Adopt a homeless pet

The problem then is with those officials, not the skaters. I'm appalled that any official would have such an elitist attitude. If they don't want to come back to AN, good riddance.

Speaking of Pro-Am, I am currently lobbying for it to be added to some of the adult only competitions (Wyandotte and Buckeye to be specific). It might be a way to see how it goes, and gauge the interest among adult skaters. One interesting point that was made when I initially suggested this to one of the competitions was that there was minimal interest in solo dance, at best, so they wondered if there would be any interest in a Pro-Am event. That being said, I wonder how much interest there would be in solo dance at AN? I would like to know if anyone would be interested in Pro-Am dance events, though. Both competitions will entertain the idea if I can round up some interest.

I like the idea of a short and long program. I'd rather work on a short and long than long and interp. OK, I won't be working on either, but it's an interesting idea.

To those officials... I say "GOOD RIDDANCE!!!" and "Don't let the door hit 'ya in the fanny!!!" (And we'll even send them this as a parting gift too!!!)

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

How about this: drop comedy interp, and add a Solo Compulsory Dance/Original Dance event. Lake Placid did this last year & several local comps in my area followed suit. You do 1 compulsory & then a solo Original dance to whatever the specified rhythm is for that year.

It will encourage dancers to compete even if they don't have a partner, and make it more fun/interesting/worth the trip than just doing one compulsory. (though I think most solo dance comps would do 2 compulsories & combine the scores)

Personally I'd be more likely to do a solo dance event than pro-am, unless the event was close enough to not have to pay for my coach's trip....adds a lot to the expense. Great to have them there to put you out if you can afford it, but if you can't... or your coach is female & you're female...or your coach doesn't skate anymore....again limiting who can compete in the event.

My preference:

Drop the Championship Bronze and Silver FS event proposal, keep Sectionals, interp and Championship events the way it is and just add solo dance. I still think Pre-Bronze at AN is a better cash cow, but short of pushing for that, I would like to see solo dance event b/c not everyone can find a partner and will appease to those judge that want to see "real skating."

To me, it's just easier to implement those items in. Less "what ifs"....

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

I really don't see Pro-Am at AN, but would like to see it offered at adult competitions around the country. I'm guessing if you have a female coach, or a guy has a male coach, that you could find someone to partner with. I know VanCamp in Michigan is offering it for the first time this year, but adults will have to compete against the kids. Totally off the topic of this thread, but I think it sounds like fun.

Interp is a very difficult event to judge. I clearly did not say, and the intent of the former proposal was not to imply that bronze level skaters could not put out a decent interp. But yes, Debbie, I have been involved for a while and my thoughts are based on my experience. I've competed in 10 interps at nationals and have placed in the top 5 in 9 of them - so I've seen lots and lots of interps at nationals. The quality of the programs improves with the quality of the skaters. That's not rocket science. There will always be the fluff program at any level, but I can honestly say that the majority of poorer quality programs have come from poorer quality skaters.

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Recycle Love - Adopt a homeless pet

But eliminating Bronze level skaters from Interp is NOT gonna solve the problem. Let's face it - you will always have poorer quality skaters across the boards regardless of levels. It's better to have those lower level skaters learn from the experience by placing them lower and having their "hunger" for better placements to make them work harder for the next time they compete Interp at AN, than to just not allow them to skate Interp. (Not even accounting for phoenix's case here...)

BTW, as I also understand it, the moves requirements, which has the original intention of the skater proving that they have "better quality" skating before you quality for AN, will only work for those that qualified at Bronze FS post 2002 season. It will not deal with the skaters who initially got into Bronze FS w/o the moves requirement and certainly not those that got in prior to the addition of Pre-Bronze FS level and will likely to be "Bronzers for Life" b/c of whatever reason (be it "life" or "physical limitation" or what not...)

As for those judges that complain bitterly about having to see poorer quality skaters. I don't mean to sound harsh to those judges out there but... as I understand it, it's part of what you buy into being a judge! If you want to see better quality skaters, you need to put in the time to judging these "poorer quality" skating events so that you work your way up to being a Gold level judge and THEN be able to judge higher level events. And if you ARE one of those higher level judges... SHAME ON YOU! You should know better than that!!!

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

(Most, if not all, of the judges at AN are high level.)

__________________
Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
-Haha, I've *arrived*! I am listed as a reference on Wikipedia.

I know what you're getting at. My original point stands that you should know better when you go into judging that you're likely to encounter all sorts of skaters. You really can't pick and choose who you're gonna judge, right? (Meaning I'm not bashing all high level judges... just those that are bashing poorer quality skaters. Just don't give them a high score and move on!)

__________________
Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!