3-Turns [Archive] - skatingforums.com

cassarilda

04-10-2006, 05:02 AM

Is that the secret? I am really determined to figure out three turns but I don't think my feet quite understand the balance point and where and how to turn--enough--to get around all the way and not fall down. Why is this step so hard when it looks so deceptively easy??

You need to be on whatever edge you are going on (outside or inside) - its easier going on a slight curve... and try rotating your shoulders and head first before your hips... and also try it with minimal travel prior to trying it... so push off then try it :)

Once you get it, youve got it though (took me WEEKS to get - very frustrating - but now its easy as pie.. and Im just practising it faster and faster and with neat feet :D ) -

Crossovers however are another story!!! Cant do them well enough to save my life - so cant help you!! I think Im learning the wrong things first :lol: :D

Aleeta

04-10-2006, 12:21 PM

Not sure, but the best piece of advice that I have gotten on 3-turns so far is to be confident in my one-foot backwards glides before I try them, since that's how I will be going when the move is finished.

flo

04-10-2006, 12:30 PM

For those of you working on crossovers - keep going. That you're working on them at all is great. Crossovers are one of those things that the more you work on them, the more they really improve. You'll be refining them for years, so don't get too frustrated.

For three turns, I start teaching them by having the kids stand on a line and extend their right hand in front of them along the axis of the line, and their left hand behind them along the same axis. Then I stand behind them and hold the left hand and ask them to turn to me, keeping their right arm where it is. We also do this with all the kids lined up, so that everyone has someon'es hand in front and back, and we turn forwards and backwards. This gets them feeling the hip action. Then they go it alone and then on a small 1/2 circle with two feet, then to one.

Skittl1321

04-10-2006, 12:35 PM

For three turns, I start teaching them by having the kids stand on a line and extend their right hand in front of them along the axis of the line, and their left hand behind them along the same axis. Then I stand behind them and hold the left hand and ask them to turn to me, keeping their right arm where it is. We also do this with all the kids lined up, so that everyone has someon'es hand in front and back, and we turn forwards and backwards. This gets them feeling the hip action. Then they go it alone and then on a small 1/2 circle with two feet, then to one.

So are you saying your arms form a straight line (180 degree angle)? Our instructor told us to form a 90 degree angle with our hands "opposite front hand then starting foot"? Is this wrong, or just different?

flo

04-10-2006, 12:46 PM

Hi,
It's just a different way to teach it from the very beginning, as it's also a way for them to turn from front to back. We also stress the knees down, rise for turn, and knees down again. I also have very small tots, and they can get the easy arm positions. When they really start doing the threes, we modify the arms, bringing the back one more to 45 degrees, or "hug the circle. For those who have a beginning three, and are having difficulty finishing the back edge, I tell them to make sure that you look in the direction you want to go - sometimes I even have them point to it to get their shoulder back. This will help with control and eek out the last tiny bit back to the starting line.

I also use the same hand, same foot approach for going into jumps. I probable learned them with opposite hands, but once I started jumping the changing arm positions in mid 3 was an extra step I didn't need.

Skittl1321

04-10-2006, 12:51 PM

Thanks for clarifying.

I'm the only beginning 4 in my class (it's a Basic 3/4 class with 8 students... some repeating 3, some repeating 4, some starting 3, and me starting 4) so the 3 turn instruction went like this- "go ahead and work on 3-turns" she showed it, said "put your arms opposite how you want to go" then went to work with the Basic 3s on 2-foot spins! I assume because it was the first class she was more rushed and we'll get more instruction/corrections on this move in other classes (she was good about correcting other things)

I kind of did one, and then did a few where I dropped my back foot, but from seeing it once, I couldn't work out which edge went where or the pattern of the 3 it was supposed to make. I spent some time on the kitchen floor and I think I have an idea of it next time I can make it to the rink.

I have the hip snap part (like a 2-footed turn, right?) I think the thing I have to do is hold the edge and not put my foot down when I get scared about turning on one blade.

Tinkerbell

04-10-2006, 02:45 PM

I have the hip snap part (like a 2-footed turn, right?)

See, that's why I figured the three turn would be easy (why do they call it that anyway??). Because my 2 foot turn is not so bad. I mean it's not completely intuitive but I don't have a problem with it. I hadn't realized, when I started all this, how very different two and one feet really are.

I think the thing I have to do is hold the edge and not put my foot down when I get scared about turning on one blade.

I'm even scared to put my foot down. I'm pretty sure I'd fall. So I grab the wall every time. Which, I realize, is probably doing the move for me entirely. I guess I'll have to wait to move it away from the wall until I'm completely certain I understand where I need to be on all points.

So far, to add to the arms discussion, I think my book told me to do same arm as lifted leg. So I point strait behind me with an open arm. I've tried this at home on the gaps between the tiles and I realize, even on a hard floor I don't make it all the way around. I get about half to three quarters around. I guess I should keep trying on barefeet, as well.

Skittl1321

04-10-2006, 03:01 PM

I'm even scared to put my foot down. I'm pretty sure I'd fall. So I grab the wall every time. Which, I realize, is probably doing the move for me entirely. I guess I'll have to wait to move it away from the wall until I'm completely certain I understand where I need to be on all points.

So far, to add to the arms discussion, I think my book told me to do same arm as lifted leg. So I point strait behind me with an open arm. I've tried this at home on the gaps between the tiles and I realize, even on a hard floor I don't make it all the way around. I get about half to three quarters around. I guess I should keep trying on barefeet, as well.

Hmmm... maybe this should be moved into it's own thread, since we now have a 3-turn discussion going on.

I didn't ever get to use the wall- we started learning them in the middle of the ice... maybe that's a good thing.

I think same arms as the lifted leg, would be what I called opposite arms. I was doing opposite arm (front) as the moving foot. Which would mean if I lifted the left leg then my left arm would be front.

Skittl1321

04-10-2006, 03:05 PM

Well us three-turn talkers took over another unrelated thread, so I thought I would post here to move the conversation.

So if you can't figure out a 3-turn to save your life, post here and "talk it out" until the other information posted helps you get it. Or if you're a 3-turn expert, post here so I can use what you say to figure out my 3-turn.

I don't have anything new to add just yet, but hopefully a moderator will move my other posts into this thread to get things started.

All this talking about 3-turns makes me want to figure it out even more and nail it on Wednesday :)

flo

04-10-2006, 03:35 PM

Start on a reasonable arc, or circle, not too large for your size. The turn will sort of look like a three, but my former beau always thought they looked like heart :oops:
Try it on two feet, but when you go to one remember that the wt. will be centered over your one foot. Or do the forward edge on one foot with your other teo to your heel. Then put it down if you have to and pick it right back up. Don't rush the turn, and try to feel it in your knees.

Skittl1321

04-10-2006, 05:14 PM

What's the best way to practice these off ice? I've been working on standing one leg and doing the turn. That's tough enough to do and keep a perfect balance. I'm also concentrating keeping my free leg pointed at my heel. I'm also working on my knee bend. But will this translate to any skill on ice?

Any other off ice ideas?

froggy

04-10-2006, 05:59 PM

it took me quite a while to get my outside 3s what worked for me is to think of the edge primarily (thinking too much into the hips and shoulders just gave me a headache), really commit to start on an outside and come out inside all while holding your posture -think of your core being really solid and hold your chin up, (being all lanky with arms and free leg flinging is going to throw you oh so off balance!) oh an get away from the wall, I've been there and done that get yourself at least 3feet away from the wall. OH be sure your blades are sharpened, if not you'll be slipping and slidding.

3's are really impt in skating they'll come up again in MITF tests, prep for jumps and spins so keep working at it!!

Keep practicing! OH and the off ice question, with hoisery or socks on a slippery wood flooor Ive done 3turns theyve helped a bit in terms of holding my balance coming out of the 3 (not putting my free foot down) obviously you can't mimick edge on socks on a floor :o)

sue123

04-10-2006, 06:21 PM

Ah 3 turns, gotta love them. I am proud to say that I can now do three turns in all the different directions, but now my coach wants me to do the alternating 3 pattern. Just when yout thought it couldn't get any harder.

When I was first learning them, it really helped for me to say the steps in my head. I'd start from a standstill, push onto the leg I want to turn on, and say "Bend, twist, up, and down" The twist refers to pre-rotating your body before you turn. So you're all set to go and then all you have to do is stand up and let it all fall into place. Also, what really helped was looking where I was going. So I would turn my head because it's logical that you want to look where you were skating. My coach used to stand behind me and say "look at me, I don't see your lovely face!"

And dont work on only one direction. For the longest time, I only did LFO and RFI because it was more natural. This was before I started privates. Had I been working on each direction together, I doubt it would have taken me so long to get comfortable going both ways. Even now, I know i can do them in both directions, but I still hesitate a bit before doing a RFO or LFI 3-turn.

VegasGirl

04-10-2006, 07:12 PM

See, that's why I figured the three turn would be easy (why do they call it that anyway??).

It's called 3-turn because you turn in a pattern that looks like a 3 on the ice. And I have a feeling you're not doing that... meaning you're going into the turn to straight instead of just about a half circle before actually turning.

So far, to add to the arms discussion, I think my book told me to do same arm as lifted leg. So I point strait behind me with an open arm. I've tried this at home on the gaps between the tiles and I realize, even on a hard floor I don't make it all the way around. I get about half to three quarters around. I guess I should keep trying on barefeet, as well.

I was taught this way... example for LFO-3-turn... T-position with left foot in front, left arm forward, right arm to the right at 90 degrees... push off with the right gliding on the LOE in a half circle and then do the turn at the pivot point where it almost does itself... finally finishing with a LBI half circle.

flippet

04-10-2006, 09:49 PM

It's called 3-turn because you turn in a pattern that looks like a 3 on the ice. And I have a feeling you're not doing that... meaning you're going into the turn to straight instead of just about a half circle before actually turning.

VegasGirl's probably right, especially if you're trying to do them at the boards. (no, no, no, no, no!!!! Sorry...I have issues with learning things next to the boards....I'm afraid I'm going to hit the boards, which would make me fall, so I like to do things well out into the middle. And I've always felt that falling on my bum out in the clear is much preferable to falling on my bum and smacking my head on the wall on the way down. :frus:)

Follow VG's instructions, starting perpendicular to one of the blue or red lines. You'll push off away from the line, making a half-circle--the turn happens at the top of the half-circle, and then you finish the half-circle backwards, coming back to the line a yard or so down from where you started. If you're doing it straight, then you're on a flat, not an edge....which is kind of defeating the purpose. Because of the curvature of the blade, being on an edge means you will naturally skate in a circle of some sort. You've got to trust it, not fight it. If you're forcing the turn, you're not trusting the edge enough.

cassarilda

04-10-2006, 11:15 PM

Just in regards to learning at the barrier... I could NOT do 3-turns when at the barrier... couldnt do them at all...

I moved into the center, spent an entire 3hrs working on them (intermingled with a few other basic things - mohawks etc) and FINALLY got them!! But only when I went to the middle...

my theory as to why?

It forced me to have better posture and I had to depend on my body to do the work, rather than pushing against the barrier (and we all do it even though we try not to!)

Bending beforehand (like we should be anyway), then rising slightly for the turn, and bending afterwards also helps alot... but I find that once someone put pressure on the shoulder that turns first, I just remembered that pressure and applied it to all my turns... so my shoulder turns first, then my arms, head and THEN my hips. :) I hope that makes sense

Keep trying.. you'll get them!

and once you do, you can try back 3s.. and then twizzles!! :D The current bane of my existance (next to crossovers :roll: :frus: ) :D

dbny

04-10-2006, 11:20 PM

The turn should happen naturally as you raise your bent knee. If your shoulders and arms are rotated, and your weight is in the right place, then just rising up will do it. You don't have to twist your hips, just let them turn. Try on two feet first to get the feeling of the turn happening instead of being forced.

All of this is from someone who is terribly three turn challenged, though mostly from fear. I had FO threes very suddenly, very easy, could do one anywhere anytime. Signed up for pre-pre MIF test and broke wrist the next day. Five years later, I still do not have those easy threes back. They come and go. They came back nice and solid for two weeks, just long enough for me to pass the pre-pre MIF, then started acting up again. Some of my problem with them is due to boot trouble, and new boots are in the works very soon. DH pointed out something that helped on Friday. He said that the slower you take the turn, the more time your blade is in contact with the ice, making it easier to catch the edge. I speeded them up, and it really was easier and felt a lot safer. Finally, if you learn by example, watch the elite comps and shows and look specifically for the threes (true for XO's also). I got BO threes from watching Irina Slutskaya. They come and go too, though :roll:.

Tinkerbell

04-11-2006, 01:45 AM

Wow! Thanks for all the input.

I thought I was loosing my mind for a moment, though. I don't remember starting a thread about 3 turns. I was thinking about doing just that, actually. So thanks for doing it for me.

Now, on to the three turn.

VegasGirl's probably right, especially if you're trying to do them at the boards. (no, no, no, no, no!!!! Sorry...I have issues with learning things next to the boards....I'm afraid I'm going to hit the boards, which would make me fall, so I like to do things well out into the middle. And I've always felt that falling on my bum out in the clear is much preferable to falling on my bum and smacking my head on the wall on the way down. :frus:)

Apparently I am just seriously stubborn. I have my comfort zone and I refuse to learn it any other way. I think maybe it comes from years of ballet and being accostomed to having a bar to practice with. I suppose that can be kind of a crutch as well.

I've just never been afraid of falling at the boards. For most things I just kind of slam into it sideways and I am tall enough that I catch it with my hips and arms.

Anyway, that's just been my method thus far. Work it out at the wall. Then take it out to the center. Obviously most things are going to eventually require an arc to work on, so I try to linger at the side only long enough to figure it out. Forward pumping I never felt compelled to use the wall but backward pumping I still feel kind of uneasy about. Like if I hit the wrong edge I will go down like a demolished building. I'm very fearful of going down the wrong way.

But here's the thing. The comedy of errors, if you will.

I have been very focused and determined to get this darned 3 turn and have been practicing it over and over the last several days. Today, I just felt this drive to get it right. Granted, at the side so far--to get the feel for the direction shift.

Again and again and again.

Finally, I decided to just take a deep breath, give it a little wind-up (the prerotation) and go. To start with I was using the wall to lift up. But after a while, only to grab to steady myself at the end. And then, I realized my arms were not checking all the way.

I made a promise to think of my arms and the check and all of a sudden, quite without expecting it, I just did it. Bam! All the way around. Arms free and clear. Butt hit the boards afterwards a little but the arms were FREE!

Tried it again and did it again.

I think I finally got the hang of it. Next time I take it to the circle.

The comedy part of this is that I said, somewhere in this tread (or possibly another one) that I was working on the Forward Outside 3 turn. That's the one, the book I've been working out of, was starting with.

Only, when I went back to the book to check how they said to do the arms, I discovered that I was not, in fact, doing the outside turn. I guess I must have learned the inside turn by accident. I guess I tend to prefer doing most things on an inside turn. It pushes me out of traffic rather than into it.

So, any thoughts on that? When I go back out there and try to do the outside turn am I going to find that it's harder? Easier? Similar?

Hopefully, I can still do this one. There seems to be some sort of twisted karma at the ice rink, wherein if you have a good practice one day, it sucks the next. Anyone else notice this?

Mrs Redboots

04-11-2006, 07:13 AM

I wonder whether you have yet all seen the Figure Skating FAQ (http://home.pacbell.net/anamga/basicSkating.html#2.8), which I've quoted on forward 3-turns, but there are plenty of other things on there, too. If you haven't yet had a look, do so!

I still have trouble turning LFO3s at speed when solo (and occasionally when partnered), but technically they are better than most of my other one-footed turns.

Don't forget, there are 32 one-footed turns to master!

Skate@Delaware

04-11-2006, 07:32 AM

I used to practice them on the hockey goal circle....it's just the right size.

They have a down-up-down motion and nice flow-nothing is rushed.

Practice back edges to get comfortable with that part. The going backwards part is where people really freak out first 8O I did.

The hardest thing was NOT looking down.....guilty still

Free leg is at the heel of the skating foot.

I'm still working out the arm thing.....one day I'll remember where they are supposed to go (my coach will probably have a heart attack when that happens!!!)

flo

04-11-2006, 10:13 AM

As far as practicing anything at the boards - be careful. In one of our rinks the ice slopes in right at the boards. It's really easy to get caught in it. Also turning to be able to catch the boards, just in case, throws off your body position and balance and makes learning the skill more difficult.

Tinkerbell

04-11-2006, 11:15 AM

Also turning to be able to catch the boards, just in case, throws off your body position and balance and makes learning the skill more difficult.

I finally got it when I told myself, sternly DO NOT TOUCH THE WALL!

Tinkerbell

04-11-2006, 11:21 AM

I wonder whether you have yet all seen the Figure Skating FAQ (http://home.pacbell.net/anamga/basicSkating.html#2.8), which I've quoted on forward 3-turns, but there are plenty of other things on there, too. If you haven't yet had a look, do so!

Thanks. I'll have to study that page closely.

Don't forget, there are 32 one-footed turns to master!

That should keep me busy! 8O

icedancer2

04-11-2006, 01:49 PM

I was taught this way... example for LFO-3-turn... T-position with left foot in front, left arm forward, right arm to the right at 90 degrees... push off with the right gliding on the LOE in a half circle and then do the turn at the pivot point where it almost does itself... finally finishing with a LBI half circle.

I hope that you are rotating your left arm behind you and your right arm (and shoulders too) in front of you before turning. Otherwise you are going to block yourself.

I tried your method this morning just to see if I could and although I could do it (I've been skating for 40+ years) it was a lot harder.

You have to think about hugging the circle with your arms (just like for cross-overs), strike the LO edge, bend your knee, and the turn just happens really.

I also don't think it really matters if you learn it next to the wall or not. At some point or another everyone needs to use the wall, or the kind hand of your coach...;)

flippet

04-11-2006, 01:55 PM

I finally got it when I told myself, sternly DO NOT TOUCH THE WALL!

The thing is, if you're close enough to touch the wall if you choose, then you really don't have enough room to do the element.

Using the wall is something that one must get over in order to skate--no way around it. And the best way to do it is cold turkey. As you discovered, once you stopped touching the wall, you managed the element. It's still true out in the middle. As Nike says, JUST DO IT! :D

Isk8NYC

04-11-2006, 01:55 PM

icedancer2

04-11-2006, 02:02 PM

I agree with you, IceDancer2, about the arm position. I'm sure VegasGirl is rotating her arms/shoulders. I teach it in the pre-rotated position first, otherwise students tend to force the turn by swinging their arms around, then they rotate out of it and can't hold the back edges.

It also seems to contribute to the leg swing, so I have them check their free foot before and extend after the turn. (That's what I used to do because I didn't understand alignment and knee/foot control.)

Hmm -- not sure what you mean (wish I could just with you on the ice and we could demonstrate for each other!!:lol: ) but I'm glad you mentioned the "check" which is the next point after the turn happens: so for the LFO 3-turn described above, after the turn, your arms (shoulders, too) should still be on the circle but in the opposite order: your left arm will be in front of you and your right arm behind (one th circle) while you are riding the LBI edge.

Clear as mud I suppose? Just wait until you get to mohawks!!!

sunshinepointe

04-11-2006, 02:41 PM

For those of you working on 3 turns - there will come a point when you can't even remember learning them.

FWIW, I'm still working on 3 turns - better speed, better edge quality, stronger check etc. One thing that helped me with my 3 turns was tucking the free foot behind the skating foot like when doing edges*. 3 turns, like everything else in skating, never go away and can always be better. I know a girl working on Intermediate MIF (I think its int. at any rate) and she's still working on her 3 turns too. So have no fear, we all feel your pain. Just think - before you know it you'll be working on BACK 3 turns 8O

*It always baffled me why you learn 3 turns before edges...it would think learning edges would come first since everyone seems to have a hard time getting on that edge. It also baffles me to see instructors in group lessons teaching the 3 turn without the check. Yes, I see this at my rink, NO it's not my coach and yes it makes me angry.

jenlyon60

04-11-2006, 02:47 PM

I'm working on American Waltz (Silver dance) and STILL improving my 3-turns.

phoenix

04-11-2006, 03:03 PM

Oy, I'm working on my Starlight Waltz (pre-gold) & STILL improving my 3 turns!! It never ends.

Aleeta

04-11-2006, 03:44 PM

I started on 2-foot 3-turns today with some help, and I don't remember who above said think "Bend, Twist, Up, Bend" but that worked great - Thank you! They aren't clean and they need a lot of work - but I can kinda do them! I made sure to work on them turning both ways, forwards at least, I understand how the backwards is supposed to work, but I didn't try them much, yet.

I also figured out that 1-foot backwards glides are a whole lot easier on an RBO or LBO today, I was actually able to balance for a good distance, which I was very excited about since it means that I am that much closer to learning back crossovers and real 3-turns. It's amazing to me how much easier it is to skate when you are on an edge than on the flat.

This thread has been enoromously helpful! Thank you All! :)

Tessa

04-11-2006, 04:28 PM

I'm loving this thread! I *barely* passed prelim moves and I hated those three turns. Now I have to do threes in the field. I was playing around with them the other day and what a mess! I can do all the threes if I had to do them separately and not on big arcs, but once I try to lay the pattern out -- eek. I have very swingy free legs.

I learned my lfi 3 on the wall. It was helpful to me as that three turn scared me to death.

SkatingOnClouds

04-11-2006, 06:08 PM

sue123

04-11-2006, 06:44 PM

I'm re-visiting 3 turns too,

I can do nice neat turns with my free foot tucked in behind, as I was taught to do for figures back when they were vitally important. I can do nice swinging ones for free skating too. But I cannot check the LFO 3 or my mohawks enough to get a balanced edge for flips.

How can I make my free skating turns checked enough? I use my shoulders and arms, I think of keeping my free leg behind me, but my exit edges are too curved. Is there a secret about the entry, the turn itself, or something after the turn that helps set you up for the jump?

When you check, you really shouldn't need to use your arms. You want to squeeze your (lats?) shoulder blades as hard as you can. Also you want to squeeze your glutius maximus (butt muscle), but that goes for everything in skating. But the check really comes from your shoulders. Your arms are just there because they're attached to yuor shoulders.

Mercedeslove

04-11-2006, 06:55 PM

The thing is, if you're close enough to touch the wall if you choose, then you really don't have enough room to do the element.

Using the wall is something that one must get over in order to skate--no way around it. And the best way to do it is cold turkey. As you discovered, once you stopped touching the wall, you managed the element. It's still true out in the middle. As Nike says, JUST DO IT! :D

I once tried using the wall and couldn't do it. Though I can do it without the wall just fine.

VegasGirl

04-11-2006, 07:07 PM

I hope that you are rotating your left arm behind you and your right arm (and shoulders too) in front of you before turning. Otherwise you are going to block yourself.

Don't worry I have no problems at all with 3-turns and my arms do exactly what they're supposed to do. :)

Tinkerbell

04-11-2006, 08:13 PM

I once tried using the wall and couldn't do it. Though I can do it without the wall just fine.

I'm curious as to what it is that I'm doing differently from the dissenting crowd, that I don't find the wall to be a hindrance.

Clearly, it's not an actual three turn that I'm doing, since I'm not yet making a three. But it occurs to me that I'm kind of trying to do things a little ot of order. I'm still kind of nervous about back pumping on a circle and I think that is probably a big reason why I don't like the idea of the three turn on an arc--yet.

It's not that I can't pump or that I can't take it in a circle. I'm just kind of scared of being out of control while moving backwards. So I work on the pumps very slowly for now and keep the 3 turn near the wall.

Today I made a point to practice it far enough away that I couldn't easily grab it and I successfully got around several times with no wall contact at all. Even with occasional momentum in the end.

Maybe I'm just at the point where I'm too much of a newbie to coordinate edges AND turning. I'm still pleased as pie that I can turn on one foot at ALL and not fall over.

And everytime I do it near the wall (where there is security) I feel myself getting braver and bolder and wanting to take it out and see what it can really do.

I did fall today, though--random toepick catch. It wasn't bad. I rolled like I had been thrown out of a moving car and a nearby coach commented on my "nice fall".

Thin-Ice

04-12-2006, 02:35 AM

How can I make my free skating turns checked enough? I use my shoulders and arms, I think of keeping my free leg behind me, but my exit edges are too curved. Is there a secret about the entry, the turn itself, or something after the turn that helps set you up for the jump?

You could try making the entry of the 3-turn a little less curvy... since the 3-turn is supposed to be equal curves on the entrance and the exit. I do a fairly reasonable flip -- and my entry to the 3-turn is a bit shallower than it is when I'm doing footwork or moves. It's worth a try at least.

quarkiki2

04-12-2006, 08:21 AM

I drop my "inside" hip when I do FO3s -- resulting in a tiny, very curved exit edge. I'm aware of this, but cannot seem to stop it when I do the turn in isolation -- when I step into a toe loop (well, 1/2 toe), the turn is checked and fine. D'oh!

SDFanatic

04-12-2006, 08:56 AM

I'm re-visiting 3 turns too,

I can do nice neat turns with my free foot tucked in behind, as I was taught to do for figures back when they were vitally important. I can do nice swinging ones for free skating too. But I cannot check the LFO 3 or my mohawks enough to get a balanced edge for flips.

How can I make my free skating turns checked enough? I use my shoulders and arms, I think of keeping my free leg behind me, but my exit edges are too curved. Is there a secret about the entry, the turn itself, or something after the turn that helps set you up for the jump?

I had problems with subcurving on my exit, my one coach thought I was putting too much into it and forcing it.

One suggestion she made that worked for me most of the time is to put your hands on top of an imaginary table and hold that position before and after the three turn, it helped me for better alignment and keeping proper posture.

Another thing is to watch your hips, on my inside threes I would raise my hip causing it to subcurve while dropping it on my outside threes causing the same problem.

And a tip for back threes, try to make your toes touch the top of your boot, (I can do all four in my new boots now instead of the three with my old ones)

Steven

flo

04-12-2006, 10:43 AM

Tink - just keep practicing - you'll feel more ease and comfort with the edges.
The wall can also be very dangerous as our ice is pretty poor there and it's easy to get caught. Also, knowing it's there you tend to rush the back side of the three in case you need to grab.

froggy

04-12-2006, 02:21 PM

SkatingOnClouds

04-12-2006, 06:02 PM

You could try making the entry of the 3-turn a little less curvy... since the 3-turn is supposed to be equal curves on the entrance and the exit. I do a fairly reasonable flip -- and my entry to the 3-turn is a bit shallower than it is when I'm doing footwork or moves. It's worth a try at least.

How do I make it less curvy? When I try to make the 3 turn flat, I skid. It's the same with my mohawk entry. I'm getting a fairly flat entry to the turn, but not the exit, even though I'm checking so hard my shoulders ache.

Thin-Ice

04-13-2006, 03:04 AM

How do I make it less curvy? When I try to make the 3 turn flat, I skid. It's the same with my mohawk entry. I'm getting a fairly flat entry to the turn, but not the exit, even though I'm checking so hard my shoulders ache.

Instead of trying to make a tight curve, elongate the edge you push into before you make the turn... hard to explain.. but try to picture it this way... instead of the first curve looking like a "C".. think of it as a longer curve like "(".... The way I do that is to keep my shoulders checked longer on that entry edge than I would for a shorter curve.

When I do 3-turns in footwork or on moves I try to make the first curve about 2/3-to-my-full-height. When I do it to set up for the flip, I try to make the 3-turn my-height-to-1.5-times-my-height (that doesn't mean it actually happens that way, but that's what I'm aiming for.)

I hope this helps.. but reading it over, I think it may be about as clear as the paint on the blue line. Anyone else want to try to make this make sense?

Skate@Delaware

04-13-2006, 07:35 AM

Instead of trying to make a tight curve, elongate the edge you push into before you make the turn... hard to explain.. but try to picture it this way... instead of the first curve looking like a "C".. think of it as a longer curve like "(".... The way I do that is to keep my shoulders checked longer on that entry edge than I would for a shorter curve.

Try doing them on the hockey circle. That should enlarge the curve. Plus it gets you away from the wall.....We had to do an exercise (we meaning me!) where you do a LFO edge for 1/3 the circle, then 3-turn then another edge for 1/3 then step forward. It was to get me used to riding my edges and not anticipating the turn. We planned it so the 3-turn was to happen on the line that intersected the circle (or near the double lines). It worked!

SDFanatic

04-13-2006, 07:47 AM

Great thread!!! i spent a lot of time today on the FI 3's and fianally did them pretty well, hurray!! any advice on back outside 3's, my problem is that my weight goes forward and I scrape onto my toe, and I have a hard time checking my free leg, it seems to swind around at the turn, what should I think about when doing the outside 3's?

And a tip for back threes, try to make your toes touch the top of your boot.

Put your free leg in front of you and sqeeze your legs together.

Steven

Isk8NYC

04-13-2006, 08:42 AM

<snip>I have a hard time checking my free leg, it seems to swing around at the turn, what should I think about when doing the outside 3's?

Your upper body position and twist is probably off, so work on those checks to start.

To check your foot, which I often call "tucking", place the inside of your free foot against the inside of your skating foot, with the free foot instep "snuggled" against the ankle of the skating foot boot. The knee of your free leg HAS to be bent.

Now close your thighs/knees and pretend that you have only one leg - you're a mer-person! Force yourself to keep those knees closed and that foot checked/tucked tightly. This stops the swing and helps keep you from chickening out/touching down.

Try to do this with rhythm: push and check the legs, down on the skating knee, rotate and check the arms/shoulders and LOOK BEHIND you in the direction you're going to turn. Now, come up on the knee and turn the foot using the sweet spot. Finally, back down on the knee, check the arms/shoulders again, and g-l-i-d-e.

Tinkerbell

04-13-2006, 04:53 PM

Try to do this with rhythm: push and check the legs, down on the skating knee, rotate and check the arms/shoulders and LOOK BEHIND you in the direction you're going to turn. Now, come up on the knee and turn the foot using the sweet spot. Finally, back down on the knee, check the arms/shoulders again, and g-l-i-d-e.

I like this description.

beachbabe

04-13-2006, 05:36 PM

first of all, make sure you are learning the 3-turn on a half circle. Don't everrrr try to learn it on a straight line untill they are perfect on a half circle. Start in a T. For an outside 3 turn i start with my arms facing more towards the outside of the circle whicle still hugging it somewhat, I turn my upper body and the leg just turns in to position. For insides I keep my arms hugging the circle the whole way through and simply turn the upper body...the lower body will follow by itself.

Keep good posture and really focus on your upper torso. Don't try and force the foot to turn, b/c its supposed to turn by itself.

sk8mommy

04-13-2006, 07:00 PM

I am learning 3 turns right now too. Surprisingly, I kind of like them, but I'm not smooth with them yet. Haven't tried any of the backwards to forwards ones yet, though. I actually have any easier time with the three turns than with the 2 footed turn, which seems to be my nemesis! I am soooo slow with them. I can do 2 foot turns when I am barely moving, but if I get up any speed at all....I chicken out and am too slow in rotating my hips and end up going in a circle instead of a nice quick clean change of direction....
One thing that has really helped me with the 3 turns is that I've spent A LOT of time working on my outside edges on the hockey circle in prep for front crossovers (another scary one for me). I think that a lot of people in my LTS class "do" the front xo's but don't really focus on the outside edge....my chickenness has helped me in that I always spend so much time going around the circle getting the edge and feeling comfortable before working up the courage to pick up my foot and cross over. Forget about back xo's...I am way too wimpy to try them yet!

With 3 turns, I am finding that I want to put that free foot down right afterwards, because I don't feel comfy with backwards glides on one foot yet. As a matter of fact, when I try to skate backwards and lift that one foot, I just can't get the balance...any tricks? I think that my backward one foot glide is something that I'm going to have to get good at to see much progression in my 3 turns.
Kathy

cassarilda

04-13-2006, 09:49 PM

One thing that has really helped me with the 3 turns is that I've spent A LOT of time working on my outside edges on the hockey circle in prep for front crossovers (another scary one for me). I think that a lot of people in my LTS class "do" the front xo's but don't really focus on the outside edge....my chickenness has helped me in that I always spend so much time going around the circle getting the edge and feeling comfortable before working up the courage to pick up my foot and cross over. Forget about back xo's...I am way too wimpy to try them yet!

I can do backward crossovers well, but not forwards (no hope as of yet :frus: )... but took me ages, so dont fret. :)

With 3 turns, I am finding that I want to put that free foot down right afterwards, because I don't feel comfy with backwards glides on one foot yet. As a matter of fact, when I try to skate backwards and lift that one foot, I just can't get the balance...any tricks? I think that my backward one foot glide is something that I'm going to have to get good at to see much progression in my 3 turns.

Bend your knees more... (Ive been told this a million times plus, but its true, so Im going to pass it on ;) ) also, just keep practising.. it can take a while to get used to your centre of balance whilst going backwards. I dont even have it yet on my back stroking (but thats mainly due to posture :roll: :lol: )

I had a bad habit of immediately putting my foot down as well.. I found this was because I swung my free leg too much, putting me off balance... and I was freaked out about going backwards ;) ... I found a good technique to get around it was to push off, then tuck my back foot into the t-position, keeping my toes up so I didnt toe pick it... this centred my weight more because I didnt have to worry about my torso, then my skating leg, then my free leg... it was all in one compacted area :)

But of course... practise :) Im sure we'll see you on here soon telling us all about how you managed them!!!