Hackensack - What to pack and other questions

[Scarlett]

Hello,

I am going to Hackensack for the first time. This is more first time traveling anywhere for skating and I am at an utter loss as to what to pack. Do people typically bring 2 outfits for each day at camp...One for on-ice and one for off-ice or wear the same thing for both on and off-ice activities? How is the food situation? Is the rink typically cold?

Any help would be greatly appreciated :)

TIA

[FrankR]

Hi Tia,

I look forward to seeing you! The Ice House is my home rink and I'll be attending the camp as well as working registration tomorrow afternoon and Saturday morning. Regarding your questions, although you certainly can bring two outfits per day if you'd like, it's not necessary. The most important thing is to be comfortable both on and off the ice. Whatever you normally wear to practice should be just fine.

The Ice House is a four sheet facility. The on-ice temperature tends to decrease from Rink 1 as you go down to Rink 4. At this point I'm not sure if we'll be on rinks 3 or 4 yet but these two rinks are noticably colder than rinks 1 and 2. (At least it feels that way to me.) Regardless of which sheet of ice I'm on when I skate at the Ice House, I typically wear a sweater or warm-up jacket that I can just unzip and take off if I get warm and then I just skate in a long or short sleeve t-shirt depending on how I feel.

I am not sure if you signed up for the buffet lunch on both days or not. If you did not, there is a snack bar at the Ice House that serves breakfast and lunch. In addition there are a number of restaurants and diners in the area that are within a five to ten minute drive of the rink. (Burger King, McDonalds, Cheesecake Factory, etc.)

If you have any other questions please feel free to shoot me a PM or just tap me on the shoulder over the weekend if you need anything. :)

Take care and I look forward to meeting you.

Frank

[sk8pics]

I went to the Hackensack camp a couple of years ago and found the rinks very cold. Especially on Sunday morning since it was pretty early. BTW, try hard to make it to your first Sunday session. When I was there, only about half the group showed up (at 8 am!) and as a result it was really great for those of us that did. Cold, but great.

I wore the same clothes for the on- and off-ice work, leggings with a T-shirt or long sleeved shirt and one or two fleece. Or a t-shirt with a warmer long sleeved shirt and a fleece. You will do some standing around watching, so that's why you may want to go with layers and when you get warm, you can always take one layer off.

I think I bought the food they had arranged for for the camp both days and it was okay. It was a hot meal, but I can't recall exactly what it was. There is a snack bar there where you can get something else, too. I also tend to bring some fruit and/or granola bars to snack on. You probably won't be able to run out to get something to eat somewhere else (due to time and fatigue!) but you should be able to find something to eat at the rink.

I also bring extra of the essentials when I travel for skating: extra tissues, extra knee-highs, extra pair of leggings or tights (depending on whether I'm wearing dresses or leggings), extra pair of gloves. And I have a bigger skate bag I use when I travel, since I'm hauling all this extra crap.

Have fun at the camp and let us know how it went!

[lovepairs]

Very cold rinks. Bring two separate outfits for each day for comfort, because you will be doing a lot of "cold sweating," and want something fresh for the next day. I've been known to change my top 1/2 way through the day for comfort, too. You'll have a blast--it is so much fun!

See everyone tomorrow! :P

[jazzpants]

I am not sure if you signed up for the buffet lunch on both days or not. If you did not, there is a snack bar at the Ice House that serves breakfast and lunch. In addition there are a number of restaurants and diners in the area that are within a five to ten minute drive of the rink. (Burger King, McDonalds, Cheesecake Factory, etc.)Foodie Alert: I highly recommend "White Manna (http://www.ahamburgertoday.com/archives/2005/06/white_manna_a_n.php)" Hamburgers! It's right across the McDonald's on River St (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=358+River+Street,+Hackensack+NJ&spn=0.020111,0.045680&hl=en). With grilled onions...their burgers are DA BOMB!!! :yum: 8-) :lol:

Can't wait to go back to Hackensack again this Christmas for more "White Manna" burgers!!! :yum:

[miraclegro]

Okay, so i'm the clueless one...where is Hackensack?

[Kelli]

I'm worried about driving out to NJ tomorrow from the City... something about the GWB on a Friday before a long weekend sounds like a really bad idea. What happens tomorrow (I don't have a private lesson planned), and is it critical to be there? I can make the drive if I have to, and may do it in any case to figure out where the rink is, but it's not really going to be a fun trip tomorrow.

[jazzpants]

Okay, so i'm the clueless one...where is Hackensack?Hackensack is in New Jersey. (Or "Jersey" as I was told was the proper term to say amongst the locals...not sure if that's really true though...) :P It's about almost an hour from New York City to there (http://maps.yahoo.com/dd_result?newaddr=&taddr=&csz=New+York%2C+NY&country=us&tcsz=Hackensack%2C+NJ&tcountry=us). (Allowing for traffic...)

[NoVa Sk8r]

It's "Joisey!"
And methinks it's not an hour, unless you're traveling from Long Island. (Heck, last year and the year before, I drove from my home town in upper Westchester County, and it took only an hour.)

The GWB can be a nightmare (tune to 1010AM for those traffic updates).

You might want to consider driving north and crossing the Hudson at the Tappan Zee--though I can imagine that getting there mihgt not exactly be a picnic either. But it's nice to have options.

Have fun, everyone, at the camp. Looking forward to hearing about your ventures and experiences. ...

[jazzpants]

It's "Joisey!"HA!!! I expected a former "Neu Yawker" to respond!!! :twisted:

And methinks it's not an hour, unless you're traveling form Long Island. (Heck, last year and the year before, I drove from my home town in upper Westchester County, and it took only an hour.)
Re: Traveling from LI vs Westchester to Hackensack: the average speed of the person driving from Westchester would be higher since, once you are in Westchester, all you would be thinking about is how to leave it as fast as possible. :twisted: :P

[Terri C]

Any reports?

[2salch0w]

Just back from the camp and it seemed like everyone had a great time. Smaller this year - only about 70 skaters, but I think that is because of the holiday weekend. I was on the pairs track and there were only 3 teams, so we got a lot of attention. Marcy Hinzman and Aaron Parchem did a great job with us, and we also had some good ballet and stretch classes from Christine. For us pairs, it was a packed agenda and we all got a lot out of it.

Tim

[Kelli]

Very fun, VERY sore today. I was in the competitive singles track, and my biggest complaint was that my group was too big. It really limited the amount of individual feedback we got. Also, I think the expectation from the way the groups were assigned was that everyone in group 1 had a strong flip and lutz, and that wasn't really the case.

Craig was the coach who challenged me the most during his toe jump and jump combination class (attempting my first double toe in a long time, landing a few axel-toes and axel-loops), and I really appreciated that. Emily taught combo jumps with him and was a sweetheart. She comiserated with me about how it's not fair to land the hard jump and fall on the easy one after I fell on the single toe part of an axel-toe loop.

Edward's moves seminar was really good, and though it wasn't anything new to hear, it always helps me to have everything spelled out completely. He was really nice and worked with three of us on junior moves during the open session at the end. I'll be the first to admit that my moves are weak, but everything he said reinforced exactly what my coaches say. While not really that shocking (don't stick your butt out is kind of a universal comment!), it's nice to have another set of (very well-regarded) eyes to know that my coaches and I are on the right track. His spin class was really challenging because he made us do every spin from the t position, which just highlights every (and there are many) weaknesses in your technique.

Christine did a ballet class with us on Saturday and stretch on Sunday. Because of the class size, there was no room to use the barre, so we did barre without the barre, which just makes everything harder! Stretch was first thing Sunday morning, and thank god for it, because most of us were really sore from Saturday!

Vakhtang led an off-ice jump class that focused more on plyometric drills for explosiveness than jump rotation, which I really liked. I felt that he could have pushed us a bit harder in the on ice class. He was funny and was joking around with Edward during the small junior moves class. He's got incredible edges!

Suzana taught combination spins and worked really well with our large group. Her advice was helpful, and I really liked her teaching style. She also taught choreography and music interpretation, the latter with Christine. I'm someone who has a lot of difficulty stringing together even the most basic moves, so those classes were mentally challenging but fun.

Peter and Naomi taught stroking to both competitive groups combined, and I'm not going to complain about standing around waiting when it means watching Peter! But the group was pretty big, although they kept it moving really well. I think the level range was a big challenge in that class as well.

I think that covers all of our classes. I'm being nitpicky about some of them, but only because the overall experience was great! I liked the intimacy of a small camp, but would have liked to have more of a chance to meet the ice dancers and recreational track singles skaters. I would definitely go back, and hopefully this year's small size won't mean anything bad for camp in future years.

[Scarlett]

I had an absolute ball. This was my first time traveling for skating or attending a skating seminar of any type so I was really nervous but everyone was sooo friendly and it was nice to see other adult skaters.
I was in the recreational singles track and it was a good fit for me. We were all at about the same level and there were other rotationally challenged skaters there (yeah!) so for the breakdown:

The first day we worked on edge jumps and toe jumps first thing in the morning. Vahtung looked at our group and said "ok let's see your axel". The silence was deafening. He then came back to reality and we worked on the waltz, salchow, and loop. At the end of every mini-jump session we had to do one jump in front of the group which I found very nerve racking. I have never been put on the spot to skate in front of other people. I quickly got over it. Toe jumps with Craig was a lot of fun and for the rest of the day we did spins, ballet, off-ice training, and choreography. I was thoroughly pooped by the end of the day and instead of going into NYC as planned, I went back to the hotel and slept.

On day 2, we crammed in combo jumps, stretching, music interpretation, stroking, and moves. The highlight of the day though was the open session at the end. The competitive folks were on rink one so it was just the recreational skaters one rink 2 and most of us were too tired to do anything. The few of us who stayed to practice were basically just getting private lessons. I worked on loops with Marcy Hinzmann and Edward attempted to fix my 3 turn pattern. The best part though is when I was just playing around trying to incorporate the tips Marcy gave me into my pathetic loop attempts I see Emily skating toward me. She said I looked like I was having fun and could she work with me (like I was going to say no 8O ) on the loop some more (she spent time trying to fix it that morning). I had a fabulous time and will definitely be back next year.

Oh and Jazzpants, I tried White Manna burgers. There are fabulous even though I did get a look when I said no to the pickles. I hate them and apparently that is a crime in NJ.

[jazzpants]

I have taken a private lesson with Edward before... BOY IS HE SCARY STRICT!!! 8O (But... I'm used to and like strict!!! ;) )

Oh and Jazzpants, I tried White Manna burgers. There are fabulous even though I did get a look when I said no to the pickles. I hate them and apparently that is a crime in NJ.LOL!!! Yeah, I just pick the pickles out when they're not lookin' ;) (I hate pickles too!!!)

Mmmm...nothing like White Manna burgers to totally blow your diet on!!! :twisted: :yum:

[FallDownGoBoom]

Wellllll ... I was just crushed. I went home halfway through the first ice session for recreational singles, and I didn't come back.

I'm still getting the hang of three-turns and mohawks, and when the instructor asked to see our axels, toe loops and salchows, I thought he was joking. I hadn't done so much as a waltz jump. When the crowd started to run through their jumps, I realized that this camp -- despite what was advertised -- was no place for a beginner. I didn't want to waste the instructor's time and I felt that I would endanger all the other skaters, who clearly knew what they were doing. So that was it for me.

Everyone else seemed to be having a terrific time. It seemed to be a worthwhile and fun program. I was inspired by so many women, of all ages, shapes and sizes, trying to do their best. I wouldn't hesitate to return next year, so long as I have the skills. And I'll definitely spread the word around my home ice -- the more adults, the better!

:cry:

[Debbie S]

I realized that this camp -- despite what was advertised -- was no place for a beginner.Sorry to hear it didn't go as you had hoped. For the money you spent, I would have stayed and tried to just get something out of the off-ice stuff and the choreo classes, and just listen to the jump stuff for future reference.

I think this highlights a big problem with the way the camp is set up and advertised. My decision not to go was mostly based on finances, but a small part of it was my confusion over which track to sign up for. The descriptions really didn't say a lot. I have competed for over 2 years, but I'm still officially Pre-Bronze and my hardest jump is the loop. I felt like the competitive track was most suited to my approach to skating and my goals, but I figured everybody else there would have all their singles (and from Kelli's post, I see that I was right) and I worried that the recreational track would be for real beginners and that I might be bored. It sounds like that might have been the best place for me, although I'd be curious if any "competitive" skaters did that track and what they thought of it.

I hope that in future years, the organizers clearly describe what skills are needed/found in each track and make recommendations for registration. The camp is way too expensive (even the recreational track) for skaters to waste their time and money.

And not to sound snippy, but who/what gave the instructors the idea that recreational skaters would be able to do an axel? 8O :roll: If I had an axel, even if I never competed, I wouldn't sign up for a "recreational" track. Don't the organizers know what various adult skating levels mean as far as skills?

[cecealias]

Not to be offensive, but there are indeed some adult skaters out there that are recreational and have axels, doubles etc and don't compete. There are some that even have never competed!

It all depends on each individual's goals and purposes in skating. Some people do it for fun. Competing isn't for everyone.

Back in the day, a lot of the women elites did triples for FUN. Brian Boitano could even do a quadruple toe-loop. However none of these people competed with those jumps.

[Debbie S]

Not to be offensive, but there are indeed some adult skaters out there that are recreational and have axels, doubles etc and don't compete. There are some that even have never competed! I'm sure there are, but as I said, if I had an axel and were going to do this camp, I would sign up for the competitive track, even if I didn't compete, b/c the way the tracks were framed, it would seem that the competitive track was for those with more advanced skills.

The point I was trying to make was that since those who signed up for the recreational track were likely at a fairly low level in FS (based on the (little) info given about the tracks), it would have made more sense to at least ask the participants what jumps they could do before expecting them to do an axel - it sounds to me like the axel was part of that particular jump class for both tracks...but shouldn't an adjustment be made depending on the track?

Which goes back to my previous post - much more description about the tracks and skill level they are catering to is needed.

[jazzpants]

Not to be offensive, but there are indeed some adult skaters out there that are recreational and have axels, doubles etc and don't compete. There are some that even have never competed! I know at least two skaters like that, so I can understand. I think the problem is that based on what I've read on the brochure,

Who knows... I'm not that big on skating camps myself, based on my experience with the Kathy Casey seminar that I've been to a few years back. If I was going there just to meet celebs, that's one thing. But my intention is to learn how to skate! And looking at the different tracks, I don't know about you, but even the recreational track is ....ummm... very physically intensive session there!!! 8O :P

And call me greedy, but I want the coaches ALL to myself to learn what *I* want to learn!!! LOL!!!! :twisted: :lol: :P

FallDownGoBoom: I'm sad that you didn't have a good time. Did you talk with Craig M about this... or you just "up and left?" If you had just "up and left", it's a shame, b/c at least if you talked with Craig M about it you two would have worked out something to get to the point where at least you get some cool skating tips and do the off-ice training at least. As of now, there's no way the organizers can deal with your particular situation, b/c they didn't know there was an issue. And they're not mind-readers (and who knows if they're reading skatingforum.com :P ) Get my drift?

[FrankR]

I'm sure there are, but as I said, if I had an axel and were going to do this camp, I would sign up for the competitive track, even if I didn't compete, b/c the way the tracks were framed, it would seem that the competitive track was for those with more advanced skills.

The point I was trying to make was that since those who signed up for the recreational track were likely at a fairly low level in FS (based on the (little) info given about the tracks), it would have made more sense to at least ask the participants what jumps they could do before expecting them to do an axel - it sounds to me like the axel was part of that particular jump class for both tracks...but shouldn't an adjustment be made depending on the track?

Which goes back to my previous post - much more description about the tracks and skill level they are catering to is needed.

I understand this point. However, I think it's important to note that there is no difference in a coach asking "Can you do an axel?" and a coach saying "Please do an axel." and a student responding "I haven't worked on axels yet." I can assure you that even with the higher level competitive group, although we were encouraged to push ourselves and attempt new elements even if we weren't completely comfortable with them, nobody was "expected" to deliver any particular element. For example, since the Ice House is my home rink, Craig is pretty familiar with my skating and he knows I've toyed with double jumps from time to time. He asked me to try a double sal. I explained to him that I am currently re-working this jump on the harness with another coach and that I would prefer to not try this jump on my own yet since I am having technical issues with it. However, I did propose something else to work on and he agreed. No harm. No foul.

Although I do think that the application packet could be better constructed (and I'd love to help with this and other adminstrative tasks regarding the camp and will tell Craig so when I see him this week), I don't think it's indispensible that a list of technical elements be included. First, it's impractical since technical ability will vary within a group based on enrollment from year to year. Secondly, nobody is forced to do anything they're not comfortable doing. Including a "list of elements" defeats that philosophy. Lastly, if a skater feels that they're better off in another group for whatever reason, they are more than welcome to speak to the staff and they will be moved into whatever group they feel is appropriate. Group assignments are made for logistical purposes (scheduling ice time, scheduling coaches, etc.). However, the staff recognizes that not every assignment will work out perfectly and skaters are encouraged to speak up with their concerns if they are not getting the most from their experience.

One final point: at the conclusion of the camp several of the club members who participated in the camp realized that there was no evaluation distributed this year. As a result, I'd like to ask any of the camp participants to PM me or e-mail me with any concerns, issues or suggestions they might have regarding the camp. I, in turn, will share this information with the club and staff at the Ice House.

It was great to meet everyone that attended the camp this weekend. My best wishes to all of you.

Take care,

Frank

[FallDownGoBoom]

FrankR, thanks for offering to take up concerns and suggestions.


The literature should be more specific: "Participants must have a familiarity with toe loop, salchow and axel and a desire to fine-tune them." If beginners can be accommodated, that should be clear: "Skaters who have not jumped will be instructed in cross-overs, edges, etc., and introduced to the waltz jump." When I registered, I had put far too much faith in the phrase, "This camp is for everyone."

The welcome packet should include a map of the facilities. I wandered quite some time before I found the ballet class.

Instructors should introduce themselves and say what they'll be working on. I might have stuck around if the coach had said he would divide us into, say, three groups based on ability. Also, organizers should make it clear when the schedule has changed. The first class for recreational singles, for instance, was to be choreography. Instead, it was jumps -- and that instantly threw me into a panic. My thinking was this: If I can't get through the first on-ice session, how will I get through the rest of the day?!

[FrankR]

FrankR, thanks for offering to take up concerns and suggestions.


The literature should be more specific: "Participants must have a familiarity with toe loop, salchow and axel and a desire to fine-tune them." If beginners can be accommodated, that should be clear: "Skaters who have not jumped will be instructed in cross-overs, edges, etc., and introduced to the waltz jump." When I registered, I had put far too much faith in the phrase, "This camp is for everyone."

The welcome packet should include a map of the facilities. I wandered quite some time before I found the ballet class.

Instructors should introduce themselves and say what they'll be working on. I might have stuck around if the coach had said he would divide us into, say, three groups based on ability. Also, organizers should make it clear when the schedule has changed. The first class for recreational singles, for instance, was to be choreography. Instead, it was jumps -- and that instantly threw me into a panic. My thinking was this: If I can't get through the first on-ice session, how will I get through the rest of the day?!

Hi,

I'm sorry you felt as you did and that you didn't enjoy your experience. As I said, I'll share how you felt with the staff and include your feedback. Hopefully you'll be willing to give it another shot and your expectations will then be met.

Take care,

Frank

[Emberchyld]

Wellllll ... I was just crushed. I went home halfway through the first ice session for recreational singles, and I didn't come back.

I'm still getting the hang of three-turns and mohawks, and when the instructor asked to see our axels, toe loops and salchows, I thought he was joking. I hadn't done so much as a waltz jump. When the crowd started to run through their jumps, I realized that this camp -- despite what was advertised -- was no place for a beginner. I didn't want to waste the instructor's time and I felt that I would endanger all the other skaters, who clearly knew what they were doing. So that was it for me.
:cry:


FallDownGoBoom, it's too bad that you didn't talk to Craig-- I was literally the lowest level skater there (4months of lts classes and no crossovers, much less jumps), and about half of my recreational singles group couldn't jump... so all of the coaches worked with us to do what we could do. During jumps, Craig divided us up and the non-jump people picked the skills we worked on-- Emily Hughes even helped me with backwards stroking (sad but true)!

I definitely would encourage adults of any level to take part in this-- I came away having learned so much and encouraged by all of the rest of you who were so much better than me (and tried to make me feel better by encouraging me!)

Next year, I'll be back-- with a jump and crossovers!

[lovepairs]

Naomi and Peter are now Pairskaters. And, that's all I have to say. :D

[FrankR]

Naomi and Peter are now Pairskaters. And, that's all I have to say. :D

8O 8O You guys CONVERTED them!! 8O 8O :lol: :lol:

[FallDownGoBoom]

Did I miss some sort of gathering in the morning where the organizers introduced themselves? I mean, I couldn't tell who was running the show.

[FrankR]

Did I miss some sort of gathering in the morning where the organizers introduced themselves? I mean, I couldn't tell who was running the show.

At 8am on Saturday morning, everyone gathered on the bleachers by Rink 2 and Craig fully introduced everyone and gave their background.

ETA: We also had registration on Friday from 2pm to 6pm and on Saturday from 7am to 8am. Did you pick up your folder? It contained a detailed schedule for your group. If you did not pick this up, it's possible that you rotated with the wrong group. That would explain why you ended up in a jump class when you should have been in a choreography class. If you were rotating with the wrong group it could also mean you took that jump class with the lower level competitive group which contained skaters that were working on flip and lutz. In which case, it would make sense for a coach to ask if anyone had an axel.

[FallDownGoBoom]

"At 8am on Saturday morning, everyone gathered on the bleachers by Rink 2 and Craig fully introduced everyone and gave their background."

Well, drat it all. I was there at exactly 8 and had no idea this was taking place. Cripes. I'm a wreck.

[2salch0w]

"At 8am on Saturday morning, everyone gathered on the bleachers by Rink 2 and Craig fully introduced everyone and gave their background."

Well, drat it all. I was there at exactly 8 and had no idea this was taking place. Cripes. I'm a wreck.


Oh man, I feel so bad for you. If you missed the intro and getting your registration materials, then no wonder you had no clue what was going on. And I'm sure you ended up in the wrong track based on what you've said. It must have been like being in an airport in a foreign country and just not knowing where to go.

I see you live really close to me, so if you ever want to get together for some instruction I'd be happy to pass on some things I've learned to you. I'm not affiliated w/ the camp at all, just an attendee like you, but I do have some experience teaching beginning adults up through the half jumps. Just bring me a cup of coffee and we'll be even. :) I'm just sad that you lost all that money.

Tim

[Debbie S]

Well, drat it all. I was there at exactly 8 and had no idea this was taking place. Cripes. I'm a wreck.Sounds like the rink/camp needs a "traffic coordinator" to make sure everyone knows what's going on and where to go. And lots of signs.

Since it now appears that maybe the expectations for the groups weren't as wacky as I thought, let me ask this: What would be the appropriate group for someone in my position (competes, but not all singles, but passed through Bronze MIF)? Would I have felt OK (not over my head) in the competitive track?

[FallDownGoBoom]

I definitely was in the recreational singles group. That much I got right. I followed a bunch of people who had the same registration packet.

The funny thing is, I'm not angry about the cost of the thing. Just disappointed because I had been looking forward to it so much. Sigh. Oops. The keyboard appears to be getting wet. What's that? Tears? ... Next year will be good, I'm sure. Sniff.

Thanks, Tim, for the offer. First I'm going to master the stoopid three-turns and mohwaks -- it's really time to get over that hump already -- and then I may be in touch.

[FrankR]

Since it now appears that maybe the expectations for the groups weren't as wacky as I thought, let me ask this: What would be the appropriate group for someone in my position (competes, but not all singles, but passed through Bronze MIF)? Would I have felt OK (not over my head) in the competitive track?

From what I recall, the lower level competitive group did have skaters who were in the midst of getting their flips and lutz jumps consistent and other skaters who just had waltz jumps, toe loops and salchows. I think you would have been fine in that group. However the only way to know for sure would be for you to come to next year's camp and try it out. ;)

Take care,

Frank

[FrankR]

I definitely was in the recreational singles group. That much I got right. I followed a bunch of people who had the same registration packet.


There were two recreational singles groups. Each of those groups was divided according to the criteria listed in the application (i.e. highest moves test passed, highest freestyle test passed, most difficult jump landed consistently). If I recall correctly, there were a few skaters in the higher level recreation groups that did list loop and possibly flips jumps as their most difficult jump landed consistently.

FDGB, did you pick up your own folder? Are you sure you were with the correct recreational group? I'm pretty sure that each group schedule was followed as listed in each of the folders. So, if you had a mix-up in your classes like you said you did (edge jumps instead of choreography) it might be possible that you were not in the correct group of the two recreational groups that were offered.

[lovepairs]

Totally CONVERTED! While all the dancers were doin the Cha Langa Kanga, Naomi and Peter were throwin death spirals out there!!! I told Naomi how to CONVERT on the FI Death Spiral (aka. Life Spiral), so YUPPERS, they are CONVERTED!!! :bow: GO NAOMI :bow: GO NAOMI :bow:

[lovepairs]

Falldowngoboom,

I feel so bad...you should have just come to the pair teams and we would have helped you out. You can always come to the pair teams for help...always...never forget that...just go to the pair teams.

I have a feeling that you ended up in the wrong level of rotation, too, because I saw one group working on very beginning stuff.

Honey, I think it's worth a try to write to Craig Maurizi, the director of Ice House, tell him what happened and ask if it is possible to be refunded. If he refunds you, come join us for the Adult Week in Lake Placid (last week in August) and we'll take care of you.

lovepairs

[Figureskates]

Falldowngoboom,

If he refunds you, come join us for the Adult Week in Lake Placid (last week in August) and we'll take care of you.

lovepairs

Absolutely! This will be my 7th August Adult week at Lake Placid. I also went to the June one this year as well.

I am really a semi-crappy figure skater but I always have a great time and am not intimidated at all. Please come and join the fun!

[lovepairs]

Thanks for giving the Adult Week a plug, FigureSkate!

While we are on the subject, we just need one or two more pair teams to make the first ever Adult Pair Track at the Lake Placid Adult Week work. It's a tremendous opportunity to study with the legendary Protopopovs. So, if there is a team out there who can attend, please come join us.

I might mention that I have a pairs lady at the bronze level who is dying to attend the Pairs Track at Lake Placid, but her partner can't go. Her pair partner was good enough to give her permission to attend with someone else in order to bring home the wisdom. So, if there is anyone out there who would like to partner with her and have a great experience, please contact me at: acooper19426@earthlink.net

[FallDownGoBoom]

The phrase "semi-crappy skater" sent me into a fit of giggles.

I love the concept of the adult camps: None of these punk kids (giggle) and definitely none of these punk kids' parents (non-giggle.).

[Kelli]

FallDownGoBoom - I'm sad that your experience wasn't what you wanted. But I totally admire any new skater ready to put themselves out there for an intense experience like this camp. Not to beat a dead horse, but are you sure you were with the right group? What color was your folder?

I don't wany anyone to read my post and think there might not be a place for them at this camp. I was in the highest competitive singles group, and there were only 3 of us landing Axels with any sort of consistency (and consistency is not a word one would normally use to describe my Axel). Most in my group were working on cleaning up and perfecting their lutz and flip. I think the other competitive group probably had skaters landing through a loop, but I'm not sure. From the little I saw of the recreational groups, there seemed to be a wide range of levels. I don't compete, but I called to ask for information, and I was told based on my level the competitive track would be a better fit for me. I was initially placed in the other competitive group, but I talked to Craig and he was more than accomodating about a group switch. I actually called them a few times because of a registration mix-up, and every time they were more than willing to answer questions or ask Craig for more information (doesn't mean they got it right, but they were always willing to ask!).

I think there was some confusion among some of the coaches about what to expect from each group. Someone here (can't remember who) commented about a coach coming in and asking for Axels, a jump not appropriate for their level. In my group there were a number of people definitely working on Axels, but the coach for that class seemed to assume that we weren't. Those of us with consistent (or something) Axels went ahead and did them anyway, but I think others would have welcomed the chance for feedback. Frank, you probably know who I'm talking about, so feel free to agree or disagree here.

I wonder if the smaller size affected the groupings this year. There were a few times I felt I could have been challenged more, and it sounds like a lot of people felt overwhelmed. With fewer skaters, they may have had to compress a wider range of levels together with not quite perfect results. But I've never been before, so I could be making things up.

My comments to pass along would be that, first of all, I had a great time! A map of the facilities would be helpful, as would nametags (and not crappy ones that you throw out after an hour, but good ones that we can wear for two days because I can't remember names). Our group was too large, and when an instructor would send us all out to try something, the results were scary. I'm already neurotic about jumping near people, and trying to set up for any jump on half ice with 16 people made me crazy. You can thank Craig personally for me for finally making a toe loop make sense! And as a much more general comment, I was incredibly impressed with the quality of the adult skaters who train primarily at the Ice House. I would stronly recommend that rink to any adult skater in the NY/NJ area.

[lovepairs]

Just to round off Kelli's post, I have to add that the Pairs Track was excellent this year compared to last year. There were a few mix ups with ice assignments: one being that about 28 free skaters came onto our ice (we were suppossed to have our own surface this year in order to do lifts) about half way through our session, while rink 3 was totally empty. I went up to Craig and asked him if we could move the pair teams to rink 3 and he was totally discombobulated with the schedule he had infront of him, couldn't figure it out and couldn't tell me what to do. As far as I was concerned, it was a no brainer, so the pairs moved to the empty ice to finish our session. The only other time we didn't have lift lanes available to us was when they put a "Dance" group on the ice with us during one of the final sessions on Sunday. We all had 1/2 ice, which I'm sure was frustrating to the Dancers as well (by the way, contrary to popular opinion dancers and pairs don't do well on the same surface together--every body thinks that we are all "teams" so we should be able to share the same ice--not true--pairs do much better with freestylers for obvious reasons if you give it a seconds thought.) So, the pairs stayed to one side and did Death Spirals. This is when Naoimi and Peter were CONVERTED! :P So, I guess it was worth it! ;)

All in all, it was so much better for the Pairs this year! We learned a lot from Marci and Aaron and had a great time! It was a wonderful experience!

With the very low attendence, do you think they will have it again next summer? I can't imagine that it was very profitable this time around. I might be mistaken, but about 3, or 4 years ago when I attended there were close to 300 skaters there (the ice was dangerously crowded then.) Anyway to put a limit on the number of skaters to keep it safe, but still have enough attend to make it profitable for the rink?

[FrankR]

Hey there Kelli,

Thanks for the post! I'll go ahead and make a few comments.

I think there was some confusion among some of the coaches about what to expect from each group. Someone here (can't remember who) commented about a coach coming in and asking for Axels, a jump not appropriate for their level. In my group there were a number of people definitely working on Axels, but the coach for that class seemed to assume that we weren't. Those of us with consistent (or something) Axels went ahead and did them anyway, but I think others would have welcomed the chance for feedback. Frank, you probably know who I'm talking about, so feel free to agree or disagree here.

I do agree that there were instances when some of the coaches were not 100% sure what we were working on when it came to jumps. However, I also think it's up to each of us to communicate what each of us is working on at the time, should there appear to be any confusion, so that we get the most out of our experience. In the instance Kelli was describing, the instructor had just come off teaching the other competitive group where I don't believe anyone was working on axels yet. So this instructor started off talking about waltz jumps based on his experience with the other group and asked us each to try a waltz individually. As Kelli said, those of us with axels took that opportunity to try them. The instructor did seem a bit surprised that a few of us were trying axels but he adapted. In all cases, each skater got individual feedback from this instructor whether they tried a waltz or an axel.

My comments to pass along would be that, first of all, I had a great time! A map of the facilities would be helpful, as would nametags (and not crappy ones that you throw out after an hour, but good ones that we can wear for two days because I can't remember names). Our group was too large, and when an instructor would send us all out to try something, the results were scary. I'm already neurotic about jumping near people, and trying to set up for any jump on half ice with 16 people made me crazy. You can thank Craig personally for me for finally making a toe loop make sense! And as a much more general comment, I was incredibly impressed with the quality of the adult skaters who train primarily at the Ice House. I would stronly recommend that rink to any adult skater in the NY/NJ area.

Thanks for your comments, Kelli. I'll be sure to pass these along as well. The idea of nametags actually did come up several times during the weekend. I do agree that our class was rather large (I think we started with about 16 skaters and we had a few people join us the second day). I think that the small enrollment limited the ice that we could purchase from the rink and that, in turn, affected class size. However, I do agree that having a gaggle of adult skaters go out and try and jump all at the same time on half a sheet of ice was frightening. 8O :lol: I'll definitely mention this to Craig and hopefully we can come up with a solution and I'm sure he'll be very happy to receive your thanks for his toe loop philosophy. :) Thanks for the kind words regarding those of us that train at the Ice House. I was very impressed with your skating and all of the camp participants really. I think we all bring something to the ice that is unique to each individual and seeing everybody at the camp this weekend really reaffirmed that belief for me.

Take care,

Frank

[FrankR]

There were a few mix ups with ice assignments: one being that about 28 free skaters came onto our ice (we were suppossed to have our own surface this year in order to do lifts) about half way through our session, while rink 3 was totally empty. I went up to Craig and asked him if we could move the pair teams to rink 3 and he was totally discombobulated with the schedule he had infront of him, couldn't figure it out and couldn't tell me what to do. As far as I was concerned, it was a no brainer, so the pairs moved to the empty ice to finish our session.

Hey there,

First, I'd like to clear up that the Ice House and the American Academy Figure Skating Club are two separate entities. Any ice used by the club for any activities has to be purchased from the Ice House. Although I'm sure Craig would have been more than happy to put you on rink 3, it's quite possible that ice time for rink 3 had not been purchased in advance because of the small enrollment. So when you went up to Craig and asked to be moved, chances are it wasn't just a simple matter of him waving his hands and making it happen if the ice had not yet been purchased for that purpose. This may have caused his hesitation to just give you the go-ahead immediately. I realize that the situation may have seemed to have a simple solution from your point of view but there are times that there is more information to consider to achieve an acceptable solution for everyone involved.

I do agree that there were a few administrative glitches at the camp this year. However, by and large I think things went fairly smoothly considering the ice constraints and personnel contraints that were in place because of the smaller enrollment this year.

With the very low attendence, do you think they will have it again next summer? I can't imagine that it was very profitable this time around. I might be mistaken, but about 3, or 4 years ago when I attended there were close to 300 skaters there (the ice was dangerously crowded then.) Anyway to put a limit on the number of skaters to keep it safe, but still have enough attend to make it profitable for the rink?

It is still way too early to tell whether or not the Ice House will host the camp again next year. From what I understand, management at the Ice House expected a smaller turnout this year because the camp was held on a holiday weekend so I don't think that there is a big concern about next year's camp, provided a different weekend is chosen and efforts are made to improve the camp to address any issues that popped up this time around. I certainly hope they hold it again next year.

Take care,

Frank

[Debbie S]

Thanks, Frank, for taking the time to respond to everyone's thoughts and questions. :bow:


With the very low attendence, do you think they will have it again next summer? I can't imagine that it was very profitable this time around. I can't speak for any other skaters, but I know my main reason for not going was the cost. It was what, $300 for the competitive track and $250 for recreational? That buys a lot of lessons and ice time for me, and I decided that economically, it made more sense to put the money toward my day-to-day skating then go to a 2-day camp. I have a pretty good job (no more starving grad student -yippee!) but the cost of the camp, plus hotel for 2 nights, plus gas expenses to drive up (which I thought would logistically and financially be the best option as opposed to the train and then cabs), just made everything too much for me to justify.

The fact that it was a holiday weekend may have had something to do with the low attendance - actually, for me, that was a plus, b/c I'd get 2 days to "recover" and relax before heading back to work.

Is there any way to reduce the cost? It's that age-old dilemma - what's the critical point where your price gets you enough money but doesn't discourage customers. I feel like the price of this year's camp surpassed the critical point. I know that ice and instructors cost money, but does all that really cost $300 a person? The USFSA (I assume they're the ones "profiting", or is it all the Ice House?) is a non-profit organization, after all. One of my regular rinks had a day-long adult workshop on a Sunday in early June and the cost was $85 a person for 8 hours of ice time (4 on-ice classes, 1 off-ice, and 3 open FS sessions for practice or private lessons with the instructors at their regular rates).

[lovepairs]

Thanks for the clarification, Franklin, about Ice House and the Academy being two separate entities. I didn't know this and it certainly does explain Craig's hesitation.

[Terri C]

Is there any way to reduce the cost? It's that age-old dilemma - what's the critical point where your price gets you enough money but doesn't discourage customers. I feel like the price of this year's camp surpassed the critical point. I know that ice and instructors cost money, but does all that really cost $300 a person? The USFSA (I assume they're the ones "profiting", or is it all the Ice House?) is a non-profit organization, after all. One of my regular rinks had a day-long adult workshop on a Sunday in early June and the cost was $85 a person for 8 hours of ice time (4 on-ice classes, 1 off-ice, and 3 open FS sessions for practice or private lessons with the instructors at their regular rates).

Thought I let everyone know that as of two years ago, USFS stopped subsidizing the training camps, due to budget cuts, thus the Ice House is responsible for this one.
Also to add in another factor for low camp turnout, there was a Adult Camp held the weekend or two prior in Atlanta.

[FrankR]

Thought I let everyone know that as of two years ago, USFS stopped subsidizing the training camps, due to budget cuts, thus the Ice House is responsible for this one.


If the Ice House absorbed the full cost of the camp then that would explain the entry fee. When you consider that six forty-five minute sessions had to be purchased on two separate sheets of ice (or three sheets depending on what happened with the pairs' program), the rink staff (who came in solely for this camp, the Ice House, other than the fitness center, was technically closed to the public on Saturday and Sunday) had to be paid, the cost of food for the buffet lunch, the instructors' fees, the t-shirts, etc...I can see why we ended up paying what we did this year. Hopefully, next year we can come up with a plan that is more beneficial for everyone financially.

[Kelli]

The article about camp is up on the USFSA website. I thought it was an accurate reflection of camp, and a lot of the little side anecdotes made me smile.

[FrankR]

The article about camp is up on the USFSA website. I thought it was an accurate reflection of camp, and a lot of the little side anecdotes made me smile.

Hey Kelli,

I just finished reading the article. I thought it was very entertaining and I loved the new blog format. It's funny.

In the article, Michelle talks about enjoying her trip to the camp each year. I can't tell you how many of the camp regulars love having her there and catching up with her. She's the best!!

[jazzpants]

And I just found the perfect opportunity to pick on FrankR again :twisted: :lol: ...

http://www.usfsa.org/content/events/200506/adultcamp/romero.jpg

What a nice spin position!!! :D

And no, I'm NOT gonna comment on this shot with Edward either!!! LOL!!! :lol:

http://www.usfsa.org/content/events/200506/adultcamp/vancampen-szymanski.jpg

:halo:

[Kelli]

And no, I'm NOT gonna comment on this shot with Edward either!!! LOL!!! :lol:

http://www.usfsa.org/content/events/200506/adultcamp/vancampen-szymanski.jpg

:halo:


Paraphrase of Edward from that exercise (a spin demonstration): I would do it with Frank, but he goes the other way.

[FrankR]

Paraphrase of Edward from that exercise (a spin demonstration): I would do it with Frank, but he goes the other way.

:lol: :lol: Just to clarify the statement, in this instance, he meant that I am a clockwise skater and he has a tough time getting out of the way when demonstrating a spin for clockwise as opposed to counter-clockwise skaters. :P

[Isk8NYC]

Not that there's anything wrong with it ... (Sorry, couldn't resist -- Seinfeld's burned into my brain)

Glad you all had a good time.

[FrankR]

Not that there's anything wrong with it ... (Sorry, couldn't resist -- Seinfeld's burned into my brain)


Damn straight!! Lefties rule!! :D ;) :lol:

And yes, we had a very good time.

[jazzpants]

Damn straight!! Lefties rule!! :D ;) :lol: HERE, HERE!!! :lol: 8-) :P

[NoVa Sk8r]

Great spin, Frank ... but that's MY spin position! :P

Love how they call it a "horizontal Biellman. I guess it's not quite "donut-like"?! :lol:

[FrankR]

Great spin, Frank ... but that's MY spin position! :P

Love how they call it a "horizontal Biellman. I guess it's not quite "donut-like"?! :lol:

LOL!! I don't see your name on that spin anywhere. ;)

Yeah. I thought it strange that she called it a horizontal Biellman. The only thing I can think of is that the position captured in the spin is not the final position so maybe she thought it looked more Biellman-like than donut-like? I end up with my leg pulled up a little higher than what is shown in the picture. It's still a pretty good picture. I'll take it. :D

[lovepairs]

Hackensack Training Camp article with some more pics!

http://www.usfsa.org/event_story.asp?id=34861