Horrible Fall (Sharp Pain) *BONUS SPIRAL TANGENT*

[blackmanskating]

I had a nasty fall during a spiral sequence that my coach made me do. :twisted: Let me be the first to say that I hate spirals with every fiber in my being and I see no point for a guy to do them. Well I tripped off my toepick while going forward in a futile attempt to lift my leg higher. :bow: I slammed down on my left hip while trying to protect my face. I am in all sorts of pain now and I'm not sure how serious it is. It hurts to put any weight on my left side so now I am limping when I walk. I soaked in hot water for an hour and it feels a little better but my coach is very concerned. I don't want to waste money going to see a doctor if it isn't necessary so I'm hoping that someone on this forum can help determine if I should go to the doc or not. The good news is that even though I fell, I pushed through the pain and finished the exercise. :roll: Can anyone offer any advice :?: Thanks in advance.


BlackManSkating

[Isk8NYC]

Don't use heat right away - it's better for stiffness/soreness than for impact injuries.

R-I-C-E TREATMENT FOR THINGS THAT WENT BUMP ON THE ICE:

Rest: Get off the hip and stop walking around if you can for a while.
Ice: Get an ice pack and do 20 minutes with the ice, 20 minutes off. Repeat for at least a few hours.
Compression: Hips are tough to wrap, but try and put an ace bandage or similar on it to keep the swelling down.
Elevation: Rest on your other side so the blood flows away from the injured area.

If you're still in pain after several hours of RICE, get thee to a doctor, please.

Get well soon!

[Scarlett]

I wholeheartedly agree with the RICE and would also add an anti-inflammatory as long as your heart/kidneys are in good shape. Ibuprofen (Advil) 600-800 mg taken every 8 hours with food is effective as is Naproxen (Aleve) 440 mg every 8 hours with food. I would give it a try for a day or two and then hightail it to the doctor if it doesn't help.

Hope you feel better.

[Terri C]

I agree with the above, plus......
Get some padding!! I'm looking into the SkatingSafe fall protection pads. I hope to order the spine protector this week- my butt/tailbone took a beating on both 8 step mohawk and sitspin the last few weeks.
But if you cannot at all put any weight on that hip- GET TO A DOCTOR STAT!!

[doubletoe]

Keeping my fingers crossed that your hip is just bruised and will be better after some R-I-C-E and Advil. (FX!)

Meanwhile, here are a few things that will keep this from happening again:
1. Before trying a spiral, warm up, stretch against the boards, then do a spiral position while holding onto the boards.
2. Consider trying a spiral position backwards before trying it forwards, since you can't have that toepick fall while going backwards (the worst that can happen is that your toepick will scrape and slow you down). If you find yourself pitching forward on the back spiral, that means you need to arch your back more and pull your hips back and push your skating foot forward. Once you feel stable, try it forward and focus on keeping all your weight on the heel.
3. Whenever you do a forward spiral, lift the toes of your skating foot inside the boot. I've never had a toepick-induced face plant since someone told me that trick a few years ago.

[lovepairs]

Blackman,

Do the "Rice." If you can sleep through the night you will probably be okay. Take some IBProfin to reduce the swelling. However, if it swells to an unbelievable size and you can't sleep, and no matter how you stand, or sit, or lie down it is still uncomfortable...skip the doctor and just go to the emergancy ward. I had this happen to me once and I just tore something inside. Don't worry in the end you will be okay and back on the ice.

Now, when you get back on the ice and start doing your spirals, again, which you will, please follow these rules:

When you are in a forward spiral, all the weight should be back on your skating heal, with your heal pushed out as far infront of you as you can hyper extend you knee on the skating foot...this way there is no way in hell that you will ever trip over your toe, again.

The reverse is true:

On a backward spiral, all of the weight shifts up to the ball of your foot.

I'm sure that you'll be okay...let us know if you get through the night.

[eliza1]

Do you have full range of motion in the hip?? Did you actually fall on the joint (ball and socket area) or on the iliac crest?? The reason I ask, is that at the beginning of March I had a bad fall -- normally when I fall(even a bad one) I spring up and just continue -- after this fall, I did immediately get up, however, had to glide off the ice and once on land could hardly put any pressure on my right leg. As my lesson was in 30 minutes, I tried to stretch it out, however, when I attempted to get back on the ice and just do cross overs I couldn't put any weight on the right side when crossing over, in fact, couldn't cross the leg over at all. That evening it was so sore and I had no abduction. Cut a long story short, one week later I finally went to A & E for an x-ray and it showed I had chipped the iliac crest. The actual dx was an avulsion fracture of the iliac crest caused by the medial glutes and tensor fascia contracting so hard that they pulled the bone off the pelvis-- when I fell I actually fell directly on the iliac crest and felt a pop with quite a bit of pain!! In fact, it was very painful. I have been back on the ice for a couple of weeks now (jumping and doing flying camels), however, it is still sore ...let me know if you have any questions.

[blackmanskating]

Thanks so much for all of the input. I have tried the RICE thing already and it seems like it's helping. I also took 600mg of IB so I don't feel a thing right now. Thank goodness there isn't any swelling.

Do you have full range of motion in the hip?? Did you actually fall on the joint (ball and socket area) or on the iliac crest?? The reason I ask, is that at the beginning of March I had a bad fall -- normally when I fall(even a bad one) I spring up and just continue -- after this fall, I did immediately get up, however, had to glide off the ice and once on land could hardly put any pressure on my right leg. As my lesson was in 30 minutes, I tried to stretch it out, however, when I attempted to get back on the ice and just do cross overs I couldn't put any weight on the right side when crossing over, in fact, couldn't cross the leg over at all. That evening it was so sore and I had no abduction. Cut a long story short, one week later I finally went to A & E for an x-ray and it showed I had chipped the iliac crest. The actual dx was an avulsion fracture of the iliac crest caused by the medial glutes and tensor fascia contracting so hard that they pulled the bone off the pelvis-- when I fell I actually fell directly on the iliac crest and felt a pop with quite a bit of pain!! In fact, it was very painful. I have been back on the ice for a couple of weeks now (jumping and doing flying camels), however, it is still sore ...let me know if you have any questions.

Holy Moly!!!! That sounds crazy!!! I hope that isn't the case with me. It was a sharp pain initially and it did take me a while to get up. After the hot bath it was a dulling pain that only reoccured as I put weight on it. God, I hope I didn't crack or chip anything! It feels like I can sleep through the night with no problems now. I just had to sit down a lot at work because I want to rest it. I'll see how it is tomorrow and that will determine how long I stay off the ice, if I need to stay off at all. It's weird because I normally keep my weight on my heel while doing a spiral. But as my coach was encouraging me to lift up higher, I temporarily lost my edge and I rocked forward on the blade. Fortunately it wasn't a face plant but man it hurt to hit my hip like that. I just bought hip gel pads from my skate shop and I'll start wearing them under compression shorts. Most of my falls come from my jumps and I normally land on my God given padding with no problem. Spirals are something that I don't do often and once I pass this moves test, I hope to never do them again. Thanks to everyone who responded, I feel better about this minor setback already.

BlackManSkating

[doubletoe]

Spirals are something that I don't do often and once I pass this moves test, I hope to never do them again. Thanks to everyone who responded, I feel better about this minor setback already.

BlackManSkating

Ooh. . . Let me guess. . . Silver MIF? ;) I think many men hate that test for the very same reason!

[blackmanskating]

Ooh. . . Let me guess. . . Silver MIF? ;) I think many men hate that test for the very same reason!

You better believe it!!! :) I just want it to be over so I can move on with the rest of my skating. I've already accepted that I will not have a spiral like Sasha Cohen. Call me crazy but I think men should be exempt from doing spiral extensions on moves tests. I guess they serve some purpose other than extension. Maybe edge control, but I'm pretty sure they could create another exercise for that. I can do a camel spin. That should be good enough. :lol:

[KevinVeit]

As another adult male skater, I have a different take on spirals. I decided early on that I was going to test both the standard and adult tracks, so I've been working on spirals from the beginning. Doing the stretching necessary to get a good spiral has helped the rest of my skating. Trying to maintain a good spiral position is a good workout for your lower back and glute muscles. I just passed the Preliminary MIF, which has the FO and FI Edge Spirals, so when I get to the Silver Moves (I also just passed Adult Bronze), the straight-line spirals will be a piece of cake, as I had to do them a long time ago on my Pre-Preliminary test.

Once I had the flexibility, I found that spirals were the most consistent element to put into a program. I find them rather easy, and am somewhat surprised at the crowd reaction to what I think is a simple element. I guess they don't expect a guy to be able to do a spiral. I still need to work on keeping the skating leg straight, though, especially when doing them on an edge.

Here's a forward outside spiral sequence from my last competition:

http://www.metroedgefscphotos.com/IceZone2007SpringOpen/Event16/?page=4

[Thin-Ice]

You better believe it!!! :) I just want it to be over so I can move on with the rest of my skating. I've already accepted that I will not have a spiral like Sasha Cohen. Call me crazy but I think men should be exempt from doing spiral extensions on moves tests. I guess they serve some purpose other than extension. Maybe edge control, but I'm pretty sure they could create another exercise for that. I can do a camel spin. That should be good enough. :lol:

I was told by someone who was on the committee that when USFS was still deciding what should be on the Adult Moves, there was talk of putting the Alternating Spirals on either the Silver or Gold Test/ Apparently someone pointed out that might/would keep a lot of the men from moving up, so the idea was eliminated and they just put the straight-line spirals on the Silver Test.

Besides if those of us who are really inflexible women have to suffer through the spirals, so should the inflexible men. :lol:

[jazzpants]

You better believe it!!! :) I just want it to be over so I can move on with the rest of my skating. I've already accepted that I will not have a spiral like Sasha Cohen. Call me crazy but I think men should be exempt from doing spiral extensions on moves tests. I guess they serve some purpose other than extension. Maybe edge control, but I'm pretty sure they could create another exercise for that. I can do a camel spin. That should be good enough. :lol:Yeah, I hate spirals! I'm lucky to HAVE a hip level one myself... :roll:

BTW: If you can do a camel, how come you can't do a spiral??? :?? It's the same spiral position, only 10 times harder b/c you have to SPIN with that spiral!!!

[techskater]

Camels are much easier than spirals because you have centrifugal force keeping you in the right spot! :)

You'll see spirals again at the Novice MIF test and the Senior MIF test, so learn to do them right now!

[MusicSkateFan]

Well, I think a male skater performing a strong spiral is a BEAUTIFUL thing! I have worked hard both on and off the ice to get a very strong line. My spiral move on my Silver MIF test was my highest marked move.

I practice my spiral positions off ice and have found when I can hold them steady off Ice, they are easier to perform on the ice.

Focus on the strength it takes for a spiral and not the flexibility, IMHO. I feel this is why so many females have weak spirals.....not enough strength.. You must have strong leg, lower back, and core muscles to perform a strong spiral.

Everything has a reason.....every move we do on the ice is a piece of the puzzle. The tests are designed to develop all aspects of skating. Strong line is very important. Good luck

[FrankR]

Well, I think a male skater performing a strong spiral is a BEAUTIFUL thing! I have worked hard both on and off the ice to get a very strong line. My spiral move on my Silver MIF test was my highest marked move.

I practice my spiral positions off ice and have found when I can hold them steady off Ice, they are easier to perform on the ice.

Focus on the strength it takes for a spiral and not the flexibility, IMHO. I feel this is why so many females have weak spirals.....not enough strength.. You must have strong leg, lower back, and core muscles to perform a strong spiral.

Everything has a reason.....every move we do on the ice is a piece of the puzzle. The tests are designed to develop all aspects of skating. Strong line is very important. Good luck

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Spirals are as important for the guys as they are for the ladies. As MSF has pointed out, it develops several important muscle groups that are utilized in every aspect of skating.

In addition, spirals can be a very valuable part of a program, particularly for the men, if you can do them well because it can stand out for the judges. This year I did a serpentine spiral sequence in my program with four lobes, inside and outside edges on both feet including a Y-spiral. When I competed at the New Year's Invitational in Ashburn a few months ago, I asked the judges for some feedback on my program. A couple of the judges stepped out of the judges' room to speak to me. At first they weren't sure who I was and where I skated in the event order. Once I had told them my name and that I had skated third, one of the judges said to me "Oh, you're the guy that did the spirals." The other judge then said "Yes, they were very nice." They went on to give me feedback about other aspects of my program as well. However, my point is, they didn't remember my name, they didn't remember where I skated in my event, but they DID remember that spiral sequence. lol :lol:

Don't worry about being Sasha-esque in your spirals. However, I do believe it's important for guys to maximize their extension as much as possible and present a nice, clean line when they skate. It makes a world of difference.

[NoVa Sk8r]

Well, I think a male skater performing a strong spiral is a BEAUTIFUL thing! I have worked hard both on and off the ice to get a very strong line. My spiral move on my Silver MIF test was my highest marked move.Amen! Were it not for the spiral move (and the 2.9s that came my way), I would never have passed those silver moves!!!!

[doubletoe]

Camels are much easier than spirals because you have centrifugal force keeping you in the right spot! :)


I was wondering about that, too. I would suggest doing them if for no other reason than to maintain enough flexibility to do camel spins without pulling a hamstring or glute. I pulled (or nearly pulled) one several times when I tried to do a camel spin without warming up first with spirals.

[jazzpants]

Camels are much easier than spirals because you have centrifugal force keeping you in the right spot! :) Yeah, I'll believe it when I *GET* a camel, I guess!!! :P (WAAAAAH!!! I want that CAMEL, darn it!!!) http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/traurig/a045.gif

(Actually, it does make sense for me for the sit spin, since I CAN do a pretty decent sit spin, but there's NO WAY IN HELL I can do a "shoot the duck"/teapot.)

And yes, I do like it when the men do spirals in their program. It's a beautiful thing to watch. (And yes, despite the comments that men are less flexible than women, the OPPOSITE is true here at my rink!!!)

Heck, I prefer watching MEN skate, but that's just me! LOL!!! :twisted: :P :lol:

[blackmanskating]

I was told by someone who was on the committee that when USFS was still deciding what should be on the Adult Moves, there was talk of putting the Alternating Spirals on either the Silver or Gold Test/ Apparently someone pointed out that might/would keep a lot of the men from moving up, so the idea was eliminated and they just put the straight-line spirals on the Silver Test.

Besides if those of us who are really inflexible women have to suffer through the spirals, so should the inflexible men. :lol:

This was the exercise I was doing. I was doing alternating Forward Backward Spirals on Outside and Inside edges when I took my nasty spill. I guess my legs were starting to get tired so my position wasn't as strong as when I first started the exercise. :giveup: Yeah I know you are all right about men doing spirals. It is definitely beneficial but in my definition of a perfect world, they wouldn't be. :lol: But trust me, I'll get over it.

As another adult male skater, I have a different take on spirals. I decided early on that I was going to test both the standard and adult tracks, so I've been working on spirals from the beginning. Doing the stretching necessary to get a good spiral has helped the rest of my skating. Trying to maintain a good spiral position is a good workout for your lower back and glute muscles. I just passed the Preliminary MIF, which has the FO and FI Edge Spirals, so when I get to the Silver Moves (I also just passed Adult Bronze), the straight-line spirals will be a piece of cake, as I had to do them a long time ago on my Pre-Preliminary test.

Once I had the flexibility, I found that spirals were the most consistent element to put into a program. I find them rather easy, and am somewhat surprised at the crowd reaction to what I think is a simple element. I guess they don't expect a guy to be able to do a spiral. I still need to work on keeping the skating leg straight, though, especially when doing them on an edge.

Here's a forward outside spiral sequence from my last competition:

http://www.metroedgefscphotos.com/IceZone2007SpringOpen/Event16/?page=4

That is awesome that you include spirals in your programs. I probably won't do it unless by some miracle I get flexible enough to get one higher than my hip with substantially good line and form. If it doesn't look good to me, then chances are I won't include it. I am my worst critic and I am using a standard set by the pros. It's probably better than I think it is. The reason I dislike them is because I don't believe I can do them well. But I am confident that will change over time.

Yeah, I hate spirals! I'm lucky to HAVE a hip level one myself... :roll:

BTW: If you can do a camel, how come you can't do a spiral??? :?? It's the same spiral position, only 10 times harder b/c you have to SPIN with that spiral!!!

Well when you go into a camel spin at full speed, the centrifugal force almost pulls your leg into position. It is far easier to maintain the line then when you are only using your muscles to hold the position. If you enter the spin correctly, you get a lot of power and it's almost harder to keep your leg below hip level. I hardly focus on my leg position when I go into the camel spin. I focus on balance and centering instead. The spiral position almost happens on its own.

BlackManSkating

[blackmanskating]

Yeah, I'll believe it when I *GET* a camel, I guess!!! :P (WAAAAAH!!! I want that CAMEL, darn it!!!) http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/traurig/a045.gif

(Actually, it does make sense for me for the sit spin, since I CAN do a pretty decent sit spin, but there's NO WAY IN HELL I can do a "shoot the duck"/teapot.)

And yes, I do like it when the men do spirals in their program. It's a beautiful thing to watch. (And yes, despite the comments that men are less flexible than women, the OPPOSITE is true here at my rink!!!)

Heck, I prefer watching MEN skate, but that's just me! LOL!!! :twisted: :P :lol:

Trust me Jazzpants, you'll get there. I found that a camel spin easier than a sit spin. For most people I've spoken to, they say the opposite. I'm still trying to get my back sit to be as fast and as centered as my forward sit. So chances are, I would probably be quite envious of your sit spin.

[blackmanskating]

Great news!!!! The R.I.C.E. thing helped me tremendously. I went out on the ice today and I was doing axels. I was nervous about the take off because of my left hip, but I had no problem taking off and transferring to my right side. It's slightly sore but it's fine. I don't see a bruise either. I think this one was just a close call. My coach was nervous about me being on the ice so quickly but after seeing me skate at full speed doing mohawks, 3-turns, and a few brackets on my left leg, he let me continue. Thanks again everybody!!!! You guys are the truth!!!! :bow:


BlackManSkating

[jazzpants]

Well when you go into a camel spin at full speed, the centrifugal force almost pulls your leg into position.I'm trying not to laugh about the comment, but I am laughing about it only b/c 1) I've been trying to get a good spiral position for AGES and 2) BOTH my coaches main annoyance about my camel spins is that I can't get the free leg INTO position. Even with the centripetal force going on.

Yes, my spiral positions are THAT bad!!! I doubt I will ever pass Silver Moves just b/c of THAT spiral alone! :frus: However, I still try to do my spirals at the wall and on the bar and stretch a lot... It's a little bit better now than before, which is giving me hope that someday I will have a passing spiral for Silver Moves.

Sounds to me like you need to do some off-ice spiral exercises, blackmanskating! Try do this: Do doing a set of spirals where you're lifting and HOLDING the free leg for 20 seconds, then switch leg. Aim for 3 sets to start... then more time on the 3 sets (like 30 seconds.) Then go up a set, keeping 30 seconds on all but the last set (do 20 seconds) and then go up on time to 30 seconds again. Repeat 'til you get to 5 sets.

Also, have your coach watch and adjust you on the spiral position so you can get in the correct position and hold that position so you remember what it's supposed to feel like. (Yes, it's gonna HURT!!!)

Glad to hear that the RICE is helping 'ya!!! :D

[Joan]

You better believe it!!! :) I just want it to be over so I can move on with the rest of my skating. I've already accepted that I will not have a spiral like Sasha Cohen. Call me crazy but I think men should be exempt from doing spiral extensions on moves tests. I guess they serve some purpose other than extension. Maybe edge control, but I'm pretty sure they could create another exercise for that. I can do a camel spin. That should be good enough. :lol:
Well, I guess this was said above, but here it is again anyhow.
Men need camel spins, so you'll need to get your leg to hip height for that. Might as well work on spirals, so you can have good extension on your camel!

[Isk8NYC]

I'm glad you're feeling better today. Keep up the anti-inflammatories through tomorrow - you'll feel worse before you get better.


We should really resurrect an old/start a new spiral thread, but while we're on a tangent, here's my advice on beginning forward spirals:

Push into a spiral on a bent skating knee with the free leg lifted behind the skating leg.
...If you go into with a straight knee, you're just asking to perform a trip-and-fall sequence.
Arch your back from your head to your free foot - it should be banana-like.
...You'll feel the tightening in your upper buttocks and back of your neck.
Keep your arms even and out to the side.
...Why? Because it helps you balance. Uneven arms twist your upper body and can start an untimely 3-turn.
Pick up your chin and L8O 8O K where you're going.
...I know it's scary, but keeping your head down makes you break at the waist and can trigger a trip.
Get your balance, then rise up by straightening the skating knee.
...Trust me on this one: bent knee lift, straighten the knee and lift more.
Keep your weight on/behind the ball of the blade.
...Doubletoe's "Lift Your Toes!" advice is dead-on correct.
POINT your free foot toe towards the ceiling; think of turning out your knee on that leg.
...Even if it's NOT higher than before, it will LOOK higher and impress more people. Good technique is its own reward.

The most important point is that the free leg should be BEHIND the skating leg. Many people open up their hip and put the free leg out to the side. That pulls your center of gravity away from the skating foot and makes you wobble like a Weeble. I(Unfortunately, most people DO fall down.) If you think about keeping it tucked behind you, you'll be able to hold the position better.

Not all of the success in spirals comes from flexibility; much has to do with strength. Try using light ankle weights (you might want to tape them in place for safety on ice.) when you stretch and practice. It helps strengthen those muscles faster.

[blackmanskating]

Well, I guess this was said above, but here it is again anyhow.
Men need camel spins, so you'll need to get your leg to hip height for that. Might as well work on spirals, so you can have good extension on your camel!

My camel spin is at hip height. However, my coach has always taught me that a spiral position is higher than hip height. Anything hip height or lower is simply an extension in his opinion. I am aiming for a true spiral position. I don't want a spiral position in my camel. That's my main problem, my back will be arched but my leg goes straight out an a 90 degree angle. I am trying to break through this 90 degree plateau. It isn't working. :frus: My "Spiral" and my Camel look exactly the same. I want there to be a difference.

BlackManSkating

[Isk8NYC]

Anything hip height or lower is simply an extension in his opinion. Well, he's got high expectations for you, BMS. Most of the teaching standards call for hip height or higher. I'd love a Sasha-spiral too, but it's not going to happen anytime soon, AFAIK. Patience is a virtue - spirals take time and practice. I love spirals and spiral sequences. I wish I could do a heel stretch - that sucker ain't happening either. LOL

Hang in there and don't get discouraged. I'm sure you'll ace the spiral, given time and practice.

[phoenix]

Yes, if it's truly hip level & solidly held there, that's a passing spiral. Never hurts to have it above if you can do that, to banish all doubt from the judges' minds, but you have to work w/ what you've got. A higher spiral takes a long to time to develope; if I'm remembering right, you haven't been skating all that long? So unless you were a gymnast or dancer in a former life, you may have months of work ahead of you to see a height change in the spiral. It CAN be done, but there are no instant fixes.

[sue123]

Well, he's got high expectations for you, BMS. Most of the teaching standards call for hip height or higher. I'd love a Sasha-spiral too, but it's not going to happen anytime soon, AFAIK. Patience is a virtue - spirals take time and practice. I love spirals and spiral sequences. I wish I could do a heel stretch - that sucker ain't happening either. LOL

Hang in there and don't get discouraged. I'm sure you'll ace the spiral, given time and practice.

By heel stretch, do you mean where your leg is out to the side and raised in the air, with your arm holding your foot up by the heel? I can do those really easily off the ice, but I haven't got the courage to try it on the ice. I can do them off ice but not balance very well, I like to have a wall ro something nearby just in case. So if I have a hard time iwth the balance off ice, balancing on ice is probably going to be more difficult.

[blackmanskating]

Yes, if it's truly hip level & solidly held there, that's a passing spiral. Never hurts to have it above if you can do that, to banish all doubt from the judges' minds, but you have to work w/ what you've got. A higher spiral takes a long to time to develope; if I'm remembering right, you haven't been skating all that long? So unless you were a gymnast or dancer in a former life, you may have months of work ahead of you to see a height change in the spiral. It CAN be done, but there are no instant fixes.

No, I haven't been skating all that long. I have many weaknesses when it comes to skating: spirals is one of them. But that stems from a bigger problem . . . lack of flexibility. I would like to be more fluid on the ice and I think flexibility will help in that respect. I was a dancer but I danced hip-hop so not much flexibility there. I'm hoping to turn that around. Yeah I know it will be a lot of work and I am willing to do what I have to.

Blackmanskating

[doubletoe]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record on the whole stretching/splits thing, I would like to encourage you by telling you that all it takes is 15 minutes of stretching every day right after you skate or do your off-ice exercise and in a few months you'll see a major difference. Learning the right stretches and doing this religiously for a year brought me from a very tight left hamstring that pulled as I entered a camel spin to actually doing the splits for the first time in my life at 42 (and with the left leg in front!).
The key is to stretch the calves before stretching the hamstrings, and to stretch both the hamstrings and hip flexors individually before doing a spiral or split stretch. Stretch correctly rather than "cheating" and hold each position for 30 seconds before pushing a little farther.
Having pulled my other (right) hamstring attempting a split on the floor on my *good* side, I now avoid the floor for splits and instead use either a ballet barre or a banister/railing since it keeps my hips squared properly. It's important to keep the hip and knee of the free leg facing down, even though the foot is turned out.
The stretch that really got me past my plateau was the "seated hamstring stretch" which my physical therapist taught me. Once I could get my chest flat to my thigh on this stretch, I found that my hamstring was flexible enough for me to do the splits.
http://www.dietsite.com/dt/exerciseplanner/StretchesMain.asp
I'm not sure why, but it just did the trick more than any of the other hamstring stretches I used to do. I think it's because it squares your hips and forces you not to "cheat". It's very hard to get over your hips and keep your back from being rounded, so I recommend either putting your back against a wall and pushing your lower back away from the wall, or grabbing and pulling on a table leg, doorway or other stable object near the foot of your outstretched leg. You can also loop a belt around your foot and pull yourself forward with it.

And NOW. . . If anyone has managed to go from having a stiff, board-straight BACK to getting enough backbend for a haircutter spin or catch foot with the entire foot higher than head level. . . please share your tips with me! :D

[lovepairs]

Blackman,

Glad to hear you're feeling better! Don't give up on those spirals. My pairs partner had really crappy "man" spirals, but he kept working on them, and is now working on them again for Novice Moves, and his spirals look really really good now!

[Isk8NYC]

By heel stretch, do you mean where your leg is out to the side and raised in the air, with your arm holding your foot up by the heel?Yep. It's also called a "Victory Spiral."

[blackmanskating]

Blackman,

Glad to hear you're feeling better! Don't give up on those spirals. My pairs partner had really crappy "man" spirals, but he kept working on them, and is now working on them again for Novice Moves, and his spirals look really really good now!

Thanks LP!!! I'll keep at it.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record on the whole stretching/splits thing, I would like to encourage you by telling you that all it takes is 15 minutes of stretching every day right after you skate or do your off-ice exercise and in a few months you'll see a major difference. Learning the right stretches and doing this religiously for a year brought me from a very tight left hamstring that pulled as I entered a camel spin to actually doing the splits for the first time in my life at 42 (and with the left leg in front!).
The key is to stretch the calves before stretching the hamstrings, and to stretch both the hamstrings and hip flexors individually before doing a spiral or split stretch. Stretch correctly rather than "cheating" and hold each position for 30 seconds before pushing a little farther.
Having pulled my other (right) hamstring attempting a split on the floor on my *good* side, I now avoid the floor for splits and instead use either a ballet barre or a banister/railing since it keeps my hips squared properly. It's important to keep the hip and knee of the free leg facing down, even though the foot is turned out.
The stretch that really got me past my plateau was the "seated hamstring stretch" which my physical therapist taught me. Once I could get my chest flat to my thigh on this stretch, I found that my hamstring was flexible enough for me to do the splits.
http://www.dietsite.com/dt/exerciseplanner/StretchesMain.asp
I'm not sure why, but it just did the trick more than any of the other hamstring stretches I used to do. I think it's because it squares your hips and forces you not to "cheat". It's very hard to get over your hips and keep your back from being rounded, so I recommend either putting your back against a wall and pushing your lower back away from the wall, or grabbing and pulling on a table leg, doorway or other stable object near the foot of your outstretched leg. You can also loop a belt around your foot and pull yourself forward with it.


Thanks DoubleToe!!! I'll aim for 15 minutes every day. On the weekends when I don't skate, I'll stretch while watching T.V. or something. I'll try this for a month and then post my progress if any.

BlackManSkating

[SynchroSk8r114]

One of the things I have my skaters work on off-ice is sprials (flexibility, turn out of free leg/hip/toe, extension, etc.) One of the things I have them do is stand in front of a mirror holding on to a chair, table, whatever, or just try to balance without assistance. I tell them to slowly turn out their leg/hip/toe and go into a sprial position, which they must hold. This helps a lot with position and with flexibility and turn out. I've also had them do the same exercise with ankle weights on, which helps build the muscles needed for a higher sprial and good position. I've definitely seen an improvement in their spirals thanks to these exercises.

Splits (on and off-ice) also help, if you're up for tackling that. For on-ice sprials, use the boards to help you get up...it'll come with time! ;)

Working on sprials now, even if you don't ever want to do them again or think that you will, will help you immensly in the future. You've got 'em in Preliminary MIF, Novice MIF, and Senior MIF - so like tech skater said, "Learn them right now." Trust me, judges are not going to be so forgiving for toward the "average" (or less than average) spiral on higher levels! :twisted:

Oh, and for those who think that it's odd for a coach to want higher than hip level spirals, it's not asking too much. Even at Preliminary, they're picking on my skaters' slightly higher than hip level spirals. The USFS rulebook states that a spiral must be held "...with an extended free leg at the hip level or higher". And yes, I agree that anything lower is just an extension, maybe a high one, but still an extension. Besides, it's always good to push yourself not to have a borderline spiral. Judges find enough to pick on - don't let an average spiral get in the way of passing a test when a few simple stretches and exercises can help you out tremendously!

Good luck & happy spiraling!:D

[blackmanskating]

One of the things I have my skaters work on off-ice is sprials (flexibility, turn out of free leg/hip/toe, extension, etc.) One of the things I have them do is stand in front of a mirror holding on to a chair, table, whatever, or just try to balance without assistance. I tell them to slowly turn out their leg/hip/toe and go into a sprial position, which they must hold. This helps a lot with position and with flexibility and turn out. I've also had them do the same exercise with ankle weights on, which helps build the muscles needed for a higher sprial and good position. I've definitely seen an improvement in their spirals thanks to these exercises.

Splits (on and off-ice) also help, if you're up for tackling that. For on-ice sprials, use the boards to help you get up...it'll come with time! ;)

Working on sprials now, even if you don't ever want to do them again or think that you will, will help you immensly in the future. You've got 'em in Preliminary MIF, Novice MIF, and Senior MIF - so like tech skater said, "Learn them right now." Trust me, judges are not going to be so forgiving for toward the "average" (or less than average) spiral on higher levels! :twisted:

Oh, and for those who think that it's odd for a coach to want higher than hip level spirals, it's not asking too much. Even at Preliminary, they're picking on my skaters' slightly higher than hip level spirals. The USFS rulebook states that a spiral must be held "...with an extended free leg at the hip level or higher". And yes, I agree that anything lower is just an extension, maybe a high one, but still an extension. Besides, it's always good to push yourself not to have a borderline spiral. Judges find enough to pick on - don't let an average spiral get in the way of passing a test when a few simple stretches and exercises can help you out tremendously!

Good luck & happy spiraling!:D

I'll spiral, but I refuse to be happy about it. :halo:

[doubletoe]

Thanks DoubleToe!!! I'll aim for 15 minutes every day. On the weekends when I don't skate, I'll stretch while watching T.V. or something. I'll try this for a month and then post my progress if any.

BlackManSkating

Cool! If you're going to stretch at home on your non-skating days, it will be easier right after a hot bath or shower. :)

[Sessy]

Trust me Jazzpants, you'll get there. I found that a camel spin easier than a sit spin. For most people I've spoken to, they say the opposite. I'm still trying to get my back sit to be as fast and as centered as my forward sit. So chances are, I would probably be quite envious of your sit spin.

Same for me. Sit spins are EVIL!

[Isk8NYC]

I'll spiral, but I refuse to be happy about it. :halo: :lol: :lol: :lol: Love the sentiment!

[jazzpants]

I'll spiral, but I refuse to be happy about it. :halo:LOL!!! I'll have to borrow that line the next time my coaches make me do spirals!!! :halo: :lol:

[blackmanskating]

Same for me. Sit spins are EVIL!

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I finally have my quad parallel to the ice when I do a sit spin. Now I would like to get it lower. I guess I need to improve ankle flexibility so that I can shift my weight further forward without catching my toepicks. I end up breakdancing instead of doing a sitspin. LOL

BlackManSkating

[Isk8NYC]

Better than facedancing! *wanders away lalalala...*

I *LOVE* sit spins. Make sure you keep that free foot turned out/parallel to the ice. Otherwise, you'll spike the ice.
The test standards call for the sit spin to have the hip lower than the skating knee.
Personally, I prefer the "skirt on the ice" measurement.

[Sessy]

I, too, came to the conclusion I was lacking flexibility. And I also end up on the toepick... *sigh* Good to know I'm not the only one. All the kids at the rink get the sit in no time it seems. :lol:

[blackmanskating]

Better than facedancing! *wanders away lalalala...*

I *LOVE* sit spins. Make sure you keep that free foot turned out/parallel to the ice. Otherwise, you'll spike the ice.
The test standards call for the sit spin to have the hip lower than the skating knee.
Personally, I prefer the "skirt on the ice" measurement.

Amen to that!!! Anything is better than a face plant. I tried a back cannonball position a la Lucinda Ruh/Johnny Weir and it worked out pretty well. I was surprised that I actually got lower in my skating knee doing that position than in an ordinary back sit position. I think it's because my free foot sometimes hits the ice as I go lower. I hate when I do that. But my coach wasn't expecting it. It was something I was practicing on my own. Today was the first time I did it in front of him. I got at least 4 good revs before my extension. He liked it. I hope to record myself skating and post it up on you tube. Maybe then, I could get some good feedback.

BlackManSkating

[doubletoe]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I finally have my quad parallel to the ice when I do a sit spin. Now I would like to get it lower. I guess I need to improve ankle flexibility so that I can shift my weight further forward without catching my toepicks. I end up breakdancing instead of doing a sitspin. LOL

BlackManSkating

Those calf stretches you're doing every day (you know, the ones you do before you stretch your hamstrings?) will help with that! :lol: Also, I think a lot of it is a matter of just pushing your free leg forward a little more to get your weight in the right place. The most valuable tip my coach ever gave me was on how to get a parallel sitspin position. He said you'll know your thigh is parallel to the ice if you can feel the calf of the skating leg pressing against the inside of the thigh of the free leg. What that means is that your free leg must be lower than the knee of your skating leg and also pushed forward. I had had an overly high sitspin for 5 years and this trick fixed it in 5 minutes; it was amazing!

[herniated]

Blackmanskating, I know I'm a little late but I'm glad you are feeling better. I've fallen like that one too many times. I did it this year. I really like doing spirals :halo: (sorry) so I was in a full spiral position a..n..d.. didn't notice the frozen ice chunks that the zamboni guy left behind.:twisted: I tripped over the ice chunck and right on my left hip and rib cage! 8O It felt like my ribs compressed. I felt like I fell off a truck or was in a bad fender bender for a few days. My hip was badly bruised though. Anyway, all turned out well and I didn't crack anything.

[blackmanskating]

Those calf stretches you're doing every day (you know, the ones you do before you stretch your hamstrings?) will help with that! :lol: Also, I think a lot of it is a matter of just pushing your free leg forward a little more to get your weight in the right place. The most valuable tip my coach ever gave me was on how to get a parallel sitspin position. He said you'll know your thigh is parallel to the ice if you can feel the calf of the skating leg pressing against the inside of the thigh of the free leg. What that means is that your free leg must be lower than the knee of your skating leg and also pushed forward. I had had an overly high sitspin for 5 years and this trick fixed it in 5 minutes; it was amazing!

I'll be sure to keep that in mind tomorrow when I try again. I am learning and I am confident that I will be able to do a low sit spin soon.

[blackmanskating]

Blackmanskating, I know I'm a little late but I'm glad you are feeling better. I've fallen like that one too many times. I did it this year. I really like doing spirals :halo: (sorry) so I was in a full spiral position a..n..d.. didn't notice the frozen ice chunks that the zamboni guy left behind.:twisted: I tripped over the ice chunck and right on my left hip and rib cage! 8O It felt like my ribs compressed. I felt like I fell off a truck or was in a bad fender bender for a few days. My hip was badly bruised though. Anyway, all turned out well and I didn't crack anything.

That's how it was for me. I thought I was going to die if I put any weight on it. The 600 mg of IB and the R.I.C.E. protocol helped out tremendously. I got up the next day with a light colored bruise but I was landing a clean axel. I had to do spirals again today and I was very apprehensive. I was very cautious throughout the entire exercise but the lifting my toes in my boot helped me gain confidence to do it with full speed.

[techskater]

Sit spin - buttocks must be lower than knee per the newest ISU communication, so really work on that quad strength!!

[kander]

I had a nasty fall during a spiral sequence that my coach made me do. :twisted: Let me be the first to say that I hate spirals with every fiber in my being and I see no point for a guy to do them. Well I tripped off my toepick while going forward in a futile attempt to lift my leg higher. :bow: I slammed down on my left hip while trying to protect my face. I am in all sorts of pain now and I'm not sure how serious it is. It hurts to put any weight on my left side so now I am limping when I walk. I soaked in hot water for an hour and it feels a little better but my coach is very concerned. I don't want to waste money going to see a doctor if it isn't necessary so I'm hoping that someone on this forum can help determine if I should go to the doc or not. The good news is that even though I fell, I pushed through the pain and finished the exercise. :roll: Can anyone offer any advice :?: Thanks in advance.


BlackManSkating

My advice is to not take medical advice from an internet skating forum :) Having said that, I would wait several days to see if it gets better. It will probably be sore for a long time.

Kevin

[blackmanskating]

My advice is to not take medical advice from an internet skating forum :) Having said that, I would wait several days to see if it gets better. It will probably be sore for a long time.

Kevin

I wasn't trying to get medical advice per se. This was my first time getting "injured" and I wanted to hear about similar injuries sustained by other people to make a decision on how serious to take this fall. I don't like hospitals, and I have to practically be on my deathbed before I can convince myself to go to one. Since my coach has sustained a back injury when he was still competing, he is very protective of his students and he'll tell me to go to the doc for everything. (God Bless Him) But I'm fine. For Real For Real!!! I was landing my double sal and double loop today. Slight bruise but no pain.

[Sessy]

You're landing double sal and double loop and this is your first time getting injured? Sheesh.

I didn't have my toeloop when I first got a month of physio therapy for a skating injury! And it's not exactly gotten better since. It seems I do something serious every couple of months LOL.

[blackmanskating]

I thank God and my overprotective coach for the minimal injuries I've sustained. My coach sometimes acts like an overprotective dad when it comes to injuries. ;) I wouldn't trade him for the world. I've only been skating for about 17 months now, so I'm sure as time progresses, I'll get all the physical skating souveniers. LOL I can see my medical bill going sky high.
:giveup:

BlackManSkating

[jazzpants]

I thank God and my overprotective coach for the minimal injuries I've sustained. My coach sometimes acts like an overprotective dad when it comes to injuries. ;) I wouldn't trade him for the world. I've only been skating for about 17 months now, so I'm sure as time progresses, I'll get all the physical skating souveniers. LOL I can see my medical bill going sky high.Oh, God! You're lucky! My coaches pushes for me to FALL a lot! They want me to not be scared of trying new things. Of course, some of the "fear" issues isn't really fear issues. Most of it is being "tired" or just plain not being in the right position for things. But I think eventually they want me to be "fearless."