Handling Adversity

[kander]

I was wondering how other skaters handle adversity in skating. When I know in my heart that I can do something but I'm not able to do it I get really mad (might let some explicatives fly). Instead of quiting in frustration I'll keep at it for as long as it takes. The longer it takes the madder I get. It took me 6 or 7 years to get a double flip. Does that border on a psychological disorder?

[dbny]

No, it's a perfectly sane condition called determination! Wish I had more of it myself. I tend to throw in the towel when I can't feel the ice and get totally stymied. I do go back to whatever it is on another day, but I can't push myself once I start feeling klutzy.

[looplover]

If it is I have it too! The flip does that to me. There have been times when it got me so mad that I did the jump because of it, because I was mad at myself for not doing it when I've done it before. The mind is just...bizarre...

[patatty]

Add me to the disorder group - my hang-up is the axel. If I feel that I'm losing it, I'll pound away for a 1/2 hour or more (usually making it worse). I have started to learn to let it go for the day when things start to look hopeless. On the good side though, after 3 years of pounding and crashing, I have a real legs-crossed-fully-rotated axel. Now if I can just stop freaking out when the music is playing and pull it off in the program . . .

[Sessy]

I was wondering how other skaters handle adversity in skating. When I know in my heart that I can do something but I'm not able to do it I get really mad (might let some explicatives fly). Instead of quiting in frustration I'll keep at it for as long as it takes. The longer it takes the madder I get. It took me 6 or 7 years to get a double flip. Does that border on a psychological disorder?

No, but I would suggest learning some relaxation techniques. Often jumps work better when you're relaxed and calm.

[coskater64]

I used to pound away at my jumps and all I got was two hip surgeries and several years of nothing. (There was a congenital issue but the jumping was most likely the catalyst)

Learning how to skate again has taught me to be more pragmatic, reinforcing bad technique does nothing to help my skating. I work on singles with good form and if things don't go well I work on something else and then come back to it later. I feel absolutely no obligation to go out and do things poorly, I would rather skate a clean program with good jumps and solid spins than attempt cheated doubles and scratch my way through my program. I shot for a score whether it be on 6.0 or IJS. I try for 3.0 technical and 3.4 for present since I skate Int/Nov and I try for an IJS score of 25-35 as my goal for the year. This is the first year I can actually attempt level 1+ spins so I focus on those. Jumps are great but in the end a skater with solid singles under IJS can beat a skater with cheated doubles.

So being determined is one thing but being realistic, at least IMHO is the better route.

Just my .02 cents.:lol::halo:

[CoachPA]

No, but I would suggest learning some relaxation techniques. Often jumps work better when you're relaxed and calm.

I completly agree. By no means do you have a psychological disorder, but do you consider yourself a perfectionist? Often athletes who are perfectionists (both on and off) the ice tend to get stressed out more easily, which only adds to the frustration and anxiety of having difficulties mastering a certain skill, spin, jump, etc.

[jazzpants]

Geez! I thought you were posting some thread about handling crazy skaters during the public sessions or something, kander!!! :twisted: :P

No, it's called determination. That said, I don't know. I mean there is a threshold where my body essentially says :giveup: . Of course, my secondary coach is MORE determined about me than I am and as much as I like the determination, my lower back HATES her for it afterwards!!! :twisted:

[looplover]

I completly agree. By no means do you have a psychological disorder, but do you consider yourself a perfectionist? Often athletes who are perfectionists (both on and off) the ice tend to get stressed out more easily, which only adds to the frustration and anxiety of having difficulties mastering a certain skill, spin, jump, etc.

You know me, don't you...8-):halo:

[AgnesNitt]

Nothing says it better than this----
How can she fall and fall and fall, and keep getting up? Because skating is life; we fall, we get up, and we try again. This is why I love skating. In times of adversity, we always get up, wipe the snow from our backside and do it again. Everything I have learned and achieved in life is because of skating. - Jimmie Santee, PSA Executive Director

But with practical advice, may I suggest not doing the 'problem' for two weeks. Often your brain will work in the background and you'll be able to do it better after a pause. If you keep doing something wrong, over and over--you're training your brain to do it wrong. I've often found a pause in developing a difficult skill is extremely useful. Haven't you ever noticed how after coming back from a 2 week vacation you're stronger and more coordinated? If the pause doesn't work you haven't lost anything

[peanutskates]

i am definitely heading to the loony bin with my axel...

about 2 months of two footing the axel..
one day - landed it, lost it (50/50)
3 weeks' skating - no axel
one day - landed all axels
next day - landed all axels bar one
next day - no axel
2 weeks' skating - no axel

what's next..?

I tend to get really annoyed, then depressed for like a day, then I'm happy again and motivated "I'll get it next time!"

but I'm way too superstitious about the whole thing. i.e if I don't blink for 2 mins I'll land the axel/if that person looks around at me, I'll land the axel.. it's insane.

[black]

"Sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind. The race is long, and in the end, it's only with yourself."

[sk8lady]

i am definitely heading to the loony bin with my axel...

about 2 months of two footing the axel..
one day - landed it, lost it (50/50)
3 weeks' skating - no axel
one day - landed all axels
next day - landed all axels bar one
next day - no axel
2 weeks' skating - no axel

what's next..?

I tend to get really annoyed, then depressed for like a day, then I'm happy again and motivated "I'll get it next time!"



Wow, this is exactly what I'm doing with my loop! Since I first landed one in September some days I do almost all clean ones, the next day I do 20 with a tail on them and one clean one, and the next day I can't get up in the air at all. The next day the whole cycle starts all over again. I get so frustrated I could just scream!! And since I can't test bronze free until I have another consistent jump I'm stuck at pre-bronze, which looks weird in competition when I do programs with a sit-spin, a camel, and a hydroblade in them. Very annoying.

[jazzpants]

Wow, this is exactly what I'm doing with my loop! Since I first landed one in September some days I do almost all clean ones, the next day I do 20 with a tail on them and one clean one, and the next day I can't get up in the air at all. The next day the whole cycle starts all over again. I get so frustrated I could just scream!! And since I can't test bronze free until I have another consistent jump I'm stuck at pre-bronze, which looks weird in competition when I do programs with a sit-spin, a camel, and a hydroblade in them. Very annoying.I have the same problem with the loop, the flip AND the lutz!!! VERY annoying!!! :frus:

If I were you, I would go ahead and test Bronze anyway. I didn't have a consistent loop when I tested and I barely passed Bronze FS based on the strength of the rest of the program.

[RachelSk8er]

i am definitely heading to the loony bin with my axel...


I'm right behind ya, trust me.

[doubletoe]

That used to be me as well. Unfortunately, doing something over and over eventually leads to overuse injuries (when overdoing the flip, the common one seems to be hairline fractures in the shin). I eventually had to learn to practice smarter, not harder, i.e., limiting my attempts and doing conscious problem-solving instead of just trying it over and over. Now I do my training exercises (for example, salchow-loop for the double sal) for the problem jump until the takeoff and air position feel right, then I go for it. If I don't land it after two tries, I go back to the training exercise, then try it again. Once I've tried it 10 times, if it isn't working, I let it go and come back to it another day because I've found that my body gets tired, my confidence goes and it just gets worse if I keep trying it after that point. Plus, the last time I got obsessive and just kept going, I had to take a week off because my foot started developing plantar fasciitis symptoms from too many takeoffs. One step forward, two steps back, KWIM?

[peanutskates]

yeah, I wish I'd read this before the whole axel saga began. I know NOW to stop practicing if it's completely useless, and wait until my lesson. that first day I landed it, I got way too excited and just kept doing it over and over again (literally, for about twenty minutes) so I guess I got tired and lost it. Then I kept thinking, "I'll do it one more time, and I'll land it" for another ten minutes. Then I landed one - thought "oh ok just one more".. lost it. vicious cycle..

good to know I'm not the only one :)

[doubletoe]

yeah, I wish I'd read this before the whole axel saga began. I know NOW to stop practicing if it's completely useless, and wait until my lesson. that first day I landed it, I got way too excited and just kept doing it over and over again (literally, for about twenty minutes) so I guess I got tired and lost it. Then I kept thinking, "I'll do it one more time, and I'll land it" for another ten minutes. Then I landed one - thought "oh ok just one more".. lost it. vicious cycle..

good to know I'm not the only one :)

I think the reason figure skating is so addictive is the same reason gambling is addictive. I remember in psychology class we studied operative conditioning (B.F. Skinner, pigeons, etc.) and learned that the strongest habits are created not when people are rewarded each time they perform an action, but when they are only rewarded some of the time and the rewards come at unpredictable intervals. So we skaters try a jump over and over and over because we know that sometimes we will land it; we just don't know which times! Fortunately, the more strength, skill and technique we involve in our jumps, the less is left up to chance. The less tired you are and the more aware you are of proper technique, the higher percentage of jumps you'll land, even though you're only attempting 10 instead of 50.

[looplover]

I think the reason figure skating is so addictive is the same reason gambling is addictive. I remember in psychology class we studied operative conditioning (B.F. Skinner, pigeons, etc.) and learned that the strongest habits are created not when people are rewarded each time they perform an action, but when they are only rewarded some of the time and the rewards come at unpredictable intervals. So we skaters try a jump over and over and over because we know that sometimes we will land it; we just don't know which times! Fortunately, the more strength, skill and technique we involve in our jumps, the less is left up to chance. The less tired you are and the more aware you are of proper technique, the higher percentage of jumps you'll land, even though you're only attempting 10 instead of 50.

Ooohhh that is GOOD, doubletoe. I think you're on to something there...

[Skate@Delaware]

OMG that must be it!!! Like playing the freakin' slot machine.

ok, maybe with this next one I will WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SHEESH!!!!

think I can still move up in my tests without a sit spin???? I will NEVER get one with my back the way it is.....I'd have better luck trying for a double axel at this rate (delusional thinking either way)

yet still I skate

[RachelSk8er]

That used to be me as well. Unfortunately, doing something over and over eventually leads to overuse injuries (when overdoing the flip, the common one seems to be hairline fractures in the shin). I eventually had to learn to practice smarter, not harder, i.e., limiting my attempts and doing conscious problem-solving instead of just trying it over and over. Now I do my training exercises (for example, salchow-loop for the double sal) for the problem jump until the takeoff and air position feel right, then I go for it. If I don't land it after two tries, I go back to the training exercise, then try it again. Once I've tried it 10 times, if it isn't working, I let it go and come back to it another day because I've found that my body gets tired, my confidence goes and it just gets worse if I keep trying it after that point. Plus, the last time I got obsessive and just kept going, I had to take a week off because my foot started developing plantar fasciitis symptoms from too many takeoffs. One step forward, two steps back, KWIM?

I need to keep reminding myself of this. My knees are bugging the crap out of me, probaby thanks to beating myself up over axels because I'd rather do i it may way (i.e. go for it a ton of times becauase I almost landed it last time so if I do it one more time maybe I'll land it) than my coach's way (drills). In turn, other things suffer, like my program, because I spend so much time on two elements (axel and flying camel) and not enough time doing run-thrus. It needs to be the other way around--I don't *need* an axel to be competitive in silver, even silver I (skaters the past 2 yrs have made the podium at ANs in silver I without even attempting one b/c everything else in their program was so good). But I'm spending so much time that the things in my program that *should* be good and hold me up without it--footwork, presentation, my other jumps and my spins--are starting to suffer.

I work full time and go to law school at night (4 nights a week). Skating should be my break from everything, but it's starting to stress me out more than school, and that's not the way it should be.

[Black Sheep]

OMG that must be it!!! Like playing the freakin' slot machine.

ok, maybe with this next one I will WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SHEESH!!!!

think I can still move up in my tests without a sit spin???? I will NEVER get one with my back the way it is.....I'd have better luck trying for a double axel at this rate (delusional thinking either way)

yet still I skate

Anyway, they "adversity" I've been dealing with in my skating practices is that my head is so jumbled with craziness and negativity (thoughts that don't even have anything to do with skating) I can't land my jumps clean or crank out enough revs in my spins. :roll: I need to re-focus! ;)

[sk8er1964]

Anyway, they "adversity" I've been dealing with in my skating practices is that my head is so jumbled with craziness and negativity (thoughts that don't even have anything to do with skating) I can't land my jumps clean or crank out enough revs in my spins. :roll: I need to re-focus! ;)

Black Sheep, I would die for your spins. They are awesome. (Mine, not so much so. Blech.)

We all go through head games. It's the nature of the sport.

Re the over and over thing, I've been working on the 2sal for six years now. The axel came back almost immediately (I'm a child skater). The doubles did not. So, obviously what I was doing was not working. Have now been doing them off ice on the recommendation of my Mom-coach, and I feel much more comfortable with the 2sal. I am going to have it very soon. The people at the gym look at me like I'm insane when I go into the corner to do them - but that corner has mirrored walls, and the room to do them so I do them there! :lol:

Sometimes it helps to go outside of the normal training, KWIM?

[doubletoe]

I need to keep reminding myself of this. My knees are bugging the crap out of me, probaby thanks to beating myself up over axels because I'd rather do i it may way (i.e. go for it a ton of times becauase I almost landed it last time so if I do it one more time maybe I'll land it) than my coach's way (drills). In turn, other things suffer, like my program, because I spend so much time on two elements (axel and flying camel) and not enough time doing run-thrus. It needs to be the other way around--I don't *need* an axel to be competitive in silver, even silver I (skaters the past 2 yrs have made the podium at ANs in silver I without even attempting one b/c everything else in their program was so good). But I'm spending so much time that the things in my program that *should* be good and hold me up without it--footwork, presentation, my other jumps and my spins--are starting to suffer.

Yeah, PLEASE don't obsess over the axel! Our knees only have so many axel takeoffs, double sal takeoffs and sitspins in them so don't waste them! 2 years ago I did too many axel takeoffs and sitspins and my knee started hurting all the time. I had to take several months off from any left leg takeoffs and forward sitspins, which only set me back. Moderation is definitely the key!

[kander]

OMG that must be it!!! Like playing the freakin' slot machine.

ok, maybe with this next one I will WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Great analogy!

[teresa]

I'm like this. I'm never positive if this is a blessing or curse. If I was a kid skater and had unlimited time I'd probably live at the rink working on things. I hate walking away some days when fighting with a difficult skill.

teresa

[fsk8r]

OMG that must be it!!! Like playing the freakin' slot machine.

ok, maybe with this next one I will WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SHEESH!!!!

think I can still move up in my tests without a sit spin???? I will NEVER get one with my back the way it is.....I'd have better luck trying for a double axel at this rate (delusional thinking either way)

yet still I skate

Given the way I skate, I'm NEVER going to Vegas! I'd be bankrupt before the end of the night.

And how come coaches (who tend to be child skaters) haven't cottoned on to this one, and keep reminding me that it's my leisure activity and I shouldn't be stressed out by it?

And if it's any consolation on the sit spin, I think I've nearly got one now... Apparently after taking two months off the ice because my back didn't like skating, my knee thanked me and got slightly lower on the sit spin. Unfortunately the other one lost it's strength and complains when I jump. And I still can't do many turns without getting stuck with the back not rotating. Highly frustrating, and after several falls threatening to undo the back's progress I finally managed to quit trying to do back double 3's. I'm sure it's doing me more good, but working out how to quit is the really hard part. We're all so stuck in the mentality of just one more...

[Rob Dean]

By no means do you have a psychological disorder, but do you consider yourself a perfectionist?

Is there anyone in this sport that *isn't*? This is the sort of activity that appeals to that psych profile. :)

Rob Dean

[liz_on_ice]

Nothing says it better than this----


But with practical advice, may I suggest not doing the 'problem' for two weeks. Often your brain will work in the background and you'll be able to do it better after a pause. If you keep doing something wrong, over and over--you're training your brain to do it wrong. I've often found a pause in developing a difficult skill is extremely useful. Haven't you ever noticed how after coming back from a 2 week vacation you're stronger and more coordinated? If the pause doesn't work you haven't lost anything

I agree. I get determined and overwork things I'm bad at and only wind up locking in those wrong techniques.

[looplover]

I had a minor meltdown on the ice today and didn't handle adversity well. I am (&$(*#q*#&^$* sick of my problems with the stupid single flip. It is A B S U R D. :x:roll::frus:

My ever-patient coach snapped me back into shape.

Of course, I'd have less adversity if I actually practiced enough...(maybe I'll win powerball)

[RachelSk8er]

I had a minor meltdown on the ice today and didn't handle adversity well. I am (&$(*#q*#&^$* sick of my problems with the stupid single flip. It is A B S U R D. :x:roll::frus:

My ever-patient coach snapped me back into shape.

Of course, I'd have less adversity if I actually practiced enough...(maybe I'll win powerball)

I've been getting frustrated/discouraged lately (not hard to do when you're on mostly high level sessions with kids who went to JNs, sectionals in jr/sr, and even those who aren't all seem to be working on double axels), but I just keep reminding myself that there are hundreds of other adult skaters, kid/teen skaters at my rink, or even non-skaters in general who wish they could just do what I am able to do. And I remind myself that a year ago I couldn't do a back scratch or a lutz, now I am doing flying camels and almost axels.

[jazzpants]

I'm getting discouraged as of late too... my programs are flowing as well as it should. The artistic is better off now, but the technical is just NOT flowing at all. Just seems like all the moves are intentionally placed there to make it awkward for me (but make HIM look good)... I hate it that my primary coach has this attitude like "I'm not moving fast enough" and "get with the program already." I really don't like this program. There are major flow problems with this program (like not coming out of the loop, flip and lutz jump with any glide out.) My lower back condition isn't helping much either and I can't tell him that my lower back is not helping me in the cause either b/c he will just :roll: and say "Excuses, excuses!!!" :cry:

[Skittl1321]

Is there anyone in this sport that *isn't*? This is the sort of activity that appeals to that psych profile. :)

Rob Dean

Absolutely there are people in this sport who aren't. I'm definetly one of them.

I think to make it to the top, you have to be, but only a very few make it there, and many are happy skating without being there.

[Thin-Ice]

OMG that must be it!!! Like playing the freakin' slot machine.

ok, maybe with this next one I will WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SHEESH!!!!


Should this be taken as a warning about gambling? That's not good news for the skaters competing at PCAS in Las Vegas later this month! :roll::lol::lol:

[sk8lady]

OMG that must be it!!! Like playing the freakin' slot machine.

ok, maybe with this next one I will WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SHEESH!!!!



This is it exactly!
If I don't land my loop, I think, "Just one more, I'm sure it will be fine!"
If I DO land it, I think, "I better do one more so I can make sure I really have one!"
If I do two, I think, "I FINALLY have it! I think I'll do ten more just to make sure!!"
NOT a good idea! But by then Brain has gone out to lunch and left Body in charge...

[looplover]

This is it exactly!
If I don't land my loop, I think, "Just one more, I'm sure it will be fine!"
If I DO land it, I think, "I better do one more so I can make sure I really have one!"
If I do two, I think, "I FINALLY have it! I think I'll do ten more just to make sure!!"
NOT a good idea! But by then Brain has gone out to lunch and left Body in charge...

So true! One day I did 14 flips and was ecstatic. I had to keep doing them just to make sure.

That day has not been repeated since! Who knows?!? The psychology of skating is just so wacky...

[Mrs Redboots]

OMG that must be it!!! Like playing the freakin' slot machine.

ok, maybe with this next one I will WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Indeed - part of our pre-competition ritual is to play "Maybe this time" from Cabaret: "It's gotta happen/happen sometime/maybe this time I'll win!"

[sk8joyful]

I was wondering how other skaters handle adversity in skating. When I know in my heart that I can do something but
I'm not able to do it, Instead of quiting in frustration I'll keep at it for as long as it takes.
It took me 6 or 7 years to get a double flip. Does that border on a psychological disorder?

Not in my book, I call this DETERMINATION :D

And I've silently read these posts here for years!, you know "oh no!, it's taken me weeks or months to get x-y-z"
and
I think "How many of these skaters would continue skating...,
when the ONLY skill they could muster was swizzle, no less for 3 years!!!" - I'm sure
most would :giveup:
Not me!! -
I have goals, and I will get them! :D You just chalk it up to PASSION :D :D
.