2010 AN's- results, stories, rants and raves!!

[Terri C]

Since the other AN 2010 thread is very long, I'm starting another one for what happens at AN this year! Tell us your stories, results, rants and raves!
Good luck to all!

[harmony]

Thanks Terri! What a great idea. :D

[Mel On Ice]

We are checking our coach into her hotel then going to ours. Looooooong trip thru Wisconsin, but skated at Glacier in Chicago this AM. Still punchy from the road, giggling at little things, checked in and ready or not, prepared to skate.

Wang chung!

[Terri C]

We are checking our coach into her hotel then going to ours. Looooooong trip thru Wisconsin, but skated at Glacier in Chicago this AM. Still punchy from the road, giggling at little things, checked in and ready or not, prepared to skate.

Wang chung!


Hey, I've heard some interesting things about the goody bags...who wants to elaborate?!

[Mel On Ice]

I really like the competitors gift, aluminum water bottles with event logo. I got a protein bar, protein shake, coupons, two lipsticks and a nail polish. Brands have varied by bag.

Venue seems nice, although we didn't get a close look sin e we were late getting in and wanted to eat and check in to hotel.

[AgnesNitt]

I really like the competitors gift, aluminum water bottles with event logo. I got a protein bar, protein shake, coupons, two lipsticks and a nail polish. Brands have varied by bag.


Do the male competitors get the lipsticks and nail polish too? It seems so unfair.

[Isk8NYC]

Ah, but think of the opportunities those trinkets can be bartered for. Before my time, but weren't nylons legal tender during the War? j/k!!!

I'm tempted to make a "guy-liner joke" but I'm over quota on innuendo, lol.

We're seriously short on AN reports. I'm guessing most people are putting it out on Facebook and Twitter.

[Debbie S]

Results link on IN is up: http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2010/65690/results.html

Unfortunately, they don't have Bronze or Silver events listed. Does this mean those results won't be posted anywhere? I hope someone tells IN and the LOC that people are in fact interested in the results of those levels.

[harmony]

I sent IN an email this morning asking about the live results. Still awaiting a reply. I'll pass along any info that I get.

[Ice T]

Anyone have Silver III results?

[Mel On Ice]

Event happening right now. Shared tears with Charnell who is in the house and we talked parenting. Free cookies from some pasta place. And unnamed pairs team being their usual naughty selves. 10 seems to be the magic number in my group. Vibe is...?

[jazzpants]

Ice T is in DA HOUZE!!!! :bow: :bow: :bow:

I want Bronze III and Silver III too! :mrgreen:

[harmony]

I have Silver 1 results if anyone is interested

[jazzpants]

I have Silver 1 results if anyone is interested
SPILL!!! :twisted: (I know Brandy is 2nd... but that's it.)

[harmony]

1 - Laurel Alexander
2 - Brandy Lokken
3 - Lucy Hoang
4 - Kimberly Ellsworth-Flores
5 - Rachel Kuhn
6 - Samantha Schecter
7 - Dana Craft
Kimberly McNeil - Withdrawn

[jazzpants]

Event happening right now. Shared tears with Charnell who is in the house and we talked parenting. Free cookies from some pasta place. And unnamed pairs team being their usual naughty selves. 10 seems to be the magic number in my group. Vibe is...?
If the naughty pairs team is who I think it is... I hope Jay had sent cookies to him... :twisted:

Thanks, harmony!!!

[Ice T]

Yeah, I just posted a little rant on facebook about how they post results for gold and masters, but not bronze and silver.

[Ice T]

Ice T is in DA HOUZE!!!! :bow: :bow: :bow:

I want Bronze III and Silver III too! :mrgreen:

Awww...thanks! 8-)
Some of you know that I lost a baby at 6 months into the pregnancy last year. So AN was not in the plans for me this time. I've been back on the ice for several months, but just doing the local competitions right now until I'm ready for the big time again. :giveup:

[doubletoe]

Anyone have Silver III results?


I am totally offended that IceNetwork isn't posting the Bronze and Silver results. A LOT of skaters are in Bronze and Silver and people DO care!!

[drskater]

I signed up for IN specifically to watch this event--INCLUDING Bronze and Silver. I was livid when I went online and couldn't get them. Grrrrr---rant.

[Ice T]

All I know is Lori Fussell took 3rd.

I am totally offended that IceNetwork isn't posting the Bronze and Silver results. A LOT of skaters are in Bronze and Silver and people DO care!!

I'll send them an email...I've done it before.

OK done...email sent. We'll see if and what response they send me.

[harmony]

IN only posts the videos for the events after the competition; you can't _watch_ any of the events live. However, I was hoping that they would post live results for the events. Sigh, we'll see how things go tomorrow. Still haven't received a reply from my email this morning, but I bet they're swamped right now.

[Stormy]

I'll see if I can ask anyone at the rink when IN will be posting the other results. Right now I'm at a coffee shop but will be back at the rink later.

No real rants to speak of. The rinks are nice and not overwhelmingly cold. The ice in Rink 1 is hard, but in 2 it's soft. The LOC is doing a nice job but does seem a little unorganized in some areas, so no real raves either. I really like the water bottle they gave us in the bags. That's a great gift.

The caliber of skating in Gold has been way upped this year. I'm way outta my league, but I'm going to try to squeeze every available point out of my program. I finally have a draw I actually like and I've had two good, solid practices. :)

[Skittl1321]

I have Silver 1 results if anyone is interested

I think it's safe to assume that if it has anything to do with AN, we are interested :)

[Stormy]

I know they will be doing the Championship IJS events scoring live. I don't know if they'l do the Open IJS events scoring live though. Last year during the Championship events we were able to pull of the protocol literally right after the person skated, which was pretty neat.

[Ice T]

They replied quickly, but clearly didn't read my email. Just said that results were being posted on their page. We know that....I wrote them back...we want bronze and silver.

[Debbie S]

Last year during the Championship events we were able to pull of the protocol literally right after the person skated, which was pretty neat.We could do that at Regionals this past fall, too. But they didn't do it for Nats - maybe next year? I need to get a smartphone, lol.

[Terri C]

Wow-I'm working a 12 hour shift today and what a firestorm I've started! I plan to look at results on IN when I get home tonight. If there are no Bronze or Silver results, I'll be happy to add to the e-mail rampage!!

[TreSk8sAZ]

I want bronze and silver on IN live as well, but I'm wondering if it has to do with the fact they're under the 6.0 system, rather than IJS. The 6.0 system doesn't have a computer to score it like IJS does, so it would have to be manually input rather than just clicking a button after every skater. Don't know, just wondering.

[harmony]

Bronze I Results

1 - Bonnie Goranowski
2 - Melissa Deuel
3 - Rachelle Beauchesne
4 - Elena Kuenning
5 - Sarah Klosterbuer
6 - Nancy Goenawan
7 - Lynndsi Craver
8 - Anne Sinko

[tazsk8s]

I want bronze and silver on IN live as well, but I'm wondering if it has to do with the fact they're under the 6.0 system, rather than IJS. The 6.0 system doesn't have a computer to score it like IJS does, so it would have to be manually input rather than just clicking a button after every skater. Don't know, just wondering.

I think you are exactly right about this. IIRC, the results for Synchro Nationals were live for IJS events and after-the-event for 6.0. Right now if you go to the Ice Network page, there are a couple of Silver Men's event results posted (scroll down to the bottom). So my guess is they aren't going to be live but we'll see them at some point after the event is done.

ETA, just did a refresh. Bronze Ladies I-III, Silver Ladies I-III and Silver Men all posted now.

[doubletoe]

I want bronze and silver on IN live as well, but I'm wondering if it has to do with the fact they're under the 6.0 system, rather than IJS. The 6.0 system doesn't have a computer to score it like IJS does, so it would have to be manually input rather than just clicking a button after every skater. Don't know, just wondering.

Aahhh!! Now THAT actually DOES make sense.

[jazzpants]

Bronze IV Ladies:

http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2010/65690/vab4lc1.html

Bronze III Ladies:

http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2010/65690/vab3lc1.html

Bronze II Ladies:

http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2010/65690/vab2lc1.html

(YAAAAY, Mel On Ice!!! :bow: Top 10!!! :) )

Silver II Ladies:

http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2010/65690/vas2lc1.html

Silver I Ladies:

http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2010/65690/vas1lc1.html


Silver III Men:

http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2010/65690/vas3mc1.html

(WOO HOO, Rob!!! YOU GO!!! :bow: :bow: :bow: )

Silver IV Ladies:

http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2010/65690/vas4lc1.html

(YAAAAAY!!! I knew Mary would get the Gold!!! She skated at our rink for a couple of weeks. She's a STRONG skater, this one!!! :bow: :bow: )

[Isk8NYC]

Bravo - my DD's coach came in 2nd in Artistic/Dramatic!

MASTER LADIES ARTISTIC/DRAMATIC INTERP. I Final Standings (http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2010/65690/vminad1lc1.html)
MASTER LADIES ARTISTIC/DRAMATIC INTERP. IV Final Standings (http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2010/65690/vminad4lc1.html)

[Debbie S]

Congrats to Rob and Mel! And any others on here that I missed! :)

[Ice T]

Thank you, Ice Network, for posting Bronze and Silver results!! :D

[Terri C]

Good morning Day 2!!
Went to look at the blog on IN, but there is a error message. Hummm.

[looplover]

Bravo - my DD's coach came in 2nd in Artistic/Dramatic!

MASTER LADIES ARTISTIC/DRAMATIC INTERP. I Final Standings (http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2010/65690/vminad1lc1.html)
MASTER LADIES ARTISTIC/DRAMATIC INTERP. IV Final Standings (http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2010/65690/vminad4lc1.html)

Yay! I didn't know she was going - great news!

[harmony]

Good Morning Day 2! I've been refreshing the results page all morning so far. Looks like no results-love for us just yet.

Edit - Results are up - Yay!!

[Isk8NYC]

Yay! I didn't know she was going - great news!
I'm wondering if she withdrew from her comedy/light entertainment event. We'll see when the results are posted later.

There's a young man who skates at our rink and is going to Nats to compete on Saturday. The poor guy - he had his skates sharpened a few weeks ago and they just aren't right. I could see it on his spirals - he looked very insecure. He was heading over to have them redone last night. I hope they're not too sharp for this weekend, but he didn't have much of a choice. Maybe he'll come to the freestyle this afternoon to dull them down a bit. (Nova - he's a friend of yours from Duke)

[Stormy]

I'm very pleased with how fast the IJS results and protocols are going up right after the open events have finished. I am chilling at a coffeehouse again, trying not to spend all day at the rink since I have to skate tonight. If nothing else, I have great hair! :) Jessica Sciezinski has been doing hair here and she's fabulous!

[NoVa Sk8r]

There's a young man who skates at our rink and is going to Nats to compete on Saturday. The poor guy - he had his skates sharpened a few weeks ago and they just aren't right. I could see it on his spirals - he looked very insecure. He was heading over to have them redone last night. I hope they're not too sharp for this weekend, but he didn't have much of a choice. Maybe he'll come to the freestyle this afternoon to dull them down a bit. (Nova - he's a friend of yours from Duke)You mean mskater? Poor guy. Seems like he is always having boot/blade issues come competition time. :(

[Stormy]

Good morning Day 2!!
Went to look at the blog on IN, but there is a error message. Hummm.

That is because every time Lexi blogs, it has to be approved and you get the error message until it's approved. So if you happen to get that again, just wait a little while and try again.

[Debbie S]

Congrats, NoVa! Good luck to you and Tara in Champ!

Congrats also to flo and her partner on their bronze medal!

[NoVa Sk8r]

Congrats, NoVa! Good luck to you and Tara in Champ!

Congrats also to flo and her partner on their bronze medal!
Flo and partner skated a magnificent program with an awesome back outside death spiral!

[Mel On Ice]

Watched Charnell's return to the ice, very emotional. Saw a pairs teams rock it to Rush's "Spirit of the Radio!"

[flo]

Thanks Deb,Nova! Congrats Nova on your gold! A good time for the gold pairs!
Also, congrats to Dennis, my partner for a silver in silver free!
We've been calling this the DIY nationals . Pretty much register yourself, no organization at the practice ice, and for the medals they just say "take your places on the podium". Ha! Fortunately the adults are pretty practiced at this!

[MusicSkateFan]

Was very glad to hear of Charnell skating again. Good for him.

A lot of masters open events with 1 entry or very few entrants. Too bad. Maybe they should make a rule that if you qual for championship you MUST do your open freestyle as well! That would PO some people! Y'all know me..I like to say things to shake it up!

A lot of Silver and Bronze using vocals in freestyle? Anyone know?

[Isk8NYC]

for the medals they just say "take your places on the podium". Ha! That's so funny! ROFLOL!

I was at a competition recently when the BOYS event (all four of them) awards were being given out. The presenters were fine, but one of the skaters was hilarious. He was so overexcited that he kept bopping up and down in anticipation. He was tiny - I'm short and he only came up to my waist.

When they announced the "Now the award for Boys, ..." this little one JUMPED up onto the 1st place podium from the floor, lol. Kid's got a great axel and isn't afraid to show it. Too bad it wasn't his event - it was a teenage boy who is six foot tall and skated against the book. The real winner didn't know what to do - he just looked. Everyone cracked up.

[Stormy]

Was very glad to hear of Charnell skating again. Good for him.

A lot of masters open events with 1 entry or very few entrants. Too bad. Maybe they should make a rule that if you qual for championship you MUST do your open freestyle as well! That would PO some people! Y'all know me..I like to say things to shake it up!

A lot of Silver and Bronze using vocals in freestyle? Anyone know?

Well, the fact they aren't combining age groups for the masters events with only one person is a little annoying as well. They have in the past so I'm not sure why it wasn't done here.

I haven't heard one person using vocals for their freeskates, which I'm really happy about. I was very much against it at Governing Council last year for adults and I'm glad to see it hasn't caught on.

[Skittl1321]

I haven't heard one person using vocals for their freeskates, which I'm really happy about. I was very much against it at Governing Council last year for adults and I'm glad to see it hasn't caught on.

Thanks for reporting back on that. I was wondering if many would. My freeskate right now has vocal music (and I'm not eligible for adult nats anyhow) but I wondered if I would need to change it for a competition like this where interp is a big part. I don't do interp, so this is the only program I've got.

[harmony]

So where are the live Champ results?

[Zoomana]

So where are the live Champ results?

Wondering this myself, I know someone who was competing today and hope she did well - where have all the scores gone?!

[pedonskates]

The IJS results are being put up as soon as the whole event is done because of some internet connection issues.

[MusicSkateFan]

Congrats to Mark P. Championship Gold Men's Gold Medal!!!!!

WELL DESERVED!!!

[sk8er1964]

Looks from the protocols that the caller was a bit strict. Is this the case? Or did people just miss a lot of stuff. Especially thinking of the duplicate spins in the Gold Ladies event leading to zeros and the toe loop downgrades.

[Nancy]

Hey, could someone please post the Silver Dance (couples) results? For some reason they still aren't listed on Icenetwork. I know they would have skated the initial round by now.

[MusicSkateFan]

Looks from the protocols that the caller was a bit strict. Is this the case? Or did people just miss a lot of stuff. Especially thinking of the duplicate spins in the Gold Ladies event leading to zeros and the toe loop downgrades.

As they should! Also sometimes people miss a spin entrance and then it has to get called as the same type of spin as a previous spin etc. so no credit. Some silly mistakes by some skaters...doing 3 loop jumps, or too many combos negates that element. IJS can be tricky gor adults.

[techskater]

Looks from the protocols that the caller was a bit strict. Is this the case? Or did people just miss a lot of stuff. Especially thinking of the duplicate spins in the Gold Ladies event leading to zeros and the toe loop downgrades.

These were deserved. The tech panels have been VERY fair. Downgrades received were appropriate, extra spins, etc were correct calls.

As to the comment about IJS being tricky, the rule is plan your skate and skate your plan and always have a back up plan

[RachelSk8er]

WE CAN HAZ FOAM WEAPONS!!!!!

Actually, I'm surprised the credential police are allowing our foam weapons into the rink since they are so concerned with us having our credentials on for "security purposes."

Credential police confiscated a friend's credit card as collateral yesterday because she went to her warm-up for champ gold and didn't have it with her. WTF!?

[sk8er1964]

These were deserved. The tech panels have been VERY fair. Downgrades received were appropriate, extra spins, etc were correct calls.

Thanks for the info. I remember it being an issue at Chicago but not in Grand Rapids, so I was curious. Congrats on your medal :)

[flo]

The credential police just want to be sure they get their money any way they can. I was walking in with my partner, both rolling skate bags and carrying matching 2006 garment bags, wearing matching outfits and wearing our credentials under our matching jackets, and they asked me for my tag as it was not hanging out.

Anyway, does anyone know who gave out the beautiful medals as tossies? They are wonderful.

[je]

The first videos are up at icenetwork!

Johanna

[jazzpants]

http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2010/65690/vainlc2lc1.html

HOORAY to everyone but especially to MEL ON ICE for the pewter medal! WOO HOOOOOO!!! You go!!!! :bow: :bow: :bow:

[sk8er1964]

And a first place ordinal over Lori - that is a high accomplishment indeed, since Lori is so very very good at interp. Way to go Mel! (Way to go Lori, too, on your gold - don't know if you are on this board, but your interps are always awesome :) )

[Mel On Ice]

It was an honor to share the podium with Lorifor he first time. :)

[Mel On Ice]

And flying camel has some news too...

[sk8er1964]

Inquiring minds want to know....

[drskater]

Just watched Bronze Ladies I -- congratulations!! You guys rocked the house. Thanks IN for posting the videos, I really enjoyed this event and look forward to watching all the rest.

[flo]

Congrats Mel and bronze ladies!!!!!

[dreamnmusic]

Where are all of these lists listed? The winners and what-not. I think I fail with the internet or something because I cannot find them :frus:

[sk8er1964]

Icenetwork.com

http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2010/65690/results.html

[jazzpants]

And flying camel has some news too...Edited post since I found out on FB!!!


WAHOOOOOOOOO!!!! CONGRATULATIONS, flying~camel!!! :bow: :bow: :bow: SOOOOOO HAPPY for 'ya!!!

That must have been utterly a moooooo-ving experience! ;) :lol: :P

[rlichtefeld]

The credential police just want to be sure they get their money any way they can. I was walking in with my partner, both rolling skate bags and carrying matching 2006 garment bags, wearing matching outfits and wearing our credentials under our matching jackets, and they asked me for my tag as it was not hanging out.

Anyway, does anyone know who gave out the beautiful medals as tossies? They are wonderful.
If is the the medal in a baggie with a note about remembrance, it's from Terryl.

Rob

[flo]

Thanks Rob. They are lovely.

[oniceagain]

If is the the medal in a baggie with a note about remembrance, it's from Terryl.

Rob

They are really wonderful. Thanks!

[oniceagain]

The credential police just want to be sure they get their money any way they can. I was walking in with my partner, both rolling skate bags and carrying matching 2006 garment bags, wearing matching outfits and wearing our credentials under our matching jackets, and they asked me for my tag as it was not hanging out.

Anyway, does anyone know who gave out the beautiful medals as tossies? They are wonderful.

Yes, I pulled mine out right behind you. She was about to ask me too!

[oniceagain]

Do the male competitors get the lipsticks and nail polish too? It seems so unfair.

Yep. I gave it all to Phyllis!

[flying~camel]

And flying camel has some news too...

I won LE/C interp 1 :D

[Debbie S]

I won LE/C interp 1 :DCongratulations!

[pairman2]

For those that like numbers, I made the following observation about the Championship Gold Men IJS scores

Averaging the 2009 scores and the 2010 scores:
2010 Technical marks rose 38.4% over 2009
2010 Component Scores rose 46.2% over 2009
2010 Total scores (after deductions), rose 42.8% over 2009

[flo]

Flying Camel, Major congrats!!!!!!!
I missed it, what was your program?
Anyone know what the artistic interps were like?

[vesperholly]

Do the male competitors get the lipsticks and nail polish too? It seems so unfair.
Some people got a mini fake farm tool set. :twisted:

If is the the medal in a baggie with a note about remembrance, it's from Terryl.

They were beautiful. :) I got one and I wasn't expecting to be so touched. Really made my day. (It's my 8th place medal! ;) )

[RachelSk8er]

All I know is I've got a loooooong to-do list to accomplish between now and next year, which after looking at my pictures from my events just got even longer...lol. I do some very strange things with my hands/wrists/elbows and sometimes even get my shoulders in on the awkward action too. Probably left over from my days as a synchro skater and not having to think about my arms. And the lovely chicken wing I make with my right arm when I jump...I thought I had gotten rid of that, but guess not!

[RachelSk8er]

NoVa mentioned hosting next year's ANs in his back yard. I'm all for that. Actually, I'm not picky. My only request is that we have an ANs where:

1) you can ask a question at the registration desk without receiving a blank stare in return

2) we have sweepers who aren't spending the entire time they are off the ice arguing, poking/slapping/pushing/shoving each other, distracting skaters who are about to compete, dropping crumbled cookies all over the ice (yes, it really happened), and all the other things they were doing (I know they're kids and they're volunteers and the days are long but still...I've never seen it quite like this, the ice monitors were doing more babysitting than ice monitoring)

3) we can get info we need on important things like practice ice and not 937 emails about an ANs blanket

[Stormy]

NoVa mentioned hosting next year's ANs in his back yard. I'm all for that. Actually, I'm not picky. My only request is that we have an ANs where:

1) you can ask a question at the registration desk without receiving a blank stare in return

2) we have sweepers who aren't spending the entire time they are off the ice arguing, poking/slapping/pushing/shoving each other, distracting skaters who are about to compete, dropping crumbled cookies all over the ice (yes, it really happened), and all the other things they were doing (I know they're kids and they're volunteers and the days are long but still...I've never seen it quite like this, the ice monitors were doing more babysitting than ice monitoring)

3) we can get info we need on important things like practice ice and not 937 emails about an ANs blanket

I wholeheartedly agree about the sweepers. I saw one of them poke Keith Newcombe's flower on his shirt literally as he's taking his guards off as he went out to skate and he looked pretty annoyed. I don't blame him. And then there was the one that threw the cookie crumbs on the ice as I was skating. Don't have them do hours at a time, that club was big enough that there could have been a different pair of girls every hour. And they should have been told to leave the skaters alone other than giving them their items. I know they're kids, but still.

[sk8er1964]

For those that like numbers, I made the following observation about the Championship Gold Men IJS scores

Averaging the 2009 scores and the 2010 scores:
2010 Technical marks rose 38.4% over 2009
2010 Component Scores rose 46.2% over 2009
2010 Total scores (after deductions), rose 42.8% over 2009

Here's one I find very interesting. In Gold Ladies III (which would have been my group if I had gone), only two of the top six finishers even attempted an axel. Only one of those ladies attempted a double.

Of the 12 skaters, there were seven that attempted axels. Six axels were ratified (and four of those were from the two medalists who attempted them), five were downgraded. With the doubles, two ladies attempted them. One (a medalist) tried two, with one ratified and one downgraded, and the other had her attempt downgraded.

Contrast that to when I first competed gold ladies, back in 2003. Pretty much everyone did two axels (of varying degrees of quality), and many if not most attempted doubles. IJS sure has changed things.

[flying~camel]

Flying Camel, Major congrats!!!!!!!
I missed it, what was your program?
Anyone know what the artistic interps were like?

Thanks! I skated as a cow and I improv'd about 75% of the program as I was skating it!

[MusicSkateFan]

I think it depends on the judging pannel. Some years in IJS a Gold skater who did not attempt at least an axel did not get very high component marks even though they had as much speed and good edges as anyone else in the group(thus making them not competetive in scoring). Other years(Last year Champ Gold Men for example) 2 of the medalist did not even attempt an axel or a double yet their component marks were competetive with the rest of the field. We like to think you can compare competition scores but in reality it depends on what the panel's expectations are. I still think the bigger issue should be that if Nats is going to be IJS then Sectionals should be as well. Not such a big issue for the men because there are so few but IMHO the ladies should be raising the roof to get this changed. Just my two cents.

[flying~camel]

Here's one I find very interesting. In Gold Ladies III (which would have been my group if I had gone), only two of the top six finishers even attempted an axel. Only one of those ladies attempted a double.

The 6th place finisher in that group decided to take out her axel because she found that she could get more points for a salchow-loop than she would for a clean axel (and remove the possibility for a -GOE, a downgrade and/or a fall).

[sk8er1964]

I still think the bigger issue should be that if Nats is going to be IJS then Sectionals should be as well. Not such a big issue for the men because there are so few but IMHO the ladies should be raising the roof to get this changed. Just my two cents.


I agree. Anyone know if the issue up at GC?

[sk8er1964]

The 6th place finisher in that group decided to take out her axel because she found that she could get more points for a salchow-loop than she would for a clean axel (and remove the possibility for a -GOE, a downgrade and/or a fall).

This is not a slam on anyone who has made these kinds of choices - they are being smart about skating under the IJS system.

However, it makes me wonder if the current quad controversy in the elite ranks isn't also an appropriate discussion at this level. Are we going to see more and more adult skaters playing it safe instead of pushing the envelope? I don't want to go back to the old days where we saw people who couldn't get anywhere close to landing a double trying them all over the place, yet is a trend of adult national medalists who don't skate elements at test requirements (ie the axel in gold) where we want to go either? Should the axel become a required element at gold like it is for masters int/novice? If we do this, do we risk losing older skaters who cannot do an axel any longer due to their age? Should we push for a different scoring scale for adults than elites? Would that make the risk of an axel worth trying instead of a sal-loop, for example.

Just throwing out thoughts. I don't have any answers or strong opinions (yet) on this issue.

[manleywoman]

This is not a slam on anyone who has made these kinds of choices - they are being smart about skating under the IJS system.

However, it makes me wonder if the current quad controversy in the elite ranks isn't also an appropriate discussion at this level. Are we going to see more and more adult skaters playing it safe instead of pushing the envelope? I don't want to go back to the old days where we saw people who couldn't get anywhere close to landing a double trying them all over the place, yet is a trend of adult national medalists who don't skate elements at test requirements (ie the axel in gold) where we want to go either? Should the axel become a required element at gold like it is for masters int/novice? If we do this, do we risk losing older skaters who cannot do an axel any longer due to their age? Should we push for a different scoring scale for adults than elites? Would that make the risk of an axel worth trying instead of a sal-loop, for example.

Just throwing out thoughts. I don't have any answers or strong opinions (yet) on this issue.
I was discussing this a bit too. I saw the writing on the wall Friday night while watching the Gold Mens/Ladies and, knowing what my competitors were doing in Int/Novice, I knew that my program wasn't competitive enough even with my doubles. I chose to do steps over a spiral sequence (lots of points lost there) and my spins were levels 1/2/3 respectively while they did all level 3/4. Therefore much of my group got higher marks not on jumps at all but on spirals and spins. Even our Gold medalist said it's become a spin and spiral competition because doing doubles just doesn't get the points at our level. She thought I must have imploded because I was so far down, but I said, no I skated well with an axel and three clean doubles, one in combo. I just didn't focus on the spirals and spins the same way when choreographing the program.

Again, not slamming anyone. I really enjoy all my competitors and they are great girls, every one! And they were smart for sure. But it did shock me a bit to see so many of the Men in particular forgo the steps for a spiral sequence!

[manleywoman]

I agree. Anyone know if the issue up at GC?

No, and it will be a long while. It's expensive. Personally, I think they should run the numbers and see how much it could cost, then take a poll among the Championship qualifiers that said, "if it cost XXX to do IJS at Sectioanls, would you be willing to pay it?" I think we should have IJS at Sectionals, but I also would like to know how much it's going to cost us all before a final decision is made.

[pairman2]

I think the higher tech marks may be in part, that competitors are planning their programs much more more carefully so as to optimize points. Its a sport and that's fair and smart. The greater mystery to me is why such a difference in component marks from one year to the next in Mens Ch Gold. I'm also curious if there was the same level of year to year disparity in other events.

At the Olympics this year, there seemed to be a similar phenomena with so many 'personal best's being made.

[Isk8NYC]

IJS is complex and is really not all that "established." They added the extended spin position as a feature this year, which would benefit someone who struggles with multiple position changes in a spin. As skaters/coaches learn more, they plan better. They also push for higher-level ratings on the things they already do well, so I expect to see personal bests being set more and more.

I think what sk8er1964 is saying (correct me if I'm wrong) is that there should be a reward for risking it all. I feel more strongly that, if you don't have a solid *something*, don't put it out there and hope for a good day on the ice. That's just my opinion as a spectator. I cringe when I watch a skater (of any age) attempting something that's obviously beyond their mastery - you can see it from the entry and it just gets worse when they can't complete it. Not that it affects scoring tremendously, or does it?

"Winging it" definitely adds to the emotional impact of the sport, often leading to apres-skate meltdowns. Just sayin'

Since participation was lower this year than last, that would explain some of Pairman's statistics - when you compare different-sized populations, you have to make some assumptions. One might be to assume that the skaters who competed this year were the ones who had solid elements. They planned new programs or tweaked established ones to get as many points as possible under IJS. The skaters who didn't compete this year may not have been the strongest skater, perhaps lowering the prior year scores.

I'd like to think that skaters who weren't there are improving their consistency and will be back in the future with solid axels and doubles. Then you'll really see a jump in stats.

I'm not a statistics expert, but it might be more reasonable to compare different years' scores by including skaters who were in the same event this year as well as last year. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can chime in.

[RachelSk8er]

The greater mystery to me is why such a difference in component marks from one year to the next in Mens Ch Gold. I'm also curious if there was the same level of year to year disparity in other events.

Overall the quality of skating in champ gold men was much higher than last year. I know I and the others sitting around me were very impressed with what we saw. It looked like a lot of them remembered that there is a second mark and put more effort into upping their skating skills, choreography, etc, rather than just focusing on the technical aspect.

And scores going up each year as the skaters get more experience with IJS and figure out how to maximize points is normal across the board with every discipline of skating.

No, and it will be a long while. It's expensive. Personally, I think they should run the numbers and see how much it could cost, then take a poll among the Championship qualifiers that said, "if it cost XXX to do IJS at Sectioanls, would you be willing to pay it?" I think we should have IJS at Sectionals, but I also would like to know how much it's going to cost us all before a final decision is made.

Or would it help offset some of the cost of IJS at sectionals if skaters who qualify for a champ event at ANs have to pay an entry fee for ANs, too? I know that traditionally they don't, but if it means more money to help sectionals, it could be an option. (Waiting for uproar from champ skaters now on that suggestion...but it's just an idea that could help, even though in the long run it's not a whole lot of money.) It's just stupid that to qualify for every other national competition we have in the US (nationals, JNs, synchro nationals), those skaters get to qualify and skate at nationals under the same system...and adults get the shaft. We deserve to be taken seriously just like every other level/discipline of skating.

[manleywoman]

We deserve to be taken seriously just like every other level/discipline of skating.

I don't think they don't take us seriously. I just think it's more a cost issue.

[Stormy]

IJS at Sectionals was discussed at GC last year and I did get up to speak and and make the case for it. I said the adults were the only athletes (emphasis on ATHLETES, because we are!) in the country who had to qualify to their Nationals under a different system. I didn't come right out and say "It's not fair!", but it's not. I'd be interested myself to see the numbers as to how much more IJS would cost at Sectionals. I know I'd pay more to have it.

After the Championship events last year I heard a LOT of people talking about how they would be doing more complicated spins and spirals to max out points for this season and you could really see it this year.

[pairman2]

From 2009, 5 out of 11 returned to this years event. 13 competitors total competed in 2010.

[Isk8NYC]

From 2009, 5 out of 11 returned to this years event. 13 competitors total competed in 2010.
Did the five returnees all set personal bests? Did their scores rise or fall?

I would assume that, given the economy, all competitors would be more aggressive in their preparation than previous years. That would hold true for the eight "new" competitors, who may have competed in another event last year or might be new to AN entirely.

[vesperholly]

Even our Gold medalist said it's become a spin and spiral competition because doing doubles just doesn't get the points at our level.

Agreed. Isn't there talk that the ISU is going to make spirals part of the PCS scores and not a point-getting element? I do hope they do this. Skaters who are not naturally flexible are at an automatic disadvantage, and that doesn't seem right to me.

[vesperholly]

Word to that entire post, Rachel. Those sweeper girls earned the warning we were given about tossies ...

[pairman2]

ISk8NYC, Don't know everyones personal history but most of the competitors have been in and out of AN for a # of years. I think only a few true new Gold Champ sk8ers

Versperholly, Totally agree with you! Doubles (which I can't do) are way underrated relative to spirals. IMHO, step sequences are also underrated.

[sk8er1964]

I think what sk8er1964 is saying (correct me if I'm wrong) is that there should be a reward for risking it all. I feel more strongly that, if you don't have a solid *something*, don't put it out there and hope for a good day on the ice. That's just my opinion as a spectator. I cringe when I watch a skater (of any age) attempting something that's obviously beyond their mastery - you can see it from the entry and it just gets worse when they can't complete it. Not that it affects scoring tremendously, or does it?

No, I'm not advocating sloppiness (actually, I'm not really advocating anything - just musing). The disappearance of cheated doubles in Gold is a good thing about IJS, IMO.

My thought about the risk reward was piggybacked on the argument in the elite world about rewarding risks for quads in giving the quad more points so that doing it is worth more than a 3A-3T. Same idea here, making an axel worth more than a 1S-1L.

[Isk8NYC]

I agree with you then. I'd love to see the technical difficulty of programs increase as long as it was realistic and not encouraging unprepared attempts. I just don't want to see Wishes on Ice and it's sequel, Splats R Us.

I also think that doubles should be worth more than spirals at the same levels. Making them PCS only would just discard spirals though. Why "waste" the program time on a spiral sequence unless it was required, when an extra jump combination would help you win more easily?

Just mho.

[Skittl1321]

Maybe adult nationals needs a bonus ala Russian Nationals. (Men who attempted triple axels or quads got an extra point). You just have to determine what the bonus should be for.

[manleywoman]

Skaters who are not naturally flexible are at an automatic disadvantage, and that doesn't seem right to me.

True. And me subjecting the poor audience and officials to my not-so-flexible spirals just for the sake of points doesn't seem right other. ;)

[Isk8NYC]

True. And me subjecting the poor audience and officials to my not-so-flexible spirals just for the sake of points doesn't seem right other. ;)On the other hand, skaters who have beautiful spirals but are jump-challenged would be at a disadvantage if the scoring changed.

[drskater]

Spent Sunday watching all the Silver Men and all the Bronze Ladies. You guys did an amazing job—I was impressed by each and every one of you. It looked like so much fun! Ladies, you looked gorgeous; I thought your outfits were beautiful (I can’t help myself, I’m like my cats, I love shiny things). What a supportive crowd, too. I’m trying to convince my husband to do ANs in the near future instead of our regular vacation. Your evident camaraderie helps me make my case. Thanks to all who skated and who cheered.

[Stormy]

Agreed. Isn't there talk that the ISU is going to make spirals part of the PCS scores and not a point-getting element? I do hope they do this. Skaters who are not naturally flexible are at an automatic disadvantage, and that doesn't seem right to me.

But you don't necessarily need to be a total Gumby to get good levels on a spiral sequence. The top 6 girls in Gold I got at least a level 2; Elaine even got a 4 and none of them were as flexible as say, Sasha Cohen. Looking at Gold II and III, there were many many spiral sequences called a level 2 and above. Even if you're completely spiral challenged, you could possibly get a level 2. It's a realistic (and easy-ish) way for us to get more points and taking that away doesn't seem right. Almost all of aren't naturally good at something in skating, so where do you draw the line?

[manleywoman]

On the other hand, skaters who have beautiful spirals but are jump-challenged would be at a disadvantage if the scoring changed.

But should a level 4 spiral sequence count so much more than a jump?

[vesperholly]

Versperholly, Totally agree with you! Doubles (which I can't do) are way underrated relative to spirals. IMHO, step sequences are also underrated.

Ehh, I wouldn't go so far as to say doubles are underrated. Skaters who can do good doubles are getting lots of points for them. But ITA with manleywoman above - should level 4 be worth SO much more than a good double sal? Personally, I don't think so. That's the flaw with IJS being tailored to elites. A double sal is "nothing" for them, so it only gets 1.5 points. They're all expected to do level 3/4 spirals, so maybe to encourage it, the authors gave it more points. It's valued similar to triples, but for many adult levels, doubles are their triples. I do agree that step sequences are underrated.

Spirals ... I don't know. It seems to me that any body type can learn edgy footwork, good spins and double jumps, but not everyone can be taught to yank their leg up to their ear. But maybe it's just my preconceived notion that insanely flexible spiral sequences get more points than "regular" spirals. I'll have to rewatch the Gold events to see what kind of spirals are getting level 2 and up.

Almost all of aren't naturally good at something in skating, so where do you draw the line?
Trufax!

[manleywoman]

Ehh, I wouldn't go so far as to say doubles are underrated. Skaters who can do good doubles are getting lots of points for them. But ITA with manleywoman above - should level 4 be worth SO much more than a good double sal? Personally, I don't think so. That's the flaw with IJS being tailored to elites. A double sal is "nothing" for them, so it only gets 1.5 points. They're all expected to do level 3/4 spirals, so maybe to encourage it, the authors gave it more points. It's valued similar to triples, but for many adult levels, doubles are their triples. I do agree that step sequences are underrated.

Well said.

[sk8er1964]

I agree about the spirals - and that is a problem of using IJS for non-elite levels. I wish that step sequences were rewarded far more than spirals, so we'd see more of them (footwork, not spirals).

[NoVa Sk8r]

That's the flaw with IJS being tailored to elites. A double sal is "nothing" for them, so it only gets 1.5 points. They're all expected to do level 3/4 spirals, so maybe to encourage it, the authors gave it more points. It's valued similar to triples, but for many adult levels, doubles are their triples. I do agree that step sequences are underrated.Well said. IJS was created (initially) for senior- and junior-level skaters. Doing a double is a penalty for these skaters, thus the relative low value. Also, those skaters do not have an option of choosing to do footwork versus a spiral sequence, whereas adults get to pick one. I personally do the spiral sequence not because it gets more points (that's nice, of course) but because my footwork just would not be very good.

I must also say that doing a level 3 or 4 spin is VERY difficult and should be rewarded! But for elites, the total points garnered for all jumps in the program mightily trumps the points earned for the spins. For adults, the points are more equal. Whether that is good or bad is something that the adult committee mayhap should look into.

[daisies]

The 6th place finisher in that group decided to take out her axel because she found that she could get more points for a salchow-loop than she would for a clean axel (and remove the possibility for a -GOE, a downgrade and/or a fall).
That combo is worth more than an axel, but the combo and axel take up completely different "boxes" in IJS, so it's not a fair comparison. Your friend used up a combo box with the salchow-loop, so now my question is, what did she replace the axel with?

It's the same at the elite level. Sure, two triple jumps in combination are worth more than a quad, but it's apples and oranges. That solo-jump box that the quad would fill would still be open no matter what combination(s) the skater performs.

Personally, I think that instead of sequences being worth only 80% of their total value, they should be worth 100%, but combos should be worth an extra 10% or 20% because all jumps are harder to do in combination than to do solo.

Also, I agree about the spirals. In my own case, I physically can't do spirals because of my back. So I have to do a step sequence, and it's so much harder to even get a level 3 on steps than it is to get a level 4 on spirals. I will be very interested to see what comes out of the ISU meeting this summer!

[manleywoman]

Whether that is good or bad is something that the adult committee mayhap should look into.

Were you trying to say "maybe" or "perhaps?" :lol:

[daisies]

Total word about the sweepers being distracting. I mean, they're cute and everything, and they did a great job sweeping, but I'd rather not have to explain to them where I'm from, how many miles away that is and how long it took me to get to MN -- while I'm taking my guards off for my six-minute warmup!

[flo]

I think it's also easier to get a higher level with a spiral sequence than a footwork seq. We have a difficult sequence and the points are not worth the effort. We're going to change to a spiral sequence.

[Isk8NYC]

But should a level 4 spiral sequence count so much more than a jump?As I said before, all things being equal in terms of difficulty, the jump should get more points. However, totally discounting spirals isn't the solution since it will discourage anyone from attempting sequences.

Were you trying to say "maybe" or "perhaps?" :lol:
Mayhap means "by chance."

[techskater]

Perhaps the best thing to do would be what Skate Canada did for their lower levels in that no matter what you do, you are capped at it getting called a L1 for their bronze and silver equivalents. Maybe cap Gold and Masters at calling spins and steps/spirals a L2 and any additional feature is taken into account on the GOE?

[techskater]

They were trying to be nice, but, I was focused on my coach's program in his event and they were trying to talk to me while I was watching. I said, I am sorry, but this is important and I need to focus on this, can you ask me again when he's done?

[RachelSk8er]

Perhaps the best thing to do would be what Skate Canada did for their lower levels in that no matter what you do, you are capped at it getting called a L1 for their bronze and silver equivalents. Maybe cap Gold and Masters at calling spins and steps/spirals a L2 and any additional feature is taken into account on the GOE?

That works. It might also encourage more people to do step sequences.

[coskater64]

In Canada and at the ISU they use IJS all the way down, I am told in Canada they have points for waltz jumps, not a lot but they are there. It does seem very hard to get a level 3 step and less difficult to get a level 3 spiral. Of course, like Manleywoman, I will not subject the judges to my spirals. Mind you, I will gladly hang upside down off my partner/coach!!:lol::lol:

[vesperholly]

Maybe cap Gold and Masters at calling spins and steps/spirals a L2 and any additional feature is taken into account on the GOE?
That's a really interesting idea. Kind of like jump/spin limits that are already in existence for most levels. This is what I like about IJS - it's not a perfect system, but flaws can be identified and improved upon.

[sk8er1964]

I like that idea too. Brings the spins/spirals more in line with the single/low double jumps values.

[Stormy]

Perhaps the best thing to do would be what Skate Canada did for their lower levels in that no matter what you do, you are capped at it getting called a L1 for their bronze and silver equivalents. Maybe cap Gold and Masters at calling spins and steps/spirals a L2 and any additional feature is taken into account on the GOE?

I like that idea as well. It defintiely makes it more "fair" for lack of a better word.

[NoVa Sk8r]

Were you trying to say "maybe" or "perhaps?" :lol:I spent too much time at AN hanging out with my skating friends from the South (where I learned the word (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mayhap) and learned to skate). :P
Hmm, a NYer in the Midwest using a Southern word. One of the many other non-skating joys of skating. 8-)

[aussieskater]

Whether that is good or bad is something that the adult committee mayhap should look into.

Were you trying to say "maybe" or "perhaps?" :lol:

Not sure, but isn't that the right use of the word? http://www.thefreedictionary.com/mayhap

Back OT, I'm reading everyone's AN posts with great interest and envy. We don't have an AN system down here, but there's rumour that we might get one soon. Can't wait if it happens! Good luck to all for the rest of the competition - and enjoy the after-parties...:D

[Isk8NYC]

I spent too much time at AN hanging out with my skating friends from the South (where I learned the word (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mayhap) and learned to skate). :P
Hmm, a NYer in the Midwest using a Southern word. One of the many other non-skating joys of skating. 8-)
Is it a southern word? I didn't know that. FWIW, I remember it from a newspaper in NYC when I was a teen. Mayhap is a good word and you used it right. I think people are more accustomed to see "par chance." Which is much more attractive to use because it's French, lol.

I like that idea too. Brings the spins/spirals more in line with the single/low double jumps values.
Not in that order, imo. Spins are more difficult than spirals and should be worth more points. Perhaps spirals=single jumps; spins=double jumps?

[Skittl1321]

Maybe cap Gold and Masters at calling spins and steps/spirals a L2 and any additional feature is taken into account on the GOE?

The only thing I see with this is that getting higher levels called really gets the adult program respect. Kids see on icenetwork that adults did Level 3 spins or spirals and think WOW- because sometimes THEY can't do that yet.

[MusicSkateFan]

:frus:frus::frus::frus:

Here's an idea:

Let's just keep changing the rules until everyone wins a gold medal!

I HIGHLY doubt USFSA will adjust the judging system for adults.

THIS IS WHAT YOU ASKED FOR!!! YOU WANTED IJS SO THAT IT WOULDN'T BE A JUMP CONTEST...HELL YOU EVEN GOT RID OF ALMOST ALL THE DOUBLE JUMPS IN GOLD. YOU EVEN MADE THE NEW CHAMP MASTERS INT/NOV CATERGORY SO MORE PEOPLE WOULD HAVE A CHANCE AT A GOLD MEDAL. NOW YOU DON'T LIKE THAT IS HAS BECOME A SPIN/SPIRAL COMPETITION? MAKE UP YOUR MINDS!

:giveup::giveup::giveup:

[pairman2]

Even if certain elements are not perfectly weighted in the current value system, at least the system is transparent and vastly more fair then 6.0. The stats I initially quoted would have been impossible to cite or analyse under 6.0.
Spins and spirals are real elements and the well balanced requirements actually do keep programs fairly well balanced.

[RachelSk8er]

I actually don't really have an issue (now that I think about it) with spins being worth more than jumps. You only do 3 spins in a program, versus 6 (or more) jumps/jump combos or sequences depending on what level you are. So the points even out there somewhat, or jumps wind up being worth a little more if you put in what you can do consistently and get called.

For example, in champ gold, Rebecca Musick's technical score was 16.78, 8.1 of that was from her jumps and 6.63 came from her spins, 2.05 was her spiral sequence (granted she only got a level 1 and from what I remember, she was going for something higher but had a bobble there). Heather's breakdown was 6.41 for jumps, 5.18 for her spins, and she did rack up 3.10 on her level 3 spiral sequence. For what it's worth, Rochelle was probably one of the best spinners in champ gold and 2 of her spins were called level 1. Actually she probably had the best extension and height on her spirals, and that was still called a level 1 too. So it's not like she even was able to take advantage of her spins/spirals to rack up points and make up for the fact that she struggles more with jumps (no doubles and her axels are usually two footed...I'm not knocking her, she'll tell you the same thing).

And Emily racked up some (well deserved) points on her level 3 step sequence. (I know she's got a different skating background than most gold skaters, but it just goes to show you can get steps called if you work hard at them.)

I don't really have time to sit and do math to see if this trend continues on down or if it's there at other levels, but I'd say that it looks like if you know how to work IJS to your strength, you can do just fine, which is the whole point of IJS anyway. That means not putting in jumps, spins, or spiral/step sequence levels you know will look like crap or are inconsistent and focusing on going for harder levels on whatever your particular strength happens to be. Because a level 1 spiral sequence or spin with high GOEs isn't worth much less than a level 2 with negative GOEs. And at gold, it's not like people are even racking up insane amounts of points on spins.

[Isk8NYC]

:frus:frus::frus::frus:
Let's just keep changing the rules until everyone wins a gold medal!
Why are you shouting? It's just a simple discussion. No one's forcing you to participate. The USFSA doesn't even read this board unless someone sends them a link. Then they arrive and tell everyone to go to their private Facebook page so they can figure out who really said what. Don't worry about an open discussion here changing the rules there, lol.

Since I'm old and decrepit, spins and spirals are my stock in trade, lol. I don't compete, but I'm sure there are some cartiledge-challenged skaters out there who aren't doing doubles well anymore.

[Mrs Redboots]

I agree about the spirals - and that is a problem of using IJS for non-elite levels. I wish that step sequences were rewarded far more than spirals, so we'd see more of them (footwork, not spirals).
My husband put a spiral sequence in his last programme for just that very reason, but he's now gone back to a step sequence simply because he finds it more interesting to do.

And there would be simply no point in my even trying a spiral sequence, as it wouldn't be called - I can't get my leg high enough no matter how hard I try. Except, of course, in our spiral drag combined pose, when I have to be careful not to give the judges the benefit of a splendid view of my underneaths!

[Mrs Redboots]

Back OT, I'm reading everyone's AN posts with great interest and envy. We don't have an AN system down here, but there's rumour that we might get one soon. Can't wait if it happens! Good luck to all for the rest of the competition - and enjoy the after-parties...:D

You've got more than enough adult skaters to put on a good one now.

What I wish is that we had decent after-parties at ours....

[RachelSk8er]

What I wish is that we had decent after-parties at ours....

All you really need for that are skaters + liquor. The ones at our ANs are kind of the same every year. People drink, people get silly, usually certain mens' shirts come off, and then the pairs lifts start...

[Isk8NYC]

All you really need for that are skaters + liquor. The ones at our ANs are kind of the same every year. People drink, people get silly, usually certain mens' shirts come off, and then the pairs lifts start...
I still say that was Lloyd Eisler's REAL reason for wanting to skate at AN, *chuckle*

[Stormy]

:frus:frus::frus::frus:

Here's an idea:

Let's just keep changing the rules until everyone wins a gold medal!

I HIGHLY doubt USFSA will adjust the judging system for adults.

THIS IS WHAT YOU ASKED FOR!!! YOU WANTED IJS SO THAT IT WOULDN'T BE A JUMP CONTEST...HELL YOU EVEN GOT RID OF ALMOST ALL THE DOUBLE JUMPS IN GOLD. YOU EVEN MADE THE NEW CHAMP MASTERS INT/NOV CATERGORY SO MORE PEOPLE WOULD HAVE A CHANCE AT A GOLD MEDAL. NOW YOU DON'T LIKE THAT IS HAS BECOME A SPIN/SPIRAL COMPETITION? MAKE UP YOUR MINDS!

:giveup::giveup::giveup:

Ok, first, stop shouting. It's JUST a discussion, we're not asking for anything to be changed. Second, you know that Intermediate/Novice was added to give the Gold skaters something to move up to when Junior/Senior started becoming less of Gold skaters moving up and more of the returning real Senior level skaters competing. It wasn't so more people could have gold medals. Isn't the one of the points of skating to keep improving and moving up? That's what that level was created for and it's worked very nicely.

[manleywoman]

Is it a southern word? I didn't know that. FWIW, I remember it from a newspaper in NYC when I was a teen. Mayhap is a good word and you used it right. I think people are more accustomed to see "par chance." Which is much more attractive to use because it's French, lol.

Interesting. It's a new word to me, and I'm a big word nut. I thought it was a typo on NoVa's part. One of my favorite comedians, Brian Regan, has a bit where he gets words mixed up by speaking too fast. For example, when you're trying to say "take care" and "good luck" and instead say "take luck." So I thought NoVa was mixing up "maybe" and "perhaps" both of which worked in the original sentence.

Carry on.

[MusicSkateFan]

Ok, first, stop shouting. It's JUST a discussion, we're not asking for anything to be changed. Second, you know that Intermediate/Novice was added to give the Gold skaters something to move up to when Junior/Senior started becoming less of Gold skaters moving up and more of the returning real Senior level skaters competing. It wasn't so more people could have gold medals. Isn't the one of the points of skating to keep improving and moving up? That's what that level was created for and it's worked very nicely.

The thread said rant so I did!

My point is there seems to be a pattern here of complaining followed by rule changes and it just gets to be a big bore! I have been on the complain side too. I was MAJORLY PO'd when Dallas posted a tentative schedule and then 3 weeks before the competition posted a COMPLETELY different one. My complaint was heard and things got changed(sort of). I paid the price I think by magically drawing the 1st to go spot in my group. I won the event with all 1st place ordinals.

My concern is that we need to stop the knee jerk reactions to every adult nationals. I don't think it is helping the competition to grow.

[Isk8NYC]

"Rant" doesn't mean "attack others." You can disagree with others, but be agreeable about it, please. If you're bored by the discussion, no one's forcing you to contribute. However, at least contribute something beneficial. I think your rant would scare off more people than a friendly discussion. Just mho.

It's always good, after any kind of an event (skating or other), to review and rewind while it's still fresh in people's minds. This is an interesting discussion and it's enlightening to read others' perspectives. I enjoy reading about how things are handled outside of the US and I appreciate the skaters from Australia, Canada and the UK who make those contributions. (Plus the pithy comments about the parties, hahahaha!)

I also think these reviews DO help AN because it raises skaters' awareness of the IJS system and how to work it. Maybe pairsman is onto something with his statistics - perhaps the scores have gone up because skaters' understanding of scoring has gone up. There were some posts about how skaters chose spiral sequences over another element to garner more points. That's important to recognize and remember when planning for next year.

Which is what some of the members ARE doing - they're making their plans for next year, keeping themselves informed about scoring and learning new things. There's no harm in that and it might inspire some wallflowers to join in, but not if they felt they'd be attacked for doing "toe waltzes."

[manleywoman]

I was MAJORLY PO'd when Dallas posted a tentative schedule and then 3 weeks before the competition posted a COMPLETELY different one. My complaint was heard and things got changed(sort of).

Believe me, there were a LOT of things to complain about in regards to this ANs. I've never in 11 years complained before to an LOC. Sure, Ive been frustrated by things, but I figure it is what is it, and some years I'm the victim of bad schedules or PI, but next year it will be someone else. Schedules change, practice ice is always difficult, etc etc. And most competitors take it in stride. But this time it was almost like the LOC was going out of its way to piss us off. From nickel and diming everything, being crazy about the credentials, little communication throughout, having club ice in the middle of the competition, and kicking one skater out of the building for having a beer? Sheesh!

And I know some of the masters skaters told the referee they liked having their events split into groups of one, but there were several of us who didn't. And I have yet to talk with a masters skater that was happy about it, so I don't know who they were. But to not even know that until we showed up on Thursday was really inconceivable, especially since on the schedule and website it was different. Then they didn't even have trophies for us, even though we paid the same money as the other competitors!

I think greater basic communication would have helped tremendously in regards to all of it.

Not that this has anything to do with the IJS discussion from earlier, but my point is that having these discussions is helpful. There needs to be a post-mortem on all these events so that we can all collectively figure out a way to make it better the next time.

[w.w.west]

Believe me, there were a LOT of things to complain about in regards to this ANs. I've never in 11 years complained before to an LOC. Sure, Ive been frustrated by things, but I figure it is what is it, and some years I'm the victim of bad schedules or PI, but next year it will be someone else. Schedules change, practice ice is always difficult, etc etc. And most competitors take it in stride. But this time it was almost like the LOC was going out of its way to piss us off. From nickel and diming everything, being crazy about the credentials, little communication throughout, having club ice in the middle of the competition, and kicking one skater out of the building for having a beer? Sheesh!

And I know some of the masters skaters told the referee they liked having their events split into groups of one, but there were several of us who didn't. And I have yet to talk with a masters skater that was happy about it, so I don't know who they were. But to not even know that until we showed up on Thursday was really inconceivable, especially since on the schedule and website it was different. Then they didn't even have trophies for us, even though we paid the same money as the other competitors!

I think greater basic communication would have helped tremendously in regards to all of it.

Not that this has anything to do with the IJS discussion from earlier, but my point is that having these discussions is helpful. There needs to be a post-mortem on all these events so that we can all collectively figure out a way to make it better the next time.

Sounds like I picked a good one to miss. Lots of this stuff sounds like common sense stuff. Club ice in middle of comp.? Really? Wow.

Although I so missed seeing all my skating friends!

[NoVa Sk8r]

One of the competitors at the airport on Sunday told me that she went to the G2C seminar that morning, where she told one of the event organizers that the LOC would be getting A LOT of negative feedback. The organizer looked at her sheepishly and said something like, "Well, we didn't know what we were doing most of the time. This type of event is new for us." Ugh.

Isn't there an AN manual that was created in 2007 and improved upon through 2009 that each LOC is supposed to follow? I don't get it.

And yes, having club ice during our nationals when practice ice is limited is really inexcusable.

[vesperholly]

One of the competitors at the airport on Sunday told me that she went to the G2C seminar that morning, where she told one of the event organizers that the LOC would be getting A LOT of negative feedback. The organizer looked at her sheepishly and said something like, "Well, we didn't know what we were doing most of the time. This type of event is new for us." Ugh.

I heard that St. Paul's club, which has hosted Regionals several times recently, bid on this ANs and lost to Bloomington. Because of the "facilities" - figure that one out.

Not that this has anything to do with the IJS discussion from earlier, but my point is that having these discussions is helpful. There needs to be a post-mortem on all these events so that we can all collectively figure out a way to make it better the next time.
Completely agree, and well said. No one is banging down the door of the USFS president to get spiral levels lowere, and I highly doubt Ottavio Cinquanta is reading Skating Forums. It's a discussion about possible problems and theoretical solutions. If you don't like it, don't read it.

[Mel On Ice]

One of the competitors at the airport on Sunday told me that she went to the G2C seminar that morning, where she told one of the event organizers that the LOC would be getting A LOT of negative feedback. The organizer looked at her sheepishly and said something like, "Well, we didn't know what we were doing most of the time. This type of event is new for us." Ugh.

Isn't there an AN manual that was created in 2007 and improved upon through 2009 that each LOC is supposed to follow? I don't get it.

And yes, having club ice during our nationals when practice ice is limited is really inexcusable.

piss poor excuse if you ask me. they did have the manual available to them AND they came to GR and followed us around to see what we were up to, and we were more than accomodating to them. That they chose their own path and neglected their customer in their race to the dollar is their own fault.

[manleywoman]

Isn't there an AN manual that was created in 2007 and improved upon through 2009 that each LOC is supposed to follow? I don't get it.

Yes, and as Mel said the GR crew gave it to them. But your wording of "supposed to follow" is where the disconnect lies. They are under no obligation to follow it, and the Adult Skating Committee can't force it upon them. It's there as a reference for past best practices and intended to be amended as each LOC improves the practices and finds new ways to make things better (GR did this brilliantly, and I incorporated the changes into the Manual).

I spoke to Lexi wondering why they didn't ask for more help. Lexi said that both she and Tony Conte offered up their help several times, and I'm sure GR did as well as Mel stated. But they told Lexi they were fine and had everything under control. So I'm guessing they either thought they didn't need the help or they just flat out didn't want it.

This is where personally i think we need to have some sort of advocate for the adults on the LOC. Most ANs have had several adult skaters who had been to ANs on their committees, and they know the expectations of the other 500+ adults. This LOC it seems did not. The way it is now, the ASC has no jurisdiction to tell the LOC what to do, they can only make suggestions. There should be a way that the ASC can step in even just a little bit to help oversee how things are working.

They example I've been using this week was Chicago ANs. The referee gave us the schedule two weeks before the event started, which was already later than we wanted to release it. We had competitors beating us down begging for the schedule. So the referee was about to post it, and a few of us adult skaters on the LOC asked if we could look it over. Lo and behold, the ref had put all the Championship events at around 10:00 AM! Every. Last. One. We had to go back to her and strongly advise her to change it or there would be anarchy. She did, thank goodness. But if the adult skaters hadn't seen it ahead of time, and that schedule had gone out, it would have been a mess. So there should be an adult skater familiar with ANs on each LOC to help guide things.

[manleywoman]

Sounds like I picked a good one to miss. Lots of this stuff sounds like common sense stuff. Club ice in middle of comp.? Really? Wow.


Yup. Every day for about 3 hours the club kids would show up to train. How many rinks are there in MN? They couldn't have gone elsewhere for a few days?

And we missed you too!

[jazzpants]

Sounds like I picked a good one to miss. Lots of this stuff sounds like common sense stuff. Club ice in middle of comp.? Really? Wow.

Although I so missed seeing all my skating friends!Hello there, my pretty!!! http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/figuren/k020.gif

Yeah, part of me is glad I missed this one. Of course, I didn't exactly "choose" not to go... the "8 month unpaid forced vacation" forced my hand here... and I do miss everyone this year! :cry:

Club Ice in the middle of the competition?!?!?! WTF!?!?!? You're not kiddin' me, right??? 8O (Was there also a public session too? I saw some pictures of a public session...)

[Skittl1321]

Yup. Every day for about 3 hours the club kids would show up to train. How many rinks are there in MN? They couldn't have gone elsewhere for a few days?


Club ice in the middle of a national competition is absurd. (Though I did once participate in a local competition that had an exhibition by a rival club in the middle of it. They went through the rink and bought up ice time after the date was announced but before the competition organizer got in gear and booked the ice- they all performed mid day, rather than participating in the competition.)

Clubs around here seem to waive guesting fees and allow guest coaches (no harness use though) when there are issues that prevent club ice from happening at other rinks. Surely someone in MN would have done that for these kids.

[manleywoman]

Sounds like I picked a good one to miss.

I felt that way about Dallas after everyone came back upset with that one. Everyone said if I had to miss one, that was the one!

Of course there were great things about this ANs, and there always are: getting to see friends, fun times, pushing ourselves, etc. My friends and I just kept saying as each little weird thing happened that there was no way it could get worse . . . until it did! The icing on the cake was when the skater got kicked out for drinking a beer after all her events were over. Ummm, like ALL of us don't do that? We're over 21! I had an immediate vodka cocktail in my water bottle within minutes of both my events being over, LOL!

[Terri C]

Here's another skater that is glad that she sat out AN this year!
My question is, why did the club bid on AN to start with and then on top of that refuse help from Lexi and Tony when it was offered?

Sad to say, quite a few clubs out there still have no concept of what adult skating is all about. At my last competition a non qual event last September, I showed up at the registration desk to inquire about walking on to a practice session, since I was competing that night. I was told by the parent at registration "There is no ice today, we are having a competition" even after I told her that yes, I was aware of that and scheduled to compete that night.
It then took about 30-45 minutes to get a hold of the competition chair to straighten that out.

It will be worth waiting until June or so to get the location for next year, given that the LOC knows what they are doing!

[lskater]

All you really need for that are skaters + liquor. The ones at our ANs are kind of the same every year. People drink, people get silly, usually certain mens' shirts come off, and then the pairs lifts start...

I'm sorry...couldn't let this one go.....

The pairs lifts start AFTER the drinking????!!!!!

[Terri C]

NoVa mentioned hosting next year's ANs in his back yard. I'm all for that. Actually, I'm not picky. My only request is that we have an ANs where:

1) you can ask a question at the registration desk without receiving a blank stare in return

2) we have sweepers who aren't spending the entire time they are off the ice arguing, poking/slapping/pushing/shoving each other, distracting skaters who are about to compete, dropping crumbled cookies all over the ice (yes, it really happened), and all the other things they were doing (I know they're kids and they're volunteers and the days are long but still...I've never seen it quite like this, the ice monitors were doing more babysitting than ice monitoring)

3) we can get info we need on important things like practice ice and not 937 emails about an ANs blanket

If it means waiting until June to get a club that knows what they are doing when it comes to AN, the wait will be well worth it!

[jazzpants]

I'm sorry...couldn't let this one go.....

The pairs lifts start AFTER the drinking????!!!!!Well, sorta all mixed in there actually if it was like last year's AN. I think I left the party at the time the shirts were off. :halo:

Someone must have forgotten when they ran this competition that we're all over LEGAL DRINKING AGE, huh? :roll:

[RachelSk8er]

One of the competitors at the airport on Sunday told me that she went to the G2C seminar that morning, where she told one of the event organizers that the LOC would be getting A LOT of negative feedback. The organizer looked at her sheepishly and said something like, "Well, we didn't know what we were doing most of the time. This type of event is new for us." Ugh.

Except it's NOT!!! That rink hosted midwest synchro sectionals in 1997 (which is a HUGE competition, biggest qualifying competition in the US, even back then, yes I know that was 13 yrs ago, but still, they've hosted large competitions). Twin Cities Fig Skating Assn JUST hosted synchro nationals in February (not to mention they had to have been involved in the first synchro worlds in 00) and I'm almost surprised that as the umbrella association, they were not involved. And even if the LOC didn't want help from Lexi, the GR crew, or others familiar with adult skating, they have their own parent organization they could have gone to for help/guidance. But that also means sharing $$ with other clubs who get involved, so I'm assuming they didn't want that.

The council of clubs in my area is involved in every single large scale competition we host, regardless of what club's home rink it's at. I'm almost surprised that this club was allowed to go on their own with such a large event.

[Skittl1321]

Total word about the sweepers being distracting. I mean, they're cute and everything, and they did a great job sweeping, but I'd rather not have to explain to them where I'm from, how many miles away that is and how long it took me to get to MN -- while I'm taking my guards off for my six-minute warmup!

I think that's just really personal- I would LOVE that distraction before I go on for an event. I'm fine once I get out on the ice, but I get so nervous you have to practically push me out on the ice if I've been given anytime to think about a competition.

At ISI Synchro Nationals the ice monitors chat with the teams like crazy, and I've noticed monitoring local competitions that the kids chat with each other getting ready for warm up. It's possible they've just never been exposed to "serious" skaters, who use the time for concentration. Politely dismissing them seemed to be the right thing to do.

/man I hope I can get healthy enough to pass Bronze in the next year. I'll be at Nats just to get last place if my body allows it.

[Skittl1321]

I'm sorry...couldn't let this one go.....

The pairs lifts start AFTER the drinking????!!!!!

I think Eligible pairs do that too (off-ice liffts. You need to be drunk to do those at parties). I've seen QUITE a few drunken lift pictures (and a few where it looked like the guy being lifted was also being dropped)

I can kind of understand someone being kicked out for having a beer- what was the rink setting? Is alcohol permitted generally (ie hockey rink)? My rink's in a mall, so it would be a huge no-no to have it openly! (Of course, we aren't a competition rink, just a practice one for where regionals and synchro sectionals has been held)

[Mr. Fan]

Someone must have forgotten when they ran this competition that we're all over LEGAL DRINKING AGE, huh? :roll:

The rink is apparently a city-owned facility, at least that's what the Wifi disclaimer page said. I'm sure city policy was the reason for the no-alcohol rule.

And to reply to a question way back at the beginning, yes men got makeup in their goodie bags too. Looks like there was just one stack of bags.

[manleywoman]

The rink is apparently a city-owned facility, at least that's what the Wifi disclaimer page said. I'm sure city policy was the reason for the no-alcohol rule.

which is fine, but again, it was the lack of communication. They could have posted something somewhere about it! They sent three emails about the blanket but didn't communicate about anything else.

[daisies]

Then they didn't even have trophies for us, even though we paid the same money as the other competitors!
This seriously pissed me off. I know it's just a trophy, just a material thing, and, really, who cares? Plus it weighed a ton and would have put my luggage over Delta's weight limit, and that would have cost me my left arm and leg. (The LOC had already taken the right.)

BUT ... it's the principle. I don't care about a trophy, but I do care about the principle and also setting a bad precedent. There apparently weren't enough trophies because the LOC thought the groups were combined, as did all of us, because that's what the schedule said. But like manleywoman said, we didn't even find out we were "competing" alone until the day before, when the starting orders went up. We weren't asked if that's what we wanted. At the least we should have been informed ahead of time and then offered a refund if we declined to skate alone. But no. So then, on top of all that, those of us who went ahead and skated were treated like second-class citizens in not receiving the same treatment as others who won events with two or more skaters. We didn't even get an explanation as to why; I had to research that on my own.

Pam Crowley of USFS told me to send an e-mail to her detailing all the problems so that she could have documentation, and I suggest everyone else do the same. I'm even going to strongly suggest that either the LOC or USFS send the trophies after the fact to manleywoman, myself and anyone else in our position. Why? Because they're the ones who screwed up, yet they made the skaters pay the price. I totally understand -- and forgive -- miscommunication. What I don't forgive is giving the skater the short end of the stick every time there's a mistake.

Speaking of which....
That they chose their own path and neglected their customer in their race to the dollar is their own fault.
"Race to the dollar" is the perfect phrase. I told some people this on-site, but I really think the competitor badge was a microcosm of the competition: The LOC didn't even bother to put our names on it -- it just said "competitor" -- yet they did see fit to put an advertisement on the back of the badge. Speaks volumes.

[jazzpants]

The rink is apparently a city-owned facility, at least that's what the Wifi disclaimer page said. I'm sure city policy was the reason for the no-alcohol rule.Fine, then there should have been signs all over the rink prohibiting alcohol. I mean, geez, EVERYONE knows there's booze at AN on the rink's premise, whether it's in a wine bottle, beer can or in manleywoman's case, water bottle!!!

MAN!!! Terri and I would have been SOOOO busted if it was this year instead of last year! No Vodka nips for NoVa, no champagne torch for newly minted Bronze Ladies and no sharing the booze at the stands during Championship Masters Men and Champ Adult Gold Men WITH the LOC, huh? :twisted: :P

Not placing blame or being critical here, but this is clearly the AN competition that has gone all wrong!!!

[drskater]

/man I hope I can get healthy enough to pass Bronze in the next year. I'll be at Nats just to get last place if my body allows it.

Yay! I love your attitude. From what I've seen on youtube you can totally do it--just test already!! Of course, you know your body better than me...

[Terri C]

Fine, then there should have been signs all over the rink prohibiting alcohol. I mean, geez, EVERYONE knows there's booze at AN on the rink's premise, whether it's in a wine bottle, beer can or in manleywoman's case, water bottle!!!

MAN!!! Terri and I would have been SOOOO busted if it was this year instead of last year! No Vodka nips for NoVa, no champagne torch for newly minted Bronze Ladies and no sharing the booze at the stands during Championship Masters Men and Champ Adult Gold Men WITH the LOC, huh? :twisted: :P

Or better yet, a e-mail telling of the alcohol ban, but the LOC was sooo obsessed with selling the blanket ( wonder if it was a wet one??!:evil:)

Sounds like common sense did not prevail here. I thoroughly enjoyed my champaigne last year with the LOC and hope to pass the torch next year.

[jazzpants]

Sounds like common sense did not prevail here. I thoroughly enjoyed my champaigne last year with the LOC and hope to pass the torch next year.Translation: Skittl1321 (http://www.skatingforums.com/member.php?u=7717) ... GET GOING on passing your Bronze FS test!!! I've seen you skate. I know you can do it!!! :twisted: :lol: :P

[RachelSk8er]

I think that's just really personal- I would LOVE that distraction before I go on for an event. I'm fine once I get out on the ice, but I get so nervous you have to practically push me out on the ice if I've been given anytime to think about a competition.

No, this wasn't just kids being chatty or doing kid things (like the monitors in Placid who were cute and tried to show off when they went to pick things up). Space at the doors to both rinks at this particular setup was kind of tight between skaters, coaches, the ice monitors and the sweepers (as opposed to some years at ANs where they had the sweepers getting on/off at a different door so they weren't in the way), and in one event they were poking/slapping/pushing each other, arguing and shoving to get on the ice first (as the next skater was trying to get on the same door). It was to the point where the ice monitors were babysitting and yelling at them to behave.

[Skittl1321]

Translation: Skittl1321 (http://www.skatingforums.com/member.php?u=7717) ... GET GOING on passing your Bronze FS test!!! I've seen you skate. I know you can do it!!! :twisted: :lol: :P

I'm trying! Everytime I finally get the damn loop I get hurt again and can't practice.

[sk8er1964]

I can't believe that the hockey players that play in the late late night beer leagues there don't have beer in the locker room. What's the difference with AN?

That was one of the cool things about the Kansas City AN - the bar between the rinks. :halo:

[flo]

I hope that everyone who has a comment does take the time to put it into an e-mail to the USFSA. I would like to see it a requirement to have a certain % of seasoned (not pulled off the street) adult skaters on the LOC and someone put on the adult committee to serve as the Adult Nationals adviser/chair/whatever. It is unacceptable that after 15 nationals, with the majority being highly successful, that such a poor quality event should be allowed to take place.

I would put this AN just above Dallas and Oakland, which does not say much!

[flo]

We had great little sweepers. Very polite, and respectful of what we were doing. The registration desk folks however..... This was the DIY nationals all the way.

[RachelSk8er]

And there were plenty of other stupid little things. Like some of us ran to the bathroom closest to rink 1 in between the end of champ gold and the champ jr/sr men, only to find one of the volunteers (the lady with the interesting hair) guarding the bathroom...it was closed, they had someone in there cleaning it. Routine bathroom cleaning right in between two of the biggest events!! Didn't they realize people would have to actually use the bathroom?

Anne Sinko had a fake rifle for her LE/C interp that was pretty real looking (she was Elmer Fudd) and on the way in the rink, they stopped us and told her no weapons allowed in the rink. The volunteer was totally joking even though she sounded serious, so poor Anne almost freaked out since she kind of needed the gun for her interp. Obviously by this point in the week and all the other ridiculousness (it was Saturday around noon), we would not have been surprised if she didn't allow the gun in!! (Luckily this totally distracted them so I was allowed to sneak by without my credential, since the skating costumes/hair/skate bag/medal around my neck usually were not indicative enough that I was a skater.)

I lost my credential early in the week--Wednesday to be exact, someone must have grabbed it out of the locker room by mistake (I put my name on it), but every time I asked at the registration desk, they stared at me like I was speaking Japanese and then said no, they didn't have any missing credentials. Except they must have had it the whole time, because it was sitting there when I went to pick up my music on Saturday night.

[Mel On Ice]

Translation: Skittl1321 (http://www.skatingforums.com/member.php?u=7717) ... GET GOING on passing your Bronze FS test!!! I've seen you skate. I know you can do it!!! :twisted: :lol: :P

is Skittl our next champagne recipient? Nothing is finer than sipping the sweet, sweet elixer of champagne grapes IN THE STANDS to celebrate an AN debut. If the loop hurts, do a flip.

I am sure there was a liability concern with the rink/city/club/LOC, but there's no reason to be a stick-in-the-*ahem* about it. If anything, sneaking drinks from Rob and Steven made that forbidden cocktail taste better than anything I have drank since I turned 21, for save champagne at my wedding and AN debut. As I said to Rob, I felt like I was a junior in high school sneaking booze from the cool kid at a hockey game.

[flo]

...and good grief, could they have at least put a mirror in the dressing room?

[Clarice]

I lost my credential early in the week--Wednesday to be exact, someone must have grabbed it out of the locker room by mistake (I put my name on it), but every time I asked at the registration desk, they stared at me like I was speaking Japanese and then said no, they didn't have any missing credentials. Except they must have had it the whole time, because it was sitting there when I went to pick up my music on Saturday night.

And so how did you get in? My credential went missing from the locker room sometime on Thursday - between my solo and partnered dance events, warmups, and practices, I was on and off the ice 7 times that day, with costume changes every time. I took my credential off in the morning, stuck it in my bag, and didn't look for it again until the evening. When I couldn't find it, I reported directly to the registration desk, where I was told I could check in at the desk each time and they would verify me on the competitor's list. Except that when I tried to do that, I got dressed down by some girl from USFS and was forced to pay another $20 for a replacement credential. And it would have been $25, except somebody pointed out that I could get two day passes for $20, so they agreed to prorate it. I'm not even as upset about having to pay for it as I am at being treated so badly. Honestly, she talked down to me as if I were 6 years old!

[SkaterBird]

I can't believe that the hockey players that play in the late late night beer leagues there don't have beer in the locker room. What's the difference with AN?

That was one of the cool things about the Kansas City AN - the bar between the rinks. :halo:


Hey - that's MY kind of place! :twisted:

[SkaterBird]

is Skittl our next champagne recipient? Nothing is finer than sipping the sweet, sweet elixer of champagne grapes IN THE STANDS to celebrate an AN debut. If the loop hurts, do a flip.

I am sure there was a liability concern with the rink/city/club/LOC, but there's no reason to be a stick-in-the-*ahem* about it. If anything, sneaking drinks from Rob and Steven made that forbidden cocktail taste better than anything I have drank since I turned 21, for save champagne at my wedding and AN debut. As I said to Rob, I felt like I was a junior in high school sneaking booze from the cool kid at a hockey game.

If it isn't Skittl it'll be me. I am pretty sure I can pass my PreBronze dances by the end of the year, which will make me eligible to do an Interp at ANs, and since Interp (Artistic - I couldn't do comedy to save my life) is what I love most . . . so remember to bring the Champagne, because I intend to drink some, and then some more. :twisted:

[SkaterBird]

Except that when I tried to do that, I got dressed down by some girl from USFS and was forced to pay another $20 for a replacement credential. And it would have been $25, except somebody pointed out that I could get two day passes for $20, so they agreed to prorate it. I'm not even as upset about having to pay for it as I am at being treated so badly. Honestly, she talked down to me as if I were 6 years old!

Sorry about the triple post, but $20.00 for a replacement credential??? That's crazy - the LOC got the credentials basically for free. I know, because I printed them on my home printer and I also supplied about 500 lanyards, given to me for the purpose by a friend who owns a PR firm, and the remaining lanyards and plastic badge pockets were similarly donated.

[sk8er1964]

If it isn't Skittl it'll be me. I am pretty sure I can pass my PreBronze dances by the end of the year, which will make me eligible to do an Interp at ANs, and since Interp (Artistic - I couldn't do comedy to save my life) is what I love most . . . so remember to bring the Champagne, because I intend to drink some, and then some more. :twisted:

Wheee!!!!!!! 8-)

[Clarice]

Sorry about the triple post, but $20.00 for a replacement credential??? That's crazy - the LOC got the credentials basically for free. I know, because I printed them on my home printer and I also supplied about 500 lanyards, given to me for the purpose by a friend who owns a PR firm, and the remaining lanyards and plastic badge pockets were similarly donated.

Yeah, I expected to be charged something - maybe 5 bucks or so - but I thought this was outrageous. She just kept insisting that if it were easy to replace credentials there would be no point in having them. I always thought the only point was so they wouldn't have to verify every athlete off the list every time they walked through the door. I think the real issue is that they were afraid somebody's Aunt Millie might be getting in free with my missing credential, and so they charged me Aunt Millie's admission fee. 'Course, if my name had been printed on the thing in the first place, somebody could have returned it to me. I only wish I'd thought to write on it immediately, but I was kind of preoccupied with other things - like skating.

[daisies]

Sorry about the triple post, but $20.00 for a replacement credential??? That's crazy - the LOC got the credentials basically for free. I know, because I printed them on my home printer and I also supplied about 500 lanyards, given to me for the purpose by a friend who owns a PR firm, and the remaining lanyards and plastic badge pockets were similarly donated.
See, this just pisses me off even more. As both flo and I said above, PLEASE send an e-mail to USFS about all this. This LOC blatantly gouged us. I love how they got all the badges for free yet still couldn't put our names on them. What, ink too expensive? (Actually, I already know the answer to that question, and it's "yes," because when Pam Crowley told them, in my presence, that IJS skaters should be getting their own protocols for free, the LOC chair said no because the paper and ink would cost too much. True story.)

[Clarice]

See, this just pisses me off even more. As both flo and I said above, PLEASE send an e-mail to USFS about all this. This LOC blatantly gouged us. I love how they got all the badges for free yet still couldn't put our names on them. What, ink too expensive? (Actually, I already know the answer to that question, and it's "yes," because when Pam Crowley told them, in my presence, that IJS skaters should be getting their own protocols for free, the LOC chair said no because the paper and ink would cost too much. True story.)

In this case, I don't think we can blame the LOC. They were willing to let me in by just verifying my name on the list. It was the USFS representative who insisted that I pay for it and was not very nice to me.

[Isk8NYC]

when Pam Crowley told them, in my presence, that IJS skaters should be getting their own protocols for freeOur Club gave IJS skaters paper copies of their protocols for free, but I wondered if it would have been better to just email a pdf to the skaters after the event ended.

[flo]

Then please put that in the mail. There's no excuse for charging $20 when it's so easy to verify who we are. This competition is for us, right?????8O

[techskater]

Give the USFS rep a break, she's done 3 Regionals, 1 Sectionals and ANs this year as the "credential Nazi"

[SkaterBird]

I love how they got all the badges for free yet still couldn't put our names on them. What, ink too expensive?

There are two reasons why individual skaters' names weren't on the badges. First, a decision was made (not sure by whom) that it would be simpler and more efficient to simply have "Skater" or "Competitor" on the competitors' badges because that way a credential could just be put into each skater's gift bag, rather than matching the skaters and credentials as the skaters checked in. Also, the chair of the LOC got the complete list of skaters pretty late from USFS - I know that too, because I had asked for the list of skaters shortly after registration closed in January so that I could begin printing individualized credentials for everyone as early as possible and avoid a last-minute time crunch. However, the complete list wasn't made available until March, which would have made it tight, time-wise, getting an individualized credential for everyone as I was doing them all in the evenings on my home computer. I could have divided the job with someone else, but by that time I think everyone was pretty busy. Beyond that I don't know how the decisions were made - I volunteered to do credentials and that was pretty much all I had time for.

[flo]

Then three regionals and 1 sectionals is one too many, still no excuse for being rude.

[w.w.west]

Hello there, my pretty!!! http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/figuren/k020.gif

Yeah, part of me is glad I missed this one. Of course, I didn't exactly "choose" not to go... the "8 month unpaid forced vacation" forced my hand here... and I do miss everyone this year! :cry:

Club Ice in the middle of the competition?!?!?! WTF!?!?!? You're not kiddin' me, right??? 8O (Was there also a public session too? I saw some pictures of a public session...)

Well...that farm girl never returned the ruby slippers and I was so mad that I turned really green so figured I better not come. LOL

Actually, I had a good reason too. I was direction an ice show and didn't really have a choice in the date since I was asked to direct after date had been picked.

Sheesh....what a mishap. Hope everyone had fun regardless thoughl

[w.w.west]

Yup. Every day for about 3 hours the club kids would show up to train. How many rinks are there in MN? They couldn't have gone elsewhere for a few days?

And we missed you too!

Wow...interesting.

On a better note though....how did it feel to be in Championship round? : )

[mskater]

Word to that entire post, Rachel. Those sweeper girls earned the warning we were given about tossies ...

Vesper, your commentary, especially during Championship Master's Jun/Sen men was hilarious! (comment after a skater fell on a 2-sal and "rolled" over on the fall) - "I wonder if he gets extra points for a difficult exit?" So good!

[daisies]

Our Club gave IJS skaters paper copies of their protocols for free, but I wondered if it would have been better to just email a pdf to the skaters after the event ended.
You should get it at the same time the results are posted, so that if there is an issue you or your coach can talk to the referee about it.

There are two reasons why individual skaters' names weren't on the badges ... I volunteered to do credentials and that was pretty much all I had time for.
Thank you very much for volunteering your time. I hope you don't think I was blaming you. Names on badges are a small thing and wouldn't have even pinged my radar had it not been for all the other problems we faced as competitors. A lot of straws combined to break the camel's back!

w.w.west, you were very much missed! It just wasn't the same without you!

[SkaterBird]

I hope you don't think I was blaming you. Names on badges are a small thing and wouldn't have even pinged my radar had it not been for all the other problems we faced as competitors.

I don't think that at all - it is just the one thing about the event that I do have some information about.

I think that some of the concerns and issues raised here are worth bringing to the GC's attention, though. It might be a good idea to require the chair or co-chair of any future Adult Nationals to be an adult skater who has been to at least two or three ANs, and/or to require the LOC to consult with an ASC liaison on a regular schedule from the time the event is awarded until the event is actually completed. That might help everyone get on the same page regarding expectations.

[Mel On Ice]

If it isn't Skittl it'll be me. I am pretty sure I can pass my PreBronze dances by the end of the year, which will make me eligible to do an Interp at ANs, and since Interp (Artistic - I couldn't do comedy to save my life) is what I love most . . . so remember to bring the Champagne, because I intend to drink some, and then some more. :twisted:

oh she who had a few too many pulls on my "slushie"... I bought my own champagne in 2005, then bought for jazzpants in 2008. Jazzpants bought for Terri C in 2009. It will be Terri's responsibility to buy for you or Skittl when the time comes.

[vesperholly]

It might be a good idea to require the chair or co-chair of any future Adult Nationals to be an adult skater who has been to at least two or three ANs, and/or to require the LOC to consult with an ASC liaison on a regular schedule from the time the event is awarded until the event is actually completed.

Agreed - a mentor of sorts would be fantastically helpful. Then again, it sounds like the LOC was too bullheaded to ask for help anyways, so it's another case of "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

[w.w.west]

w.w.west, you were very much missed! It just wasn't the same without you!

Thanks. :) I'm coming to GC though....see you there?

[vesperholly]

Vesper, your commentary, especially during Championship Master's Jun/Sen men was hilarious! (comment after a skater fell on a 2-sal and "rolled" over on the fall) - "I wonder if he gets extra points for a difficult exit?" So good!

lol thanks! we can haz fun timez! However I cannot claim credit for the best line of the night: "It's iTouch, not you touch!" LMFAO.

Ooh AZ ... I'm thinking Phoenix or a suburb. Coyotes FSC of Arizona is a pretty big club, they've had a few Regionals IIRC?

[SkaterBird]

oh she who had a few too many pulls on my "slushie"... I bought my own champagne in 2005, then bought for jazzpants in 2008. Jazzpants bought for Terri C in 2009. It will be Terri's responsibility to buy for you or Skittl when the time comes.

Sweetie, I seem to recall returning the favor on Saturday night with a few nips of my specially-enhanced OJ. Not to worry, though - if I really do manage to make it to ANs with an Interp (and it may well be a version of the one I have now because I love it), I will be certain to bring the Champagne myself. Count on it. And I'll bring good stuff, too - Chandon Brut, maybe even Perrier-Jouet Blanc de Noir. Just saying.

[Mel On Ice]

mmmm, forgot about the OJ. No, you should not have to buy your own, the Bronze for Life pact was that the courtesy be passed down. It's tradition. Terri will honor it, or else see to it that someone does.

[SkaterBird]

Hee! Believe me, if I ever do make it to ANs as a competitor - Interp or anything else - there will be plenty of Champagne to go around. Also caramels, if I can stand to make them again. And, if the venue is within driving distance, there will be lemon squares (I make divine lemon squares) and maybe a chocolate cake or two. I will do it up in STYLE!!! :twisted: And if the rink won't allow Champagne, well, I have a big duffel bag - and you will all know which room I'm in anyway, so . . .

[jazzpants]

oh she who had a few too many pulls on my "slushie"... I bought my own champagne in 2005, then bought for jazzpants in 2008. Jazzpants bought for Terri C in 2009. It will be Terri's responsibility to buy for you or Skittl when the time comes.Yup! And the bottle should be big enough for a small (like group of about 10 people... knowing the time I passed down the bottle to Terri, I was glad I brought a HUGE champagne bottle -- it went FAST!!! 8O And I guarantee you... you will be QUITE popular -- as Terri was then!!! :twisted: :P :lol:

Funniest part of last year's champagne fest was dcden doing this hand gesturing as he was coming on the ice for his Champ Adult Gold skate to give him a few minutes and he will join us for a drink!!! :lol: (Sorry, dcden! It was ALL gone by then!!! Not sure if I remembered to slip him a "nip" either.)

[RachelSk8er]

See, this just pisses me off even more. As both flo and I said above, PLEASE send an e-mail to USFS about all this. This LOC blatantly gouged us. I love how they got all the badges for free yet still couldn't put our names on them. What, ink too expensive? (Actually, I already know the answer to that question, and it's "yes," because when Pam Crowley told them, in my presence, that IJS skaters should be getting their own protocols for free, the LOC chair said no because the paper and ink would cost too much. True story.)

And it's not the fact that we were constantly hounded for credentials, it's that we were not WARNED ahead of time that this would be enforced.

I'm used to having to flash the badge. It's typically enforced at synchro nationals. To the point where team managers keep them all and give them to us as we are on the way to the rink, and collect them all when we leave the rink, so they are not lost (yes, even for our adult team I was on, since we were part of a large club with teams on down through juvenile).

But the issue was that it's NEVER enforced at adult nationals, at least not at any of the 4 I've been to. Sure, we get them, sure, people might be wearing them, and sometimes we are asked for them for the first day or so if we're in street clothes, but that's really it. Like in Lake Placid, they had people at the entrance to the '80 arena asking for the first day or so, or if people were in street clothes. But once it was obvious that someone was a skater--they had a costume on, they had their hair up and a crapload of make-up on, they were wearing a medal around their neck, or after a few days the people checking started to recognize faces--no one asked. Coming off of GR, we were spoiled since the LOC pretty much knew all the "regulars".

So moral of the story I guess is that if you're going to be enforcing us and requiring us to wear it at all times, at least warn us ahead of time so that we know what to expect. A simple email ahead of time would have worked. We're adult skaters, many of whom have been doing ANs for years, and tend to expect that certain things will be a certain way. (Again, this is something that having an adult skater on the LOC would have been able to point out.)

[RachelSk8er]

Vesper, your commentary, especially during Championship Master's Jun/Sen men was hilarious! (comment after a skater fell on a 2-sal and "rolled" over on the fall) - "I wonder if he gets extra points for a difficult exit?" So good!

Oh man all of us in our posse were on such a roll all week. I wish we had a recorder to pick up some of the stuff we were saying.

[Mrs Redboots]

All you really need for that are skaters + liquor. The ones at our ANs are kind of the same every year. People drink, people get silly, usually certain mens' shirts come off, and then the pairs lifts start...

I know those lifts - we've done some of them at the Mountain Cup.....

I'm sorry...couldn't let this one go.....

The pairs lifts start AFTER the drinking????!!!!!

Well, we're not fool enough to let ourselves be lifted when we're sober! I did, at one stage, have photos.... (flo, you were there, I think!)


...and good grief, could they have at least put a mirror in the dressing room?

A mirror in the dressing-room? Good grief, I'd think I'd died and gone to heaven if such luxury existed - that's practically unknown here. I've learnt to bring a small one in my make-up bag, and have lent it round to many people in my time....

[Mrs Redboots]

We had great little sweepers. Very polite, and respectful of what we were doing. The registration desk folks however..... This was the DIY nationals all the way.
We don't usually get them at our adult championships, but one year we did.... and they ended up eating all the judges' sandwiches and got into trouble!

[RachelSk8er]

A mirror in the dressing-room? Good grief, I'd think I'd died and gone to heaven if such luxury existed - that's practically unknown here. I've learnt to bring a small one in my make-up bag, and have lent it round to many people in my time....

Oh yeah, both GR and LP we had plenty of mirrors, there were little baskets of safety pins, q-tips, hairspray, tissues, safety pins (you know, the little stuff you normally have with you at competitions EXECPT for when you actually need it). I want to say Chicago did too but I don't really remember, I've blocked most of that ANs out of my memory (due to dance partner making my trip miserable, NOT anything the LOC did).

[blue111moon]

LOL, Annabel! Having skated in all the places we've skated over the years, I have to wonder if the AN people realize how spoiled we are in the US as compared to the rest of the world (where having a seat on the toilet is considered a luxury!)

More seriously though, in reading this thread (and the others like it that crop up after every adult competition), I don't wonder why USFS has such a hard time getting clubs to host AN. Adults have an unfortunate reputation of being "difficult" and threads like this only reinforce that. Why should a club bid on a competition as large as AN unless they already have a huge adult membership (and how many of those are there?) or they want to make money? With ice costs in some rinks topping $300 an hour, the clubs have to recoup somehow. And all the people running these things are volunteers, not professional event organizers. I think that as adults, we should be mature enough to recognise that and behave accordingly.

Of course, I also think that as adults, we should be mature enough to act responsibly and keep track of credentials. At kid Nationals, a lost credential can cost $500 to replace. If I lose my company credential, it costs me $100 and half a day's work to drive to HQ to get a new one. And just wearing a jacket and hard hat with the company logo on it won't get me past the guard without an ID. It's not a tough concept.

And why do we need written instructions for every little thing? As far as I know, drinking alcohol in a public facility that doesn't sell alcohol is against the law almost everywhere in the US. (In France, now, ..... :) )

Yes, I know AN i s supposed to be fun and yet somehow still a serious competition at the same time. But the ting is, sometimes you can't have everything. If you want a serious competition where skaters are treated like "real skaters" then you'll have stuff like credential checks and schedule issues and clueless/overworked/rude volunteers to deal with. If you want a relaxed, fun event where you can have a good time without too many rules or restrictions, then some of the seriousness is going to fall by the wayside and you might not be treated with the respect you feel adult skaters deserve.

Anyway, if clubs aren't lining up to bid on AN (and Adult Sectionals), I don't think we have to look further than this thread to see why. It's a lot of work, a lot of expense and little potential reward. I know I wouldn't want to bother and reading all the griping and abuse, I can't think of why anyone else would.

[Terri C]

But at kiddie Nationals, do they have a practice scheduling system so confusing that the practices get oversold to where the LOC asks skaters to switch practices a few days before everything starts?? They also have their names on their credentials too, right?

[Stormy]

I don't think it's fair to compare ANs to kid Nationals. We should be so lucky to be treated that well. They have credentials that could $500 in the first place, not pieces of paper in a plastic holder. Having a few replacement credentials on hand for those who are bound to misplace them shouldn't be a huge deal. If we had "real" credentials like the kids have, none of us would be having an issue with being asked for money to replace them. Kid nationals would never, EVER be subjected to the practice ice debacle we had. We don't NEED written instructions for every little thing, but if it's not going to be consistent year after year, all we ask is for a little communication about things that matter, not about a damn blanket. The kids get all sorts of stuff at their nationals that we won't ever get probably, so it's not comparing apples to apples.

I have zero issue with an LOC wanting to make a profit, after all, that is the point of hosting a competition. But past LOCs have made a profit and not charged $20 for a 25 minute practice ice and $25 for the competitors party. We were blatantly being treated as cash cows and that was the major major issue we all have. And then it was all the little things compiled together that just made us all angrier.

[flo]

Bluemoon, how many AN's have you participated in? The skaters are not being "difficult" at all. We realize the effort required to conduct an AN and do appreciate it, as with last year, when that effort is made. It's not that we don't realize that we need to take care of our tags and so on, but do not appreciate being treated so rudely.

[rlichtefeld]

I haven't heard one person using vocals for their freeskates, which I'm really happy about. I was very much against it at Governing Council last year for adults and I'm glad to see it hasn't caught on.

We used very limited vocals in our Silver Pairs music. You can see it and hear the music here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAK1f4QgSFE
There are a few "Go Daddy Go"s

I did hear a Masters Ladies Int/Nov that had "vocals" in it. Not quite Enya, but did have discernible words.

Rob

[flying~camel]

There was also a woman in Silver II who had vocals in her freeskate music.

[Audryb]

Is it an icenetwork thing, or a problem with the actual recording of the events that's causing all the AN videos to be stretched horizontally? It's not very flattering to the competitors...

(I suppose it could be a problem on my computer, but I've watched in two different browsers on two different computers with different operating systems, so I don't think that's it.)

[mskater]

I spent too much time at AN hanging out with my skating friends from the South (where I learned the word (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mayhap) and learned to skate). :P
Hmm, a NYer in the Midwest using a Southern word. One of the many other non-skating joys of skating. 8-)

This is so funny! I am the "mayhap" culprit - I picked it up a while back reading an Arthurian Romance Novel and just can't let it go. I say it way too much and use it in writing too much as well:] Love that it's penetrating and spreading up into the North-East. See Nova, if you come back down to NC you'll expand your already vast vocabulary:]

[RachelSk8er]

I don't think it's fair to compare ANs to kid Nationals. We should be so lucky to be treated that well. They have credentials that could $500 in the first place, not pieces of paper in a plastic holder. Having a few replacement credentials on hand for those who are bound to misplace them shouldn't be a huge deal. If we had "real" credentials like the kids have, none of us would be having an issue with being asked for money to replace them. Kid nationals would never, EVER be subjected to the practice ice debacle we had. We don't NEED written instructions for every little thing, but if it's not going to be consistent year after year, all we ask is for a little communication about things that matter, not about a damn blanket. The kids get all sorts of stuff at their nationals that we won't ever get probably, so it's not comparing apples to apples.

I have zero issue with an LOC wanting to make a profit, after all, that is the point of hosting a competition. But past LOCs have made a profit and not charged $20 for a 25 minute practice ice and $25 for the competitors party. We were blatantly being treated as cash cows and that was the major major issue we all have. And then it was all the little things compiled together that just made us all angrier.

Most of the stuff we're complaining about (practice ice debacles, having to pay for warm-ups, volunteers not really being able to answer questions, etc) would NEVER EVER EVER be acceptable at a US Nationals or a Junior Nationals. US Figure Skating just wouldn't allow it, and a close enough eye is kept on the LOC to make sure these things do not happen. To even volunteer at US Nationals or JNs, you need to go through a background check and there was a ton of mandatory volunteer training leading up to each competition, especially when it came to US nationals. So really, you can't compare the two.

Part of the reason for all of that at US Nationals/JNs is obvious...you've got children/teenagers competing and, when it comes to the senior level, some "famous" athletes competing. So of course you need to do background checks on volunteers and be strict about credentials for the skaters, coaches, chaperones, etc to be sure that everyone who has access to the child/teenage skaters who are in the locker rooms or other restricted areas of the arena without parents/coaches around all the time, or who has access to press areas (and therefore Scott, Dick, Peggy, and whomever else they have commentating) is not some crazed psychopath. There is a legit security reason.

As for adult nationals...come on...we don't need that. We're all adults. No one is famous, we are not some high profile event. Heck, some of the skaters themselves are a little nuts. The whole reason they were being picky about credentials (when again, no other ANs in recent years has) was for monetary reasons.

[mskater]

Oh man all of us in our posse were on such a roll all week. I wish we had a recorder to pick up some of the stuff we were saying.

Indeed! I'll bring a notepad next year so I can jot down all of our "silly-isms" :]

[harmony]

A traveling "Quote Board"! That's exactly what we need! Although that's going to be a long list after 4 days. =)

[RachelSk8er]

Indeed! I'll bring a notepad next year so I can jot down all of our "silly-isms" :]

Stormy and I want a camera crew to follow us around at competitions because we feel we'd make for some really exciting reality TV.

[doubletoe]

I have zero issue with an LOC wanting to make a profit, after all, that is the point of hosting a competition. But past LOCs have made a profit and not charged $20 for a 25 minute practice ice and $25 for the competitors party. We were blatantly being treated as cash cows and that was the major major issue we all have. And then it was all the little things compiled together that just made us all angrier.

Well put, and my sentiments exactly. I went 8O at the practice ice cost and did another 8O at the extra charge for warmup ice, then was :roll: at the cost of the competitors' party (which I paid for, then was too tired to attend), but I let all that slide. When I reached the end of my tether was when I asked for my protocol sheet after my IJS event and was told it would cost me $5.00!! And I didn't even have the option of buying just MY protocol sheet. Ethically, that's along the lines of taking someone on an "all inclusive" desert tour, then charging them an exhorbitant price for water once they're in the middle of the Sahara.
As Daisies pointed out, it is the right of every skater competing under IJS to get a copy of her own protocol sheet when the scores come out, and the poor, clueless volunteer to whom I was trying to explain this probably thought I was kind of a b*tch (I could tell that her defensive supervisor did!).
USFSA really needs to set limits on what the LOC is allowed to charge for anything that they have a monopoly on.

Now, on a positive note, the sweeper girls were the best thing about the event and I am glad I had a chance to praise them to the sweeper organizer. They were awesome.

[drskater]

Stormy and I want a camera crew to follow us around at competitions because we feel we'd make for some really exciting reality TV.

OMG--that would be brilliant! In this day and age it's totally feasible. The real question might be: how much bleeping bleep! would it take bleep! to get an authentic bleep! of the goings-on?!! And most importantly, do participants share their drinking-recipes?

If my husband competes in AN before I do, I'm all too happy to be the sidelines camera-girl. Ha ha

[vesperholly]

More seriously though, in reading this thread (and the others like it that crop up after every adult competition), I don't wonder why USFS has such a hard time getting clubs to host AN. Adults have an unfortunate reputation of being "difficult" and threads like this only reinforce that.
We're difficult?! Have you ever met a "skating mom"?? With whom do adults have a "difficult" reputation, exactly? If you think we're being difficult, that's a whole separate thing than accusing adults of having a bad reputation across the board. In my experience, adult skaters are the most knowledgeable and conscientious skaters out there. Of course there are a few crazies, but there are crazies everywhere.

At kid Nationals, a lost credential can cost $500 to replace.
Uh, what? Where did you get that information? I worked the registration desk at 2000 US Nationals and they printed out your credential on a plastic card right there - I got the same kind of credential as a volunteer that the competitors did. It was the same system still in place at the 2005 Junior Worlds. My rink does the same kind of credentials for its town residency cards for under 5 bucks. There is no way that replacing one lost credential costs anywhere near $500.

[sk8er1964]

We're difficult?! Have you ever met a "skating mom"?? With whom do adults have a "difficult" reputation, exactly? If you think we're being difficult, that's a whole separate thing than accusing adults of having a bad reputation across the board. In my experience, adult skaters are the most knowledgeable and conscientious skaters out there. Of course there are a few crazies, but there are crazies everywhere.

Actually, I've heard that too from people who have been involved in running clubs/competitions. May be more rumor than fact (like the one where Adult Sectionals lose money, which they don't), but it is a perception in some parts of skating.

[Stormy]

We're difficult?! Have you ever met a "skating mom"?? With whom do adults have a "difficult" reputation, exactly? If you think we're being difficult, that's a whole separate thing than accusing adults of having a bad reputation across the board. In my experience, adult skaters are the most knowledgeable and conscientious skaters out there. Of course there are a few crazies, but there are crazies everywhere.
Uh, what? Where did you get that information? I worked the registration desk at 2000 US Nationals and they printed out your credential on a plastic card right there - I got the same kind of credential as a volunteer that the competitors did. It was the same system still in place at the 2005 Junior Worlds. My rink does the same kind of credentials for its town residency cards for under 5 bucks. There is no way that replacing one lost credential costs anywhere near $500.

In her defense, Blue111Moon has been to ANs, and the adult competitions overseas, and runs a yearly club competition and a LOT more. As for the replacement fee for the credentials, her info is likely accurate. She's been involved in skating a lot longer than most of us have. She does know of what she speaks.

And like 1964 said, I've also heard that we're considered difficult sometimes. And hopefully it is more rumor than fact. But I didn't hear complaints about last year's ANs, so all the LOC has to do is get it right in the first place and we'll all be happy. :)

[manleywoman]

I wasn't surprised we were charged $5 for the Official WU. Ann Dougherty told me years ago that at the first ANs there was extra ice so they decided to give everyone an extra 15-20 minutes. Over time it became expected, and as the schedule got tighter and busier it became expensive to give that ice away for free. So I knew that was coming. And the party has always been a loss leader, so I wasn't surprised they charged more for that too (though they could have gone for $20 over $25). I will say was surprised that the protocols cost $5, especially when I was competing against myself! $5 for four pieces of paper?

For me, it was more the lack of communication about it all. Having run an ANs before, I knew about the potential costs. But nobody else did! They all showed up and it was $5 for this, $20 for that, $25 for this, $5 more for that, $xx to replace a credential, etc etc etc.

Next time there should be something in the Announcement or on the website about cost breakdowns for all these items.

[sexyskates]

Well, I personally had a wonderful time at this AN and the other 9 I've attended. No one mentioned the lovely, warm, sunny weather we were fortunate to have - MN having a reputation for being cold. I loved the wetlands surrounding the rink, with a beautiful trail leading to a view of trumpeter swans. I found a stroll through nature before competing very relaxing. The blue glass trophey vases were also extra nice. I was thrilled to win one for my artistic interp - it's quite solid, weighing over 4 1/2 pounds!

[Clarice]

Uh, what? Where did you get that information? I worked the registration desk at 2000 US Nationals and they printed out your credential on a plastic card right there - I got the same kind of credential as a volunteer that the competitors did. It was the same system still in place at the 2005 Junior Worlds. My rink does the same kind of credentials for its town residency cards for under 5 bucks. There is no way that replacing one lost credential costs anywhere near $500.

I doubt it costs $500 to replace a credential. The problem is that somebody who picks up that credential effectively has their hands on an all-event pass. THAT'S what they're charging for - the potential loss of revenue from the person who might be using your lost credential. I didn't like being charged to replace my credential, but I sort of understood the logic. My major complaint was with the way I was treated.

[doubletoe]

I wasn't surprised we were charged $5 for the Official WU. Ann Dougherty told me years ago that at the first ANs there was extra ice so they decided to give everyone an extra 15-20 minutes. Over time it became expected, and as the schedule got tighter and busier it became expensive to give that ice away for free. So I knew that was coming. And the party has always been a loss leader, so I wasn't surprised they charged more for that too (though they could have gone for $20 over $25). I will say was surprised that the protocols cost $5, especially when I was competing against myself! $5 for four pieces of paper?

For me, it was more the lack of communication about it all. Having run an ANs before, I knew about the potential costs. But nobody else did! They all showed up and it was $5 for this, $20 for that, $25 for this, $5 more for that, $xx to replace a credential, etc etc etc.

Next time there should be something in the Announcement or on the website about cost breakdowns for all these items.

Agreed. If there's full disclosure and we consent, we might not like it but we can't technically call it rape,LOL!

I doubt it costs $500 to replace a credential. The problem is that somebody who picks up that credential effectively has their hands on an all-event pass. THAT'S what they're charging for - the potential loss of revenue from the person who might be using your lost credential.

Right. Because Adult Nationals is a HUGE spectator event! :lol:

[RachelSk8er]

And like 1964 said, I've also heard that we're considered difficult sometimes. And hopefully it is more rumor than fact. But I didn't hear complaints about last year's ANs, so all the LOC has to do is get it right in the first place and we'll all be happy. :)

I think the difference is that when we're not happy, we actually speak out. After all, this is OUR competition that we do go to year after year. We have expectations from being there every year, and know how things usually are or should be done. We're not the mom of some intermediate skater who qualified for JNs for the first time, has no idea what to expect, and may never see a national competition ever again and therefore may not even notice when things aren't quite right. Or who keeps their mouth shut because they don't want to ruin their kid's experience. (Although from my experience, the coaches who know the ropes at those type of events will speak out. I got reamed out by a coach at JNs a few years ago while I was ice monitoring for practice ice because the coffee in the coaches' hospitality room wasn't hot enough.)

[flo]

Well said Rachael.

[vesperholly]

In her defense, Blue111Moon has been to ANs, and the adult competitions overseas, and runs a yearly club competition and a LOT more. As for the replacement fee for the credentials, her info is likely accurate. She's been involved in skating a lot longer than most of us have. She does know of what she speaks.

I confess to not knowing who Blue111Moon is offline, so my apologies to her if I insinuated that she don't know what she's talking about. It's pretty disappointing that someone so experienced with adult skating would have that impression about adults, and feel that that's our reputation. I don't doubt that there are enough crazies out there to earn a difficult reputation.

Speaking on those in this thread, I think there's a difference between being difficult and having realistic expectations of how a competition should run. We've had some very well-run competitions in the recent past. After 15 years of ANs and the amount of institutional knowledge and experience available, there's simply no excuse for the LOC to run a competition this poorly.

[NoVa Sk8r]

This is so funny! I am the "mayhap" culprit - I picked it up a while back reading an Arthurian Romance Novel and just can't let it go. I say it way too much and use it in writing too much as well:] Love that it's penetrating and spreading up into the Northeast. See Nova, if you come back down to NC you'll expand your already vast vocabulary:]No, I've heard it multiple times when I lived in the Tar Heel State, including from my graduate school department secretary, an assistant professor from a different department, and from another skater at a rink. Unless, of course, y'all were reading the same book! :lol:

I would love to move back down South. It just may happen.

[mskater]

No, I've heard it multiple times when I lived in the Tar Heel State, including from my graduate school department secretary, an assistant professor from a different department, and from another skater at a rink. Unless, of course, y'all were reading the same book! :lol:

I would love to move back down South. It just may happen.


That's pure B.S. - I've never heard this word ever from a "southerner" and I've lived here all my life. And Chris is about as down-home as you can get and he ain't never heard it neither:] But you should definitely move back! We have lots of great coaches here like Elena Bechke for starters:]

[NoVa Sk8r]

That's pure B.S. - I've never heard this word ever from a "southerner" and I've lived here all my life. And Chris is about as down-home as you can get and he ain't never heard it neither:] But you should definitely move back! We have lots of great coaches here like Elena Bechke for starters:]I've definitely heard it down south. Some of those folks were from Kentucky though. Not sure if you consider that the South (just as NC is not included in the "Deep South").

Elena Betchke scares me. She is one fierce skater!

To get back to AN ... did anyone attend the G2C Grassroots to Champions seminar with Audrey Weisiger?

[Mrs Redboots]

LOL, Annabel! Having skated in all the places we've skated over the years, I have to wonder if the AN people realize how spoiled we are in the US as compared to the rest of the world (where having a seat on the toilet is considered a luxury!)Let's be fair, there is a mirror in the shower room at Villard-de-Lans! Sort of, if you don't mind sharing it with everybody else and being yelled at because the connecting doors are open and someone wants to get naked without the guys all seeing!

As far as I know, drinking alcohol in a public facility that doesn't sell alcohol is against the law almost everywhere in the US. (In France, now, ..... :) )Are you going to buy me my post-competition beer this year, since James won't be there to do it????

Seriously, folks, I read this thread with my mouth open - and I've been to a couple of US Adult Nationals, too, as a spectator - and honestly, most of you simply don't know you're born when you look at your ANs and then at, say, our Adult Championships or an Adult Open in this country.

Although having said that, I should hate closed marking and your rather hole-in-corner presentations! I do like our on-ice presentations at the end of the day, although I don't like the every-skater presentations they do in France when you've come last, you're tired, and all you want to do is collapse in a corner with a stiff drink and take your contact lenses out!

[blue111moon]

Bluemoon, how many AN's have you participated in? .


At last count six as a skater. I've turned down opportunities to be there as an official because I have limited vacation time and prefer to use it for personal travel. (and Frequently AN conflicts with my Club competition where they would lynch me if I didn't show up! :) )

Thanks for the defense, Stormy. I have been around a loooooooonnnnnnngggggg time, haven't I?

Annabel, of course your beer's on me! I may even consent to a glas of wine myself, just to recover from the shock of actually wearing the interp costume we've designed in front of people! :) As for the mirror issue, I think the thing that sharply reminds me I'm in Europe is when I'm standing there doing makeup and a naked man walks in from the other to use the shower. :)

[Stormy]

Blue111moon, speaking of your club's competition, I didn't get a chance to see you there but excellent job as always. Having IJS for the Gold events right before ANs was invaluable!! :bow:

[Terri C]

I had a thought that just occured to me.
The last time a AN's went awry was Dallas in 2006. The one thing that that one and this one had in common was both were during a Olympic season.
Could it be that the PTB are so focused on the Olympics that we are left in the cold ( no pun intended)? Just a random thought here.

[sk8er1964]

Weren't the problems in Dallas mostly facilities related?

I wasn't at Dallas, the most recent Lake Placid (where they had ice/zamboni problems) or this last one. Now there's a common theme. Hmmm...... ;)

[Isk8NYC]

That explains it then - you simply MUST attend every AN in the future.

All problems solved!

[vesperholly]

That's pure B.S. - I've never heard this word ever from a "southerner" and I've lived here all my life. And Chris is about as down-home as you can get and he ain't never heard it neither:] But you should definitely move back! We have lots of great coaches here like Elena Bechke for starters:]

I was watching "Up" last night and one of the dogs said "mayhap" ... ! 8O

[icedancer2]

Well, I personally had a wonderful time at this AN and the other 9 I've attended. No one mentioned the lovely, warm, sunny weather we were fortunate to have - MN having a reputation for being cold. I loved the wetlands surrounding the rink, with a beautiful trail leading to a view of trumpeter swans. I found a stroll through nature before competing very relaxing. The blue glass trophey vases were also extra nice. I was thrilled to win one for my artistic interp - it's quite solid, weighing over 4 1/2 pounds!


Congratulations!!

[sexyskates]

Thanks Icedancer2. I also won a bronze medal in Bronze Solo dance - that was a shocker, since I don't consider my Hickory Hoedown to be ready for testing yet. You must do an AN one of these years, especially now that there is Solo Dance. It's a popular event, so I think they will be keeping it.

[NoVa Sk8r]

Well, I personally had a wonderful time at this AN and the other 9 I've attended. No one mentioned the lovely, warm, sunny weather we were fortunate to have - MN having a reputation for being cold. I loved the wetlands surrounding the rink, with a beautiful trail leading to a view of trumpeter swans. I found a stroll through nature before competing very relaxing. The blue glass trophey vases were also extra nice. I was thrilled to win one for my artistic interp - it's quite solid, weighing over 4 1/2 pounds!Oh, thanks for letting me lift you at the end of the party--you're as light as a feather!

[sexyskates]

LOL, sorry I was so klutzy on the first lift - I didn't know what to do with my arms!
AN Party - drinks, dancing and pairs lifts! I had a marvelous time seeing everyone again!

[Mrs Redboots]

Annabel, of course your beer's on me! I may even consent to a glas of wine myself, just to recover from the shock of actually wearing the interp costume we've designed in front of people! :)

We'll buy each other a drink after Ladies Interp V - loser pays? (That'll be me, then, as the judges won't know what on earth I'm trying to do. But it will wind up the Aussies nicely....).

[blue111moon]

I'm hoping the costume gives people the idea of what I'm doing. And praying that the judges have strong senses of humor.

Xavier says no Manuela or Lionel at the camp this year - :cry: I can only hope that he and Stephan and whoever else they get rmembers to adapt their instructions to the level they're teaching.

(Apologies for hijacking the AN thread)

[icedancer2]

Thanks Icedancer2. I also won a bronze medal in Bronze Solo dance - that was a shocker, since I don't consider my Hickory Hoedown to be ready for testing yet. You must do an AN one of these years, especially now that there is Solo Dance. It's a popular event, so I think they will be keeping it.

Oh yeah, I saw that too - that is GREAT.

I doubt that I will compete dance unless I had a partner to do Centennial. At this point my test level puts me in Silver Solo Dance (or myabe Gold) and there's no way I could do any of those dances solo anymore... sigh...

But thanks. I'm sure it would be fun - the Portland dancers did well this year actually...

[LilJen]

If it isn't Skittl it'll be me. I am pretty sure I can pass my PreBronze dances by the end of the year, which will make me eligible to do an Interp at ANs, and since Interp (Artistic - I couldn't do comedy to save my life) is what I love most . . . so remember to bring the Champagne, because I intend to drink some, and then some more. :twisted:

Hm, this I didn't know about. I've passed my PB dances and am working on my bronze dances; working on Silver moves, but Bronze FS doesn't look likely to pass any time soon. I figured I could do solo dance but not interp. I do have a nice nerd routine that I've competed ISI. . . . we'll have to see who bids for ANs next year. Depends on where it is.

[mskater]

I was watching "Up" last night and one of the dogs said "mayhap" ... ! 8O

Awe, that's so cute! Mayhap I can teach my min pin to say the word as well:]

I don't have much of an opinion regarding AN's this year as I only flew in for my event the day before. But I thought the scheduling was a bit 'askew' (holding the Championship Junior/Senior Men before the Championship Intermediate/Novice Men)?? Oh and practice ice was a bit pricey - I had no interest in the scoring sheets because they can be viewed on Icenetwork. I'm probably missing something aren't I??

On the other hand, the weather was fantastic and I quite enjoyed myself in Bloomington. I was expecting big city, not nature and that was a pleasant surprise:]

So I just thought of a way to make my event (and perhaps all the other events "below" the level of Master's Junior/Senior) more exciting. I think it would be cool to allow each skater to perform one jump element of their choice, regardless of the requirements for that specific level. In a perfect world...