I didn't read anything about an evil plot, either. *shrugs* All rinks want to increase their freestyle attendance numbers. They need to find the right price point and schedule to market that segment well. They also have to have good ice.

Rules have to be sensible, fair and equitable, applied to everyone equally.

I think this trend is less about making money and more about mismanagement. For those with the coned-off FS middle, how many times are you STILL cut off by people cutting through, meeting up to chat, or using the cones as a slalom course? Guards don't even pay attention, yet they can see a ninny doing a lutz against traffic and the guards are scrambling to enforce! lol

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If the rink I go to banned figure skating on public sessions then I would have to give up, as I'm not eligible to skate on patch (freestyle). According to the rules, you have to have passed a certain level of the rink's own Learn to Skate programme in order to skate on patch. This includes being able to do a waltz jump and a one foot spin. I can see myself getting the waltz jump eventually, but I was spin-challenged even when I skated as a teen, so it's possible I will never be technically eligible to skate on patch ice, even though this means I have to practice ice dance with my husband on public sessions. Anyway, my point is that with this rule, I can only practice, and take lessons, on public sessions (of club patch, which is different, but the timetabling of those sessions is not good for me).

I can certainly see why rink managers would be nervous about people doing high level jumps and spins on public sessions, but I think it would be near impossible to prescribe accurately what is, or more importantly, what isn't, dangerous, particularly as there is a world of difference between a quiet weekday morning session and a busy weekend afternoon. But most high level skaters wouldn't be going to those busy sessions anyway. Banning all figure skating would basically drive a lot of low level learners out of the sport, including some youngsters who might potentially go on to greater things.

N.B.: I just need to say that I don't have a problem with my rink's rules about patch as such. I do have a problem with the fact that the rule about passing level seems to be inconsistently applied, but that's totally off-topic for this thread.

BTW over here schools are done at 12.00 on wednesdays and so the wednesday public session is children only. You're not getting in unless you're under 12 or accompanying somebody under 12. Same thing for sunday mornings.

Trouble is, there are no children-free public sessions, although the late tuesday night public session comes close.

I think there should be! Would make for safer skating.

In return to what others have said, I also have my lesson on a public session (although I'm hopefully moving to patch soon). There are ABSOLUTELY no figure skating (or lack of) rules at our rink, and although the middle circle (I forgot to mention, the rink has hockey markings on, so technically I suppose it is a hockey ring...) is meant to be for figure skating only, it isn't the only place for figure skaters. Did that make sense?

it's okay when a section is cut off for figure skaters to practice their moves.

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Giaz.
scene chav gonna tear you down .. because i'm gonna come and get you!
take the pee, and i'll hit you where it hurts with my toepick.

WOW!!! The only rule that's enforced is no jumping outside the middle of the rink... and that's only on a very crowded public session (usually on weekends... and I only know about that rule b/c kander broke that rule a few times and got CAUGHT!!! ) During the less crowded weekday sessions and even the evening sessions, we got tons of lessons going on and A LOT of FS skaters!!! Everything in FS is pretty much allowed as long as you're courteous and careful. We're a very figure skater friendly rink, as you could imagine. When it's emptier, the skaters are also known for running their programs too.

BTW: My lesson just got switched to the noon time public session. I originally had my lessons on coffee club. No problem with that. I'm now preparing for AN and need a session that's much emptier and the public session is much emptier than the coffee club. (Of course, it could very well be that my coach is annoyed that I keep coming into my coffee club lesson late b/c my JOB keeps throwing me stuff to do at the very last minute EVERY SINGLE TIME I try to leave for a lesson!!! )

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

The rink where I've been working this season has clearly stated public session rules that the center is for figure skating and private lessons only, and that skaters may be asked to leave the center for those purposes and must obey. Unfortunately, this is one rule of about 20 posted in fine print, to fit them all on one page, and there are no announcements at all. The guards can only do so much on heavily crowded sessions, and have their hands full just going after the kids (and big kids) in hockey skates weaving in and out and running full speed out of control. When I'm teaching in the center, I find myself constantly shooing kids and adults out. Adults who have brought their tots to the rink and see a lesson in the center assume it's a teaching area, or for beginners. Over the holidays I filled in for rink management and was directing guards to watch the center when needed, and doing so myself also. It's a very, very difficult job, and most rinks cannot afford to staff high enough to do it right. IMO, it would take a minimum of 4 guards. One for each half of the rink for general guarding work, and two to enforce the center skating rules. What rink do you know that puts 4 guards on the ice regularly? Our public session rules also state that figure skaters cannot do any camels, spirals, or jumps over 1/2 rev. The guards are totally uninterested in enforcing that, and I had to ask a couple of visiting high level teenage skaters to stop doing Axels in the center when we had over a hundred people on the ice one day. OTOH, when the pubic sessions are relatively empty, skaters are sometimes even allowed to play their program music, and are given complete freedom with jumps, spins, and moves.

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This discussion reminds me of the time, about 10 years ago, when we took younger DD to a public session at the Lussi rink at Lake Placid while on a camping trip. There were no jumps allowed, but there was only one guard present and no one watching off ice. DD skated behind the guard, jumping all the way around the rink as the guard made her circuits .

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The number of skaters on the ice makes a huge difference.

My rink has a couple of open adult sessions at lunchtime during the week. Basically anything goes, as long as the skaters are all over 18. Because of the timing and age restrictions, they're never very crowded. Most skaters who use them have some figure skating skills, ranging from beginning edges to silver dances. There will usually be a couple of beginners and/or hockey skaters, and occasionally a speedskater.

With 20-30 skaters on the ice, I can usually get through moves in the field patterns with approximately as much interference as I would on a freestyle with similar numbers and practice jumps and spins in isolation. On the days that there are fewer than 10 skaters, I can pretty much do anything I want, including figures and full-rink spiral sequence with change of edge in the middle and backward spirals -- things I can't really do on a busy freestyle either. Or run through a program without music.

One guy I was talking to at the adult session the other week mentioned that his son is taking group lessons and is frustrated by not having as nice a session to practice on.

Other (all-ages) weekday daytime publics, or the earlier morning Sunday public, can be even emptier except when there are school groups attending in which case they can be as crowded as weekend and after-school/evening sessions. And of course, most kids can't regularly get to the sessions during school hours. But when they can get to those sessions on the days they're pretty empty, they should be good for practicing most skills.

I'd much rather practice on a crowded freestyle than a crowded public session. But when I can get to the empty lunchtime sessions it can be worth my while to pay public session price even for half an hour compared to almost twice as much for 45 or 60 minutes of freestyle.

For skaters who can't practice during the school day or work day and who need to practice for their basic skills or low freestyle classes and aren't ready to practice on freestyle sessions, it would be best to have some special practice sessions designated for those levels. "Low freestyle" or "group lesson practice" session. At least twice a week at different kinds of times.

None, and I think another part of the problem is that at most rinks the guards are high-school kids. It's got to be intimidating when you're sixteen years old to be in a position where some kids won't listen to you and now you have to go ask parents to discipline their kids. Or when there's kids from your school skating too fast, and you're supposed to go tell a kid from your algebra class he has to slow down. I wish more rinks hired adults as monitors, but I suppose at a lot of rinks an adult who skates well enough to monitor can probably make more $$ helping with learn-to-skate.

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Shae-Lynn and Victor: We knew you were champions, and on 3/28/03 the whole WORLD found out! Thank you for twelve wonderful years!

Most rinks cannot afford to have overly specialized sessions b/c there would not be enough ppl on the ice to make it profitable. Most FS sessions I have encountered are mixed levels or "open FS". However, I work in one rink where part of the ice is left for practice during grp lessons. Kids can skate there before or after their 1/2 hr lesson. It makes the grp lessons at this rink a very good deal b/c each lesson comes w 30 min of practice time. They also throw in 3 public session passes.

As for rink guards...How many have you seen that are more trouble than they are worth? I've seen many who use the session as a time to practice hockey skating. Of course, not all are like this, but I have seen it many times.

Kay

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I'm at a rink where figure skating is banned from public ice, that's spins, jumps and spirals. I've heard 3-turns classified as spins one time, but normally they're quite sensible about these things.
The only way you get to do figure skating is if a) the rink is quiet and the stewards will then turn a blind eye. If you're in lesson and are not in the barriered off bit of the ice the no figure skating rules still apply although I guess if your coach asks you to do the spiral it's not quite so likely that you're going to get told off as they'll be told off first.

I don't think this is done to cause more people to do patch ice as they just say it's health and safety (then why not switch the lights ON during the evening public sessions as it's nice to be able to see the person in front of you BEFORE you skate into them).

Anyway, what gets me is that patch ice apparently has levels but these aren't consistently applied. Quite often lower level skaters are on patch sessions which are not appropriate for them and it causes chaos. It bugs me as I've been told I can't have lessons on those sessions even thought I am of the required standard because I'm too old (since when did age have anything to do with skating ability and I'm not THAT old), but others get away with it.
But I've come to the conclusion that's just the way rink rules work. They apply to some of us and others do as they please. I'm just glad that I can practice on public ice one evening a week, because technically I'm behind the cones which is "lesson ice" even thought I'm not in lesson as I go to the group lesson earlier in the evening. The coach is very nice in not kicking us out of the "lesson ice" and the stewards ignore the regulars in there and kick out the odd public skater who ventures in.

At our rink you can only use the patch ice (freestyle) if you are having lessons from a coach who works at the rink so if no coach= no patch access. If you cant figure skate on public either I guess you're pretty much stuffed!

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Level one Field Moves......PASSED 05.06.08
Level one Free dance.....PASSED 02.10.08

GOALS FOR 2009

• Level One Compulsary dances.......PASSED 19.02.09
• Level One Elements.....................PASSED 10.07.09
• Level Two Free dance.................PASSED 19.02.09
• Level One Free...........................
• Level Two compulsory dances.......

Loving it, Loving it, Loving it!!!!!

Wow!!! I just read all of the posts and the rules are all so confusing to me. This is why I skate the morning Freestyle session. There aren't a lot of skaters on the ice and the morning session has a reduced price. The only time I skate publics is when my family wants to go skating and most of the time I am too busy teaching them the basics to consider doing any advanced stuff.


BlackManSkating

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Proud to be one of the few black men out on the ice

Goals
Pass my Silver Moves Test
Finish Choreography for Silver Program
Land a Clean Double Toe and Double Lutz
Work on Double Axel and Rockers
Speed up back Camel

I've always skated on a lot of public sessions. It's much cheaper! However, I do limit myself based on the number of people present and the general traffic on the session. I'll do pretty much anything on daytime publics because they rarely have more than 1-5 people on them and that includes me. On weekends, I might play around with spins in the opposite direction or a bit of footwork, but my rink is definitely way too crowded for camels and spirals!

My current rink actually encourages coaches to use publics for LTS lessons in the center; it's great advertising! However, there aren't any rink guards, and the middle quickly becomes crowded with chatting teenagers and parents with toddlers that can barely stand. It's not ideal for lessons, but for people who can't make weekday afternoon practice or early Saturday morning practice, it's the only choice.

It is inconsistently applied, so if you are keen then it's worth asking the head coach if you can go on patch to do dance. You should certainly be allowed on if you are having a lesson with a coach, as I have seen even the previous head coach (who brought in the rule in the first place ) do this with his pupils. The whole reason it was brought in to begin with was, I believe, partly to do with wanting less people on the ice when one of his top level skaters was practising. This skater is no longer around, so they may be more open to changing the rule - even if only for the 9.30-10.30 session which is mostly adults. This patch only came in to being because of adult pressure (got the ice cut changed from 10am before public session to 9am so we get an hour of lovely ice from 9.30-10.30) so I personally think all adults should be allowed on it!

AFAIK our rink has always allowed both practising and lessons on public ice. If they didn't our coaches wouldn't make much money. Usually there is a bit coned off for lessons but after the LTS courses they gave cheap rates to those who stayed on for the public session afterwards and encouraged it even on a busy weekend. You rarely got more than a few single jumps and basic spins but a friend's daughter had lessons on public sessions for years and used to run her programme through on a Saturday morning and was adept at finding space to land her axel despite crowds.

The rink guards get to know who the regulars are and the informal rules seem to work in that we figure skaters know not to practice camels or back spirals if it's busy.

They don't cone off the middle though - they usually do one end or the other so the poor public, if they are not very good, find they have to cross the open expanse of the rink rather than clinging to the side all the way round.

I've often thought it would be nice to have a "beginner's section" at one end of the rink where the wallhuggers and newbies could feel safe.

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I thought that's what the walls are for?

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Yeah, but it's like playing on the shoulder of a highway, isn't it? A safety zone for tots and tottering skaters would be nice.

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I think there needs to be a special lane for those who think they're hotshot skaters but actually have no skill or control whatsoever. We could just call it the "Testosterone lane" and have barriers on both sides of that lane, leaving the inside for the figure skaters and the outside wall for the wall-huggers.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

"Hi, I just wanted to respond by saying first,that I don't know if this counts or not. But at Newington Ice Arena were they also hold Hockey. It says on the Public Skating flyer for each month that Private lessons are not allowed during Public Skate times. The only thing a Parent during that time did for me was hold me up. As I'm not used to Hockey Skates. As far as Figure Skating during it there gos. I'm not really sure about the policy. But I do know that at least for the LTS.= Learn To Skate Program they cone off sec's. of the ice according to either level or the Freeskate half of the Program.

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FSWer

I've seen adults do this and wondered why the heck they would get right in the middle with the littlest and most vulnerable skaters where the other kids are practicing spins. At least you've answered that question.

My daughter takes private lessons on a public session that is so crowded I don't even feel comfortable going out on the ice myself. Somehow she and her coach make it work, but since I can go to sessions mid-morning when the ice is nearly deserted, it's not worth my time.

Yeah, and unfortunately that "special lane" was right along the wall tonight. One guy literally went and skated right into me and grab hold of me as to hoping that I would be a strong as a wall but was literally dragging me down along with him. Lucky for me, I WAS strong enough to hold up him. (And BTW, the guy is at least 5' 8" and a bit overweight too. Imagine skinny little 'ol me holding HIM up!!! The gym workout and all the years skating must be good enough for something, huh? )

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

yeah that's my "favourite". When they don't know how to stop and just grab on to anybody who looks like they won't let them fall and figure they'll excuse themselves later. Do they even realise some of us have injuries?!

I know!!!! Beginning, never skated before adults too. I saw a ton of this on Sunday at my practice rink.

This particular session is anything goes but I personally love it because it's usually not that crowded and ends up more like a freestyle. But it gets a little crazy. At this public session we've got one juniors skater doing doubles (though this skater is really the most gracious, careful high level skater I've ever seen and aborts every move if anyone is near her jump area). At least five high level kids who practice camels. One high level adult who does her silver program at top speed. Various hockey guys doing drills. Me trying...whatever (no danger of camels, there). LTS tiny kids. The general public hugging the boards.

I have no idea why I've never seen a collision...the middle isn't coned off and we don't really have a skate guard per se, but one of the coaches is usually on the ice giving lessons and she scolds people when they need it

Anyway it amazed me last Sunday when I saw various people going to the middle to learn how to skate forward right next to kids doing camels. Why, just why?

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Revised Official 2010 Goals checklist
Skate __
New boots __
(lowering the bar for 2010 as I haven't skated in a year)