Gymnastics vs Figure Skating

[Inside Edge]

Why is figure skating more popular than gymnastics in North America. Is it something about the sport itself?

One thought that has come to my mind is that the emphasis on artistry in figure skating makes it more entertaining to watch.

[Alexa]

I wonder if it is partly because the big names in gymnastics change so much it is difficult for people to keep up with US achievements in gymnastics. Whereas with figure skating, athletes stay in the sport so much longer and you get a chance to identify with a competitor and therefore want to watch them more.

It could be also that it is simpler to watch a figure skater do a short and long program than it is to follow a gymnast through all of their rotations.

Lastly if you add in the scoring system, that may be a factor as well....it is simpler in figure skating to know what the scores mean in terms of how well they did. In gymnastics, since they have changed the scoring, I think that it is difficult to know how a score compares to another gymnasts score, as they are so much lower now. Nothing like when Mary Lou Retton was a gymnast was able to get such high scores.

[Arsenette]

Maybe because you don't see gymnastics as much and everytime you see it there is a new face. There really is no longevity in the sport of gymnastics by comparison to figure skating. For example I remember talking to someone about gymnastics the other day and they wondered where Dominique Moceanu went. They see gymnastics on TV and *maybe* they will recognize Khorkina if she is competing but no on on the US side. By comparison to figure skating where you practically see the same skaters every other month - the idea of "knowing" people or "recognizing" athletes creates a sense of familiarity. For those who love the sports - doesn't matter "who" is in there - but for those who seldom watch - they would most likely pick something they are familiar with.

[Artemis]

I think the "theatre" element has something to do with it too. Yes gymnasts do wear "costumes," but they're nothing compared to the costumes skater wear. And of course the music -- although female gymnasts now do use music for their floor routines, I have yet to see a performance that I remember because of the music. Skating music, and the fact that skating programs are longer, does a lot to draw the audience in and make the performance more memorable.

[danibellerika]

I think you guys have really good points about the reason. The only person who has been in this sport for a long time that I remember is Svetlana Khorkina. I find it interesting that she's still at the level she is after so long. I think it has something to do with her shape. All of this time people were saying she doesn't have the typical body type but that could be the reason why she is still able to do it(along with hard work of course). America also tends to remember the most successful ones(naturally) ie our Atlanta gold girls. The most popular I'd say were Shannon Miller, Dominique Dawes, Dominique Moceanu, Kerri Strug(for the leg thing), and possibly Amy Chow. Most of them have gone onto other things now naturally. During the time of the Olys though, gymnastics is probably the number 1 sport in terms of ratings with swimming and running being a close second and third. I think that during the Olys, gymnastics and figure skating probably tie in terms of who brings in the most ratings but any other time, it's easier to keep up with figure skating eventhough gymnastics is arguably the more difficult of the two.

[Spark]

I'm a fan of both sports, but I've noticed gymnastics isn't shown on TV nearly as often. I'd watch it just as much as skating if it were aired as much. If gymnastics were as popular as skating in the first place, it probably WOULD be aired more, but since it isn't, even people who are interested in the sport have a hard time following it.

I think you're right about the emphasis on artistry. Both sports encourage style and grace, but figure skating shows more musical interpretation and a wider variety of styles. Skaters show their personalities more than gymnasts.

The athletes themselves may be another reason. Both sports seem to appeal more to a female audience, and in both sports the womens' competitions are more popular than the mens'. Image is important in both sports, but in figure skating the image is more feminine. Women can relate more to figure skaters and admire them because they can be slim, attractive young adults, while gymnasts are usually teenagers that often look like children. I remember Joan Ryan commenting on how much easier figure skaters were to market than gymnasts. Nancy Kerrigan and Shannon Miller both had the same agent for a time, but Nancy got a lot more sponsors because she was so "beautiful and feminine" while Shannon looked too young. Ryan points out that "women can't relate to a girl who's four-foot-seven and weighs seventy pounds".

I personally don't get as involved in gymnastics because the athlete's careers are so short, as some people have mentioned. I can't really become particularly attached to anyone because they're rarely on the elite scene for more than one Olympiad. I never have any favourites I can cheer for or follow the career of. During the Salt Lake City Olympics, non-skating fans kept asking me why Oksana Baiul and Kurt Browning weren't competing. Those people would have one hell of a time following womens' gymnastics.

Also, many people on this board discovered figure skating through the Harding-Kerrigan scandal. I started watching in 1994 myself because of that. I didn't know much about skating at all before that, and when I watched the 1994 Olympics I realized what an enjoyable sport it was to watch. Gymnastics hasn't drawn that kind of attention. Perhaps it will become more popular in North America if the American team is as successful in Athens as some people are predicting they will be.

[danibellerika]

You know, I'm one of the people think they might be successful in Athens as well b/c of how they were looking at nationals. Of course you never know until it happens though.

[Trillian]

Originally posted by Alexa
It could be also that it is simpler to watch a figure skater do a short and long program than it is to follow a gymnast through all of their rotations.

That's one thing I'll never understand--the appeal of live gymnastics. I understand that having four things going on at once is necessary for time reasons, but I can't get imagine enjoying a sporting event where I had to miss watching something I wanted to see because I was watching something else I wanted to see. I would guess this contributes to lack of ticket sales for gymnastics. It's too bad there's so little TV coverage because I'd much rather watch the edited version of this particular sport (though of course I'd be happy to see more performances than we usually do).

Btw, I think lack of TV coverage is a result of the lack of popularity, not a cause. If the ratings were good, they'd show us more of it.

The marketability of the athletes is probably a huge, huge factor. Even though the physical aspect of things isn't so much of an issue these days (most of them aren't 4-8 and 70 lbs. anymore), there's the familiarity problem. You can't market an athlete unless they public knows who they are, and gymnasts usually don't have enough longevity for the public to get to know who they are. (Though at this point I think someone's missed the boat with Tasha Schwikert.) For that matter, most skaters aren't terribly marketable either for the same reason. There are a lot of flash in the pan type of stars in this sport that those outside won't recognize. But there are the few Kwans, Yamaguchis, Hamiltons, etc., and I can't think of any (American) gymnasts who have had high level elite or professional careers spanning more than a decade.

[flippet]

Another thing might be the difficulty in gymnastics in figuring out 'who won.' You can have all sorts of medalists in gymnastics, for each apparatus and an all-around, and I don't even know what else. In skating, there's one winner for each discipline, and the skaters don't usually do more than one. Even 'winning' the short versus the long doesn't really count. Skating's much easier to figure out that way.

[Inside Edge]

One thing that sets figure skating apart from other sports is that you can enjoy the same performance over and over again. Just like listening to a favorite song. Many on this board tape various programs & watch them again & again. I think that artistry is the reason why. Gymnastics could have artistry but it doesn't. The same moves could be done is a more artistic less robotic way. This is especially true for the floor exercise and balance beam. It has often been said that in figure skating it takes more talent to make a jump look polished and refined. Wouldn't this be true in gymnastics as well?

[Lynn226]

Until a few years ago, I followed gymnastics as closely as I follow figure skating. Unfortunately, our teams did not do as well as expected in Sydney. And I think that this has caused a decline in the public's interest in the sport. Prior to that, it seemed that gymnastics was on all the time. There were even "fluff events" and tours. I used to follow all of the competitions and I wish that something other than Nationals and Worlds were on TV.

[babyballerina]

Originally posted by Trillian
That's one thing I'll never understand--the appeal of live gymnastics. I understand that having four things going on at once is necessary for time reasons, but I can't get imagine enjoying a sporting event where I had to miss watching something I wanted to see because I was watching something else I wanted to see. I would guess this contributes to lack of ticket sales for gymnastics. It's too bad there's so little TV coverage because I'd much rather watch the edited version of this particular sport (though of course I'd be happy to see more performances than we usually do).



This is exactly my experience of the one live gymnastics event I have attended. (Sydney Olympics ladies). Even though there was a big screen in the middle, it was impossible to watch four or more events at the same time. I would suddenly hear clapping from the other end of the stadium, but by the time I looked up, I would have missed the moment. So in the end I just concentrated on the beam as that was the apparatus closest to me. (I was in the back row though!)

[loveskating]

Figure skating is very popular among Americans.

As far as I know, our elite was the first in the world to MASS produce cheap figure skates and to encourage the "masses" to skate and get outdoors for their health. While all Americans might not know the facts, nevertheless, the culture contains such things.

Also, most people I talk to who are casual fans say that figure skating is simply beautiful, and at its best, it is.

[Rogue]

Originally posted by loveskating
Figure skating is very popular among Americans.

As far as I know, our elite was the first in the world to MASS produce cheap figure skates and to encourage the "masses" to skate and get outdoors for their health. While all Americans might not know the facts, nevertheless, the culture contains such things.

Also, most people I talk to who are casual fans say that figure skating is simply beautiful, and at its best, it is.

That may be part of it. It's a lot easier for the average joe to say let's go ice skating, then to say let's go do a bar routine.

[Kemy]

Originally posted by Inside Edge
Gymnastics could have artistry but it doesn't. The same moves could be done is a more artistic less robotic way. This is especially true for the floor exercise and balance beam. It has often been said that in figure skating it takes more talent to make a jump look polished and refined. Wouldn't this be true in gymnastics as well?

I think it takes a lot of effort to make those long tumbling passes. You would have to be EXTREMELY talented not to need the long pause for the pass in order to prepare for the tumbling. Not counting the long pauses before tumbling passes, I've seen some really good dancers on the floor. The beam, on the other hand, utilizes a lot of concentration just to stay centered and balanced.

[Synchroprincess]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Trillian
[B]That's one thing I'll never understand--the appeal of live gymnastics. I understand that having four things going on at once is necessary for time reasons, but I can't get imagine enjoying a sporting event where I had to miss watching something I wanted to see because I was watching something else I wanted to see.



I do gymnastics @ my high school to keep in shape for skating and let me tell you that goin to live gymnastics meets are the most BORING things ever! Ok its fun when you do it, and when your good friends do it, but to sit around for 2 hours and mabye compete for 5 minutes, its not worth it!

[Harris!here!]

Aside from training, I teach both skating and gymnastics in fact. And I strongly beleave that gymnist are not a tenth the artist skaters are. Slightly, and I do mean ever so slightly more athletic than us. But we far surpass them in the arts!




Jon~

[KingBob]

Ever seen Terin Humphrey compete? Lindsey Vanden Eykel?? any of the girls from the club in Texas, WOGA, are amazing artists. They manage to do art on even the bars. Art comes in all forms.

Unfortunately, the new code of points for gymn has tried to completely rape all artistry out of the sport, or at least it's trying. But there are still athletes who manage to perform beautiful gymnastics that induce "gymgasms"

You try and be artistic while attempting to complete four tumbling passes, three jump combinations, a bunch of leaps and turns... most skaters struggle with artistry in even the Paso where the artistry is practically HANDED to you!

I hate hearing people say gymnasts aren't artistic... it's not the same as skating, you have to try a little harder to appreciate the art of gymn.

[yogurtslinger]

Talking about art on the floor, Boginskaya (?), I felt was an amazingly emotional dancer on the floor. I also loved her music.... can't remember the name of that piece she did her last exhibition to though (can anyone help me out?)

[Spark]

Originally posted by yogurtslinger
Talking about art on the floor, Boginskaya (?), I felt was an amazingly emotional dancer on the floor. I also loved her music.... can't remember the name of that piece she did her last exhibition to though (can anyone help me out?)

Do you remember the name of the event? Was it an exhibition?

[Spider68]

Good job ladies in the face of adversity. What an achievement, and what a great boost to your chances next summer! :D

[Dave Amorde]

Trillian's comments make sense, but there are many sports that have this "problem". Golf comes to mind; many forms of auto racing as well.
The longevity concern is just as applicable in skating, if not more so. Yes, some individuals do manage to compete in multiple Olympics, but they are the exception, not the rule.

As someone who used to love gymnastics, but now only follows closely in Olympic years, I observe the following:

1 - While it is possible to follow an athlete over the course of their entire career, it is more difficult than in skating.

2 - The scoring is completely incomprehensible. What the hell does that 9.275 really mean? What were they penalized for? I understand skating (or at least, I did before CoP), but I have yet to gain an understanding of the details of gymnastic judging.

3 - While some of the apparatus are interesting to watch, others are either too boring or too dangerous for me to sit and enjoy. I have a great admiration for the ladies on the balance beam, but that apparatus scares the bejesus out of me - I can't stand to watch it!
I like vaulting, parallel bars (both even and uneven), rings, pommel horse. I think that music and all "dance" moves should be dropped from floor, because it is just a sham anyway. Let them do their tumbling passes and be done with it. Tumbling is by far my favorite part of gymnastics.

[SkateGuard]

Two other things....
1. Ratings. People watch the Winter Olympics for ladies figure skating. (There's nothing else on, and unless you live in the sun belt, not much else to do in February.) Every four years, the ladies' long is one of the top ten-highest rated shows on television for the year. Since ratings are good, ABC shows us Nationals, Worlds, the Grand Prix...AFAIK, gymnastics don't get as high ratings during the Olympics (I believe the second week, with track and basketball have higher ratings than the first.)so we don't get the same amount of coverage. Add in the fact NBC has the gymn coverage of Nationals...

2. Pairs and dance. There are a lot of fans who don't necessarily follow ladies' singles, but will watch them. I'm a fan of skating because of Torvill/Dean and Gordeeva/Grinkov, not Brian Boitano or Kristi Yamaguchi. The idea of a man and woman competing together in an athletic event intrigues me. Plus, there's more coverage (and more variety) when the networks decide to cover all four disciplines of skating.

I know these are minor points, but just other thoughts...

Erin
(who is hoping someone broadcasts gymn Worlds this weekend!)

[Matryeshka]

I don't know why people continually feel the need to compare skating and gymnastics (I'm assuming most of y'all are talking about artistic rather than rhythmic). They're really not similar at all, except the competitors in the ladies' events tend to be young and tiny.

Maybe rhythmic gymnastics can be compared to figure skating--both combine artistry, athleticism, and spend a lot of time on choreography, esp. in regards to moving with the music. (FX are OK, but the gymnast rarely goes in time with the music.) I wish the networks would show more of that, but I don't think they will until the US has a highly-ranked team.

[bandit]

I'm not sure how much lack of artistry has to do with gymnastics being less popular. I think rhythmic gymnastics is artistic, but it gets less coverage than regular gymnastics even.

I agree with those who have said that you need recognizable athletes to promote the sport. It's the same in any sport. If you have exciting athletes with personality or great skill or you have a good team, the stands are full. If you don't know the athletes or the team is doing poorly, the stands are empty. I mean, I used to love watching men's tennis when Jimmy Connors and John McEnroe were playing, but after they retired I got bored. There's no one really dominating the sport the way they did, a lot of the players are boring, and half the time I don't even know the ones who make it to the finals, so why watch.

Another problem with the popularity of gymnastics, I think, is the lack of rivalries. Good rivalries always do wonders for a sport's popularity: think Connors vs. McEnroe vs. Borg, the Lakers vs. the Celtics, the Battle of The Brians in figure skating, etc.. Gymnastics rarely has such ongoing rivalries since the athletes have such short careers and there's generally a lack of consistency on each apparatus. I mean, you take a little hop on a landing or something and you're down in tenth place.

[loveskating]

"I wish the networks would show more of that, but I don't think they will until the US has a highly-ranked team."

True...in fact, while the rest of the world plays soccer, we haven't participated until recently. Which brings up a question...what is the history of gymnastics here in America?

I'm thinking of say, as compared to China, where "gymnastics" was not exactly a sport, but was part and parcel of the culture, a necessary component both in Peking Opera and other Chinese Opera forms, and also there is a long history of traveling shows with mainly gymnastic/circus type art. I saw the Shenyang Troupe in China (at Fushun) and when I asked them how in the world they did all those things (like twirling plates while aloft) they just said there was a long history of same in their culture.

Also, a little related factoid about how sports is affected by geopolitics...in a book called "Paul Revere and the World He Lived In" by Ester Forbes (out of print, but available in big libraries) she implies that the reason we invented baseball here was because of the British Blockade which would not allow ANYONE to trade with us who had to cross the Atlantic to do so...she points out that we could not EVEN buy (and did not manufacture) "Cricket" gear, and she points out that the only nation we could trade with without risking being sunk by British cannon at the time was China...via the Pacific Ocean, not the Atlantic.

[babyballerina]

You think gymnastics is unpopular in the US??!!! Britain just won their first ever medal at Gymnastics worlds and guess how much coverage it got? Nothing at all! I haven't seen one mention on TV or in any newspaper. It's not on the BBC site either. (I sent them an e-mail to complain. I complain about their skating coverage at least 5 tmes a year too!) Skating is a minority sport here, but I think gymnastics must be totally beneath the radar!

If anyone saw Beth Tweedle on the uneven bars, reports appreciated.

Enjoy your gymnastics on TV. At least you get to see it.