What are everyone's thoughts on school phys ed exemptions for competitive skaters? Does anyone here have their kid getting out of Phys Ed. at school due to skating? If so, can you give me some input on how to approach the school, what to say or what NOT to say? Taz Jr. will be in middle school next year. I don't know of any other competitive skaters in our district, so I don't know if there is a precedent for this sort of thing (although the kids in neighboring districts seem to get PE exemptions rather easily so I'm crossing my fingers). Jr. is currently Pre-Juvenile, skates 6 hours a week, plus another 2 of off-ice conditioning. We're hoping to squeeze in just another hour or so each week next year. She's getting a ton of exercise already, I'm hard-pressed to see what she really "needs" PE for. We plan for her to go to Regionals for the first time this fall, even if it is at the non-qualifying Pre-Juv level.

Having one additional period per day to play with might also help with her academic scheduling. She is likely to wind up in at least some honors classes, and she also plays the French Horn. Most kids in our district start band instruction when they start middle school. Hubby is a former band director, and thought that was awfully late to start, so he has been giving her lessons at home and she will be more than ready to play with the 2nd year band in the fall. However, they warned us that it may be hard to schedule her with the older kids as there aren't as many scheduling options for honors classes because there are fewer sections of honors. My thinking is that if we can get her out of PE they'd have an extra period to play around with.

Ironically, hubby is dead-set against the idea of a PE exemption even if it would mean the difference between her wasting the year in 1st year band, or being productive in 2nd year. He seems to think that middle school PE has some redeeming socialization value. My recollection of middle school PE was that it was h*ll on earth, so naturally I'd like to spare my kid that experience.

I am interested in hearing any and all input on this.

I guess if I were going into middle school, I'd be more intimidated about joining the 2nd year band with older kids than anything else. I would prefer to be with my own grade, but that's just me. My daughter did not have PE in middle school because of band. Band took the time up that she would have been in PE. So, if your daughter wants to join the 2nd year band, and a PE exemption gets her there, then I'd pursue it. If she would rather be treated like a "normal" kid at school and blend in (the way my daughter would prefer), I'd allow her to do the PE like all the kids. If she doesn't care about the PE, then pursue an exemption.

You just need to find out which counselor or staff member to talk with and set up a meeting. Explain her skating interest and schedule and your reasons for wanting the exemption, be it to pursue band or honor classes. Be prepared with any info from the other district to refer to.

Most of the skaters I know who have PE exemption actually leave school early to skate.

I personally enjoyed PE....a good PE program is fun and a nice break from sitting at a desk. You get to hang with your friends, and hopefully experience a wide range of sports. I recall doing gymnastics, swimming, basketball, tennis, track, and field hockey. I really enjoyed being introduced to those sports.

Your daughter is young, and parents know best usually, but I think she needs to have a say in what she is comfortable doing, and what priorities she has. You really didn't say what she wanted in your post...

Oh....Yes, I do have my daughter exempted from high school PE, and have arranged that her skating gives her the PE required credit. She leaves early to skate.

Same here

I know for a fact that in NYC the Board of Ed does not allow such an exemption, although they do have billiards as an option for phys ed in high school

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This is a very good post. My daughter received a semi-exception from PE when she was a freshman in high school. We were lucky that the PE Director understood competitive figure skating, and after he spoke to my daughter's figure skating coach, she was assigned other activities, like weight training, which would benefit her. I think if your child is in training it is definately worth stating your case to the PE Director, and having your child's coach and a strength and conditioning professional (who has trained skaters) take part in these conversations as well. There are certain PE activities that are detrimental to a figure skater, such as swimming.

Neither hubby nor I are not particularly worried about this. Jr. has been on a little different page than her peers, socially, her whole life. In 2nd grade she qualified for the district's gifted program. She was breezing through the regular ed program and we wanted her to do it for academic reasons, but it involved being bused to a different school, away from her neighborhood friends, so we asked her how she felt about it. She looked at is as a chance to meet other, new friends...four years later she still sees the neighborhood friends almost as much as her school friends. They have the honors classes at all of the middle schools, so she will be going back in with the neighborhood kids again, and having to fit in with different groups that have formed since she's been out of that daily loop, as well as the new kids from other grade schools. Most of the kids at her grade school live in a different neighborhood and will go to another middle school. And two of her good neighborhood friends are a year ahead of her in school, and in band, so it isn't like she is going to be completely alone in the higher level band.

Point well taken. At least right now, she doesn't particularly care one way or another about PE. She enjoys the fitness things when they come along, like this week when she came home exulting about coming in 2nd in the class and 5th in her entire grade in the mile run. Endurance work in off-ice definitely helped her there. Things like basketball, soccer, volleyball, hmmm, anything involving a ball, she's not all that thrilled with and isn't all that good at.

Thanks for your comments!

Oh, brother, what's next? Playstation games? Pinball?

And there are some out there who say figure skating isn't a sport...

I am curious, how is swimming detrimental to a skater? I have heard this before but never thought to ask why.

I mentioned the idea of a PE exemption to two of Jr.'s coaches a few months ago. Both of them were willing to write letters and provide whatever documentation the school requested verifying her training schedule and activities. I am amazed that schools don't follow up on this...I work in a high school (different district) and know of one young lady who has given up competitive skating not only still has her PE exemption, but is requesting one again for next fall. People like this give the whole concept a bad name. If Jr. were to quit skating, you can bet she'd have her tail back in PE pronto.

I'm curious about the swimming too. We have never taken our suits to swim during a competition, as it does tend to exhaust the muscles when that's the last thing you need at competition. I see plenty of other skaters in the hotel pools though. Since daughter attends a summer skating program there is precious time or energy left to swim anyway....but we don't avoid swimming altogether either.

As for the socialization issue, she probably is better socialized than many...party due to skating. I find that many people think skating has isolated my daughter from a normal social life. I have found it to be her saving grace instead in this area.

I think TazJr. sounds like she will adjust very well to whatever you decide to do!

You should probably consult a PT expert for a more definitive answer, but my daughter's PT told us that swimming over uses muscles in the legs and don't maintain strength.

Swimming turns your muscles to jello, especially warm water. It also changed the feeling of the ground, if you swim for a long period of time. My brothers coach banned him from swimming at a competition. One time he snuck down and swam. Skated like crap the next day. From then on he saved the swimming until after the competition.

PE can include non-physical activies such as "health", which is things like healthy eating, sex ed, organization of phys ed activities to be a playground leader, that sort of thing. At our board, 25% of PE is actually Health and is spent in a classroom.

She might need to do some additional work besides the physical activities of skating, but maybe she helps with learn to skate and that sort of thing?

TheKid got a D in phys ed one year, apparently they were working on modern dance. Years of skating choreo, ballet and off ice classes didn't seem to have any bearing on the final mark, there was a paper that had to be written along with the physical activity and it didn't get done.

It was my daughter's school that got us into ice skating, as it was offered as an option her first term in Year 10 (aged 15+). But the second term not enough girls wanted to do it (an all-girls school!), so the option offered was, would you believe it, 10-pin bowling! I mean, am I missing something here, but surely those girls got more exercise walking to and from the bowling alley than they did when they were there, no?

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Always swim after skating, never before, is my coach's rule. I don't swim much these days, but when I'm on a camp, skating 3 hours/day or more, I find I really need to swim afterwards to stretch my back out. A few lengths of the pool and a soak in the jacuzzi, and I'm fine - but only a few minutes in the jacuzzi, or you end up with no muscles next day (been there, done that, but luckily I wasn't skating that day!).

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tazsk8s
[B]I am curious, how is swimming detrimental to a skater? I have heard this before but never thought to ask why.


I am a competitive swimmer. I actually swim better than skate, but my coach always advises never to swim and then skate. But every saturday I go to my morning swimming practice which is about 1.5-2 hrs. and then I leave right away from that to skating practice and I don't find a big difference with my performance in skating. I NEVER skate and swim on the same day if it's a competition day though.

My coach also thinks even though skating and swimming on the same day isn't really a good thing, she says that's where I get all my endurance from and that I should continue swimming to X-train.

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beckers

It's good to hear from someone who both swims and skates....It reminds me that as a teen I was invincible and could handle hours of athletic endeavors of various kinds without any trouble....Oh to be young again...sigh. I used to train as many hours in gymnastics as daughter does skating, and would swim hard after 3 hours in the gym.

The point as it relates to this thread is that an hour of PE may not be necessary, but it probably won't wear out TazJr. either!

I've heard that it can confuse the muscle memory in your leg muscles, because gravity is suspended when you're in the water. Of course, I imagine you have to spend substantial time in the water to feel this...

Also, I've heard that getting water in your ears can throw your balance off. Does that make any sense?

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"Gravity is a harsh mistress." -- The Tick

I hear some of this from people too. Seems to be a stereotypical perception of skaters. I don't get it at all. I've gotten to know the kids pretty well from being out on the ice with them and the overwhelming majority are friendly and well-adjusted. There's always going to be the one or two that give the rest of them a bad name, but that's true no matter what sport you're in.

Thanks for the info on swimming and skating. I've had my daughter's coaches recommend that she not swim at out of town competition hotels til after she's skated and always assumed that they just didn't want the kids staying up til all hours of the night in the pool. It never occured to me to ask if there was a detrimental effect on the muscles or anything.

In middle school, a year of PE was required for students, but after talking to my princpal, my mom got me permission from the school to be excused from the PE course since i skated a lot. i think a document or something was signed by both of them. Then when i entered high school, my school gave me the option of doing indepent PE with my skating. THis would mean i would keep a weekly chart on my skating practices(how much i practiced), and then only once a week, or once every 2 weeks, i would have to go in to school a few minutes early and give the update to the PE instructor, and then i think they told me i would have to do one paper a semsester about my sport or something, but only like 2 pages long. anyways, this was the option given to us, however, i had room in my schedule to take dance class, which i did for fun, and this also counted as PE credit, so i didnt need to take indepent PE, but i thought it was kool my school was willing to work w/ us for skating.

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~Sk8Bunny~
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"I know you can be overwhelmed, and you can be underwhelmed, but can you ever just be whelmed?"

I will be interested to see what happens with your daughter and her PE waiver. My daughter has one more year in elementary school. Luckily, elementary school PE is only one day a week and she enjoys PE. Middle school will be another matter, however. With daily PE, I'm afraid of over use injuries. Little skaters far exceed any mandated amount of time required by any school district to satisfy the PE requirement.

Maybe the USFSA has information you can use to make your case for a PE waiver for your child.

Good luck!

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Babyskater's Mom

Tazsk8: I hated PE in middle school and high school. (I'm a "not so proud" product of the public school system in a major urban city.) I saw no redeeming socialization value at all being in PE when I was growing up. To add to that, the PE teachers I've had for the most part certainly were not role models for "acceptable socialization skills." Quite a few of them aren't even role models for "physical fitness" even! (I had a discussion with one of my former PE teacher about all the other PE teachers at my school when we bumped into each at a health club working out many years later. It was quite an eye opener! ) And, of course, I made very, VERY few friends when I was in middle school and high school. So much for school PE and "socialization."

Here's a thought... is there any way where you have a partial PE exemption where on days that the PE teachers do running or calistenics that she shows up for it and on days where they're playing basketball, baseball, etc. that she makes up for it in ice time? That may help address some of the socialization concerns that your hubby has (since she's still participating in some of the PE stuff that should help her with her skating) but still gives her the benefits of being a competitive skater.

It's laughable to read about the short sightedness of people who think 1) figure skating is not a sport. (I'd like to see THEM go a few laps in power stroking class nonstop!!!) and 2) that socialization only belongs at school's PE class. If they only know my story...

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

One of the reasons I want my child out of regular PE is because of the running and calistenics. Usually this is done on the asphalt which is terrible for anyone's legs, not to mention a young athlete in training. I know a skater who does middle school PE (she skates every day but not a lot of hours and isn't doing really big jumps yet) who has shin splints and achilles problems from pounding on the cement. She is now allowed to skip the running part of PE.

One other thing, if your husband is dead set against it, it may not be worth the fight to get your child out of PE until she is adamant about it herself. If she feels she needs it, Dad may more happily go along with it. I don't know about your family but in ours, when Daddy is unhappy EVERYONE is unhappy!

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Babyskater's Mom

I should also add that, personally, I would have preferred the off ice training in lieu of PE altogether, (but I was aiming for a compromise.) As Babyskates's mom says, the concrete is very hard on the body, even with good running shoes!!!

These days, I can't do much running or even speed walking on the treadmill anymore even b/c it aggravates my lower back. My two options for cardio now are inclined bike or elliptical trainer. I, of course, went for the elliptical trainer myself! It's like running, but w/o the hard impact of the ground!)

Of course, as always, YMMV...

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

I tried to get out of gym my Junior year of High School (soon to be Junior in college now), and they would not let me. They said that it was a state requirement that all students take gym and pass. I refused to take gym, so my Senior year in high school I filled up my classes with art (which was a good thing, I found out that I wanted to major in Graphic Design), and took independent gym.

The way I went about it was I had my coach write a letter to the phys ed department, and the principal, explaining how much skating I did, etc. The gym teacher was behind me on it, but the school would not budge.

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Lisa

Wont it be great? Someone else in '08!

Thanks, everyone! Lots of good comments and suggestions!

Arena_gal, the middle school does include a portion that is in the classroom and labelled "Health". I think it's all of three weeks out of the year. I had forgotten about that, I'm sure we'd have to either find a way for her to attend that somehow, or be responsible for that part of the curriculum. Even the kids I do know who have PE exemptions in other schools are required to take it.

Babyskates, we have managed to keep Taz Jr. pretty much injury-free thus far. Worst things that have ever happened to her were a chipped baby tooth from falling into the boards (no real harm done, tooth fell out a long time ago), and a fat lip from being accidentally knocked to the ground in a fluke collision with another skater. Of course, the usual bumps and bruises, but nothing that has ever required doctor's intervention. I definitely intend to keep it that way! The potential for overuse injuries is a definite concern of mine.

Jazzpants, I bet we could probably trade similar school PE horror stories. The worst part WAS the so-called "socialization" experience - adolescent girls can be so awful to each other! Some of this took place in the class itself, but the worst of it took place in the locker room, out of sight of the teacher. I hadn't thought of a partial exemption as a compromise. Although a partial exemption wouldn't help if we're trying to use it for scheduling purposes, it might be something to shoot for if they absolutely won't go for a total exemption. Regarding cardio, I can't do the treadmill either. Nor can I handle running. Too jarring on the knees (ok, so like on-ice jumping ISN'T? ). Stationery bikes are ok, I can handle the stairmonster ok too, which is interesting because a lot of people hate that thing!