Can Blue Collar Workers Afford To Have Their Kids In This Sport?

[sk8parent]

After Reading The Responses Of "How Much Is To Much", I Wonder If It Is Possible For Average Working People To Have Thier Kids In This Sport And Be Able To Excel In It. Does Anyone Know Of Any Figure Skaters Out There That Have Made It Far On A Less Then Modest Income? Or Are Our Kids Entering In On A Rich Mans Sport?

[Isk8NYC]

In the US, figure skating is an expensive sport. More if your skater wants to test and even more if s/he wants to compete.
You can save money in many ways, but you can't get out of paying for good skates, lessons, and ice time.

[BigBaaadBob]

Depending on what you would call successful, there have been a number of examples of successful skaters (say, national medalists) from "blue collar" backgrounds, even in recent history. In those cases it takes a lot of sacrifice, support, and donations. In many cases there is a astonishing level of debt too.

Whether this is a sensible path to take is a topic of fierce debate, even inside those families. I'm familiar with skating-induced divorce, for example. In other cases it seems to draw the family closer together.

Skating families like to joke that they get the learning experience of hovering on the edge of bankruptcy for ten years, and like all jest there is an element of truth in that.

From my unscientific experience, there is a far lower level of wealthy families involved in skating than the general public believes. Like most news, only the outliers are publicized: the ultra-rich and the ultra-poor. In the US at least, I think the core of skating comes largely from the middle class. But skating is hardly an expenditure that is easy for a middle-class family to afford.

Unlike many other elite athletics, skaters don't have the opportunity to earn, say, a scholarship from a division one school. Or, for the most part, sponsorships.

As a result, funding your athletes skating is a real conundrum for many families.

[jskater49]

I live on a pretty modest income, although it's all relative. It's a struggle for both of us to skate. She wears second hand practice clothes (and sometmes competition dresses) - most of her skates were second hand and I havent bought any new furniture for 25 years.

j

[Logan3]

recreational, once a week Oct to May : Yes for sure

testing : just about.

competitive to higher levels: I doubt it! Of course an exception might exist but 99% I say NO.

I think that the sport progressed so much technically and it picks in such an early age that you have to put tons of money early on. And it is not just ice time: smart choreography, pillates, ballet, personal yoga teacher 8O and the list keeps going on. Never the less it seems that plenty of people afford to do it. I think that can be said for a lot of other sports too. Skiing comes to mind and gymnastics. To be an elite athlete today comes with a big price tag. The cheapest sport right now might be soccer because it is still building up in USA so it's not gone totaly elite yet. In Europe countries have "federal organizations" that substidize clubs expences and most athletes get some kind of help. I am always finding this fact fascinating!!!!! Immagine !

[Logan3]

sorry for double post.

[stardust skies]

Can someone with little spare income afford to have their kids learn and enjoy the sport of figure skating? Yes, absolutely. And I would suggest ISI for this, for a number of reasons. a) it's cheaper to join, test, and compete. b) the tests are less demanding so there is less need for lesson and ice time, as well as the coaches who coach ISI only usually have better rates, and since you can only compete the elements on the test and not higher elements, you have a better chance to progress without needing as much and c) it is geared towards recreational skating, so you won't be the only one with limited funds.

Can someone produce an athlete that has the potential to go to Nationals, or in general have a chance at being competitive in the Novice-Senior divisions in the more popular regions? No. Unless you find a sponsor (which you'll have a hard time doing without acquiring some good results in the levels which you most likely won't be able to get without money to begin with), or unless you have some extraordinary circumstances such as a coach that doesn't charge you or something of the sort...it will be, I would say, absolutely impossible. Skating at the Novice-Senior levels to be competitive costs upwards of 50k per year. There's no way to do it unless you have heaps of help, and heaps of money to spend on the sport. Because the reality of the fact is...that many, many people have that much money to spend. So, considering how much of this sport comes through repetition and muscle memory, even a kid with less talent will go farther with more lesson and ice time than someone with more talent but less of each. And let's not forget that good boots and blades cost about 1,500k a year, and that's just enough for the skater not to get injured.

Yes, skating at the elite levels IS a "rich man's sport", and while being PC and saying there are other ways to enjoy the sport is something many will try to do, I personally think it's better to be honest upfront so that you know what you can and cannot do right from the get go, lest you waste money trying and find out in Intermediate that your kid has to quit because you just can't afford it anymore.

Good luck, and I would suggest that you look into ISI. Their program is very rewarding for everybody, and it definitely doesn't require the same kind of money as the USFS does.

[Sessy]

There's always winning the lottery, or the early demise of a grandma/grandpa... :twisted:

[BuggieMom]

Let's not forget about the cost of lost childhood, also. Right now, I am trying to find the balance between giving her all she needs to succeed, and still allowing her to have a childhood that is not full of lessons and training. That, on top of finding creative ways to finance it all!

[BigBaaadBob]

Let's not forget about the cost of lost childhood, also.

Most of the skaters I know don't seem to view it that way. They view their childhood as being enhanced not deprived. They feel they got to do things that other kids never got to do, made friends all around the world, etc. They often make comments about typical childhood being filled with hours of TV or video games or other less than fulfilling activities. They frequently speak of the joy of dedicating one's early life to a challenging and fulfilling task.

Whether your agree with this view or not (remember, I'm reporting what elite skaters have told me), I note also that skaters are disproportionately successful in later life careers. I'm told, for example, that colleges understand that ex-skaters frequently make outstanding students and thus view skating as a attractive feature in admissions.

Certainly you will hear anecdotes about skating having "ruined" someone's life. You will also hear the anecdotes about overdriven parents forcing reluctant skaters to abandon their life to skating. But from my knowledge these anecdotes do not represent the typical experience of elite skaters.

[Goldjudge3]

This sport put my parents in debt. I know after I made it past Regionals, my parents took a second mortgage out on their home in order for me to continue skating. My mom also worked a graveyard shift at the local grocery store several days a week in addition to her regular job. THey would always say to me.."anytime you decide you dont want to do this anymore, let us know". When I was old enough, I worked at the rink to help defray the cost of ice time in addition to my coach giving me discounted prices for lessons. It was rough. Now that Im older and obviously didnt make it to the olympics, I have asked my parents if they had any regrets about my skating in the past and the financial turmoil it created. They say absolutly not. They wanted to give me every oppertunity I could have to accomplish my goals. I on the other hand knew that my college fund was liquidated to pay for my skating. I am still paying off my student loans for school. All of which I am grateful for my parents sacrifices. On the same note, not to be harsh, but I as a coach dont make promises to my students parents that are unrealistic. Everyone thinks their kid has olympic potential but the reality is that only one in a big huge number will make it to that level. I make this clear to the parents because someone didnt do that for me. I treat them all as champions because they are, but the 4 hours a week recreational skater understands that there is a better chance of being struck by lightning. The parents are appreciative with my honesty.

[peanutskates]

In ref. to Goldjudge's post, in the UK, the NISA site has a "Talent ID table" which shows the criteria for identifying talent in kids and therefore how likely it is that they'll go to the Olympics. A US equivalent might be helpful for that.

[dbny]

In ref. to Goldjudge's post, in the UK, the NISA site has a "Talent ID table" which shows the criteria for identifying talent in kids and therefore how likely it is that they'll go to the Olympics.

I would love to see that. If it's not available to outsiders, can you post some of it, or PM it to me?

Goldjudge3 - Your parents are priceless! My parents did something similar for me, in roller dance, which was truly a sport without a future, even for the most talented (and I was far from that). It was my passion, and they felt it kept me fit and focussed, so they did without more than I ever imagined for me to continue skating until I left for college (when I gave it up completely, on my own).

[phoenix]

In ref. to Goldjudge's post, in the UK, the NISA site has a "Talent ID table" which shows the criteria for identifying talent in kids and therefore how likely it is that they'll go to the Olympics. A US equivalent might be helpful for that.

I would also dearly love to see that....any chance of pm-ing or emailing?

[dbny]

I googled and found the NISA site and what looked like a talent ID table, but it wasn't criteria for determining talent, but instead showed which tests/comps had to be passed/won in order to progress. It's possible I didn't find the right table (which is an Excel spreadsheet, although it downloads without a file extension).

[jp1andOnly]

It's possible..my parents did it. in fact, my dad was working and my mom was a stay at home mom. But soon my mom went to work and basically her entire income went to paying for skating. My parents didn't have a morgage, so I'm sure that helped.

We never took vacations, we never had a new car, we didn't get designer clothes. I know my parents went into debt. Luckily, over the years my dad worked himself up in the company and was able to get to management.

they gave up a lot but they were so proud of my brother (I quit when I was 13 to pursue music) and what he accomplished in the sport. I got music, and yes, they were rpoud of me when i graduated with my music degree.

[stardust skies]

JP- I see you are replying from Canada, though. Both the financial situations and level of competition are far different out there. I don't know if your brother won titles in the USA or Canada, but it's a completely different ballgame. At that, it would help to know which country the OP is posting from to have more accurate answers.

[jp1andOnly]

My brother was at the senior level. His costs, living at home, were in excess of 30,000. Would have been more if he lived away. As he got higher up, he could at least drive himself to the arena..but because his training centre was almost a 2 hour drive each way, he really couldn't have a job, except a bit on weekends. Basically, my parents paid for the car, gas, as well as expenses any teen/young adult would have.

And yes, my parents also paid for my education...another 10-15 thousand a year.



JP- I see you are replying from Canada, though. Both the financial situations and level of competition are far different out there. I don't know if your brother won titles in the USA or Canada, but it's a completely different ballgame. At that, it would help to know which country the OP is posting from to have more accurate answers.

[3skatekiddos]

JP- I see you are replying from Canada, though. Both the financial situations and level of competition are far different out there. I don't know if your brother won titles in the USA or Canada, but it's a completely different ballgame. At that, it would help to know which country the OP is posting from to have more accurate answers.

Are the costs higher or lower in the States ? I am in Canada and am assuming by your reply that they are higher. Why ? ( Just being nosy here )

[Logan3]

In response to the talent ID table:

It takes a large pool of athletes to generate a few champions. Nobody knows in the beginning who will truly make it. I do not know the exact statistics but let say for the one Olympic champion 20 (or 100) kids need to be in the system of advanced training. So even if your kid is RIGHTFULLY identified as talented and full of potential still the chances of making it are slim. Usually sports success is a pyramid, large base, very small apex. So everybody needs to be prepared for the scenario of failure not only money wise but emotionally too. And I believe that’s a killer for the kid that is so close, almost there but for some reason things don’t work. Investment wise is bad idea to train an elite athlete, the odds are against you. Having said that I also believe that there are numerous advantages one can get by being an elite athlete that are not measured with placements and gold medals. I think the degree of sacrifice should balance with the benefits and I do not talk about money only. The idea that you do the best for you kid because you sacrifice is equally bad to the one that you can get something but not sacrificing at all!! It is a very difficult act of balancing and my respect to all families that are going trough.

I better not respond to why skating is more expensive in USA :twisted: …..

[Skittl1321]

Most of the skaters I know don't seem to view it that way. They view their childhood as being enhanced not deprived.


I have a friend who is a cousin to a current world level competitor. She seems to be a well rounded young lady who is doing really well in the skating world. I imagine that if she was asked, she would answer exactly this. But my friend has also told me she remembers vacations where all the cousins would go somewhere to play, and the skater would be crying- because she had to go to the rink. She also told me there were many times where the skate said she didn't LIKE skating- though I imagine those might have been childhood fits (we all say things like that as kids) and her aunt was really pushy about making sure the skater succeeded.

For those who do end up succeeding- yep, it was probably worth it.

But is elite level training for kids worth it for those who don't end up doing well? My sister trained in gymnastics just below the elite level. She says she wouldn't trade it for anything, but that she always wonders what it would have been like to get to do a little of everything. Oddly enough, I- who did a little of everything- wonder what it would have been like to be great at one thing.


As for blue collar- I really don't know. I guess I work a white collar job, but I can't see being able to balance a competitive skaters (even at a mid level) expenses with household expenses on my salary. Gosh- I teach LTS so I can afford ice time as is!

[3skatekiddos]

I better not respond to why skating is more expensive in USA :twisted: …..

Why ? I am just wondering if it is cost ? Quality of coaching ? What ?

[Ellyn]

I think that the sport progressed so much technically and it picks in such an early age that you have to put tons of money early on.

I think this has been true, to some extent, at least since the 1930s. First it was all the hours and hours of ice time per day perfecting school figures that were necessary to succeed competitively. Later it was off-ice training, fancier costumes, and specialized choreography as well as training triple jumps and now level 4 spins etc. for freestyle success. Probably the 1980s had the highest demands on both ends.

And of course one of the biggest expenses is traveling to competitions.

If you happen to live near a rink where you don't have to spend hours a day commuting just for few hours of ice time, in an area where you can get experience competing at several club competitions a year that don't require plane trips or hotel stays, and at a club where if you do have to travel far to qualifying competitions once or twice a year there will be other skaters to share the coach's expenses with, it will cost a lot less for the same level of success than if you live somewhere more isolated and have to spend more time and money on actually getting to the rinks than you spend on the ice.

Also, I wouldn't think in terms of "blue collar" or "white collar" because at middle income levels (enough to spend money for serious recreational sports, not enough to fund an elite competitive skating career), some blue collar workers earn more than some white collar workers.

[skatersmama]

Why ? I am just wondering if it is cost ? Quality of coaching ? What ?

I have noticed that the cost of coaching in the US is far more expensive than in Canada. Here, skate canada sends out guidelines that suggest what a coach should charge according to thier qualifications (Level 1-4). For example, my daughter's coach is level 1. She charges 6.00 for a 15 minute lesson. Another of her coaches is level 3, she charges 8.50 for lower level skaters, 9.00 for higher level. If you look at the Mariposa school of skating website, Doug Leigh (who is among the top coaches in Canada) charges $22.00 for a 15 minute lesson.

Check out some skating club websites from clubs that are in the states and you will see that their coaching costs are generally much higher.

Also, in general, Ice Costs here in Canada are more reasonable and a majority of clubs rent ice on behalf of their skaters. In the area where I live, there is no coaching/figure skating moves allowed on public ice time.

I also notice that a little more is spent by american parents on costuming, choreography, etc. for skaters that are younger.

In my region, kids that are in CanSkate do not get to do solo's. There are competitions, however, they all go out and do the same circuit.

[BigBaaadBob]

Everyone thinks their kid has olympic potential but the reality is that only one in a big huge number will make it to that level.

I glad that parents think their kids can achieve anything. I think that is a very positive motivator for kids.

Of course, though, on the other hand there are unrealistic expectations too. It's a problem when expectations strongly mismatch potential. It seems like most parents learn to better align the two as the skaters move up the ranks (or don't move up the ranks).

Getting to the Olympics is as rare as getting hit by lightning. It's tough even if you set your sights lower: in the US there can be 120 intermediate ladies at one regionals fighting for one of four to six slots to junior nationals. Those are long odds.

But I don't think unrealistic expectations are primarily responsible for keeping parents paying the big bills. Instead, for the most part, the skaters truly love to skate.

Us skating parents like to chuckle, as we sit in the stands at competitions, about the stereotype about the evil skating mom (or dad) who forces their unwilling child to skate. In truth, most of us are like: "Are you sure you really want to keep skating? If you stopped skating we could maybe get new carpet, or maybe even trade in the junkheap car with 200,000 miles on it and get something newer".

And maybe there is another factor. We your skater gets to a certain level, like say that of being a junior-level or senior-level national competitor, you really like to want him/her skate. It's really amazing to see a kid of yours (who otherwise slouches around the house, has a dirty room, and looks just like every other teenager) do something so beautiful that well. Where does it come from?

[Skate@Delaware]

I understand some parents get a second mortgage on their homes. Some kids are lucky (at higher levels) to get sponsors.

If you can get a college scholarship, that helps and some colleges let you skate for free; one of our girls recently got a place on a college team so she get some coaching as part of the team and a break on ice the ice bill. But, there is a price she has to pay-she can't gain weight and has to hang out with the other girls.

[sarahmom3]

I do happen think skating is a sport for the wealthy. Even though sacrifices can be made, like borrowing money, working extra jobs, not taking vacations could be an option for some, for others, those things already don't exist. For for the true working class just making ends meet is difficult and throwing skating on top of it wouldn't be possible for most.

My DD has been skating for about 4 years and is FS7 level. We spend about 6-7 thousand dollars a year. This will be our max we're willing to spend. We won't be putting our futures, the kids' college funds, at risk because of a sport, no matter how much she loves it. We have two other children to take care of also.

DD has been able to accomplish a lot on that budget, she works very hard and really enjoys what she has been doing. She'll never go to Nationals or the Olympics but that isn't our benchmark for success. HAving a daughter that has a positive feeling about herself through her accomplishments is worth the $$ we're spending. However, knowing what I know now, I would have probably steered her into something else. But it's too late now for us!

[cathrl]

But isn't it true that to be really, really good at any sport you have to spend $$$? It's just that, with skating, you have to start spending it relatively early on. I mean, if you're a swimmer and you want to make it right to the top, sooner or later you're going to need a private coach, expensive made-to-measure suits, out-of-the-water fitness training, to travel to competitions etc. etc. - are these going to be so very much cheaper than the equivalent for a skater? It's the coach's time and the travel which are the real expensive things, and they'll be fairly constant no matter what the sport once you get up to anything close to national level. But not early on, because swimmers can get pretty good training with a club and wearing standard swimwear, whereas skaters need decent skates and private lessons in order to compete even as tiny tots. I'm in two minds about this - it's hard for a child who really fancies skating if their parents can't afford for them to even try, but is it actually better than them getting to the point where they've spent years training only to be unable to afford to move to the next level up?

I'd say that in the UK the only exceptions to this are football and rugby (maybe cricket?) where the good kids get picked up early by the professional clubs who pay for the training. Everything else? If you need professional, one-to-one training, you pay for it, and it's very expensive.

[Isk8NYC]

Swimming is an interesting correlation to figure skating.

Their "Dry Land" training is very similar to our "Off Ice," without as many jumping components. They need more distance than height so their dives are pretty horizontal. The parent expectations are also similar with backbiting and bullying. :roll:

Here in the US, high schools and colleges have indoor pools and teams available during the school year. Still, the cream of the crop are the ones who train and race year-round.

I think the main difference is that swimming is an NCAA sanctioned sport, so there is RECRUITING involved for high school athletes. Hence, there is a lot of pressure to perform well in racing before entering high school. College coaches do keep track of the high school swimmers' performances, but have to manage the actual relationship carefully, due to the different NCAA Division rules. Once they reach Junior/Senior year, the coaches really press to bring the talented swimmers into their college's fold. Depending on the Division, they offer scholarships and training benefits that are strong incentives.

Figure skating is not NCAA-sanctioned and its application has been fought again and again because of Title IX's rules that require colleges to provide equivalent sports for both genders. As a result, women's sports' budgets have grown, big (revenue producing) sports like football and basketball remained the same, but less-popular men's sports like wrestling are getting cut. Very few colleges offer scholarships for figure skating, so skaters have to be good students in order to get any financial benefits. While colleges do offer figure skating "Club" programs, they don't have on-staff coaches. I think most pay for the Synchro coaches' time, but the ice time has to be paid by the team. Private lessons? Freestyles? Entry Fees? Clinics? You're on your own. Off-Ice? Not always "organized" for the skaters and the skaters have to be creative in getting access to college's facilities.

I'm pretty sure the University of Delaware has a good program, but again, not NCAA-sanctioned so it has very few "perks" unlike the swim teams.

Hopefully, this will change in the future.

[sceptique]

I googled and found the NISA site and what looked like a talent ID table, but it wasn't criteria for determining talent, but instead showed which tests/comps had to be passed/won in order to progress. It's possible I didn't find the right table (which is an Excel spreadsheet, although it downloads without a file extension).

It shows what elements/jumps kids should have by what age to be deemed "talented".

Also, in Russia they run a system where for a kid to stay in skating school s/he needs to achieve a certain grade by certain age or they'll get bumped into a "recreational" skating group:
Juvenile (born in 2001) - two different single jumps, 1 jump combo or sequence, 1 foot spin, figure of 8 forward & backward;
Junior III (born in 1999-2001) - 3 different single jumps, 1 jump combo/sequence, sit spin, backward & forward edge spirals on both feet, footwork sequence;
Junior II - Axel, 1 combo where 1 jump is a double, sit or camel spin (layback for girls)... etc.

[slusher]

As I was getting ready for the start of learn to skate next week, and looking for some fresh ideas for games, I came across this thread.

Our learn to skate registration is way down, and from talking to other coaches in other clubs they are suffering from the same problem. The kids are out there, although there's a bit of a demographic slump at the 6-8 year olds. What we've heard is that parents are taking a second look at the fee and their budgets are so tight that they can't afford it. There's been job losses in the region and parents are frightened for the economy. Most clubs have split the season into two parts, so instead of paying for 20 weeks at a time, they're paying for 10 but that didn't make much of a difference. It's like, we know it is expensive, our kids will take learn to skate for a year when they're older and we'll have the money then.

In our area a full season of learn to skate can be anywhere from $215 to $350. Even at $215, parents don't have the cash.

I am wondering if this is happening elsewhere, not just in Canada?

[jp1andOnly]

Actually enrollment is going up out here in BC (at least in the lower mainland..can't speak for the rest of BC). But the economy is doing well. Don't worry, enrollment will go back up eventually. Skating runs on a cyclical type of cycle. After the 2010 olympics, there will be an onslaught of skaters.

As I've been saying for years and years...small clubs need to amalgamate with larger ones in order to run a financially strong club. This rarely happens because everyone gets their knickers in a knot talking about it, but honestly, it often works out for the best and the club(s) survive along with the benefits of increased ice time and membership.

As I was getting ready for the start of learn to skate next week, and looking for some fresh ideas for games, I came across this thread.

Our learn to skate registration is way down, and from talking to other coaches in other clubs they are suffering from the same problem. The kids are out there, although there's a bit of a demographic slump at the 6-8 year olds. What we've heard is that parents are taking a second look at the fee and their budgets are so tight that they can't afford it. There's been job losses in the region and parents are frightened for the economy. Most clubs have split the season into two parts, so instead of paying for 20 weeks at a time, they're paying for 10 but that didn't make much of a difference. It's like, we know it is expensive, our kids will take learn to skate for a year when they're older and we'll have the money then.

In our area a full season of learn to skate can be anywhere from $215 to $350. Even at $215, parents don't have the cash.

I am wondering if this is happening elsewhere, not just in Canada?

[katz in boots]

Most clubs have split the season into two parts, so instead of paying for 20 weeks at a time, they're paying for 10 but that didn't make much of a difference... In our area a full season of learn to skate can be anywhere from $215 to $350. Even at $215, parents don't have the cash.

I am wondering if this is happening elsewhere, not just in Canada?

I live in Australia, in our city we have one tiny rink. It is an expensive sport here, and none of us are going to the Olympics. The full economic spectrum is represented at our rink (except rich), I guess most are working class to middle-class parents though. Our coaches charge by the lesson, at skate school or for private sessions. If they tried charging for a term at a time, not many could afford to come up with the money in one hit like that.

I think to make it to elite class in Australia (a country not noted for it's figure skaters - it is just not an Australian sport, not like cricket or Aussie Rules Football. ) you would have to be very well off, cos travelling to international competitions would cost a fortune.

[Virtualsk8r]

The term, BLUE COLLAR worker, caught my eye....Not all so-called blue collar workers are poor folk that can barely scrape by. Ever called a plumber or an electrician lately? They are classified as blue collar workers - the trades - and can make more money than the average white collar worker. The guys that pick up my trash make more money than I do. City workers on union contracts with seniority and secure jobs (there will always be trash)...they make a darn good living.

So we can't classify income levels anymore based on the old 'collar' color..white used to be office or clerical jobs and blue - the manual or trades jobs where they wore denium or dark blue shirts to hide the dirt.

That said - I really believe that if a parent wants their child to skate - they will. My best parents are the ones who work hard for their money, and respect the job I do with their children by trusting me to give them the instruction they need to succeed. The kids love to skate and work hard - whether they have talent or not -- and I never begrudge giving them any extra time or doing things gratius.

However, it can be difficult to keep a skater at the national level without spending a lot of money, granted. But then, let's get realistic. How many skaters in LTS actually stick with the ups and downs of the sport long enough to make it into the senior ranks? I'd say one in a hundred or more.

Take a look at the numbers of skaters who leave the sport once the double axel is mandatory.....most are just not capable of achieving that defining jump no matter how much money the parents have. That's why at sectionals or regionals you will have hundreds of intermediate or pre-novice skaters -- and half a dozen senior women - even fewer senior men.

Is is just a financial issue? I don't think so. Talent, dedication, willingness to accept defeat until you succeed - are all attributes a child must have in order to even reach the Junior ranks. Sure being wealthy helps - take a look at the US senior team and see who have the millions and has done well. But then there are those who manage with sponsorships at that level as well.

The problem is drawing in the right kind of child with the attributes necessary to succeed into the LTS in the first place and transitioning them into the figure skating stream with competent coaches who don't charge an arm & a leg. It's almost like we need to audition skaters before they enrol ...which, of course, is not fair to the ones who just want to learn to skate!

Maybe the whole LTS system needs revamping -- again. But - we still need to get those bodies on to the ice and that has become the major problem as studies have shown once a skater enrols in a LTS program, they tend to return over and over. It's the undecided that are either too lazy to fit the lessons into their family schedule, or the times offered by the clubs that are not appropriate for the population they serve....not necessarily the actual cost of the lessons.

BTW Clubs in our area offer LTS in 10 week blocks, with a discount if they renew in the New Year. That gets the skiers and winter sports people in during the fall, and the ones motivated by the first snow fall in after Christmas. We also offer spring and late spring, which are surprisingly popular!

[slusher]

Never mind the blue collar/white collar thing. I just borrowed an existing thread to discuss the impact of the current economy on optional activities.

Parents are choosing where to spend their money and they're just not spending it. All of sports registration is down in our area. It would be nice if we could join forces with other clubs but the next closest club is 45 minutes away. They're in worse shape, their town's biggest employer is closing the factory so their learn to skate went from 85 to 16.

[luckeylasvegas]

I think to reach that elite status you need to have the perfect culmination of things.

#1 Talent - lets face it all the money in the world isn't going to get you there if you don't have the talent.

#2 Desire - you can have all the talent but if you don't have the desire you won't work enough for it. I always think of that ballet movie where the girl tells her mom " you didn't have the feet and I don't have the heart."

#3 Money - You have to have it and be willing to spend it. I got a second job to pay for my DD's 3 privates a week and I still couldn't keep up with the doctor's and dentist's kids that were skating everyday morning and afternoon with an hour long private every day, along with the pilates and ballet classes etc.

That being said I look at my DD's training as an investment in the future. I know when she reaches her late teens and beyond she will be able to get a job coaching for more money that she'd be making at the mall etc. She enjoys her competitions and is advancing at her own pace. We know she's never going to win an olympic gold medal, but she just might end up being Belle in Disney On Ice and that's where her dreams of figure skating began.:P

[sk8tmum]

To reply to the OP: we're dropping enrolments here too; and it's not just skating it's across the board in optional activities such as dance, gymnastics, etc. Where our CanSkate sessions are generally filled and waitlisted, we're only full on a couple of them. And, what we're seeing happening is less sessions: where a skater might have taken 2 weekly, now it's down to 1; where a dancer might have taken tap, jazz and ballet, it's now down to just, say, ballet. Every newspaper headline screaming RECESSION etc is reinforcing the concerns that many have.

We've also had job losses in the region from manufacturing jobs, and, equally importantly, many "white collar" workers have seen the annual bonuses that funded the skating etc being forecast as shrunken to non-existent.

I can definitely see some smaller clubs folding or doing some other type of right-sizing.

Frankly, I can see a good side to this: there are so many kids around here that have schedules that are packed solid with activities, that, having to focus and choose the ones that are most important/desired in a budgetary analysis process may help the kids and parents to make some wise choices that will reduce spread-thin kids and allow both parties to reflect on choices, opportunities, and goals. It should also, perhaps, help some of the kids that we often see who are unaware of the financial burden of their extracurriculars to see that they aren't "free" and that they do have an impact on the home.

[sk8lady]

We don't start our LTS till the week after next, when the rink finally opens, but the economy is clearly affecting sports--the hockey enrollments for two of the three local leagues were way, way down. One of them (the worst-run league) barely managed to squeak out one travel and one house team for each level (and actually, for travel, which is almost twice as expensive, not enough kids showed up at the tryouts to field a team--they went out and recruited from the house kids so they could put a team together). I don't know how the rec soccer leagues did this year but the school soccer team (which is free to play on) had numerous kids try out this year who've never done anything but rec soccer (pay to play).

Of course, on the bright side, gas is finally under $3.00 a gallon!!!:D

[Schmeck]

Skaters who made it big, even though they had less-than-rich parents:

Rudy Galindo (lived in a trailer park)
Michelle Kwan (wore used skates for a long time, hand-me-down clothing, had to win a Christmas tree one year so the family would have one)
Tonya Harding (not that I admire her, but her family was not rich)
Nancy Kerrigan (not uber-poor, but not uber-rich either)

[blue111moon]

Most of the 'Blue-collar" workers in my neighborhood make way more than I do in my "white-collar" office job. :) Of course, they put in way more hours a week than I do, too.

I think a lot depends on how much the family is willing to pitch in to keep the child doing something that they love. My friend's son plays high school football, and while the team is supported by the school, once they buy the boy shoes and other gear, and chip in for team jackets, transportation and outside training, they're spending as much as a skating parent does, although the football season is shorter.

If you can do without "keeping up with the Joneses" and get creative with saving and sharing, skating can be affordable.

And, as the old ISI saying went, "Kids on ice are not in hot water." There's a lot more to the sport than just medals and competitions.

[isakswings]

Most of the 'Blue-collar" workers in my neighborhood make way more than I do in my "white-collar" office job. :) Of course, they put in way more hours a week than I do, too.

I think a lot depends on how much the family is willing to pitch in to keep the child doing something that they love. My friend's son plays high school football, and while the team is supported by the school, once they buy the boy shoes and other gear, and chip in for team jackets, transportation and outside training, they're spending as much as a skating parent does, although the football season is shorter.

If you can do without "keeping up with the Joneses" and get creative with saving and sharing, skating can be affordable.

And, as the old ISI saying went, "Kids on ice are not in hot water." There's a lot more to the sport than just medals and competitions.

I agree and while my dh is a blue collar worker(electrician) he does make a decent living but we don't make a ton. Skating is expensive and we'll do our best to afford what we can for as long as we possibly can. I have no idea how far dd will go. I certainly don't think or expect she will be an elite skater and that's ok. When she started skating that was not my goal. The goal right now is for her to have fun and yes, increase her skills. She is doing all of that right now and so my current plan is to play this all by ear. We'll cross each bridge as we come to it. The level she is at now will allow her to skate and enjoy herself. For now, this is just fine. She's advancing and enjoying the thrill of competition.:-)

[sk8tmum]

My friend's son plays high school football, and while the team is supported by the school, once they buy the boy shoes and other gear, and chip in for team jackets, transportation and outside training, they're spending as much as a skating parent does, although the football season is shorter.

Out of curiosity: how much does high school football cost in the States? We've had hockey/dance/gymnastics vs skating comparisons here, but, never football ... my dad, who coached his 3 boys thru high school football here at pretty serious levels, would likely cease breathing (and eating and paying the mortgage ...) if it were to cost the thousands per kid that skating can !

[twokidsskatemom]

Out of curiosity: how much does high school football cost in the States? We've had hockey/dance/gymnastics vs skating comparisons here, but, never football ... my dad, who coached his 3 boys thru high school football here at pretty serious levels, would likely cease breathing (and eating and paying the mortgage ...) if it were to cost the thousands per kid that skating can !

I dont know about anywhere else, but the kids here dont pay much. The schools pay for the travel ect. The kids here travel distances to play and its all paid by the school.They might pay for uniforms? but I dont think much else.
High school hockey here is the same way, paid by the state.
I know at least here they dont put out any where near the money we do for skating.

[Query]

I know at least here they dont put out any where near the money we do for skating.

Anyone want to speculate why that is true?

[Skittl1321]

Anyone want to speculate why that is true?

In addition to football being subsidized by tax dollars (and many other school sports) how about...

-It's easier to maintain a crappy grass field then an ice rink? Our school district maintained 4 stadiums, but each school just had an empty crab-grass filled field.
-Football players don't work multiple times a week with private coaches (if even at all).
-Uniforms are standard and used for a long time- not expensive costumes that need to be replaced each change of program? Plus they are often issued by the team, and reused.
-More people participate in the sport, therefore things like cleats and padding is mass produced compared to figure skates and can be found for more reasonable prices.
-More spectators go to football games on a regular basis, therefore providing income to the team/school, where figure skating shows often run at a loss.


To play football at our school cost next to nothing. You had to buy your own cleats, and practice gear. The school provided the uniform and the travel. There was a summer camp that you had to pay for, but the team did fundraisers during the year so almost no one did. It was mostly unheard of for players to work with coaches, as unlike baseball, there weren't non-school teams. Even if they wanted to spend a ton of money, I would bet football players would have a tough time spending as much as even a pre-juv skater, and unless they were outfitted in new uniforms made by Chanel each week, they couldn't come close to the cost of being an unsponsored elite senior skater.

[blue111moon]

I asked my firend about her sons' football costs - she estimates that for the one playing high school ball (in a private school with tuition costing her almost $8,000 a year), she's already spent more than $3500 since mid August and the season's only about half-over. For her younger son, who plays in a county league funded by town youth programs, she's over $2000; that's down because the younger boy can use equipment his brother has outgrown and because the coaches are volunteers. She also does major fundraising almost every weekend.

This year's newest add-on charge is an extra fee to cover the costs of gas for the team bus. Even though gas prices have come down in the last few weeks, they're still charging the extra fee.

Just because a sport is school-funded, that doesn't mean it's cheap. Cheap-er than individual skating, maybe, but maybe we should be comparing football to synchro, since that's a team sport?

Most indidiuval sports are expensive because 100% of the costs fall on the one athlete.

[Mainemom]

Speaking as the mother of a juv-level skater (DD) and a high-school football player (DS), and the wife of a high school football head coach I have very personal experience in both fields. Our football team is in its second year as a club sport and hope to attain varsity status at the high school next year but even though we have received zero support from the school other than providing us with a very small practice field at the school (our games are played on a field several miles away) the only money our players are required to contribute is selling $100 worth of raffle tickets once a season. All uniforms, busing, medical supplies and equipment have been provided by our booster club which has been doing fundraising for several years to support the team.
The whole point about football, IMO, is that it is a sport for everyone, from every walk of economic life. If I had to shell out for football what I do for DD, I would be broke! DS and his dad do travel in the offseason to various clinics and camps, but even with travel costs DS isn't anywhere near as expensive. Most of his offseason is spent in the weight room, on the track and in our backyard with dad, all of which are free. His cleats were $150 though, but a lot of players get by with cheaper ones. I wish DD's skates were that inexpensive. Even replacing worn out cleats (the metal spikes on the bottom, I mean) is cheaper than a skate sharpening!

[twokidsskatemom]

Speaking as the mother of a juv-level skater (DD) and a high-school football player (DS), and the wife of a high school football head coach I have very personal experience in both fields. Our football team is in its second year as a club sport and hope to attain varsity status at the high school next year but even though we have received zero support from the school other than providing us with a very small practice field at the school (our games are played on a field several miles away) the only money our players are required to contribute is selling $100 worth of raffle tickets once a season. All uniforms, busing, medical supplies and equipment have been provided by our booster club which has been doing fundraising for several years to support the team.
The whole point about football, IMO, is that it is a sport for everyone, from every walk of economic life. If I had to shell out for football what I do for DD, I would be broke! DS and his dad do travel in the offseason to various clinics and camps, but even with travel costs DS isn't anywhere near as expensive. Most of his offseason is spent in the weight room, on the track and in our backyard with dad, all of which are free. His cleats were $150 though, but a lot of players get by with cheaper ones. I wish DD's skates were that inexpensive. Even replacing worn out cleats (the metal spikes on the bottom, I mean) is cheaper than a skate sharpening!
I agree with you. The kids here travel by plane or bus within state, from Barrow to Valdez. The school picks up most, the Booster club the rest. I can see if someone chooses to go to an outside camp, summer training , but that is a parents cost.I am sure most kids dont have the expense of plane costs, such as in our state. Still little expense to parent.
Hockey the same way, just spending/food money on trips.

[RachelSk8er]

What, is Joe the Plumber thinking of signing his kid up for learn-to-skate? :lol:

Out-of-pocket my parents actually paid more for my brother's hockey when we were kids. He played on a junior team that bussed to out of town tournaments just about every other weekend. Dad coached the team. Dad and his business partner owned the rink they practiced at.

I skated synchro (was on a senior team from 8th grade until I left for college)--we traveled to mids and nationals (locations varied) and 2-3 other comps usually in Michigan, maybe a trip to Buffalo or Canada. For internationals our travel and hotel were paid for by the USFS and my parents did not go.

However, the synchro organization had so much fundraising that enough went into my account with the club to cover my team fees/travel, travel for my mom to competitions, costumes, and even my private lessons. Granted we worked our butts off to earn that much money (mostly working in the club stand at major league baseball games, NBA games, etc--money which was not taxed). Spending Saturday nights serving drunk people nachos at an NBA game is not exactly a teenager's idea of fun, but if it meant I could have more lessons or new skates, you bet my butt was there if I wasn't already working at my normal part-time job at the rink.

[Mrs Redboots]

What, is Joe the Plumber thinking of signing his kid up for learn-to-skate? :lol:

I don't see why not - the guy from the garage we take our car to be serviced signed his kid up - and has been really nice to us ever since!

[isakswings]

I dont know about anywhere else, but the kids here dont pay much. The schools pay for the travel ect. The kids here travel distances to play and its all paid by the school.They might pay for uniforms? but I dont think much else.
High school hockey here is the same way, paid by the state.
I know at least here they dont put out any where near the money we do for skating.

Wow. I wish our state would pay for HS hockey! As far as I know, the kids who play on our HS hockey team pay a lot more then other kids do to play in other team sports.

[isakswings]

I don't see why not - the guy from the garage we take our car to be serviced signed his kid up - and has been really nice to us ever since!

I don't see why not either. Like I said before, my dh is an electrician and our dd skates.