Cannon ball spin

[jshbo724]

Does anyone else here do this spin? I absolutely love it, but don't see it all that often. Does anyone also know what level it is considered? Mine has been consistent, and it is my favorite to do because it is so fun. :D

Also, are there any other pre-pre skaters doing this spin?

[techskater]

It's a feature so if you can do another difficult position with it, then it will be L2. It's become very popular to do with a broken leg.

[doubletoe]

It becomes a level 2 if you add another feature, as Techskater said. Two features you might consider are grabbing your free foot and pulling up into a Y spin afterwards, or starting the spin as a reverse sitspin before going into the cannonball.

[GordonSk8erBoi]

I've never heard of this, can someone describe it?

[RinkRat321]

Also, are there any other pre-pre skaters doing this spin?

i'm a pre pre skater and i just started working on it. it's fun but its reeeally hard to center!

[Skittl1321]

i'm a pre pre skater and i just started working on it. it's fun but its reeeally hard to center!



here's a vid of me trying it clickk (http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=6api1jt)

note: i said trying ahha, like i said i have a reeeally hard time centering it so its like 2 rotations lol but at least you can get an idea of what it looks like :)

I'm confused now- that looked like a sit spin- what's the difference (or did you link to the wrong video- this had way more than 2 rotations). Is it that you grabbed your leg? I thought a cannonball looked more like someone squatting.


Edit to add: This is what wikipedia shows as a cannonball- and more what I was thinking of. Is this not what others consider to be a cannonball spin? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/Kevin_Van_Der_Perren_-_piruet.JPG/89px-Kevin_Van_Der_Perren_-_piruet.JPG

[RinkRat321]

Edit to add: This is what wikipedia shows as a cannonball- and more what I was thinking of. Is this not what others consider to be a cannonball spin? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/Kevin_Van_Der_Perren_-_piruet.JPG/89px-Kevin_Van_Der_Perren_-_piruet.JPG

hmm, im pretty sure that's a picture of a pancake spin but im not positive. in the video i posted i did a sit spin, but when i grabbed my leg that part was the cannon ball. thats why i said it was only like 2 rotations because the cannon ball part of it was very short

[blackmanskating]

The Cannonball spin is actually my favorite spin to do. Lucinda Ruh was famous for it and Johnny Weir has one of the best cannonball positions I've ever seen. Someone said that it is tough to center and they are right. But think of it like this: sit in a chair and cross your left leg over your right so that your left ankle is resting on your right knee. This creates a triangular opening between your knees. Place your left arm in that opening as you bend forward at the waist and attempt to rest your chest against your bent right leg. Your right arm rests on the other side of your right leg. This is the position for a back cannonball spin. The better your flexibility, the better the position will look. It will make you dizzy at first. Just don't fall over on your head. (Not Fun) :frus: I think it is sometimes called a pancake spin too. Cannonball sounds better.

BlackManSkating

[Skittl1321]

The Cannonball spin is actually my favorite spin to do. Lucinda Ruh was famous for it and Johnny Weir has one of the best cannonball positions I've ever seen. Someone said that it is tough to center and they are right. But think of it like this: sit in a chair and cross your left leg over your right so that your left ankle is resting on your right knee. This creates a triangular opening between your knees. Place your left arm in that opening as you bend forward at the waist and attempt to rest your chest against your bent right leg. Your right arm rests on the other side of your right leg. This is the position for a back cannonball spin. The better your flexibility, the better the position will look. It will make you dizzy at first. Just don't fall over on your head. (Not Fun) :frus: I think it is sometimes called a pancake spin too. Cannonball sounds better.

BlackManSkating

This is exactly what I was thinking was a cannonball spin. Apparently there are two different spins going by this name though!

[MQSeries]

The Cannonball spin is actually my favorite spin to do. Lucinda Ruh was famous for it and Johnny Weir has one of the best cannonball positions I've ever seen. Someone said that it is tough to center and they are right. But think of it like this: sit in a chair and cross your left leg over your right so that your left ankle is resting on your right knee.

What you're describing is the pancake spin. I have never seen Lucinda perform a cannonball sit spin. Linda Fratianne was known for the cannonball sitspin. She always did it as part of her spin combination. Think of doing a sit spin in the Mike's Pike position and that's your cannonball spin.

[blackmanskating]

I have heard this name used interchangeably for the spin I've described. Cannonball/Pancake doesn't really matter to me so long as I learn to do it well.


BlackManSkating

[doubletoe]

I always got confused, too, but apparently, this is how the terms seem to be defined among most skaters these days:

Cannonball: Sitspin with free leg extended straight out, hands holding free leg ankle and chest and face flat down to free leg thigh. This is what jshbo724 is working on.

Pancake or mushroom spin: Sitspin with free leg bent and opened out, ankle or free foot resting on spinning knee, chest and head down (this is what is shown in the Wikipedia photo)

[Skittl1321]

I always got confused, too, but apparently, this is how the terms seem to be defined among most skaters these days:

Cannonball: Sitspin with free leg extended straight out, hands holding free leg ankle and chest and face flat down to free leg thigh. This is what jshbo724 is working on.

Pancake or mushroom spin: Sitspin with free leg bent and opened out, ankle or free foot resting on spinning knee, chest and head down (this is what is shown in the Wikipedia photo)

Someone who plays on wikipedia should change these spins and name the pancake spin, and write something about the cannonball spin.

I've heard what I call a cannonball spin be called a pancake spin, but this thread is the first instance that I've heard cannonball as a sort of sit spin.

[doubletoe]

Someone who plays on wikipedia should change these spins and name the pancake spin, and write something about the cannonball spin.

I've heard what I call a cannonball spin be called a pancake spin, but this thread is the first instance that I've heard cannonball as a sort of sit spin.

They are both considered difficult variations of the sitspin.

[Skittl1321]

They are both considered difficult variations of the sitspin.

Really? So the "pancake" cannonball isn't considered an upright spin? I guess the leg is bent a bit- but not nearly to the extent of a sit spin, it doesn't seem.

Edit- I noticed someone changed the wiki entry to show that both can be called cannonball, and to change the photo to call it pancake :)

[wasabi]

Cannonball: Sitspin with free leg extended straight out, hands holding free leg ankle and chest and face flat down to free leg thigh. This is what jshbo724 is working on.

Pancake or mushroom spin: Sitspin with free leg bent and opened out, ankle or free foot resting on spinning knee, chest and head down (this is what is shown in the Wikipedia photo)

This is right. The crouching/squatting spin mentioned earlier is a broken leg spin (feet kind of next to each other, but free leg angled out). The "pancake" spin in the wikipedia photo isn't really a pancake at all but an intermediate position (aka, not an upright, not a sit, so you wouldn't get any credit for it at all). A pancake is considered a difficult variation of a sit spin, and to count to increase the level, the top half of the skating leg must be parallel to the ice.

[doubletoe]

Really? So the "pancake" cannonball isn't considered an upright spin? I guess the leg is bent a bit- but not nearly to the extent of a sit spin, it doesn't seem.

Edit- I noticed someone changed the wiki entry to show that both can be called cannonball, and to change the photo to call it pancake :)

Heh heh. Yeah, that was me. Unfortunately, I don't think the photo description change was permanently saved because I don't know how to do all the reference info. stuff. Anyway, I was looking around online and saw that some of the older definitions of "cannonball" described the pancake with arms grabbing skating ankle (a la Johnny Weir) but that more recent references to a "cannonball" all seem to specify that the free leg is out straight and chest is flat to the free leg. And on some Johnny Weir discussion board, someone corrected those who called his spin position a "cannonball", saying it was, in fact, a pancake spin.

And yes, if a pancake is done with the butt higher than the skating knee, it will not count as a sitspin variation, but instead as an upright spin variation. Not sure if it would be counted as a difficult variation of an upright spin or not.

[jshbo724]

Here's my cannon ball:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pzVA1S_S1ZY

So would this spin still count in a pre-pre competition program?

[doubletoe]

Here's my cannon ball:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pzVA1S_S1ZY

So would this spin still count in a pre-pre competition program?

Yeah! That's a nice cannonball spin, and your butt is definitely lower than your spinning knee. Just remember, in Pre-pre, you probably aren't being judged on the new IJS system yet, so it's not really something that would have a point value (just would impress the judges). But if you are judged on IJS, you'll need one more feature to bring the spin to a level 2 and get more points. Can you go from the cannonball position into a broken leg or pancake position? Or if you want to make it a combination spin rather than a solo sitspin, you've got other options as well.

BTW, I thought there was an age limit for competing at Pre-pre (below 13?).

[wasabi]

And yes, if a pancake is done with the butt higher than the skating knee, it will not count as a sitspin variation, but instead as an upright spin variation. Not sure if it would be counted as a difficult variation of an upright spin or not.

If it's a clear upright position, it would count, but the technical specialists, this season in particular, have gotten very, very hard on "intermediate" positions, which would probably include that wiki photo. If the position can't be grouped in one of the three basic categories (upright including layback, camel, sit), then you don't get any extra credit for it. I'm guessing the position in that wiki photo would get called as a difficult variation of an upright 1/3 of the time, a non-difficult (and thus no extra level) variation of an upright 1/3 of the time, and an intermediate position 1/3 of the time.

And jshbo, I'm not really familiar with pre-pre (back when I skated it, you could win with only jumps as high as a loop!), but if you're not using the new judging system, then you certainly won't get penalized for it -- the judges will most likely reward you for having more difficult spins. And it looked to me, on that one at least, that your butt was low enough to count as a difficult variation of a sit spin (of course, you need another variation to get a level 2).

[twokidsskatemom]

Yeah! That's a nice cannonball spin, and your butt is definitely lower than your spinning knee. Just remember, in Pre-pre, you probably aren't being judged on the new IJS system yet, so it's not really something that would have a point value (just would impress the judges). But if you are judged on IJS, you'll need one more feature to bring the spin to a level 2 and get more points. Can you go from the cannonball position into a broken leg or pancake position? Or if you want to make it a combination spin rather than a solo sitspin, you've got other options as well.

BTW, I thought there was an age limit for competing at Pre-pre (below 13?).

There is no age limit for pre pre.
There is for juv, 13 and below.If you are older than 13 you compete in op0en juv.
Interme is 18
And to be honest, alot of the 6.0 comps, pre juv and under are being judged by the judges that do the IJS. Its still under 6.0 but I think they are viewed more under the new system.Might as well get used to it.
:)