Which brand of skates should I buy?

[Casey]

Hi all, I'm new to the site, but now that I know it's here, I hope to spend much more time here!

I am going to a pro shop to be fitted for new custom skates tonight - decided it was finally time to stop screwing around with used skates and throw some money down (sold my laptop to pay for it!).

I have been skating for the past few weeks on a pair of used Klingbeils that I got a _fantastic_ deal on. They're really a nice, if well-worn, pair of skates, the biggest problem is that the toe is too narrow for my feet in the toes and I lose circulation on the outsides of my feet if I wear them too long without a break. I also found as I was attempting to learn the waltz jump (CCW) the last time I went that the tongue puts a lot of pressure on the inside of my ankle, to the point of causing a numbness that has lasted several days (I haven't been skating since). I didn't realize it until I took the skates off, but the left of the tongue had really pressured the side of my foot and caused the area to be very sensitive. I don't bruise, but if I did, I have no doubt I'd have a nasty bruise there...

This being said, the skates are great to skate on, they perform really well compared to the pair I had before (which were no good at all, the leather was soft and floppy and I didn't realize the benefits of stiff leather). I really want a pair of skates that I can keep on for more than an hour though, without worrying about harming my feet.

My roomate has about the same size of feet as me, and has a pair of SP Teri Super Teri's that he bought in 1997 (he hasn't been skating for 3-4 years), which he let me borrow one day and I thought they were absolutely fantastic.

However I've also noted some negative reviews of SP Teri, and the guy at the Pro shop suggested that I give Graf figure skates serious consideration (my roomate also said that they were worth considering, though he had never seen/used them). I'm a bit concerned about Graf though, as they seem to be more focused on making hockey skates, and the boots don't look the same as the normal figure skate (a suede look as opposed to shiny leather).

I've only got a few hours until I leave for the pro shop, but I was hoping some of you might be on who could make some last-minute suggestions. I'm not concerned about price so much as I am concerned about finding the best boots possible.

Any advice? It's greatly appreciated!

[skaternum]

You should post these kinds of questions in the "On Ice" forum. That's a place for people who skate to discuss skating, equipment, etc. This is a fan forum. Maybe one of the administrators could move the thread?

[bridgeport]

Graf is rumored to be having major problems in skate production lately. You can find many satisfied customers for almost any skate manufacturer and just as many unsatisfied customers. I believe the trick is in the initial measurement and fitting. I have had good luck with Klingbeil ... but that's probably because I go right to their shop in NY and have Bill Klingbeil do the measurements. If you are buying stock boots, try a few before you decide. Good luck.

[jp1andOnly]

My last 2 boots have been grafs and I love them. My brother, a former national senior competitor uses double strength Graf's as well

Graf is rumored to be having major problems in skate production lately. You can find many satisfied customers for almost any skate manufacturer and just as many unsatisfied customers. I believe the trick is in the initial measurement and fitting. I have had good luck with Klingbeil ... but that's probably because I go right to their shop in NY and have Bill Klingbeil do the measurements. If you are buying stock boots, try a few before you decide. Good luck.

[md2be]

Ive used Reidell's for 24 years....

but it really is personal preference. Reidell has changed their boot over the years and I personally liked the old ones...heh - but those had plastic in the boot frame and apparently people were having ankle issues. They changed this about 8 years ago TTBOMK, and although I still like them, my next pair I will explore other options. Ive had mine rebuilt twice.

Things to think about are not only comfort and fit, but weight, composition, strength, height of boot, incline (some are more inclined than others), and internal components - like does it use molding material that will remember your foot, etc.

[sue123]

i think this may be a bit too late, but if you're not very advanced yet, you might not want to put down the money for a pair of customs. Most people are just fine in stock boots, at least while they're still learning. And, they're a lot less expensive than custom boots. The exception would be if you have some sort of weird anomoly in your feet. But things like the arches can be changed with arch supports if needed, and the toe box could be stretched if needed. Also, a lot of boots are heat moldable, so you won't need to worry about as long a break in period. For most people, especially beginners, this is more than enough.

I dunno, imo, customs aren't really worth it unless absolutely necessary, especially at lower levels when you dont need a lot of stiffness in the boot.

I'm right now skating in a pair of jackson's, and i love them. before that, i had riedells, and i liked those too, but the next level up was a bit too pricey for my budget.

But if you do get SP Teri's, i've heard they are near impossible to break in. This could lead to blisters, sore raw feet, and not a happy time. Especially if you're on the smaller side. But everyone has different feet. I've never skated in sp teri's, but that;s just what i heard.

[AstarZ41]

I agree with Sue that custom boots are only necessary when you have speacial foot issues or you're an advanced enough skater that little things like that make a significant difference. Customs are about what, $500 and up? And then you'll probably have to get new blades too. Stock boots are just as good (again if you don't have special foot needs that can't be fixed by stretching, heat molding, custom instep things etc)

I'm lucky enough to have pretty "standard" feet so that stock Riedells fit me with no problems. I'm also really light on my boots so that while other people at my level get silver and gold stars, bronze stars are plenty stiff for moi (they're almost a year old and still look like new)

[backspin]

The other issue here is that, if you are just learning waltz jumps, you are talking about getting a boot that is way too strong for your level now. A good skate fitter should not sell you a pair of boots that isn't appropriate for you. Jacksons are very good for starting out, if they fit you right. Many people like Reidells, which also make a few "beginner" level models. I'd say make sure you get real leather, not a synthetic, and get a boot that comes separate from the blade (which will allow you to adjust the blade placement if necessary). Then just go with what fits you best and in the strength needed for your current level of skating. Custom Grafs (or customs in general) are not necessary right now! Save that money for lessons--so you'll need them sooner!

[fadedstardust]

Yeah, unless you have very specific foot problems that can't be accomodated by a stock boot, custom boots are a waste of money, and too high-end a boot is a waste too cause you'll never break them in. I suggest Riedell silver or gold stars, or Jacksons (what lower-end models are there?) I also suggest you get an MK professional or Coronation Ace (is it ace, or comet that I'm thinking of? Pretty sure it's Ace) attached to it. You probably shouldn't pay more than 500 for the WHOLE thing (blades and boots), not for the boots themselves. Waste of money if you're learning waltz jumps right now, and it'll hurt like a mother if the boot is too stiff.

[blades]

8-)

since you're in the seattle area...pm me and tell me where you're getting fitted...some shops are better than others around here...

as for boots...i agree that mid level reidell or jackson boots might work for you if you don't have problem feet...

also...if you're at a level to need such equipment...i assume you're taking lessons...which would mean that you have a coach...said coach should also be a good source for advice on equipment...

[Anita18]

As everyone said, you really don't need customs right now. Someone in my gamma/delta skating class a looong time ago bought custom SPTeris, and I don't think they help her that much. I learned all my edges, some of my spins, and was trying a loop by the time my low end made-for-recreational-skating-haha Riedells had broken down so much I couldn't do back crossovers anymore.

I now have stock SPTeris (in a combination size since my feet are wide), and it's been a long time since I've gotten them so I don't really remember what the break in was like. However, I don't recall having any problems with blisters or numb feet. They were hard to break in compared to the Riedells I had before, but it wasn't as bad as my friend's Harlicks. She battles blisters constantly. Ick.

I haven't heard anything about Graf, other than that they have this special sort of lining that molds to your feet really easily. SPTeris have a wide toe box and a narrow heel, which is what I needed. Harlicks are longer and narrower, but I think it really depends on who fits you. I've seen skaters with reeeeeeaaaaaally narrow Harlicks but my friend's Harlicks fit like my SPTeris.

Not sure how $$$ you're willing to go, but my SPTeris were $580 for boots and blades. Apparently they're able to take me through doubles, if I ever get there, LOL. (I'm willing to bet that my skating classmate paid a lot more for her customs.) My old Riedells were $175 and they came with the blades, but I think they were too low level for what I was doing back then.

[ankiel]

Count me in as another Riedell fan. I skated in Riedell's for 6 years way back in the day and although they weren't a perfect fit, they were the best fit due to my misshapen feet! Nothing else even came close to fitting the same. Mind you, since then there may be many differences in boots or new boots out there but I have remained loyal to Riedell. :bow:

[Casey]

Thanks for all the lovely responses! My first inclination was that I did not need to spend so much money on skates, so I picked up a few pair of really crappy skates on eBay. Then I spent a little but not too much more on the used Klingbeils. Throughout this my roomate has been telling me I need good skates. Though stubborn, I finally gave in to his way of thinking after selling my laptop and having money burning a hole in my pocket.

Unfortunately, I didn't get any of the responses before going, but I ended up deciding on a pair of Graf Edmontons. They had a size 10.5 in stock, and though my feet measured as a size 11, they fit so well and were SO unbelievably comfortable that I bought them right then and there. They weren't any cheaper than Teris though...after a 15% discount I still paid just under $400 for the boots. I don't mind the expense though - I figure this is an investment that I'll use for a few years to come, and I really am enjoying skating so far. :D

Since I got boots that were in stock, I only have to wait for blades, so my waiting time is only a few days instead of a few weeks. The fitter highly recommended Coronation Ace blades, but after much deliberation I decided to splurge and go with MK Gold Stars. The cost of these hurt...as it was a more than double that of the Aces...but I took a big swallow and decided on them, because they really appealed to me - both the tapered edges and what the fitter told me about the metal (they are harder to bend by accident, and the metal is of a better quality). Plus my roomate tells me this is what Todd Eldredge uses, and though I know that I'll never be as good, it's nice to dream. ;)

I figure any limitations I face in skating now can't be blamed on the skates! I don't find many things that I really like and stick with like I have been with skating, so I don't mind splurging when I do.


blades - FYI, I bought the skates at OlympicView Arena. I stopped by Highland first the other day, but the fitter at OlympicView seemed more knowledgeable and helpful (he also put the best sharpening I've ever seen on my old skates).

Also, I don't have a coach yet, I've just been teaching myself. I bought more than I need, but I do intend to get coaching at some point soon - I wanted to have a decent pair of skates first.

[dbny]

after much deliberation I decided to splurge and go with MK Gold Stars. ... the tapered edges ...


Be sure to find someone experienced with those tapered edges to sharpen them.

[loveskating]

Do you have a coach?

If so, s/he should be telling you what kind of skates and blades you need.

My daughter had two pairs of used Reidell goldstars until her coach told her she needed something stronger for jumps...we got Harlicks high testers, stock, but they build the skate according to drawings (many) of your feet, and blades for the level of jumps. They were great, perfect.

[Casey]

Be sure to find someone experienced with those tapered edges to sharpen them.

Most certainly. After spending that much on them, I won't be taking them anywhere but to the guy I bought them from for sharpening. He does a fantastic job, and though it costs a bit more to get them sharpened there than the only other place I've had skates sharpened, he takes his time sharpening them and makes them as perfect as possible.

I had him sharpen my old blades, and he started off by using a tool to straighten one of the blades which was not perfectly straight, and with both used marker all along the bottom and then went over them very lightly with the stone, so that you could see the slight unevenness of the previous sharpening. He was also very flexible on the depth of the bore, whereas before I was not given any option (they simply did a 1/2" bore). I had him make them closer to 7/16" (I'll discuss/question that more in another thread). When finished sharpening spots down the entire length of both sides of the blade with a fingernail to ensure the sharpness, and applied a bit of blade polish as a finishing touch.

He gave me the same warning as you when I started considering the tapered blades, but after experiencing the sharpening he did, I didn't need any further encouragement to always go back to the same place. It's nice to find somebody that's really good at something, especially when it's something that directly affects your skating. :D

[fadedstardust]

Wow. You not only got way too much boot, but WAY WAY WAY too much blade. I'm doing triples and I'm not even using Gold Seals- I have the level below which is a pattern 99 (Gold Seal is the John Wilson brand version of Gold Stars- and from what I hear, it's much better). But Gold Seal/Gold Star are pretty much an honor to wear, the last step up in your career to refine everything about your skating. They're not blades for learning your doubles, and certainly not your singles. I know it's your money and your feet and everything, but I strongly urge you to cancel your order and get Coronation Aces. You are going to have a very hard time learning basics in Gold Stars- I know of a boy who returned the blades after trying them for a few days (and he was doing up to double axel) because he and his coach agreed it was just too much blade for his level.

You can, absolutely, buy too good of equipment for what you need. I know of a world-class elite athlete who takes a couple of weeks to break in Edmonton Specials, so that translates to....months/years for you. That's not gonna be fun, that's really going to halt your progress. If on top of that you throw in a blade that there is no way you can possibly understand how to harness yet, you're really only going to go backwards in terms of progress. I'm glad your fitter tried to convince you to buy a blade appropriate for your level, but I'm shocked he let you walk away with a Gold Star order form, that's just crazy. That's like taking up ballet and expecting a week later to be dancing on Grishko pointe shoes. Things with skating take a lot of time, and it's one thing for which investing "for years to come" is absolutely worthless. In years to come, you'll need new blades no matter how much they cost you, cause you'll eventually run out of metal to sharpen. And by then, you probably still won't need Gold Stars. It's not an insult- as I said, I don't even use them- and neither do about three-quarters of my friends. They're an elite blade, for elite skaters. To everyone else, it's a waste of money. Please reconsider?

[md2be]

I agree with stardust....you got WAY too much blade.

Really, you will have trouble learning even 3-turns with those.

Even Phantoms might be too much!

By the time you need Gold Stars, if ever you get to doing triples, you will long have out-sharpened them and they will be useless. The blades go before the boots do for beginners like you. Stick with the boot, but yes, please change to a blade more appropraite for you.

You arent losing any QUALITY of blade by going with Aces...you are getting a completely different blade, but still high quality. It would be like you going skiing for the first season and trying out parabolic skiis that are 200 in length...hard to handle and learn the basics. It would be like taking up biking and hopping on Lance's highly specialized bike. It is NOT like picking up a higher priced basketball, where the skill really lies in the person and not the equipment. Whether you have a ball made of plastic or pig skin, you will shoot the same. SO NOT TRUE with skating.

[sue123]

i'm with the above posters. It really is too much blade and boot. the boots are probably going to be so stiff, your feet won't be happy. and the blade, you're going to have a harder time learning basics and spins and jumps and turns. It'll feel like you're fighting the blade.

I'm skating in a pair of jackson competitors, which have a pair of ultima blades on them. For what i'm doing (single jumps, with spins way better than jumps) those skates work just fine. After the initial adjustment time, I'm not fighting with the skates or blades, and the improvement is a lot faster.

seriously, if you can, cancel the blade order, and maybe even look into returning the boots. isn't the edmonton's the highest level boot graf makes? not to be pessimistic, but you may very well be miserable in those skates and blade.

[love2sk8]

I agree with stardust and md2be...I only started in Grafs when I started doing double axels and triples, and I use a Gold Seal ...but on a different note, it's easier to adjust to a Graf Ed Special because grafs usually tend to be an easier boot to break in than say, Risports, SP's or Harlicks.

The blade though, is just way too advanced. I used to work at a skating store and fitted boots and blades for advanced skaters, and never would I have put a skater working on singles on a blade that advanced. It's too much money and like the others said, even the most basic of skills will be tough. I remember I had to relearn a camel spin with the Gold Seals, and it was hard to find my centre of gravity and get comfortable on the blade.

Anyways, I hope whatever you choose benefits your skating, although I do hope you'd reconsider

[AstarZ41]

8O Holy crap, Graf Edmontons and Gold Stars for learning the WALTZ jump????!!!! I can't help but feel your skates fitter ripped you off.... Or I can't believe he let you have your way with those choices, especially the blades. ITA that these skates are for someone doing TRIPLES or at least all doubles. Your skates fitter told you Gold Stars won't BEND as easily? You're not gonna bend any blades, oh my god! Are quads in your plans for the near future? And don't they have an 8 inch radius? That's gonna be a pain learning spins and turns. So yeah, that's about $1000 for not even Freestyle 1. :?? I would REALLY advise you to reconsider your purchases.

[md2be]

I just have to keep adding....

I have been skating for 24 years and still do doubles, and I never used stiffer boots than Riedell Imperials (or equivalent)...which is not their top line. It is right above Royals (WHICH I HIGHLY REC. FOR YOU!!!!).

I am older now, and have had my current pair for 5 years. I still do doubles, but I dont skate more than 4-5 times a month, which is why they have lasted so long. More importantly, I have had to have these UN-ENFORCED (meaning: a layer of leather taken OUT) because after 3 years of skating on them and doing doubles, I still hadnt broken them in enough. And Im pretty tough on them.

You have purchased boots stiffer than this, and you are skating less aggressively.

Check out Riedell Royals and Professional Blades...that is what I started on. (If they still make Professional blades).

Also, if you are size 11 and only went down .5 in boot size, I might suggest that they are actually too big! Usually skates run 1-2 sizes smaller than shoes. For serious fit, they should feel like Chinese foot binding! :) But for you, just make sure you can wiggle your toes a very little amount.

[md2be]

OK...lol..Riedell has completely changed their boot names since I last bought....


anyway....this is a guide. It is there for a reason...so people dont buy boots that will make learning miserable. Youd do well in a Gold Medallion or even a Bronze Star boot...but nothing more. I suggest you look up similar index guides at the websites of Graf and other skate manuf. They spend a lot of time and money designing boots which will help skaters at each level.

http://www.riedellskates.com/ice/index.html (click on "ICE" then on "Recs")

Here is the blade I rec to all my interm. skaters:
http://www.riedellskates.com/blades/index.html (click on INterm. and look for Professionals)

[love2sk8]

Thats true, md2be, about skate sizes, especially grafs. They should be sized 1.5-2.5 sizes smaller than what your foot measures on the stick...

[flippet]

Yikes.

I will say...you 'sound' a bit more knowledgable in general than your average beginner skater...but there's so much to learn about this sport that may not be readily evident at first, that it's easy to make mistakes for the first few years, at least.

Here's the advice I would have given you from the start.

have been skating for the past few weeks on a pair of used Klingbeils that I got a _fantastic_ deal on. They're really a nice, if well-worn, pair of skates, the biggest problem is that the toe is too narrow for my feet in the toes and I lose circulation on the outsides of my feet if I wear them too long without a break.
Do these skates fit reasonably well otherwise? I would take these to the pro shop first, check for 'proper' fit, and see if you can get the toe box punched or stretched to accommodate your toes. A good fitter should be able to tell you whether that's do-able for your Klingbeils.


I also found as I was attempting to learn the waltz jump (CCW) the last time I went that the tongue puts a lot of pressure on the inside of my ankle, to the point of causing a numbness that has lasted several days (I haven't been skating since). I didn't realize it until I took the skates off, but the left of the tongue had really pressured the side of my foot and caused the area to be very sensitive. I don't bruise, but if I did, I have no doubt I'd have a nasty bruise there...
First off, how tight are you lacing these boots? If you're lacing them too tightly around the hooks, I'm not surprised about the ankle pain. Also, sometimes the tongue of a boot will shift slightly, and put pressure in strange places. This is not, in itself, a reason to ditch the boots and get new ones. (You think you have ankle pain now.....just wait for break-in of a new pair!) Again, a good pro shop can do a number of things to adjust the boots you've got so that they work for you.

I will also say that even though the boots were used, they were broken in to someone else's foot. It still takes a bit of adjustment and break-in time so that the boot will mold to your foot.

This being said, the skates are great to skate on, they perform really well compared to the pair I had before (which were no good at all, the leather was soft and floppy and I didn't realize the benefits of stiff leather). I really want a pair of skates that I can keep on for more than an hour though, without worrying about harming my feet.
You sound like you like the Klingbeils....so really, I'd try to adjust those first. Remember....breaking in new skates, even heat-molded Grafs, is often no picnic...you may not be able to keep new ones on for more than an hour for a while, and break-in pain can really be a doozy sometimes.

How are the blades on the Klingbeils? If they're still good, why not just transfer the blades onto new boots, if you do in fact decide that new boots are called for? Check for proper blade/boot sizing fit, but if it works....

My roomate has about the same size of feet as me, and has a pair of SP Teri Super Teri's that he bought in 1997 (he hasn't been skating for 3-4 years), which he let me borrow one day and I thought they were absolutely fantastic.

However I've also noted some negative reviews of SP Teri, Different boots work for different people, and even then, not all the time. All boots can be great, or all boots can suck. It's very much an individual thing...each time. I love my SP Teri's...yes, they are a very *ahem* solid boot, but then I trash skates, normally, so I need and like a stiff boot. I certainly wouldn't recommend my Super Teris for someone who isn't really jumping yet....oh, the pain. 8O



I'm not concerned about price so much as I am concerned about finding the best boots possible.Really, what this sounds like is a case of 'bigger/better is better'. Which is so untrue in skating, it's not even funny. The 'best' boots for someone else are not likely to be the best for you. Too much boot (and blade) can be damaging, both for your feet and body, and for your skating.

Did the pro shop guy that originally suggested Graf for you...perhaps sell Graf? I'm just saying...some people can be so eager to make a sale that they don't stick as closely as they should to discovering what the best product for a customer is. This can also lead to upselling (bigger profit margin, I imagine, though I'm not sure).

I'm with the others....you got sold too much for your level. When you're finally at a suitable level for these products, then go back and get them. But they'll just get in the way at the moment, and make you feel that you wasted your money...which in a way, you did. :(

[md2be]

To add to Flippet - often "lace bite" (the ankle pain from the tongue/lace pressure) can be alleviated by skipping an eyelet on the boot when you are lacing them up. You will see many skaters who do not lace up the top eyelet, or who skip the one at the bend in the ankle (the lowest eyelet) because these are pressure points. Other skaters (like me) double up in these areas :) We are gluttons for pain.

There are other solutions, too, like blister pads, blister pads with cut outs, lamb's wool, etc. If you generally like the Klings, stick with them for a bit, play around with the lacing, see what the pro shop has for padding. Sometimes skaters even cut out some of the tongue padding...but dont do this until you are positive about wanting to.

To break in skates - well, when I was younger, it was advised to walk around your house with the guards on with very thin wet socks. These are leather and the leather will mold to your feet. It might help to stretch the toebox.

Skaters who are properly fitted often do not have their toes completely flat in a skate when they buy it. They let the heat and moisture of their feet expand the toebos to get a super tight, comfortable, proper fit. I DO NOT rec. this type of fit for you because it will hurt....a lot....and you dont need skates that are that cozy.

[TashaKat]

I'm going to go COMPLETELY against popular opinion here ... sort of!

I would agree that, in general, getting top end boots and blades isn't a good idea if you've only just started jumps etc BUT I really, really wish that I'd bought custom Harlicks MANY MANY years before I did! I had no end of problems with stock boots and would have saved a lot of money and pain by going for a softer custom Harlick. Since buying Harlicks I haven't had a single problem with painful feet, scars, weals, lumps and bumps. It also means that I spent more time on the ice rather than off the ice trying to get my boots comfortable.

Again with the blades I wouldn't generally recommend getting top end blades BUT I got a very cheap pair of Risport Super Diamant with Gold Star blades when I was just starting jumping and spinning and the difference was amazing for me. I HATED Coronation Ace blades and couldn't get on with them but the Gold Stars made me feel like I was 'home'. I should say that I didn't know what the heck Gold Stars were at that point so it wasn't psychological! I have since gone onto Harlick Customs and Gold Seals which I LOVE.

At the end of the day it's each to his or her own. I wouldn't tell someone with very little experience to go right out and get customs and high end blades BUT I wouldn't rule them out if other things just aren't working.

Oh, if you hadn't realised already I ADORE Harlicks :)

[AstarZ41]

TashaKat, I agree with you that custom boots may be the best solution if you have "problem" feet. Like you said, you had a lot of problems with stock boots probably even after doing everything possible like stretching, insteps etc. Your weight and skating power (or how hard you are on your boots) can also be factors. But still, I think that when just starting out, custom boots are the "last resort." Customs can be a good investment if you'd otherwise be throwing money away on switching boots trying to find something comfortable.

As for blades, I still think Gold Stars are way too much at this level. Aces or Pros would be more approprite. Maybe Visions.

However, I think a good fitter should be able to really help with boot and blade choice. Mine always seems to know exactly what kind of boot would be best for me. Before getting my latest pair, many people recommended Silver and Gold stars. But when I went it, my skates pro took one look at the condition my old skates were in and said Bronze stars would be plenty stiff. I'm still learning the axel now, but my boots feel really good, good enough for doubles.

[bridgeport]

Hey cshobe,
You've skated in stock boots, moved up to (used) Klingbeils, weighed you "needs" against your "wants", consulted with a fitter (who tried to save you $) and ultimately decided on custom Grafs and expensive blades. Good for you! Don't listen to all these skaters (including me) who may tell you what you should have done! YOU KNOW YOURSELF BETTER THAN ANY OF US. Skate! Enjoy! Have Fun! Don't let "coulda", "shoulda", "woulda" bring you down. Good Luck.

[Casey]

Wow, lots of things to think about...

Yes, I certainly bought more than I need, without any doubt. However I wanted to have something that I wouldn't need to replace before they broke down, and wouldn't limit my abilities.

I would not blame the fitter at all, so let me clear that up. If anyone is to blame besides myself, it's my roomate who has been telling me I should buy the best possible boots for weeks on end. But it was really my own decision.

I found after getting the Klingbeils (which are very stiff) and trying my roomate's SP Teris that I really prefer a stiff boot, I feel like I have so much more control. In fact, I tried skating on my original skates after only two sessions on the Klingbeils, and found myself pretty much unable to do anything because of the lack of support. I went to the fitter asking specifically to get Super Teris. He recommended against them for several reasons, and I finally decided to go with his recommendation. I found the Graf boots to be extremely comfortable, and a good fit. I can wiggle _all_ of my toes a small bit in them (as opposed to the Klingbeils where all but my two innermost toes can't budge), but the fit is also quite tight when they are laced up. When unlaced, if I force my foot as far forward as I can, I can squeeze in a finger behind my heel, but the fitter said this is okay (he was concerned about them being too small).

I don't mind break-in time, or I wouldn't have been seeking a pair of SP Teris. :) The Klingbeils were especially hard on the sides of my ankles at first, and it took a couple weeks before I could keep them on more than an hour or so without a 5 minute break.

The Grafs though are padded very well, they use heat to form them, and they don't feel as stiff as Super Teris to boot. I really like the boots, and even after considering the opinions against them for my level, I intend to stick with them (I do appreciate all the advice though, whether for or against!).


The blades on the other hand I'm feeling a bit uncertain about, because of the (mostly) negative opinions on them here. It probably wouldn't be too much trouble to cancel the order and get some Coronation Aces in instead, however I want to think about that . I'm not worried about them wearing out by the time I get to the point of being able to do double jumps (if I ever even manage to, singles seem a distant goal for now :) )...because if this set lasts me a couple years before I have to replace it, I'll consider it a good deal - I'm not concerned about the expense, as much as whether they will be as usable by me.

I knew they were overkill, but the big question is - will they hinder my progress? I don't mind a steep learning curve, because if this is something I might eventually graduate to with years of practice, wouldn't it be better to learn on them now, instead of having to relearn later? Will I be able to skate as well on the gold stars, given time? I was under the impression that either could be gotten used to. Yes, as some have said, I am most certainly under the inaccurate "bigger is better" influence, but I figured it would be good to start with the best, and learn what I could live without, rather than not know what I was missing out on (this ideal mostly came from starting with really poor skates).

Somebody suggested using the blades from the Klingbeils - I don't think this is possible because the Klingbeil is a shorter boot - I will measure it when I get home to be sure, but the Grafs will need an 11 3/4" blade. The bigger problem with the blades on the Klingbeils is that the rocker is too large - the fitter estimated it at 8' or even 9'.

I'd kind of hate to cancel and change the blade order (hence my resistance in this post ;) ), but I am pretty sure it wouldn't be too much of a problem to do if necessary. I wish I'd found this forum earlier! Ahh well... I guess if worst comes to worst and I end up getting yet really hate the blades, I can get a set of Aces or another blade to replace them, and put the gold stars in the closet for a couple years down the road.


Thanks a million for all the advice - I may well end up with a set of lesser blades yet. :)

[flippet]

Ahh well... I guess if worst comes to worst and I end up getting yet really hate the blades, I can get a set of Aces or another blade to replace them, and put the gold stars in the closet for a couple years down the road.
Well, this is true. You do sound like a determined skater, so even if this equipment is difficult, you'll probably persevere.

What were you skating on before the Klingbeils?

When I started, I was using an old pair of recreational (but better than most) CCMs. I could skate forward pretty decently, with a crossover or two, and move backward, but that was about it. I very shortly moved into Riedell 220s (and probably should have had the 320s), which lasted about 6 months, though I had them for a year. I then bought Riedell Silver Stars (this was 5 years ago, so before the redesign), and again, those lasted about a year before the ankle support was shot, and I'd compressed the heel padding enough that I was slopping around in them. I had MK Professional blades on those, and the Pros are a good, quality mid-level blade. When I went up to my SPTeri Super Teris (again, an older model...they'd been on the shelf for a long time--I got a good deal), I switched to Vision blades, because I wanted a smaller radius for better spinning. I did have to get used to the new, larger king pick, though! But I adore my Visions. I was in FS3 by that time, however. And I am pretty rough on boots...I can't imagine remaining in a Bronze Star for years...I'd trash those within 6 months doing no more than toe loops! People can be very different to their boots!

I'm also not sure exactly how much experience you really have....you sound quite knowledgable, but we're not used to seeing large amounts of knowledge here from folks who are a) teaching themselves and b) don't yet have a waltz jump. So we may be underestimating you somewhat.

Getting equipment that is perfect for you takes some trial and error...for pretty much everybody. We just hate to see your 'trial and error' occur on the high end of the scale, before you have a good idea of what kind of skating you'll do, and how hard you might be on your skates. But it's possible that you actually do understand this, and we just aren't getting clear on that at the moment.

Oh, and I think the Grafs may be ok...if you know you do well with a stiff boot. I've never skated in them, but some friends have them. (One hated hers, but she's got 'problem' feet and dislikes a number of brands. The other seems to like hers just fine.) Just be sure to follow good advice for breaking them in, and especially good advice for what to wear on your feet, and how to lace them up for the break-in period.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

[sue123]

The blades on the other hand I'm feeling a bit uncertain about, because of the (mostly) negative opinions on them here. It probably wouldn't be too much trouble to cancel the order and get some Coronation Aces in instead, however I want to think about that . I'm not worried about them wearing out by the time I get to the point of being able to do double jumps (if I ever even manage to, singles seem a distant goal for now :) )...because if this set lasts me a couple years before I have to replace it, I'll consider it a good deal - I'm not concerned about the expense, as much as whether they will be as usable by me.

I knew they were overkill, but the big question is - will they hinder my progress? I don't mind a steep learning curve, because if this is something I might eventually graduate to with years of practice, wouldn't it be better to learn on them now, instead of having to relearn later? Will I be able to skate as well on the gold stars, given time? I was under the impression that either could be gotten used to. Yes, as some have said, I am most certainly under the inaccurate "bigger is better" influence, but I figured it would be good to start with the best, and learn what I could live without, rather than not know what I was missing out on (this ideal mostly came from starting with really poor skates).

you're asking if you'll ever be able to do moves and spins and jumps properly in the blades. Well, the problem is, you may never learn them in such advanced blades. When you start with lower ones, you can learn the moves, learn the feel of them, learn approximately how much force you need to put in, etc. so when you progress to more advanced blades, you already know how the move is to be accomplished, and what hte end result is supposed to be. Yes, there will be a bit of adjustment before you can do them perfectly again, but it's not a long time. When I skated as a kid, before i went back and now have to relearn everything, i don't think it took me more than a day or two after breaking in the skates before i was able to pick up where i left off.

will you be able to learn the moves on the gold stars? maybe. or you could get discouraged and give up before anything comes out of it. You may say now that you won't quit, but it happens a lot when people can't do something. I'll be the first to admit that i didn't like having to start from square one to learn all the jumps and spins again. But if I had bought a pair of skates and blades equivalent to what i was on when i stopped (i was working on doubles at the time) i would have been so discouraged because even something like a 3 turn i wouldn't have been able to do. So i downgraded, so to speak, and am i glad i did? hell yea, because I'm enjoying skating, not feeling like i'm fighting with the boot or blade.

i think the main part of this post is that skating is supposed to be fun. very few people have fun when they're attempting something and keep falling on it. It's a lot more fun to see the progress. And learning everything on gold stars, well, you're not going to see much progress on those anytime soon.

btw, how would you bend the blade? the only feasible way i could see to bend them is if you take a hammer and bend it out of shape. i've fallen so many times, and my blades are still straight.

[jp1andOnly]

btw, how would you bend the blade? the only feasible way i could see to bend them is if you take a hammer and bend it out of shape. i've fallen so many times, and my blades are still straight.


My brother bent many blades. His favorite ones to bend were pattern 99's. When the blades were taken off the boot you could the the plate bent as well as the blade. It was only when he got ultimas that he stopped bending them.

BTW he was doing triples and working on quads

[sue123]

My brother bent many blades. His favorite ones to bend were pattern 99's. When the blades were taken off the boot you could the the plate bent as well as the blade. It was only when he got ultimas that he stopped bending them.

BTW he was doing triples and working on quads

well then he's a very powerful skater. but i can't imagine bending blades when you're working on a waltz jump. maybe if they were the walmart specials, but a decent pair from a reputable seller, i don't htink they'd bend so easily from a waltz.

[fadedstardust]

When unlaced, if I force my foot as far forward as I can, I can squeeze in a finger behind my heel, but the fitter said this is okay (he was concerned about them being too small).


Uhhhhh no, that is definitely NOT okay. Too big. And it's not abnormal not to be able to wiggle the little toe in your boot, as long as it isn't being crushed. My feeling is your boot is too big.


The blades on the other hand I'm feeling a bit uncertain about, I knew they were overkill, but the big question is - will they hinder my progress?


YES, no question about it. It's hard to explain but....here it is: each blade has a certain window of usage guideline in mind. You bought blades for people who have been jumping, spinning, and skating for a very long time- an experienced blade, top end actually. Now, advanced skaters could CONTROL those blades perfectly fine, however, you could not. Think of launching into a 3-turn. Coronation aces are controllable blades for your level. Gold Stars will send you to China before you have the strength to check the turn it will send you into, because they are much more powerful. They are also faster blades. The problem with this is...you'll never work to learn to push and really work your edges and build up your muscles as much as you would in a less advanced blade. The blade will be doing too much of the work FOR you, if you will. When you're a Senior level skater, that's not a problem because you're doing triple jumps and the little help those blades give don't take away from your workout, but at the start up level, it makes a difference. And spins, oh Lord, spins. You want to take it slow. You want to have CONTROL. You will not be able to center and control these spins half as easily on the Gold Stars as you would on lower end blades. Same with jumps! All jumps involve toe-pick action or three turns and the like, to learn to control the Gold Star's edge turns and toe pick, you need to KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING.

I get your point about "well if I'm going to graduate to them later...." First, cold hard truth: unless you think you're going to be doing triple jumps, you will NEVER need these blades, ever ever ever. You can go up to a Phantom (which I hate) or a Pattern 99 (which aren't blades that get bent if you're a girl, it's guys that break them, they can handle a girl's weight just fine- I should know since I've worn them for a long time). Anyhow, you may never need these blades. It's more likely that someday your coach will make you switch to a blade more appropriate to your level (away from the Gold Stars) and then you'll really be lost. Point is...can you learn your basics on Gold Stars? Perhaps, if you want a simple three turn to take you three years to learn how to check. But why would you pay 200 extra dollars to make life HARDER for yourself? These blades have absolutely ZERO to offer you, they will only hurt you. I guarantee it. Quote me for all I care, and go ask your fitter. If he's the least bit honest (and knowledgeable) he'll agree with me.

[Casey]

What were you skating on before the Klingbeils?

I don't know the brand - the skates had never been used, but were some 20 years old. This was my first plunge into skating, and I didn't know anything about what I was doing - I bought them before I knew the value of stiff boots - the ankle support was nearly nonexistant, and my roomate told me the blade was a joke.

I didn't really understand the extent of his words until I got the pair of used Klingbeils and felt the difference.

I could skate forward pretty decently, with a crossover or two, and move backward, but that was about it.

Sounds about the same as me. I got pretty good at crossovers on them, and could do a sloppy 3 turn, but not well, and balancing on one foot was difficult and I could not manage it for long. A much better skater noticed me one day and told me that I needed better skates if I wanted to progress much further. This being the second opinion convinced me to finally got the Klingbeils. I got them pretty cheap, which was a curse - because they're really worn in, and the blade isn't so great; but also a blessing - because they are much better than the last pair I owned, and have allowed me to progress further without spending too much money on a used pair.

I'm also not sure exactly how much experience you really have....you sound quite knowledgable, but we're not used to seeing large amounts of knowledge here from folks who are a) teaching themselves and b) don't yet have a waltz jump. So we may be underestimating you somewhat.

Well, thanks for the compliment, but I'm not very experienced yet! I have just been really obsessive about skating as it's the best thing I've done in years.

To give you an idea, I can do forward crossovers very well, forward 3-turns pretty good (best is right then left insides, outsides are still rough), cross rolls, a 360 degree or more turn on any edge (both CCW edges are cleaner than CW). Probably the most impressive thing I can do now is gain a lot of speed with crossovers on one end of the rink, round the other half on an outside edge while holding the free foot up with either hand (I do this more to learn balance better than anything), and end it with a series of 3-turns turned into full rotations. I can only barely waltz jump (currently giving it a rest because I strained my foot the last time), and can't really spin at all (but a lot of that may be because of the large rocker). Just a beginner yet, don't let me give you false impression. :)

...before you have a good idea of what kind of skating you'll do, and how hard you might be on your skates.

I wore out the first pair (albeit poor quality) quickly. They were pretty much shot in a little more than a month (around 60 hours skating). I know I'm not using them terribly hard now, but I skate harder as time goes on, and intend to learn more jumps with time.

I'm pretty darn persistant about skating...when I first started and 3 hours out would leave me laying in bed sore and exhausted I'd just get up and go again the next day. My first boots caused a lot of blistering on the top of my foot where the tongue bit in without having enough padding...the Klingbeils were extraordinarily painful at first. I've had some unfortunate falls on my wrists which hurt for days and one on my elbow which is still sore nearly 2 weeks later. But I won't be discouraged!! The fun and excitement alone is worth it, and making progress is great too. :)

I am always wanting to learn more though, and even my short time here has been very informative!

[md2be]

well then he's a very powerful skater. but i can't imagine bending blades when you're working on a waltz jump. maybe if they were the walmart specials, but a decent pair from a reputable seller, i don't htink they'd bend so easily from a waltz.
The only skaters ive ever heard of bending blades are the big boys....arutr, lloyd, and even todd (doing a triple). Otherwise, it takes something like Harding's steel rod to bend a blade. :)

[Casey]

well then he's a very powerful skater. but i can't imagine bending blades when you're working on a waltz jump. maybe if they were the walmart specials, but a decent pair from a reputable seller, i don't think they'd bend so easily from a waltz.

I'm not worried about bending blades in a waltz, I'm worried about bending them months down the road, maybe a normal single jump wouldn't hurt them, but what of a few bad landings and stumbles in a row when learning them?

Really though, the fact that the blades are stronger was just a nice point to them...mostly I just assumed that higher end blades would be better all around, which it isn't sounding like...

[md2be]

Well, the last thing I will say is this: the more often you skate, the more the blades will need to be sharpened. A pair of blades can wear out their sharpening potential within a year...so buying now to grow into something in years from now is not really the smartest approach. The more you skate, the more you sharpen, the more you sharpen, the more you lose your blade...

Good Luck in whatever you decide!

[Casey]

The only skaters ive ever heard of bending blades are the big boys....arutr, lloyd, and even todd (doing a triple). Otherwise, it takes something like Harding's steel rod to bend a blade. :)

My roomate tells me that he has broken several in the past. He focused more on spins than jumps, so these would have probably been singles or doubles that did it (will have to ask him).

[AstarZ41]

I'm not worried about bending blades in a waltz, I'm worried about bending them months down the road, maybe a normal single jump wouldn't hurt them, but what of a few bad landings and stumbles in a row when learning them?
No way! Blades don't bend. You have to be doing some SERIOUS jumping (quads...) to maybe bend them. Singles are nothing! You shouldn't even be worrying about this.

Also, I understand you're trying to look ahead to when you'll be needing this kind of equipment, but really, getting to the point of learning doubles takes several years of serious skating.

mostly I just assumed that higher end blades would be better all around, which it isn't sounding like...
Right, the best blades are the ones that are appropriate for your level. There's a reason Aces and Pros are different from Gold Seals and Gold Stars. They combine everything that will help you learn the skills at that level without the unnecessary massive toe picks etc. But don't worry about quality, MK and Wilson blades are all high quality. And no, they're not gonna bend ;)

[Casey]

Uhhhhh no, that is definitely NOT okay. Too big. And it's not abnormal not to be able to wiggle the little toe in your boot, as long as it isn't being crushed. My feeling is your boot is too big.

Hmm, well that is concerning and I wondered the same myself. But I asked the fitter and he said it was okay, as I could not move my heal when the boots were laced. He wears Grafs himself, and has quite a lot of experience, so I would be surprised if he misrecommended them.

The problem with this is...you'll never work to learn to push and really work your edges and build up your muscles as much as you would in a less advanced blade.
...
to learn to control the Gold Star's edge turns and toe pick, you need to KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING.

*nods* That's kind of what I picked up and wondered about from the other comments, and for something hard to put, I think you put it quite well. :)

...bent if you're a girl...

Well, I'm a guy, unfortunately. Probably wouldn't break them nonetheless.

Quote me for all I care, and go ask your fitter. If he's the least bit honest (and knowledgeable) he'll agree with me.

I plan to call him in the morning (I didn't want to call him earlier today as I wanted to wait and take all possible commentary from this thread into account - I rushed too much the first time), and discuss the blades with him and try to figure out what's best. Your insight has been most valuable (and others' too). I'll ask again about the boot size too - it might be best to step down to a size 10 (of course that means I'll have to wait a few weeks for it to be ordered in, but such is life).

I don't know which way I'll go for sure yet - it sure is tough to decide! But I'll raise the issues mentioned here and ask him for insight.

Maybe it would be good to learn moves on the klingbeil blades first, and then refine them on the gold stars? Ahh, a lot to weigh... :frus:

[Casey]

And don't they have an 8 inch radius? That's gonna be a pain learning spins and turns. So yeah, that's about $1000 for not even Freestyle 1..

7 inch, and under $800, all in all. Still, as others have pointed out, over $200 less for blades that are quite likely better for me.

[sue123]

I plan to call him in the morning (I didn't want to call him earlier today as I wanted to wait and take all possible commentary from this thread into account - I rushed too much the first time), and discuss the blades with him and try to figure out what's best. Your insight has been most valuable (and others' too). I'll ask again about the boot size too - it might be best to step down to a size 10 (of course that means I'll have to wait a few weeks for it to be ordered in, but such is life).

I don't know which way I'll go for sure yet - it sure is tough to decide! But I'll raise the issues mentioned here and ask him for insight.

Maybe it would be good to learn moves on the klingbeil blades first, and then refine them on the gold stars? Ahh, a lot to weigh... :frus:

just a thought, it is usually good to try on different sizes. My skates, i originally tried on a 7.5, and i thought those were fine, but then i tried on the 7, and those felt snugger, and more secure. but a better fit would be worth the wait. Also, i don't know if you do this or not, but to help with fit, wear a thin sock. I don't know what guys wear, but i usually wear nylon socks, similar to the mondor tights. and make sure you wear them when you tried on the skates as well. it'll keep your foot from flopping around.

[fadedstardust]

My roomate tells me that he has broken several in the past. He focused more on spins than jumps, so these would have probably been singles or doubles that did it (will have to ask him).

....He's broken SEVERAL? While focusing on spins?? No offense, I don't know your roomate, but between the crappy (and uneducated as far as skating goes) advice and these presumably false (and pretty ludicrous) claims about bending/breaking blades, it sounds to me like your roomate is one of those skaters that never accomplished much but likes to talk like they did. I highly doubt your roomate is telling you the truth about blade bending, unless he weighed over 300 pounds when he was jumping his doubles. It's VERY VERY rare for a blade to break. Kurt Browning landed the first quad jump in a Pattern 99 blade- he didn't break it. If I were you, I would get a coach and stay as far away from your roomate's advice as possible regarding skating, because he's done nothing but impressionate you and steer you the wrong way.

As far as you saying "I'm not concerned about bending them now, doing single jumps...but a few months down the road..." I don't know what you have in mind, but unless you're a very special case, you can expect it to take you between one to two years of skating a couple of hours a day, 5 days a week, with 4+ lessons a week to manage learning your doubles. If you skate less, take less lessons, take vacations, etc...this time will increase. If you skate three times a week and have two lessons a week, I'd say more like three to four years before you get your doubles. An axel, on average, takes about a year to learn all on its own. And before you learn it, you need to have ALL your singles solid- and all your singles with loops tacked at the end. That in itself will be at LEAST a year, probably more. Then a year or more for the axel, which isn't even a double jump per se, and THEN doubles. You're in it for the very long haul, you WILL have changed blades before you have to worry about your double jumps, trust me. It doesn't sound like you have a coach as of now- your only real money investement worth your while right now is to give back to blades (and possibly the boots since they are not only too high for your level, but seem ill-fitted) and spend some of that cash on a coach instead, trust me that would do you way more good.

Sorry to type so much but situations like these make me cringe, and I really want you to do this right, or you're going to walk away with bad memories from this sport not too far down the line.

[dbny]

I can't stand it any longer! The radius of a blade is measured in feet, not inches. A blade with a 7 foot radius has the curvature of the circumference of a circle with a 7 foot radius. It's easy to get confused because the size of the hollow is also designated by the term radius, but that is measured in inches.

[Casey]

No offense, I don't know your roomate, but between the crappy (and uneducated as far as skating goes) advice and these presumably false (and pretty ludicrous) claims about bending/breaking blades, it sounds to me like your roomate is one of those skaters that never accomplished much but likes to talk like they did.

No offense taken - I've wondered about the same myself. I've been very foolhardy in not asking around earlier, and especially gullible and seeking huge improvement after using known-poor/mediocre skates.

Of course, there's no perfect answer for anything, but a range of opinions certainly helps!

[Casey]

I can't stand it any longer! The radius of a blade is measured in feet, not inches. A blade with a 7 foot radius has the curvature of the circumference of a circle with a 7 foot radius. It's easy to get confused because the size of the hollow is also designated by the term radius, but that is measured in inches.

:lol: Good catch. If you scroll up to my first mention of it, you'll see I at least wrote it correctly the first time around. ;) It is easy to confuse!

[AstarZ41]

I can't stand it any longer! The radius of a blade is measured in feet, not inches. A blade with a 7 foot radius has the curvature of the circumference of a circle with a 7 foot radius. It's easy to get confused because the size of the hollow is also designated by the term radius, but that is measured in inches.
:lol: You're right! :oops: A 7 inch circle would be way too small.

And I must have been thinking of Gold Seals, they're the ones with the 8' radius rocker.

Oops cshobe, if you're a guy then that does change my opinion about boots a little. You may need a stiffer boot since you'll probably be heavier on your skates.

[icedancer2]

I agree with most of what has been said here, especially about the blade issues. I have seen TONS of adult-beginner-type skaters with blades that I wouldn't be caught dead wearing (Phantoms, Gold Seals, Gold Stars, etc.) because I know that they are way too much blade for me, and I've been skating since I was a little kid and now into adulthood!

I keep wondering about some of the problems that I see with these skaters and have often thought that the blades they were on (mostly high-level freestyle blades with gigantic picks!) were too much for them. I have tried to talk them into getting coronation Ace or MK Pro, and they act like they are not good enough for them.

Why not? what is so great about their skating that they need the top-level blade? Is it about being able to spend the money, or is it about just thinking gradiose thoughts?

Now I wear a pretty top-line dance blade that frankly I don't like that much because on some level it is too much blade for me. Sure, the edges feel clean and nice and they FEEL expensive (good flow, all of that) -- but still, it's too much and I'm thinking of downgrading to a more "common" dance blade...

I once saw a little girl testing her pre-pre Moves -- she was about 6 and she was wearing gold-plated blades with huge picks -- I think they were Gold Seals -- she could hardly skate and she didn't pass this test. I was positive it was because of the blade. What were her parents thinking? (They want the "best" for their little darling, but don't realize that what's best for Todd Eldrige isn't necessarilly the best for the beginner skater!) :roll:

Okay, end of rant.

Good luck with your boots and I hope the blade thing works out. In any case, welcome to the wacky, wonderful world of skating!! :)

[Anita18]

....He's broken SEVERAL? While focusing on spins??

That was the first thing I thought of too, LOL. 8O I've read that Alexei Yagudin (who's a hard jumper) flattens his boot heels occasionally, but I've never ever heard of him breaking blades. I don't think he wears Gold Stars either - but last I heard, he was wearing a Wilson blade. Jeff Buttle skates on Pattern 99's, and obviously does triple axels and such on them. (He's a little guy, I know, but still, big jumps!)

Anyway, I highly doubt that you'll bend any blade anytime soon, unless you turn out to be a very very VERY hard jumper. (That part can be fixed since you're supposed to land lightly, especially if you're only working on singles..) And if you're a very very VERY big guy, LOL. I saw a big guy working on his doubles once. Pretty impressive. :bow:

From what I know, you should be able to wiggle your toes a teeny little bit when you have the boots laced up. The heel (as well as the rest of your foot but especially the heel) should not move AT ALL when you have the boot on. I dunno about extra space or anything - maybe your feet are wide like mine and you got a larger size to accomodate that. Better choice would be to get a combination size, if Grafs come in that. My first skates were waaay too big but I had to get them since the smaller sizes at the store wouldn't accomodate the width at the balls. A decrease from your shoe size of only 0.5 doesn't seem adequate. I was wearing size 7 shoes when I was fitted with size 5.5 skates, and now I'm wearing size 6.5 shoes cause skating made my feet smaller, LOL.

A large radius may be a mostly psychological thing. I have a skating friend whose footwork and spins seriously kick ***, and she learned them all on a 8' radius blade. Makes me feel pathetic, cause I have a hard enough time turning on a 7' blade. :roll:

Anyway, if you're worried about having to relearn and adjust your skating, it's going to seem that way everytime any little thing changes for you, since you're just starting out. If I didn't skate at least once a week, I really felt it. If I sharpened my skates, I wouldn't be able to do anything for a session. Everything had to be juuuuuust right for me to do a 3-turn or a spin or a jump. When I was more experienced, I was able to adjust much more easily because my body knows what's supposed to happen. At least, theoretically. :) (That especially pertains to the part about practicing, LOL...I've gone months without skating and I'm still able to land jumps and do the spins I left off with)

I dunno if it's a trend, but I've noticed that it's a lot harder for us older beginning skaters to just stop analyzing and start skating. But really, that's what gives us the most progress. :)

[AstarZ41]

A large radius may be a mostly psychological thing. I have a skating friend whose footwork and spins seriously kick ***, and she learned them all on a 8' radius blade. Makes me feel pathetic, cause I have a hard enough time turning on a 7' blade.
Maybe she just has a talent for it? ;) But for most people, my guess it that with a smaller radius the rocker is more pronounced, so the sweet spot is easier to find. That's why when you switch to an 8' it takes a while to find the sweet spot again.

I was wearing size 7 shoes when I was fitted with size 5.5 skates, and now I'm wearing size 6.5 shoes cause skating made my feet smaller, LOL.
:lol: I noticed that my toes used to be further apart, but now they are sort of pressed together very compact in the shape of my boots.

[Blosmbubbs]

Cshobe, I am a competitive skater and coach and I have the Graf Edmonton specials. My shoe size is 6 1/2 and my skates are 4's. So you can see Graf's are made big so you should go down a size or two when being measured. Please note these skates break down a lot faster than a Klingbeil or riedell but seeing as you are only doing beginning stuff it shouldn't bother you. The Gold star blades are a bit advanced I'd say. I started out with professionals then went to phantoms but hated the huge toepick. I got my first pair of gold seals when I was doing double jumps. I have never bent a blade, referring to the professionals which is the first blade I had. I did axels in them and some doubles. Trust me even the lowest, cheapest blade will not bend, they are designed not to bend. Go with either MK's or John Wilson blades, but reconsider the gold stars. 8-)

[Casey]

And if you're a very very VERY big guy
Nah, I'm not terribly big (but not as light as many, either). I'm 5'11", and 155lbs. The funny part is that for years I weighed 10 pounds less - skating put on the extra weight. :P

From what I know, you should be able to wiggle your toes a teeny little bit when you have the boots laced up. The heel (as well as the rest of your foot but especially the heel) should not move AT ALL when you have the boot on.
This is indeed the case. I cannot move my heel nor any of my foot when the boot is on and laced, it's only if I loosen the laces as far as I can and pull the tongue out as much as possible that I find I can push my feet forward enough to get a finger in...

maybe your feet are wide like mine
This they are. This is one of the reason I liked the Teris (my roomates are size 10E).

A decrease from your shoe size of only 0.5 doesn't seem adequate.
The measurement for 11 was actually taken with a Graf measuring tool, from heel to big toe.

[russiet]

I just bought to figure skates in mid-December. I am probably at or about your skill level and very athletic (or so I delude myself to think). I have all my 3-turns (some of course better than others) mohawks & choctaws. I just started waltz jumps. Spins I haven't got the nack of yet. I had been on hockey skates, having started skating four years ago.

The pro shop I went to (Sharper Edge in Peabody MA. Jonathan English runs the shop out of his house.) really helped to get me headed on the right track.

I bought Jackson Elite boots (heat moldable, black suede, way cool). I was told that I could expect them to hold up fo 5 or 6 years before they might start breaking down too much. They're breaking in nicely with creases at the flex notches. They are available in three widths, and at the shop we "blew 'em out" at a couple of hot spots through the use of a boot press. The boots cost $310. We also customized the foot bed to account a pronation issue. Here's a link were you can see both skates & blades:

http://www.jacksonskates.com/html/frames/frameset-Ultima.html

For blades, I bought Jackson's entry level Mirage. I think they only cost $50. They'll get me a long way. Jonathan explained that as I progessed we could swap out to an intermediate blade. I'm thinking I'll get a year or two out of these before moving on.

Although advertised with a 1/2" radius hollow, he ground them with a 5/8" radius. I was coming off of hockey skates and he didn't want me to kill myself. The rocker is 8', which seemed large after coming off a hockey blade. Very stable in comparison, though.

All told I put out (with tax....what a killer! I live in New Hampshire where there is no sales tax, but I bought these in Tax-achuesettes) about $450.

Now I'm looking forward to getting good enough to warrant the next level blade. Lessons start next week!

So, that's what I did. I got a good boot that will allow me to progress, and a blade which I will leave behind as I get better. The boot was fit to me by an expert - that's key in my mind.

Well, whatever you end up doing, good luck & have fun.

[backspin]

The best advice you've gotten here is to trade in the super-high-end blades & spend the money on coaching. I'm curious why you haven't signed up for lessons or gotten a coach, when you're obviously serious about this & money doesn't seem to be a problem? What you think you are doing right, or well, may not be the case at all when you don't know what you're doing. You'll learn bad habits that are very, very hard to break later. Anyone can skate an outside edge--but to skate it with correct body position is something different.

Your local rink may have a list of coaches if you ask at the office. Or they could tell you what clubs are in your area, which can give you their list of coaches.

[flippet]

Nah, I'm not terribly big (but not as light as many, either). I'm 5'11", and 155lbs. Well, you're skinnier than my hubby, and he's only got Riedell 320s, which haven't broken down yet (although he's not yet jumping, just in the basic levels).

For fitting, as others have said, you want to wear the thinnest socks possible. Some people even skate barefoot, though I don't particularly recommend it--has great potential to cause wicked blisters. Personally, I skate in nylon knee-hi stockings...I like them even thinner than skating tights. Guys seem to have a problem with that, for some reason though, so I usually see them skating in thin dress socks.

The boot fit: your toes should just barely touch the end of the boot, when standing (and after the heel has been well kicked-down). If they don't touch--too big. If they're bent and cramped--too small. Tip here...be sure your toenails are rather short! :D Your heel should not move at all when the boots are laced. Not one millimeter.

Ankles 'should' 'hurt' in new skates. Not raw, unbearable pain, of course, but if they feel like bedroom slippers, you're in a far too large size. Boots of ankles are often 'punched out' to stretch the precise spot where your ankle bones hit. Heat-molding can also do this trick for you...but again, it's unlikely that they'll feel 'soft-n-squishy' comfortable (although I have heard that Grafs tend to be more comfortable than most from the start, once heat-molded). There will still be some break-in discomfort to deal with.

You'll probably be okay in the Edmontons, though it's not what many of us would have recommended for you (obviously!) Just be sure you don't lace them all the way to the top at first, so that you can still get the proper knee-bend--this is crucial. But I'd really re-think the blade. And I totally second the suggestion that you spend the extra cash on lessons. Although you don't seem to be one of 'these'...I've known a few guys that really seemed to want to learn how to figure skate, but were hesitant about committing to lessons...it was as if they felt they were going to be taught all that fluffy, fairy-armed stuff (and likely from a female coach), and they didn't want that. Or, they thought that they'd be embarrassed, being probably the only adult, and usually the only male skater taking figure skating lessons. Or afraid their hockey or beer buddies might see them. Like I said, it doesn't particularly sound like you, but if you've got even a scrap of any of those attitudes....ditch them right now! You'll learn the basics just like anyone else would...having arms in a certain position isn't 'fluff' at the basic levels...it's simply where your body weight and balance need to be to execute a move properly. Skaters LOVE to see men in lessons...you'll be happily mobbed, I promise you. And if any of your bone-headed buddies do see you...whoop-de-doo. Who needs 'em?

Give yourself the gift of lessons. You won't regret it. :D

[flippet]

Although advertised with a 1/2" radius hollow, he ground them with a 5/8" radius. I was coming off of hockey skates and he didn't want me to kill myself.
So then...a bit flatter than normal? (All those fractions always screw me up.) I've got a 3/8" grind (I believe...either 3/8 or 7/16...I can never remember which, and it seems that some grinders actually can do either measurement.) Anyway, it's a bit 'sharper' than normal...but then, I really like my blades to 'bite'...makes me feel more secure. I also do my blades myself at this point, with a Pro-Filer (so I guess that definitely makes it a 3/8"). I'm one of those 'picky' types who really, really doesn't want some moronic hockey kid in the pro shop to stuff it up with my 'babies'.

Don't you find you slide around sideways a bit? Although...if you're a guy, you've probably got more weight to you, so you're likely to have a bit more 'bite' anyway, so I suppose it all evens out.

[russiet]

So then...a bit flatter than normal?....Don't you find you slide around sideways a bit? Although...if you're a guy, you've probably got more weight to you, so you're likely to have a bit more 'bite' anyway, so I suppose it all evens out.

Yes, a bit flatter. I opposed his reccomendation at first sighting that my hockey skates had a 1/2" grind. He flattly said that was not what I should be using at first. You have to realize that up until 2 weeks ago all I knew was hockey skates.

I was glad I listened. The first few times I was on the figures it felt like I was on rails.

I don't know what will happen at the first sharpening. I'll let my instructor decide what grind I should get. Right now things feel good.

I weigh 160 pounds (6' tall). I'm sure that helps 'em bite in.

[aviva_dawn]

This may belong in another forum, but I was wondering what boots/blades you all wear and what level you skate at.

I'll go first. I've been skating since I was 8 on and off. I stopped between the time that I was 12 and the time I was 17. I had all of my doubles .

Then I had to relearn everything when I started skating again.
I have all of my singles again ( including the axel), and my double sal, toe, flip and loop. Still trying to get my lutz. I wear SP Teri boots and MK Double Star Blades.

Next person. :bow:

[fadedstardust]

I skate Novice (testing up sometime this year, taking this year off competitions for various injuries but still training) and wear custom Riedells with Pattern 99 blades. I refuse to get Gold Seals until I test Seniors, I always believed it was a rite of passage, ironically, haha. I LOVE Pattern 99's though, so who knows if I'll even switch. I considered custom Harlicks for a while there, but I love love love Riedells (they get a bad rep for no reason...) so I'm sticking to what I've got.

[backspin]

I'm on my last silver dance & intermediate moves.

I have custom Klingbeils w/ Ultima Ascend dance blades. I'm hoping the boots will last another year (they're 2 years old now), and then I'm going to shop around to see if there's another boot I like. The Klingbeils have always fit great, but they twist over time & cause problems for me w/ getting a true outside edge on my left foot. I think this is an issue because I'm very flat footed.

[Sk8tngMommy]

My daughter is 9, landing all singles and double sal, double toe. She skates on Gam 95s with Vision blades.

Side note in regards to over doing it with blades: My daughter tried the vision blades last year (I was offered a basically brand new pair for $40.00) and she was a disaster. At that time, she had passed prelim dances, prelim skills, and was working on a lutz and the visions were terrible. She spent far more time on her butt than she did on her blades. This year they were perfect. She had about a week of getting used to the new pick pattern (she was in professionals last year), but other than that all has been well. The blade can make a HUGE difference, and I really hope you have reconsidered.

[Blosmbubbs]

I found that with the Edmonton specials I had to lace them all the way up when I first got them. Grafs are a totally different type of break in experience compared to Harlick, Spteri and Riedell. I did have new blades too so I didn't jump or spin for about a week.

[Mrs Redboots]

I'm just going to go against the grain here - my Gams were totally comfortable right from the first day I had them! Okay, I had to learn not to pull the laces tightly over the foot, but all the money I invested in blister-dressings, foot cream, etc, was wasted! I skated 2 hours the first day I had them, and never looked back. This was at least 7 or 8 years ago, and although I have skated a minimum of 6 hours a week ever since, they've been fine. Sadly, they are approaching the end of their life now, as are the Team Precision blades I had fitted to them (which took me a lot longer to adjust to than the boots did!). I'd been going to get Coronation Dance, but there was a shortage of blades at the time.

[Casey]

I spoke with the fitter on the phone today, and asked both about the boots and the blades.

He was confident that the boots were certainly not too small, since they were secure when laced. I also checked my roomate's SP Teris, and both of our feet could slide forward in the boot the same amount when the laces were greatly loosened, so it really seems that they are sized appropriately. I said that I was really happy with the comfort level of the boot, just wanted to check that.

I did say that the biggest concern was over the blades - that I had spoken to several people, and there were concerns that they might be too much blade for my skill level, to the point of impeding my progress - so I was curious what he thought on that. He said that A> there would be no problem changing the blade order if that's what I wanted, especially since he thought the Coronation Ace blades would be fine, and B> that although the Gold Star blades were of an advanced level, and would make skating more "interesting" for the first few months of using them, that he believed I should be able to adjust without too much difficulty, and that they would probably not cause my progress to slow to any great degree.

I spoke to my roomate about the blades as well (I hadn't discussed the particular blades before - he'd formerly agreed with the fitter's initial recommendation of Coronation Aces - his blades are Four Aces). He said he thought I should be fine - that yes, they were more blade than I needed, but I should be able to do everything on them. He had not used Gold Stars before, but had Gold Seals at one point.

So, I decided...

*drumroll*

...that I'd just stick with the original order, and go ahead and give the Gold Stars a shot. Call me stubborn, but I guess if they're really awful for me, I'll just have to learn the hard way. :)

I took a closer look at the Klingbeils after skating today. The blades are 11" - too short to use on the new boots, and they are John Wilson Majestics. I looked online for the specifications and found that they have a 7' rocker, so either my previous statement that they may be 8' or even 9' was a misestimate by the fitter or a misunderstanding by me, or the rocker has been damaged overtime by poor sharpening.
http://www.skate-connection.com/figursk8/figblade/fb_jw_maje.htm

One thing I find interesting is that the specifications say the blades come with a 5/8" bore (this seems quite flat!). When I first got the blades, the bottoms were quite rusty, so I had them sharpened at my usual rink, which didn't give me an option for the bore depth - it measured as being 1/2". When I just got them sharpened last by the fitter, I had him make it closer to 7/8". It took an hour or so to get used to the change, but I've found that I like the 7/8" bore a lot more - funny part is that the things that got harder were things I think I was not doing as well - for instance the change was much more noticeable when it came to doing CW footwork as opposed to CCW.

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions - though I decided to give the Gold Stars a try anyways, your input was much appreciated, and I'll let you all know how it goes as I start skating on the blades!

As for the lessons some of you have suggested, they are definitely in my plans! I do want to learn/refine my footwork some more before doing so. I've talked my roomate into starting skating again (he hasn't for 3 years - he's pushing 40 now), and he's going to help me refine my weak areas and learn to do backwards crossovers. I plan to hire a coach shortly though...probably after another month.

[backspin]

As for the lessons some of you have suggested, they are definitely in my plans! I do want to learn/refine my footwork some more before doing so....... I plan to hire a coach shortly though...probably after another month.


:giveup: :giveup: :giveup:

[mikawendy]

well then he's a very powerful skater. but i can't imagine bending blades when you're working on a waltz jump. maybe if they were the walmart specials, but a decent pair from a reputable seller, i don't htink they'd bend so easily from a waltz.

It's possible to bend a blade that is "temporary mounted" with fewer than usual screws. The pro shop where I bought my current pair attaches the blades with approximately 4 screws each until the skater is sure that the blade placement is correct. During that time, edgework only is allowed, no jumps or spins, as that could bend the blades ever so slightly. Once the skater likes the placement, additional screws are added.

Interestingly, when I picked up that pair from the shop, I brought them my old pair for a sharpening. We discovered that my old pair of skates had only ever had 4 screws each holding the blades in. They checked and discovered that my blades were bent. They had a special tool to help unbend them.

[singerskates]

Sounds about the same as me. I got pretty good at crossovers on them, and could do a sloppy 3 turn, but not well, and balancing on one foot was difficult and I could not manage it for long. A much better skater noticed me one day and told me that I needed better skates if I wanted to progress much further. This being the second opinion convinced me to finally got the Klingbeils. I got them pretty cheap, which was a curse - because they're really worn in, and the blade isn't so great; but also a blessing - because they are much better than the last pair I owned, and have allowed me to progress further without spending too much money on a used pair.

Well, thanks for the compliment, but I'm not very experienced yet! I have just been really obsessive about skating as it's the best thing I've done in years.

To give you an idea, I can do forward crossovers very well, forward 3-turns pretty good (best is right then left insides, outsides are still rough), cross rolls, a 360 degree or more turn on any edge (both CCW edges are cleaner than CW). Probably the most impressive thing I can do now is gain a lot of speed with crossovers on one end of the rink, round the other half on an outside edge while holding the free foot up with either hand (I do this more to learn balance better than anything), and end it with a series of 3-turns turned into full rotations. I can only barely waltz jump (currently giving it a rest because I strained my foot the last time), and can't really spin at all (but a lot of that may be because of the large rocker). Just a beginner yet, don't let me give you false impression. :)

Oh, boy. You are using a blade way to advanced for you. You should not beusing a blade more advanced than a Coronation Comet. Bring back the blades you bought and save the difference for lessons from a coach. Coronation Comets are made by John Wilson and can be found at
http://www.johnwilsonskates.com

These will give you more balance for beginning elements. When you've almost got your lutz and do have your back spin, it's time to move up to a Pattern 99 if you're at least 120 lbs or more. Otherwise stay with Coronation Comets until you've got your axel consistant and a flying spin.

Brigitte

[skaternum]

So why won't you start lessons right now?? I don't get it. Getting a roommate to "help" you has the potential to screw things up. What is your objection to getting a coach now, before you learn a bunch of bad habits? :?:

[fadedstardust]

He said that A> there would be no problem changing the blade order if that's what I wanted, especially since he thought the Coronation Ace blades would be fine, and B> that although the Gold Star blades were of an advanced level, and would make skating more "interesting" for the first few months of using them, that he believed I should be able to adjust without too much difficulty, and that they would probably not cause my progress to slow to any great degree.


Well, you're clearly not trying to hear what the fitter is trying to tell you. At least he seems like an honest guy, and it seems pretty clear he agrees with all of us that Gold Stars are a mistake. Oh well, you probably won't learn for yourself though because you'll just make everything harder and never know the difference, it's your feet though.


One thing I find interesting is that the specifications say the blades come with a 5/8" bore (this seems quite flat!). When I first got the blades, the bottoms were quite rusty, so I had them sharpened at my usual rink, which didn't give me an option for the bore depth - it measured as being 1/2". When I just got them sharpened last by the fitter, I had him make it closer to 7/8". It took an hour or so to get used to the change, but I've found that I like the 7/8" bore a lot more - funny part is that the things that got harder were things I think I was not doing as well - for instance the change was much more noticeable when it came to doing CW footwork as opposed to CCW.


What a certain blade comes with really means nothing, it can be adjusted right away. My guess is it came with a flat sharpening because Majestics are beginner blades. Also, this may be my mistake, but why do you keep calling it a "bore"? I've never heard it referred to as anything other than "radius of hollow". I've NEVER heard of a 7/8 R.o.H, 7/16 yes (that's what I skate on) but 7/8 sounds odd. You should be fine on a 7/16 though, if you were a girl I'd say 1/2 to begin with but 7/16 should be a good sharpening for someone of your weight/height/skill level.


As for the lessons some of you have suggested, they are definitely in my plans! I do want to learn/refine my footwork some more before doing so. I've talked my roomate into starting skating again (he hasn't for 3 years - he's pushing 40 now), and he's going to help me refine my weak areas and learn to do backwards crossovers. I plan to hire a coach shortly though...probably after another month.

Okay now, what do you mean by "footwork"? I've seen a lot of people who don't have coaches kind of try to hop around the rink or something and call it footwork, and it really isn't. Do you mean 3-turns? That's not footwork, that's a basic skill (MITF). Or counters, rockers, choctaws, mohawks, etc...? I thought you were a beginner, was I wrong all this time? I highly doubt you're working on these if you have never been coached, and I also don't understand the need to get "better" BEFORE you hire someone to help you progress- that makes no sense at all. You're only going to teach yourself more bad habits that will take even longer to fix the longer you go it alone. So, what do you call footwork, and why do you think it needs to be better before getting a coach? It's obviously your call, I just think that you could be making this experience a lot better for yourself if you listened to some of us on here about some of these things, ESPECIALLY, if nothing else, on the coaching issue.

PS: I wanna add, that I don't mean to sound condescending, I just didn't find a better way to formulate my questions, it has nothing to do with me "making fun" of you being a beginner or anything like that, I truly hope you don't take it that way because that's not at all my intention. I'm just perplexed as to why you're doing things this way, and trying to convince you otherwise because I'm stubborn too. :P

[starskate6.0]

Im on Jacksons,

comfort fit strong boot , very light. I do most of the doubles in them and Im 165lb. :) Iv had mine for about 6 months and I skate fast and hard and there still looking good. Each to there own but I like Jacks. ;)

" The greatest risk in life is not taking one " :D

[Casey]

So why won't you start lessons right now?? I don't get it. Getting a roommate to "help" you has the potential to screw things up. What is your objection to getting a coach now, before you learn a bunch of bad habits? :?:

I actually signed up and paid for lessons today which will be once a week for the next 6 weeks - woo hoo!

Based on the rink employee's personal opinion of my skating, he judged me as being at the Beta level, so I'll be taking Gamma level classes.

I found this page: http://www.cuttingedgeskating.com/levels.htm

Seems that the only thing I'm missing from Beta is backwards crossovers...I'm getting close on those though. My right outside three turn is the worst of the four, and my mohawks are miserable, so I think he judged pretty accurately.

[jenlyon60]

I have custon Klingbeils (3rd pair) and Ultima Ascend dance blades.

Am working on my USFS Silver and Pre-Gold dances, and occasionally on Adult Bronze MIF.

[fadedstardust]

I actually signed up and paid for lessons today which will be once a week for the next 6 weeks - woo hoo!

Based on the rink employee's personal opinion of my skating, he judged me as being at the Beta level, so I'll be taking Gamma level classes.

I found this page: http://www.cuttingedgeskating.com/levels.htm

Seems that the only thing I'm missing from Beta is backwards crossovers...I'm getting close on those though. My right outside three turn is the worst of the four, and my mohawks are miserable, so I think he judged pretty accurately.

Good, very good for you (although you'll have a better blade than probably every single one of your coaches...) but I think if you want to progress fast, you should consider hiring a private coach, and work with him at least a couple of times a week. It seems you are serious at progressing, and those classes you signed up for while mostly everyone (me included) go through them when they're little kids, if you are starting out as an adult, they might take too much time to make you learn things. I mean, they are designed so you move up levels about every year or so. You would learn a lot more with a coach one on one who can target your desires and needs, and then you can move into testing some time down the line, if you are interested in competing. Just a thought.

[mdvask8r]

Group lessons is a good starting point for anyone. Gives you time & opportunity to scope out the coaches & get a feel for which one(s) you want to approach about private lessons.

[flippet]

I actually signed up and paid for lessons today which will be once a week for the next 6 weeks - woo hoo!

Based on the rink employee's personal opinion of my skating, he judged me as being at the Beta level, so I'll be taking Gamma level classes.

I found this page: http://www.cuttingedgeskating.com/levels.htm

Seems that the only thing I'm missing from Beta is backwards crossovers...I'm getting close on those though. My right outside three turn is the worst of the four, and my mohawks are miserable, so I think he judged pretty accurately.

Good for you. :D You won't regret getting lessons sooner rather than later. However....if you don't yet have back crossovers, then you'll be starting in Beta, not Gamma. Usually, I've found that in the introductory levels, a coach will teach a variety of things from neighboring levels, but at the end of the session, they'll test you only on the elements from your level, and see if you pass. I suppose if your skate school is unusually large, they may be more strict about teaching only what's in a single level, but a decent coach won't make you practice back crossovers and nothing else until you pass them. You'll also work on your 3-turns and mohawks, but won't pass Beta until your back crossovers are up to snuff. (These may take a while, too...don't get discouraged. Back crossovers are one of the hardest things to learn to a passing standard for beginners. It took me two full sessions of Beta to pass them properly--everything else in the beginning four levels only took one session for me, and I started about where you're at. (Really, though....you can never improve too much on crossovers....even the elites have areas they can stand to work on with these. It never ends. ;) ) (I will say, though...I never really did get the hockey stop down....I think my coach let me fudge on that just a bit. :lol: )

Oh, and group lessons are just fine, starting out. The only way I'd 'recommend' privates for you at the moment is if A) your coach is holding you back to the level of the 'slowest' person in your group, even if you're clearly advancing faster than that, or B) you have plans to compete, and soon, and want to learn at an advanced rate. With B, however, what makes the most out of that is practice time. Or, C)--you feel you aren't getting enough of the coach's time, and you're falling behind in group lessons. The 'usual' order of progression for most skaters is to take group lessons for the 4 basic levels, and then 'graduate' into privates, though one can take privates at any point.

[love2sk8]

I wear Graf Galaxies and Gold Seals...I have my Senior Comp Singles

[Blosmbubbs]

In Beta you will learn the back crossovers both directions, T stop, back stroking. The secret to good back x overs is to face your upper body to the inside of the circle like your holding a hoola hoop. Of course bend your lower body and keep you upper body tall and look over the shoulder of the arm in back of you. If you need anymore tips just ask I learned all this from my coach and I have been teaching for 2 years.

[Casey]

it seems pretty clear he agrees with all of us that Gold Stars are a mistake.

He doesn't think they're a mistake. He thinks they're more than I need, but does not agree with the popular opinion here that they will be bad for me.

Oh well, you probably won't learn for yourself though because you'll just make everything harder and never know the difference, it's your feet though.

Nah, I'll know the difference - I've got my current skates, after all, and I'll be holding on to them for a while too, in case the new ones truly don't work out. I am a stubborn ba***** though, no denying it. ;)

Also, this may be my mistake, but why do you keep calling it a "bore"?

Because I'm an idiot. I meant radius of hollow. I'm thinking of drill bits or something.

I've NEVER heard of a 7/8 R.o.H, 7/16 yes (that's what I skate on) but 7/8 sounds odd. You should be fine on a 7/16 though, if you were a girl I'd say 1/2 to begin with but 7/16 should be a good sharpening for someone of your weight/height/skill level.

Oops, typo! I meant 7/16", sorry.

Okay now, what do you mean by "footwork"? I've seen a lot of people who don't have coaches kind of try to hop around the rink or something and call it footwork, and it really isn't. Do you mean 3-turns? That's not footwork, that's a basic skill (MITF). Or counters, rockers, choctaws, mohawks, etc...?

Wrong term usage. I meant 3 turns, edges, mohawks, stroking, wiggles.... Basic skills, pretty much.

I wanna add, that I don't mean to sound condescending, I just didn't find a better way to formulate my questions, it has nothing to do with me "making fun" of you being a beginner or anything like that, I truly hope you don't take it that way because that's not at all my intention. I'm just perplexed as to why you're doing things this way, and trying to convince you otherwise because I'm stubborn too. :P

No worries, thanks for the disclaimer though. :D

[Casey]

In Beta you will learn the back crossovers both directions, T stop, back stroking. The secret to good back x overs is to face your upper body to the inside of the circle like your holding a hoola hoop. Of course bend your lower body and keep you upper body tall and look over the shoulder of the arm in back of you. If you need anymore tips just ask I learned all this from my coach and I have been teaching for 2 years.

I actually got these down today!! I am scraping the toepicks a bit when I do them, but I'm getting better, and can do them pretty well now! Woo hoo!!!

[fadedstardust]

Cshobe, just want to say that you have been a really good sport through all the advice people have given you and I really hope you stick around and let everyone know about your progress. And no matter what I think of it, I'm jealous of your blades cause I'm still waiting to someday get my pair so I want to hear about how perfect they are when you try them on. Good luck with your skating! :)

[Casey]

Oh, and group lessons are just fine, starting out. The only way I'd 'recommend' privates for you at the moment is if A) your coach is holding you back to the level of the 'slowest' person in your group, even if you're clearly advancing faster than that, or B) you have plans to compete, and soon, and want to learn at an advanced rate. With B, however, what makes the most out of that is practice time. Or, C)--you feel you aren't getting enough of the coach's time, and you're falling behind in group lessons. The 'usual' order of progression for most skaters is to take group lessons for the 4 basic levels, and then 'graduate' into privates, though one can take privates at any point.

I have been learning at an accelerated rate, in my opinion and others who notice. I started skating 6 weeks ago...and after the last couple days of learning hard, the only things I have holding me back from Freestyle 1 are the Hockey Stop (don't know how to learn this one), the bunny hop (haven't seen/tried this yet), the forward arabesque (haven't seen/tried it either), and the 1/2 flip jump (have not attempted, but my waltz jump is quite passable now). Hopefully I get all those with the public lessons I paid for. I can do backwards crossovers now, but I need to clean them up so there's no toe pick dragging, and master them in the opposite direction as well...but this isn't far off. I'm really happy that I can do all the 3 turns and sometimes the backwards 3 turns now!

I also started doing two-foot spins today, got up to 6-7 rotations! My feet are wobbly though...gotta work on it.

[Mrs Redboots]

Well done about the spin - wish I could do as well.

One thing, though - in skating, never think that just because you can do an element, that means you can forget about it. What happens is, just as you get to where you feel that (say) your 3-turns are rather good, they go and make them harder! The goalposts are always, always, always moving in this sport!

So don't be offended when your coach asks you to work on forward crossovers a year from now - I can absolutely guarantee you that will happen! And the more time you spend working on your basic skating, no matter how good you get, the more it will pay off. You simply can't work too hard on your turns and edges, and you'll see even the elite, star skaters spend lots of time working on them. I'm sure you're longing to jump and spin - and it won't be very long before you do, either - but do bear in mind that the best jumps and spins come from a very strong and solid background. If you get a chance to learn to dance, take it - at the beginner levels the skills are complementary, and it's sensible to learn both at first, and specialise when you have a few tests under your belt in both disciplines! They are overlapping more and more these days, anyway.

[russiet]

...the Hockey Stop (don't know how to learn this one...

Nice job.

I can tell you how I progressed to a good hockey stop. It helped that I was a downhill skier for many years before learning to skate. Try slaloming down the ice and get the feel for the rhythmic down-up-down while weaving your legs underneath. Continue doing this ever more aggressively until you begin to feel your edges breaking free. Now choose one side or the other (you'll hockey stop better on the same side that you T-stop on better) while agressively slaloming and instead of rising up and swinging your legs to the other side, stay low and let your edges continue to slide. Again, again, again...

[Casey]

Well done about the spin

Well, last night I was really on...today I could barely manage 3 rotations, and not as fast.

One thing, though - in skating, never think that just because you can do an element, that means you can forget about it.

I totally, totally agree! I have learned so many things that at one point I thought would be impossible, but at this point I don't want to learn anything beyond FS1 level for a while. I have a lot of refinement to do, two people now have told me now what I was already aware of - my arms are horribly sloppy and go any which way they need to help my balance, which is bad. I'm also working past the habit of looking down which I'll do from time to time...I want to focus hard on getting my basic skills refined and looking good. One thing nice is that the rink got pretty empty for the last hour last night, so I was able to focus on clockwise stuff. My roomate and another skater both asked me today why I was bothering to do the waltz jump in both directions - that I was wasting my time. My response was simply because I can - I want to skate ambidextrously as much as possible.

By the way, when you say dance, do you mean ice dancing, or ballet or something? I have thought about both...

[Blosmbubbs]

Learning some skills in the opposite direction is good, it is not a waste of time. So go for it! I think Mrs. Redboots means Ice Dance which is good for skating. Ballet is great also, it'll help your body positions on the ice and make them look nicer! An arabesque, another name for the "Spiral", is where your gliding on one foot and the other leg lifts up 90 degrees or more. A half flip is where you 3 turn on the left foot for counter clockwise then pick your right foot in the ice and jump one half rotation to the left. Bunny hop is a forward jump where you pick your right or left foot in the ice behind you then kick the same foot through land on it then step on the other foot and glide. Hope this isnt too confusing. ;)

[Mrs Redboots]

By the way, when you say dance, do you mean ice dancing, or ballet or something? I have thought about both...Ice dancing. As a beginner skater, you really should learn some ice dance as well as free skating! In my opinion, anyway - and if you want to be well and truly run after by the ladies, you'll focus on dance!

[md2be]

The pro shop I went to (Sharper Edge in Peabody MA. Jonathan English runs the shop out of his house.) really helped to get me headed on the right track.

J English Rocks! Now there is some good advice from a wise man!

[russiet]

J English Rocks! Now there is some good advice from a wise man!

And funny, too.

At the end of my fitting I emerged out into the main waiting area where several people were waiting for Jonathan. I thanked him and shook his hand, at which point he slyly winks so that only I could see him Then he tells me in a concerned tone "... be careful doing your doubles with this new toe pick".

I loved it. Here I am switching from hockey skates to my first pair of figure skates, and he has the whole room thinking I can jump and do doubles.

What a hoot.