haha. i was wondering... is it 'safe' to try an axel for the first time on ice without a coach? ive got it perfect off ice... but... i want to try it on ice but im afraid to.... so..... what do u think?

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Try it with helmet + protective pads if you do decide to try it for yourself. No point doing some major damage or getting yourself you know what if something goes wrong.

Not that I'm doing axels or anything, but...

Nothing in skating is "safe". If you can do it well off ice then maybe give it a go on the ice. That being said though, from what I understand there are things about the axel that can go very wrong and learning bad technique isn't going to help you.

This really doesn't answer your question but I do understand what it's like to want to try something a bit more advanced. In my case taught myself the flip and I was doing it all wrong

SO ummm...have you talked to your coach about starting the axel? If you can do it off ice and your loops and stuff are good then I can't see why he/she wouldn't want you to learn it. If they say no, ask them why - maybe they know something you don't?

If you have a coach, you should ask him/her this question.

I would recommend starting on ice with waltz / loop combinations and waltz/backspin combinations before trying an axel. If you don't have those skills yet, or a very strong landing, you're getting ahead of yourself. Basic skills come before tricks.

The problem with self-taught axels is that there's no one to critique or correct your form. There's more to it than just 1.5 rotations, as you can see from the many postings on this and other boards. Form is really important to mastering the axel without cheating or getting hurt. Unlearning bad habits is much harder than not acquiring them in the first place.

Be patient! You'll get there.

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I would be more worried about developing bad habits from teaching yourself, than hurting yourself. It's very frustrating to try and "unlearn" bad habits.

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I'd prefer to start the jump, any jump, under guidance first. I badly sprained my ankle doing OFF ICE axels! Go figure It really is easier to get corrections from the start, though, there's nothing more difficult or worse than trying to unlearn bad habits.

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The best whisper is a click

Probably not. You might not cause any bodily harm, but you run the risk of picking up bad habits. Axels off ice are not the same as on ice. If you're really eager to start, work on waltz-loops, waltz-backspin, etc. The other good drill is a 2/3 Axel - same take-off, but you land facing forward on two feet. The goal with that is to really feel the step UP.

Ice and floor ARE different. Ask your coach to put you in the harness to try. If you have a positive first axel try, GREAT, if not, at least you will be safe. And like mentioned, getting feedback from your coach will help you avoid improper technique.

Chico

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"I truly believe, when God created skating, he patted himself on the back."

I think that it depends on the type of person you are. A person that is quick to learn and quick to adapt won't be limited much by habits. Although, it seems there are a lot of people that can't snap out of bad habits quickly.

Do you have a coach?

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My daughter has a better on ice axle than off ice one. Her coach said she is the first one she had like that.
I would do it with my coach or find one. Too many bad habits which need correction later for most people.

An axel is not something I would mess around with on my own on the ice. When I returned to the ice, I worked on it on my own and got it back (had one as a kid) before I started working with my coach. When we started working together, hoo boy, we had to practically start over and UNLEARN a bunch of really bad habits I had developed. It took me the better part of 6 months to straighten it out with a lot of effort...

It's not really about being quick to learn and adapt...it's about muscle memory. It's not as simple as just "telling" your body to do something different. It's about repetition.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luna Skater
It's not really about being quick to learn and adapt...it's about muscle memory. It's not as simple as just "telling" your body to do something different. It's about repetition

And once you have muscle memory the "bad" way, even when you think you've got it unlearned, your bad muscle memory can come back at inopportune moments (tests, competitions, exhibitions) and you wonder "where the heck did that come from???"

Yes, I pointed out to my coach once that there was very little point in my practising - I forget what it was, a Mohawk, I think - while my technique was off, since I was just learning to do it wrong. He agreed, and changed "Practice makes perfect" to "Practice makes permanent"!

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Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Safe, probably. Smart, no.

Unless you want to go to your next lesson and hear a laundry list of things you've gotten accustomed to doing (happens more quickly than you'd think) that are wrong, don't start axels on your own. I spent more time working on the axel unsupervised than I should have initially and spent months trying to relearn the takeoff so that I wasn't cheating it. I skate with a girl right now who's doing the same thing and I cringe when I see it, because I know how hard it's going to be for her to fix that when she's practicing it wrong. If I ever have a student doing the same thing I'll tell them not to practice axels without me until I give the ok, which will be when I see him or her consistantly doing it correctly in lessons. If your coach hasn't had you start doing axels on the ice in your lessons, there's a reason- you're probably not ready.

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It took me a year to land an axel on the ice after landing my first clean axel on the floor, so I have to agree with those who are saying off-ice and on ice axels are not the same. If you hadn't said you were a little afraid, I would have told you to go for it, but if you are even a little afraid, your body will hunch in the air and resist staying backwards, both of which will increase your chances of a bad fall. My progression was (1) landing them on the floor, (2) landing them on the harness, (3) landing them on my own on the ice.

you could try it...but make sure you get imput from a coach soon after...try it from a standstill (it might seem harder but it avoids bad habits) and don't throw yourself..i've done some weird things throwing myself in double axels