Freestyle vs. Dance Skates (Attn: Dancers!)

[WeirFan06]

Hi there, I just started ice dance pretty recently so I'm using my freestyle boots/blades for my dance lessons. I've seen people do that before and they don't seem to have too much trouble, but I'm already having some problems, especially doing proper progressives, with the freestyle toepick.

At what point should I consider getting a new pair specifically for ice dance?? I'm thinking that I should just go get some now and start getting used to them... but we all know how expensive skates are... especially if you have oddly shaped feet that will only fit into custom boots :roll:

If there are any dancers here who had to switch from freestyle to dance skates, when did you end up getting them? And how hard was it to get used to them??? I think I might fall over backwards because of the shorter blades... good thing I have much natural padding back there!! Thanks for any advice you could give me!

[TashaKat]

Hi :)

I wore both freestyle and dance boots. I got them after I'd done the 'baby' dances and my toe picks and heels started to get in the way. I didn't find the transition too difficult though I was a bit wobbly to start with! What I DID find was that turns (esp 3 turns) were so much easier in dance boots.

I didn't actually buy specific dance boots, only blades (though I was saving up for some custom Harlicks in dance options) and used my old freestyle boots which were still in good condition but just not supportive enough for Free anymore.

Some people find it difficult to switch between the two but I didn't have any problem once I got used to them. All of my coaches kids that did both had two sets of boots and managed fine. One did, however, take one free and one dance boot to a test by mistake! Thankfully a right and a left foot and THANKFULLY she passed the test, a very high test that not many people pass first time :) She says that she was more relaxed because she thought that she'd blown it :)

You can continue to wear freestyle boots for dance and many do, however, I managed to stand on my heel doing the 14 step (trying to get my feet nice and close together) and ended up landing on my head resulting in a suspected skull fracture :??

So .... the choice is yours :) If you've some spare boots hanging around then why not see if you can buy a pair of 2nd hand dance blades cheap and see how they feel?

[vesperholly]

I know a girl who passed all her Golds in her freestyle boots and blades. Most of the skaters at my rink only get dance boots and blades if they're competing as a team - and often times not even then. My rink has quite a few Pre-Gold and Gold dancers, too.

I don't think you need to think about dance boots and blades until you're on at least Silver or Pre-Gold dances. Save the cost for more lessons.

[kateskate]

I have John Watts Evolution blades and I dance on them. I've never found it to be a problem although granted I have never tried dance blades and I'm not a high level dancer and I mainly dance solo so no blade clipping problems! I'm working for level 6 standard (which is the last of the silver levels) in dance and level 4 free skating (first of the silver levels) (all NISA UK tests) and for my level on pair of blades suits me fine. Equally I know a girl who only has dance blades and she free skates on them. She's worked on an axel but as far as I know she can't land it but she has all her other singles on dance blades.

Plus I always switch between practising dance and free on the same session and having different boots for each would be annoying!

[jenlyon60]

I switched to dance blades when I was on my European Waltz the first time (before I took a 10 year break). Back then the only dance blade in town was the original MK dance. And I switched at that point mostly because I was getting new boots and I had a chance to buy a pair of blades at wholesale cost. I tested through my Foxtrot on Pattern 99s. And FWIW, I don't remember ever stepping on the heel of my blade on either the open outside mohawk in the 10Fox/14Step or the closed outside mohawk in the Foxtrot. (And back then one generally had to start soloing the dances at the Bronze level. There was no PreBronze dance level yet.)

I know of dancers who are either working on or who have completed through International dances using standard freestyle blades and wouldn't think of using anything else.

Using the USFS test structure as an example, personally I think switching to dance blades anytime before PreSilvers is too soon. But that's just my opinion.

I'm actually contemplating going back to my old trustworthy Pattern 99's when my current pair of Ultima Ascends wears out.

[phoenix]

I was on my last silver when I switched. I agree that the low dances aren't really necessary.....unless maybe you know that you're going to continue & it's time for new blades anyway. Or as TashKat suggested, if you have an old pair of boots & just put on dance blades.

I do love my dance blades & I think turns are easier on them. I also lurve the blunted drag pick so the scratches aren't quite so loud! :twisted:

[Mrs Redboots]

If you plan to continue free skating, stay in one pair of boots and blades for now. Many high-level dancers are quite happy in an all-purpose blade, others like to have separate boots and blades for each discipline - and only you can know which camp you fall into!

Husband and I both have dance blades - I have John Watts Dance and he has Coronation Dance - and he, at least, is very able for his low-level free skating in the dance blades! I do very little free, but can and do do a fairly respectable toe-loop, even in dance blades!

[icedancer2]

I got dance blades when I was working on the 14-step with my coach. I stepped on my blade on the mohawk and on the way down he said to me, "Get dance blades!", so in my next pair of boots, a few months later, I got my first pair of dance blades -- they were called "Wilson Dance" -- they don't make them anymore, but I found out much later that they were the Wilson Majestic with the backs cut off.

I loved those blades and wore them down completely. Then I had the opportunity to buy a pair of MK Dance (the thin ones) at 75% off because of the rink pro-shop closing. They are okay, but I don't like the picks, you can't do any jumps or toey kinds of things on them because the picks are so small. I didn't feel much difference in the length but they are shorter than the old Wilson Dance. I have never felt completely stable on them.

Then I got new boots and I thought I would try a dance boot. They are supposedly shorter in the back, but when I compared them to my old boots (all SP Teri) they are the same height in the back, and about an inch higher in the front, which creates the ILLUSION of being shorter in the back. They are okay. They are heat-molded which I'm not sure I like, and I think are made of synthetic materials and I have had a hard time breaking them in -- not as far as soreness or blisters go, but as far as really really being able to bend my ankles the way I would like. I can blame the boots I guess.

Also on these boots I got a new $425 dance blade that I thought I might like -- they are called Super Dance 99 and are even shorter than the MK (by 1/4 inch, but still, I could feel it) and are based on a Pattern 99 stanchion and so they are lower than the other blades. I loved the ride of these blades -- such speed and flow, but frankly that much speed kind of freaked me out and I felt out of control plus the additional shortness made the blades dangerous for me and so I had my blade guy put the old MK Dance back on the boots.

It's always a struggle. I agree at this point that although I supposedly am a Silver Dancer and am working on Pre-Gold Dances and Bronze Moves (and Silver figures) I think I still have too much boot/blade for me and on some level I would love to just go and get a pair of Coronation Ace and put them on a softer leather boot and I think I would feel more stable, especially as I get older and less willing to put up with falls, etc. (yes, sports fans, this does happen, and no, it is not just a bad attitude).

I know we have had discussions about some of the other dance blades, but it does become a very expensive and frustrating habit to be obsessed with the boot/blade issue, so I would say that if you feel comfortable skating on a freestyle blade, then keep the blade you like. There are plenty of dancers out there with freestyle blades, albeit maybe you might try a smaller set of picks than the ones you are using now.

Another cheaper option is to try a Synchro blade -- I don't know why they are less expensive than the dance blades because they really look about the same.

If I could I would go back to that original Wilson Dance that I had as my first dance blade, but since they don't make them anymore, all I can do is keep trolling ebay for a used pair, or find some sports shop that has a pair in their back room that I could buy.

Strangely enough I did recently buy a pair of used MK DAnce blades on ebay to use as a backup to my current blades if they should wear out.

Can you tell I've become obsessed by this?

[Mrs Redboots]

Synchro blades rock! I had a pair before my John Watts Dance, and they were great. I was going to have had Coronation Dance (icedancer2, if you are really finding your MK Dance too much blade for you, you could try these), but it was when MK and Wilson were merging and there was a blade famine. So the fitter only had Team Precision blades, which I used for years until they wore out.

[WeirFan06]

Wow, thanks so much for all of your replies!! I guess I'll just hang out in my freestyle blades for right now and see if the issue with the toepick gets better... maybe it will when I'm more comfortable with the new and different style of skating. Also, I never thought of the issue of wanting to practice dance and freestyle elements in the same session... I do that when I get bored with one or the other, which is frequently!

When (and if) I do decide to get the dance blades, I'll probably end up getting a new boot with it. I got my current skates almost 10 years ago and I'm not that hard on them so they probably have a lot of good years left, so unfortunately (or maybe fortunately depending on how you look at it) I don't have an old pair to stick some dance blades on. And I would be mighty afraid to see the look on my primary coach's face if I showed up to practice one day with dance blades on my current pair!!! :twisted:

Anyway, thanks so much again. GREATLY appreciated since you all probably just saved me $1000 worth of new skate!!!

[jenlyon60]

If you adjust where on the blade you're pressuring during normal stroking/progressives so that you're further back on the blade, you won't find the toepick so easily.

Both of my coaches want me to have my weight/pressure no further forward than mid-blade for forwards skating, and a tad further back for backwards skating. It's a scary feeling at first but it makes for more efficient stroking.

[jazzpants]

I got my current skates almost 10 years ago and I'm not that hard on them so they probably have a lot of good years left, so unfortunately (or maybe fortunately depending on how you look at it) I don't have an old pair to stick some dance blades on. And I would be mighty afraid to see the look on my primary coach's face if I showed up to practice one day with dance blades on my current pair!!! :twisted:HOLY MOLEY!!! Your boots are THAT OLD!?!?!?! 8O

I'd be more worried about your secondary coach than your primary coach on this issue consider how he was with me about ice dancing in the FIRST place! Then again, it's fun picking on the two of them! LOL!!! :twisted: :lol:

[das_mondlicht]

This information is great! I have a spare pair of new SP Teri and was considering to get dance blades when I started ice-dancing 2 months ago. But I haven't had any luck to explore the difference of freestyle and dance blades. I am currently wearing Riedell GoldStar with Ace, which is just fine. But occasionally, I kick blade tail when doing backward progressives. Maybe I can give it a try to one of the dance blades mentioned here when I move on to bronze dance level or higher.

Luna

[WeirFan06]

Both of my coaches want me to have my weight/pressure no further forward than mid-blade for forwards skating, and a tad further back for backwards skating. It's a scary feeling at first but it makes for more efficient stroking.

Ahh, one of the exercises we did yesterday makes sense now. He had me skate backwards in a small circle and then lift up one foot in front of me and glide backwards in the same circle, and he kept telling me to get my weight off the front of the blade. It felt crappy... and then I almost took him out because I stumbled backwards, throwing elbows and things toward where he was standing. Oops.

And JAZZPANTS, yes my skates are THAT OLD. I got them in May of 1997 as my high school graduation present. Well worth the money my momma spent on them :D

[jazzpants]

And JAZZPANTS, yes my skates are THAT OLD. I got them in May of 2007 as my high school graduation present. Well worth the money my momma spent on them :DYou mean 1997??? (2007 hasn't happened yet! LOL!!!) :lol: :P

[jenlyon60]

Ahh, one of the exercises we did yesterday makes sense now. He had me skate backwards in a small circle and then lift up one foot in front of me and glide backwards in the same circle, and he kept telling me to get my weight off the front of the blade. It felt crappy... and then I almost took him out because I stumbled backwards, throwing elbows and things toward where he was standing. Oops.



Bend at the ankle.... That will shift the body forwards enough to compensate for the weight being further back on the blade. I keep joking with one of my coaches that we need to invent some sort of little noise disc to put inside the tongue of my boots. Then whenever I flex my ankles sufficiently while skating, it makes noise.

[WeirFan06]

I keep joking with one of my coaches that we need to invent some sort of little noise disc to put inside the tongue of my boots. Then whenever I flex my ankles sufficiently while skating, it makes noise.


That is a REALLY good idea. It probably wouldn't be too difficult an invention to invent either. Thanks for the advice... I'm sure my coach and his nose that I almost broke both thank you as well!!!

[Casey]

I keep joking with one of my coaches that we need to invent some sort of little noise disc to put inside the tongue of my boots. Then whenever I flex my ankles sufficiently while skating, it makes noise.

Those exist - I saw a demo video and they can play your choice of 3 or 4 silly sounds. I remember thinking, "who would ever want to buy this?!? - too embarassing!", but I guess that question's answered now. ;)

I don't know the website anymore though...

[luna_skater]

I know a girl who passed all her Golds in her freestyle boots and blades. Most of the skaters at my rink only get dance boots and blades if they're competing as a team - and often times not even then. My rink has quite a few Pre-Gold and Gold dancers, too.

I don't think you need to think about dance boots and blades until you're on at least Silver or Pre-Gold dances. Save the cost for more lessons.

I'd say 90% of the skaters I know passed their gold dances in free boots and blades. The ones who have dance boots/blades are either competitive dancers, skaters who don't compete in dance but have quit free skate entirely (maybe just working on dance and skills tests for fun), or synchro skaters. Dance skates do make some things easier, but are definitely not a necessity.

[Perry]

I know a girl who passed all her Golds in her freestyle boots and blades. Most of the skaters at my rink only get dance boots and blades if they're competing as a team - and often times not even then. My rink has quite a few Pre-Gold and Gold dancers, too.

I don't think you need to think about dance boots and blades until you're on at least Silver or Pre-Gold dances. Save the cost for more lessons.

I've passed four internationals (including the Yankee Polka, so turns can't be much of a problem!) freestyle boots and gold seal baldes, which have one of the largest toepicks on the market. Honestly, dance blades are really not neccessary at the lower levels. If you're having trouble on progressives, you may just need to get used to doing them (instead of crossovers) -- they're prefectly manageable in freestyle blades.

On the progressives, you will need to practice a lot of them. They may look like crossovers, but it's really like learning a whole new move. Which way is your coach having you lean? I counter-lean on mine (to the outside of the circle) which is the European way (I think...I always mix them up). The style of the day seems to be the Russian way (again, I might be getting them backwards) which is leaning to the inside of the circle. Both are acceptable -- and unless your coach majorly favors one over the other, I'd experiment and see what works better for you. Oh, and the more you can bend your knees, the better. Practice them very slowly first to get the feeling.

[Team Arthritis]

Bend at the ankle.... That will shift the body forwards enough to compensate for the weight being further back on the blade. I keep joking with one of my coaches that we need to invent some sort of little noise disc to put inside the tongue of my boots. Then whenever I flex my ankles sufficiently while skating, it makes noise.

I don't need one, whenever I bend enough, my knees hurt, OI, LOL
Lyle

[WeirFan06]

Which way is your coach having you lean? I counter-lean on mine (to the outside of the circle) which is the European way (I think...I always mix them up). The style of the day seems to be the Russian way (again, I might be getting them backwards) which is leaning to the inside of the circle. Both are acceptable -- and unless your coach majorly favors one over the other, I'd experiment and see what works better for you. Oh, and the more you can bend your knees, the better. Practice them very slowly first to get the feeling.

My coach hasn't been too picky with them so far, but he seems to be ok with me leaning toward the inside of the circle. When I watch him, I think he leans toward the inside as well, which if that's the russian kind would make sense since he had a pair of Russian coaches up until last month. If not... well then I guess it doesn't make as much sense :P I've been trying bend my knees more with EVERYTHING but they hurt!!! Like, not the muscles around them, but the actual joints... they ACHE!!! I guess it's like everything else, though... you have to practice and then it gets better. (Hopefully!) Thanks for your response!

[Mrs Redboots]

We have to lean into the circle. I have too much trouble getting my weight over the inside hip for my coach even to remotely countenance allowing me to lean out, although in fact the posture when one does looks better (imho).