Adult world/europeans/4 continents

[smelltheice]

Does anyone think that there should be some equivalent of these competitions for the adult skating world between adult skating countries or that the growth in the adult skating world will make it inevitable that it will evolve to that level of standing.

[Stormy]

It's a nice thought, but no. For a number of reasons, probably the first one being...well, we're adults. Probably most adult skaters don't have the financial means or time to jet all over the world for competitions like that. I know I don't. We're not kids and we can't train like kids. A lot of questions come up...what levels would they have? All of them? You'd have to qualify for it, right? If it was just open to everyone, well, we already have competitions like that, and they're not Worlds. It really is a nice thought and it'd be cool if adult skating reached that level, but I don't ever see it.

[smelltheice]

I do actually agree that it is most unlikely. The question is more of a thought provoking topic as opposed to a optimistic view of where adult skating might go in future and I am sure there are several trains of view on this, although like you said, it would be a nice though if it did reach that standing one day.

[skaternum]

There was a big discussion about this on FSU. Personally, I don't think an Adult World Championships would mean anything. I don't think it would be truly representative of the best skaters in our sport, nor do I think it would be logistically feasible, given the differences in the adult skating programs around the world.

[Mrs Redboots]

There are already plenty of international adult competitions; they are not championships because they do not limit their entries - if you reckon you can do it without making a complete tit of yourself, you are welcome!

Few countries have separate standards for adults (the USA being an honourable exception), and not all have an Adult Championship. And if you did have an international championship, who would go? Would it only be the very best, or would you allow anybody who had won their category? And the categories and standards are very different, too.

Frankly, I'd rather stay with what we have now - plenty of international competitions, but no limits as to who can enter!

[coskater64]

If you realize most adult skaters usually only have time to do a few competitions each year you are limiting the pool of skaters tremendously. What I truly don't understand is the need to be a world champion when you are an adult skater, generally if you make it through you program and managed to build your skills you already are a champion.

As I stated on the FSU site, the ISU event is not a world championship, while standards are similiar they do not align and the ISU even allows the skaters to pick their level so that will NEVER be a championship event. I go to events all around the US and Europe to see my friends not to win a medal, ... my friends count for more than any medal.

Nuf said:twisted:

[smelltheice]

no one said the ISU event was a championship, at least not on this thread and certainly not from me. Like I said, it is a topic purely for discussion and whether someone wants to be a world champion, even as an adult is entirely dependent on the aspirations of the individual. If I enter a competition, I go to win otherwise what is the point of competing. I get to see my friends anyway competition or not. However, I can appreciate that the US is considerably larger than the UK (252 times larger in fact ((random fact from high school goegraphy!!)) so I guess in that case, some folks only get to see friends occasionally due to the logistics involved. I guess this just highlights the differences between individuals and their goals/motivations

[jskater49]

. If I enter a competition, I go to win otherwise what is the point of competing.

What is the point of competing if you don't win? To have a goal to train for. To prove to yourself you can go out there under pressure and do the best you can. To show off in front of an audience. To have comraderie with other skaters.

If the only point was winning, there would be no point since I rarely win.

j

[stacyf419]

I took what Smelltheice was saying to be what's the point of competing unless you're trying to win - not winning per se.

I read the thread on FSU and it's funny how angry everybody seems about this idea. :?:

[jskater49]

I took what Smelltheice was saying to be what's the point of competing unless you're trying to win - not winning per se.

I read the thread on FSU and it's funny how angry everybody seems about this idea. :?:

Okay she asked what people thought and people don't think it's a great idea. That's not anger

And my answer as to what is the point is the answer to the point of "trying to win" ALl the things I answer are the point of competing even if you are not trying to win.

j

[Mrs Redboots]

I go to events all around the US and Europe to see my friends not to win a medal, ... my friends count for more than any medal.Me too! If one gets a medal (except default medals, which are dull!) it's just the icing on the cake - it's the hanging out with friends and having fun that matters. And dressing up and so on to skate....

I can appreciate that the US is considerably larger than the UK (252 times larger in fact ((random fact from high school goegraphy!!)) so I guess in that case, some folks only get to see friends occasionally due to the logistics involved. I guess this just highlights the differences between individuals and their goals/motivations
And, of course, if you compete in the European events you have friends from all over the world that you only see at these events - for me, a huge part of the joy of skating is the friends I've made! Even in the UK I don't often see those skating friends who don't skate at my rink other than at competitions.

[smelltheice]

I suppose it is each to their own but if I want to go and see friends, then thats what I do. If I enter a competition then yes I go to win if thats the way it goes and if not then I will endeavor to work out why, correct any faults and do better next time but when I compete in anything, the competition comes first as my friends are there anyway and while I don't take them for granted, I still see them, competition even or not.

If you aren't competing to win its not a competition, it is a social which I see as being the balancing counterpart to the competitive side of the whole event but when competing, it is to win or at least do well or my best should I not be on form at times. If I win then I want to know it is because I performed better than those I compete against and not because they have just gone for a day out to see friends and do some skating (or whatever sport they may be doing) while they are there. I have competed horses for many years and I go to shows to come home with a prize and while yes I do enjoy it, I don't go just for the hell of it!!! What is the point of that!

[Stormy]

If you aren't competing to win its not a competition, it is a social which I see as being the balancing counterpart to the competitive side of the whole event but when competing, it is to win or at least do well or my best should I not be on form at times. If I win then I want to know it is because I performed better than those I compete against and not because they have just gone for a day out to see friends and do some skating (or whatever sport they may be doing) while they are there. I have competed horses for many years and I go to shows to come home with a prize and while yes I do enjoy it, I don't go just for the hell of it!!! What is the point of that!


The point is to go out and try your best and hopefully have fun doing it!! There are a lot of skater who skate for the joy of it, and they enter competitions knowing they won't win. At Easterns last year I knew for 100% sure I wouldn't win, should I have withdrawn and stayed home? I didn't because I still wanted to skate and also see my friends and have a great time. Which I did.

[jazzpants]

What I truly don't understand is the need to be a world champion when you are an adult skater, generally if you make it through you program and managed to build your skills you already are a champion.Me too! I had a BLAST at Adults Nationals, seeing all these people that I've always wanted to meet but couldn't b/c I didn't pass those tests needed to participate, never mind money factors... (which is why I'm GLAD there IS no "Adult Worlds" now, thinking about it. Well, at least my WALLET is a lot happier!!! :P)

smelltheice: you can get from that that there is no "Adult Worlds." Trust me, I asked that same question a few years back. Same reaction! No such thing and let's KEEP IT THAT WAY!!! :P :lol:

That said, I do aim to be a better skater than the previous year... and with that, the placement for me is relevant. "Aiming to win" in itself is NOT a crime, since we're all striving to become better skaters. It's when it's the ONLY thing and you don't take ANY value in the overall experience other than to win a medal -- THAT is when one needs to reassess their goals to figure out whether or not it's realistic, as well as why they are skating, testing, competing, etc...

In my personal case, if I was looking just to win, I probably should NOT have either bothered moving up to Bronze and say at Pre-Bronze. My only reason for moving up to Bronze despite my crappy (still somewhat at Pre-Bronze level) skating is b/c I wanted to finally MEET my friends here on this board and other skating boards, to finally have that experience of being part of Adults National, to see how I fare right now with the rest of the people in my group and figure out realistic goals to set to become a better skater for next year!!!

[smelltheice]

Me too! I had a BLAST at Adults Nationals, seeing all these people that I've always wanted to meet but couldn't b/c I didn't pass those tests needed to participate, never mind money factors... (which is why I'm GLAD there IS no "Adult Worlds" now, thinking about it. Well, at least my WALLET is a lot happier!!! :P)

smelltheice: you can get from that that there is no "Adult Worlds." Trust me, I asked that same question a few years back. Same reaction! No such thing and let's KEEP IT THAT WAY!!! :P :lol:

That said, I do aim to be a better skater than the previous year... and with that, the placement for me is relevant. "Aiming to win" in itself is NOT a crime, since we're all striving to become better skaters. It's when it's the ONLY thing and you don't take ANY value in the overall experience other than to win a medal -- THAT is when one needs to reassess their goals to figure out whether or not it's realistic, as well as why they are skating, testing, competing, etc...

Ok. this is being taken waaaay out of context here. I never said that winning is the be all and end all of life. If I didn't enjoy what I was doing, I would do something else but all I am saying is I would do it for fun and not bother paying the money to enter a competition if I am not trying to win. I would just skate with my friends at my rink or any other rink for fun if it was just that. Entering a competition and just going for fun is like buying a race car just so you can look at it. I honestly don't see the point. I do understand that yes, it should be enjoyed and that one should have fun with their friends AND I DO OR I WOULDN'T SKATE but that doesn't mean one shouldn't be out to win too. I would enter something with the knowledge that I might not win or even get placed but it would serve a purpose in addition to having fun, perhaps to solve a problem I have with a certain element or to gain confidence after a fall etc but I will still try my best to win.

and to clarify....I have never said that there was an adult worlds or europeans etc. I never said that there should be or would be so do not misquote me!!! and judging by the reaction of most people on this thread, it is a good thing that there is no such event because it would be a disaster I think.

I'm sorry if this sounds a bit angry but I am just trying to clarify that I am not the type of person for whom winning is everything above all else but I always try my hardest to win even if I don't have a chance. I guess it is just the eternal optimist in me and a die hard, don't give in attitude towards life!!!!

[Mel On Ice]

if you reckon you can do it without making a complete tit of yourself, you are welcome!


well, I guess that leaves me out :mrgreen:

[singerskates]

Does anyone think that there should be some equivalent of these competitions for the adult skating world between adult skating countries or that the growth in the adult skating world will make it inevitable that it will evolve to that level of standing.

I don't know about 4 Continents as there aren't that many adult skaters in asia.

Adult Worlds, that's a posibility. All the ISU would have to do is rename the ISU Adult Invitational as ISU Adult Worlds. But if this were to happen, all skaters competing at the "ISU Adult Worlds" should have to have made the top 3 in their age and skating level at their own county's adult nationals. Also if this were happening those who qualify should be getting their trip to ISU Adult Worlds paid for by their ISU member country association. Being that not all of the countries that have been represented have an adult nationals, it won't be happening any time soon. Although it would be cool if it could happen.

Adult European's, well there are enough european competitions already. Also, if there isn't an Adult North American competition where there are lots of adult skaters, why should there be Adult European's.

My suguestion would be to go with a points system for all those adult competitions around the world with the top 24 point getters in their age level, event level and event getting to compete at Adult Worlds for free. But this would only work if everyone would be marked with the ISI COP or better the Canadian CPC for StarSkaters and Adult StarSkaters.

Somehow though there'd have to be a list of competitions that would count for points. This would mean that the ISU and all ISU member countries would have to vote on which competitons would be on the list.

Nice dream but for this to work, we'd have to get major sponsors to jump on board.

[smelltheice]

I don't know about 4 Continents as there aren't that many adult skaters in asia.

Adult Worlds, that's a posibility. All the ISU would have to do is rename the ISU Adult Invitational as ISU Adult Worlds. But if this were to happen, all skaters competing at the "ISU Adult Worlds" should have to have made the top 3 in their age and skating level at their own county's adult nationals. Also if this were happening those who qualify should be getting their trip to ISU Adult Worlds paid for by their ISU member country association. Being that not all of the countries that have been represented have an adult nationals, it won't be happening any time soon. Although it would be cool if it could happen.

Adult European's, well there are enough european competitions already. Also, if there isn't an Adult North American competition where there are lots of adult skaters, why should there be Adult European's.

My suguestion would be to go with a points system for all those adult competitions around the world with the top 24 point getters in their age level, event level and event getting to compete at Adult Worlds for free. But this would only work if everyone would be marked with the ISI COP or better the Canadian CPC for StarSkaters and Adult StarSkaters.

Somehow though there'd have to be a list of competitions that would count for points. This would mean that the ISU and all ISU member countries would have to vote on which competitons would be on the list.

Nice dream but for this to work, we'd have to get major sponsors to jump on board.

I have to admit that I like the rationality of your response. There are plenty of fact and figures to back up your argument. We are both thinking on the same page it seems. Good form!

[Ellyn]

Also if this were happening those who qualify should be getting their trip to ISU Adult Worlds paid for by their ISU member country association. . . .

My suguestion would be to go with a points system for all those adult competitions around the world with the top 24 point getters in their age level, event level and event getting to compete at Adult Worlds for free.

Who's going to pay for this? The federations? Why would they want to?

Three possibilities:

Limit the championship to the highest levels of adult skating, so that federations could vie for boasting the best adult skaters in the world. In which case most of the competitors will be former (or current) elite skaters who are old enough to qualify as adults.

Get federations to pay for anyone who qualifies as among the top 24 point getters in the world at their age level, event level, and discipline, down to a pretty low skill level (gold? silver? bronze? pre-bronze?). Why would a federation want to pay overseas travel expenses for a skater to compete to be adult silver age group IV champion of the world? There aren't world championships for kids at the novice or lower levels, why should there be for adults at comparable or lower levels?

And how do you determine who the top 24 point getters are? From domestic events? If there's any prestige in having skaters qualify for this, wouldn't each federation inflate their marks domestically to achieve that? At various international adult competitions around the world? That will require more international travel, probably at the skaters' own expense.

Have participants pay their own expenses, whether for the championship or for international qualifying events? Then it becomes not a competition for the best of the best among adult skaters at each level, but a competition for the best among adult skaters who are able to afford the money and the time away from job and family responsibilities to travel to two or more out-of-town (and in some cases out-of-continent) competitions a year.

The whole concept of an adult championship just raises too many theoretical and practical problems. I don't see what purpose it would serve that would outweigh them.

[smelltheice]

Who's going to pay for this? The federations? Why would they want to?

Three possibilities:

Limit the championship to the highest levels of adult skating, so that federations could vie for boasting the best adult skaters in the world. In which case most of the competitors will be former (or current) elite skaters who are old enough to qualify as adults.

Get federations to pay for anyone who qualifies as among the top 24 point getters in the world at their age level, event level, and discipline, down to a pretty low skill level (gold? silver? bronze? pre-bronze?). Why would a federation want to pay overseas travel expenses for a skater to compete to be adult silver age group IV champion of the world? There aren't world championships for kids at the novice or lower levels, why should there be for adults at comparable or lower levels?

And how do you determine who the top 24 point getters are? From domestic events? If there's any prestige in having skaters qualify for this, wouldn't each federation inflate their marks domestically to achieve that? At various international adult competitions around the world? That will require more international travel, probably at the skaters' own expense.

Have participants pay their own expenses, whether for the championship or for international qualifying events? Then it becomes not a competition for the best of the best among adult skaters at each level, but a competition for the best among adult skaters who are able to afford the money and the time away from job and family responsibilities to travel to two or more out-of-town (and in some cases out-of-continent) competitions a year.

The whole concept of an adult championship just raises too many theoretical and practical problems. I don't see what purpose it would serve that would outweigh them.

A well thought out and rational arguement. It is true that such an event would cause many headaches and likely not get the backing that would be required. It is something that will most likely remain a concept where the practicalities are not feasible. (Whoa. that sounded very political. perhaps I missed my calling in life but I am too bad a liar to be in politics!!!!)

[singerskates]

Adult Worlds, that's a posibility. All the ISU would have to do is rename the ISU Adult Invitational as ISU Adult Worlds. But if this were to happen, all skaters competing at the "ISU Adult Worlds" should have to have made the top 3 in their age and skating level at their own county's adult nationals. Also if this were happening those who qualify should be getting their trip to ISU Adult Worlds paid for by their ISU member country association. Being that not all of the countries that have been represented have an adult nationals, it won't be happening any time soon. Although it would be cool if it could happen.

My suguestion would be to go with a points system for all those adult competitions around the world with the top 24 point getters in their age level, event level and event getting to compete at Adult Worlds for free. But this would only work if everyone would be marked with the ISI COP or better the Canadian CPC for StarSkaters and Adult StarSkaters.

Somehow though there'd have to be a list of competitions that would count for points. This would mean that the ISU and all ISU member countries would have to vote on which competitons would be on the list.

Another way is to just send the top three placements in each category from Adult Bronze through Adult Masters to Adult Competitive (Novice to Senior) of the ISU member countries that wish to participate chosen from either a country's adult nationals or to chose 24 skaters who have the highest placement results from at least 3 competitions that are not adult nations but on the ISU list.

Remember, unless the ISU comes up with a plan like this themselves, this is just a dream.

[jazzpants]

Ok. this is being taken waaaay out of context here. I never said that winning is the be all and end all of life. If I didn't enjoy what I was doing, I would do something else but all I am saying is I would do it for fun and not bother paying the money to enter a competition if I am not trying to win.Okay, to be clear... when I was referring to the "someone who thinks of winning above all else..." I was NOT implying YOU!!! Got it? Good!!!

That said there ARE a few of those skaters out there who think that way. I avoid them like the plague b/c I figured that their minds are already made up and anything else I say I'm going to irritate them!!! So my stance now for those skaters.... http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/images/smilies/slinkaway.gif and http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/images/smilies/panik1.gif

What I am saying though is that the last time I mentioned something about an "Adults Worlds" it got totally blow out of proportion, that's all! LOL!!! :P

I also agree with Mrs. Redboots that the current method of getting people together for O'dorf stays an invitational!!! Not that I will ever make it to those other countries (unless I win the lottery, then I would be so there!!!) but I would like the option of going there if I choose to and can afford it!!!

[doubletoe]

Smelltheice, I don't know if you've seen the discussion on FS Universe regarding the plausibility of an actual Adult Worlds, but IIRC, there seemed to be two major roadblocks:
(1) how to fund it (including making sure the best skaters from each country can actually pay for the trip) and
(2) how to create a level playing field in the absence of international adult testing standards.

Currently, international standard track competitions are divided only by age, which is why the difference in different countries' testing standards doesn't create a problem. If you are 16 years old and are a U.S. Ladies' Senior Nationals medalist, you can compete at either Senior Worlds or Junior Worlds and nobody will cry foul. But in adult skating, dividing only by age would make no sense, since you'd end up with Bronze skaters skating against Masters Senior skaters. Since there are no standardized adult tests across the various ISU member countries, international skaters are currently just signing up for whichever event sounds right to them.
So it's not that there *can't* be an Adult Worlds, it's just that the results wouldn't be *meaningful* unless international adult testing standards are used to divide skaters into the appropriate categories. And, IMHO, until the funding exists to help the top skaters from each country actually attend, it wouldn't be a very meaningful adult worlds, either.
Of course I do share your hope that these issues can be overcome and it will happen someday. . . Not holding my breath, though, LOL!

[smelltheice]

Okay, to be clear... when I was referring to the "someone who thinks of winning above all else..." I was NOT implying YOU!!! Got it? Good!!!

That said there ARE a few of those skaters out there who think that way. I avoid them like the plague b/c I figured that their minds are already made up and anything else I say I'm going to irritate them!!! So my stance now for those skaters.... http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/images/smilies/slinkaway.gif and http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/images/smilies/panik1.gif

What I am saying though is that the last time I mentioned something about an "Adults Worlds" it got totally blow out of proportion, that's all! LOL!!! :P

I also agree with Mrs. Redboots that the current method of getting people together for O'dorf stays an invitational!!! Not that I will ever make it to those other countries (unless I win the lottery, then I would be so there!!!) but I would like the option of going there if I choose to and can afford it!!!

Perhaps I jumped on the defensive a bit too soon. Sometimes I find it hard to judge the intent of written text without the benefit of hearing it spoken so I didn't mean to offend. Good call

[coskater64]

Smelltheice, how is it you get to judge us when we don't agree with you? We don't understand your point-of-view and you obviously don't understand, mine. I don't see your age listed and maybe that is the difference, I am older, I have only skated on the adult circuit for 6 years going to sectionals and nationals, I participate in all parts of skating as a board member and test chair of my club. So I see pretty much all there is of the sport.

Once again, where do you think people are going to get the time to do this? Where is the money going to come from to pay for this? NO one will pay to watch adults do double jumps except other adults who appreciate the time and extraordinary effort we expend upon the sport.

I think you inadvertently trivialize those of us who don't go out to win...I go out to skate, and to do my best, to only do something to win, is to take some of the joy out of skating. With regards to my friends...who skate they are from all over the US, UK and Europe. My friends here in CO don't really compete because they don't like the attitudes of people who "have to win" they don't like the pressure and they choose not to, so if I want to see my friends from either coast I go to a competition.

I cannot skate with the "mentality" you talk about --I will never be able to do that again because of my hip surgeries. If I had your view point then I should quit, and sorry....I won't do that, I still enjoy the sport and that is what is most important and my friends seem to be just fine skating for the sake of the sport. If we occasionally do well...it's just icing on an already very nice cake.
:D

[smelltheice]

Smelltheice, how is it you get to judge us when we don't agree with you? We don't understand your point-of-view and you obviously don't understand, mine. I don't see your age listed and maybe that is the difference, I am older, I have only skated on the adult circuit for 6 years going to sectionals and nationals, I participate in all parts of skating as a board member and test chair of my club. So I see pretty much all there is of the sport.

Once again, where do you think people are going to get the time to do this? Where is the money going to come from to pay for this? NO one will pay to watch adults do double jumps except other adults who appreciate the time and extraordinary effort we expend upon the sport.

I think you inadvertently trivialize those of us who don't go out to win...I go out to skate, and to do my best, to only do something to win, is to take some of the joy out of skating. With regards to my friends...who skate they are from all over the US, UK and Europe. My friends here in CO don't really compete because they don't like the attitudes of people who "have to win" they don't like the pressure and they choose not to, so if I want to see my friends from either coast I go to a competition.

I cannot skate with the "mentality" you talk about --I will never be able to do that again because of my hip surgeries. If I had your view point then I should quit, and sorry....I won't do that, I still enjoy the sport and that is what is most important and my friends seem to be just fine skating for the sake of the sport. If we occasionally do well...it's just icing on an already very nice cake.
:D

I'm sorry if that is the way that you interpret my opinion but it is just that. My personal opinion and you will note that in one of my posts that I stated that words to the effect that every person competes, skates or whatever with their own personal motivation in mind. I never trivialise anything that others do just because it is something that I would not do. Everyone has their own personal situations and motivations for doing what they do and if what you do makes you happy, then you have succeeded in that aspect of your goal. Personally, I could never be satisfied with competing for the fun of it but I appreciate that there are those who enjoy the experience in itself. I too enjoy this but I need more from it. perhaps it is because I have no family or other element of my life (except my girlfriend) that requires my attention so I can afford the time to dedicate so much to my sport but that is purely an assumption on my part as I don't know your situation. I have always been a competitor and I guess that aspect of my personality doesn't die easily.

[coskater64]

Well, I just love the car analogy, that its like buying a racing car and then just looking at it.

As if, you can buy a race car and still drive it and enjoy, but who says you have to go out onto the track and die a firey, flamed filled death while racing the thing. You can join the car club association and do time trials, or gurkhams, sort of like scavenger hunts you don't have to race.

The point being you started a discussion and you diss everyone who disagrees with you, ( your p-o-v is different---) -- you say you are competitive but the mindset you have is that of all the small children who want to make it to the olympics, which is great if you are 11 on your sr moves and skating Nov, and making it to sectionals.

The other thing you seem to forget is that in competition very few people can really suck it up and make it all work during those 2-4 minutes. Those people who can, are real competitors what the competition brings, i.e. 15 people who all skate clean and you just end up with the lowest score doesn't make you a loser, so long as you tried and if you skated clean and got all the points and all the levels how in the world can you be a loser? If you thought that you would be...
:twisted:

[singerskates]

With regards to my friends...who skate they are from all over the US, UK and Europe.
:D

And what about your friends from the Great White North, ah hemm, Canada? ROTFLOL

[jazzpants]

And what about your friends from the Great White North, ah hemm, Canada? ROTFLOL
Can't speak for coskater64 but I sure love my Canadian friends here!!! :bow: (And I'm not just saying that b/c my choreographer is from Canada either... :P LOL!!! )

[Thin-Ice]

(snip) I also agree with Mrs. Redboots that the current method of getting people together for O'dorf stays an invitational!!! Not that I will ever make it to those other countries (unless I win the lottery, then I would be so there!!!) but I would like the option of going there if I choose to and can afford it!!!

I hate to be nitpicky but... :?:isn't Oberstdorf an "Open" as in open to anyone who can afford the time and money to compete.. rather than an "Invitational" in which you must be invited to compete?:?:

[smelltheice]

Well, I just love the car analogy, that its like buying a racing car and then just looking at it.

As if, you can buy a race car and still drive it and enjoy, but who says you have to go out onto the track and die a firey, flamed filled death while racing the thing. You can join the car club association and do time trials, or gurkhams, sort of like scavenger hunts you don't have to race.

The point being you started a discussion and you diss everyone who disagrees with you, ( your p-o-v is different---) -- you say you are competitive but the mindset you have is that of all the small children who want to make it to the olympics, which is great if you are 11 on your sr moves and skating Nov, and making it to sectionals.

The other thing you seem to forget is that in competition very few people can really suck it up and make it all work during those 2-4 minutes. Those people who can, are real competitors what the competition brings, i.e. 15 people who all skate clean and you just end up with the lowest score doesn't make you a loser, so long as you tried and if you skated clean and got all the points and all the levels how in the world can you be a loser? If you thought that you would be...
:twisted:

Of course you can buy a race car. They have them advertised all the time in the classifieds of autosport international magazine. Thats what race teams do with them when they can't cope with the stresses of full time racing anymore. Plus I never actually said that you had to race a race car. Why can't you just drive it at a track day. At least that is doing something with it instead of just looking at it!!! Perhaps you are reading into this a little too deeply.

[jp1andOnly]

actually invitational means its open to anyone....I used to compete in lots of invitationals which are just open competitions (different terminology but it means open)

I hate to be nitpicky but... :?:isn't Oberstdorf an "Open" as in open to anyone who can afford the time and money to compete.. rather than an "Invitational" in which you must be invited to compete?:?:

[blue111moon]

All it takes to be invited to take part in an Invitational (at least in the US) is to get hold of an application form.

In olden days, the host club invited other clubs to join their event by sending out the announcement - and only the clubs that got the announcement were allowed to enter. That's changed over the years, although the names of the competitions haven't.

So Opens - meaning "Open to skaters outside of the host club" and "Invitationals" are pretty much the same things.

[Thin-Ice]

Thanks for the clarification!

[skaternum]

Limit the championship to the highest levels of adult skating, so that federations could vie for boasting the best adult skaters in the world. In which case most of the competitors will be former (or current) elite skaters who are old enough to qualify as adults.Yeah, and what is the point of that? Adult skating should be about more than a bunch of aged-out elite skaters. Quite frankly, I don't give a rat's patooty about those kind of events. Show me a 40 year old who started skating at the age of 30 and just started landing axels -- there's an event I can get behind! :P

Get federations to pay for anyone who qualifies as among the top 24 point getters in the world at their age level, event level, and discipline, down to a pretty low skill level (gold? silver? bronze? pre-bronze?). Why would a federation want to pay overseas travel expenses for a skater to compete to be adult silver age group IV champion of the world? There aren't world championships for kids at the novice or lower levels, why should there be for adults at comparable or lower levels?Agreed. We don't even have "championships" for the lower levels at Adult Nationals; why would we do it for a "world championship"?

Have participants pay their own expenses, whether for the championship or for international qualifying events? Then it becomes not a competition for the best of the best among adult skaters at each level, but a competition for the best among adult skaters who are able to afford the money and the time away from job and family responsibilities to travel to two or more out-of-town (and in some cases out-of-continent) competitions a year.Yep. Meaningless as a championship.

[Mrs Redboots]

well, I guess that leaves me out :mrgreen:
Nonsense, Mel - I've seen skaters who are a lot worse than you were three years ago (remember I haven't seen you skate since then, and I know from what everybody else has said that you've improved enormously), including myself, still out there and competing! And having a blast.....

That's what it's about. Ottavio Cinquanto, the head of the ISU, said in my hearing that adult skating is as much about competing against oneself as against other skaters. It's about increasing one's IJS scores (for those lucky enough to have them) year on year at the same competition.

We all go out there hoping to win, but many of us know that, realistically, we have very little hope of doing so (at our level, we know our opposition - often rather too well!) unless everybody else withdraws. However, we can't control what other skaters do, and we can't control what the judges think - all we can do is go out there, skate our best, and hope for the best. Actually, that applies to all skaters at whatever level, not just adults. None of us can. Okay, there are those who try to maximise their chances by skating in a level lower than they should (thankfully rare at adult competitions), but even they can't be sure that they'll win....

[coskater64]

I love my Canadian friends as well....:D

The only championship adult event I know of are the Championship events at the Adult Nationals in the US. For those event you must go to your sectional and qualify in the top 4, of course if you are a guy you can come in 6th and sometimes still make it thanks to the fill-up rule and the fact that there only are 12 gold men throughout the US. The championship events in the US are in Pairs(gold & Masters), Dance(gold), Gold FS/Int&Nov FS/Jr & Sr FS for both men and women. So there are 10 National titles up for grabs at the AN's. US figure skating also uses all tests passed to determine your level so even if you are 80 and managed your 7th figure in the 60's you still have to skate Jr. Luckily the open events are age leveled.

I also know of the Canandian Adult Nationals but is it all open? Are their levels that where you qualify via a sectional event? How does the Canadian system work?

[starskate6.0]

If you realize most adult skaters usually only have time to do a few competitions each year you are limiting the pool of skaters tremendously. What I truly don't understand is the need to be a world champion when you are an adult skater, generally if you make it through you program and managed to build your skills you already are a champion.

As I stated on the FSU site, the ISU event is not a world championship, while standards are similiar they do not align and the ISU even allows the skaters to pick their level so that will NEVER be a championship event. I go to events all around the US and Europe to see my friends not to win a medal, ... my friends count for more than any medal.

Nuf said:twisted:

This was so well said I see no need to add to this at all . Well Done Coskater
:bow::bow::bow:

[singerskates]

I love my Canadian friends as well....:D

I also know of the Canandian Adult Nationals but is it all open? Are their levels that where you qualify via a sectional event? How does the Canadian system work?

Yes, Skate Canada Adult Championships are open events as most of the provinces don't have enough adult skaters who compete to have their own Sectional events at their province's StarSkate Sectionals which includes kid StarSkaters from Pre-Prelim StarSkaters to Gold StarSkate and Adult Bronze, Adult Silver, Adult Gold, Masters (Junior Silver, Senior Silver & Gold) and Competitive (Novice to Senior if there are at least 2 competitors) for freeskate, kids' Interpretive (Pre-Introductory, Introductory, Bronze, Silver, Gold), Adult Interpretive (same categories as kids'), Dance Preliminary to Gold partnered for kids and dance for Adults.

This means those of us who do compete at the StarSkate Sectionals compete knowing that it doesn't mean a thing where we place at Sectionals because it's just a showcase event for us (practice event). Although until the sections mark us under CPC it's not quite the same as Adult Canadians where all of us from Adult Bronze all the way through to Competitive are marked under CPC. Some provinces only have one skater in an event category. And there are events in which only 2 provinces have skaters for Adult Canadians. So we here in Canada are not ready to have qualifying events at StarSkate Sectionals or at any other event in the sections. You've got to remember the Skate Canada Adult Championships are only 5 years old and the first one wasn't even called an Adult Championship. It was only at the adult meeting after the first AC that most of us wanted to change the name to Adult Championships so Skate Canada changed the name.

At present any adult skater who has most of the elements to compete in pre-prelim or higher in freeskate, Junior Bronze or higher for Dance, prelim freeskate or higher for pairs and anyone wanting to try interpretive events for pre-introductory interpretive and higher can compete at Adult Canadians so long as they fill out all of the competition forms and have their test chair sign the forms along with their coach. Plus for freeskate, pairs and couples dance all adult skaters must fill program content forms online.

[CanadianAdult]

The national Skate Canada adult event is open to anyone with a chequebook and a stamp. There's no club or coach signature required and it is possible to compete in freeskate and interpretive without having ever passed a test. The quality of skating is varied, to say the least.

Sectional (eg provincial) competitions are slightly different. There still is no test requirement but forms have to be signed by a coach and club, thus proving at some time you have had a passing relationship with both and know what you are doing.

All of Skate Canada programs are under review at the moment for the Long Term Athlete Development model, so the structure of adult competition for 2010 is uncertain.