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View Full Version : Difference between 1/2" and 7/16"?


icestalker
05-22-2010, 07:00 PM
I might be changing from a 1/2" ROH to a 7/16" sometime in the near future. 7/16" is deeper and grabbier, right? But since 7/16" is pretty close to 1/2", is there even any difference?

In my patch figures class it seems like I skid a bit on the circles sometimes, especially when going fast, would a deeper ROH resolve that? Also I don't always feel secure in sit spin entries. What about spirals? Do deeper ROHs hurt or help for spin entries/spirals? And everything, really, how deeper ROHs affect jump takeoffs and landings, turns, crossovers, stops, and the spinning part of a spin?

Thanks in advance.

aussieskater
05-22-2010, 07:29 PM
You're right - it doesn't sound much, but is significant as a percentage - almost 15% deeper.

Clarice
05-22-2010, 07:31 PM
For figures you want a shallower hollow, not deeper. The idea is that the shallower hollow makes the edges farther apart, so it's easier to get on a true edge. I'm currently working on my first test, and was complaining to my dance coach that my back edges are still leaving double tracings. He suggested that if I switched to my patch blades to practice figures I would find things a lot easier.

You might want a deeper hollow for your free skating moves, I don't know. My daughter likes hers deeper than most. But it will make figures harder.

icestalker
05-22-2010, 08:18 PM
Is it as significant while skating, though?

For figures you want a shallower hollow, not deeper. The idea is that the shallower hollow makes the edges farther apart, so it's easier to get on a true edge. I'm currently working on my first test, and was complaining to my dance coach that my back edges are still leaving double tracings. He suggested that if I switched to my patch blades to practice figures I would find things a lot easier.

You might want a deeper hollow for your free skating moves, I don't know. My daughter likes hers deeper than most. But it will make figures harder.

I'm not really concerned about double tracings or anything, nor do I test figures. I just have that class as a supplement to free skating. The coaches just want us to have a smooth, controlled edge that we can hold around the circle. Do you mean it would make it harder to have single tracings or to actually hold the edge?

AgnesNitt
05-22-2010, 09:49 PM
I'm interested in ROH because at one point I was working up to 1" ROH, so I've had a couple of long conversations with various people on the topic, I'll try to bring together what I've been told.

ROH is dependent on several things a. experience of the skater, b. type of ice (hockey vs figure skate) c. skater interest (which today is usually freestyle)

A beginner will almost always have an ROH of 1/2 " (8/16's)
A lower fraction (down to 3/8 is the lowest I've heard of) is for skaters doing freestyle. 3/8 seems to be typical for freestyle on hockey ice.

'Flatter' ROH. fractions greater than 1/2" is seldom seen anymore except for figures geeks (moi). At one point I was at 9/16th preparing to work up to 3/4' a 16th at a time. Then I broke an ankle.

I was told that if you have a big ROH for figures, if you want grippy you'll have to get sharpened more often (this was from someone with figures experience in competition)

I don't know if thinking about ROH as being 'deeper' is a good way to think about it. I prefer to think about comparing ROH as 'closer' and 'further' based on the distance between the edges. The wider apart they are, the more glide you're supposed to have.

Also, ROH is not the only measure, there's two more. First some kind of angle in the sharpening that can affect the 'bite' of the edge, and at this point I hope some experienced skater will step in and take over cause for the life of me I can't remember what the third thing is. Mitch?

icestalker
05-23-2010, 08:43 AM
I'm interested in ROH because at one point I was working up to 1" ROH, so I've had a couple of long conversations with various people on the topic, I'll try to bring together what I've been told.

ROH is dependent on several things a. experience of the skater, b. type of ice (hockey vs figure skate) c. skater interest (which today is usually freestyle)

A beginner will almost always have an ROH of 1/2 " (8/16's)
A lower fraction (down to 3/8 is the lowest I've heard of) is for skaters doing freestyle. 3/8 seems to be typical for freestyle on hockey ice.

'Flatter' ROH. fractions greater than 1/2" is seldom seen anymore except for figures geeks (moi). At one point I was at 9/16th preparing to work up to 3/4' a 16th at a time. Then I broke an ankle.

I was told that if you have a big ROH for figures, if you want grippy you'll have to get sharpened more often (this was from someone with figures experience in competition)

I don't know if thinking about ROH as being 'deeper' is a good way to think about it. I prefer to think about comparing ROH as 'closer' and 'further' based on the distance between the edges. The wider apart they are, the more glide you're supposed to have.

Also, ROH is not the only measure, there's two more. First some kind of angle in the sharpening that can affect the 'bite' of the edge, and at this point I hope some experienced skater will step in and take over cause for the life of me I can't remember what the third thing is. Mitch?

Hmm, both hockey and figure skaters skate on the ice here. I went to a different rink once and it sounded hollow when I stepped on it, when I tapped my blade on it sounded kind of like what a high heel would sound like tapping down a hallway, but a little different. It also felt harder. I believe that was hockey ice, seeing as my home rink has softer ice and doesn't make hollow tappy sounds when you skate on it. I also could not spin whatsoever on the hard ice at the other rink, but I was able to easily spin when I went back and skated at home rink. When I tried to spin I rocked from toepick to heel and traveled quite badly, but I could spin perfectly fine at home rink. 8O

I've read about bite angle before.. hmm.. I'm pretty sure my blades would be 0.15" wide, which would give them a bite angle of 9 degrees. Not that I know what that means as compared to eight or ten degrees.

AgnesNitt
05-23-2010, 09:02 AM
Hmm, both hockey and figure skaters skate on the ice here. I went to a different rink once and it sounded hollow when I stepped on it, when I tapped my blade on it sounded kind of like what a high heel would sound like tapping down a hallway, but a little different. It also felt harder. I believe that was hockey ice, seeing as my home rink has softer ice and doesn't make hollow tappy sounds when you skate on it. I also could not spin whatsoever on the hard ice at the other rink, but I was able to easily spin when I went back and skated at home rink. When I tried to spin I rocked from toepick to heel and traveled quite badly, but I could spin perfectly fine at home rink. 8O


Hockey is harder because it's a couple of degrees colder than figure skating ice, hence the tappy sound.
According to "how things work (http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/ice-rink4.htm)"
"Figure skaters and hockey skaters have different ideas of what good ice and bad ice are. Figure skaters prefer an ice temperature of 26 to 28 F. Ice in that temperature range is softer, so it grips the skate edges better. It is also less likely to shatter under the impact of jumps. Hockey players, though, prefer colder, harder ice. With many skaters on the ice simultaneously, it's easy for the ice surface to get chewed up at the temperatures preferred by figure skaters. For hockey games, the top of the ice is usually kept at 24 to 26 F. Ice that's too warm might cause players to lose their edge during a crucial play, but ice that's too cold may chip too readily."

icedancer2
05-23-2010, 12:22 PM
I skate at all 4 rinks in my area and each one has their own particular ice - one is a mall rink where there is NO hockey and the other 3 have hockey. Each one feels different on any given day - I think some of it has to do with the outside temperature, etc.

In any case, when I spoke with a hockey player about why they like the ice hard, he replied, "Because the puck moves faster on hard ice." He didn't think it had anything to do with how the blade felt on the ice.

Just my 2 cents.

I would say to the OP that you should try a 1/2 inch grind and see what you think.

I recently had my blades changed from 7/16 "deep" to 7/16 "light" (my sharpeners words not mine - he said that was "official" language LOL - I am guessing now from reading this discussion that it had something to do with the bite angle.

It made a HUGE difference with how I felt on the ice.

icestalker
05-23-2010, 03:18 PM
I skate at all 4 rinks in my area and each one has their own particular ice - one is a mall rink where there is NO hockey and the other 3 have hockey. Each one feels different on any given day - I think some of it has to do with the outside temperature, etc.

In any case, when I spoke with a hockey player about why they like the ice hard, he replied, "Because the puck moves faster on hard ice." He didn't think it had anything to do with how the blade felt on the ice.

Just my 2 cents.

I would say to the OP that you should try a 1/2 inch grind and see what you think.

I recently had my blades changed from 7/16 "deep" to 7/16 "light" (my sharpeners words not mine - he said that was "official" language LOL - I am guessing now from reading this discussion that it had something to do with the bite angle.

It made a HUGE difference with how I felt on the ice.

I do feel a tiny bit of difference in winter, summer, and condition of the ice (glassy vs. chewed up), but my home rink has never made tappy sounds. The hockey team here is a big deal, but the freestyle skaters are also a big deal, a worlds champion skates here, and the freestyle schedule is for hours and hours each day, and you regularly see double and triple jumpers in freestyle. So I don't know if they have hockey ice, figure ice, or a compromise.

I currently have a 1/2" actually, and have for the last few months, I have no clue what the hollow was on my old skates before that. But it was very hard to stop on the 1/2" for a while, I would fall on my butt every time I stopped and started avoiding stopping, and just turned backwards and rode up on my picks to stop or ran into the wall. Though I eventually made myself learn to stop. I would guess that a beginner hollow was put on my old skates.
I just want to try a 7/16" and see how I do, since it seems like mostly beginners have 1/2", 7/16" must offer some advantage to freestyle skaters..

What's the difference between deep and light? I would guess that you liked light better? Would the sharpener at my rink understand me if I said 7/16" light? :frus: I am very careful with who sharpens my skates since one of them took the hollow completely off my old skates, I slid around in public-skate and asked the instructor what was wrong with my skates cuz I had just sharpened them, she ran her finger down it and eyed it and goes, "8O The hollow is gone 8O!" So I had been skating on a completely flat blade. It hurts to imagine how much metal had been taken off of them.
Oh, and do sharpeners actually listen when you instruct them what hollow to put on? My new blades (not mounted yet) have a factory hollow of 7/16" so even if they normally don't listen I'd think they'd just sharpen whatever hollow was already on the blade. I think my new skates are due for a sharpening soon, it's been 17 hours of skating of which two were on previously mentioned hard ice, and I was initially planning to mount new blades when the sharpening ran out on these.. Not sure if they're dulling yet though I just thought that I might be slipping a bit on spin entrances. Though now I am too intimidated by the new blades to want to put them on anytime soon. I am afraid of the toepicks, not because of size, but because they're cross-cut. 8O

Hmm, I've been rambling and perhaps threadjacking my own thread. :oops:

sexyskates
05-23-2010, 05:01 PM
Watch out about making the hollow deeper - it's harder to spin that way. My sharpener had to gradually wean me off my deep hollow - I liked it grippy for landing jumps, and felt "slippage" when I first tried a shallower hollow. My spins were truly awful on deep hollows, and my coach felt that if I bent my knees more and leaned into my edges, I should not need such deep hollows. I am now happy with 1/2 inch, which is supposedly the norm for freestyle (and can spin!).

icestalker
05-23-2010, 05:09 PM
Watch out about making the hollow deeper - it's harder to spin that way. My sharpener had to gradually wean me off my deep hollow - I liked it grippy for landing jumps, and felt "slippage" when I first tried a shallower hollow. My spins were truly awful on deep hollows, and my coach felt that if I bent my knees more and leaned into my edges, I should not need such deep hollows. I am now happy with 1/2 inch, which is supposedly the norm for freestyle (and can spin!).

It's harder to spin? Really? I thought it'd be easier, besides the heel perhaps catching the edge, and I have 7' rockers which are easiest to spin on. Does anyone else have trouble spinning on 7/16"? My spins were pretty bad when I first got the 1/2" hollow but I adjusted pretty quickly, and they became much better than ever before in a very short time frame.

RachelSk8er
05-23-2010, 05:56 PM
This is something that tends to be a personal thing that skaters have to play with.

I used to keep mine really, really shallow, but recently switched blades and went from 1/2 to 7/16. (At one point, about 10 yrs ago, I was closer to 5/8, no clue how I used to skate on that).

Going deeper does make it a little harder to spin on initially. I thought that spinning on a shallower hollow was much more forgiving, especially on back scratches and back sits. But it's really just an adjustment like any other (changing boots, changing to a different rocker, different toepicks, etc), and it doesn't take too long to get used to. It does make jump take-offs and landings easier right away because the blades grip the ice better.

icestalker
05-23-2010, 07:10 PM
Going deeper does make it a little harder to spin on initially. I thought that spinning on a shallower hollow was much more forgiving, especially on back scratches and back sits. But it's really just an adjustment like any other (changing boots, changing to a different rocker, different toepicks, etc), and it doesn't take too long to get used to. It does make jump take-offs and landings easier right away because the blades grip the ice better.

I can use the jump security. I've just recently done a salchow (before I would three-turn and sit on the backward edge for quite a long time, and if I attempted to jump it would be a sideways hop) and my favorite coach (that I would like to have privates with) hasn't seen it yet, and last time she worked with me on it I, of course, utterly failed, much to her annoyance. I've been doing it from back crossovers now and sometimes I slip on the take-off, and sometimes the landing is shaky, and I'd like to get it perfect before my coach has me work on it with her again.

I'm usually pretty good at adjusting spins. The first day I skated on a 1/2" I couldn't spin, I'd loop once and stop, but the second day I had pretty good spins. As mentioned before I slip on sit spin entries sometimes so hopefully a grippier edge would fix that.
It's not dullness either, I'm pretty good at knowing when my blade's dull, because I am incredibly picky about my blades being sharp. Comes from ten months of skating on dull rentals. 8O Now, if my blades are dull, I lag through the lesson and get off the ice when the 15min free time comes. Bad spirit, I know, but I HATE dull blades. I can't do anything on them. Does 7/16" hold a sharpening better? I've heard that shallower blades have to be sharpened more often?

Query
05-23-2010, 11:38 PM
I have heard deep used in the context of grinding more than you would otherwise have to, to eliminate nicks. If I am right in that interpretation, you only need deep if there are significant nicks, probably because you or someone has touched blade with blade. Otherwise you should use light to make the blade last longer.

My impression is that small nicks have very little effect on skating. But if you feel a discontinuity as the blade passes a nick, you might want to go a little deeper.

Hockey skaters are more aggressive, and blade sometimes hits blade hard. They might get bigger nicks that would noticeably affect the way they skate, so they might want a sharpener to go deeper.

But my interpretation of your sharpeners "deep" and "light" may be different than the sharpener's.

Why not ask the sharpener??

RachelSk8er
05-24-2010, 07:32 AM
I'm usually pretty good at adjusting spins. The first day I skated on a 1/2" I couldn't spin, I'd loop once and stop, but the second day I had pretty good spins. As mentioned before I slip on sit spin entries sometimes so hopefully a grippier edge would fix that.
It's not dullness either, I'm pretty good at knowing when my blade's dull, because I am incredibly picky about my blades being sharp. Comes from ten months of skating on dull rentals. 8O Now, if my blades are dull, I lag through the lesson and get off the ice when the 15min free time comes. Bad spirit, I know, but I HATE dull blades. I can't do anything on them. Does 7/16" hold a sharpening better? I've heard that shallower blades have to be sharpened more often?

Again, how long a skate will hold a sharpening is another thing that comes down to multiple factors--hardness of the ice you're on, brand of the blades, personal preference, money (as in "do I want to pay $12 to sharpen this week or can I get by another week?") I actually sharpen my 7/16 blades more frequently than my 1/2 blades, but they are a different brand (MK versus Ultima--Ultimas are known for holding sharpenings a little longer).

If you feel like you have a spot that's not catching, it might be the alignment/mounting, and not the sharpening. (The blade may be slightly crooked, the sole might not be 100% level, etc.) Have your coach look at this next time you're in a lesson and explain what/where the problems are. If he/she notices anything, take them to your skate shop to have them looked at and adjusted.

icestalker
05-24-2010, 08:48 AM
If you feel like you have a spot that's not catching, it might be the alignment/mounting, and not the sharpening. (The blade may be slightly crooked, the sole might not be 100% level, etc.) Have your coach look at this next time you're in a lesson and explain what/where the problems are. If he/she notices anything, take them to your skate shop to have them looked at and adjusted.

The alignment's fine, any problem I have is the same problem I had on my old skates, such as the sit spin entry. I'm also hypersensitive to crooked blades, again from skating on rentals for ten months, I ran into quite a few skates that had crooked blades or loose blades or blades that were mounted on a diagonal rather than straight. Could feel it the instant I stepped on the ice. So I'm pretty sure I'd know if something were wrong with the blade. I'd love to blame spin entries on the blade, however, it's me :lol:

Query
05-24-2010, 01:31 PM
Again, how long a skate will hold a sharpening is another thing that comes down to multiple factors

As a general rule, smaller ROH sharpenings don't last as long.

My personal experience is that blade care makes a big difference.

If you want your sharpenings, and your blades, to last longer:

1. Rust is bad. Wipe blades dry after use. If you won't use blades for several days, wipe them with a little oil.

2. Ventilation is good. Keep your blades in Soakers, or other breathable blade covers. Do not keep skates inside a bag or trunk.

3. Dirt and pollen are bad. Skate indoors.

4. Do not walk in your skates off ice - at all. After putting them on, use blade covers to protect them when you walk to and from the ice. If you want to preserve Soaker life, use the more durable hard shell covers to walk that short distance. Or carefully walk on the toe picks.

5. Hand sharpening does not extend sharpening life - done the ultrasharp way I like (http://mgrunes.com/boots/BootBlade.html), it lasts less long, but usually wastes less metal and blade life, partly because you will be careful with your own blades. Hand sharpening is cheaper than paying a pro and you don't have to waste time dealing with the pro. Done right, with the right tools, the sharpening can be just as good. I don't think kids should play with sharp blades too much, but, since the O.P. says she works with hazardous materials like shoveling pig poop, she has perhaps learned to be careful.

6. Deeper sharpenings, in the meaning I listed a few posts ago in this thread, greatly reduces the lifetime of the blades.

icestalker
05-24-2010, 02:22 PM
As a general rule, smaller ROH sharpenings don't last as long.

My personal experience is that blade care makes a big difference.

If you want your sharpenings, and your blades, to last longer:

1. Rust is bad. Wipe blades dry after use. If you won't use blades for several days, wipe them with a little oil.

2. Ventilation is good. Keep your blades in Soakers, or other breathable blade covers. Do not keep skates inside a bag or trunk.

3. Dirt and pollen are bad. Skate indoors.

4. Do not walk in your skates off ice - at all. After putting them on, use blade covers to protect them when you walk to and from the ice. If you want to preserve Soaker life, use the more durable hard shell covers to walk that short distance. Or carefully walk on the toe picks.

5. Hand sharpening does not extend sharpening life - done the ultrasharp way I like (http://mgrunes.com/boots/BootBlade.html), it lasts less long, but usually wastes less metal and blade life, partly because you will be careful with your own blades. Hand sharpening is cheaper than paying a pro and you don't have to waste time dealing with the pro. Done right, with the right tools, the sharpening can be just as good. I don't think kids should play with sharp blades too much, but, since the O.P. says she works with hazardous materials like shoveling pig poop, she has perhaps learned to be careful.

6. Deeper sharpenings, in the meaning I listed a few posts ago in this thread, greatly reduces the lifetime of the blades.

I always do 1, 3, and 4, except for the oil part. They air out on their side at home and though people give me strange looks when I forget my guards and tiptoe across the rink, I'd rather do that than speed dulling of the blade or perhaps step on something that will damage the blade. Though I am losing the battle with rust on my current Club 2000s. I am constantly taking surface rust off with citrus juice, usually about every two-three weeks. I just chalk it up to the blades not being that good quality. The rust is gone after I take it off but it appears again a few weeks later :frus: even with terrycloth soakers and them airing out at home on their side so the blade is fully exposed and allowed to dry.

5/6
I don't know if I'd call pig poop hazardous.. :lol: of course, I have to be careful around both horses and pigs, pigs sometimes imitate a bulldozer, and horses sometimes decide that they want you to carry them when they see something scary. :roll:
Sharp blades are a liability with me. I constantly have scratches on my arms from brushing them against the toepick or edge while the skates are in my lap, being wiped off. I'm not going to go the hand sharpening route, I'm just not good with things that require hand precision. I have never cut myself using steak knives, hoof picks, and other sharp items, but my current blades seem to enjoy attacking me every time I have them in my lap.
Of course, preventing nicks to prevent deep sharpenings is another reason to wear hard guards. And I very rarely step on peoples' blades on-ice, because of my wonderfully small class. I did once but saw no visible nick on the blade..

Perhaps I should buy a sharpening machine and have somebody teach my dad to sharpen. He works with metals quite a bit where hand precision is required. Of course, sharpening machines are out of my budget. 8O

RachelSk8er
05-24-2010, 04:34 PM
As a general rule, smaller ROH sharpenings don't last as long.



Depends on the brand (and thus the composition of the blade), too. I was going about 2 weeks longer between sharpenings on my Ultimas at a 1/2" hollow than I do on my MK Gold Stars on a 7/16".

icestalker
05-24-2010, 06:01 PM
Depends on the brand (and thus the composition of the blade), too. I was going about 2 weeks longer between sharpenings on my Ultimas at a 1/2" hollow than I do on my MK Gold Stars on a 7/16".

I did look at the Ultimas because of their sharpening length when buying my blade. But, they all had 8' rockers. I need an 8' rocker like I need a hole in my head. CorAces are supposed to be good at holding sharpenings, though not as long as Ultimas.

icedancer2
05-24-2010, 06:28 PM
I did look at the Ultimas because of their sharpening length when buying my blade. But, they all had 8' rockers. I need an 8' rocker like I need a hole in my head. CorAces are supposed to be good at holding sharpenings, though not as long as Ultimas.

what blade are you currently in? I've lost track of this thread.

sk8tmum
05-24-2010, 07:13 PM
I did look at the Ultimas because of their sharpening length when buying my blade. But, they all had 8' rockers. I need an 8' rocker like I need a hole in my head. CorAces are supposed to be good at holding sharpenings, though not as long as Ultimas.

Check other threads. Ultimas have "clones" of all of the Wilson blades; they have "clones" of the Ace, Comet, etc. Actually ... the weird looking Lite blades are re-engineered Aces in terms of rocker and toepick; the Legacy is the CoroAce clone ... We've found the Ultimas to be phenomenal in terms of holding an edge.

As to the "depth" of your grind: do you have access to a good sharpener. Our sharpener discusses the "grind" with our skaters; he recommends changes to the grind based on their skating level, etc, and personal preferences.

sk8tmum
05-24-2010, 07:17 PM
Another "tip" to preserve sharpenings: if you are using hard guards, clean them out regularly (we put ours in the dishwasher). Stuff accumulates in the grooves, then, when you put them on, you grind the "stuff" against the blade. Absolutely deadly on a nice edge.

We have a chamois in each skate bag: does a great job in drying off the blades, then, once home, blades come OUT of the bag, covers come off, and they are allowed to air dry in a safe, room temperature area. Also helps preserve the boots themselves.

icestalker
05-24-2010, 09:07 PM
what blade are you currently in? I've lost track of this thread.

Club 2000. Which I'm not sure what level they go up to, but I've skated in them 15 hours and they already feel like they might be dulling, which just annoys me, a 15 hour sharpening life is pretty crappy. I skate on softer ice and wear hard guards.
I'm upgrading to CorAce, whether or not I need the blade, because I do not want to mismatch the life of the boot and the life of the blade. My mom insists that I wear out the Clubs first then put CorAces on, but by then the boot will have gotten halfway through its life, so when I need a new boot the blades will only be halfway done, so then I'll have to mount them on the new boots, and then I will need new blades halfway through the new boot's life.
So I want to sync the lives of the boot and blade, if that makes sense, I'll pay less for remounting and prevent a bunch of holes in the leather. However, my mother still insists on me wearing out the Clubs. And since I recently lacquered them she is complaining about how the lacquer seal on the blades will be broken when I mount the Aces, and she wants me to at least wait till I need a new lacquer, which will be months and months.
Can I use silicone caulk to seal the area where blade meets sole?
I don't see why she's so concerned, I bought both skate and blade with my own money, if I make a mistake it's my loss, not hers. She got a benefit out of this, she gets credit reward points out of the hundreds I spent, and she has her eye on a fancy camera that she can get if she has lots of points, and I made quite a large contribution towards that camera. Shouldn't we all be happy?
/rant

Check other threads. Ultimas have "clones" of all of the Wilson blades; they have "clones" of the Ace, Comet, etc. Actually ... the weird looking Lite blades are re-engineered Aces in terms of rocker and toepick; the Legacy is the CoroAce clone ... We've found the Ultimas to be phenomenal in terms of holding an edge.

As to the "depth" of your grind: do you have access to a good sharpener. Our sharpener discusses the "grind" with our skaters; he recommends changes to the grind based on their skating level, etc, and personal preferences.

I love the way the Lites look, a girl at my rink has them, her spirals are absolutely gorgeous purely because of the pretty blade. :lol:
However when i looked at them, ALL their models had 8' rockers, even if it is a clone of the Aces the rocker doesn't match up.
I don't know about my sharpener. He seems decent. My coach recommended a lady but she is never in on Thursday mornings and I will only sharpen on Thursdays so I can skate on the blade in public and verify that a proper sharpening has been done.

Another "tip" to preserve sharpenings: if you are using hard guards, clean them out regularly (we put ours in the dishwasher). Stuff accumulates in the grooves, then, when you put them on, you grind the "stuff" against the blade. Absolutely deadly on a nice edge.

We have a chamois in each skate bag: does a great job in drying off the blades, then, once home, blades come OUT of the bag, covers come off, and they are allowed to air dry in a safe, room temperature area. Also helps preserve the boots themselves.

Thanks! Didn't think of washing them before. I also air dry in a safe area, though I did not bother to buy a chamois.

Kim to the Max
05-24-2010, 09:44 PM
My mom insists that I wear out the Clubs first then put CorAces on, but by then the boot will have gotten halfway through its life, so when I need a new boot the blades will only be halfway done, so then I'll have to mount them on the new boots, and then I will need new blades halfway through the new boot's life.
<snip>

And since I recently lacquered them she is complaining about how the lacquer seal on the blades will be broken when I mount the Aces, and she wants me to at least wait till I need a new lacquer, which will be months and months.

Okay, 2 things. First, the life of boots doesn't always match up with the life of blades...I had my previous boots for about 18 months and had gotten the boots and new Pattern 99s at the same time (got them both at the same time because it happened that they were both shot at the same time). When I got my current pair of boots (same boots, just new :) ), the old blades went on the boots, and I'm expecting to not have to replace the blades until these boots go kaput in about another year (or there abouts...18 months was pushing it on the old boots). So, know that you can use your blades longer than 1 pair of boots, just as long as there is still life left on the blades.

Second, folks have moved away from lacquering the bottoms of their skates because if the hard lacquer cracks (as it does), moisture will seep in and you cannot get it out. It is better to use Sno-Seal to seal the bottoms of the boots. The beeswax will repel the moisture and you can reapply as needed. I will only do lacquer at the very end of the life of a pair of boots and if I want to spruce them up (I will put glitter in the laquer to make my ratty boots look a little funky :) ), but I will only do that then.

Good luck!! I remember having to buy my first pair of boots...it was painful, but satisfying (I was between my first and second years of college), and now I pay for everything as an adult, so I understand how much things really cost...now if only I could get that message across to the kids I skate with....hmmmmm......:roll:

RachelSk8er
05-25-2010, 08:11 AM
There is no reason to worry about trying to match the life of your boot and your blade. Any reputable professional skate technician can fill holes in the soles if you have to change blades or have a blade moved as long as you properly care for your skates (dry them off, don't leave them in the hot car, etc).

Given your $$ situation, it may be easier for you to try and stagger because it's cheaper to buy either new blades or new boots versus both at the same time (Coronation Ace are reasonably priced and will take you far even if you replace them with the same type of blade when they run out of life, but you'll inevitably need a siffer and thus more expensive boot down the road as your skating progresses.) I've pretty much always staggered boots and blades for that very reason (plus, when your boots are broken down but your blades still have plenty of life, or vice-versa, there is no reason to spend money you don't need to spend).

icestalker
05-25-2010, 11:53 AM
Well, I want to match it as closely as possible. If I remount two blades on the same boot with every boot I have, Mom won't be happy, and I can guarantee that she will stop paying for remounts. That'll be another expense for me to shoulder. And I didn't get boot nor blade at the pro-shop (I don't know if they even carry blades, and they had a pair of the Medallions for sale, but about eight sizes too small), I don't even know if the pro shop does mounting, I'm going to ask the coaches and the other skaters where they mount their blades and if the pro shop mounts, if they can be trusted not to screw it up.

It's the same amount of money either way, buying them at separate times frankly won't make a difference. I just think it's easier to mount one pair of blades and be done with it, even if their lives don't quite match up. If there's no sharpenings left on the blade and I sharpened them three weeks ago, then it really is not worth it to remount, though if there is half of the sharpenings left and the blade is still adequate for my level, then I guess I will be remounting. But I prefer to mount the Aces now for that reason and because I'll be spending more on sharpening in the long run because apparently Clubs have an 15 hour sharpening life. And even though the blade on there now is an entry level blade, it's still a stock blade, and really isn't that high quality (as evidenced by the too frequent sharpening and tendency to rust. I'm done with dealing with it, I am sick of taking rust off of it every two weeks and I do not want to deal with sharpening it so often, it is a pain to wait for the shop to open, and sharpen, I have missed half of public-skate by the time they are done. And actually, the blades on my old skates lasted a good deal longer in a sharpening than Clubs, and they were a completely unknown recreational blade, GR-4, I believe.) I told my mom that I could seal the blade to the sole with silicone sealant (like Bill_S does), so she's only halfway satisfied. There is plenty of silicone sealant in my father's junk shop :lol:

Really? Everyone- I repeat everyone- including the coaches- uses lacquer at my rink. A parent lacquers them for $25. When I got the boots I asked an instructor about Sno-seal and she said it had to be applied too often, get them lacquered, etc. etc. Is it too late?

Sessy
05-25-2010, 12:13 PM
Mounting new blades only costs 10 euro around here (it's free if you bought the blades or boots at the store) and it's a one-time expense. It takes the pro store like only a few minutes to do, I mean they align the blades with the sole properly, put in a few screws, tell you to go skate in them, if it doesn't feel right they move them a bit, once everything's all right they put in a few more screws and c'est ca. It's not rocket science. They use screws from the hardware store, lol.

If your skating is not suffering due to too low level a blade, I'd agree with your mom on the wearing our your blades thing. Blades are a terrible thing to waste, they're so expensive. Nothing wrong with re-mounting blades to boots, I did it too, I first got new blades (it was necessary), then new boots when I could afford em. The only reason I needed new blades first is because my old ones were bent, though. Usually people break down boots before they're through their blades.

sk8tmum
05-25-2010, 12:39 PM
are your feet still growing?

If your feet are growing, then, there is a chance that you may need a different blade size when you change boots; also, you may need a different blade size if you change brand of boot.

Thus, saving your blades may not work ... if they are too small (or even, weirdly enough, too big) - on the next boots. A friend's daughter, with no change in foot size, went from Graf to Klingbeil. The blade size went DOWN as the Klingbeil heel height and boot design and length on her foot in the new boot was shorter front to back!

icestalker
05-25-2010, 02:06 PM
If your skating is not suffering due to too low level a blade, I'd agree with your mom on the wearing our your blades thing. Blades are a terrible thing to waste, they're so expensive. Nothing wrong with re-mounting blades to boots, I did it too, I first got new blades (it was necessary), then new boots when I could afford em. The only reason I needed new blades first is because my old ones were bent, though. Usually people break down boots before they're through their blades.

Those blades are pretty cheap- $50, I think. And the skate/blade combo was $160 altogether, $180 with shipping, and $120 after my mother paid for $60 after she decided to use my old, $60 beginner skates. So basically the Clubs were free, and the boot with a large discount. I just won't deal with a blade that has a 15 hour sharpening life. I finally figured out the level of the blade, Freeskate 4; I can pass everything in 3 except for the backspin, so I'm coming up to 4 pretty shortly here. So I'll be switching the blade in a matter of weeks here.
I wouldn't know if my skating was suffering without trying a better blade. I didn't know that the reason I couldn't do back 3s on the rec blades on the old skates is because of the blade.. got new skates, could magically do a back three, and my spins improved right away, as did waltz threes and spirals. I seem to have lost my clockwise mohawk however.

Actually I just had a great idea: when the PVC soled skates my mother uses wear out, I'll get her to buy a nice leather soled skate for herself and mount the Clubs on them. The Clubs will be the perfect level for her because she isn't going to do much jumping or sit/camel spins, at most she might do scratch spins and advanced footwork which the Clubs will be perfect for. And she will need a higher level skate to have more support and to last longer, I have a feeling she will break down the beginner skates faster than I would've (she weighs 50 lbs more than me.)
Just told her that, she "Mhm'd" and returned to the phone bill. Then she muttered something about tripping over the toepick. Perhaps when she's paying more attention.. :D
Her blades and my blades are both 11' despite us having a half size difference, the soles only differ by a tiny bit so 11' blades fit both sizes of boot. So we just have to find a model that is the same size sole.

are your feet still growing?

If your feet are growing, then, there is a chance that you may need a different blade size when you change boots; also, you may need a different blade size if you change brand of boot.

Thus, saving your blades may not work ... if they are too small (or even, weirdly enough, too big) - on the next boots. A friend's daughter, with no change in foot size, went from Graf to Klingbeil. The blade size went DOWN as the Klingbeil heel height and boot design and length on her foot in the new boot was shorter front to back!

I don't think they're still growing.. the last time I went up a skate size was nearly a year ago. And my old skates are Riedell Women's 10, I actually went down a size and got Women's 9.5.. and they fit perfectly so the old skates must have been a tiny bit big. And I've been buying the same boot/sneaker/flip flop size for years and years.
If they do grow, I will somehow find a way to stunt their growth, because feet growing means a height growth, and I am already too tall for skating. I'm taller than my coach for pete's sake. :frus:
(Don't take me seriously about stunting growth.)

Can models of the same brand differ in sole length? That's another reason I want to put blades on now.. who says they'll fit the next boots? I am planning to stay with the same brand though. My foot is custom made to Riedell (rather than being the other way round), so Jacksons, GAMs, whatever, probably wouldn't fit me nearly as well.

Sessy
05-25-2010, 04:23 PM
Passing down blades is a good idea, imho.

doubletoe
05-25-2010, 05:00 PM
Really? Everyone- I repeat everyone- including the coaches- uses lacquer at my rink. A parent lacquers them for $25. When I got the boots I asked an instructor about Sno-seal and she said it had to be applied too often, get them lacquered, etc. etc. Is it too late?

I second the vote for Sno Seal over lacquer. My first two pairs of boots were lacquered on the bottom by our pro shop guy and I noticed that eventually the lacquer cracked just like nail polish, allowing water to seep into the leather through the cracks. On the second pair, I finally ended up sanding off all of the lacquer with sandpaper (which was a total P.I.T.A.) and re-waterproofing them with Sno-Seal. You really can't re-waterproof the lacquered ones with Sno-Seal when they start to crack, but you can always re-waterproof with Sno-Seal if you don't have the lacquer on them. The Sno-Seal actually gets absorbed by the leather and keeps the water out. I Sno-Seal my boots 2-3 times a year, or whenever I notice the leather sole getting a little darker in spots. It doesn't take long to do.

As for your blade hollow, maybe it's just your current blades, not the ROH that's the problem. Why not start off with 1/2" ROH on the new Coronation Aces, then only switch to 5/16" if the new blades also feel too slippy? Also, based on what you were saying about edges slipping on spin entries and salchow takeoffs, you might want to ask your coach if you are bending your ankles and knees enough on those entrance edges. I know that if I'm not really bending deeply and pressing the ball of the blade into the ice, I'll slip and get a poor entrance/takeoff even with freshly sharpened blades.

icestalker
05-25-2010, 05:18 PM
I second the vote for Sno Seal over lacquer. My first two pairs of boots were lacquered on the bottom by our pro shop guy and I noticed that eventually the lacquer cracked just like nail polish, allowing water to seep into the leather through the cracks. On the second pair, I finally ended up sanding off all of the lacquer with sandpaper (which was a total P.I.T.A.) and re-waterproofing them with Sno-Seal. You really can't re-waterproof the lacquered ones with Sno-Seal when they start to crack, but you can always re-waterproof with Sno-Seal if you don't have the lacquer on them. The Sno-Seal actually gets absorbed by the leather and keeps the water out. I Sno-Seal my boots 2-3 times a year, or whenever I notice the leather sole getting a little darker in spots. It doesn't take long to do.

As for your blade hollow, maybe it's just your current blades, not the ROH that's the problem. Why not start off with 1/2" ROH on the new Coronation Aces, then only switch to 5/16" if the new blades also feel too slippy? Also, based on what you were saying about edges slipping on spin entries and salchow takeoffs, you might want to ask your coach if you are bending your ankles and knees enough on those entrance edges. I know that if I'm not really bending deeply and pressing the ball of the blade into the ice, I'll slip and get a poor entrance/takeoff even with freshly sharpened blades.

Hmm. Well, I'll see what I can do about the lacquer.

Didn't think of body position- as usual, I blame it on the blades :lol:
Strange though since I only slip on sit spin entries, which I have a bent knee anyway. Must be some other error on my part. Like having my butt stuck up in the air. :??

It's probably better to start out with 1/2" anyway, because if the 7/16" feels really weird I might think it's a mounting/alignment issue.

Sessy
05-26-2010, 03:45 PM
Hmm. Well, I'll see what I can do about the lacquer.

Didn't think of body position- as usual, I blame it on the blades :lol:
Strange though since I only slip on sit spin entries, which I have a bent knee anyway. Must be some other error on my part. Like having my butt stuck up in the air. :??


I slip on my spin entrances when my blades aren't sharp enough anymore (but then I like my blades super sharp compared to other people at my level). When's the last time you had em sharpened? :) Another reason I like aces myself, they stay sharp better, it's like the steel is harder or something... Well personally I'm just lyrical about coronation aces in general, frankly. But then, I got my mom to switch to them (they really aren't necessary at her level but she could afford it at the time) and she was too so meh, maybe there's something to that. I found it harder to do quick turns in the aces but the edge quality on them just is really super.

icestalker
05-26-2010, 05:36 PM
I slip on my spin entrances when my blades aren't sharp enough anymore (but then I like my blades super sharp compared to other people at my level). When's the last time you had em sharpened? :) Another reason I like aces myself, they stay sharp better, it's like the steel is harder or something... Well personally I'm just lyrical about coronation aces in general, frankly. But then, I got my mom to switch to them (they really aren't necessary at her level but she could afford it at the time) and she was too so meh, maybe there's something to that. I found it harder to do quick turns in the aces but the edge quality on them just is really super.

I had them sharpened 15 hours of skating ago (about six weeks.) I also like my blades sharp, though my spin entry has always been slippy, though this last Saturday it was slightly worse, I think the blades might be dulling. (yup- after 15 hours, when they should be lasting 20-30 hours.) That was another decision factor in me getting the Aces, is what I read about how nicely they retained a sharp edge because of the high quality steel.

Sessy
05-27-2010, 08:09 AM
Hmm, my Mk's that I had previously also dullend really quickly. I thought it was cuz they were bent but maybe it's just that MK uses worse steel or something? Hmm...

Query
05-27-2010, 02:49 PM
Bill Schneider (http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~schneidw/skating/mounting_blades.html) (on this board) advocates Silicone sealant, and he knows a lot more than me about mechanical stuff.

Hand sharpeners aren't as expensive as machine sharpeners, nor are blades hard to mount. See my pages (http://mgrunes.com/boots/BootBlade.html). Likely your dad could do both. But as others said, if you buy new boots or blades from them, most pro shops won't charge to do a re-mount.

If you sharpen blades that frequently, buying better quality ones that require fewer sharpenings will save money in the long run. So would learning to do it yourself, as would having your dad do it. Maybe you could encourage a local boy to do it? Either someone mechanically inclined, or one at the rink?

I didn't know blades sitting in your lap could attack you so aggressively. Yours must be as playful as kittens. I am also enjoying the image of a frightened full grown horse jumping into the arms of a slightly annoyed teen age girl. You must be so strong! :D I bet it's excellent conditioning for figure skating.

I think your current blades and skates were appropriate to a beginner level. Coronation Ace, or any similar higher end blade (some of the Ultimas have been good bargains), will let you skate better in the long run, as may a better skate. But using equipment that your coach is familiar with is often a good idea.

Regrettably we can't help you with your parent "problem". But a lot of girls would love the chance to show and ride horses. Yours don't sound so awful.

Sessy
05-27-2010, 03:03 PM
21st century, Query... I'm sure she could even do it herself if she put her mind to it ;)

icestalker
05-27-2010, 06:26 PM
Bill Schneider (http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~schneidw/skating/mounting_blades.html) (on this board) advocates Silicone sealant, and he knows a lot more than me about mechanical stuff.

Hand sharpeners aren't as expensive as machine sharpeners, nor are blades hard to mount. See my pages (http://mgrunes.com/boots/BootBlade.html). Likely your dad could do both. But as others said, if you buy new boots or blades from them, most pro shops won't charge to do a re-mount.

If you sharpen blades that frequently, buying better quality ones that require fewer sharpenings will save money in the long run. So would learning to do it yourself, as would having your dad do it. Maybe you could encourage a local boy to do it? Either someone mechanically inclined, or one at the rink?

I didn't know blades sitting in your lap could attack you so aggressively. Yours must be as playful as kittens. I am also enjoying the image of a frightened full grown horse jumping into the arms of a slightly annoyed teen age girl. You must be so strong! :D I bet it's excellent conditioning for figure skating.

I think your current blades and skates were appropriate to a beginner level. Coronation Ace, or any similar higher end blade (some of the Ultimas have been good bargains), will let you skate better in the long run, as may a better skate. But using equipment that your coach is familiar with is often a good idea.

Regrettably we can't help you with your parent "problem". But a lot of girls would love the chance to show and ride horses. Yours don't sound so awful.

I don't trust myself to sharpen own blades, or mount 8O just one slip of the hand..
That's what I told my mother, having to sharpen these blades every 15 hours is costing her money. I am aiming to get the blades mounted next week, though if my mother refuses, then I will sharpen and try again in another few weeks. (My mother pays for the sharpening card.)

My blades simply don't like me. Today the toepick tried to eat my glove whilst putting hard guards on. Hopefully the Aces will be less, er, playful.
Sounds like a great image. Though, it's more like horse tries to jump on top of me, I jump away and curse at it, while horse watches scary plastic bag with huge eyes and braced forelegs. Gotta love 'em.

Today while talking to my coach about upcoming competition in three months, she said I'd have to come in freestyle ice to skate to my music, and Mom didn't even blink (freestyle costs twice as much as public.) Good sign. Though it will be hard to get her to pay for enough privates to learn my routine.

Skate@Delaware
05-28-2010, 07:30 AM
Perhaps I should buy a sharpening machine and have somebody teach my dad to sharpen. He works with metals quite a bit where hand precision is required. Of course, sharpening machines are out of my budget. 8O
Way back (ancient history) when I had my first pair of skates (bought at a thrift shop) my dad sharpened them using a round stone & file...not sure how he did it but it was good enough for me to get out on the cow pond LOL!
I slip on my spin entrances when my blades aren't sharp enough anymore (but then I like my blades super sharp compared to other people at my level). When's the last time you had em sharpened? :) Another reason I like aces myself, they stay sharp better, it's like the steel is harder or something... Well personally I'm just lyrical about coronation aces in general, frankly. But then, I got my mom to switch to them (they really aren't necessary at her level but she could afford it at the time) and she was too so meh, maybe there's something to that. I found it harder to do quick turns in the aces but the edge quality on them just is really super.
I skid on 3-turns when my Aces need a sharpening, that's how I know (not bending enough is always my issue for anything so I can't go by that). You can do quick turns on them if you bend more tho.

Sessy
05-28-2010, 09:47 AM
Walk through your routine as much as you can off-ice!


Skate @ Delaware, didn't you used to have blades that matched the ROH, rocker and length of your "good" blades for sillicon-oil-fake-ice stuff? Did those match your aces or some other type of blade?

RachelSk8er
05-28-2010, 11:34 AM
Can models of the same brand differ in sole length? That's another reason I want to put blades on now.. who says they'll fit the next boots? I am planning to stay with the same brand though. My foot is custom made to Riedell (rather than being the other way round), so Jacksons, GAMs, whatever, probably wouldn't fit me nearly as well.

Yes. Riedells do, as a matter of fact. The heel tapers in and is slightly higher on some models (1310s, 2010s, not sure if it's like that on any others), so they take 1/2"-1/4" shorter than some of the other models. I was in size 6 Royals with a 10" blade for years, then 1500s with a 10" blade. Got 2010s earlier this year, and 10" are too long. I need more like 9 3/4 (could go down to a 9 1/2 even).

If it's a difference of 1/4" though, a skate tech can work with that and mount them so the plate hangs a little bit off the front and back of the sole. That's what we did with mine so I didn't have to spend another $530 on blades and it works fine, I don't even notice it when I skate.

icestalker
05-28-2010, 12:15 PM
Walk through your routine as much as you can off-ice!


I will :D I made it a goal to get a split spiral by September. I'm using the competition as ammunition to get my blades mounted soon.


Yes. Riedells do, as a matter of fact. The heel tapers in and is slightly higher on some models (1310s, 2010s, not sure if it's like that on any others), so they take 1/2"-1/4" shorter than some of the other models. I was in size 6 Royals with a 10" blade for years, then 1500s with a 10" blade. Got 2010s earlier this year, and 10" are too long. I need more like 9 3/4 (could go down to a 9 1/2 even).

If it's a difference of 1/4" though, a skate tech can work with that and mount them so the plate hangs a little bit off the front and back of the sole. That's what we did with mine so I didn't have to spend another $530 on blades and it works fine, I don't even notice it when I skate.

The rocker spin spot isn't affected by the blade hanging off?

Hmm, I don't know if a 1310 or 2010 is in my future anytime soon. Aren't those double jumping skates? I would think a 435 or 875 TS would be the skate to step up from Medallions (though I don't actually know anything.)

Sessy
05-28-2010, 03:25 PM
I will :D I made it a goal to get a split spiral by September. I'm using the competition as ammunition to get my blades mounted soon.


I meant the step sequences :)

Query
05-30-2010, 05:32 PM
BTW, we all assumed you are on real (i.e., cold water) ice. If you are on synthetic ice, getting a high end blade is almost pointless, because it is more abrasive.

I probably shouldn't say this, but, AFAICT, all the kids who are good enough to go to nationals (and for the most part who do well in regional) competitions skate almost every day, and they spend a lot of money on skating, so you should be realistic about your dreams.

icestalker
05-30-2010, 06:21 PM
BTW, we all assumed you are on real (i.e., cold water) ice. If you are on synthetic ice, getting a high end blade is almost pointless, because it is more abrasive.

I probably shouldn't say this, but, AFAICT, all the kids who are good enough to go to nationals (and for the most part who do well in regional) competitions skate almost every day, and they spend a lot of money on skating, so you should be realistic about your dreams.

It's cold and makes snow.. that's real ice, right? :lol:

I said something about nationals..?

icestalker
06-04-2010, 01:21 PM
I might be changing from a 1/2" ROH to a 7/16" sometime in the near future. 7/16" is deeper and grabbier, right? But since 7/16" is pretty close to 1/2", is there even any difference?

In my patch figures class it seems like I skid a bit on the circles sometimes, especially when going fast, would a deeper ROH resolve that? Also I don't always feel secure in sit spin entries. What about spirals? Do deeper ROHs hurt or help for spin entries/spirals? And everything, really, how deeper ROHs affect jump takeoffs and landings, turns, crossovers, stops, and the spinning part of a spin?

As I posted in my twizzling backspin post, it was not me or the ROH that was causing me problems in patch figures, jump takeoffs, or spin entries. It was the blade slowly loosening.8O8O If you want to see the whole story go to
http://skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=31065
and scroll to the last two posts by me.
Anyway after my blade was tightened I stopped slipping on sit spin entries, my salchow was very secure, and though I forgot to try an outside figure, I bet you tomorrow I will not be skidding on my figure edges. Though I said in the other post that my blade had been tight when I first skated on them, I now think that it wasn't like that for long, or might have perhaps been a tiny bit loose to start with. I can not know for sure because I did not work on sit spins until about three or four weeks after I had gotten the skates. But the blade was loose at least three-four weeks after I got the skates because I think the first time I held an outside edge all around the figure circle was a few weeks after I started the class. The first few weeks I was putting my foot down too much to know if I had been skidding on the edge or not. So I really cannot know for sure if the blades were loose to start with or if they were tight and loosened after skating on them a few times.

Anyway, I'm sticking with a 1/2" ROH and the next few times I skate I will see how the 1/2" ROH does on those CorAces. (The Aces are being mounted now because either way a blade is getting mounted, when the guy tightened my old blades it was only temporary, they'd have to be remounted to ensure that they would stay tight. So might as well put on the new blades.)