The question isn't like, what age but more what level were you at. What else were you able to do? For example, did you have all jumps including the lutz? What spins could you do? How solid was your backspin? How solid were your combo jumps, i.e. waltz-loop-loop, lutz-loop etc.

I'm just curious - I'm pretty much assured of landing my lutz consistently soon, and as much as I'd like to start on the axel I'm not wondering if I need to spend a lot more time on the singles and single combos first? What does everyone think?

I had very solid singles, I could do 3 loops in a row w/ one hand in front and one hand in back, they all had to be the same size. I also had a lutz-loop-loop and a walley. One essential was a waltz back spin and the waltz loop loop. A good back spin fast and very centered was also key to success I was landing them on the land easily. I took about 6-9 months to get my axel but I had one as a kid and this was 22 years later.

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I definitely had all of my singles, single combos, and jump sequences. I actually began my double loop before my axel to get the feeling of the rotation. I agree about the waltz backspin, and my coach even has me do waltz-dbl loop instead of just waltz-loop. A backspin is essential as well.

Personally, I started landing doubles well before my axel, but I'm also much more comfortable with toe jumps (flip, lutz, toe-loop) than edge jumps.

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I had all my singles including lutz loop combo and a very solid backspin when I started the axel. I'm still working on it six months later, but oh well.....

I had all of my single jumps through the lutz, but no lutz-loop yet.
I don't see any reason why you can't go ahead and start working on the axel now, as long as you have 3 revolutions on your backspin and a nice, controlled waltz-loop. Also, I found it helped tremendously to get the axel on the floor before trying it on the ice (I recommend boys' basketball shoes with good heel and ankle support).

I was doing an axel before I could ever do a backspin.

Yeah, a lot of the adults I know who have an axel or some doubles tell me they learned those jumps before they had a really good backspin....

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I think backspin is highly overrated for helping jumps. Sure I would love to be able to do a fabulous backspin; I can't but that didn't stop me from landing up to the 2axel.

Funny, just today I was in my lesson working on my double-loop and then we did some more work on the axel and it was significantly better because of all the work we had been doing on the double loop. My coach said that sometimes it's better to work on the double loop (because there's no change in centering .... like on the axel and double-sal) to get the feeling of turning in the air....

It worked well for me....

I don't think it requires a fabulous backspin (I wouldn't have an axel or any doubles if it did), but you were at least able to squeeze out 3 revolutions on a backspin before landing your axels or any doubles, weren't you? A lot of adult skaters, including myself, learn all of their 1-revolution jumps before even getting 3 turns on the backspin.

Well here's my deal, and let me see what you think - obviously the final decision rests with my coach but I would like to start working on it some time this year.

Fact - I COULD do a lutz, but then I took time off and I haven't had the ice time needed to really work on it to get it back
Fact - I can do a passable backspin - not great, but at least 3 revs, yes.
Fact - I can do loop jumps but I find doing the loop in combination with anything other than a loop difficult...at the same time I don't work on it much

So - provided I get a coach back relatively soon, is it possible that I start working on the axel sometime this year? I know everyone is different, but I've been skating for like, a year and a half now (with 2 long breaks) and this is where I'm at. Thoughts?

I've heard some people have success with the inside axel (FI takeoff from same leg as landing leg) before they master the axel, for the same reason--takeoff and landing leg are the same, so there's no transfer of weight from one side of the body to the other to deal with.

I've tried a few attempts at an inside axel on the ice (with and without harness) and they're really weird! Getting entry right is a challenge in itself. Then again, I'm far from being ready to work on the regular axel, too!

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I am following the ISI tests, so that is in the freestyle 5 level... I landed my axel around the time I had a camel, sit, camel-sit, back scratch, (spins i dont recall them being too good, but I had to have at least 6 revolutions for the back spin i think)
lutz and flip were rather easy by then and I did flip-loop in combination for competition as well apart from the axel. I think I had a very shaky camel-sit-backsit too at that time.
For me the turning point was landing the axel fully rotated off-ice. The one on ice came soon after.

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My experience is like 20 years ago.
I could land all singles up to lutiz, even though my loop was abysmal.
I started preparatory work for axel, double toe-loop and was working on flying camels all at the same time. (then got transferred with work, no rink, had to stop skating before I ever got to land one)

Backspin? What backspin?


Can't wait to get up to where I left off.

Same here. In childhood, stopped skating about 17 years ago, had some doubles and single axel, was working on double axel and triples, in spins - bielman. Didn't even know backspin existed!

Point is: backspin might be a very helpful skill for learning axel/doubles, but it's overrated I do have to say that we did a LOT of off-ice jumping back then.

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Hello all,

When I started to land my axel I did't have a particularly great back spin. It's not great now either. Spinning has never been my strength. At the time I got my axel I couldn't do a reliable sit spin either and the camel was not even a figment of my imagination. I remember my coach and I doing a lot of work on waltz/loop and loop/loop combinations. I also remember being shocked the first time I landed it. I had gone out on the ice with a headache and was feeling kind of sluggish. My coach suggested we try the axel and so I figured "Why the heck not?" and chucked it. Before I knew it I had done the jump and my face looked like this: ! LOL Just to make sure it wasn't dumb luck my coach had me do like three of four more and they all worked. This lead to more !! Of course, it promptly disappeared for a while afterwards but it came back.

Take care and best of luck with your work on the axel.

Frank

Oh how i hate this jump. I am coming back from 30 years off the ice. I have all my singles and single combinations and they are consistant. But getting my axel back and in proper postion eludes me. I started working on my axel as soon as i got back on the ice and was working on it at the same time i was working on all my other single jumps. The inside axel was a piece of cake , i learned how to do that jump in 15 minutes, easy because there is no weight transfer but it in no way helps with the outside axel. I can do an axel and get the rotation but it is not in the proper back spin position i think it is fear that stops me from getting in the postion. I can do it on the harness but often fall off the back of my blade because my weight is to far back, very scary! So i am now working on double loops which help with axel postion .

I've been thinking more about the backspin since my last post and realise that I did have a backspin back then. It was, as I say, 20+ years ago. My backspin wasn't as good as my forward spin, but I used to get 5+ revolutions.

And I do recall my coach making me do a backspin on landing a waltz and toe-loop as preparation for axels and double toes. I remember misunderstanding her and trying to go straight into a full-on spin, rather than just the single revolution she wanted.

Karen

Started working on the axel again today. I learned the waltz-backspin prep this summer, but we never went very far with it. Now that my spins have improved (frontspin is good, frontspin-backspin has much improved, sit and camel aren't gorgeous, but do get revs), the waltz-backspin is much better, and much more correct. My waltz-loops has also gotten much better. I think practicing a lot of loops and backspins is key.

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Could you please explain the inside axel. Is it like a salchow from a FI edge? Like pulling into a backspin but you jump it?

Maybe I can help.

The InsideAxel is done from a forward take off. Not like an Axel, where most people begin by skating backward and then step forward. The InsideAxel usually starts from forward stroking. The skater steps to their right foot (assuming they are CCW jumper) with a bent knee. Ideally, the left foot is off the ice at this point. The skater then leaps up off the right foot, rotating CCW 1 1/2 revolutions, landing backward on their right foot. The jump is very similar to a 1Loop.

What's a bummer is that the InsideAxel is given no credit as a jump. In artistic roller competition, where the jump is called a Boeckl, it carries the same value as an Axel and a Colledge (or 1-Foot Axel).

Hope that helps!

Kelton

The inside axel is taken off from a deep right forward inside edge rotate counterclockwise one and a half revolutions and land on an back right outside edge. It sounds scary but just pull in and the rotation comes very easy and although you should cross your left leg over your right leg you can get the rotation witout doing that, it just doesnt look as nice. I really learned this jump in 15 minutes instead of the 15 months it has taken me to get my axel back. The inside really does not help the outside axel but at least you can say you have your axel!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd definitely recommend doing a bunch of waltz-loop-loops to get used to changing your weight over to the right hip and staying right over it (the trick is to jump straight up each time). Also do a lot of axels on the floor. I don't think I could have ever landed my axel on the ice without first landing on the floor. Good luck!

Hi sunshinepointe!
I started working on my axel, double salchow and double toe all at the same time under my old coach. At that time, my backspin was NON existant. My lutz was pretty lousy too.
It's been 3 years since then and I've changed coach. The new coach wouldnt let me do ANYTHING but axels, so my backspin, camel, back camel, flying camel all had time to improve and deprove and basically become inconsistent.
my axel is finally going somewhere though
I agree with the others. Off ice axels are the way to go. I also like to practice off-ice doubles (even though some are underrotated) then do axels again. I'd just advise you to be careful if you try axels on your own on the ice. Wrong edge and stuff can make the landing very painful. Also, I landed my 1-foot-axel long before the real axel, simply because I didn't transfer my weight.
All the best