Ask 50 people, get 50 answers... [Archive]

dbny

02-01-2006, 01:22 PM

OK. Need new blades. Currently in Pattern 99. Doing mif, some single jumps, chasing an elusive scratch spin. Adult, started late (age 46) skating 7 years. Coach says go to Gold Seal, his personal favorite, and the favorite of my former coach in NY. Heard good things. Lacking a little confidence, i.e. "do I deserve this blade?" Getting mixed reviews from friends. So, just wondering what you guys have to say???????

Speaking as the mom of a skater on Gold Seals, a basic skills coach, and as a late onset skater myself (started at 53, now almost 59): It has nothing to do with deserving. IMO, you don't need Pattern 99's much less Gold Seals. Those blades benefit skaters doing doubles and up. It's a waste of money for you (and me, just to be fair here). The Pattern 99 is a fairly flat blade and is lower to the ice than others, which makes spinning more difficult, and could be why you are still chasing the elusive scratch spin. Try the Coronation Ace, which is easier to spin on and is the blade most skaters use for learning singles and Axels. You will save yourself a bundle of money. And don't forget that Gold Seals are difficult to sharpen and one bad sharpening can ruin them.

The fact that Gold Seals are your coach's personal favorite should have nothing to do with your choice. If your coach is a high level skater who started as a kid, then he is wedded to the blade by almost a lifetime of experience which is nothing like your 7 years of experience rather late in life. My personal favorite boot is Klingbeil custom, but I would never recommend it to my beginning students because they don't need it, and they have not yet committed to skating enough to ever need it. My daughter loves her Gold Seals, but I will never be doing Axels and doubles, so I would not even consider it for myself. If you had been skating one year and had all your singles and were working on your Axel and doubles, then it might make sense for you to buy Gold Seals.

TashaKat

02-01-2006, 01:42 PM

I use Gold Seals and used Gold Seals as a fairly novice skater as I got some cheap by accident (not knowing what I was buying). I LOVE them and would always buy them (or something similar) again. HOWEVER ... if you're happy in the Pattern 99s I can see absolutely no reason whatsoever to change to a blade which may or may not suit you.

A lot of people love the Coronation Ace blades, I didn't get on with them but I am very much in the minority. I found them slow and didn't feel as 'safe' in them.

Like boots to a certain extent it's what suits you and also like boots it can often be a mistake to buy a 'better' blade as they can cause more problems than they will fix. Just because it's top end doesn't mean that it will improve your skating :) I wish it did .....

Things that I like about the Gold Seal are that I found the security of the edges to be better, I could be a lot braver in them. I found spins more difficult (but I'm not a 'spinner' anyway). I found jumps (both edge and toe) easier.

Stick with what you're happy with :)

Isk8NYC

02-01-2006, 01:48 PM

ITA with DBNY that the Gold Seal shouldn't be chosen because of favoritism, but because of need. I've used Gold Seals since 1983, I believe.

I switched from Pattern 99's to those Gold Seals and my spins did improve. (Thanks for explaining why, DB) At the time I was a young adult doing axels/doubles and flying camels. I no longer "NEED" Gold Seals based on how I skate today. I tried to go back to Pattern 99's a few years ago and really struggled with centering spins, which has never been a problem. Also found myself rocking off the heel of the blade constantly. (Maybe the tail is shorter?)

I returned to Gold Seals and I can skate well again. I don't do doubles anymore, so technically it's "too much" blade for me. But, it's what I'm "used to" using, and it would take a lot of work for me to change back to Pattern 99's.

Sharpening Gold Seals is an issue - I drive an hour to get a sharpening because I don't trust the nearby pro shops with these blades. The initial cost alone makes you want to take good care of them. (Not that I actually wear my hard guards. LOL) I've had uneven edges, altered profiles, and clipped heel edges from poor sharpenings.

I know of several high-level adult skaters who use Pattern 99's for freestyle with no problem. Why do you want to change blades? Are your current ones worn down to the soft steel? Maybe you really need a good figure sharpening. I'd try that before buying new ones, unless you're getting new boots and this is part of the planning.

NaomiBeth1

02-01-2006, 02:51 PM

I know of several high-level adult skaters who use Pattern 99's for freestyle with no problem. Why do you want to change blades?

Yep, and I'm one of them. I'm a Silver skater using Pattern 99's for quite awhile. I've never had a problem with them and have no plans to change.

jwrnsktr

02-01-2006, 05:33 PM

The reason I need new blades is this. I have been using Pattern 99's for the past two years. The blades before that were Coronation Aces. They were OK, but I liked the 99's better. I always had some trouble of the left moves, but chalked it up to just being stronger on the right side. I skate at least three days a week so I want a quality blade. I moved one state to another and had my blades sharpened in a pro shop. I noticed that after that sharpening, I was pulling up a lot of snow on the left and it was making a scraping noise no matter what I did. Eventually I worked it out, but it was annoying for awhile. And, I never felt truly comfortable with the left boot. I needed another sharpening so I tried a different guy. When he returned the blades, I no longer had any edge on the left - the right boot was fine, the left was worse than a rental. I had tremendous lateral movement and could not grab an edge at all. I sent them back to him and he tried again, but called the next morning and said that not only was my blade twisted, but there was no more steel on the left front of the blade. When I saw them I could see why I couldn't get a grip on the ice. Right behind the toepick is no steel whatsoever. In fact, the blade looks scalloped out. So, I need new blades. At that point, my coach said to get the Gold Seals. I started asking around, and like the title of the thread, I've gotten so many different responses that I became confused and started the thread. Still interested and appreciate any suggestions or shared experiences. Thanx!

Joan

02-01-2006, 06:43 PM

I use pattern 99's and have never tried Gold Seals - I do have problems with spins. When I switched to Pattern 99 from Phantoms about 4 or 5 years ago, my spins got much easier and I took that as a very positive development. It is possible though that my Phantoms had been badly sharpened too many times and no longer had their original rocker shape.

coskater64

02-01-2006, 07:42 PM

I use pattern 99's and have for years, mine also have the k pick but that's not an issue for you. I love them and I spin pretty well, I've never tried gold seals but I hear they are nice as well. In all honesty if you aren't doing doubles and high level moves, etc. it's a lot of blade. Either one.8O

Debbie S

02-01-2006, 10:01 PM

I skate 3 times a week, am doing single jumps, and I have MK Pros. I'm with the others on this board that say Pattern 99s and Gold Seals are a bit beyond your level. When I was at Klingbeil getting my new skates, I was discussing blade and boot weight, etc., with the younger Klingbeil and he told me that Sasha Cohen uses Gold Seals and that they are relatively heavy blades (Sasha and I are about the same size...well, I have a bit more body fat). That gives you an idea of what level of skating Gold Seals are designed for. I think I read somewhere once that Todd Eldredge uses Gold Seals.

It sounds like the sharpeners in your area aren't the best - if Gold Seals are difficult to sharpen, then you definitely wouldn't want to have those guys work on them. If you really like the Pattern 99s, then stick with them, but be careful about sharpenings.

Remember, any of the blades mentioned on this thread are "quality blades". You don't need to spend $400 or more to get a good blade that will last a while and get you through all your singles and axel and maybe some doubles, depending on how far you want to go. My MK Pros are just under $200 and they've held up quite well.

Chico

02-01-2006, 10:18 PM

I would see if I could find used good blades first. Otherwise I agree on the pattern 99's. You deserve good blades, just don't buy more than you need. Think about it. If, IF, you plan on working on doubles and harder moves in the future new gold seals might be wise. As an adult our feet don't grow and you can get many years out of your blades. I have gold stars and love them.

Chico

doubletoe

02-01-2006, 10:58 PM

Is there some reason you prefer blades with a 8' rocker instead of a 7' rocker? I find a 7' radius easier to spin on because I can find my sweet spot better on the rounder blade. If you are open to a 7' radius blade, an MK Professional or Vision is a very high quality blade without the features that make the more expensive blades hard to sharpen (i.e., side-honed and/or tapered).

Isk8NYC

02-02-2006, 08:56 AM

A last bit of advice: when you get new blades, whatever your decision, take the time to have an experienced professional put them on. You can buy them whereever you want, but start looking for someone to mount them now, so you'll have your plan in order.

For the cost of a blade mounting fee (under $40 US) you can save yourself a lot of aggravation. I'm speaking from experience: when I last switched from Pattern 99's to Gold Seals, I impulsively let the person who sold me the blades mount them on my boots and sharpen them. I didn't know that the salesman was not a figure skating expert. He tried to reuse the same holes in the boots when he mounted the blade. I ended up with a very expensive torqued blade that gave me a different edge on the front of my left boot from the back. When you looked down the blade, you could actually see it bend. After trips to Klingbeil and another pro shop, I ended up with Jim in Hackensack who finally fixed the mess. Never again!

jwrnsktr

02-02-2006, 09:44 AM

Yes, you have all named all of my fears! I sent the blades and boots back to the guy I used in NY, who is very good has years of experience and is used by many coaches and top level skaters. I have had Klingbeils but switched to Jacksons. OK, now who can tell me what the difference is in the 8' and 7' rocker? I don't get it and haven't found a good explanation. There have been replies saying spinning goes better on the 99's and some say the Gold Seals. Believe me, I need all the help I can get. Spinning is the monkey on my back. I have tried spinning in four different kinds of blades, (two were beginner blades, then the Aces and 99's) with at least 6 diffeent coaches, and still cannot manage more than a halfway decent two foot and a minimally decent, happens sometimes, one foot. Forget scratch. Some ppl are just not spinners and I'm thinking I'm one of them. I know you'll ask me next why so many coaching changes, but I stick to the same coach, occasionally get a different perspective, but I go to the adult camps and work on spins with everyone to try and catch it. It remains out of my grasp. As far as sharpening goes, the pro in NY has a lot of experience sharpening Gold Seals. Not saying I'm getting them, just information here. So, my decision is still hanging there. I know I don't have to decide anything til Saturday when the NY guy looks at the blades, tells me what happened, and puts his two cents in. What I will probably do is go with the recommendation of my current coach, my former coach, and then weigh in what all of you say. So, thanks in advance. Further discussion more than welcome...........

jwrnsktr

02-02-2006, 09:46 AM

To ISk8NYC: How did the guy in Hackensack finally fix the mess? Did he take the torque out of the blade? That is exactly what was happening with my left blade too. I don't know how I have managed to skate with it, after I saw what it looked like. Wonder why no one else noted it was twisted.

dbny

02-02-2006, 11:10 AM

OK, now who can tell me what the difference is in the 8' and 7' rocker? I don't get it and haven't found a good explanation. There have been replies saying spinning goes better on the 99's and some say the Gold Seals.

The bottom profile of a blade (the part in contact with the ice) follows the arc (curve) of a circle. The rocker is a measurement of that arc. When the circle has a radius of 8', then the rocker is said to be 8'. Likewise with 7'; the rocker is an arc of a circle with a 7' radius. Of course a circle with a larger radius is a bigger circle, making the little bit of it that matches the bottom profile of the blade flatter than that of a smaller circle. A flatter blade give you more contact with the ice as you skate, making turns and spins more difficult. Because you spin on the little bit of blade just behind the toe pick, if you have a smaller rocker, you have to go up a little more to get to that part of the blade and it is easier to keep the rest of the blade from scraping and grinding your spin to a halt. If you have a larger rocker, making the blade flatter, you don't have so far to go to reach the spin spot, making it more difficult to keep the rest of the blade off the ice. In theory, the flatter blade (larger rocker) is harder to spin on for that reason. Nevertheless, some people just naturally do better on it. Hope that helped.

Isk8NYC

02-02-2006, 11:10 AM

He removed the blade and used a vise to hold it straight. Then he plugged the holes in the sole and re-mounted the blade where it belonged. The vise held it straight.

Once it was on properly, he then did a normal blade mounting/adjustment. One thing I really like about Hackensack is that there's always ice available. Jim had me actually skate a bit during a freestyle to try out the adjustments.

jwrnsktr

02-02-2006, 11:30 AM

Wow, thanks for all the information. There is no one here where I live, that I know about that has the kind of expertise you find in Hackensack. The info on the radius/rocker bit was very interesting and I thank you for taking the time. J

Debbie S

02-02-2006, 03:08 PM

Then he plugged the holes in the sole and re-mounted the blade where it belonged. So when you get new blades, they shouldn't be mounted in the old holes? I never knew that. (Or is it just certain types of blades or if you're changing blade models?)

I just got blades (MK Pro) mounted on my Klingbeils today. I chose to go to a rink/shop 1 hour and 15 min away b/c of a lack of good fitters/mounters in my immediate area. Fortunately, this guy's new shop (he used to be a bit closer to me, but still a trip) is at a rink, and he went with me as I skated on the public session and he had me do straight-line 1-foot glides and crossovers and edges to make sure the mounting worked. I was surprised to learn that Klingbeil requires blades to be mounted straight down the center or they refuse to fix any future problems with the skates (WTF? :?? ) and I pronate quite a bit so my current mounting on my SP-Teris is way inside. He (Mike Cunningham in Waldorf, MD) told me to try it for a while and if there's really a problem, the mounting can always be changed.

stardust skies

02-02-2006, 06:07 PM

Forgive me if I repeat things that have already been said- I didn't read the replies because I don't have time to right now.

I think you're already in way too advanced a blade for what you're doing. You don't have a scratch spin and you're on a blade designed for triple jumps. The Pattern 99 and Gold Seal both have an 8 ft radius...which is harder to spin in. People that are still learning singles and basic spins do much, much better in 7 ft radius blades, such as the MK Pro. Coronation Aces are also good (and I believe they're 7ft. radius as well). I don't know what on earth your coach could possibly thinking, to think that you need to be on the blades that will be most worn at the Olympics this month. Gold Seals are for advanced freestyle- so are Pattern 99's. Wait at LEAST until you have some doubles before getting either blade again, IMO. Too much blade is not only going to not help, it's going to hurt you. That radius is too flat for a beginner. And the top pick rake on the Gold Seal requires a much more skilled jumper than the Mk Pro, Coronation Ace, or even the Pattern 99. The way it's cut, you better be very good at picking and griping the ice, or you'll constantly miss.

It's also $400 extra that could go towards lesson and learning more about the sport, rather than on a super advanced blade you do not need. Please give the MK Pros or Coronation Aces a try! Good luck.

Skate@Delaware

02-02-2006, 07:15 PM

I skate in Coronation Comets (8.5' radius) and they are fine for me. I will say that spinning was a challenge but then so am I :lol: . Once everything I was doing wrong was fixed, spinning became easier. At my rink, the progression is: stock blade, Comets, Pattern 99 (or specialty like synchro or dance blades). I don't believe anyone (student) has anything beyond the Pattern 99. I'm not sure what all the coaches have.

That being said, I wonder if something with a smaller (8.0 or 7.5) would have been better for me and would be better in keeping me off my toepicks (especially when skating backwards). Sort of "compensating" for what my body is having difficulty in doing (it would be like getting a 7.0 rocker for spinning problems). Any comments or ideas on that?

icedancer2

02-02-2006, 07:31 PM

That being said, I wonder if something with a smaller (8.0 or 7.5) would have been better for me and would be better in keeping me off my toepicks (especially when skating backwards). Sort of "compensating" for what my body is having difficulty in doing (it would be like getting a 7.0 rocker for spinning problems). Any comments or ideas on that?

I don't really know what the answer is for you, but I can say that watching MOST adults who start skating as a adult, there is the problem with staying off the toepicks when going backwards. I think that there is a trick to keeping your weight on the ball of your foot and not leaning forward that is hard to learn. Once you get it you're fine -- I would think that the flatter blade (the Comets) would make it easier to stay off of the picks.

BUT there is one thing that I haven't seen mentioned on this board, and that is when you get new blades the arc from the rocker to the toepicks seems to be steeper -- whenever I've gotten new blades, whatever they are, there has been the tendency to fall forwards towards the picks. As the skates are sharpened repeatedly and the rocker gets flatter and flatter this arc tends to disappear and there is less tendency to fall forward.

Bending at the ankle and keeping the weight over the foot would probably help, too -- and like I mentioned in another thread, and I think these new-fangled, overly-stiff boots make it hard to really bend deeply at the ankle.

At least that has been my experience.

And as far as blades go, I agree with Stardust Skies -- the Coronation Ace or MK Pro is a perfectly great blade for most people doing freestyle and Moves -- I mean, that blade has been around FOREVER (well, at least since the '60s when I first started skating) and have been perfectly good for most skaters, IMHO.

dbny

02-02-2006, 08:16 PM

I was surprised to learn that Klingbeil requires blades to be mounted straight down the center or they refuse to fix any future problems with the skates (WTF? :?? )

WTF indeed! I don't know where you heard that, but it is entirely UNTRUE. The last time I was at Klingbeil's, which was within the past three months, I clearly remember Don explaining to a customer that the blades are NOT mounted in line with the center seam, and that the mounting depends on each individual's stance. Since I was there, myself, to have my left blade moved a bit, there is also that as evidence.

Debbie S

02-02-2006, 08:47 PM

WTF indeed! I don't know where you heard that, but it is entirely UNTRUE. Well, they (Klingbeil) drew a mark at the top of each sole at the center to mark where the blades should be mounted (they told me they were going to do this). Today, when I showed Mike my current mounting to remind him about it, he showed me a letter/edict that he received from Klingbeil (I didn't see a date - it was a form letter that they apparently sent to all of their dealers/fitters/pro shops) that said they would void the warranty on any boot where the blades weren't mounted down the center. Mike said that is a disadvantage to using Klingbeils. He said that Klingbeil believes they correct any individual problems with pronation or other issues with each boot's design.

It's possible that this policy only applies to outside fitters and shops - a trust/confidence issue. I told my coach about it at the rink tonight and she said that they're probably worried someone would mount blades incorrectly and cause injury or boot breakdown and then Klingbeil would have to fix someone else's mistake.

My coach said to give it a couple of weeks with the new boots and if there is a problem, to then consider moving the mounting, which is basically what Mike said. My worry is that after working so hard to strike the correct edges on my Bronze moves, I'll get out of whack and skate on flats again. And I do want to re-test in the near future - it's only 11 months until next year's AN deadline - lol.

stardust skies

02-03-2006, 01:50 AM

Well, the Klingbeil disclaimer does seem insane...however, it's also true what the person above me said that they probably believe every problem with pronation or sickling or whatever else can be fixed within the boot- and I think they're probably right in thinking this. If I remember correctly, Klingbeil does ONLY customs now- a good custom boot would correct problems with each person's foot, and thus there would be no need to put a blade not in the center. Actually, if you walked into a pro shop and told them you pronated or whatever, then they would mount the blades somewhere other than in the center, but if you ordered boots from Klingbeil, they would have noticed from your tracings that your arches were off (or flat, or whatever) and have made the bottom of the boot according to this, and then the fitter mounting the blade to compensate for your pronation when Klingbeil already designed the boot to compensate for it would be overload and probably would screw you up entirely. So, if the boot corrects your foot problem, you don't need your blade anywhere but in the middle. And since I believe all Klingbeils are now custom, they are expected to fix the problem. I have a *lot* of foot problems, but my boots take care of it, so my blades are dead center and I've never had my foot problems affect my edges in any way.

Just my theory on this.

As a side note, Skate@Delaware...I'm always baffled to hear of people skating on 8.5 ft radius blades...especially people not doing triples and such (there is a general concensus that the flatter the blade, the harder to skate in it is so it would be a real struggle for someone not incredibly skilled already, IMO). I can't imagine skating on an 8.5...I'm on an 8 and it's perfect. I guess if that's what you started out in then you don't know the difference, and maybe it is right for some people (maybe even for you) but if I were you I'd think about going down to at least an 8 ft rocker. Ideally, I'd think going down to an 8ft and then on the pair after than down to a 7ft (so it's not too big of a shock, although if you're feeling brave you could just get the 7ft and spend a week getting used to it, which probably isn't that bad). It really does make everything easier for you when you're with a 7ft...especially spins. Just something to think about!

Isk8NYC

02-03-2006, 07:09 AM

So when you get new blades, they shouldn't be mounted in the old holes? I never knew that. (Or is it just certain types of blades or if you're changing blade models?)

If you're changing blade models or sizes, you should NEVER expect to be able to reuse holes. If you're replacing perfectly aligned blades with the same model/size you can reuse the holes. Just make sure they line up the same way -- manufacturers make subtle changes to blades from year to year.

I was surprised to learn that Klingbeil requires blades to be mounted straight down the center or they refuse to fix any future problems with the skates (WTF? :?? )

Who made that statement to you? It's not true, in fact, Bill Klingbeil is the person who put on my blades perfectly with my old Klingbeil boots. Set slightly to the inside on my left foot, as needed. Perhaps with mail order blade mounting, that's their standard procedure. Mountings should really be done in person, IMHO.

crayonskater

02-03-2006, 07:29 AM

I have a dumb question: if 7' rockers are so much easier, then why does anyone skate on an 8'? Is the trade-off between spinning and edge security?

Skate@Delaware

02-03-2006, 10:05 AM

As a side note, Skate@Delaware...I'm always baffled to hear of people skating on 8.5 ft radius blades...especially people not doing triples and such (there is a general concensus that the flatter the blade, the harder to skate in it is so it would be a real struggle for someone not incredibly skilled already, IMO). I can't imagine skating on an 8.5...I'm on an 8 and it's perfect. I guess if that's what you started out in then you don't know the difference, and maybe it is right for some people (maybe even for you) but if I were you I'd think about going down to at least an 8 ft rocker. Ideally, I'd think going down to an 8ft and then on the pair after than down to a 7ft (so it's not too big of a shock, although if you're feeling brave you could just get the 7ft and spend a week getting used to it, which probably isn't that bad). It really does make everything easier for you when you're with a 7ft...especially spins. Just something to think about!
Comets are the "recommended" blade here. Now that I know better (and have asked just about all the skaters at my rink) almost everyone skates in them and every coach recommends them regardless :roll: ... My coach said they are better for jump landing stability.

Unfortunately, my blades had already been bought and paid for (and they must be shipped by the slooow boat as it's been 3 weeks) so unless someone wants to buy a set of 10" Coronation Comets for $200.....I'm stuck with them for a while. However, this info will help me in ordering blades for my daughter, as I was contemplating Aces or Pattern 99. She is a much better skater than I am and has started working on a double salchow. I think she will do well with that kind of blade. Her boots have been special ordered (weird feet).

techskater

02-03-2006, 10:42 AM

7' Rocker gives you a bigger sweet spot to spin, 8' rocker has more blade to ice contact and therefore a better glide out on jumps and more speed for less work.

stardust skies

02-04-2006, 04:16 AM

I have a dumb question: if 7' rockers are so much easier, then why does anyone skate on an 8'? Is the trade-off between spinning and edge security?

There are advantages to skating on an 8 ft rocker, namely, they are much faster blades. People like/need flatter blades for different reasons...personally, my jumps can get a little swingy at times and on a 7 ft rocker they were a little out of control. Obviously I've progressed heaps since I last wore a 7 ft rocker and have learned that I just wasn't checking my jumps enough, but switching to an 8 ft really helped me get my jumps more secure and my entries less swingy, and really *feel* that need to check my jumps more. I was working on doubles when I switched though, my singles were nice and clean and checked. It's also easier (for me) to do footwork sequences as the edges grab better and feel like they are more defined.

I don't think someone still working out 3-turns or single jumps would notice much improvement by having an 8ft rocker though, because those are simple enough moves that you should have no problems doing them in 7 ft rockers, and even if there were a slight advantage to a flatter blade for some things, it wouldn't be worth it to make it that much harder on yourself to learn spins and at the basic level, it is really important to fix all technique issues before resorting to upgrading blades to fix it for you. If you do that so soon, by the time you *are* doing doubles, you'll have nowhere to go! It does seem wrong that you would be planning on using the same blade to learn one foot spins and single jumps as you would for death drops and triple axels, no? And yet people who do land triple axels do use Gold Seals, mainly. I think the equipment should progress with the technique, not the other way around.

Either way back to the 7ft vs 8ft and why anyone would bother with 8 ft...I think the main reason is really speed. And my whole point is that when you're working on single jumps and one foot spins, you don't need THAT much extra speed that you should place this benefit above getting a blade that's easier to spin on and do basic edges on and use the toepick on (because the Gold Seal and Pattern 99 toepicks ARE a pain to get used to, and they're both drastically different) the way 7 ft are. Once you are a proficient spinner and have solid single/double jumps, switching to an 8 ft rocker will not hold any downsides, and that's the idea...when you're ready for it, the switch will not hold you back, if you do it too soon, I think it'll only hinder you. I didn't lose any spins when switching to an 8ft rocker, but it probably would've taken me a lot longer to learn them had I not had really secure spins before making the switch. You can feel that it's harder to hook and center spins...but if you know how to spin well already, it will not bother you or affect you at all. The only people that would suffer from an 8 ft rocker are people who aren't yet comfortable with the basics of freestyle.

Just my very subjective thoughts on this. Obviously, no matter what, to each their own. I just think that skating (at any age) is hard enough, there is no reason to make it harder just for the glory of having advanced blades, or even just for the false belief that more advanced = better for everybody. More advanced = better for more advanced skaters. It makes sense when you think about it. There's nothing beyond the Gold Seal. It's as good as it gets. So, get the blade when you think that's true of your skating, too. ;)

stardust skies

02-04-2006, 04:23 AM

Comets are the "recommended" blade here. Now that I know better (and have asked just about all the skaters at my rink) almost everyone skates in them and every coach recommends them regardless :roll: ... My coach said they are better for jump landing stability.

Well, your coach is actually right- they are better for jump landing stability. But as I said in my super long winded post above, if she's reccommending them to people learning single jumps because of this, it's a little pointless as you shouldn't have any stability problems landing singles anyways, if you do, the technique needs to be fixed ASAP...you know? And either way I don't think it's a big enough advantage to compromise ease of spinning, especially if you have students who are just in the middle of learning spins. But as I also said above to each their own and hey it sounds like they haven't worked out too badly for you so more power to you! I could not imagine skating on anything flatter than what I have (which is 8ft) so you are basically my hero. :D And by working on spins in this blade, you're really going to have it easy if you ever switch to an 8ft or 7ft, so there are plenty of upsides, too.

Good luck on your daughter's skates!

Skate@Delaware

02-04-2006, 06:48 AM

crayonskater

02-04-2006, 09:05 AM

Thanks for the detailed replies! -- I just had an honest question! No worries, not planning on buying an elite level blade here. I'm still in my Ultima Mirages, happy with them, just was curious about the 8' rocker they have. I do like spinning, though, so maybe a spinnier blade would be better the next time I upgrade.

icedancer2

02-04-2006, 11:23 AM

Well, I told him my new shorter Comets have already been ordered and he said to let my daughter have them (ha, ha, ha). If I could, I would!!!

What's a "new, shorter Comet"?

I ask because I am looking for a blade that is not as short as my dance blades, but not as long as a regular freestyle blade. Might this be the "new, shorter Comet"?

Thanks. I don't mean to co-opt this thread.

Skate@Delaware

02-04-2006, 11:32 AM

What's a "new, shorter Comet"?

I ask because I am looking for a blade that is not as short as my dance blades, but not as long as a regular freestyle blade. Might this be the "new, shorter Comet"?

Thanks. I don't mean to co-opt this thread.

Oh, yeah I guess I should have been more specific to say "my new blades that will fit my smaller boots" which are 10" vs 10.5".......(the blades, I mean)

Have you tried looking at synchro blades? some of them are in-between and might suit you.

stardust skies

02-04-2006, 11:54 PM

Stardust:
Thanks for the info. I did talk to a coach last nigh (not mine) about blades. His are Aces and he has the most awesome spins. He was astonished that I'm in Comets (and able to spin-doh). He also recommended Aces. Well, I told him my new shorter Comets have already been ordered and he said to let my daughter have them (ha, ha, ha). If I could, I would!!!

Well, there is really no reason that you couldn't cancel your order and switch. I mean, unless you order custom boots, you can always change your mind, even after something has arrived. They can always keep it in their stock and sell it to someone else later, or return the item to the dealer if they do not think they will be able to sell it. So long as you haven't skated on your new blades (and clearly you have not since they aren't even there yet), you should be able to return them, that's just normal customer service in any store. Even if they've arrived, just ask for them to be sent back. You're sticking with the same brand so this should be even less of an issue. Just tell them the truth- that you've gathered more information about different blades and feel that you need to switch in order to progress. No pro-shop should refuse this, if they do, call the dealer directly.

Good luck!!

PS: Pattern 99 are great blades, so long as your daughter does not have any problems with toepick slippage on pick jumps. If she does, it's the wrong blade for her as you really have to be able to reach far back to get that top toe pick under you. But if she doesn't, you're golden!

aussieskater

02-05-2006, 04:27 AM

Skate@Delaware

02-05-2006, 06:54 AM

Time for a really dumb question. I think I now sort of know the benefits of 7' versus 8' (thanks, guys! :)), so wonder if it's possible if a good sharpener could reduce the rocker slightly (from say 8' to 7.5' - I already worked out that you couldn't go from 8.5' to 7' !!)? Also, am I right in assuming that it is possible to increase the rocker, and that this happens naturally with repeated sharpenings once the "point of no return" has been reached?
Yes, sometimes this happens (sometimes unintentionally). My sharpener also asks if you need to have the rocker "checked". But you need to have your original blade tracing for that. He lines up the blade and the tracing and sees how far "off" the blade is. He can adjust it back closer to the original, but not by much.
You have to be careful changing one blade's rocker to a different setting, as that also changes how much "sharpening metal" there is left on the blade. Change it too much and you could be left with less life in the blade.

stardust skies

02-05-2006, 07:01 PM

You don't necessarily need the original tracing- a lot of figure skating pro shops have plastic "rulers" from each blade manufacturer with the rocker curvature and they can measure that to your blade. It's much more fool-proof than a tracing, anyhow. But I wouldn't toy around with trying to adjust a rocker...the odds of it turning out right are pretty small. If you want a different rocker, get a different blade. I know this is sort of "duh" statement, but seriously- don't risk butchering your blades and confusing your body without even really knowing what rocker you'll end up with. Too risky.

doubletoe

02-06-2006, 02:57 PM

[QUOTE=stardust skies]
Either way back to the 7ft vs 8ft and why anyone would bother with 8 ft...I think the main reason is really speed. And my whole point is that when you're working on single jumps and one foot spins, you don't need THAT much extra speed that you should place this benefit above getting a blade that's easier to spin on and do basic edges on and use the toepick on (because the Gold Seal and Pattern 99 toepicks ARE a pain to get used to, and they're both drastically different) the way 7 ft are. Once you are a proficient spinner and have solid single/double jumps, switching to an 8 ft rocker will not hold any downsides, and that's the idea...when you're ready for it, the switch will not hold you back, if you do it too soon, I think it'll only hinder you. I didn't lose any spins when switching to an 8ft rocker, but it probably would've taken me a lot longer to learn them had I not had really secure spins before making the switch. You can feel that it's harder to hook and center spins...but if you know how to spin well already, it will not bother you or affect you at all. The only people that would suffer from an 8 ft rocker are people who aren't yet comfortable with the basics of freestyle. [QUOTE]
I totally agree. I am more of a jumper than a spinner and I don't have problems with speed, so I do much better on blades with a 7' rocker. They make spins much easier!

Skate@Delaware

02-06-2006, 08:21 PM

stardust skies

02-06-2006, 09:44 PM

Okay, here is the million dollar dilemma: when I went to the pro-shop (and found out my Comets were in) and asked about switching to Aces (no big deal), my other coach was saying how much a step down they will be for me and how tiny the toe-pick was compared to the Comet and I would regret it.....meanwhile, back at the ranch (pro-shop), figure-skating person behind desk asks why not Pattern 99's 8O .

Okay, I'm buggin' now.

I'm to the point of saying "f" it and give me the Comets so I can get back on the road (gotta break the boots in before the show; hey, didn't I do this last year?)

At least daughter will get the Pattern 99's. But I'm not buying them from my pro-shop :halo: . I don't want to get cross-examined (again).

Unless you are talking about FOUR ACES, this is not true about the Ace toepick being any smaller than yours- the Ace's is actually slightly bigger (more on that later).

Coronation Aces are the all-around freestyle blades for learning singles and doubles and most spins. They are one step down from Pattern 99/Phantoms, and Pattern 99 is way too much blade for you IMHO. They're good once you already have axel and some doubles- but that toepick is HUGEEEEE and was the bane of my existence for two years. You have be very precise with your picking to hit that top toe pick (I also always used to trip over it because it protuded so much), and the pick is straight-cut (like yours), which makes for very little grip on the ice when jumping. It's also a much shorter blade (in height, from bottom of boot to the ice) and will be harder to spin on, and finally, it's an 8 ft rocker, which really isn't much better than what you have in regards to ease of use.

The Coronation Aces are the same level as the MK Professionals, which I personally learned most of my doubles on. They are great blades. I only said stick to Aces because you are already in John Wilson with the Comets and I do not know if you wanna switch brands or if the pro shop would let you return John Wilson blades for MK ones, but either brand and model is really fine. Both blades are equally good and should serve you through at LEAST double loop.

In the end, aside for the toepick (which I compared in pics in the next paragraph), the only real difference between both of these blades and your Coronation Comets is the size of the radius, the disadvantage of yours having already been talked about ad-nauseum above. No offense, but it sounds like your coach is really biased/doesn't really know what they are talking about, and like the dude at the pro shop is just trying to make money off your back like they always do by trying to sell you something WAYYYYYY more expensive and advanced than you actually want/need.

Here are some comparisons for ya regarding the toepick issue:

Coronation Ace: http://riedellskates.com/blades/jw-coronace.html
Coronation Comet: http://riedellskates.com/blades/jw-coroncomet.html

As you can see, the Ace has a larger toepick, and also what I consider to be a better toepick, especially for single/double jumps learners, as it's crosscut so that you get better grab on jumps. The Comet has straight cut teeth, which makes it harder to grab the ice when jumping off the toepick. Also, from the description, it seems very clear that the makers consider the Comet to actually be a step down from the Ace.

But make sure you ask for CORONATION Ace, and not Four Aces, which while being a step up from the Comet because it has a 7 ft rocker, has the same toepick as the Comet (straight cut), and doesn't benefit from the enhanced crosscut toepick of the Coronation Ace. Here's a description of the Four Aces: http://riedellskates.com/blades/jw-fouraces.html

For further reference, here's the MK Pro blade: http://riedellskates.com/blades/mk-professional.html

and the Pattern 99 blade (which is the only blade not even in the "freestyle" section, but "advanced freestyle section", to show you how far off this dude really is from the right suggestion): http://riedellskates.com/blades/jw-pattern99.html.

Most of the time, it's better to leave decisions like these to your coach, but sometimes, it's better to just educate yourself to death on a topic and then make your own choices. I think this is one of such cases. I really reccommend you consider the Coronation Ace or MK Professional as a replacement blade, and not to let yourself be pushed by your coach or pro shop guy, or your own impatience with this ordeal. If you feel the Comet is best for you, so be it, but make sure it's your own decision, not some form of conformity on your part to make anyone else happy or get it over with faster.

Good luck!

doubletoe

02-06-2006, 10:22 PM

Once again, I totally agree with Stardust Skies. I would definitely recommend MK Professionals, and if Coronation Aces are similar, they should be an excellent blade for you. Sure, they'll take a little getting used to, but any new blade does, even when you buy the same blade you just had.

doubletoe

02-06-2006, 10:25 PM

dbny

02-06-2006, 11:41 PM

Oh, I meant to add, it is SURPRISING how few coaches are up-to-date on the technical specifications of different boots and blades. I would go as far as to say "shocking."

Most coaches were skaters as kids and have been using the same blade models for a very long time. Same with boots. They really don't know a lot about the equipment they don't use themselves.

BTW, Wilson and MK are now one and the same, although they have maintained their separate brand names. I don't recall which company bought out the other.

Skate@Delaware

02-07-2006, 07:41 AM

I'm going to ask my private coach for her opinion, then I will make my decision. I'll let you guys know!

Mrs Redboots

02-07-2006, 09:08 AM

BTW, Wilson and MK are now one and the same, although they have maintained their separate brand names. I don't recall which company bought out the other.Wilson bought out MK, I believe.

Yes, I third, or is it fourth, the recommendation for Coronation Ace - they're a wonderful blade! I have since upgraded to John Watson Dance, which is very nearly too much blade for me, but the Husband is happy with Coronation Dance, which is the dance version of the Coronation Ace.

icedancer2

02-07-2006, 12:05 PM

I also agree that the Coronation Ace would be a better blade for you.

Pattern 99? What are they THINKING???? :roll: 8O

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

Kelli

02-07-2006, 01:29 PM

Oh, I meant to add, it is SURPRISING how few coaches are up-to-date on the technical specifications of different boots and blades. I would go as far as to say "shocking." Unlike most of their students, we are ADULTS and therefore just as capable of researching the specs on blades and making a good, educated decision as to what would be a good choice. I find myself actually telling my coaches about this stuff.

I had the same discussion with some coaches at the rink yesterday. We have an excellent local skate guy, and the coaches PREFER to leave most boot and some blade decisions up to him. Many boots have been redesigned in the past few years, and that's a lot to keep up to date with for a coach. Most of them know more about blades, but still prefer to have the skate tech make the decisions. Yes, in an ideal world, a coach would know the key feature of every boot and blade on the market, but I'd rather my coach spend the time being up to date on the actual skating side of the sport and leave the equipment to the experts (this logic only works if you know you have a good skate tech).

One common feature I've found in the good skate fitters is that they rarely, if ever, try to sell you more than you need. I asked my skate guy if he thought my boots needed to be replaced, he looked at them carefully, and told me they had at least a few more months of life in them. These boots are 6 years old and look it; if he'd said he thought they were going, I would have bought a new pair. Same deal with blades - I was buying new ones, and asked what kind he suggested. I'm working on Junior moves, getting my Axel consistent, and some doubles. He could have easily said to upgrade based on my level, but instead said if I was happy with the MK Professionals, there was no reason to upgrade. I guess the logic is that he KNOWS he's good - he'll get my money eventually.

Skate@Delaware

02-07-2006, 02:59 PM

We do not have a boot fitter at my rink, the people in the pro shop (except for one person who does figure skate) are not knowledgeable about anything skate-related.

The one coach who recommends that I stay in comets used to do figures. This blade is one she recommends to everyone, regardless of their wants, desires, skills, etc. I asked her for a recommendation for my husband, who only wants to ice dance---can you guess what blade she recommended?

Same thing with boots, the only brands she recommends are Jacksons and Gams. Every other boot on the planet "they have problems" 8O Yeah, so do Jacksons and Gams......

My private coach, I'm sure, doesn't really care, as long as my skating continues to improve. She was concerned that I didn't have a flex bend in the leather yet (hey, it's only been a year, and these are Jackson Competitors!) and she is concerned that they are too big, which is causing problems.

Doesn't the Mirage blade have an 8' rocker? I don't remember her cautioning me when I went from them to the gigantic toepick on the Comets. All she said was my speed will improve. That was never my concern. Spinning (or lack of ) was. Jumping was...

Ok, I'll shut up now. I'm calling the pro-shop and telling them Aces are on.

Perry

02-07-2006, 07:23 PM

russiet

02-07-2006, 08:03 PM

...I'm still in my Ultima Mirages, happy with them, just was curious about the 8' rocker they have. I do like spinning, though, so maybe a spinnier blade would be better the next time I upgrade.

I also have Ultima Mirages & was thinking of upgrading next year. I was looking at all of the Ultima blade specifications and noticed every one had an 8 foot rocker. I wonder why.

Also, like you, I think the only reason I'd care to move to a smaller rocker would be my spins....but that makes no guarantee that they'll improve.

stardust skies

02-08-2006, 02:13 AM

It's not a question of whether you deserve the blade; it's whether you need the blade. You don't. I was on Cornation Comets until I had at least half of my doubles. The GoldSeals or Pattern99s are simply going to actually hamper your skating, since it's really more blade than you need. Add that to the fact that they're both insanely expensive, and I'd suggest waitig (why spend more money than you have to!). And actually, most skaters are moving away from GoldSeals since their prices have gone up significantly compared to Pattern99s and they're roughly comparable blades (it's really a matter of personal preference). Most of the people (like myself) who are skating on them are skating on them because that's what we're used to, not because they're 100-200 dollars better than Pattern99s.

Hmmm I disagree that they are similar blades. The Pattern 99 is muchhhhhhhhhh lower to the ground, and the toepick could not in anyway possible be any more different from the Gold Seal's (Pattern 99's is slanted from longest piece of toepick at top to smallest at bottom, and it's a straight cut pick, while the Gold Seal toepick is curved and crosscut). Also, the Gold Seal is tapered, the Pattern 99 is parallel. I've had both, and they couldn't feel like more different blades to me. In my area, no one I know is moving away from Gold Seals, but I'm in an affluent area where a price raise wouldn't really bother anyone, especially not enough to jeopardize the very sport they already spend a fortune on either way. Most people I know who do not wear Gold Seals wear Phantoms, actually. I don't find Pattern 99's to be very popular with people my age- I know they are very popular with the adult skaters out here though- but the ones I see kick butt and are working on doubles so that's starting to warrant needing such a blade.

I think that's another thing- reccommended blades vary more by area than it does by ability. Some rinks, everyone's on Ultimas, other rinks, everyone's on Gold Seals, and so forth. Why that is, I don't know. I guess that just like at Skate@Delaware's rink, there is always some super-opinated coach that "converts" everyone else and before long everyone believes what this coach says without even doing the research themselves because I agree with the above posters- a lot of coaches DON'T know about blades. I didn't know about blades at all until a couple years ago when I had a real fiasco with a damaged pair that forced me to learn a lot more about what I was choosing to skate on.

The most important things you should know when shopping for blades are: what kind of toepick you want, what size rocker works best for you (do you tend to curve too much or do you actually have problems with turns/spins/etc), how high off the ground you wanna be, and if you want parallel blades or some other feature. If you know that much, you're in pretty good shape as to decide what you want for yourself, IMO.

I responded to this post because I don't want anyone to think the Gold Seal and Pattern 99 are interchangeable, when, IMHO, they are absolutely not. They do have the same rocker- that's all. Everything else about them is drastically different, although elite skaters DO use both models (as well as other models, too). Different stuff works for different people, but if you've found something you like, I wouldn't give it up for an extra $50.00 (which is about how much Gold Seal have increased in recent years).

Just my 30 cents on this.

Skate@Delaware

02-08-2006, 12:27 PM

The most important things you should know when shopping for blades are: what kind of toepick you want, what size rocker works best for you (do you tend to curve too much or do you actually have problems with turns/spins/etc), how high off the ground you wanna be, and if you want parallel blades or some other feature. If you know that much, you're in pretty good shape as to decide what you want for yourself, IMO.
Just my 30 cents on this.

If you could get a truly educated, unbiased opinion about blades it would be worth paying for!!! Most people don't know what they want or need. :roll: There are some people who do take the time to educate themselves (causing problems with their coach :twisted:).

Isk8NYC

02-08-2006, 12:38 PM

Skate@Delaware

02-08-2006, 02:13 PM

Our skating director makes an effort to provide some education for the staff pros each year. Last year's workshop was on blades and boots. She worked with the pro shop owner to bring in a speaker from Reidell. Obviously, he had a vested interest in pushing Reidell, but it was an open forum and a lot of discussions took place. They discussed boots as well as blades and sharpening details: rockers, depth, etc. Very useful.

Ours does nothing like that. If you ask for a different ROH when you get your skates sharpened (she sharpens also-great job but...) she gives you the 20 questions and doesn't change it anyway "I didn't think you were ready for it" is her typical answer.:roll: We really have no staff pros. We have one person in the pro shop that used to figure skate and is now getting back into it (after 20 years).

I'm sorry if this sounds like so much whining, but I find it offensive as an adult that my self-education isn't even a factor. I read everything about boots and blades and try to consider everything before a decision is made.

When I went into the pro shop the other day and requested that the Comets be exchanged for Aces, the girl in the pro shop called down to the skating director right after I left for my class. I see the skating director running down to try to find me....and try to talk me out of it.

This whole thing has really, really ticked me off (if you couldn't tell already). I go back to the rink tonight (didn't make it back the other day and they weren't anwering the phone yesterday). I will consult with my private coach one more time, then order the Aces. My concession is the fact that I was skating on Mirage blades at the beginning, which are 8' and "those are really good blades" was her comment then, and I was getting centered spins (not nearly the case now).

I know where I won't be buying boots and blades in the future!!!

luna_skater

02-08-2006, 05:41 PM

icedancer2

02-08-2006, 07:12 PM

Since we're on the blades topic...has anyone here gone from dance/synchro blades back to free skate? I'm spinning and doing all my singles on Ultima Synchros right now. I will probably need new blades this summer, and since I'm starting to work on my axel, I'm wondering if I should consider a free skate blade. However, I've been on synchro blades for almost 10 years, so I'm worried about a big adjustment. I didn't have a problem when I switched from free skate to synchro blades years ago, but it's different taking away length than adding it!

I do know someone who does both freestyle and dance and she uses dance boots/blades for dance and freestyle boot/blade for freestyle. Says it takes her about a minute if she switches from one to the other in the same day. Otherwise, no big deal.

I have a question about synchro blades -- are they just a tiny bit longer than dance blades? My dance blades are just too darn short -- I'd like something just a little longer, but not a long freestyle blade.

Drat-- the blade thing is just so complex (and so expensive just to try other ones!)

Good luck.

stardust skies

02-08-2006, 07:55 PM

This whole thing has really, really ticked me off (if you couldn't tell already). I go back to the rink tonight (didn't make it back the other day and they weren't anwering the phone yesterday). I will consult with my private coach one more time, then order the Aces. My concession is the fact that I was skating on Mirage blades at the beginning, which are 8' and "those are really good blades" was her comment then, and I was getting centered spins (not nearly the case now).

Wow, just wow. I feel bad for you. I hope you now know not to listen to these people. Is there a REAL pro shop somewhere nearby? You live in Delaware, right? Where do all the Udel kids go for stuff like that? I think that you need to go somewhere else.

Here's a little story of mine for ya: I get a 7/16 sharpening, and once, I went to this person and told them that. I hadn't skated on anything but 7/16 since I was, like, 12. Well, this person thinks I don't need 7/16, that I would be fine with 1/2. She does it behind my back. I go to my lesson, fall on every jump, can't do my spins right. Go halfway crazy and actually really hurt myself. I go back and tell the person I don't think they gave me a 7/16. They said "yeah, I gave you 1/2", I say "that's not what I asked for.." and they say "I know but I felt it would be better for you." And I about exploded. 1. She's never seen me skate 2. I didn't ask her opinion 3. she should've just refused to sharpen my skates then, but not change the hollow without my permission. Needless to say I went somewhere else and never looked back.

It's crazy what people in pro shops think they have a right to do or say. Most of them know nothing about the sport. Even those who do, can't possibly know how YOU like YOUR equipment. It's so personal. Don't let people try to cookie-cutter fit you, you know? As to calling down to the skating director so she can lecture you out of an order you are making? WTF? What is this, is your rink trying to follow the footsteps of the old Soviet Union or something? Scary. I would honestly NEVERRRRRRRRR step back into that rink with that type of crap going on. But if you have to do it, at least go shopping somewhere else so people don't butt into your bussiness. GOOD LUCK.

luna_skater

02-08-2006, 08:56 PM

I have a question about synchro blades -- are they just a tiny bit longer than dance blades? My dance blades are just too darn short -- I'd like something just a little longer, but not a long freestyle blade.

The original Ultima Synchros I bought were the same length as a dance blade, and I found them a bit too short also. After Ultima moved to Kitchener, they remodeled a lot of their blades. The second pair of Ultima Synchro blades I bought (June 04) are longer than the original model, but still shorter than a free skate blade. I definitely prefer the added length. I tested my last gold dance in them, Jr Silver through Gold skills, and have learned all my single jumps in them. I also use them for synchro (go figure :D).

I believe the synchro blades that MK and John Watts make are the same length as a dance blade.

jwrnsktr

02-08-2006, 10:32 PM

Hello again. I started this thread which now has so much information on it that it's actually quite useful. Just for the record I never wanted any type of blades for the "glory" of having them. I was just going on what my coach recommended for me. In fact what two coaches recommended for me. I never had a problem with the toe pick on the 99's. But anyway, the end of the story is this: the guy in NY feels that only the left was damaged and he worked on it in his shop and thinks he might have been able to fix it. My skates are on their way back to me, finally. All I can do is try them out and see if indeed the problem was "fixable." I'm worried that the rocker is gone on that side, but again, time will tell. Thanks for all the opinions.

Skate@Delaware

02-09-2006, 06:16 AM

Wow, just wow. I feel bad for you. I hope you now know not to listen to these people. Is there a REAL pro shop somewhere nearby? You live in Delaware, right? Where do all the Udel kids go for stuff like that? I think that you need to go somewhere else.

Here's a little story of mine for ya: I get a 7/16 sharpening, and once, I went to this person and told them that. I hadn't skated on anything but 7/16 since I was, like, 12. Well, this person thinks I don't need 7/16, that I would be fine with 1/2. She does it behind my back. I go to my lesson, fall on every jump, can't do my spins right. Go halfway crazy and actually really hurt myself. I go back and tell the person I don't think they gave me a 7/16. They said "yeah, I gave you 1/2", I say "that's not what I asked for.." and they say "I know but I felt it would be better for you." And I about exploded. 1. She's never seen me skate 2. I didn't ask her opinion 3. she should've just refused to sharpen my skates then, but not change the hollow without my permission. Needless to say I went somewhere else and never looked back.

It's crazy what people in pro shops think they have a right to do or say. Most of them know nothing about the sport. Even those who do, can't possibly know how YOU like YOUR equipment. It's so personal. Don't let people try to cookie-cutter fit you, you know? As to calling down to the skating director so she can lecture you out of an order you are making? WTF? What is this, is your rink trying to follow the footsteps of the old Soviet Union or something? Scary. I would honestly NEVERRRRRRRRR step back into that rink with that type of crap going on. But if you have to do it, at least go shopping somewhere else so people don't butt into your bussiness. GOOD LUCK.

Wow! THAT sucks! I'm not sure where the UofDE kids go, maybe Skate Club of Wilmington or Aston or Icehouse. I know some people just go up to Skate Buys in Claymont to buy off the shelf. That is what I will do for daughter's blades. I mentioned that I was getting her Pattern 99----you should have seen the look from the skating director!!! I mentioned how well she skates and they are appropriate for her level (she couldn't argue with that) Yikes! My daughter is a good skater and is starting on her doubles and axel. If she had more time for practice (she can only skate once a week), she would have most of them by now. I'm not stupid-I've done my research and know what people are skating on and what they are doing. I don't feel it's the whole rink's business what I put her in.

Anyway, to end the saga: hubby found out my blades (Comets) were in and decided to help me out by picking them up for me :frus: so there I am. I'm sure no one in the pro shop thought to tell him I was sending them back and re-ordering a different kind. So I'm going to put this all behind me for now as the stress from this added to the other stuff I'm dealing with is too much for this old chick....

All I can say is they have lost my business forever. Once my daughter's boots are in and molded, I am done.

Isk8NYC

02-09-2006, 09:05 AM

How does one "pick up" just the blades? I know you don't want to hear this, but if the blades haven't been mounted or sharpened yet, and the pro shop sells a bunch of these model, they should be willing to take them back. Especially since you've ordered a more expensive model: they would rather have the cheaper blade in inventory than the more expensive one. They can't expect you to buy both.

If not maybe you could trade them in at the new pro shop you're going to go to for DD's blades? Good luck in either case.

jwrnsktr - I didn't read anything that implied you were glory-seeking. You did ask in your opening post if you "deserved" the blades, so some of the replies may have addressed that concern.

While the thread may have gone awry, there was an incredible amount of information discussed and debated, so it was very useful for everyone. Hang in there : I hope the NY pro shop can help you out with the left blade. Make sure to find out how many sharpenings are left, so you can use the info you've learned wisely! Good luck!

Skate@Delaware

02-09-2006, 09:24 AM

How does one "pick up" just the blades? I know you don't want to hear this, but if the blades haven't been mounted or sharpened yet, and the pro shop sells a bunch of these model, they should be willing to take them back. Especially since you've ordered a more expensive model: they would rather have the cheaper blade in inventory than the more expensive one. They can't expect you to buy both.

If not maybe you could trade them in at the new pro shop you're going to go to for DD's blades? Good luck in either case.

The way it works at my "pro shop" is: you order something, put a deposit on it and when it arrives, pay for it and take it away (and they know my hubby so let him pick them up)..... Getting blades mounted there is very risky. When you order boots, same process except they measure your feet (not always accurately) and offer one free heat-molding. If your boots don't fit, they will ship them back and re-order but you pay a re-stocking fee (as well as all the shipping and handling). They do give you a 25% discount if you are enrolled in classes there which offsets these costs. They don't carry stuff in the shop. And, no one gets their skates sharpened there, they either take them to the skate director or up north to The Pond or Skate Club.....

stardust skies

02-10-2006, 03:39 AM

The way it works at my "pro shop" is: you order something, put a deposit on it and when it arrives, pay for it and take it away (and they know my hubby so let him pick them up)..... Getting blades mounted there is very risky. When you order boots, same process except they measure your feet (not always accurately) and offer one free heat-molding. If your boots don't fit, they will ship them back and re-order but you pay a re-stocking fee (as well as all the shipping and handling). They do give you a 25% discount if you are enrolled in classes there which offsets these costs. They don't carry stuff in the shop. And, no one gets their skates sharpened there, they either take them to the skate director or up north to The Pond or Skate Club.....

I understand what you are saying, but what keeps you from bringing them back? So long as they aren't mounted or sharpened there is nothing preventing the pro shop from sending them back to the manufacturer and ordering you a different pair. It isn't like you aren't buying something else from them instead. There is absolutely no reason you cannot return these saying your husband was not aware that you were going to be sending them back for something else, and that you were surprised the staff gave the blades away even after you had discussed this. Unless there is a sign on your receipt or in the store that says "everything is final sale", then you can return them and get the Aces. The pro shop can and will get reimbursed when they send the blades back, and you can apply your store credit to the new blades.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do this before putting this pro shop behind you. It really wouldn't be that much of a hassle. Get it over with...suffer for a day, be happy for years to come!

Skate@Delaware

02-10-2006, 07:50 PM

Debbie S

02-10-2006, 09:13 PM

I talked with the pro shop manager as well as the rink manager and I'm stuck with the blades. All sales are final unless the blades are defective. Did they clearly communicate that to you (and their restocking fees, etc) in advance (with either a sign or some other notification)? If not, then I think you have a legitimate reason to dispute the charge with your credit card company. (and why do they need to charge you a restocking fee and the shipping to send them back?)

I would definitely not go to that pro shop again. FWIW, I stopped off at the Skatebuys store in Claymont on my way to the Liberty comp last summer to get soakers and new guards and the guy there was very nice and seemed knowledgeable (I asked him a question about the difference bet the MK Pros and Coronation Aces). That might be an alternative for you. Also, the pro shop at the Bowie rink (if you get there for your comp this weekend) is nice and the guy there (Chuck) did a good job sharpening my skates and several other people's that I know. I've also heard good things about the sharpenings at SCW.

Good luck at your comp (if you get there)!

stardust skies

02-11-2006, 02:53 AM

I talked with the pro shop manager as well as the rink manager and I'm stuck with the blades. All sales are final unless the blades are defective. :twisted:

If I had "accidentally" ordered the wrong ones, I would have to pay $35 restocking fee and $15 shipping and handling to send them back. Then I would have to wait for the Aces to be ordered for the "credit" to be applied (they weren't willing to just refund my money and let me walk). Then I would pay the $15 shipping and handling for the new blades coming in (while waiting who knows how long for that to happen).

I'm thinking they need to learn some customer service skills.

So, to make the best of a bad situation, I will slap these puppies onto my boots and break those bad boys in. I will also be saving my $$$ over the summer for new blades. Since I don't skate much in the summer, by the time the rink opens in the fall, I can swap out blades, and sell my "new" gently used ones. I just need to be in my new boots asap.

Well...$65.00 is a REALLY small price to pay for better blades, especially considering how much you already paid. You should take that option!! I dunno where you plan on selling your used blades if you keep them and try to save up for new ones (which, since this whole ordeal could be fixed for less than the price of an hour of coaching, sounds like a LOT of hassle for nothing..) but as far as I know, not that many people buy new Comets, let alone used ones. Also, logistically speaking, I would think that the market for used blades is mainly for kids, who grow out of stuff all the time, or higher level blades for adults, either for people who are now coaching, or people who want to upgrade to a better blade but not spend the money on it. It doesn't seem like there would be a large market for used, adult-sized weirdo-rockered blades like the Comets. Long story short, I highly doubt you'll make much money off of these...maybe $50.00 if you're lucky? So you will be out hundreds of dollars even if you sell them to buy new ones- it would save SOOO much time and money to just add the $65.00, plus whatever price difference the Aces are and go for them.

I know I'm being pushy and in the end you need to do what you feel is best for you, but seriously...if you don't spend the $65.00 to clean up THEIR mistake now, you're going to end up paying a lotttttt more later, both in progress by being forced to skate in these way too flat blades, AND in trying to recoup the money from being forced to buy them so you can get new ones.

I'd pay the $65.00 if that is the only way, but first, I would try and contact MK (riedellskates.com) to see if they cannot exchange the blades for you directly- tell them your pro shop made a mistake (which they did, in giving your husband the blades after you had said you were returning them) and that they are now unwilling to help you swap out the blades. If they can't help, $65.00 is still better than whatever you'd end up making on selling the Comets and buying new Aces later.

A question though: since it is EASY to tell whether a blade has been sharpened/mounted/used or not, why did the pro shop say it was "no problem" to swap out the blades last week, and now that you've picked them up, it isn't? Makes no sense. Either it's okay or it's not. :frus:

And another question: as the poster above me said...why do you need to pay both a restocking fee AND a fee to ship them back? Either they are keeping them in store and making you pay a restocking fee, or they are sending them back for a full refund in which case they make you pay for shipping. That should be the end of your fees. WHY would they also make you pay for the shipping of the NEW skates?? You're paying to send the other ones back, so ordering the Aces from that point out should be just like ordering blades the first time around, in which case correct me if I am wrong, but they do not charge for shipping to the store. Do they? Either way, there are too many fees and you should ask them to justify them. In the end though, $65.00 is still nothing in this sport, and if you have the wrong blades, you might as well throw every other dime you spend on skating out the window anyways, so I'd urge you to spend the extra fees on exchanging the blades if you really have to. If you need to break in your new boots ASAP, why not just put an old blade on there- your old Comets? You're not supposed to do much in brand new boots anyways, so it could do the trick while the Aces arrive.

Skate@Delaware

02-13-2006, 07:36 AM

Our pro shop charges you shipping fees to the store. If you return an item, you pay again. This is the way they have been doing business since they open. I think they do it to make sure people don't order a bunch of stuff and then cancel their order. They never have figure skates in stock. They never have blades in stock. Everything has to be ordered. Then you wait weeks for the items to arrive.

I am going to get up with Reidell and see if they will take the blades in for an exchange or outright return.

I am at the rink almost every day. I spend a ton of $$$ at that place. I skate, my hubby skates, and my kids both skate. They should have taken these blades back. I'm not one to normally bad-mouth a place, but I have been soured. I have been telling people looking to buy skates to go to Skate-Buys in Claymont, or to The Pond (they have stuff in stock and sometimes on sale).:twisted:

stardust skies

02-13-2006, 07:05 PM