Hi

Well, in my rink, on my practise and lesson day(s), I almost always see an adult man, probably doing axels and all that, probably over ISI freestyle level 5 or so. He is really showing off, he never has a coach. The dangerous thing about him is that I have seen him zooming through little kids whilst he is jumping.

He also just suddenly jumped right in front of me with some kind of axel jump after my lesson on Friday. He nearly gave me a heart attack, as he was not looking that I am right behind him, or at least very close to him.

My home rink does not say anything about this dangerous guy. I think that it is coz he is a regular skater practising in the rink, and so they do not care.

However, I am scared that one day this man is really going to cause a nasty accident.

Not sure if that this should go here, but seeing that no other place to post this thread.

londonicechamp

You could try talking nicely to him when you have a chance. Start with complimenting his great skating. You could say that while he's such a great skater, the rest of you ("us") are not. Then you can move on to letting him know that when he zooms too close to you, it's scary, and you're afraid that you might get hurt just from being startled. If he seems receptive, you could go on to say that it's true for the little kids too. I use this approach on the crazy hockey kids on public sessions, and it usually works pretty well.

__________________

Is this person skating on FS sessions? Or publics?
If it's FS, he may be no different from a little hotshot who is skating all over the place, not that that's right either. If it's public, somebody needs to definitely say something. Most rinks don't allow axels and camels and such on crowded publics.
Kay

__________________
Visit my figure skating journal
http://www.skatejournal.com/

Too him, he may not be close. The higher the level the skater, the more typical it is that you skate near others because you can control it as long as you have an inkling of what THEY are going to do. If I am stuck on a public session, I tend to give people a wider berth than I do on a FS session for a couple reasons:
1) it startles the less experienced skater and can cause him/her to change direction into your path
2) many inexperienced skaters don't skate with purpose, therefore you don't know where they may go versus skaters on a FS session who are similar or higher levels than I am (adult Gold) who you can ascertain the path they are taking.

To that end, I would politely ask him (after a compliment or two) to please give me a little more space in the future as you are still determining your purpose as a skater.

I'd like to echo that to his perception, what he is doing is likely not dangerous at all (as for the axel - he's jumping away from you, and the axel has a forward takeoff so he knows exactly where he's going to land and who is there, so that seems fairly safe as well - a lutz, now that would be dangerous on a public). He may not have a clue that he's freaking you out though. Personally I had no idea my weaving in and out of streams of public skaters was scaring anybody until someone on a forum made me think about it once. I always kind of assumed that, much like with the hockeyers at my rink who also like to do this, people would realise that unlike your typical public skater we don't need half the rink to just stop. And maybe they do, but I kinda cracked down on my own weaving in and out at publics since just to be sure. He may not be aware he's scaring you though, much like I wasn't.

Yes, you should say something to him, in a nice way. I had a similar incident with a young lady. She is FAST and would skate really close to me it was unnerving. I said something to her after a session, basically how unsettling it was and how much I appreciated seeing her skate so beautifully but my nerves were shot. She was literally inches from me. She really was unaware. After that, she would holler "excuse me" in advance so I would know she was near, and if she was working on a particular pattern, she would let me know (especially if we were in lesson in an area). No hard feelings at all over the whole thing. Speak to him but let him know how nerve-wracking it is for you.

__________________
Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

There used to be someone on a Coffee Club session who did that all the time. Because I'm on staff, I heard a lot of the concern from the other skaters, who were much lower level.

Her coach talked to her a few times, but she was just stubborn about where she HAD to place each and every jump. She couldn't do her double toe loop unless it cut straight through the center, down the middle. Which screwed anyone using the center for spins. I'm mean, so whenever she cut me off, I just got in the way of her dance patterns later on. Twice for each time she cut me off. No effect - she was just clueless - but I felt better, lol.

She moved out of the area, which solved the problem.

__________________

LOL! That's pretty much how I handle these types of situations too. I can't help it, I'm just a little bit passive aggressive

Londonicechamp: I suggest talking to the skater as well, but just be careful not to sound like you're attacking the skater. While his behaviors may seem dangerous, like others have said, he's probably in control of his skating and doesn't realize that he makes you and other skaters nervous.

__________________
Youtube Videos

Don't forget the male mind--sometimes "showing off" is an attempt to impress the ladies-- sort of like a male peacock on skates. When he landed the axel right by you, he may have been signalling, "Look! I"m virile and strong. I can do a manly axel!!" Accordingly, he would have no idea that he was actually frightening you. He may even be sweet on you.

Hi kayskate

This adult skater skates on public ice. Most of the times on Sunday evenings, it is okay, as the rink is pretty quiet, with a few little kids around.

However, on Friday night(s), it is different. This guy was skating on the public skating session, where there are also students like my practising right after the lesson. The only strange thing is that the rink threw the fast ice hockey skaters out, but not this guy out.

I may try talking to him, but will just have to find the right time.

londonicechamp

I get freaked out by people skating too close to me, but that's just because I can't see people until they are right next to me or in front of me and it is always startling to have people poof into existence. Its the hockey kids that drive me batty because they really don't pay attention. I can't tell you how many times I've seen them plow into people or a wall because they don't stop in time.

I will want to highlight that at where the OP is, there are only public ice. Figure skaters share with the public at all times.

I think I might know who the OP is talking about. Not on a personal level, but I used to see him skate too. By Singapore's standards, the "weaving in and out" is really very tame in comparison to what I'm experiencing in Shanghai! So I'm guessing it might be in much closer contact in UK, US, and Aus.

So OP, talk to the skater. You don't have to bring in the management on this. I'm guessing he can be more aware if you bring it up.

Now though, snotty skaters (especially little kids out of peripheral sight ) who just don't care about safety is another thing altogether!

I agree with what most have said-first, ask him his name, and speak to him civily.

However, document the fact you spoke to him, including his name (even if he won't/doesn't give you his full name, it's ok) and a physical description of him, i.e. approx height, hair color, color of outfit, date/session time on the ice, elements he executed close, i..e Axel, etc. If possible, take a pic of him cutting through the kids.

If he continues to disregard your request, keep documenting. Take it up with management, and give them a copy of your documentation, noting on it that you gave it to a specific fully-named person. Now it's on record.

He could claim since "he paid his admission he's entitled to do anything he wants" but not at the safety of others, including zooming through little kids. He should have better sense than that.

Your rink should care about the well-being of all skaters, regardless of whether or not they are regulars. If you document, submit it to management and they don't rectify the 'problem', he causes an accident either against you, or someone else-your documentation could turn into a Legal Instrument against the rink, to be evidence in court.

If management's smart, they'll look into this Now. Before someone ends up in ER.

I am biased against you. I love the ability to go to public sessions and practice what I want, and rarely skate at rinks where that isn't possible.

I agree that what seems unsafe to some is often pretty safe, if the person is in control. People who are novices and are out of control (e.g., can't stop) are probably more of a hazard to others.

If talking to him doesn't help, talk to other skaters there. If they agree that what he is doing is unsafe, getting a bunch of them together is more likely to make an impression on him, and if that doesn't work, on management, than one person. If they don't agree with you, maybe you are being overcautious.

__________________
Mitch Grunes ModifyingBoots FallingGently HomePage

Since this prob is occurring on a crowded public, find out if the rink has rules. Usually rules are posted. Usually no FS skills or certain FS skills are not allowed on publics. Problem is rules may not be enforced or are only enforced sometimes. An empty public is different from a crowded one. A skate guard will often approach someone and ask them not to do certain things if the rink is crowded.

Kay

__________________
Visit my figure skating journal
http://www.skatejournal.com/

I agree with you.

Hi Kay, the rink has only public sessions. Figure, hockey and recreational skaters all share the same ice, as is common in Asia. The same rules from other areas where there are separate FS sessions do not apply. =)

My kid is a pretty powerful skater, and occasionally has to skate on "ticket ice" which is an all-level FS session.

One mother was panicking and going on about the "dangerous" skater when he was setting up and landing his axel and his other jumps, and doing his footwork and stroking (not to mention the flying camel ).

One of the other parents turned to her and told her to not worry, as, at that level, the skaters are very aware, controlled and much safer than an inexperienced skater who doesn't have as much control or ability to get out of a difficult situation. With neat timing, my kid had to abort an axel and stop cold as another skater crossed into his path - while a slowly moving skater collided with another and caused both to fall, as the less-experienced skater simply couldn't stop and wasn't as aware of the ice dynamics. It seemed to reinforce the discussion.

HOWEVER: I will add this: we also make sure that he is polite and respectful to other skaters, and that he recognizes how "scary" a big guy landing big jumps can be. He is very careful not to unnerve other skaters, particularly kids. As a child, he crossed the path of pairs skater in a lift, and nearly caused an accident. Instead of being yelled at as he expected (he was very very upset at himself), he got a (huge) and comforting arm around his shoulder from the guy, who reassured him that everyone makes mistakes, but, to be sure to pay attention to avoid accidents.

It's a two-way road. Older, stronger skaters need to respect and understand younger/less experienced skaters, and also teach good on-ice behaviour. Modelling, positive reinforcement, and simply respecting everyone makes it safer ...

I'm not sure there is a "usually". Every rink has it's own policies.

Of the 45 or so rinks in the metro DC area, I only know of 1 that has rules explicitly forbidding FS moves, though there may be a couple others. The better skaters, which includes most of the repeat customers, mostly stay away from rinks with restrictive rules.

But yes, everyone has to understand that rinks are shared resources. We have to try to make sure no one feels threatened. We must recognize that slow skaters who are still struggling for control can feel threatened if someone else is moving much faster, and skates close by, because the slow struggling skaters know they can't do anything if the fast skater collides with them.

On crowded freestyle sessions I am the slow struggling skater out of control. My reflexes simply aren't fast enough, and I don't know the skating sequences well enough, to predict what the other skaters are going to do. I learned long ago that less crowded public sessions are a lot safer, and stopped attending freestyles. There is a rink near me that sticks up to 30 skaters onto mixed level freestyle sessions. That's scary. I only skated one of those once.

I have known skaters who really loved crowded publics. They see them as obstacle courses, and delight in skating very fast around the slow moving skaters. I suspect some of the slow skaters don't enjoy playing the role of semi-stationary obstacle.

Many little hockey kids take the obstacle course approach to public sessions too.

It's kind of hard for us who arn't at the O.P.'s rink to guess what is going on without being there.

I saw an accident a few days ago on a public session. Some coaches and rink staff were tossing a Nerf football around on the ice, just playing around. Maybe they were trying to create a routine for a rink ice show? Whatever. The football went onto the ice. A bunch of rambunctious little hockey kids veered towards the ball to play with it. In the confused melee, one of the little hockey kids, who wasn't wearing a helmet, fell and hit his head on the ice, and started bleeding. I'm not sure who was at fault. The people tossing the Nerf football? The group of rambunctious kids? The injured hockey kid himself (and his parents) for playing with other little hockey kids while not wearing adequate safety gear? Probably some combination of the above.

Whatever.

I look at crowded sessions as being similar to chemical reaction rates. You see a lot more molecular collisions, and therefore chemical reactions, as the density of molecules (# of molecules or skaters per unit space) goes up. To a first approximation, the collision and reaction rates at relatively low densities are proportional to the square of the density - because you have a cross section (reaction area) of one molecular species (e.g., slow skaters) proportional to the density hitting a cross section of another molecular species (e.g., fast skaters). It gets even worse as the density increases so much there is not much extra space between molecules, so they always collide. And having extra speed, if some of the molecules (skaters) are moving very fast, makes the collisions much more effective.

I notice relatively uncrowded rinks might see an accident once a month or so, while some crowded rinks have one or more accidents every session. If the O.P. has the option of moving to a less crowded session, it may be more fun for her.

Viewed as an abstract mathematical problem, skating collisions are actually rather interesting. I've been thinking of creating a video game.

__________________
Mitch Grunes ModifyingBoots FallingGently HomePage

Off topic but SERIOUSLY? There are 45 rinks in the DC metro area? How big of an area are you talking about? That's an insane concentration of rinks.

As for rules on publics- our rink has none, flying camels, triple jumps, and backward spirals are just fine. I've seen quite a few of both. So is skating in all directions through the middle of the rink. And it's those skaters, not the big jumpers who I'm more scared of.

We have no rink guards. I suppose you could go complain in the office. I have no idea what they would do.

__________________
-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

Anything within a 3-hour drive? And even that might be pushing it.

I know of 5 rinks in the No. VA "DC area" and 4 in MD. There are 2 rinks a little further north in MD that could be considered "DC area" if you use a broad definition. There are 3 in the Baltimore area - the northernmost rink is probably close to 2 hours from the center of DC.

I never go to public sessions, so I have no idea about the rules on those. But no matter what the rules, rink guards generally don't pay attention to anything and if it's crowded, you can forget about practicing anything. I'd rather pay extra for FS sessions and get something done. I don't mind the 'fast' kids, as long as they're paying attention (unfortunately, there are a few skaters that purposely get in people's way b/c it somehow makes them feel important or something ). It's the lower-level, new to FS kids that are the biggest hazards, IMO, b/c they just don't look.

__________________
Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

Skittl1321, to follow you O.T. I am talking about within about a hundred mile radius or so of D.C. - zoom into the dense area of http://mgrunes.com/dcicerinksmap.html. Boston and Detroit have way more rinks, and some arctic climate places are all skateable lake and pond. So D.C. isn't all that special.

I would love your rink. Rink guards just get in the way. They each create their own rules, and it only takes being told to stop what they are doing once to push many long-time repeat customers away. My favorite rink uses guards only when sessions are crowded.

Debbie S., you are welcome to look at that page and see if you can find more Northern Virginia rinks, but that area has so much traffic it is hard to go more than a few miles. Northern Virginia roads are very similar to the most crowded public sessions! Plus it's hard to keep track of which rinks are still open. I don't maintain that page as well as I should. And some rinks are outdoors and seasonal. Call ahead to make sure the rink is open. There are a couple rinks you can reach by Metro.

__________________
Mitch Grunes ModifyingBoots FallingGently HomePage

That's true, but unlike molecules, individual skaters can consciously choose to adjust their behavior depending on the density. There are skills an advanced skater can choose to practice with 2 or 20 skaters on the ice that they wouldn't dare attempt with 200. And thus those skaters would rarely choose to skate on a crowded public session in the first place.

And that same skater might have more close calls with only 2 skaters on the ice than with 20, because she may be skating as if there is no one else to watch out for, whereas on a moderately full freestyle she would be paying more attention.

But the total number of close calls or actual collisions would indeed be higher with a higher total number of skaters.

Exactly what part of my post makes you think I am looking for rinks in No. VA??? I was responding to Skittl's post on how there could be 45 rinks in the DC area? And there aren't. Your list is outdated and wrong in many places. I also see several rinks (some no longer in existence) listed 2 or 3 times. And your definition of "rink" is interesting - I'm not sure the Verizon Center or other arenas offer skating sessions.

And I don't think anyone would consider 100 miles to still be 'in the area'.

Maybe you should just stop making bizarre and ridiculous statements (on this topic and others)?

__________________
Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

We are drifting far off topic. Some of your criticisms are fair.

The "45 or so" count was without duplicates (duplicates occur because new maangement often changes rink names). A few are closed, as listed on the corresponding text page at http://mgrunes.com/dcicerinks.html, which you reach if you click on any of the listings.

I hesitate to remove closed rinks altogether for a few years, because they sometimes re-open under new management. One has closed and re-opened several times. I always leave the ones that are merely closed for the Season - quite common in our climate.

Yes, several arenas are only rinks for special events - and are so listed, on that text page.

It is hard to update the map page along with the text page, especially the links, because of the way Google Maps is designed. But Google Maps interface is free, so I use it.

100 miles is a very far distance for people who live in areas with traffic jams, especially in rush hour. But for a variety of reasons, competitive skaters often drive further.

What can I say? It's a non-professional page, at least for now. Not worth the effort of making it perfect. I maintained it better when my schedule forced me to use the more distant rinks.

__________________
Mitch Grunes ModifyingBoots FallingGently HomePage

To get back on topic: I actually don't agree that you should confront this guy yourself. I see no reason to possibly create animosity and/or uncomfortable situations with a guy that it sounds like you have to see regularly, when there are rink staff who get paid to uphold the rules/make sure the ice is safe. Tell them about it, let them observe a couple times, and then let them do their jobs and take care of it.

I mean, it's possible he'll say "oh, okay, I had no idea" and that'll be the end of it. Or he might get pissed and start an altercation, or decide to get back at you in some way, or just downright act like a jerk every time he sees you until pretty soon you dread seeing him.