Getting rid of "sky miles"

[sue123]

I travel so much on my spins, I could probably have earned enough sky miles to get a round trip ticket to Australia. Today, I was spinning in the center, and ended up knocking into a cone. I think when I first started spinning, I was less concerned with centering, and more concerned with just getting around. Now, I am noticing that they travel all over the place. If it matters, the only spins I'm talking about are scratch and sit, since I'm now without a coach, but I was taught those under her guidance, but I don't want to try a new spin without a coach.

[Isk8NYC]

Well, you could DONATE the sky miles to a charity. Most frequent-flyer programs allow that option. Just kidding.

Let's focus on the entry, for starters: look at your tracings after you do a spin.

The back crossover/hold edge draws a circle on the ice.
A guaranteed-traveling spin will happen if your forward step leaves that curve at more than (appx) 60 degrees.
If you focus on stepping into the circle, you'll conserve momentum and speed, plus you'll be able to center the spin earlier.

A lot of young skaters don't get this idea, so I teach them to "go back the way you came" - having them step forward inside the circle with the intent of heading back along the same way the back edge just came. They can't do that, of course, but it does keep them from stepping "behind themselves" and puts them in the habit of heading into the circle.


ETA:
Many skaters actually STOP and turn around to enter the spin - that defeats the purpose of the back crossovers. The crossovers build momentum and speed. You have to step forward while still moving and try to conserve that energy. To do that effectively, don't dig the toepicks in on the back crossover hold, and make sure to step forward onto a deeply bent knee. Put your feet together before you push onto that FO edge.

[doubletoe]

When you do your entrance edge on the spin, try not to cover any distance on the ice. Instead, think about staying in the same spot and just doing a little round curl on the ice that brings you almost back to where you started. The deeper the knee bend and the more you rotate your leading shoulder, the easier that will be to do.
As my coach always says, "If your spin travels, it's because you're trying to go somewhere!" He's right; that's the difference between a spin and twizzles!

[Team Arthritis]

If you focus on stepping into the circle, you'll conserve momentum and speed, plus you'll be able to center the spin earlier.

A lot of young skaters don't get this idea, so I teach them to "go back the way you came" - having them step forward inside the circle with the intent of heading back along the same way the back edge just came. They can't do that, of course, but it does keep them from stepping "behind themselves" and puts them in the habit of heading into the circle.


ETA:
Many skaters actually STOP and turn around to enter the spin - that defeats the purpose of the back crossovers. The crossovers build momentum and speed. You have to step forward while still moving and try to conserve that energy. To do that effectively, don't dig the toepicks in on the back crossover hold, and make sure to step forward onto a deeply bent knee. Put your feet together before you push onto that FO edge.

When you do your entrance edge on the spin, try not to cover any distance on the ice. Instead, think about staying in the same spot and just doing a little round curl on the ice that brings you almost back to where you started. The deeper the knee bend and the more you rotate your leading shoulder, the easier that will be to do.
As my coach always says, "If your spin travels, it's because you're trying to go somewhere!" He's right; that's the difference between a spin and twizzles!

Fascinating differences in approach. My coach wants me to hold the entry edge for a full 180 degrees and then shorten the edge and snap into the set position right along the lines of what ISK8NYC said - if I travel she says it because I didn't hold the edge long enough. This is also along the lines of the Lussi tape.
Now my natural inclination is more like 2toes explained and Petkovich describes in his book - it seems that the shorter entry edge feels more natural and has more "snap" but unless I really lean in hard this travels out to my right (CCW spinner).
FWIW
Lyle http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/tiere/r010.gif

[Isk8NYC]

My remarks really focus on what happens BEFORE the forward entry edge. Doubletoe picked up where I left off very nicely.
(I'll see if I can draw out what I described - a picture's worth a thousand words.)

This article (originally from the PSA Magazine, but available online from IceSkatingWorld.com, is specifically about centering spins:
http://www.iceskatingworld.com/library/articles/psmag_96mayjun.html

[sue123]

Isk8NYC, I like that idea of stepping back where you came. I'll have a look when I go tomorrow and see, maybe I'm stepping too far out. It wouldn't surprise me though, because when I spin from a standstill, they're always centered, and I think on a standstill, I have a smaller angle when I step onto the left foot.

Doubletoe, I assume you meant the left foot not covering any distance (I spin CCW)? I was taught that you hold the back edge for a while, maybe even longer than I feel I have to before stepping. But I will focus on when I step to not go so far. All these little things you normally don't think of. I can tell you, I never before focused on how much distance I was covering when I stepped.

[cecealias]

This may be really hard because it takes some discipline, but try working on your spins like this:

Find a hockey line.

stand still in a T-stop position. Do NOT move!

With ONE push, push into a spin. Go only 2-3 revolutions, then stop.

Check your entry mark.

Your initial push should have been a semi-circle that started and ended on the hockey line.

The 3 turn initiating the spin should have been on the line where the semi-circle ended.

If it isn't you didn't curve enough.

Go back and try again. Repeat.

[techskater]

To add to the above post, the entry edge and subsequent 3 turn should look like a "6", otherwise you didn't wait long enough (at least according to a really good coach in Boston)

[doubletoe]

Fascinating differences in approach. My coach wants me to hold the entry edge for a full 180 degrees and then shorten the edge and snap into the set position right along the lines of what ISK8NYC said - if I travel she says it because I didn't hold the edge long enough. This is also along the lines of the Lussi tape.
Now my natural inclination is more like 2toes explained and Petkovich describes in his book - it seems that the shorter entry edge feels more natural and has more "snap" but unless I really lean in hard this travels out to my right (CCW spinner).
FWIW
Lyle http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/tiere/r010.gif

Not really conflicting. You definitely want to hold the entrance edge as long as possible, but the problem is that when coaches say "long" (meaning length of time spent on the edge), a lot of people automatically do a "long" (meaning covering lots of distance) 3-turn as the entrance! I hate to admit how long (time) it took me to figure that out, LOL! So yes, you want to hold that edge for as long as you can, but you want it to curl so that you don't cover much distance on the ice. And you want to make sure your shoulders are level, no matter what. There should be no lean, only twist of the shoulders and head in the direction of the spin on the entrance edge.

[doubletoe]

Isk8NYC, I like that idea of stepping back where you came. I'll have a look when I go tomorrow and see, maybe I'm stepping too far out. It wouldn't surprise me though, because when I spin from a standstill, they're always centered, and I think on a standstill, I have a smaller angle when I step onto the left foot.

Doubletoe, I assume you meant the left foot not covering any distance (I spin CCW)? I was taught that you hold the back edge for a while, maybe even longer than I feel I have to before stepping. But I will focus on when I step to not go so far. All these little things you normally don't think of. I can tell you, I never before focused on how much distance I was covering when I stepped.

Yes, I meant the actual spin entrance edge (left foot for fwd spin in CCW direction), not the preparatory edge. Assuming you hold your spin entrance edge for 2 seconds and that gives you an edge that is 5 feet long, you could either have it fairly straight and start your spin 4 feet away from where you started the edge OR you could make the edge really round so that you come around and start the spin just 2 feet from where you started the edge. The rounder edge is the "don't go anywhere if you don't want to travel" edge. ;)

[mikawendy]

As my coach always says, "If your spin travels, it's because you're trying to go somewhere!" He's right; that's the difference between a spin and twizzles!

Oh, yes, the great irony of life is that my spins sometimes travel, but I can't get my twizzle attempts to travel--they're too spinny. My coach says they're not really twizzles if you're just backspinning in one place.... :frus: :frus: :frus:

[SkatingOnClouds]

I have been trying alternative spin entrances lately. From crossovers, instead of stepping back the way I came into the circle, stepping around to my left, out of the circle. Hard to explain, but it makes an S before the 6.

The other entry I'm getting success on for spins at the moment, especially camels, is to do a RFI3 then step to the outside into the LFO edge entry for the spin.

Initially I found these entries harder to centre, however now I feel I am getting a really curly, tight, deep entry with the 2nd method. The other advantage is that you can get into a spin quickly, anywhere, without the long, crossover preparation.

[sue123]

So I went spinning today, and all in all, lets just say I have a lot of work to do. I tried to makke the back right edge curve around like it does in the picture in the article that was linked, and tried to spend not so much time on the entry edge. Well, when I was able to do htis, I couldn't get more than 3 revs. I have a feeling this is going to take some work.

Actually, my longest and most centered spin ever came accidentally when I was falling. I was practicing the spins, when I somehow managed to fall, only I couldn't get off that sweet spot, and my boots are stiff so it's not like my ankle was going to collapse, so I somehow managed to have my right hip and shoulder on the ice while spinning on my left foot, and i could not stop it! I was literally somehow stuck on that sweet spot of the blade. Eventually, I think I may have built up enough friction with the ice or something and somehow stopped, but I must admit, it was pretty amusing, even for me. When I got up, I saw that it looked like a nice, centered spin.

[Skate@Delaware]

I've been in spin remediation for several months now :cry: ...I don't know what happened to my good ones. Anyway, I've been given 2 exercises to do:

1-from a t-stop step out, curve around until I've come full circle then bring my leg across to the front, center and spin.
-and-
2-on a line: mohawk; cross the line, back crossover until I'm back at the line, step across the line, curve BACK to the line, spin.....

I have not been too successful with the curving part; I can't seem to curve it enough to get back to where I was! I have found, though, that pointing my toe up and slightly out helps a bit (of my free leg) and not popping up right away.

well, I do have all summer to work on this...:giveup:

[coskater64]

As a child/teen I had a horrible centering problem on my spins. My parents found my tests for prelim and juv and both noted my skill at holding a spin while traveling. My mom swears I would travel 10-15 feet on a sit spin while being in a decent sit spin position, it was my layback that was usually the winner. I had a very lopsided orbit as a child. Oh my!:lol: :lol:

[Award]

My mom swears I would travel 10-15 feet on a sit spin while being in a decent sit spin position, it was my layback that was usually the winner. I had a very lopsided orbit as a child. Oh my!:lol: :lol:

hahahahaha! I can just picture that. Like, you get into a spin, and then end up on the other side of the rink hehe. Actually, some people work real hard to develop travelling spins ...... so some folks might be jealous about what you could do.....especially with a travelling sit spin.

[SkatingOnClouds]

I used to skate with a girl who was an amazing spinner. She was incredibly fast, yet rarely centred, but her spins would travel at incredible speed down our very small rink looking totally under control. I used to envy her ability to spin in all sorts of positions, even though not one was ever centred.

[Sessy]

Sounds like my scratch spin - travelling across the ice rink! I've forced people into the boardings doing my scratch lol! Surprisingly, my sit spin and camel are much more centered than my scratch spin. I'm guessing that's why my scratch spin takes so much strength, when I do a "good" spin, I recenter it like twice during the spin, and still it travels all over the place, but anyways to keep that under control you need strength.

The reason for an uncentered camel is not tensing the muscles that go from your leading shoulder down your back into the hip, acting with your leg like you're trying to give somebody a kick/punch like in asian movies. The hip needs to stay in.

[Sonic]

Sounds like my scratch spin - travelling across the ice rink! I've forced people into the boardings doing my scratch lol! Surprisingly, my sit spin and camel are much more centered than my scratch spin.

They sound exactly like mine!

S xxx

[Isk8NYC]

My mom swears I would travel 10-15 feet on a sit spin while being in a decent sit spin position, it was my layback that was usually the winner. The Ice Skating Institute (ISI) has a rule that allows each spin to travel only 3 blade lengths from start to finish. As a result, you would see many ISI skaters checking their tracings after spins as if they had just done Figures. Oh, and the change foot spins were 3 each, so everyone would be walking heel-to-toe, measuring the distances. LOL

[Team Arthritis]

Yes, I meant the actual spin entrance edge (left foot for fwd spin in CCW direction), not the preparatory edge. Assuming you hold your spin entrance edge for 2 seconds and that gives you an edge that is 5 feet long, you could either have it fairly straight and start your spin 4 feet away from where you started the edge OR you could make the edge really round so that you come around and start the spin just 2 feet from where you started the edge. The rounder edge is the "don't go anywhere if you don't want to travel" edge. ;)

Hmmmmmmmmm, or should I say Dooooooh! Maybe that's what coach means when she says hold it longer. Thanks for the insite, will try this approach.
Lyle

[Team Arthritis]

Actually, my longest and most centered spin ever came accidentally when I was falling. I was practicing the spins, when I somehow managed to fall, only I couldn't get off that sweet spot, and my boots are stiff so it's not like my ankle was going to collapse, so I somehow managed to have my right hip and shoulder on the ice while spinning on my left foot, and i could not stop it! I was literally somehow stuck on that sweet spot of the blade. Eventually, I think I may have built up enough friction with the ice or something and somehow stopped, but I must admit, it was pretty amusing, even for me. When I got up, I saw that it looked like a nice, centered spin.
Now That's one I'd love to see!
Lyle

[doubletoe]

Hmmmmmmmmm, or should I say Dooooooh! Maybe that's what coach means when she says hold it longer. Thanks for the insite, will try this approach.
Lyle

Hey, I can't tell you how long it took me to realize that when my coach said, "long" he meant number of seconds hold, not number of feet across the ice! :roll: Now I count, "one-two-three" on my preparatory edge and "one-two-three" on my spin entrance edge. It really helps.

[sue123]

Now That's one I'd love to see!
Lyle

I don't think it's something I could ever repeat. But I'm feeling it today, my arm is so sore right now.

Didn't have any chance to skate today, since I had to work, but they told me at work that they have enough money if I come maybe twice a week, which would mean that I could use the rest of the time skating.

[Mrs Redboots]

Sounds like my scratch spin - travelling across the ice rink! I've forced people into the boardings doing my scratch lol!
The husband, whose spins, to quote himself, very often need a passport, if not a visa, once spun himself straight into the plexiglass and bashed his nose. He was so disappointed when it didn't bleed.

[Sessy]

The husband, whose spins, to quote himself, very often need a passport, if not a visa, once spun himself straight into the plexiglass and bashed his nose. He was so disappointed when it didn't bleed.

ROTFLOL! Sounds like me. Fell on my eyebrow this week, bruised the thing, and was VERY dissapointed the bruise was there, just invisible under eyebrow hair and the crease where I normally apply eyeshadow...
I was just like, DARN, couldn't the thing have gone one inch sideways? :twisted:

To make up for it, I had my first bleeding nose in my life this week though. I wonder if the hit to the eyebrow triggered it somehow or something, cuz I've never had my nose bleed, not even when I was hit on it. :lol:

[Sessy]

The Ice Skating Institute (ISI) has a rule that allows each spin to travel only 3 blade lengths from start to finish. As a result, you would see many ISI skaters checking their tracings after spins as if they had just done Figures. Oh, and the change foot spins were 3 each, so everyone would be walking heel-to-toe, measuring the distances. LOL

We have a "no travelling" rule for spins in class tests, I just don't know what they mean under "no travelling". Obviously there's always going to be some travel. For example, if a spin travels in a full circle like my scratch often does, how do you count that?

Anyway I'm not up to that level of testing yet anyway so I'm not worried yet. :lol:

[Team Arthritis]

[QUOTE=Sessy;316010] For example, if a spin travels in a full circle like my scratch often does, how do you count that?
QUOTE]
We count that as a flower http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/froehlich/s070.gif
Lyle

[Skate@Delaware]

[quote=Sessy;316010] For example, if a spin travels in a full circle like my scratch often does, how do you count that?
QUOTE]
We count that as a flower http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/froehlich/s070.gif
Lyle
Oh, the flowers!!! I used to make such beautiful posies on the ice!!!!! Now they are just all messed up....

[Team Arthritis]

OOH a new pattern today - feeble attempts at a sit change sit -> I made a giant 'W'

(or should I say squat , squat on other leg8O )
Lyle