layback trouble ! =(

[wondering]

i keep slipping off the back of my blade and landing on my bum (and once, on by back, scarily near my head) when i try to do the layback spin. Coach says i'm not 'thrusting' my hips out properly :giveup: does anyone have any ideas on how to do a proper layback spin (any stretches/exercises) or any suggestions on how to combat the dizzy layback spin monster?
Any help will be appreciated !:bow:

[flo]

A couple things to try.
Go to the boards, face them and hold on! Stand on your skating foot so your toe touches the boards. Think of elongating your torso up, then lay back and try to get your hips touching the boards. Remember that the wt. of your head and extended free leg counter-balances the wt. of your forward hips.

I tell the kids to think of picking up a puppy out of a playpen, then once the puppy's feet clear the playpen rails you bring him to you and hug him. This way you think of up, then back. It's also like the crinkly straws. They are much easier to bend than the strait stiff ones.

[jammers]

Well that's pretty much the exersize that every coach teaches or at least mine... maybe not the puppy thing but other wise yea...

Also a good thing to try is centre your spin, put your hands on your hips with your thumbs on your back and push your hips forward to find the right spot on your blade... don't drop your head just yet, try it a few times to find the perfect spot to spin on which is between the toepick and the middle of the blade. Then try doing a layback with your hands on your hips and dropping your head completely. Don't forget to push your hips forwards. After doing that a few times try your regular layback again and make sure you feel the same thing with your hips as you did in the other one.

Good Luck!

[vesperholly]

Try not to lean back so much, and concentrate on a good C curve in your back, not flat like Sasha Cohen. Do hamstring stretches so your skating leg can properly support you when it's pushed forward. Centering the spin before you go to the position is also very important. Keep your free hip even with your skating hip - don't push it back.

The same thing happens to me (I don't fall, I just get off balance and have to stop) when I drop my shoulders back too much. I think of getting a good back position before I think of pushing my hips forward, and it screws up the spin. It helps me to keep my shoulders slightly higher than I'm inclined to, to keep the balance correct.

[doubletoe]

I think of getting a good back position before I think of pushing my hips forward, and it screws up the spin. It helps me to keep my shoulders slightly higher than I'm inclined to, to keep the balance correct.

Can you explain a little more about this? Are you saying you arch your back before pushing the hips forward? I thought it was the other way around, but I have major problems trying to get my balance on this spin, too, so I'm all ears!

[techskater]

You should think about lifting first and the pushing forward. Your back should lift up and then your hips should press forward.

[vesperholly]

Can you explain a little more about this? Are you saying you arch your back before pushing the hips forward? I thought it was the other way around, but I have major problems trying to get my balance on this spin, too, so I'm all ears!
No, I said that screws up the spin. My problem is dropping my shoulders back so far that my hips can't compensate, and I lose balance and thus, the spin.

What helped me was 1. center like a scratch spin first 2. keep hips even (don't push free hip back - do the position by the boards and both your hips should touch the wall when you lean back) 3. keep free leg steady 4. keep shoulders even and 5. keep hands centered over your chest, not your head.

And lots and lots of practice. I used to do this spin CW, but then I switched about 2 years ago b/c none of my other spins were that way, and I wanted to put it in combination spins. It took me about six months of very ugly attempts before the spin was any good, and then it got better quickly. Today I tried to do a CW layback and I couldn't even get into a scratch spin!

[doubletoe]

No, I said that screws up the spin. My problem is dropping my shoulders back so far that my hips can't compensate, and I lose balance and thus, the spin.

What helped me was 1. center like a scratch spin first 2. keep hips even (don't push free hip back - do the position by the boards and both your hips should touch the wall when you lean back) 3. keep free leg steady 4. keep shoulders even and 5. keep hands centered over your chest, not your head.

And lots and lots of practice. I used to do this spin CW, but then I switched about 2 years ago b/c none of my other spins were that way, and I wanted to put it in combination spins. It took me about six months of very ugly attempts before the spin was any good, and then it got better quickly. Today I tried to do a CW layback and I couldn't even get into a scratch spin!

Thanks! I think my problem may be that my upper back is stiff so my back only bends at the waist, giving me an upside-down "L" position rather than a "C". That puts my head too far out, which messes with my balance. At least that's what I *think* the problem is. . .

[vesperholly]

Thanks! I think my problem may be that my upper back is stiff so my back only bends at the waist, giving me an upside-down "L" position rather than a "C". That puts my head too far out, which messes with my balance. At least that's what I *think* the problem is. . .
Yes, that could definitely be it. My coach told me to think of a ballet barre pressing underneath my shoulder blades - straighten your back up, then curve your shoulders OVER the bar, "up and over". Keep the tummy tight and press your spine to your belly button. I can tell when I'm not getting the "C" when my stomach is relaxed and my back feels pinched. I started doing 50 situps every day, and this seems to really help support the spin.

[doubletoe]

Yes, that could definitely be it. My coach told me to think of a ballet barre pressing underneath my shoulder blades - straighten your back up, then curve your shoulders OVER the bar, "up and over". Keep the tummy tight and press your spine to your belly button. I can tell when I'm not getting the "C" when my stomach is relaxed and my back feels pinched. I started doing 50 situps every day, and this seems to really help support the spin.

Thanks! :) I notice my back tends to bend more evenly when I lie back over an exercise ball than when I do other types of back bends. Unfortunately, I normally do my stretches at the rink right after skating, where I don't have an exercise ball. I usually do the yoga stretch where you start face down on the floor and push yourself up like a push-up, keeping the pelvis on the floor. I can get my arms straight by around the 3rd try, but I think my back still bends mostly at the waist and stays pretty straight through the middle an dupper back. . . sigh. . .

[flo]

If you also extend your free leg back it will balance the torso. You would be more like a > than a C! Keep trying, it will get better.

[doubletoe]

If you also extend your free leg back it will balance the torso. You would be more like a > than a C! Keep trying, it will get better.

You mean like Sasha's, where the free foot is farther behind her but also raised?

[flo]

Yes, sort of. I try to to keep my head in line with my foot. I think you can see it in the picture I posted.
try here further down under my name.:
http://skatingforums.com/showthread.php?p=274569&highlight=layback#post274569

[doubletoe]

Yes, sort of. I try to to keep my head in line with my foot. I think you can see it in the picture I posted.
try here further down under my name.:
http://skatingforums.com/showthread.php?p=274569&highlight=layback#post274569

Hey, that's really pretty! :bow: Too bad our hairstyles are so different; I'd love to be able to show it around and claim it was me, LOL!

[flo]

Thanks! Go ahead - photoshop is great! For this year's nationals we didn't have any pics of us. I put my new partner's head on my former partner's body.
Keep trying, you'll get it!

[doubletoe]

Thanks! Go ahead - photoshop is great! For this year's nationals we didn't have any pics of us. I put my new partner's head on my former partner's body.
Keep trying, you'll get it!


I love it! :lol:

[beachbabe]

your coach is probably right, but to get your hips forward more, you have to increase your back flexibility. Do lots of back bends for both your upper and lower back- look to yoga moves for inspiration. If you're really flexible you could try the full pidgeon.

Anyways, the more you can bend your back, the easier it will be for you to get your hips forward more.