Figure Skating During Public Sessions

[Isk8NYC]

I had an interesting discussion with a NY/NJ friend last week regarding public sessions and figure skating. She had told me that all figure skating had been banned at her rink during publics. The background was this was caused by the behavior of a high-level skater during a few sessions. I think some of it is fallout from the large crowds around the holidays. There's probably also some desire to increase the number of people going to freestyle sessions, which are more expensive for the skater.

I remember skating at South Mountain Arena in New Jersey, which had the toughest rules for publics at the time:

No spirals
No jumps
No camel or layback spins
No turns outside the middle
No backskating outside the middleSeveral rinks today have "No Figure Skating During Public Sessions" edicts. The guards (if there are any) are clueless about what is / isn't allowed but they're very quick to challenge figure skaters. "No Figure Skating" is a far worse rule because it's sooooo vague and one-sided.

Does it mean figure skaters can't skate backward? Then why are the hockey kids allowed to skate backward?

No jumps should apply to everyone, the wanna-be barrel jumpers shouldn't be allowed to hurdle over the cones!

What would be REASONABLE skating rules for public sessions that can apply to everyone?

[Helen88]

I think the rules you posted are reasonable...perhaps not the backskating one, as that's tricky to distinguish (crossovers? Slaloms? Plain skating backwards?). I think rules for HOCKEY would be more suitable (though I suppose we're biased...) - no skid-stops or whatever they're called, no jumping for them either, no hockey turns...

Having said that, I think the beauty of public sessions is that people of all different levels skate there. Sometimes it's fun, just standing at the side, watching a couple of people do waltz-jumps, and couple practising crossovers, watching people in lessons, watching people stop in different ways, and sometimes just watching the little kids (then going over to help them up cos the stewards are miles away). I don't really think public sessions should JUST be people staggering around if you know what I mean.

[miraclegro]

We had parents complaining about the sticks and pucks on our p. sessions!!! And rightly so! And the management retaliated (can ya guess its a hockey rink?) by first taking away ALL freestyle, then implemented the rule that no jumps and spins allowed outside the middle and they can only be done if less than 25 skaters are on the ice. Sounds okay, with the stupied exception that in the weekend sessions they won't allow anything, which is STUPID, why can't they keep the same 25 or less rule?

FIgure skating is a great way to promote the LTS stuff and also private lessons!

Another rink had no jumps and no blade above the knee, meaning no camel spins but other were okay.

It only takes one dangerous and not caring person to ruin it for the rest of us who are very cautious to make rules change.

[abbi_1990]

at my rink there is no section coned off in the middle for figure skaters

figure skaters are banned from jumping on public sessions (wih the exception of thursday daytime, not sure what special about thursdays lol!)

figure skaters can do upright spins on public sessions e.g. 1 foot spin, 2 foot spin, scratch spin

however, the thing that irks me is that there isnt a list stating what is/isnt allowed on public sessions, so you dont find out till you try it and get told off :S

[Morgail]

Wow. I would cry if figure skating during publics was banned here. And I would be much poorer, money-wise!

I can see the no camels and no spirals rules being reasonable. Those can be very dangerous in a crowded session. And I can also see keeping figure skating to the middle of the rink as reasonable too (although, if that rule is enforced, than keeping non-figure skaters out of the middle - if it's coned off - should also be enforced).

However, I think that most figure skaters who skate on public sessions are smart enough to limit what they do if the session is crowded. Of course, that doesn't always happen, which is why rules like those are created in the first place.

From what I've seen, the figure skaters on public sessions are much more aware of people and space than the little hockey goons. Doing salchows in the middle circle is far less dangerous than weaving in and out of people who have no control over their skates.

[Sessy]

One rink in the Netherlands forbid to do anything "lifting the foot off the ice". Talk about vague rules... :roll: So if I was to do a broken leg spin with my foot 1 inch off the ice (provided I could), would that be more okay with the rules than forward skating with a nice extention or a 1-foot glide? What about backward lunges? :roll: Part of the reason for it was that their circle-rink (which was usually the favourite for the "can barely stand" crowd) burned out.

Here in the Netherlands, my own rink and some other rinks I've skated at (with friends 'n stuff) take you apart (once they notice you do more than 1-foot spins) and ask you to do anything you like, just use your head to keep it safe. I personally witnessed several of the girls skating nationals practicing doubles on public ice.
Didn't notice them landing on anybody or any bloodstains on the ice.
Seems to work.
I do think anybody doing any spin on busy public ice with a leg sticking really out will be taken off the ice. Ice management seems to think jumps are somehow safer than spins. Maybe they're right, little kids seem really drawn to spinners, but with jumps they don't get enough time to approach.

It also helps to just practice in the same spot for the general public to stay out of your way.

BTW our public sessions don't have a centre for figure skaters and freestyle ice isn't really very big here, at some rinks there is some but those require a coach is with you.

[vesperholly]

Yet another reason why I love my rink. It offers public sessions called "Open Figure Skate" every afternoon at 1pm. They are exactly like a club session but $3 (for town residents, you have to buy a town ID card once a year for $5) for almost 2 hours. I bring a stereo and borrow a microphone from the rink. The only thing you can't do is have a lesson. The sessions aren't crowded because of the time, and you can't beat the price. It's made a huge difference in my skating.

[Derek]

Like Sessy, our rink has quite a laid back approach to what can be done on public ice ... personally, I always pay a lot of attention to jumping safely, and find that often I will abort a jump because I am unhappy about a clear landing area ... the comment about spins is also true, they seem to attract young children. Nobody from the staff has taken me aside, but I think the standard of my skating is visible to all.

The only problem I have witnessed from a figure skater, was recently, on New Years Day. A mature lady, who should know better, persistently practiced camel spins on a session with many young children. I felt that a belligerent attitude like that could well blemish the current 'tolerance' towards figure skaters.

In the main though, I believe that figure skaters show awareness and consideration on public ice, and try and set an example.

The other problem however, is how many people are on public ice. On Saturdays, our ice is busy up until 12, but it thins dramatically as lunchtime approaches, and there is plenty of space. I am happy with our current practice.

[jp1andOnly]

figure skating/hockey drills/etc should all be banned from public skates. Hence the word "public" skate. Perhaps it's because I'm from Canada and it's very rare for figure skating/hockey drills with sticks and pucks to happen on public ice. They have "shinny" ice for hockey players and ice for figure skating.

[kayskate]

I think some rinks want to promote their very expensive FS sessions by forbidding ppl to practice skills on public even if public is not crowded, but I have seen these "rules" broken so many times. I understand the safety concerns, but there is a difference b/w a low FS skater trying a sit spin and a high FS skater flying around the rink doing doubles. A hockey skater at top speed weaving around ppl is just as dangerous as a figure skater skating backward or doing MITF. Rules are rarely aimed at hockey.

Kay

[miraclegro]

Yeah, and even my most favorite thing...

take away the figure skating, and the sticks and pucks, and then watch 'em do these really fast stroking things where they throw their bodies onto the ice and slide for....about...1/2 the rink (with all their friends!) ha ha - that's really safe!

[jskater49]

I think some rinks want to promote their very expensive FS sessions by forbidding ppl to practice skills on public even if public is not crowded, but I have seen these "rules" broken so many times. I understand the safety concerns, but there is a difference b/w a low FS skater trying a sit spin and a high FS skater flying around the rink doing doubles. A hockey skater at top speed weaving around ppl is just as dangerous as a figure skater skating backward or doing MITF. Rules are rarely aimed at hockey.

Kay

I guess I don't see anything evil in promoting figure skating sessions for figure skating. Yes, it's more expensive, because there are less people on the ice and because it's for figure skaters. Personally I don't mind paying the extra $ for that because to me it's safer than public skating and rather than seeing some sort of evil plot, I'm rather grateful our rink offers those sessions, although not at very convient times.

Maintaining ice is very expensive and most rinks are not making a lot of money.

j

[Derek]

figure skating/hockey drills/etc should all be banned from public skates. Hence the word "public" skate.


Hockey drills with sticks and pucks I can understand. But hockey stops between two lines? What other techniques would be allowed on public ice? Snowplough stops? Crossovers? Crossrolls? Mohawks? Slalom, on two feet or one? Backward skating and associated elements? Edgework? Most of these are fundamental to both figure and hockey skills, but are the natural extension after a person has learned to stand up and skate on two feet. In fact, these are all included in most learn to skate programmes (certainly in the UK).

[xofivebyfive]

Yeah at my rink no spirals, no camel spins because there are too many little kids that don't watch where they are going and could get their eyes poked out, so i don't mind those rules. But recently I was banned from spinning, IN THE MIDDLE. And we aren't allowed to skate backward. And even when there were maybe 15 people on the huge Olympic sized ice, and I'm clearly a figure skater who knows to watch behind her when she's skating, I got yelled at when I went backward when everyone else was on the other side of the rink. I think it's ridiculous to not let people spin or jump in the middle of the rink. If you put signs up or cones in the middle, then the public should know that that is figure skating ice, for the kids who practice on public sessions. The regular public does not need to go in the middle anyway, they should be skating around the outside. It's stupid because I know a lot of people who can't make it to the FS sessions because there aren't any after 2:45pm, and especially since I don't get out of school until 2:30, I've been forced to practice on public sessions, and now I can't even do that because I keep getting kicked out, even though I am so careful to watch for the little kids, and even when I have the right of way and am clearly already spinning with no one around me, and a little kid comes recklessly tearing towards me I stop and put myself in danger so they don't get hurt.

Also, I think the tiny 4 year olds who weave in and out of people's pathways are way more dangerous and disruptive than any figure skater I've ever seen on public ice. Plus, the only people who practice on public ice are those doing singles and lower, because for doubles you need more speed and lots of space. But those little hocky guys, (and even high school age and 40 year olds!) are so obnoxious! When I go skating with my friends, I am so scared for them, they freak out when they see the kids swerving in and out and it's just really annoying.

[CanAmSk8ter]

There's a big difference between an lunchtime public and an after-school or weekend public. Here, we have public from 11:30 to 1 four days a week, and pretty much anything goes because the "crowd" usually numbers no more than five people. Often I have the ice to myself at least part of the time. There's no skate monitor out there, but there's enough of us who are regulars that if someone's doing something obnoxious or dangerous, the managers know someone will come tell them.

Weekends are a different story. I won't teach privates on weekends- for true beginners, I don't think it's safe (they need to be watching where they're going in the crowd, not watching me), and for more advanced kids it's too crowded to be productive in the slightest. The middle gets coned off, mainly for high-LTS/freestyle-level kids having private lessons, but kids from LTS who want to practice are generally told to do so in the middle too. This leads to the middle being very crowded, especially since there aren't any real rules about who can/can't be there. The monitors are told not to let people cut through the middle or stop and hang out there, but we have parents who take their non-mobile toddlers into the middle (often right into the middle of someone's lesson) to try and get them moving. Or a hockey parent will try to get their child doing drills in the middle, since they can't change direction or skate backward around the edge.

We have public sessions after school every day, so we don't have all that many LTS kids coming on weekends to practice. Most of them figure out quickly, or are told by one of the coaches, that it's more productive to come during the week. It's tough to teach on them this time of year, but not impossible. A lot of it depends on which monitors are out there- some of them are pretty good about keeping kids from cutting through the middle, and some of them skate in circles and do nothing. As far as figure skating, they're allowed to play it by ear. If it's crowded, they'll tell any freestyle-level kids to stay in the middle. If it's fairly empty, they'll let them practice down at the ends, too. We don't generally have kids working on more than maybe a single flip and a sit spin practicing on public; after that they usually start skating mostly on club ice.

[CanAmSk8ter]

Also, I think the tiny 4 year olds who weave in and out of people's pathways are way more dangerous and disruptive than any figure skater I've ever seen on public ice. Plus, the only people who practice on public ice are those doing singles and lower, because for doubles you need more speed and lots of space. But those little hocky guys, (and even high school age and 40 year olds!) are so obnoxious! When I go skating with my friends, I am so scared for them, they freak out when they see the kids swerving in and out and it's just really annoying.

This reminded me of something else- does anyone's rink have a minimum age for kids to be on the ice without an adult? Our just says that "young children must be accompanied by an adult". There's obviously a difference between a child who takes or has taken lessons and one who doesn't, but I think kids under 10 should have to either be with an adult or have passed Pre-Alpha/ Basic 1/Hockey 1. The biggest menaces are the kids who are old enough to have to motor control be able to go fast, but haven't had any instruction and don't know how to stop, slow down, or turn to avoid someone. At least if there's an adult on the ice, there's someone to see the dangerous behavior and hopefully put a stop to it- and if they don't stop it, there's someone for the monitor to go over to and say, "Your child almost hit someone, he needs to slow down."

[Terri C]

My home rink is another rink that forbids not only figure skating on public sessions, but private lessons to held on public session ice as well.
As a result, you have right out of or still in LTS skaters skating on the freestyle ice with the more experienced ones doing doubles and up to Senior moves.

[Isk8NYC]

As a result, you have right out of or still in LTS skaters skating on the freestyle ice with the more experienced ones doing doubles and up to Senior moves.My kids are in that situation with our new Club; whoever isn't on lesson can usually be found right next to Mom. They tell me they're really scared. They were better on the early AM freestyle last week, which was less crowded and had only 1 or 2 strong skaters. We're going to try switching their lesson this week and see if it helps with the attention span.

Some rinks have LTS practice times, which is a better solution than a freestyle for lower-level skaters.

[liz_on_ice]

I think some rinks want to promote their very expensive FS sessions by forbidding ppl to practice skills on public even if public is not crowded

I have to think that is a bad strategy - you're not going to get people paying to freestyle bucks until they've been hooked on skating. If they can't practice in public sessions till they are good enough to be thoroughly addicted they'll get disgusted and move on. Plus it gives the forwards-in-a-circle crowd something to aim at, and maybe inspire some to take lessons.

[RinkRat321]

I remember skating at South Mountain Arena in New Jersey, which had the toughest rules for publics at the time:

No spirals
No jumps
No camel or layback spins
No turns outside the middle
No backskating outside the middle
What would be REASONABLE skating rules for public sessions that can apply to everyone?

wow, i think your rules are kind of strict! i mean if you cant jump do hard spins or spirals, what are you supposed to do? our rule is basically, keep all figure skating moves in the middle area marked by the cones and dont do anything above level freestyle 6, which is a rule me and my friend still break whenever we skate publics but the rink guards dont really care. they're hockey players and they dont know what stuff is in fs6 and whats higher level. as long as we dont crash into anyone we're good.

[ibreakhearts66]

we don't really have any rules at our rink about public sessions. i only skating publics after school, and for the most part it is pretty empty. the only dangerous days are wednesdays bc there is skate school after the public. but there are still no "no figure skating" rules. i've never seen any bad collisions--we all know to watch where we are going

[BuggieMom]

Our rink is great...you can do anything you want, lessons and all. My dd has even had dance lessons on publics. Of course, they were not crowded. She knows when she can do camels/flying camels and when she shouldn't. The only drawbacks are, no program music, and since she skates CW, she tends to go against the flow of the skaters. On the morning publics, sometimes there is no one but figure skaters, and they will let us play our music then.

She would rather skate publics than freestyles. Most of the time they are less crowded, and the atmosphere is more friendly. Besides, she is a total show off, and loves it when someone comes up to her and says "Wow!"

[Isk8NYC]

wow, i think your rules are kind of strict! i mean if you cant jump do hard spins or spirals, what are you supposed to do? our rule is basically, keep all figure skating moves in the middle area marked by the cones and dont do anything above level freestyle 6, which is a rule me and my friend still break whenever we skate publics but the rink guards dont really care. they're hockey players and they dont know what stuff is in fs6 and whats higher level. as long as we dont crash into anyone we're good.
That's exactly my point - figure skaters who ignore the easy-going rules are causing this "No Figure Skating" rule to be put into place. When someone figures out that you're doing things above the limits, the guard will be in trouble for allowing it and you can ruin figure skating on public sessions for everyone at your rink. What are you supposed to do? Obey the rules at the rink, of course. Don't wait for a crash to happen.

[kayskate]

I guess I don't see anything evil in promoting figure skating sessions for figure skating. Yes, it's more expensive, because there are less people on the ice and because it's for figure skaters. Personally I don't mind paying the extra $ for that because to me it's safer than public skating and rather than seeing some sort of evil plot, I'm rather grateful our rink offers those sessions, although not at very convient times.

j

I did not say there was an *evil plot*. I do not think it is an *evil plot*. However, rinks do want to fill FS sessions. However, I recognize a difference b/w a low FS skater and one who really needs the extra room. There is also a difference b/w a morning public will all adult skaters practicing low FS skills and a Sat afternoon public that is crowded w 100 ppl. IMO, putting low FS skaters on a hectic FS session w ppl doing doubles, triples and adv footwork may be more dangerous than having the low FS skater practice a waltz jump in the middle during a public.

Kay

[Kim to the Max]

I did not say there was an *evil plot*. I do not think it is an *evil plot*. However, rinks do want to fill FS sessions. However, I recognize a difference b/w a low FS skater and one who really needs the extra room. There is also a difference b/w a morning public will all adult skaters practicing low FS skills and a Sat afternoon public that is crowded w 100 ppl. IMO, putting low FS skaters on a hectic FS session w ppl doing doubles, triples and adv footwork may be more dangerous than having the low FS skater practice a waltz jump in the middle during a public.

Kay

I agree, Kay....While, I am not a high level skater (doubles, triples, etc), I am also not a low level skater...I tend to skate with a lot of power and speed (and my moves level is Intermediate). On our freestyle sessions we have such a mix of skaters, those doing doubles/triples all the way down to those learning 3-turns and mohawks. I have seen more near accidents in those situations than I have ever at public sessions where the low level skaters are in the middle practicing. I have almost taken a few of our lower level skaters out :( I'm always nervous about that...

I think some of the troubles on public sessions come in when more advanced skaters start practicing and there are too many people on the ice. Now, too many people is subjective...5 may be too many, 10 may be too many, etc. I think some of that has to do with the ability level and level of awareness of the public skaters. When I skate on campus here, I generally skate our "public" sessions (our rink is only open to students, faculty, staff, and alumni, and their families, so not truly public), because the freestyle times are when I am at work (they generally only run noon-1 and 4:30-5:30pm), but I am usually the only one on the ice. If I am not the only one on the ice, I am soooo careful with what I am doing, however, I am a lot more mobile on skates than a lot of the public skaters, so I do a lot of the avoiding if I'm doing moves or something...and if people are all over the place, I either move to something else that I can do in the middle or if it's really bad, I will leave because I don't want anyone to be put in danger because I'm trying to practice and they see a shiny blade in the air and want to touch it....

[Isk8NYC]

I didn't read anything about an evil plot, either. *shrugs* All rinks want to increase their freestyle attendance numbers. They need to find the right price point and schedule to market that segment well. They also have to have good ice.

Rules have to be sensible, fair and equitable, applied to everyone equally.

I think this trend is less about making money and more about mismanagement. For those with the coned-off FS middle, how many times are you STILL cut off by people cutting through, meeting up to chat, or using the cones as a slalom course? Guards don't even pay attention, yet they can see a ninny doing a lutz against traffic and the guards are scrambling to enforce! lol

[Bunny Hop]

If the rink I go to banned figure skating on public sessions then I would have to give up, as I'm not eligible to skate on patch (freestyle). According to the rules, you have to have passed a certain level of the rink's own Learn to Skate programme in order to skate on patch. This includes being able to do a waltz jump and a one foot spin. I can see myself getting the waltz jump eventually, but I was spin-challenged even when I skated as a teen, so it's possible I will never be technically eligible to skate on patch ice, even though this means I have to practice ice dance with my husband on public sessions. Anyway, my point is that with this rule, I can only practice, and take lessons, on public sessions (of club patch, which is different, but the timetabling of those sessions is not good for me).

I can certainly see why rink managers would be nervous about people doing high level jumps and spins on public sessions, but I think it would be near impossible to prescribe accurately what is, or more importantly, what isn't, dangerous, particularly as there is a world of difference between a quiet weekday morning session and a busy weekend afternoon. But most high level skaters wouldn't be going to those busy sessions anyway. Banning all figure skating would basically drive a lot of low level learners out of the sport, including some youngsters who might potentially go on to greater things.

N.B.: I just need to say that I don't have a problem with my rink's rules about patch as such. I do have a problem with the fact that the rule about passing level seems to be inconsistently applied, but that's totally off-topic for this thread.

[Sessy]

BTW over here schools are done at 12.00 on wednesdays and so the wednesday public session is children only. You're not getting in unless you're under 12 or accompanying somebody under 12. Same thing for sunday mornings.

Trouble is, there are no children-free public sessions, although the late tuesday night public session comes close.

I think there should be! Would make for safer skating.

[Helen88]

In return to what others have said, I also have my lesson on a public session (although I'm hopefully moving to patch soon). There are ABSOLUTELY no figure skating (or lack of) rules at our rink, and although the middle circle (I forgot to mention, the rink has hockey markings on, so technically I suppose it is a hockey ring...) is meant to be for figure skating only, it isn't the only place for figure skaters. Did that make sense?

[skatergee01]

it's okay when a section is cut off for figure skaters to practice their moves.

[jazzpants]

WOW!!! The only rule that's enforced is no jumping outside the middle of the rink... and that's only on a very crowded public session (usually on weekends... and I only know about that rule b/c kander broke that rule a few times and got CAUGHT!!! :lol: :twisted: :P ) During the less crowded weekday sessions and even the evening sessions, we got tons of lessons going on and A LOT of FS skaters!!! Everything in FS is pretty much allowed as long as you're courteous and careful. We're a very figure skater friendly rink, as you could imagine. When it's emptier, the skaters are also known for running their programs too.

BTW: My lesson just got switched to the noon time public session. I originally had my lessons on coffee club. No problem with that. I'm now preparing for AN and need a session that's much emptier and the public session is much emptier than the coffee club. (Of course, it could very well be that my coach is annoyed that I keep coming into my coffee club lesson late b/c my JOB keeps throwing me stuff to do at the very last minute EVERY SINGLE TIME I try to leave for a lesson!!! :roll: :lol: :P )

[dbny]

The rink where I've been working this season has clearly stated public session rules that the center is for figure skating and private lessons only, and that skaters may be asked to leave the center for those purposes and must obey. Unfortunately, this is one rule of about 20 posted in fine print, to fit them all on one page, and there are no announcements at all. The guards can only do so much on heavily crowded sessions, and have their hands full just going after the kids (and big kids) in hockey skates weaving in and out and running full speed out of control. When I'm teaching in the center, I find myself constantly shooing kids and adults out. Adults who have brought their tots to the rink and see a lesson in the center assume it's a teaching area, or for beginners. Over the holidays I filled in for rink management and was directing guards to watch the center when needed, and doing so myself also. It's a very, very difficult job, and most rinks cannot afford to staff high enough to do it right. IMO, it would take a minimum of 4 guards. One for each half of the rink for general guarding work, and two to enforce the center skating rules. What rink do you know that puts 4 guards on the ice regularly? Our public session rules also state that figure skaters cannot do any camels, spirals, or jumps over 1/2 rev. The guards are totally uninterested in enforcing that, and I had to ask a couple of visiting high level teenage skaters to stop doing Axels in the center when we had over a hundred people on the ice one day. OTOH, when the pubic sessions are relatively empty, skaters are sometimes even allowed to play their program music, and are given complete freedom with jumps, spins, and moves.

[dbny]

This discussion reminds me of the time, about 10 years ago, when we took younger DD to a public session at the Lussi rink at Lake Placid while on a camping trip. There were no jumps allowed, but there was only one guard present and no one watching off ice. DD skated behind the guard, jumping all the way around the rink as the guard made her circuits :lol:.

[Ellyn]

The number of skaters on the ice makes a huge difference.

My rink has a couple of open adult sessions at lunchtime during the week. Basically anything goes, as long as the skaters are all over 18. Because of the timing and age restrictions, they're never very crowded. Most skaters who use them have some figure skating skills, ranging from beginning edges to silver dances. There will usually be a couple of beginners and/or hockey skaters, and occasionally a speedskater.

With 20-30 skaters on the ice, I can usually get through moves in the field patterns with approximately as much interference as I would on a freestyle with similar numbers and practice jumps and spins in isolation. On the days that there are fewer than 10 skaters, I can pretty much do anything I want, including figures and full-rink spiral sequence with change of edge in the middle and backward spirals -- things I can't really do on a busy freestyle either. Or run through a program without music.

One guy I was talking to at the adult session the other week mentioned that his son is taking group lessons and is frustrated by not having as nice a session to practice on.

Other (all-ages) weekday daytime publics, or the earlier morning Sunday public, can be even emptier except when there are school groups attending in which case they can be as crowded as weekend and after-school/evening sessions. And of course, most kids can't regularly get to the sessions during school hours. But when they can get to those sessions on the days they're pretty empty, they should be good for practicing most skills.

I'd much rather practice on a crowded freestyle than a crowded public session. But when I can get to the empty lunchtime sessions it can be worth my while to pay public session price even for half an hour compared to almost twice as much for 45 or 60 minutes of freestyle.

For skaters who can't practice during the school day or work day and who need to practice for their basic skills or low freestyle classes and aren't ready to practice on freestyle sessions, it would be best to have some special practice sessions designated for those levels. "Low freestyle" or "group lesson practice" session. At least twice a week at different kinds of times.

[CanAmSk8ter]

The guards can only do so much on heavily crowded sessions, and have their hands full just going after the kids (and big kids) in hockey skates weaving in and out and running full speed out of control. When I'm teaching in the center, I find myself constantly shooing kids and adults out. Adults who have brought their tots to the rink and see a lesson in the center assume it's a teaching area, or for beginners. Over the holidays I filled in for rink management and was directing guards to watch the center when needed, and doing so myself also. It's a very, very difficult job, and most rinks cannot afford to staff high enough to do it right. IMO, it would take a minimum of 4 guards. One for each half of the rink for general guarding work, and two to enforce the center skating rules. What rink do you know that puts 4 guards on the ice regularly?

None, and I think another part of the problem is that at most rinks the guards are high-school kids. It's got to be intimidating when you're sixteen years old to be in a position where some kids won't listen to you and now you have to go ask parents to discipline their kids. Or when there's kids from your school skating too fast, and you're supposed to go tell a kid from your algebra class he has to slow down. I wish more rinks hired adults as monitors, but I suppose at a lot of rinks an adult who skates well enough to monitor can probably make more $$ helping with learn-to-skate.

[kayskate]

For skaters who can't practice during the school day or work day and who need to practice for their basic skills or low freestyle classes and aren't ready to practice on freestyle sessions, it would be best to have some special practice sessions designated for those levels. "Low freestyle" or "group lesson practice" session. At least twice a week at different kinds of times.

Most rinks cannot afford to have overly specialized sessions b/c there would not be enough ppl on the ice to make it profitable. Most FS sessions I have encountered are mixed levels or "open FS". However, I work in one rink where part of the ice is left for practice during grp lessons. Kids can skate there before or after their 1/2 hr lesson. It makes the grp lessons at this rink a very good deal b/c each lesson comes w 30 min of practice time. They also throw in 3 public session passes.

As for rink guards...How many have you seen that are more trouble than they are worth? I've seen many who use the session as a time to practice hockey skating. Of course, not all are like this, but I have seen it many times.

Kay

[fsk8r]

I'm at a rink where figure skating is banned from public ice, that's spins, jumps and spirals. I've heard 3-turns classified as spins one time, but normally they're quite sensible about these things.
The only way you get to do figure skating is if a) the rink is quiet and the stewards will then turn a blind eye. If you're in lesson and are not in the barriered off bit of the ice the no figure skating rules still apply although I guess if your coach asks you to do the spiral it's not quite so likely that you're going to get told off as they'll be told off first.

I don't think this is done to cause more people to do patch ice as they just say it's health and safety (then why not switch the lights ON during the evening public sessions as it's nice to be able to see the person in front of you BEFORE you skate into them).

Anyway, what gets me is that patch ice apparently has levels but these aren't consistently applied. Quite often lower level skaters are on patch sessions which are not appropriate for them and it causes chaos. It bugs me as I've been told I can't have lessons on those sessions even thought I am of the required standard because I'm too old (since when did age have anything to do with skating ability and I'm not THAT old), but others get away with it.
But I've come to the conclusion that's just the way rink rules work. They apply to some of us and others do as they please. I'm just glad that I can practice on public ice one evening a week, because technically I'm behind the cones which is "lesson ice" even thought I'm not in lesson as I go to the group lesson earlier in the evening. The coach is very nice in not kicking us out of the "lesson ice" and the stewards ignore the regulars in there and kick out the odd public skater who ventures in.

[sk8_4fun]

I guess I don't see anything evil in promoting figure skating sessions for figure skating. Yes, it's more expensive, because there are less people on the ice and because it's for figure skaters. Personally I don't mind paying the extra $ for that because to me it's safer than public skating and rather than seeing some sort of evil plot, I'm rather grateful our rink offers those sessions, although not at very convient times.

Maintaining ice is very expensive and most rinks are not making a lot of money.

j

At our rink you can only use the patch ice (freestyle) if you are having lessons from a coach who works at the rink so if no coach= no patch access. If you cant figure skate on public either I guess you're pretty much stuffed!

[blackmanskating]

Wow!!! I just read all of the posts and the rules are all so confusing to me. This is why I skate the morning Freestyle session. There aren't a lot of skaters on the ice and the morning session has a reduced price. The only time I skate publics is when my family wants to go skating and most of the time I am too busy teaching them the basics to consider doing any advanced stuff.


BlackManSkating

[myste12]

I've always skated on a lot of public sessions. It's much cheaper! However, I do limit myself based on the number of people present and the general traffic on the session. I'll do pretty much anything on daytime publics because they rarely have more than 1-5 people on them and that includes me. On weekends, I might play around with spins in the opposite direction or a bit of footwork, but my rink is definitely way too crowded for camels and spirals!

My current rink actually encourages coaches to use publics for LTS lessons in the center; it's great advertising! However, there aren't any rink guards, and the middle quickly becomes crowded with chatting teenagers and parents with toddlers that can barely stand. It's not ideal for lessons, but for people who can't make weekday afternoon practice or early Saturday morning practice, it's the only choice.

[BatikatII]

N.B.: I just need to say that I don't have a problem with my rink's rules about patch as such. I do have a problem with the fact that the rule about passing level seems to be inconsistently applied, but that's totally off-topic for this thread.

It is inconsistently applied, so if you are keen then it's worth asking the head coach if you can go on patch to do dance. You should certainly be allowed on if you are having a lesson with a coach, as I have seen even the previous head coach (who brought in the rule in the first place ) do this with his pupils. The whole reason it was brought in to begin with was, I believe, partly to do with wanting less people on the ice when one of his top level skaters was practising. This skater is no longer around, so they may be more open to changing the rule - even if only for the 9.30-10.30 session which is mostly adults. This patch only came in to being because of adult pressure (got the ice cut changed from 10am before public session to 9am so we get an hour of lovely ice from 9.30-10.30) so I personally think all adults should be allowed on it!

AFAIK our rink has always allowed both practising and lessons on public ice. If they didn't our coaches wouldn't make much money. Usually there is a bit coned off for lessons but after the LTS courses they gave cheap rates to those who stayed on for the public session afterwards and encouraged it even on a busy weekend. You rarely got more than a few single jumps and basic spins but a friend's daughter had lessons on public sessions for years and used to run her programme through on a Saturday morning and was adept at finding space to land her axel despite crowds.

The rink guards get to know who the regulars are and the informal rules seem to work in that we figure skaters know not to practice camels or back spirals if it's busy.

They don't cone off the middle though - they usually do one end or the other so the poor public, if they are not very good, find they have to cross the open expanse of the rink rather than clinging to the side all the way round.;)

[Isk8NYC]

I've often thought it would be nice to have a "beginner's section" at one end of the rink where the wallhuggers and newbies could feel safe.

[jazzpants]

I've often thought it would be nice to have a "beginner's section" at one end of the rink where the wallhuggers and newbies could feel safe.I thought that's what the walls are for? :P :twisted: :lol:

[Isk8NYC]

I thought that's what the walls are for? :P :twisted: :lol:
Yeah, but it's like playing on the shoulder of a highway, isn't it? A safety zone for tots and tottering skaters would be nice.

[doubletoe]

Yeah, but it's like playing on the shoulder of a highway, isn't it? A safety zone for tots and tottering skaters would be nice.

I think there needs to be a special lane for those who think they're hotshot skaters but actually have no skill or control whatsoever. We could just call it the "Testosterone lane" and have barriers on both sides of that lane, leaving the inside for the figure skaters and the outside wall for the wall-huggers. ;)

[FSWer]

"Hi, I just wanted to respond by saying first,that I don't know if this counts or not. But at Newington Ice Arena were they also hold Hockey. It says on the Public Skating flyer for each month that Private lessons are not allowed during Public Skate times. The only thing a Parent during that time did for me was hold me up. As I'm not used to Hockey Skates. As far as Figure Skating during it there gos. I'm not really sure about the policy. But I do know that at least for the LTS.= Learn To Skate Program they cone off sec's. of the ice according to either level or the Freeskate half of the Program.

[hepcat]

Adults who have brought their tots to the rink and see a lesson in the center assume it's a teaching area, or for beginners. I've seen adults do this and wondered why the heck they would get right in the middle with the littlest and most vulnerable skaters where the other kids are practicing spins. At least you've answered that question.

My daughter takes private lessons on a public session that is so crowded I don't even feel comfortable going out on the ice myself. Somehow she and her coach make it work, but since I can go to sessions mid-morning when the ice is nearly deserted, it's not worth my time.

[jazzpants]

I think there needs to be a special lane for those who think they're hotshot skaters but actually have no skill or control whatsoever. We could just call it the "Testosterone lane" and have barriers on both sides of that lane, leaving the inside for the figure skaters and the outside wall for the wall-huggers. ;)Yeah, and unfortunately that "special lane" was right along the wall tonight. :roll: :P One guy literally went and skated right into me and grab hold of me as to hoping that I would be a strong as a wall but was literally dragging me down along with him. Lucky for me, I WAS strong enough to hold up him. (And BTW, the guy is at least 5' 8" and a bit overweight too. Imagine skinny little 'ol me holding HIM up!!! The gym workout and all the years skating must be good enough for something, huh? :lol: )

[Sessy]

yeah that's my "favourite". When they don't know how to stop and just grab on to anybody who looks like they won't let them fall and figure they'll excuse themselves later. Do they even realise some of us have injuries?! :evil:

[looplover]

I've seen adults do this and wondered why the heck they would get right in the middle with the littlest and most vulnerable skaters where the other kids are practicing spins. At least you've answered that question.

I know!!!! Beginning, never skated before adults too. I saw a ton of this on Sunday at my practice rink.

This particular session is anything goes but I personally love it because it's usually not that crowded and ends up more like a freestyle. But it gets a little crazy. At this public session we've got one juniors skater doing doubles (though this skater is really the most gracious, careful high level skater I've ever seen and aborts every move if anyone is near her jump area). At least five high level kids who practice camels. One high level adult who does her silver program at top speed. Various hockey guys doing drills. Me trying...whatever (no danger of camels, there). LTS tiny kids. The general public hugging the boards.

I have no idea why I've never seen a collision...the middle isn't coned off and we don't really have a skate guard per se, but one of the coaches is usually on the ice giving lessons and she scolds people when they need it :)

Anyway it amazed me last Sunday when I saw various people going to the middle to learn how to skate forward right next to kids doing camels. Why, just why?

[Isk8NYC]

The beginners and parents "magnetic middle" fascinates me, so I've actually asked them "Why did you come out here?" I mean, it's work to trundle a tot across traffic to the center where there's no support.

Part of the "let's go the middle" is to just get away from the traffic going around the sides. One woman said it felt like she was "guarding" her daughter from the wild skaters and she's not a great skater herself.

When there are tons of skaters just hanging out on the boards, it gets tiring for a parent to steer their toddler around the obstacles. (Not to mention the language used by the Chatty Cathy's. No offense Cathy.)

The other reason is that the ice isn't as choppy, so they feel more secure in letting go of the child to try a few steps. Without anyone whizzing through and across the middle (yeah, right), they really did think it was a safety zone.

I pointed out that one of my size 10 blades whipping around in a scratch spin isn't really very safe, either. lol

*Soapbox Out*
If there were better general session rules enforced, hanging out on the wall (or anywhere on the ice) would be eliminated. Better behavior, ie. no snowing, racing, weaving through the crowd, would make skating a less intimidating experience for people. These are your future skaters, rink manager! You've cut down on the number of public sessions because of cost. As a result, you have bigger crowds that need more management. Otherwise, half the attendees won't come back because "it's too dangerous." Wonder why most of the rinks I've checked with have very low LTS registrations this year? Some of it is because of it being in between Olympic seasons, but I think a lot of it is lack of promotion and poor management.

[dbny]

Part of the "let's go the middle" is to just get away from the traffic going around the sides. One woman said it felt like she was "guarding" her daughter from the wild skaters and she's not a great skater herself.

When there are tons of skaters just hanging out on the boards, it gets tiring for a parent to steer their toddler around the obstacles. (Not to mention the language used by the Chatty Cathy's. No offense Cathy.)

The other reason is that the ice isn't as choppy, so they feel more secure in letting go of the child to try a few steps. Without anyone whizzing through and across the middle (yeah, right), they really did think it was a safety zone.


ITA. At the rink where I teach, the center circle is actually THE center circle, so I often point out the space between the circle and the nearest blue line, which is lightly travelled compared to the rest of the rink, and tell nervous parents they can use that space.

Poor management will lower those LTS classes every time. I once saw a school go from 100 in their first season down to 50 the next season for one simple reason. The Skating Director could not leave well enough alone and moved kids from class to class every week! There was mass confusion, with lists posted on the glass for parents to find their child's class, and crowds in front of the lists making that difficult. The SD didn't have a clue and poured money into advertising.

[Bunny Hop]

It is inconsistently applied, so if you are keen then it's worth asking the head coach if you can go on patch to do dance. You should certainly be allowed on if you are having a lesson with a coach,
Thanks Batikat. I will certainly consider this, particularly after we almost collided with a child in our dance lesson today (not a beginner - a child who has been skating some time, has private lessons, and was skating towards us at the time, but must have been temporarily blind...:roll: ).
the 9.30-10.30 session which is mostly adults. This patch only came in to being because of adult pressure (got the ice cut changed from 10am before public session to 9am so we get an hour of lovely ice from 9.30-10.30) so I personally think all adults should be allowed on it!
That's interesting to know as well.

[Mrs Redboots]

At our rink you can only use the patch ice (freestyle) if you are having lessons from a coach who works at the rink so if no coach= no patch access.It's the same at our rink. In practice, what tends to happen is that people have their lessons on public sessions until they're about Skate-UK level 10, or working on their Passport, although people do go on patch before then - and, I imagine, have lessons on public ice when they are beyond that, depending on what suits.

I haven't skated on a public session for years, but the adult l-t-s classes held on Tuesday and Thursday evenings are on public ice - they cone off anything up to 2/3 the rink for the classes, as needed. The Saturday and Sunday morning classes are on dedicated ice.

[JazzySkate]

By ISK8NYC -
I remember skating at South Mountain Arena in New Jersey, which had the toughest rules for publics at the time:
No spirals
No jumps
No camel or layback spins
No turns outside the middle
No backskating outside the middle

I also skated there until a few years ago when they implimented the policy of "Private lessons only in the middle of the rink - no Freestyle." So let's say you just took a group lesson that included learning a two or one-foot spin and wanted to practice those skills or a few forward 3-turns or forward Mohawks during the public. Tough-you had to do it (or them) in the Lutz corners; or no privates showed up during the public session or showed up during part of. That meant the middle was empty and you still couldn't practice...! I could see that rule for the above-mentioned list - but no one or two foot spins?? No joke doing a spin in the corners when people are zooming so close you could take them out.

[Derek]

It's the same at our rink. In practice, what tends to happen is that people have their lessons on public sessions until they're about Skate-UK level 10, or working on their Passport...

I have only had lessons so far on public ice, but since I am doing the passport gold level, I am reaching the point where I will be doing my programme, which can only be performed on patch of course ... my only experience of patch at the moment is the club session (this is classified as patch) which is chaotic for a leftie such as myself ...

Same patch rules here - no coach, no patch (club sessions excluded)

[BatikatII]

I have only had lessons so far on public ice, but since I am doing the passport gold level, I am reaching the point where I will be doing my programme, which can only be performed on patch of course ... my only experience of patch at the moment is the club session (this is classified as patch) which is chaotic for a leftie such as myself ...

Same patch rules here - no coach, no patch (club sessions excluded)

Why can't you do your programme on the public session? You said it is not so busy near lunchtime. If you are in lesson your coach can help to clear a path for you too. I did my programmes, both dance and free, on public session for years - admittedly not Saturday ones, but it can be done. Can be easier than a busy club or rink patch as often people will get out of your way or stop to watch if you look like you can do something.

[sk8tmum]

figure skating/hockey drills/etc should all be banned from public skates. Hence the word "public" skate. Perhaps it's because I'm from Canada and it's very rare for figure skating/hockey drills with sticks and pucks to happen on public ice. They have "shinny" ice for hockey players and ice for figure skating.

I'm Canadian too ... and it varies from rink to rink. I've even had little kids with their sticks and pucks on Parent And Tot skates, slamming pucks into the boards, with the Parents playing goalie - !

[Derek]

Why can't you do your programme on the public session?

I agree that it would probably be possible to do a programme on a quiet public session, except that the only music allowed is the rink music (I assume this is for licensing reasons). The quiet phase on the saturday lunchtime is a relative thing, compared to the hoards which are often at the rink up until about 1230.

[BatikatII]

I agree that it would probably be possible to do a programme on a quiet public session, except that the only music allowed is the rink music (I assume this is for licensing reasons). The quiet phase on the saturday lunchtime is a relative thing, compared to the hoards which are often at the rink up until about 1230.

Does that mean they dont' even allow the coaches to play programme music during publics. That would make it difficult. We are lucky in that regards since coaches can play programme music during public sessions and when it is quiet (and if they know you are a regular) you can play programme music yourself as long as you put the 'rink' music back on afterwards.:D

[doubletoe]

Anyway it amazed me last Sunday when I saw various people going to the middle to learn how to skate forward right next to kids doing camels. Why, just why?

Camel moths. . . a true ice rink phenomenon! 8O

[jskater49]

Does that mean they dont' even allow the coaches to play programme music during publics. That would make it difficult. We are lucky in that regards since coaches can play programme music during public sessions and when it is quiet (and if they know you are a regular) you can play programme music yourself as long as you put the 'rink' music back on afterwards.:D

At our public and figure free sessions, you cannot play music over the public system - that's only for club sessions, but you can put a portable player on the boards and play it and try to listen to it above the public session music.

They made this rule because we had outside coaches who were not playing nice when it came to music (wouldn't take turns or follow protocal) so the rink just said "no music"

j

[looplover]

Camel moths. . . a true ice rink phenomenon! 8O

LOL!!!!! :mrgreen:

[Derek]

Does that mean they dont' even allow the coaches to play programme music during publics. That would make it difficult.

The only music during public sessions is the rink music, which is fed from a cabin at the top of the rink. It is piped music, which is distributed to all the rinks in the group.

Patch music is played from a separate location, which is locked up by the head coach at the end of patch sessions.

[BatikatII]

The only music during public sessions is the rink music, which is fed from a cabin at the top of the rink. It is piped music, which is distributed to all the rinks in the group.

Patch music is played from a separate location, which is locked up by the head coach at the end of patch sessions.

Then we are luckier than I realised since the rink has two systems. The one the DJ's use for disco sessions and gets used during the panto etc and a rinkside one which plays the public session discs and which the coaches can use at any time. Just as well for me since I now have my dance lessons on public session again (but weekday morning so usually very quiet).

Jskater49: I guess we are also lucky that visiting coaches have always followed our rink's system for music very well. Also while our coaches are self-employed they tend to 'belong' to a certain rink much more than it appears many American/Canadian coaches do and therefore the rink has to allow them to play music or they don't make enough money to stay. They tend to have reciprocal arrangements with coaches at nearby rinks so they come if there is a problem with their ice or to practice before the rink's open comp.

Most UK rinks have only one ice pad so patch sessions are probably fewer than in US /Canada too.

[Scarlett]

I am very lucky. At the rink that I typically skate publics at anything goes. There are absolutely no rink guards in the morning, the ice is usually fairly empty, and the skaters/coaches just use the rink music system as we see fit. Regular freestyle rules apply as far as ice etiquette.

I don't skate on weekends so I don't know what happens on busy sessions.

[ibreakhearts66]

man, i cant get over how strict all your rinks are! i guess it's really that my rink is super lenient, but since that's all i know, it seems like you all go to strict rinks.

the figure skaters pretty much control the music during public session. we can do programs, but we also just bring cds to play. we pretty much always have our lessons on public. singles, doubles, triples, we do them all on public. for the most part, our public sessions are not very crowded and are really more like freestyles with random beginning skaters. but even the couple of times i've skated the most crowded session, saturday afternoon, a few people (including me) were doing axels and doubles. of course, we are very careful about watching where we are going. i guess we are just used to it, because there are pretty much never any collisions. man if i could only do freestyle sessions, i dont know what i'd do! i'd NEVER be able to afford it, and i would probably be more scared. at least in public sessions, you know where the beginner skaters are going. even if they do randomly change direction, you can still swerve to avoid them. i'm able to avoid the super-fast, reckless skaters pretty well. i guess, overall, i'm more comfortable on a public than a freestyle because it is easier to predict where people are going. also, collisions on freestyle sessions are so much worse--talk about high impact!