Older Skaters and limitations.

[flo]

Crayon - well said! And Kristin, I think you brought up a very important point of balance. I'ts vital to a healthy skating "career" on and off the ice. I'm sure there's a research study in this somewhere - now for funding.........

[kateskate]

If the competitive personalities get their fun from winning that's great for them but don't diss the rest of us who are just as serious about our skating but for whom winning isnt everything. In fact speaking from experience, those for whom winning is all, can be very sore losers when one of us 'less serious' skaters beats them in competition!:D

I agree with what you said but mainly that bit

There is a girl I compete against quite often who doesn't talk to me if I beat her! I find that quite funny. And I know someone else who is in a bad mood for days and threatens to give up skating if someone beats her in a competition who she considers to be 'worse' than her.

I skate for fun but I take it seriously. I like taking it seriously. Messing about on the ice is not what I consider to be fun.

[Isk8NYC]

Flo - Check out (sorry guys) the Women's Sports Foundation (http://www.womenssportsfoundation.org/cgi-bin/iowa/funding/index.html) for research grants. I'll help out if you're serious about getting a project going.

[Isk8NYC]

I skate for fun but I take it seriously. I like taking it seriously. Messing about on the ice is not what I consider to be fun.I like "messing about on the ice" - it breaks the tension when you're frustrated with your practice. Our little clique of adult skaters used to have "camel offs" (they usually were off) and do hand-held dual spins until we dropped. It was fun and kept people from taking things too seriously. Maybe that's why so many of us still skate 20+ years later!

When I competed as a 20-24 year old, I also took it seriously and practiced hard, competed harder. I had one main competitor that I practiced with regularly. She was a nice person and we liked hanging out and skating together as well as going to clubs and diners. In competitions, I usually placed higher than her - I was a stronger, faster skater, which is a distinct advantage. (Note: I didn't say I was "better" - just stronger/faster.;) ) She was always, always gracious, even when she was disappointed with her results.

I remember one competition where she really dug in and practiced extra-hard beforehand to be at her best. The results were incredibly close; we both skated a clean program, but I won and she took silver by less than one point. (How do judges do it? I hate judging comps.)

I was disappointed because I knew how much more winning would have meant to HER. Not that I would "throw" the competition - I'm not that subtle; I'd get caught! LOL I wanted to swap medals with her (she wouldn't let me) because I really felt she had worked harder beforehand and deserved a gold in recognition of that effort.

We were friends for years until we both moved away and lost track of each other. Short-time priorities aside, family and friendships should always come first before any sport, hobby or endeavour.

[kateskate]

Ah, but isn't that what makes things fun for us Type A personalities? ;)

Personally, I love chucking myself in at the deep end. However, I've never done it for a sport before - it's always been academic - so while my brain's used to steep learning curves, my body isn't. If I hammer away at a move, I get tired and the practice stops being productive. On balance, I prefer to take a break from it and not injure myself, than spend 6+ weeks off the ice and have to regain the skills.

Funnily enough most of my friends who started skating late are academic types. Taking myself for example, I was always told I had appalling hand/eye/ball coordination in primary school. I was good at swimming but that was it. I think skating and the discipline required for it does tend to attract academic types. Just a speculation.

I always say I would never have stuck at skating if I had started younger as I would have been no good, slow to progress and probably wouldn't have had the determination and tenacity to continue. That is the one thing I think is better about older skaters - not saying the kids have it easy but its more of a conscious decision and a battle with time and finances as an adult. Most adult skaters exceed expectations and I see a lot of kids who never reach their potential.

Just my opinion...

[kateskate]

I like "messing about on the ice" - it breaks the tension when you're frustrated with your practice.
When I say messing about I should have clarified by saying playing and not using all my practice time properly. I do have 'fun' sessions where but I don't 'play' at skating. Everyone needs a break - but messing about is the break rather than messing about being the norm.

I don't think I'm being clear...

[BatikatII]

There is a girl I compete against quite often who doesn't talk to me if I beat her! I find that quite funny. And I know someone else who is in a bad mood for days and threatens to give up skating if someone beats her in a competition who she considers to be 'worse' than her.



I can relate to that since I skated for a few years with someone I thought was a good friend. She was - right up until the day I beat her in a competition for which she had trained hard and I had only decided to enter on a whim about 3 weeks before hand.

I was thrilled I had won my first medal (previously she'd always beaten me) but slightly annoyed that everyone kept telling me I shouldn't look too happy about it as X would be upset.8O

As for X - well she didn't speak to me for a year!

That's when I realised that to her I wasn't ever really a friend - merely a stooge.

I choose my friends more carefully now!

If you dont' win there's no harm being upset that you didn't skate better as it can spur you on to skate better next time but you can't blame the other skater for winning!

[kateskate]

If you dont' win there's no harm being upset that you didn't skate better as it can spur you on to skate better next time but you can't blame the other skater for winning!

Exactly. Too many people want to take away other people's achievements rather than try to better themselves.

Adults can sometimes be very sore losers - but then so can kids I guess.

[doubletoe]

Absolutely nothing! All of the other adult skaters I know (except one) have that attitude.

I think it tends to be us "Type A" personalities who have to take an enjoyable passtime and make it a life-or-death struggle to triumph mind over body - LOL!

I know it drives my coach crazy - she just doesn't understand that I push myself so bloody hard simply because I ENJOY pushing myself hard. She says I need to take it easy on myself - does that slow me down? No. She says it takes time to learn some moves - does that make me any less determined to "get" that move NOW? No.

Different personalities have different needs and desires. I happen to be DRIVEN! - but that's just me and I certainly wouldn't want to push somebody else like I push myself!

Hey, I resemble that remark, LOL! I think there is a difference between "having fun" and "feeling good." "Having fun" is instant gratification and "feeling good" is more often delayed gratification, or being proud of yourself for working hard, regardless of whether the payoff has come yet. But they are both forms of gratification and I think most of us need both to some extent. When I skate just for fun (which I must admit I haven't done for awhile), it can feel good, and it can remind me why I chose this sport in the first place. When I skate to master a set of skills, I can feel like crap half the time while practicing (like this morning, oh boy, did I suck and was I frustrated!), but there can be a big payoff when I skate my program for an audience and manage to complete those difficult elements I worked so hard at. That "feeling good" part stays with me for days, maybe longer. :)

[flo]

Isk8NYC -
Thanks - I'll look into it and would appreciate your help. All athletes want to know, what makes a winner (however that may be interpreted). I think the adult population provides a great opportunity to gain insight on sport psychology. We are in it (hopefully) because we want to be here, we have few delusions on Olympic glory, and we're serious if we call it just for fun or whatever the alternate may be. I'm also very interested in the line between passion and obsession. We do joke about it here quite a bit, but there is a difference.

[kateskate]

but there can be a big payoff when I skate my program for an audience and manage to complete those difficult elements I worked so hard at. That "feeling good" part stays with me for days, maybe longer. :)
I know what you mean. I'm still happy from last weekend - and I didn't come anywhere - I was 6th but I did my elements :D

[Isk8NYC]

When I say messing about I should have clarified by saying playing and not using all my practice time properly. I do have 'fun' sessions where but I don't 'play' at skating. Everyone needs a break - but messing about is the break rather than messing about being the norm.

I don't think I'm being clear...That's okay, you're clear, I understand and agree. (Most of our on-ice fooling around was on less-expensive public sessions, not freestyles. Freestyle ice is soooo expensive these days.)

I once wrote an article about sportsmanship that included a piece about the "hang out queens" who fool around more than they practice, but focused on how a more-serious skater can handle them without offending. The Editor wasn't interested, yet I still believe it's an important skill for all skaters to learn.

[kateskate]

That's okay, you're clear, I understand and agree. (Most of our on-ice fooling around was on less-expensive public sessions, not freestyles. Freestyle ice is soooo expensive these days.)

I once wrote an article about sportsmanship that included a piece about the "hang out queens" who fool around more than they practice, but focused on how a more-serious skater can handle them without offending. The Editor wasn't interested, yet I still believe it's an important skill for all skaters to learn.

Do you have a copy of the article still? I ignore the 'hang out queens' and continue to skate - I don't crash into them but I don't move out of their way when I'm practising. Their parents must be very well off for them to waste expensive ice time. :)

[jazzpants]

I like "messing about on the ice" - it breaks the tension when you're frustrated with your practice. Our little clique of adult skaters used to have "camel offs" (they usually were off) and do hand-held dual spins until we dropped. It was fun and kept people from taking things too seriously. Maybe that's why so many of us still skate 20+ years later!You sure you haven't been peeking into my Monday night session when my primary coach is done coaching and still has a bit of time? :P

My best sit spin moment actually came from one of those. Primary coach was doing a group "spin off." I went in and did my wimpy sit spin and came out. My coach comes to me afterwards to say "You know.. that's the best sit spin I've ever seen to date. Of course we'll have to work now to KEEP it!!! :twisted: "

I realized then that my primary coach is one of those rare skaters that when he skates, he feeds off energy and I push myself to get better off that energy. Of course, he gets the satisfaction of knowing I have the ability to do those spins and jumps... to use that as justification to torture me at future torture sessions with him!!! :twisted: So that's one of my main reasons for going in on those Monday night sessions, as crowded as it is...

But all the other days I practice, I'm very much on "serious practice mode." Even my weekend rink's public session...So I guess I'm a somewhere between an Type-A and B. LOL!!! :lol:

[skaternum]

The statement "I skate just for fun" is another way to dumb down the whole experience. A very bourgeoisie concept that exists in countries, such as America, where there is disposable income "just to have fun." In several cultures the idea of "fun" doesn't even exist as a component of a serious pursuit. So, if it's "just for fun" then it is "recreational" so why compete? Which is it? I think this lies at the very heart about why Adult Skating is not taken seriously by many constituencies surrounding the sport.

<snip>
However, I'm afraid if it is the main motivation is "having fun/making friends" then it's simply recreational. Well, maybe that's why the USFS has instituted the "recreational" catagory for adult skaters.Wow, this is really insulting. Who made you the arbiter of what constitutes real adult skating? I know this is a futile discussion with you, based on some of the discussions we've had on the Adult Pair Skating group, because you seem hell-bent on making adult skating the same thing as standard skating, and no amount of "discussion" is going to make an impact. However, I'd like to point out that what we need in adult skating in the USFSA is tolerance. We all need to accept the fact that we're different from the kids. And we all have our own reasons and motivation for skating. And THAT'S OKAY. We don't all have to conform to your idea of what constitutes recreational vs. competitive skating. Maybe you feel that way too, deep down, but it certainly doesn't come across in what you write. What you've written here appears insulting and condescending and intolerant.

Those who approach it primarily for "fun and making friends" are clearly recreational skaters, and nothing wrong with that at all, which is why the USFSA has made a "recreational" catagory for adult competitions.I've never seen a "recreational" category in any adult competition. Where have you seen this? And anyway, what is wrong with being a recreational skater? I define myself as a recreational skater, even though I've tested through silver, compete in local comps and Adult Nationals, and test some on the standard track. I'm recreational because this is a hobby and not the focus of my life. I don't work in order to pay for my skating (in spite of the joking about it we do here); I work because I have a brain and a career and a need to pay my mortgage.

[blue111moon]

Here, here!!!!

I skate to relieve stress, not to stress out over skating.

PS Nowhere in the USFigure Skating Adult Test and competition structure does it mention the word "recreational."

[TimDavidSkate]

deleted * its just what came to mind * :mrgreen:

[flo]

skaternum :bow:

"what we need in adult skating in the USFSA is tolerance" (and may I add maturity).

So THAT's what sets us apart from the standard track and the lower primates!!!!!

[Isk8NYC]

TimDavid - Not very tolerant. You know what to do, young man.
And don't post cats scratching at each other, either!

ETA: I understand. Thank you for editing.

[TimDavidSkate]

TimDavid - Not very tolerant. You know what to do, young man.
And don't post cats scratching at each other, either!

deleted * sorry, it just amazes me how she can find all sort of things to get upset about, but none the less she's still Miss Congeniality :yum:

[samba]

deleted * its just what came to mind * :mrgreen:Wow that's a serious spot you have on your chin Tim, hope it gets better soon :D :D :D (only joking)

[phoenix]

*** pokes at ol' Trigger's carcass to see if he's dead yet ***

•• poke •• poke •• poke ••

[jazzpants]

So, if it's "just for fun" then it is "recreational" so why compete? Which is it? I think this lies at the very heart about why Adult Skating is not taken seriously by many constituencies surrounding the sport.I can answer THAT one! :mrgreen:

You see...I see "competing" as part of my learning process -- to get out there to show my program off, I mean. In a way this past year's Sectionals was not about winning that Gold medal (though obviously if I did, it's "bonus!"), but about challenging myself to skate a clean and smooth program. I think of my competitors as just another group of people in a "spin-off" session. And I "suspect" that I probably got a better "prize" (my cheering section and meeting "the Quad King") than the Gold medalist. :mrgreen:

Besides, let's face it... chances are good that none of us are gonna end up going to Nationals or the Olympics. I think we adults should be secure enough about ourselves to know that skating and competing well ITSELF isn't gonna pay our bills. That's what our JOBS are for!!! (i.e. I don't want to take my skating pursuits TOO seriously!!!) In the end, we need to establish our "balance" of when to work hard on your skating and when to relax, do skate-offs and just have fun, so we don't end up burning ourselves out.

Skating is a language, just like any other language. If I were trying to learn to speak Chinese, but just doing it for a hoot, or to hang out around good food, and make new friends, I would never achieve fluency, because that takes hard work, a commitment, and level of seriousness. The gratification and fun is certainly a bi-product of this type of pursuit. However, I'm afraid if it is the main motivation is "having fun/making friends" then it's simply recreational. Well, maybe that's why the USFS has instituted the "recreational" catagory for adult skaters.Well, taking the analogy of learning Chinese to fluency (since I *AM* Chinese...) -- isn't the idea of learning how to speak a language is to learn to communicate with people and establish your network? And as a software engineer in Silicon Valley, your network (those same groups of people you establish by "making friends and having fun") can be just as important as your qualifications for the job!!! :mrgreen:

Same with skating... competition is often the experience you need to become a better skater -- thru the experience of preparing for a competition AND thru the friends you make who can help you to become an even better skater. If your objective is just to seriously compete and crush out your competitors, you may achieve your goal, but you'll find that gold medal is a very hollow one if you don't get the "fringe benefits" that comes with that "hardware."

ETA: Geez, I missed an inappropriate smiley from TimDavidSkate??? DRATS!!! :lol: (ISk8NYC, can I post FrankR's "beating a dead horse" smiley now???) :lol:

[NoVa Sk8r]

If your objective is just to seriously compete and crush out your competitors, you may achieve your goal, but you'll find that gold medal is a very hollow one if you don't get the "fridge benefits" that comes with that "hardware."LOL! Is the "fridge benefit" (as opposed to "fringe benefit") where the nips are properly refrigerated before being thrown to the competitor?! :mrgreen:

[TimDavidSkate]

Wow that's a serious spot you have on your chin Tim, hope it gets better soon :D :D :D (only joking)

I have a different masks every night, that one was the dead seaweed one

[jazzpants]

LOL! Is the "fridge benefit" (as opposed to "fringe benefit") where the nips are properly refrigerated before being thrown to the competitor?! :mrgreen:Oops! Must have had too much of those vodka nips there... :oops: *hic* ('Scuse me...) :mrgreen: :lol:

[flo]

Did someone say vodka???:yum: Have shaker will travel.

[Isk8NYC]

*** pokes at ol' Trigger's carcass to see if he's dead yet ***


•• poke •• poke •• poke ••
I agree, thanks for the poke!

I think we've reached an impasse, so I'm going to quietly close the door on this thread's story.
It was a very interesting thread until it got insulting.
Thank you all for contributing.