Those hooks on Jackson Elite Plus boots

[cherriee]

I read previous discussions on Jackson boots but couldn't find an answer. Here's my story: I just got a pair of Jackson Elite Plus DJ3300... did the heating molding at the pro shop the day I got them. I'm waiting for them to mount my old blades on. My feet felt pretty comfy at the toe box during first try. My heels though are no way settled in. I will be patient and heat mold the boots again the next time I see the boots.

Does anybody know how those hooks at the tongues work? Or simply, how to lace these boots? Neither my coach, the pro shop guy or I knew exactly how. :frus: We tried different ways but weren't sure. I didn't know what to do once I got to the little "splits" beneath the bottom hooks.

http://www.skatesforless.net/images/T/DJ3300.jpg

[momsk8er]

My dd has decided to wrap the right lace around the left hook and the left lace around the right hook. Seems to work for her.

[dbny]

My dd has decided to wrap the right lace around the left hook and the left lace around the right hook. Seems to work for her.

That's how I've seen it done. It keeps the tongue from slipping to the side.

[sk8tmum]

You hook the laces around them as noted above; as the right lace would normally 'cross' to the left side, it instead circles the right post and goes back to the hooks.

My son has them on his Klings, and they have helped a great deal in terms of getting the boots laced up properly, as it forces a centering of the tongue in the boot, and it's prevented having the tongue twisted and sliding around his ankles.

[sk8tmum]

My heels though are no way settled in. I will be patient and heat mold the boots again the next time I see the boots.

http://www.skatesforless.net/images/T/DJ3300.jpg

Out of curiosity: what do you mean about the heels? We had a huge problem with Jacksons - which is why we don't have them anymore - as they were too wide in the heel, leading to inflammation of the achilles on one kid as the foot went up and down when jumping - and for the other kid, the heel was shaped so that it pressed down on the bone at the back of the foot. However, this latter was fixable by our miraculous skate fitter :) - he pressed them and shaped them when they were heated untl they fitted.

[skaternum]

I'm a well-known Jackson hater, so I will only say that I'm not surprised you're having problems with the heels. :P

[doubletoe]

A lot of people have narrow heels, which is why most skate brands make their stock boots available in mixed width (i.e., A heel, B ball) for just a little more. Doesn't Jackson offer this option? If they do, and you didn't get the mixed width option, then I would think the fitter is to blame for the roomy heels, not the manufacturer.

[Skittl1321]

Split widths from Jackson are $50.

My fitter said they are non-returnable, because they are considered custom.
Which stresses me out, because I can't try them on before deciding.

The heels on my Jacksons are a bit too wide for me (I need a wide ball) and I'd prefer a normal heel, but if I can't try them on, I'm not interested.

[sk8tmum]

We switched to Riedell for the split width feature: we were able to get the A forefoot and AA heel with no charge, no problem, and it resolved part of our challenge quite nicely. Fortunately, our coach was fine with the Riedells. Interestingly, the boots have the same posts on the tongue that are shown with the Jacksons, and we find them a great feature here, too.

[doubletoe]

Split widths from Jackson are $50.

My fitter said they are non-returnable, because they are considered custom.
Which stresses me out, because I can't try them on before deciding.

The heels on my Jacksons are a bit too wide for me (I need a wide ball) and I'd prefer a normal heel, but if I can't try them on, I'm not interested.

I switched from B-B to A-B boots (I wasn't able to try them on either) because my heels started slipping after a year in my B-B boots. Now can't believe I survived the old ones. For the price of 5 hours of skating, having heels that don't slip has been priceless!

[cherriee]

Out of curiosity: what do you mean about the heels? We had a huge problem with Jacksons - which is why we don't have them anymore - as they were too wide in the heel, leading to inflammation of the achilles on one kid as the foot went up and down when jumping - and for the other kid, the heel was shaped so that it pressed down on the bone at the back of the foot. However, this latter was fixable by our miraculous skate fitter :) - he pressed them and shaped them when they were heated untl they fitted.

The heels... I meant the padding at the ankles seemed to be "in the way": my feet felt being pushed towards the front of the boots. Yes those ankle padding scared me quite a bit. Also the "LCL" leather sole felt funky comparing to the dense sole in my old SP-Teri boots.

Now - I have only put my feet in these boots once. I will report again on the heel situation when I heat mold them again later this week. :)

On a side note, the reason I didn't get Klings was because my coach didn't like them. She said the ankles of Klings are too stiff. My previous boots were SP Teri-Deluxe, which I got like 10 years ago and quite liked. The problem was the toe-box in the SP Teri has become so tight that my toes were all curved. Well I shouldn't blame the boots, but my ever-growing bunions as I age. :giveup: They are huge.

[cherriee]

doubletoe, Skittl1321:

If I weren't "intimidated" by the pro-shop fitter, I would have ordered split widths too. :P My boots have a C-width. I could have done C-toe, B-heel. My old SP Teri were a B-width.

[cherriee]

sk8tmum and momsk8er,

So after you finish lacing from toe to ankle, just before starting to lace the hooks, does your dear son / daughter lace the bottom hooks first before crossing the tongue hooks? I went straight to the tongue hooks and back to the bottom hooks.

[sk8tmum]

The two kids reminded me that you have to make a half-knot at the top of the boot before you do ANYTHING else, then demonstrated their different skates and lacing to me:

With the Riedells:

- finish the boot part
- hook the first hook
- cross/reverse lace at the "goal posts"
- hook the second hook
- keep going.

With the Klings, and this is partly because the goal posts are below the first row of hooks, and because my kid has to make everything way too complicated on principle, however, I was told very firmly that it makes the tongue extremely stable, so don't question the method (sigh, it's a teenager):
- finish the boot part
- cross/reverse at the "goal posts"
- hook the second hook
- hook the first hook
- hook the Kling "back hook"
- hook the top hook.

It looks like the hooks on the Jacksons are the same as on the Elites in terms of position, so that's likely the best method.

BTW: watch the laces, though, we have found that pulling them tight around the posts can cause a snap in the laces earlier than normal due to the ability to really pull it tight around the metal.

[sk8tmum]

On a side note, the reason I didn't get Klings was because my coach didn't like them. She said the ankles of Klings are too stiff..

that's too funny: my kid is in them because they are so fast to break in - !!!! - which is why the coach recommends them over all of the other boots out there. Granted they are custom (the posts don't come on the stock boots), plus the stiffness was customized to the skaters height, weight and the coach's request for underbooting - but, the S1 Klings in the stock model are really soft, and they break in fast, even the S2s are quick to flex. We had Jackson Elites at one point with a former coach, and they were never either bent or broken in - even after a year - whereas the Klings were broken in within a week, nicely creased and bent, and have held up beautifully through a year of hard, pounding skating on a very powerful 5'7" skater.

Oh well, totally off topic.

[sk8tmum]

The heels... I meant the padding at the ankles seemed to be "in the way": my feet felt being pushed towards the front of the boots. Yes those ankle padding scared me quite a bit. Also the "LCL" leather sole felt funky comparing to the dense sole in my old SP-Teri boots. .

Do those things have a heel-lock now? It sounds like it - if they do, get the fitter to "open up" the back of the boot a bit, but not before you do the heel-lock quickstep: put them on, kick your heel right back in the boot to get under the heel lock, and then lace them. It took some getting used to when our two switched to boots with heel locks, but, they would never go back now, they really appreciate the extra hold in the heel and ankle.

[cherriee]

Thank you all for helping me.
sk8tmum, I will try your kids' recommendations this week.

[jp1andOnly]

Just a curious question...why are you in jackson elite plus? I'm a bigger gal and put them on and they were like bricks. I suppose if I was doing triples I would want them. just curious....

Thank you all for helping me.
sk8tmum, I will try your kids' recommendations this week.

[ibreakhearts66]

On a side note, the reason I didn't get Klings was because my coach didn't like them. She said the ankles of Klings are too stiff. My previous boots were SP Teri-Deluxe, which I got like 10 years ago and quite liked. The problem was the toe-box in the SP Teri has become so tight that my toes were all curved. Well I shouldn't blame the boots, but my ever-growing bunions as I age. :giveup: They are huge.

that's too funny: my kid is in them because they are so fast to break in - !!!! - which is why the coach recommends them over all of the other boots out there. Granted they are custom (the posts don't come on the stock boots), plus the stiffness was customized to the skaters height, weight and the coach's request for underbooting - but, the S1 Klings in the stock model are really soft, and they break in fast, even the S2s are quick to flex. We had Jackson Elites at one point with a former coach, and they were never either bent or broken in - even after a year - whereas the Klings were broken in within a week, nicely creased and bent, and have held up beautifully through a year of hard, pounding skating on a very powerful 5'7" skater.

Oh well, totally off topic.

My Klingbeils were WAYYYY to stiff. I was probably overbooted in an attempt to protect my ankle which had been recently reconstructed, but after a year of skating in them, doing all of my doubles and working on 2axel, they never broke in. I ended up geting compartment syndrome in my landing leg from attempted to bend against the boot. I'm now in double duo bond, 3 piece construction custom Harlicks (Finalist strength) and they are PERFECT. They're also quite stiff, but still more pliable than the Klingbeils. I just remember being in excruciating pain my last week in the Klingbeils. So much so, in fact, that I decided to take 5 days to break in the Harlicks in time for a holiday show because I just couldn't face another week in the Klinbeils. Coupled with the fact that my tongues slipped down and even ended up creasing at the base, crushing my toes, and the fact that I seemed to be allergic to the wool or adhesive in the tongues, they were, without a doubt, the worst experience I've had, skate wise. I'm sure if I got them slightly less stiff and had the hooks in the tongue, I'd feel much differently about them, but I don't think I will ever put another pair of Klingbeils on my feet.

Sorry. [/Off topic rant]

[cherriee]

Just a curious question...why are you in jackson elite plus? I'm a bigger gal and put them on and they were like bricks. I suppose if I was doing triples I would want them. just curious....

"Like bricks" you mean too heavy? If I could ever do an axel again, I would be soooo happy. :)

I picked Elite Plus because I was looking for strong ankle support AND wide toe-boxes. The Elite Plus seems to have many features designed for ankle support. Ever since I broke my right ankle a decade ago (landing a jump because I was stupid skating with loose lace), and a few years back broke my right metatarsal bone ("practicing" lutz jumps at home w/o shoes... you think aging will make a person smarter), this ankle has become very weak and prone to injury.

When I put on the Jackson w/o the blades, they felt so light that I was actually worried if they will hold me up as well as the SP-Teri. I am eager to find out.

[cherriee]

I'm now in double duo bond, 3 piece construction custom Harlicks (Finalist strength) and they are PERFECT. They're also quite stiff, but still more pliable than the Klingbeils.

Everybody loves Harlicks.
My weirdly-shaped feet will not fit the stock Harlicks. And I will be broke to buy a pair of customs. *sigh*

[Kim to the Max]

Everybody loves Harlicks.
My weirdly-shaped feet will not fit the stock Harlicks. And I will go too broke to get custom. *sigh*

Add me to that list :) partly it's because they work for me, so why fix something that isn't broke?

My first pair of skates were a pair of used Harlick Custom's that magically fit my feet perfectly...then I took a brief wrong turn and got a pair of SP-Teri's (sorry for SP-Teri fans, they just didn't work for me), so I went back to Harlicks...Finalist stock boots. I love them and if I have any say in the matter, I'll be sticking with Harlick :)

[ibreakhearts66]

"Like bricks" you mean too heavy? If I could ever do an axel again, I would be soooo happy. :)

I picked Elite Plus because I was looking for strong ankle support AND wide toe-boxes. The Elite Plus seems to have many features designed for ankle support. Ever since I broke my right ankle a decade ago (landing a jump because I was stupid skating with loose lace), and a few years back broke my right metatarsal bone ("practicing" lutz jumps at home w/o shoes... you think aging will make a person smarter), this ankle has become very weak and prone to injury.

When I put on the Jackson w/o the blades, they felt so light that I was actually worried if they will hold me up as well as the SP-Teri. I am eager to find out.

I think by "like bricks" the poster meant they felt extremely stiff.

I can't help but laugh at your off-ice lutz incident...I shattered two toes in my right foot in a similar way. I was just leaving for skating but had to grab something. So I ran across my living room to do an axel and slammed my foot into the edge of a glass table. Oops!

[skaternum]

On a side note, the reason I didn't get Klings was because my coach didn't like them. She said the ankles of Klings are too stiff.
No offense, but what is your coach smoking? Klingbeils you'd be ordering are are completely custom, and the whole point of custom boots is to get them made how you want them. So if you ordered Klings, you'd specify how stiff you want them. :giveup:

[cherriee]

So I ran across my living room to do an axel and slammed my foot into the edge of a glass table. Oops!

OUCH! Mine "touched down" on the bed post. :roll:

[cherriee]

No offense, but what is your coach smoking? Klingbeils you'd be ordering are are completely custom, and the whole point of custom boots is to get them made how you want them. So if you ordered Klings, you'd specify how stiff you want them. :giveup:

I don't know why. All I know is she has another student who has custom Klingbeils too. It will cost a lot more to get a pair of custom Klingbeils I suppose? I'm paying about $450 for the Jacksons (w/ tax), and keeping my old blades, which she says are still good, to save money.

[sk8tmum]

When we ordered our custom Klings, we were given lots of horror stories about how heavy they were, how stiff they were, etc etc etc. So, I asked about that, being one of those parents who always checks facts on things and asks annoying questions ;), and apparently there have been some changes to Klings in the past few years in terms of lightness.

They're actually lighter than my other kid's Riedells, although the Klings are a larger size (we're weird, we weighed the boots for comparison, both have the same blade, and we weighed without blades anyways). Also, our coach's skaters use these boots almost exclusively, so, Klingbeil's fitter knows how to build them for the skaters - and it's an underbooting strength. Most fitters would probably have put my kid in an S2 or up. The custom ones are just a bit stiffer than an S1, and I have the "notch" put in them. They were broken in within a week (aggressive sit spinning :lol:) and we laced them up in a particular sequence of hooks as they broke in. The goalposts prevented the tongue from twisting OR sliding, which is great.

yes, they're custom; they solved all of the foot issues (there are scars on my kid's feet from one pair of skates that rubbed on a nasty bony protuberance, plus there was chronic Achilles inflammation); yes we've got the fancy tongue that prevents lace bit and slippage; yes we've got the notch, the roll collar and the heel lock.

So, that's my two cents worth. I love my kid's boots and what they do for the skating, but, damn I pay for them, a fair bundle of cash; fortunately, I was able to get the growth insoles put in, which buys me longer in the boots than otherwise, again, a custom feature, one only a parent could love ...

My off-topic rant.

[sk8tmum]

I don't know why. All I know is she has another student who has custom Klingbeils too. It will cost a lot more to get a pair of custom Klingbeils I suppose? I'm paying about $450 for the Jacksons (w/ tax), and keeping my old blades, which she says are still good, to save money.

One fun thing we found with the custom Klings was that they couldn't really predict the size of the blade until the boots were made ... because they are not made at a stock size but instead the size of the foot and on a custom last. Thus, the blade that we had "hoped" would be able to transfer on to the new Klings turned out to be just a fraction too small for usage, so we had to buy new blades.

Definitely blade price is a huge consideration. Those things aren't cheap!

[dbny]

There are a lot of coaches out there who only know about the kind of boots/blades they themselves use. My daughter's first coach was like that and she simply told me to get her a high end recreational skate or a low end professional one for her first skates. After a few years in Riedells which fit, but were not right for her feet, she developed huge bumps on her heels and we switched to custom Klingbeils. The bumps gradually resorbed. There is no one boot that is right for everyone, but it is worth paying for the boot that is right for you!

[jp1andOnly]

bricks as in stiff. I personally wouldn't have suggested so much boot. You get enough ankle support with a lower model that will actually break in not break down (which is probably what will happen). I wish you well with them. I loved my Jacksons with the wide toe box..did you try Gam's??? Jackson actually took over Gam's and thye have a wide toe box. Thats the boot I just got. :)

"Like bricks" you mean too heavy? If I could ever do an axel again, I would be soooo happy. :)

I picked Elite Plus because I was looking for strong ankle support AND wide toe-boxes. The Elite Plus seems to have many features designed for ankle support. Ever since I broke my right ankle a decade ago (landing a jump because I was stupid skating with loose lace), and a few years back broke my right metatarsal bone ("practicing" lutz jumps at home w/o shoes... you think aging will make a person smarter), this ankle has become very weak and prone to injury.

When I put on the Jackson w/o the blades, they felt so light that I was actually worried if they will hold me up as well as the SP-Teri. I am eager to find out.