Kerry Leitch sells Champions Training Centre

[jcspkbfan]

Kevin Wheeler is one of the new Champions Training Centre owners:

http://www.cambridge-reporter.com/sports/sports_030630172029.html

I didn't know Kevin Wheeler and Michelle McDonald were married. :)

[jp1andOnly]

About time he did. Even though he was high profile he did a lot of not so good things. Kevin is a great person...its in good hands

[tdnuva]

As being not Canadian I'm a bit confused by the article cause it mentions too many towns for me. :lol:

Where exactly is the "Champions training centre"?

[Francis71]

The Centre in the article is located in Cambridge, Ontario. Cambridge is about one hour west of Toronto. (a number of years ago three smaller communities - Preston, Galt and Hespler merged to create one bigger community now known as Cambridge - the locals still tend to refer to the areas as Preston, Galt or Hespler but technically the address is called Cambridge)

Does anyone know how big their pair program is? If I recall Bryce Davidson has left to skate in Quebec. The only other pair I can think of training there now is Collier and Richardson (3rd) at junior pairs. I note they have a NAC assignment so I assume they are still together.

This is great news for this training centre - while some of the traditions of the Leitch era are likely worth keeping - I am sure that the "Wheeler group" will change those that are not quite as worthwhile. If anyone has read the the Brasseur/Eisler book - Lloyd talks about the club quite a bit in it.

[Bailey]

Yes, there are lots of references in the book, but not many details. For those who haven't read the book, Lloyd talks about the dedication required to complete the extreme physical training, some physical abuse (hitting the skaters), and other stuff (Mr. Leitch not talking to Lloyd when he left to skate with Isabelle in Quebec, and telling the other skaters not to talk with him at nationals). Lloyd is especially concerned that Mr. Leitch's methods were especially hard for the girls. I've heard worse stories from former skaters and friends and felt Lloyd was quite respectful in the book. What bothered me most about the book was how Lloyd credited his success in the sport to Mr. Leitch's discipline. He never says it in so many words, but you sense that though he disagrees with some of the methods, he felt that it was necessary to push him to succeed. No doubt, he has produced some champions through the years, but I really don't agree with this kind of thinking.

[tdnuva]

Originally posted by Francis71
The Centre in the article is located in Cambridge, Ontario. Cambridge is about one hour west of Toronto.

Thanks. I just was a bit confused when the article talked about Preston...

[blades]

8-)

kerry is infameous for constantly telling the girls that they are too fat...many have left skating with eating disorders thanks to him...

he's a very charming and successful coach...but ya gotta wonder about the cost in personal lives...

[land64shark]

Originally posted by blades
8-)

kerry is infameous for constantly telling the girls that they are too fat...many have left skating with eating disorders thanks to him...



Not even 2 weeks ago, a skater of Leitch's told me that Leitch had just told her that she may be kicked off of the competitive "team" because she weighs too much. (The girl is NOT heavy, she's just not a toothpick.) She hoped he was just in "one of his moods". He does regular public weigh-ins.

I don't want to name names, but he has this one young girl that concerns me. She looks so anorexically thin that I find it completely distracting from her skating. All I can think when I see her skate is that the least they could do is put some sleaves on the child and COVER IT UP! She's a terrific little jumper, but I think it's impossible for her to have any kind of pretty or pleasing positions because she's just got boney sticks to work with. I'm even told that the child's hair is or has been missing in clumps.

[pinkjellybean]

Originally posted by jp1andOnly
About time he did. Even though he was high profile he did a lot of not so good things. Kevin is a great person...its in good hands

I totaly agree... so so so so glad he's "gone"

[Phuket]

Originally posted by land64shark

I don't want to name names, but he has this one young girl that concerns me. She looks so anorexically thin that I find it completely distracting from her skating. All I can think when I see her skate is that the least they could do is put some sleaves on the child and COVER IT UP! She's a terrific little jumper, but I think it's impossible for her to have any kind of pretty or pleasing positions because she's just got boney sticks to work with. I'm even told that the child's hair is or has been missing in clumps.

This sort of thing makes me sick. If it's true the child is losing her hair, there is a good chance she is malnourished. Someone should call child welfare.

[adrianchew]

My main concern is that the US appears to be stuck with yet another Canadian coming to the US to coach that seems to have rather questionable training ethics and concern for the welfare of the skaters under their tutelage. Skate Canada's more stringent control of coaching standards seems to send some of the less desirable ones south, looking for employment.

I don't recall exactly, but wasn't there more reasons for his moving to the US, perhaps something to do Skate Canada having a word with him about his coaching?

[PAskate]

Hasn't he already been doing some coaching in the US? I seem to remember hearing a couple of years ago that he was coaching on a regular basis at a center in Florida.

[Francis71]

I believe that there was a court case. He had alledgedly hit a skater and charges were laid. I remember reading an article about it on one of these boards and feeling quite sick about the whole thing. I don't remember if he was convicted or not but I believe the incident involved the young man swearing at his pair partner. I believe that the intent was to teach this young man respect. This article says that the move was related to semi-retirement so the court case may not have had anything to do with the move to the USA.

Just found an article with a reference to the event I am not good at posting links so hope this works.

http://www.ifsmagazine.com/feature29.html

[synchro4evr]

I started skating at the Preston club when I was 3 years old. Kerry Leitch was at the helm at that time. I had heard throughout the years many horror stories. In particular about girls and eating disorders including his own step-daughter Christine Hough. I have seen and heard with my own eyes how he can berate someone. When I read what Lloyd Eisler had to say in his book I could relate totally. I know many girls who left the club either being asked to leave or just had enough and left. The rules were very very strict at this club. I have to say though that the coach I had was an incredible lady and I owe her alot for my love of skating and the skills I developed. This was a club where pairs was the be all and end all. As we know, sometimes romantic relationships develop between pairs outside the rink. That was a big no no and was hidden from the coaching staff.
I guess it takes all kinds and fortunately, I left the club and that atmoshere behind.

[iceskatingannie]

I have heard of him doing some pretty mean things and things that are totally undescribable and unbelievable. I think that he his totally unethical and I cant believe that parents let their kids skate there. I would never let my daughter skate there. Although, I have heard of several people leaving there so I guess that that is good.

[rudi]

I don't want to name names, but he has this one young girl that concerns me. She looks so anorexically thin that I find it completely distracting from her skating. All I can think when I see her skate is that the least they could do is put some sleaves on the child and COVER IT UP! She's a terrific little jumper, but I think it's impossible for her to have any kind of pretty or pleasing positions because she's just got boney sticks to work with. I'm even told that the child's hair is or has been missing in clumps.

This saddens me, if true.
Brings back memories of when I competed (in a different sport also known for girls having eating disorders!) and my coach came down hard on me about my weight (5'4' and 105 lbs. at 16 years old)...All I wanted to do was please my coach and be at the top of my game, so I tried so hard to lose the weight...Luckily my Mom had more sense than my coach did, and after much effort, convinced me that I was not overweight.

[pinkjellybean]

I read the title of this topic and just wanted to post from pure joy. I already knew this was happening but re-reading it here makes me so happy.

Now I can drive by and go to that rink without quite so many shudders. While he hasn't been coaching there in a while it will be nice that Kevin is the official owner. I feel like now I won't regret (as much) that my banners are there and not at my home club.

Yipeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[IceAngel2007]

that really sux about Kerry telling girls that they are fat when they aren't. I skate where he skates, and he seems nice around me, so I've never really had any reason to dislike him, but thats not acceptable to tell girls that! eSPECIALLY ONES THAT TRAIN EVERY DAY! :evil: it costs way to much to have your coach tell you that you are too fat.

[celtic]

Mr. Leitch is in fact in the U.S. He manages the Igloo rink in Ellenton, FL. where he coaches some prominent pair teams. For more details, please read the news thread "Permanently Banned Coach. . .", the subject of which is Gordie McKellen. McKellen is permanently banned from the USFSA and his good buddy Leitch hired him as a celebrity coach for the Igloo summer camps. Leitch also had something to do with McKellen becoming a judge at the Ice Wars competitions.

What is with the parents of these pairs skaters, with Leitch's background rather public knowledge?

[Skatewind]

Sadly, some parents become opportunists blinded by stars in their eyes when it comes to skating. They are willing to sacrifice the well being of their own child, & all children, if they believe a coach will help their skater climb the ladder of success. And will do whatever it takes for their skater to "win at all costs", even though the skaters will never end up among the winning elite. Parents with these characteristics are easily influenced by personable coaches who will always tell them what they want to hear.

[IceAngel2007]

Mr. Leitch is in fact in the U.S. He manages the Igloo rink in Ellenton, FL. where he coaches some prominent pair teams. For more details, please read the news thread "Permanently Banned Coach. . .", the subject of which is Gordie McKellen. McKellen is permanently banned from the USFSA and his good buddy Leitch hired him as a celebrity coach for the Igloo summer camps. Leitch also had something to do with McKellen becoming a judge at the Ice Wars competitions.

What is with the parents of these pairs skaters, with Leitch's background rather public knowledge?

I know he is in the US I know he manages JP Igloo. I skate there for goodness sake. lol. I know the pairs teams. Amanda Evora and Mark Ladwig are a great pairs skating team! and Shantell Jordan and Jeremy Barrett Are great also!

[IceAngel2007]

am i like the youngest in this forum?

[oldtimersk8s]

Have you ever seen cult like control? THAT IS WHAT IT IS LIKE. And if you don't have access to another rink like in Ellenton area, you try to get along and do what leitch says, I think what gets parents upset, is that you can press a button without even knowing it. And then there is an attack by the master like I've never seen before. Some attacks are just to gain control back(like he ever lost the control)
Is J.P. Igloo up for sale? I heard it was. Maybe good changes will happen where he is at now too. :roll:

[IceAngel2007]

yah its for sale.

[celtic]

I know he is in the US I know he manages JP Igloo. I skate there for goodness sake. lol. I know the pairs teams. Amanda Evora and Mark Ladwig are a great pairs skating team! and Shantell Jordan and Jeremy Barrett Are great also!

I wasn't replying to your posts, but to earlier ones asking if he was in the US? If you know these pairs and where he skates, I am still wondering if there are no other good coaches for these skaters? As for the senior team, they both had to relocate to train with him. I thought we were addressing Leitch's reputation, that is what I was responding to.

[Loopy6]

Jeez, you know, some of you people make me laugh! So how many of you have ACTUALLY seen this supposed anorexic girl who has her hair falling out? Because I can tell you right now that I know exactly who you are talking about and she is NOT anorexic!! She has beautiful hair and she eats like a grown man. If you did all of the exercise that she does you would be thin too. That young girl is so dedicated she skates almost 6 sessions a day, of her own accord! So, unless you know for sure about incidents at Mr.Leitch's school then you should not spread rumors like that one.

[Skatewind]

Touched a nerve, huh? Problem is, it's about more than only one girl, & Kerry Leitch has run more than one school.

[oldtimersk8s]

Of course there are other coaches. If you have ever been on the Leitch team you will understand this...it is exhilarating to be coached by him,YOU WILL IMPROVE, BUT you don't find out how brutal, or ruthless he can be, or do you see the true colorful (is black a color)? personality until you have moved in and paid for you ice, usually in full. He is a different person once you have moved into town (most coaches are nicer, he gets colder) and if you have ever moved your child to skate it is exhausting and costly, and also time consuming. :frus:

[sawitall]

<snip> She has beautiful hair and she eats like a grown man. If you did all of the exercise that she does you would be thin too. <snip>

Grown men live on ricecakes? Gee, I didn't know that! I also saw the hair thing myself last year when she was up here competing - and how about her teeth? Man, that was really scary. Is it really true that she's never been to Disneyworld for even one day because it would take time away from her six-sessions-a-day-training?

A kid can be destroyed *only* if the parent allows it to happen - ultimately that's where the responsibility lies, eh? Shame, shame, shame.

I figure it will be another five years before the made-for-TV movie comes out about this.

Cheers!

[oldtimersk8s]

I am not a fan of this girls coach, your concern is admirable I'm sure, I can tell you some stories to really turn a head, but I see this skater myself everyday. I skate as an adult in the morning, come back in the afternoon for hockey, and I am here to tell you that she had an exhema skin problem from the time she was an infant. I believe it is under control now. One of my daughter's is 30 and she had one we faught it for many years with cortizone creams. So did my grandmother! Yes,there are so many cases of anorexia in gymnastics, skating, ballet, cheerleading, modeling, etc. There may be a contoversial issue going on past and present about the coach. about anorexia, and more.
But what you saw was not related to bad eating, health, and being denied, and you are very much under the wrong impression of this little skater. And that is too bad. This child does eat just fine. Please feel confident of that. No need for inspections. Save them for the abused kids that really need help in this town who can't afford a can of beans. She has gone to Disney World & Busch Gardens, actually has a season's pass, and has gone many times These passes are good for several parks down here. She is a daredevil and loves the rollarcoasters. The skating friends that go with can vouch for that. I hear the kids talk and laugh about their fun times in the lobby! And loves to shop, look for sales on designer purses,etc. at the International mall regularlly(yes at her age). This skater deserves everything good that comes her way. I believe she would be a champion with even the most unqualified of coaches.
Her coaches are making her one of the best pair skaters in the world. I really believe that. Injury and training schedules that deny fun times once in a while can happen to even the most recreational of skaters. Can it not?? When growth comes her way, and puberty maybe then you will see a weight gain and height. She will hit puberty...You will always see blonde pulled back perfect hair, she loves perfect, sprayed hair at all times. Oh yes, her dad is very blonde.
There may be issues on this coach, but you could try to leave this mom and this skater out of this mess. I see the mom there every day when I skate, she is there all day long to watch her daughter. I have talked to the mom on several occasions, she is very nice and always looking out for her daughter. So there is no need to worry. You are barking up the wrong tree with this one.
You can trust that if the mother thinks something is wrong her dad and mom will move on. My post is not rumour or non factual this should make you rest easy that she is O.K. and not have to worry about this little girl. I'm sure her mom thanks you for your concern. Please let's drop this and talk nicely about this fabulous athlete here. Food for thought... without sour apples...
Did you know she can land a clean Triple Lutz? And hardly falls on it ever???

[celtic]

If the girl in question is who I think you are talking about, she is a little doll! Her expression always looks pleasant and happy. I heard a long time ago that if you are one of the best skaters in the rink, people will talk about you and your parents. Is that what we might have here?

Good for Oldtimersk8s to come to the defense with actual facts from up close, and not feeding hurtful rumors.

Question about another pairs skater who skated out of Igloo with the same coach: Is Amanda Evora still skating there? What a nice girl and with a nice, supportive family!

[WeBeEducated]

I think that it is obvious that parents there are willing to overlook the questionable behavior of Leitch and they also seem willing to overlook the recent unethical behavior of the coach Leitch is bringing in for the summer(who was banned from USFSA competitions/membership).And that does indicate that these parents are being motivated first and formost by a desire to WIN!
At any cost.
No matter how it effects their child.
So these parents should not be surprised when that attitude causes others to look upon these parents critically.

As for the pair skater I know she is enormously talented, is the perfect body type for pair skating, is highly self motivated, and has gone from basically preliminary skater to a highly accomplished pair champ with triples in less than 5 years.
I knew her in 1999 and she was just another little girl at the rink with nothing special. I thought she was cute, but I saw no skating ability at that time. She changed to Leitch and Bam! he made her into a champion. That doesnt mean though that the parents there should accept and tolerate all forms of his moods and methods.
They seem willing to do so .

[celtic]

Well, a lot of the parents will be the rightful focus of questions if they support and take from this banned coach. How many parents, including club officers, are willing to take from some creep like McKellen who violated a professional code of conduct and ethics, not once, but repeatedly, because they want their kids to win win win?!

We'll see how the southwest florida fsc responds! Betcha' they support McKellen, and if they do, they should be prepared for the negative comments and possible publicity generated from that support! Winning at all costs, huh?

[oldtimersk8s]

I will say again it is very hard here to drive 45 minutes to 21/2 hours to another rink for ice and lessons. If you quit from that coach you are banned from the rink on most cases. You either quit or skate else where. I don't know about you but I don't know many parents that can just up and move and pro hop every time there are problems. Now most of his kids didn't even make it to final round this year. WeBe.....When you are not willing to travel, move, or fly around the country, because you lost or are being mis-treated....You stay, because you don't want to uproot, switch schools, sell rising properties, sell or store furniture, leave family members behind, start new friendships, new careers, jobs, find new housing, all that goes with the cost of winning..... Now does that sound like all of these parents are concerned about is winning?? There have been a few that have left because they came with the dilutions of winning... but many lived here first and for all of the above just have to stay.
How about offering another famous coach, to that crowd, who can move down.... get into the rink(that's the trick).... and take over his team???

[celtic]

I will say again it is very hard here to drive 45 minutes to 21/2 hours to another rink for ice and lessons. If you quit from that coach you are banned from the rink on most cases. You either quit or skate else where. I don't know about you but I don't know many parents that can just up and move and pro hop every time there are problems. Now most of his kids didn't even make it to final round this year. WeBe.....When you are not willing to travel, move, or fly around the country, because you lost or are being mis-treated....You stay, because you don't want to uproot, switch schools, sell rising properties, sell or store furniture, leave family members behind, start new friendships, new careers, jobs, find new housing, all that goes with the cost of winning..... Now does that sound like all of these parents are concerned about is winning?? There have been a few that have left because they came with the dilutions of winning... but many lived here first and for all of the above just have to stay.
How about offering another famous coach, to that crowd, who can move down.... get into the rink(that's the trick).... and take over his team???

You bring up some good points that I had not considered. We in larger metro areas are used to having several rinks around, and maybe make a BIG move just once. That is not always possible.

Hopefully other good coaches will come to that rink, but does KL control who is hired there? Would he be willing to hire big name coaches if they wanted to move? I just hope he doesn't hire his "friends" and expect his students to take from said friends. Is there a chance KL will move?

[oldtimersk8s]

I have a friend who lives up in Minn. She skates at 4 rinks all within 1/2 hour of her house. Each rink has it's own head coach and it's own little world. It is not like that her in FL. Is it unethical to ban kids from skating at the rink if they decide to fly out for lessons elsewhere? I went on the internet. did you know it would cost over $300.00 each time to fly to Colorado, or over $200. to fly to Delaware if these kids wanted a weekend worth of lessons....Let's see, they can quit because KL is a monster and why not fly out every weekend and let's see.... pay for flights, housing, ice, rental car.... oh yes which one won the LOTTO..aand then drive all over FL.finding icetime in and around school hours...Webe are you getting the picture yet? Please don't be so mean yourself with your attitude towards these hard working sacrifising parents and wonderful athletes.(they are athletes).

There are a those that know and have tried to get out but the cost and limited time has prevailed. They have backed down and conformed. Hoping for the best. Very sad, Have compassion to those people, believe me a few of them are very smart and knowledgeable within the skating world!

Yes KL hires everyone, and only hires his own. As a matter of fact he got rid of a couple of coaches he brought in, all of past Olympic caliber. You don't look the wrong way when it comes to KL.
So as you can see some people as I said before, just try to get along. Cult behavior prevails because there isn't alot one can do and when the controller knows it, they can often show worse controlling behavior. So if that little girl can be a winner under this pressure more power to her. Have compassion to the ones that are loosing and stuck. They are all really nice average hard working people with nowhere to go.

[Skatewind]

I can't buy into the idea that it's acceptable to put children, my own or others, in harm's way by subjecting them to child abusers. If the rink management or a club supports the banned for life "guest" coaches like McKellen & plans to look the other way, it is unfortunate that the parents will not get together collectively & do something about it. It is horribly inappropriate for any parent, skater, coach, club member, or rink personnel to knowingly watch & wait when some form of abuse could happen again to another young student, no matter what your child's goals in skating may be.

[celtic]

I can't buy into the idea that it's acceptable to put children, my own or others, in harm's way by subjecting them to child abusers. If the rink management or a club supports the banned for life "guest" coaches like McKellen & plans to look the other way, it is unfortunate that the parents will not get together collectively & do something about it. It is horribly inappropriate for any parent, skater, coach, club member, or rink personnel to knowingly watch & wait when some form of abuse could happen again to another young student, no matter what your child's goals in skating may be.

I wholehearedly agree! The Club President at Ellenton knows about this and surely if she wanted she could organize the club leadership to do something and take on KL. I bet that doesn't happen, though. It is a good time for them to take a stand. If something does happen, will that club act like the Dallas club and pretend ignorance? They could be sued or be put on probation, just for starters. Is it worth taking that chance? Or is it worth backing a banned coach morally? We'll see.

[celtic]

I would like to add to my most recent post that it can be VERY DIFFICULT to buck the leadership at a rink and/or club. I agree with Skatewind, but I do see the difficulty in taking a stance if others won't stand with you. One individual can be labeled a troublemaker if others are satisfied with the status quo and aren't willing to do anything. I can just hear the comments from some overly ambitious parents: "the coach can help my son/daughter", "he did nothing illegal", "it's none of my business", and on and on. Don't they see the abuse, the predatory behaviour, the violation of coaching ethics, the sick interest in girls young enough to be his children???

I bet the banned coach came to that camp last year and cried! That is one of his standard tricks to get sympathy and seem sincere. The tears just flow.

[Skatewind]

When dealing with rink & club management, liability is often a big factor. The basic coaching insurance policies only offer limited liability for individuals when it comes to sexual & child abuse. Rinks & clubs could be held negligent for knowingly sponsoring these banned coaches in the event of another incident & they have assets to pursue that the coach does not.

Under the USFSA policy, it also almost seems like parents who are aware of a banned coaching situation due to child or sexual abuse should feel compelled to report a concern about it to the club & rink so organizations cannot pretend they don't know about it. Otherwise, if something were to happen, the victim could probably pursue the matter against all parties who neglected to report it, including parents & skaters via the club & USFSA.

[oldtimersk8s]

Skatewind, now you have a good point about the insurance issue. And something that KL may think about if the club officers have the ability to face him with it.. I have never seen a person so penny pinching in my life before. Don't get me wrong, he does it in a good way for the rink. Lowering lights, keeping count of plastic spoons, and plastic coffee cup tops, reductions here and there, compressor shut offs during the night all these things and more have reduced the costs to a pending financial disaster at that huge facility. (Why doesn't he cater to parents who threaten to leave, or do leave with his 'leave if you don't like it' attitude which surely looses more money $$$ over a years time than paper cups). He is always concerned about insurance.. I have heard him in the lobby over his radio bellowing out about insurance this and that when I have been putting on my skates! Oh My he can be loud! Maybe he will think about the law suit issue having him in. Or... kl can watch him like a hawk!!!!

[oldtimersk8s]

Sitting reflecting upon all of this I have pondered, about what has been said in the rink here. I wonder if this whole mess could straighten itself out by bringing in a non threatening guest coach, for instance the Spin Doctor? What is her real name from I believe Delaware? I have heard him complain about spins.

[blades]

8-)

perhaps a little info "leaked" to the local press about his training practices and his hiring a banned coach...nothing like bad press to help in such situations...

the corporate entity that owns the igloo wouldn't much like getting such attention i'm sure...

[Skatewind]

Sitting reflecting upon all of this I have pondered, about what has been said in the rink here. I wonder if this whole mess could straighten itself out by bringing in a non threatening guest coach, for instance the Spin Doctor? What is her real name from I believe Delaware? I have heard him complain about spins.
I think you probably mean Bobbie Shire who teaches through Chesapeake Skating School in MD & does workshops.

[WeBeEducated]

I think you probably mean Bobbie Shire who teaches through Chesapeake Skating School in MD & does workshops.the most famous spin doctor is Evelyn Kramer(or Cramer) from Colorado.

By the way, the Tampa rink is not far at all from the Bradenton rink. 1992 Olympic bronze medalist in singles coaches there, as well as former dance champions.
It is less than an hour away.
However, parents should be prepared to hear criticism from others who dont share their belief in "winning/skating/competing" at all costs.
If they choose to accept bellowing moods, hiring of banned coaches, etc., they are teaching their children that skating , at all levels, is worth it!

[celtic]

the most famous spin doctor is Evelyn Kramer(or Cramer) from Colorado.

By the way, the Tampa rink is not far at all from the Bradenton rink. 1992 Olympic bronze medalist in singles coaches there, as well as former dance champions.
It is less than an hour away.
However, parents should be prepared to hear criticism from others who dont share their belief in "winning/skating/competing" at all costs.
If they choose to accept bellowing moods, hiring of banned coaches, etc., they are teaching their children that skating , at all levels, is worth it!

The Igloo is located in Ellenton, FL, I think. I'm not sure how far away that is from Bradenton. Even an hour's drive can be a difficult drive when trying to accommodate school schedules and parents' work schedules.

Having another rink close by is helpful and losing skaters can financially impact a coach and/or rink, but it seems there are always skaters and parents to fill the void.

[Skatewind]

What does "Affiliated with the University of Delaware Skating School" mean? How exactly are they affiliated?

http://www.jpigloo.com/skatingschool.htm

You'd think the University of Delaware would object to an affiliation with a coach with Gordon McKellen's history, but I guess they don't.

[Lmarletto]

What does "Affiliated with the University of Delaware Skating School" mean? How exactly are they affiliated?

http://www.jpigloo.com/skatingschool.htm

You'd think the University of Delaware would object to an affiliation with a coach with Gordon McKellen's history, but I guess they don't.

I've only heard Ron Ludington described as a highly ethical individual. I don't know what to think of the fact that he would participate in a camp with McKellen. You've got to wonder if sleaze isn't so pervasive in skating that even decent people can't steer completely clear of it.

[WeBeEducated]

I've only heard Ron Ludington described as a highly ethical individual. I don't know what to think of the fact that he would participate in a camp with McKellen. You've got to wonder if sleaze isn't so pervasive in skating that even decent people can't steer completely clear of it.

I am telling you, the old school network of coaches and judges in the USFSA is deeply entrenched in protecting their own.
The USFSA had to be brought screaming and crying into the 21st century regarding the rights of athletes.
I believe their fear of lawsuits against the USFSA is the only thing compelling them to implement their toothless "ban" of coaches guilty of grossly unethical behavior.
If they wanted to make the ban actually mean something they could insist that USFSA clubs, rinks, and athletes refrain from utilizing a banned coach.
Here is a coach, known for preying on minors for sexual gratification, being hailed as a "celbrity" coach in
florida, and being touted as affliated with "University of Delaware Skating School"
Nothing more than a symbolic slap on the wrist.

[what?meworry?]

What does "Affiliated with the University of Delaware Skating School" mean? How exactly are they affiliated?

http://www.jpigloo.com/skatingschool.htm

You'd think the University of Delaware would object to an affiliation with a coach with Gordon McKellen's history, but I guess they don't.

i know ron and karen, i don't understand why they would allow this! gordie mck. has had a whispered reputation following him wherever he moved.

my only suggestion, as i said before, is to communicate with the rink and/or club management to---on the record, meaning by documentable communication---the circumstances of the banned coach they have hired.

one does wonder why usfsa has not yet made available, on line, the names of the permanently banned coaches and the circumstances of the banning. tends to lend credibility to the "ol' boys/gals judges network" theory.

i guess i really shouldn't hassle usfsa, after all, usfsa has really come a long way in recognizing these issues and doing something about it. :bow:

[nycbumpkin]

I will say again it is very hard here to drive 45 minutes to 21/2 hours to another rink for ice and lessons. If you quit from that coach you are banned from the rink on most cases. You either quit or skate else where. I don't know about you but I don't know many parents that can just up and move and pro hop every time there are problems. Now most of his kids didn't even make it to final round this year. WeBe.....When you are not willing to travel, move, or fly around the country, because you lost or are being mis-treated....You stay, because you don't want to uproot, switch schools, sell rising properties, sell or store furniture, leave family members behind, start new friendships, new careers, jobs, find new housing, all that goes with the cost of winning..... Now does that sound like all of these parents are concerned about is winning?? There have been a few that have left because they came with the dilutions of winning... but many lived here first and for all of the above just have to stay.


NO, this is exactly the problem. They do NOT have to stay. There are always choices. There are always paths to choose. And everytime a "good" family decides to just close their eyes, shut their mouths, and take it -- they hurt every other skater and family who do try to do something about it. The few who are brave enough to step forward and try to make things better for everyone are left hanging in the wind, because of all those families who "just have to stay" and refuse to take a stand against wrong. Wrong is wrong. I am sick of hearing these kinds of excuses.

[SkateFan123]

i know ron and karen, i don't understand why they would allow this! gordie mck. has had a whispered reputation following him wherever he moved.


Just a suggestion, since you know Ron and Karen, why do you call and ask them? At least you would have the satisfation of knowing that you asked.

[SkateFan123]

The Igloo is located in Ellenton, FL, I think. I'm not sure how far away that is from Bradenton. Even an hour's drive can be a difficult drive when trying to accommodate school schedules and parents' work schedules.

Having another rink close by is helpful and losing skaters can financially impact a coach and/or rink, but it seems there are always skaters and parents to fill the void.
The distance between Ellenton and Bradenton is about 5 miles. It would not be a difficult drive if parents felt that's the what they should do.

[WeBeEducated]

NO, this is exactly the problem. They do NOT have to stay. There are always choices. There are always paths to choose. And everytime a "good" family decides to just close their eyes, shut their mouths, and take it -- they hurt every other skater and family who do try to do something about it. The few who are brave enough to step forward and try to make things better for everyone are left hanging in the wind, because of all those families who "just have to stay" and refuse to take a stand against wrong. Wrong is wrong. I am sick of hearing these kinds of excuses.
good post!
I agree, there are always choices and alternatives and each one has a cost, but so does staying in a situation and passively, silently accepting things you know are wrong.
There are at least 2 rinks within an hours drive of the Igloo rink. The rink in Oldsmar, Florida is home to the respected Tampa Bay FSC and they have coaches who competed in World and Olympic competitions. Orlando has great rinks and very good coaches too. There are choices that may entail some inconvenience, but certainly dont involve suffering.In the very least, why not speak up and say parents are not comfortable with inviting a coach who was banned from the USFSA due to his predatory, unethical behavior with young female skaters? Are parents that fearful or weak?

[oldtimersk8s]

I will venture to say fearful. Have you ever witnessed the "bellowing" that goes on? I agree there are other rinks. For me I am an adult skater it really doesn't matter. I think you need to understand there is a very good program at that rink. Sounds to me the off ice is better than at the Broadmoor. When KL is calm all is pretty normal for those kids and parents. I don't have an answer why nobody will ask him about Gordie. Maybe you should understand that somewhere around 19 skaters have left this year(fact), including a national Junior pair team. These kids have been replaced by who? Kids from the rinks you tell them to switch to! From the Oldsmar Rink Tampa Bay Skating Academy Tampa Bay fsc. And out of Orlando, What is wrong with those rinks that many kids have switched from that rink???

[WeBeEducated]

Several years ago the tampa rink had quite a few good skaters and teams, but it is true that many left when the Igloo rink was built .
Where did the Junior pair team relocate to?
As for the bellowing...no, I have not heard it, but I can imagine that I would find a way to organize parents and skaters(the paying customers!!!!) to assert themselves without the need to greatly offend KL.
He is YOUR employee. Never forget that. You are the boss.

[WeBeEducated]

I've only heard Ron Ludington described as a highly ethical individual. I don't know what to think of the fact that he would participate in a camp with McKellen. You've got to wonder if sleaze isn't so pervasive in skating that even decent people can't steer completely clear of it.

I am fairly certain that the Ludingtons have a financial stake in the Igloo rink.

[what?meworry?]

Just a suggestion, since you know Ron and Karen, why do you call and ask them? At least you would have the satisfation of knowing that you asked. this was discussed a while ago. i don't post specifics.

[celtic]

I have just been reading the posts of yesterday and today. First, thanks for the info on location of rinks in Florida. I didn't realize some of them were close enough commuting distance to have a choice.

Second, I would like to support the USFSA's efforts in the last few years about banning coaches who needed to be banned. I think kudos should go to heads of the Ethics and Grievance committees, and the immediate past President of USFSA. It was under the leadership of these people that action was finally taken! But USFSA cannot control who rinks hire. Often the rinks are owned by corporations or by groups mostly pushing hockey. As you know, figure skating and hockey are often like oil and water and don't mix. I DO wish that USFSA could extend a ban to forbidding banned coaches from coaching at camps that then have a "competition" or "show" at the end of the camps. Are those shows and competitions sanctioned by USFSA?

I have hopes that, since USFSA is aware of these recent threads, that they will eventuallly list the banned individuals somewhere on their website.

All the talk about standing up against management and to KL in particular: any word on what the resident club at Igloo is doing about this situation???

[dancedad]

Since the Club president of the South West Florida Skating Club is also listed on the JPIgloo website as the Director of Sales and Marketing for the rink, I would think that the club might not be willing to take a stand.

[SkateFan123]

this was discussed a while ago. i don't post specifics.
Then why post that you wonder if they know the situation????

[what?meworry?]

look up the word "rhetorical," _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _!

[flyingcameleon]

i don't want to be a part of this discussion

[Skatewind]

I have hopes that, since USFSA is aware of these recent threads, that they will eventuallly list the banned individuals somewhere on their website.
If USFSA is uncomfortable posting names on the main website, it seems like an acceptable compromise would be to have a form so the information can be requested by mail, or have a page in the members only section for individuals & club members to reference that lists all the grievances that have an outcome of disciplinary action against a member or club.

[Skatewind]

Just a suggestion, since you know Ron and Karen, why do you call and ask them? At least you would have the satisfation of knowing that you asked.
It seems to me it would go beyond the Ludingtons. I don't understand why the University of Delaware would not object to this affiliation as well. It seems like most universities would be very much against this if it's a known problem & I'm sure U DEL probably wouldn't allow such inappropriate behavior for the professors & coaches directly employed by the university.

[celtic]

It seems to me it would go beyond the Ludingtons. I don't understand why the University of Delaware would not object to this affiliation as well. It seems like most universities would be very much against this if it's a known problem & I'm sure U DEL probably wouldn't allow such inappropriate behavior for the professors & coaches directly employed by the university.

I totally agree and I have wondered this myself. Maybe someone should notify U DEL about this situation. Perhaps they are not aware of the celebrity coaches.

[SkateFan123]

It seems to me it would go beyond the Ludingtons. I don't understand why the University of Delaware would not object to this affiliation as well. It seems like most universities would be very much against this if it's a known problem & I'm sure U DEL probably wouldn't allow such inappropriate behavior for the professors & coaches directly employed by the university.
I agree.

Does anyone know exactly what the relationship between the rink and UD is? UD used to have an relationship with the Kissimmee, FL rink too, by the way.

In that case, it was explained to me that Mr. Ludington was the pro of record when the club first opened.

In the Ellenton rink situation, the UD coaches do not appear at event with Ellenton skaters so I am baffled as to the nature of the relationship.

Mr. Ludington appears at big events with all UD skaters when possible even if he is not the official coach of record. I did not think he appeared with the Jr Pairs Champions who skate out of the Ellenton rink.

Any UD'ers out that that can address the relationship between the rinks?

[WeBeEducated]

I think it is U. of Delaware Skating Acadmy/School that is listed, not the U of Del.
The skating school is Ludingtons. Does the skating school have any connection to the university(other than location?)?

[flyingcameleon]

I do not know Kerry L except from what I have read on this forum, and can only assume that there must be some positive reason why he wants this other coach of alleged questionable reputation to come work with his kids. I believe that people should deal direct with their issues, and I am uncomfortable that people are not dealing with him directly first to find out why he feels it is important for this coach to come, and to voice their concerns to his face.

[oldtimersk8s]

Skatefan: what does it matter that Bradenton is only 5 miles away? There is no rink in Bradenton. The rink is in Brandon 40 minutes expressway time north of the ellenton rink. So, for instance, if you drive from Venice, lets say, which is 45 minutes south of Ellenton, then another 40 minutes past, north, of Ellenton there is your 1 1/2 hour driving time. It is actually a very nice recreational atmosphere. Why must people act like this is no big deal? Tampa is an hour north of Ellenton. Anyway,by the time most people where to get their child out of school and get there, after all this, ice would be over or very crowded full of beginners! Please I feel like you are trying to undermind this driving time. Please check a map before you venture an opinion. Remember snow bird season driving time summer time vacation time driving is horrible, worse than rush hour at times, and adds alot of time to distance.
Flying C: Pardon me, but, but, what are you talking about ...that is the issue here!
I am seeing alot of people here who just don't get it. I said before these children work very very hard here, he demands that and gets that out of these kids. Whether or not he pushes the limit. They are good kids. :bow: They have to to be to stay in his school.
I am going to skate myself now. :)

[SkateFan123]

Skatefan: what does it matter that Bradenton is only 5 miles away? There is no rink in Bradenton. The rink is in Brandon 40 minutes expressway time north of the ellenton rink. So, for instance, if you drive from Venice, lets say, which is 45 minutes south of Ellenton, then another 40 minutes past, north, of Ellenton there is your 1 1/2 hour driving time. It is actually a very nice recreational atmosphere. Why must people act like this is no big deal? Tampa is an hour north of Ellenton. Anyway,by the time most people where to get their child out of school and get there, after all this, ice would be over or very crowded full of beginners! Please I feel like you are trying to undermind this driving time. Please check a map before you venture an opinion. Remember snow bird season driving time summer time vacation time driving is horrible, worse than rush hour at times, and adds alot of time to distance.
Flying C: Pardon me, but, but, what are you talking about ...that is the issue here!
I am seeing alot of people here who just don't get it. I said before these children work very very hard here, he demands that and gets that out of these kids. Whether or not he pushes the limit. They are good kids. :bow: They have to to be to stay in his school.
I am going to skate myself now. :)
Celtic asked how far from Ellenton to Bradenton, I answered.

She didn't ask if there was a rink in Bradenton.

[celtic]

I do not know Kerry L except from what I have read on this forum, and can only assume that there must be some positive reason why he wants this other coach of alleged questionable reputation to come work with his kids. I believe that people should deal direct with their issues, and I am uncomfortable that people are not dealing with him directly first to find out why he feels it is important for this coach to come, and to voice their concerns to his face.

Are you asking people to go directly to KL and ask him why he deliberately hires a banned coach and then touts him as a "celebrity coach"??? He is doing it for the same reason he got Gordie as a judge at Ice Wars -- to help him get back into coaching!!! I don't know KL, just his reputation. I know that certain men of that age will stick together as good ole' boys. Gordie tried this tack before after the situation in Rockford -- he wasn't supposed to coach anymore, but slithered down the road and went to other rinks, then moved, then moved again. Aren't there other good coaches KL could hire? After all, aren't there some with a better track record of producing champions? Also, the power of the press, and this board does get out to many people, seems to be a more effective avenue of getting the word out than going directly to someone who undoubtedly has an ulterior motive.

I would like to ask Skatewind or someone else more knowledgeable than I about the possible repurcussions of hiring a banned coach to do a camp that KL expects his kids to attend, then a competition and a show during the same week, and the show is sanctioned by USFSA, I think. Also, Skatewind or others, what are the liabilities a rink and/or club at that rink can face legally, say if someone files a complaint over an incident that could occur?

I was shocked when someone pointed out within the last two days that the SW Florida club president is also marketing director of the rink!!! Talk about a possible conflict of interest in a situation like this. Is there NO ONE on that board, which is the local representation of the USFSA as a USFSA club, that has a problem with this banned coach being there and advertised as a celibrity coach, then the rink and KL expecting the kids to participate in the camp, competition and show?

[Skatewind]

If the summer skating program plans to present a USFSA sanctioned show, I don't see how a USFSA banned coach could participate in either the planning, coaching, choreography or actual show itself without being in violation of the rules. Although it seems in such a case, it could affect the skating club that has sanctioned the event moreso than the banned coach. If the club especially, but also skaters & parents sponsor this coach in an official capacity at USFSA events knowing his history with the USFSA, they would leave themselves open in the event of complaints or if another skater is abused.

I have heard of past coaches who have had problems with USFSA & they have informed people they switched to ISI for insurance & rink purposes. I don't know if that is still happening or not, but if it is, USFSA has an alignment agreement with both ISI & PSA & they should all agree to close those doors so they can't swing back & forth in the event of serious disciplinary activity.

Regarding rink liability, if they have knowledge of this coach's issues with the USFSA & previous rinks & skaters (best to give it to a named representative of the rink in writing with articles & dates to reference), then if it happens again to a skater at their rink, it seems surely they would be guility of negligence. While "skate at your own risk" is a general guideline during public sessions, it's not worth the paper it's written on when there's negligence involved. The difference between this coach & a rink or club is that in the event of an incident with negligence involved, besides their own insurance, the rink or club has assets which would be worth more than a standard coaching insurance policy that will only pay a limited amount of liability for this type of incident. For USFSA I believe it's $25,000 but these coaches wouldn't have USFSA insurance.

[celtic]

For USFSA I believe it's $25,000 but these coaches wouldn't have USFSA insurance. -- Skatewind

Good summing up and thanks for the info! I believe USFSA insurance info for clubs is posted somewhere on USFSA website. No, the coach would not have USFSA insurance, and I do not think he is a PSA or ISI member either!

If anyone at the club needs any type of written info on coach in question, the ban notice was in the October or November 2001 issue of Skating magazine.

[dejaview]

Are you saying that this particular coach needs liability insurance to be on the ice, but doesn't have it throught the USFSA, or PSA?

[celtic]

When dealing with rink & club management, liability is often a big factor. The basic coaching insurance policies only offer limited liability for individuals when it comes to sexual & child abuse. Rinks & clubs could be held negligent for knowingly sponsoring these banned coaches in the event of another incident & they have assets to pursue that the coach does not.

Under the USFSA policy, it also almost seems like parents who are aware of a banned coaching situation due to child or sexual abuse should feel compelled to report a concern about it to the club & rink so organizations cannot pretend they don't know about it. Otherwise, if something were to happen, the victim could probably pursue the matter against all parties who neglected to report it, including parents & skaters via the club & USFSA.

This post by Skatewind about a week ago is something KL, the Igloo rink, and the club board should seriously consider! Who put them in such a potentially serious situation -- that is the individual who should take care of insurance. Is it worth it???

[Skatewind]

Coaches need insurance in order to teach at almost every rink. They can generally purchase their insurance policy through ISI, USFSA, PSA at an affordable rate if they are a member, so that is what most coaches do. Most rinks require coaches to have insurance at specified amounts in order to be approved to teach at the rink. Coaches who have been dismissed permanently as USFSA members would not be eligible to obtain insurance through the USFSA & would have to seek other means. I'm sure they can probably get some kind of individual policy at a higher cost privately through an insurer, but I don't know what the terms of the policy or disclosure would be.

[SkateFan123]

Coaches need insurance in order to teach at almost every rink. They can generally purchase their insurance policy through ISI, USFSA, PSA at an affordable rate if they are a member, so that is what most coaches do. Most rinks require coaches to have insurance at specified amounts in order to be approved to teach at the rink. Coaches who have been dismissed permanently as USFSA members would not be eligible to obtain insurance through the USFSA & would have to seek other means. I'm sure they can probably get some kind of individual policy at a higher cost privately through an insurer, but I don't know what the terms of the policy or disclosure would be.
Yes, Skatewind, coaches can get private insurance.

Just a comment here, you have all peaked my curiosity. I did an extensive web search on this coach and cannot find any articles referencing him being banned except that this post keeps coming up. I tried several search engines and the USFSs site. Any articles you can link to?

Thanks.

[celtic]

Skatefan123, I doubt if there are any on-line articles about the ban. As I posted earlier today, you can see the ban notice in the Oct. or Nov. 2001 issue of Skating magazine. There was an article in October 2001 in some newspapers well. Hopefully the USFSA will at some point post the names of banned coaches or skaters on its website. The ban was a result of a grievance filed in 2001. For a little more info, you can read the news thread "Permanently Banned Coach Still Finds Ways to Coach".

[Skatewind]

I do not know Kerry L except from what I have read on this forum, and can only assume that there must be some positive reason why he wants this other coach of alleged questionable reputation to come work with his kids.
The real crux of the issue is about doing what is necessary to protect underage skaters. I could really care less what his reasoning is for using this person. It's inappropriate to not only me, but any number of states & organizations to put a coach with a history of problems with underage skaters into a situation where there's daily contact with children.

In my state, it is supposed to be required to run a police check (which many problem coaches would still pass), but additionally it is strongly suggested that a complete background check be done by the organization on anyone who works with children. Unfortunately there are many sports organizations where things like this are not done routinely. Perhaps sometimes there is no one to do it, & it slips through the cracks; or the group doesn't know they're supposed to do it. Or maybe an organization simply doesn't want to do it. In either case, if or when something happens & a coach abuses a child during their watch, they have opened their organization to any liability issues that will follow because they didn't take the necessary steps to avoid it. Groups are supposed to make a good faith effort to minimize the harm that can come from exposure to adults who are known to have such problems with underage athletes or participants.

[celtic]

The real crux of the issue is about doing what is necessary to protect underage skaters. I could really care less what his reasoning is for using this person.

In my state, it is supposed to be required to run a police check & additionally it is strongly suggested that a complete background check be done on anyone who works with children. Unfortunately there are many sports organizations where things like this are still not done routinely. Perhaps sometimes there is no one to do it, & it slips through the cracks, or the group doesn't know they're supposed to do it. Or maybe an organization simply doesn't want to do it. In either case, if or when something happens, they have opened their organization to the liability issues that can follow. Groups are supposed to make a good faith effort to minimize the harm that can come from exposure to adults who are known to have such problems with underage athletes or participants.

Problem is that Gordie McKellen has no police record, even though he should have: he got lucky! Of course, the USFSA banned him, and the FL club and rink people know this! In the present situation, they can't plead ignorance because they are using him despite their full knowledge of his ban and the reason for it! Any background check would uncover this, and word of mouth has already done so!

[Skatewind]

I know. He's one who has always kept under the radar & off the court record. But like you said, there's still documentation available, so if an organization knows about it & uses him anyway, the group would open itself to serious liability issues when the problem arises again. I could not personally be a member of a board or organization that would knowingly approve of a coach like this for a program with children or teens & would feel compelled to speak out against it.

[Rogue]

Problem is that Gordie McKellen has no police record, even though he should have: he got lucky!

Actually, he was just shrewd and waited until the victim was 17, which was the legal age of consent in that state. So no legal crime existed.

[SkateFan123]

Skatefan123, I doubt if there are any on-line articles about the ban. As I posted earlier today, you can see the ban notice in the Oct. or Nov. 2001 issue of Skating magazine. There was an article in October 2001 in some newspapers well. Hopefully the USFSA will at some point post the names of banned coaches or skaters on its website. The ban was a result of a grievance filed in 2001. For a little more info, you can read the news thread "Permanently Banned Coach Still Finds Ways to Coach".

Thanks. I just figured a few news articles about him being banned would appear during a search and none did.

[Skatewind]

Actually, he was just shrewd and waited until the victim was 17, which was the legal age of consent in that state. So no legal crime existed.
It's also because he happened to be in TX & not in OH, where it's considered a felony as we have now learned. It does cause one to wonder how many of these problem coaches plan to live in one state rather than another. However, at least the USFSA rules are the same for members in all states.

[hollywood]

I have been reading this thread now for a couple weeks! I hope that the club and the parents in Florida know all about Gordie Mckellen and the person he is not! He should never teach or be around skaters again. I hope something is done about it down there. I do know for a fact that Kerry is very good friends with Gordie and is on his side. So much on his side that at nationals in Dallas Kerry, Luddy and Mr.Nick try to recured for Gordie to get him reinstated. I only tell you this because of the issue of DU beening invovled. Maybe there is a connection! I am sure there is! I know there is!! :)

[celtic]

Actually, he was just shrewd and waited until the victim was 17, which was the legal age of consent in that state. So no legal crime existed.

How wrong you are, Rogue. If you had read all the posts in "Permanently Banned Coach. . ." thread, you would see that he was almost prosecuted in California, where the legal age is 18, and especially because of his "position of trust" with the victim. And also, that time in California was at the end of an international USFSA competition! The case wasn't prosecuted because the father, so I heard, was not willing to cooperate and denied anything happened. As for earlier incidents, there WAS an underage girl in Rockford, but the parents there were persuaded not to prosecute. So he has been LUCKY, not innocent. ALL crimes are not prosecuted, even these types.

[celtic]

Thanks. I just figured a few news articles about him being banned would appear during a search and none did.

Actually, a friend pointed out to me yesterday that if you go on-line to www.dallasnews.com and do a search in their archives, you will find the article: October 13, 2001 Dallas Morning News article. To read the entire article, though, you have to subscribe. Just wanted you to know it is there.
(Tip: To make the search easier, use "McKellen" and not something too broad like "skating", etc.)

[Skatewind]

Thre have been others besides the articles in the Dallas News, but it's been several years ago so they are probably no longer online or were only in the regular paper. If I can find someone who still has copies of any of them, I will update with the reference information.

[what?meworry?]

you are obfuscating.

it is irrelevant whether or not celtic is "emotionally invested" or not.

people in position of authority over young students have a moral obligation to maintain a profession distance. professors, teachers, coaches, must not in any way involve themselves sexually, romantically, etc. with those over whom they have power. many, many youth become infatuated with those in authority over them. even agressive. and sometimes a parent or guardian might even encourage it (and this wouldn't be the first time that happened). but still, the onus is upon the "authority figure" to resist, to act in a responsible manner. no matter what!

to be blunt, i don't care if she threw herself naked at his crotch, he had no d__n business touching her!!! there are NO mitigating circumstances in this situation.

that she is still with him is irrelavent to the circumstances. and may be, in fact, a resulting "symptom" of the initial technically "sexually abusive" situation...as in not being able to acknowledge the disasterous consequences of the original public and embarrassing liason.

it would be wise for usfsa to make available on their website the exact information as it is published in the official magazine about the factual outcomes of all actions taken regarding grievances---banning, sanctioning, dismissal of grievances, fines.

after all, it was originally published. the only reason usfsa would not make it currently available might make it seem to be a desire to make it "disappear" on purpose to allow "business as usual?"
i can't imagine that would be the case after all the time and sincere effort put into developing the ethics standards, process of grievance and enforcement of consequences to date.

[celtic]

Celtic, I am curious. I have been reading these threads as well as the "Permanently Banned Coach..." one and would like to know if you are or ever were related to any of the parties involved. It seems that you are very emotionally invested in keeping this thread about Gordie alive. I do have firsthand knowledge and neither defend nor try him here. For those of us who do know firsthand the situation that occured in Texas, I think most of us would agree that whatever our judgment is of the situation that it is very tragic the way it all came down, and all very complicated. I do not say for a minute that he was right to ever even think of being in a position to fall for a student, but the fact is he did and they are still together. Some of the things I have seen in this and the other thread are not entirely as they happened, especially with the unfair assumptions and accusations made against the Dallas Club and some of its members who continue to keep Gordie in their lives. For those who knew him and his ex-wife more than just in passing, it is a truly regrettable situation. However, things tend to be said on these boards that sometimes distort the real reality of the situation. Of course, everyone is entitled to his/her view and moral judgment, so let's allow each of us to contribute our own take and in my case possibly defend against some of the info presented as fact when it may not necessarily be so.

First of all, it is against the forum rules to try to ID posters. For this I will report you to the moderator. Second, I am familiar with all the facts, which have been consistenly provided to me. That does not mean I have an emotional investment. As for my keeping this alive, others are posting, too, with the same reactions as I have. YOUR position is unbelievable to me, that you are in your words defending this sexual predator creep! And everything I have posted about the Dallas Club has been 100% accurate: the board members, past and present, who have supported the coach should be made public, from the long-time treasurer, to the president who "hired" him -- yes, the club advertised in Skating magazine, interviewed him, and gave him a loan from a 50l(c)(3) tax exempt "educational" organization, to the current president recommending the current vp to the board, someone who actively supports the coach.

As for the predator and the victim "still being together", according to child psychologists I know, that is a symptom, not a mitigating factor! Remember Elizabeth Smart, when the police found her, she initially denied who she was, then was worried about what would happen to her abductors.

Are you also aware that this predator had a long relationship with an underage teen in Illinois? It is a shame that this creep continues to want to be around young, innocent girls. WHAT IS HIS PROBLEM???

I think most readers and posters to this forum are too intelligent to fall for your diverting the focus tactic and the accusation against me and my identity!

[Skatewind]

I hope topics like these continue to be discussed. I am very interested in the matters of policy that are being developed in this area & the effectiveness of the new USFSA rules now that they are actually being implemented.

Regarding the McKellen problem specifically, it has been pointed out time & time again this is NOT an isolated incident but a continuing problem with underage skaters. It has finally been recognized in the Catholic church & other community groups that people with this problem should not be in a position of trust with children or teens, or be given easy access to them by church, schools or sports groups. The same should go for the skating community & it's time for people in skating to tell these coaches to find another career track that doesn't involve direct contact with minors.

The actions of these coaches also contribute to unprofessionalism since in most instances such improprieties are a clear breach of contract with the parents and/or skater. Coaches who consider things like child & sexual abuse a "gray area" also will usually have a tendency to do the same thing when it comes to business ethics, standards & practices.

[WeBeEducated]

:bow: :bow: you are obfuscating.

it is irrelevant whether or not celtic is "emotionally invested" or not.

people in position of authority over young students have a moral obligation to maintain a profession distance. professors, teachers, coaches, must not in any way involve themselves sexually, romantically, etc. with those over whom they have power. many, many youth become infatuated with those in authority over them. even agressive. and sometimes a parent or guardian might even encourage it (and this wouldn't be the first time that happened). but still, the onus is upon the "authority figure" to resist, to act in a responsible manner. no matter what!

to be blunt, i don't care if she threw herself naked at his crotch, he had no d__n business touching her!!! there are NO mitigating circumstances in this situation.

that she is still with him is irrelavent to the circumstances. and may be, in fact, a resulting "symptom" of the initial technically "sexually abusive" situation...as in not being able to acknowledge the disasterous consequences of the original public and embarrassing liason.

it would be wise for usfsa to make available on their website the exact information as it is published in the official magazine about the factual outcomes of all actions taken regarding grievances---banning, sanctioning, dismissal of grievances, fines.

after all, it was originally published. the only reason usfsa would not make it currently available might make it seem to be a desire to make it "disappear" on purpose to allow "business as usual?"
i can't imagine that would be the case after all the time and sincere effort put into developing the ethics standards, process of grievance and enforcement of consequences to date.
:bow: :bow: :bow: From start to finish of your post I agree and applaud you.
To even imply(as did earlyriser) that Gordie McKellan behaved within the parameters of professional and ethical standards is shocking.
He did not simply "fall" for a teen skating student. He pursued her. He took advantage of typical teenage "love' and "logic", which affects even the most reasonable young woman and distorts her perceptions of what is and isnt valuable in their lives.
For his own self gratification he USED both the girl and the club, and is still whining about the consequences. disgusting
It infuriates me to think of pompous, self rightous club officers giving McKellen the green light to do as he pleases with whom he pleases, regardless of the impact to young skaters.
sick
Good for celtic for keeping the updates available.
Skaters of the 21st century need to have the facts about banned coaches who try to maneuver back into business, especially ones who still believe their predatory behavior was justified and appropriate.

[leafericson]

Through these posts I am seeing a few common points of concern, on predators and abusers vs. these coaches. There is much talk about many instances in their past where they weren't caught.
In so many cases the incident that gets a perpetrator arrested was not the first time to pursue a victim. The same way a physical or verbal abuser can continue throughout a life time through off handed joking and inuendos. Whether the law stops them or not, they continue to have that personality trait.

In the clinical world it is a known fact, through studies, that the typical behavior of a sexual, physical or mental abuser who conitinues to be around their victims will do their damage and then will appolgize or "fix" the problem until their next episode. They can get the victim to accept the fix and then continue with the situation at hand.
It is a known fact, through studies, that individuals, caught will always have their side to their story, which shows why it was alright to do what they did, blaming the injured party. Examples; Saying 'They made me do it this is why.. He said something bad, she made me angry, she threw herself at me, we felt love'. All control issues.

Only when they are considered 'healed' THROUGH INTENSE THERAPY, can they admit they were the wrong ones in the situation, and that they Created the victim, whether it be sexual, physical or mental for their own purposes.
And then hopefully, when cured, if still around victims, or potential victims exit the situation for good.

As said earlier Predators don't have to be low life - do nothings, they can be quite personable, educated, and good at their jobs, be good family men. They can even go on good behavior, break their pattern or remarry, trying to cure themselves by moving on, and sometimes staying 'clean' for a long while, maybe months or years, but, sadly, sometimes for only a few days.

In the world of sexual abuse no matter what form, and there are so many..once a sexual predator always a sexual predator, whether the law catches them or not.
There are those who can somehow continue to live with their mistake,not getting caught right away, too (example; a preditor can live with their victim in any number of loving ways, whether it be a child, a teen, or a babysitter, or a serial rapest).
Just be aware THAT:
It can be compared to an alcoholic, a smoker or heroin addict who has 'quit'. The urge to do it again, no matter what happens with that urge, is the same, that urge will always be lurking somewhere in the back of their soul.

[leafericson]

2 links through the Women's Sport's Foundation with two articles linking coach - student romantic involvement/sexual harrassement. And "A Coach's self assessment: Are you crossing the line with an athlete? "
If the link does not work just go to WOMENSPORTFOUNDATION.ORG.
Maybe this will help those who accept this behavior why it is just plain not acceptable for any coach or parent to condone and have any excuse to accept this type of behavior from another coach, and to hire on a coach of this low caliber now for anything to do with their own child or organisation..

www.womensportfoundation.org/cgi-bin/iowa/issues/coach/article.html?record=575

www.womensportfoundation.org/cgi-bin/iowa/issues/coach/article.html?record=27

[celtic]

I will reply to some comments in your latest reply, Earlyriser, with the risk of again being accused by you of keeping this thread alive.

First, there is no call for a "lynching". This coach has a history of involvement with young skaters. He has no excuse that is acceptable. He should not coach!

The mother or ex-wife will feel outraged, as most people replying do, most rinks do, most other coaches do, the officers of the USFSA do, etc., etc. Any attempts to temper his actions fall short. This is not an isolated incident.

Now, about identifying the Dallas treasurer. He was NOT the president, but he did have a board position and he did not divulge this loan to the general club membership. This loan WAS brought up in an open board meeting in early 2001 where the topic was McKellen. I know because it was reported to me by people present at that meeting and it was in the minutes for that meeting, even though the then-President questioned why it was included. Because it was during an "open" part of the meeting, the then-secretary included it. Some of the club officers at that time tried to minimize it and an explanation was never forthcoming! I never implied that the treasurer did something illegal, but he sure as heck did something against the rules of the Club as a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt, educational organization, and I stand by that. I checked with the state organization that grants 501(c)(3) status, as well as the IRS, and both agencies advised me that this is a serious violation of tax-exempt organizations.

Then you go on to imply that this loan was okay and try to blame another Dallas coach! You state you do not know the facts of the loan -- well I do. You state, and I quote ". . . and Gordie needed a temporary loan due to . . . , I would completely understand." Well, to educate you a little about the rules of a tax-exempt organization, giving loans to individuals is not allowed! Inurement is the word.

No, the Dallas club did not address it right away. The then-president prevaricated, wanted to get rid of the complainant, hired an attorney who sent out letters, and made the atmosphere very combative for the complainant. This info was provided me to by at least two board members. I never implied that the board was trying to reinstate Gordie, which would be an absurdity if they did! To state that one of the officers made a personal decision to offer personal support seems to be rather damning, doesn't it, when he is the vp and is flying in the face of all the facts as well as the USFSA position. And he has a daughter! This goes beyond "his opinion". The board elected him vp and he will probably be the next president. I just want everyone who reads these posts to know about this, and that this particular officer was and continues to be a big supporter. I know it is someone close to him who tells people, "Gordie did nothing illegal". That is the coach's mantra, "I did nothing illegal". Well, that has absolutely nothing to do with the lifetime ban: he violated a professional code of ethics and standard coaching rules, not once, but at least twice.

You, of course, can post your opinions, but please don't try to excuse his behavior, the loan, or the actions of the club.

[Skatewind]

There was also a Dallas coach who claimed to represent the Stars organization and made big promises to Gordie to help with relocating expenses. After the fact, this coach reneged on his promises. I do not know the facts of the loan, but if it was related to this and Gordie needed a temporary loan due to the coach backing out of his commitment, I would completely understand.
While you may personally understand, it is not in accordance with the regulations to lend out 501(c)(3) funds to an individual for their personal use if that is truly the reason the loan was made. I have worked on the business end of non-profit organizations for many years & a loan of this type would not even be a consideration on the agenda by any of the organizations I have worked with because it is highly inappropriate. Sometimes small organizations with new volunteers are not well versed in the policy & will make mistakes like this. It's one thing to do it & find out later it's a big mistake; & quite another to do it knowing it's inappropriate. I have no idea of the specifics of this case, other than to make some general observations. But if a loan like this is made & then on second review, it's still explained away as acceptable rather than something that will be discontinued, then it does sound like a problem. So it really doesn't sound right to label commentary critical about expenditures (or other such information) as a "lynching".

From a non-profit perspective, it's actually really a good thing to have people who are willing to question (& be critical when necessary) the hows & whys of fund allocations & disbursements by 501(c)(3) organizations. If a treasurer or officer is uncomfortable with this level of analysis of their organization's financials, it might not be the right job or organization for the individuals. It should basically be an open book when it's a non-profit group. Otherwise, the group can have a private organization & loan money to anyone they wish.

[celtic]

Earlyriser, your comments, quite frankly, are full of ---t! You are obfuscating, as someone else pointed out. Here you are upset and whining that I have unjustly treated the Dallas FSC long-time treasurer, and now you blast the mother of the victim and the ex-wife! You are not a relative, either, are you? How do you know what went on with the victim, her parents, the coach and his wife?

First of all, the skater moved in with the coach and his wife because the father wanted to hurt the mother! He would not listen to the mother of another skater who warned him of the drinking going on in the coach's home, or the control they were given over her. She even dropped out of high school while she lived there. I have observed the father and, and many others did also, and the general consensus was he was easily influenced and not as perceptive as the mother. And to state "the girl had moved in with the coach . . . because of an unstable and mentally damaging home situation" is bull! Was the situation she moved to stable and mentally nurturing? Having sex with the girl was helpful to her, huh??? And to the wife also, I am sure, right??? If the coach was trying to provide a stable, happy home life, and he was entrusted to do that, then his actions are even worse than previously thought -- he violated the trust given to him and took advantage of an emotionally unstable child, is that what you are saying?

And as for the overseas competition, the mother checked with the USFSA about chaperoning, and the Team Leader was present. The mother was unaware, totally unaware because it was kept from her, that Gordie kept the girl for two nights in California on the way back! The wife knew about this, too. The mother was totally unable to contact anyone in that household -- Gordie had total control.

As for the situation in Illinois, I have it first-hand from one of the parties that the father was convinced not to prosecute for various personal reasons that involved his daughter, the coach's first wife and her family, and the father extracted a promise that Gordie would get out of coaching! Back then I doubt if the USFSA would do anything. This was 15-20 years ago.

Also, you talk as if the present victim made a conscious, adult decision about a relationship when she was the skater in a coach-skater, or student-position of trust, authority figure situation! And to say that the father "just wanted her to be happy and left the decision to her" sounds like the dumbest dad ever (I have heard he is not the sharpest of people) to let a predator in an authority position do this to his child and then say it is her decision, at 17!!! Talk about "unstable and mentally damaging"!!!

Your take on things is beyond absurd. Then you act like poor Gordie, that he is suffering the consequences. Wake up, honey, Gordie is trying his darndest to get back into coaching! And then you bring up other relationships.
Oh, I see, you are saying since it happens to others it isn't as bad!

You remind me of the mother on the board who berated the mother at a board meeting and said "how dare you fire my daughter's coach?" A friend of mine witnessed this! As if that was the issue, and not the broader moral and ethical issue.

I personally am glad and thankful that this man is permanently banned, and I hope that every chance he has to guest coach or whatever that he go through this public scrutiny and debate. It gets the word out that a former national champion, a hall of famer (Hall of Shamer?), is now and forever banned from membership in the governing body of skating.

[celtic]

Since Earlyriser wants to condemn one of the parents and defend the banned predator coach and the officers of the Dallas board, I would like to ask a question:

How many other parents have trusted their child to a coach and the USFSA team leader(s) on an international competition? Can all parents afford a ticket to China, France, Norway, Japan, Italy, etc.? Maybe this mother could not afford to go. After all, this skater had already been on numerous internationals, and the mother financially could not attend?

I heard that the two current board members who are parents of a newly-split pairs team asked the board to give them more money for "chaperone" money for the mothers to go along? This may just be hearsay, but this type of money was not forthcoming from the club a few years ago.

Many other skaters, I am sure, went on international competitions with their coach and the chaperones of the USFSA and didn't face any danger from their coach. To imply that because they were on such a trip without a parent there caused the sexual abuse to happen is beyond belief. Me thinks you are grasping at the proverbial straws to lay blame elsewhere, wherever you can find it, Earlyriser.

[Skatewind]

Being the human being that he is and the fact he does miss coaching, it is natural that he would want to be a part of it again, just as Pete Rose wants to be a part of baseball again. If opportunities present themselves, such as Ice Wars (which he judged a lot before this all happened) or guest coaching, he has a right to accept what is being offered if there is someone who will hire him. It is the responsibility of parents to set the standards under which they will allow their children to be involved with a coach. Having a guest coach in a highly supervised setting is different from a more regular coaching relationship. Some will draw the line and say no way to any coaching; some will allow it under certain circumstances. That is a personal decision the parent should make. In this day and age it is important for the parent to take the responsibility to research anyone their child will be involved with to whatever extent they feel is necessary.
Parents should be able to enroll their child in a regular sports activity with confidence in the program & the expectation that there will be no physical, emotional or sexual abuse. It is misguided to imply it is solely the parents' responsibility, and not the organization's, to take the necessary steps to promote this. It also shows the hidden mindset of many of these organizations if they knowingly choose to hire coaches with problems like this, purposely fail to disclose information about it, & then expect the potential victims or parents to discover it on their own in order to take preventive action. I hope parents who are enrolling their children in skating schools & lessons everywhere will read between the lines of organizations who adhere to such policies.

Frontline rink management & organizations play a key role in all of this. Most public/park rinks would not allow a coach with a known history like this to teach at their facility, & in fact many are mandated by their local government or park policy not to allow it. Yet, the same coach can go to a private facility if everyone is willing to look the other way & wink about the ignorant parents who don't know any better. The skating world needs to change their approach to this not just from the governing level of the sport, but all the way down to the individual rink level.

[celtic]

Well said, Skatewind! It is not fair or good policy to put the burden on the parents, which implies that it is the fault of the parents if their child is the victim of such a coach!

Too many excuses have been made for this coach and too much blame on everyone else in the instant situation by his "adoring" followers.

[celtic]

Parents should be able to enroll their child in a regular sports activity with confidence in the program & the expectation that there will be no physical, emotional or sexual abuse. It is misguided to imply it is solely the parents' responsibility, and not the organization's, to take the necessary steps to promote this. It also shows the hidden mindset of many of these organizations if they knowingly choose to hire coaches with problems like this, purposely fail to disclose information about it, & then expect the potential victims or parents to discover it on their own in order to take preventive action. I hope parents who are enrolling their children in skating schools & lessons everywhere will read between the lines of organizations who adhere to such policies.

Frontline rink management & organizations play a key role in all of this. Most public/park rinks would not allow a coach with a known history like this to teach at their facility, & in fact many are mandated by their local government or park policy not to allow it. Yet, the same coach can go to a private facility if everyone is willing to look the other way & wink about the ignorant parents who don't know any better. The skating world needs to change their approach to this not just from the governing level of the sport, but all the way down to the individual rink level.

I re-read this today, and I would like to point out how one rink handles this: Check out www.bluelineice.com. The page listing all the figure skating instructors includes the statement that all their instructors are members of the United States Figure Skating Association and the Professional Skaters Association. What a great idea -- this should give parents peace of mind knowing that only coaches with these memberships can teach there. Skatewind, this seems to be consistent with your last sentence. Don't you wish ALL rinks would adopt this policy?

[2sk8]

Parents should be able to enroll their child in a regular sports activity with confidence in the program & the expectation that there will be no physical, emotional or sexual abuse. It is misguided to imply it is solely the parents' responsibility, and not the organization's, to take the necessary steps to promote this. It also shows the hidden mindset of many of these organizations if they knowingly choose to hire coaches with problems like this, purposely fail to disclose information about it, & then expect the potential victims or parents to discover it on their own in order to take preventive action. I hope parents who are enrolling their children in skating schools & lessons everywhere will read between the lines of organizations who adhere to such policies.

I recently read this thead, and cannot agree more with Skatewind's comments above. But - listing that instructors are members of USFS & PSA just isn't enough (as Celtic suggested) because PSA & USFS's processes just aren't strutured to deal with these problems until it's too late for many kids. I even know of a coach who uses Kerry L.'s behavior as an example - "I behave that way & can continue to do so as long as I make a National champion - then USFS won't go after me." Of course, we know this isn't USFS' position, but that is still a perception of other coaches!
In addition, USFS & PSA can take disciplinary actions that parents will never know about. The limited publications of an outcome - and that takes a long time - don't provide any facts, in an effort to protect the accused. The disciplinary actions don't necessarily stop a coach from teaching. And how many parents get PSA's monthly publication anyway?
Reality is more like that described by some of the Fl. parents here - you tiptoe around on eggshells hoping not to be on the receiving end of a tirade by the coach. If you dare to complain, you will probably be on the receiving end of another parent's tirade. Speaking up just means others treat your kids badly.
I know of cases where coaches on probation with PSA still teach - and the information is not available to parents. Those parents can't even make an informed choice of whether the kids will be taught by that person. "Frontline rink management" really is where the "buck has to stop", but they are often afraid to act for fear of being sued by the coach. -- and the behavior has to be really extreme before anyone is going to be banned from coaching or membership. Plenty of behavior warrants lesser, but still serious, action - and a parent could fairly conclude that they didn't want such a person anywhere near their child - if only they could find out the facts.
It sounds a bit cynical, but it seems like a lot more effort goes into protecting coaches who have been proven to be abusive than the kids they harm.

[Skatewind]

Since PSA serves coaches, not skaters, I disagree that all coaches need to be members of PSA to benefit skating & skaters. I will agree with it when PSA shows they plan to effectively deal with these problem coaches & stop overlooking the business as usual of the good old boy network. In the past PSA has certainly not taken much initiative when it comes to dealing with these policy issues we have been discussing. Their master rating is a nice idea, but I know many poor quality coaches who have qualified for it. After reviewing the detailed requirements (& knowing some questionable coaches who have qualified for the master rating), I would generally give more credence to coaches who have strong skating backgrounds along with formal training (like a college degree or certificate in any number of majors involving physiology, sports medicine, etc) more than I would to the PSA master rating. But that's a discussion for another thread & day.

Certainly, it is reasonable for rinks (& consumers!) to expect their coaches to be either USFSA or ISI members, since those are the organizations that serve skaters, who are the customers of the rink; just like hockey instructors are usually members of their affiliated organizations.

It would be best if private rinks required the same type of police & background checks that a lot of public/park rinks require. Requiring a signed contract on file for every coach similar in content to the USFSA's Coaches Code of Ethics, Standards & Conduct would go a long way to help clean house if rinks would enforce the standards. That is probably one of the best & most comprehensive documents I could recommend for mandatory signing by coaches because it is covers the most important requirements.

[celtic]

FYI, regarding the accusation of the Dallas club doing something illegal in loaning Gordie money. This is not a case of private inurement as was previously stated. A loan is permissable. So before you try to destroy the club and its members please obtain correct facts.

Go to my post of today (4/14) in "Permanently Banned Coach. . ." for more info on this.

In response to some of your posts: the father of the victim moved the girl to the coach's house against the mother's wishes. The girl couldn't skate when living with the mother??? Let's see, she went to JO as a juvenile, received silver medal at Intermediate and Novice, then went to Nationals her first year as Junior, all living with the mother, and lived with the mother when she won Silver as Junior. When the father moved her, the mother contacted the authorities, who told her that both parents have custody rights and she would have to take legal steps and have a huge custody battle if the father was willing to let her live there. Are you aware that (1) the father was angry because he had pending charges in Plano for domestic battery against the mother? he later paid a fine to avoid trial; (2) the coach and his then wife would not give any info to the mother and she could not contact them through phone or e-mail?

You spend all this time, earlyriser, trying to justify how this relationship happened. You need to go back and read Leafericson's posts and read the links he/she provided! It doesn't make sense to blame other parties and smear them! That is what you are trying to do! THE FACTS ARE THAT THIS MAN IS A SEXUAL PREDATOR OF YOUNG GIRLS. You try to excuse or justify his behavior in Texas. There was one girl in Rockford, without a doubt, and a second one from another state who lived in Rockford and took from him that EVERYONE in Chicago at the time talked about, before her parents moved her out of Rockford! Since nothing came out except various rumors, it is speculative. And the ex-wife also told of a mother of a skater. This coach has overstepped the bounds of coaching ethics many times. Why try to justify one incident when he has a continuing pattern of behavior! You remind me of the people who smear the victim and his family in the Lowery case! Shame!!!

[celtic]

As for asking the people in Illinois to come forward:

I tried, believe me, I tried. The party I spoke to was insistent that he/she not be mentioned, they never wanted this to get out and go through the courts, that it would hurt the girl, the coach's wife, her two small children and her family, which is a lovely family that would have suffered, as well as the girl's family. Unfortunately, if something HAD been done, we would never have had the Dallas situation, because Gordie would have a criminal record.
***
He has a right to try to get back into coaching.

early (I can call you that, can't I, it seems we should be on a "first name basis" by now) this is the most telling thing you have written. I hope everyone reads this: you think he has a RIGHT TO GET BACK INTO COACHING. Well, everyone, this is from the hand of a person very closely connected with the board of the Dallas FSC. Disturbing, isn't it? Gordie was banned from USFS, and really should stay away from young skaters, but this person declares his right to get back into coaching. This and nothing else, justifies the scrutiny over him on boards, in papers, in rinks, and everywhere. Parents, be vigilant!

***
[I]I never said I disagree with you. But he does have a right to make a living without the mother constantly calling up his employers trying to get him fired from his non skating related jobs. Enough is enough.

Now, where do you get this misinformation? I have checked on this, and the mother has never, never contacted his employers, except rinks! She is thrilled that he has another career and wishes him the best. He does have a great personality and is a very hard worker and she wishes him great success in any other line of work
]
***

[leafericson]

I wonder if any coach asking this sexual predator to guest coach has realized what kind of a 'big deal' it really is!

[Skatewind]

FYI, regarding the accusation of the Dallas club doing something illegal in loaning Gordie money. This is not a case of private inurement as was previously stated. A loan is permissable. So before you try to destroy the club and its members please obtain correct facts.
Frankly, I'm from another area & don't know anything about the Dallas club one way or another. However, a loan for personal reasons given by a 501(c)(3) group to any paid or unpaid individuals with whom they have business dealings is highly inappropriate. It's incorrect & against the spirit of the law for me to ask my skating club for a personal loan so I can do some home improvements, or to use the org's AmEx card for my personal vacation, no matter how significant my contribution may be to the club. The coach & I both need to use a bank or credit union for our personal loans just like others do & not borrow money against funds that are supposed to go to the administration of non-profit programs. Obviously, there are people who always want to push the envelope when it comes to business matters, & get away with whatever they can everyday, as has been demonstrated here. Hopefully, parents, club members & board people will do some background reading in this area, take a look at the problems several clubs (& other sports organizations) have experienced during the past few years with mismanagement & misappropriation of funds; & then try to do a better job with the financials of their own organization rather than spending time supporting & justifying these kinds of inappropriate expenditures.

[Skatewind]

He has a right to try to get back into coaching.
Unbelievable. Just like doctors who have had their license revoked or lawyers who have been disbarred, he has been formally dismissed from coaching by the governing body of skating in the US. What he needs to do instead is find a new career track that restricts his exposure to underage youth because of his known improprieties & abuse of power with them.

[celtic]

Skatewind, I couldn't agree more. I have also posted a reply to this unbelievable statement! Unfortunately, I think this poster has dug a deeper hole by this statement and readers should question what would prompt it. If I were a member of a club with this type of self-appointed spokesperson, I would look elsewhere.

[Louis]

Thank you, Earlyriser, for posting your perspective. I also see many shades of gray in this truly regrettable situation, and I'm sorry that those of us who don't see the situation as cut and dried are being branded as "pro-Gordie" when that certainly isn't the case.

My heart goes out to both the skater and her mother because I can honestly identify with where each is coming from, even though I personally believe the truth to be somewhere in the middle. Despite the wake of destruction, the skater in question has developed into a beautiful, mature, intelligent, and vibrant young woman in whom I have every faith to be successful in life -- with or without Gordie McKellen. The wrongs of the past do not necessarily mean that the present is also wrong.

I thank the mother of the skater for her courage, and for probably sacrificing her relationship with her daughter for the potential good of other people's daughters, but she has done all she can possibly do. The message is out there -- Gordie McKellen will never be able to coach again without someone knowing that he had an inappropriate relationship with a student. However, individual opinions and private enterprise can't be controlled no matter how loud the scream or how many people are contacted. If people are still willing to pay for McKellen to coach their children, then they will knowingly accept the risks and the consequences. The mother's conscience can be clear.

[Skatewind]

Unfortunately, he can & will probably coach again without parents, skaters & other rink personnel knowing about his abuse of authority & improprieties. As has been indicated here, there is a faction of the skating community who is perfectly willing to look the other way & overlook it, excuse it, or simply hide it or blame it on parents & skaters for not finding out for themselves. This obviously includes people in management & other influential positions at rinks that are still agreeable to working with him.

I'm not saying you are one of these people Louis, because I don't get that impression from you at all. But let's not waste time pretending there is going to be a full disclosure given to all parents & skaters by either McKellen, the rink management or the program director that is still willing to hire him. A lot of parents & skaters will not be in a position to make an informed decision about this. Or can someone point out the full disclosure information about the summer school guest coach in the information that is being advertised?

[celtic]

So much of what I have said has been misconstrued. Celtic took one word out of my statement, TRY, when I said Gordie has a right to TRY to get back into coaching. I never meant he had an absolute right to coach. No matter what his degree of contrition, if any, is he has the right to fight for any cause he feels strongly about. Hypothetically, what if he did publicly admit he made mistakes and realizes it now and apologizes, would there be any acceptance or forgiveness?
***
You sound here as if you have the best of intentions and have been misquoted: I am not the only one who is shocked by this statement you made! And this is not the first time Gordie did this, can't you realize this??? The USFS had much more info than you do and banned him for life. Check the USFS website and look at the info on grievances and ethics under the 2004 Governing Council agenda and you will see that many grievances are dismissed by USFS, many result in much lighter outcomes. This iinstance is serious stuff, and the coach just simply refused to answer, and so now that he has been banned, you ask if he admitted anything, "would there be acceptance or forgiveness?" Do you really think he has changed? Do you expect reinstatement???

. . . . . . . (Quote deleted)


You have said some very hateful and untrue things about the mother here. You are mean spirited. You have said nothing nearly as serious about the coach here. Much of what this skater accomplished is because of the mother's guidance, and yes, support. And all the facts I have, and many are first-hand observations over a period of time, are that there was much support and love, despite fights and tension between her and a sweet but very stubborn child. If this young lady has to face this scrutiny, that is her choice resulting from the life decisions she is now making. And from my observations, which I tried to keep objective, looking back I do not think this young person "felt the need to leave" as you put it. Again, you are intent on attacking the mother. I saw a change after she moved in with said coach -- a real drop in her skating, her self-confidence, her school attendance, interaction with her fellow skaters and others her age, and I do feel that this relationship with the coach began much sooner than people think. I think he planned the move for his own purposes and I will always feel that way. I do not think for one minute you aired all this meanness was to show that anything was complex, you seem angry that the mother was able to have the coach banned, that's all. The coach had a history -- nothing or nobody you try to blame changes his behavior, he was already a predator.

At the same time this was going on with the mother and skater, I and others (many others) noticed the father of two pairs skaters being verbally and emotionally abusive to his two sons at the rink, even going out on the ice and yelling at them. People talked about this, but fortunately, it didn't have the same outcome. I have heard other coaches say about them, "They will leave home as soon as they are 18", and other comments, and I recall a young lady skater who was so thin that people reported her mother to the board for doing nothing about her daughter's supposed anorexia. This is all in the same rink at about the same time period, so many parent-skater issues were going on at this time. My point: none of these parents could stand much scrutiny, none are better or worse than others.

It's time for this meanness to stop. Accept the fact that this coach is banned for life. To many many posters, this is not strict enough punishment. For me, I accept it as the ultimate punishment the USFS could give. Let's move on.

[Lenny2]

My child skates in the area where Gordie is scheduled to be a "guest coach" with Kerry Leitch (at JP Igloo in Brandenton, Florida) and I can assure you that most of the parents here who will sign up their kids for this camp will have no idea about any of the issues that have been discussed here. It is by pure chance that I discovered it myself. So, those of you who are suggesting that this is simply a choice for the parents to make are fooling yourselves. Parents will not have the information they need to make that choice here.

And, although I agree that parents need to take the initiative to keep themselves informed before involving their children with adults in any activitiy, this is the type of thing where you would expect that the adults involved already would have been checked out and "cleared" for appropriateness on all levels--ability to teach, as well as appropriateness to work with children. I would never expect that someone who has been hired for a high level celebrity camp has been banned from USFS due to allegations of sexual improprieties with a minor, regardless of how anyone feels about the merits of the allegations (which appear to be true on some level, based on the discussion here). It is truly shocking.

We hear many horrifying stories about Kerry Leitch--many of which we chalk up to vicious rumour--but this really takes the cake.

[2sk8]

Lenny 2's statement is exactly the point of my prior post in this thread. In reality, parents are not in a position to obtain the relevant information about most coaches. It is an extreme case where the result is expulsion from the organization (USFS or PSA). As Skatewind properly noted, PSA is essentially a trade organization existing FOR the coaches. Even when it disciplines a member (and that usually Doesn't mean expulsion), the reasons for that discipline are confidential and the brief publication in Professional Skater is not generally available to parents. Any discipline by either of these organizations, if from a few years ago, would not likely be known to parents. Discipline on the local level (by a club or local authority - such as if the police were called in to control aggressive, threatening actiopns by a coach) would also not be known to parents. If rink management knows of this & allows coaches to teach, they must feel the immediate dollar benefit is greater than the risk of a lawsuit that would result in cost to them. A sad situation if you are a parent.
I think most parents would strongly feel that coaching their children is not a "right" - it is a "privilege", and that the parent is the one with a "right" to know whether a person is safe, moral, etc, for their kids to be around. I absolutely agree with Skatewind that more complete background checks should be required - especially since some coaches have a habit of moving around to new rinks in an effort to keep their reputations from catching up with them. If a teacher, camp counselor, etc. can't work with a child without such checks, why can a skating coach who may spend hours with a child & has a huge influence on their development as a person? IMHO that is the level of check required, and USFS/PSA just aren't structured for that - in fact, the connections among the figure skating community are so tight that you get cases like this one where a known coach may well use their connections to try to "rehabilitate" the reputation of a disciplined coach - how are parents supposed to track that down?
Query - does anyone know if coaches at publicly-owned rinks (like a county, town rink as opposed to a private facility) are subject to these checks, like another county employee that works with children (like in a day-care center, at a swimming pool or something) would be? Or of any private facilites that have actual policies about this, instead of just requiring PSA memvership or insurance?

[WeBeEducated]

Thank you, Earlyriser, for posting your perspective. I also see many shades of gray in this truly regrettable situation, and I'm sorry that those of us who don't see the situation as cut and dried are being branded as "pro-Gordie" when that certainly isn't the case.

My heart goes out to both the skater and her mother because I can honestly identify with where each is coming from, even though I personally believe the truth to be somewhere in the middle. Despite the wake of destruction, the skater in question has developed into a beautiful, mature, intelligent, and vibrant young woman in whom I have every faith to be successful in life -- with or without Gordie McKellen. The wrongs of the past do not necessarily mean that the present is also wrong.

I thank the mother of the skater for her courage, and for probably sacrificing her relationship with her daughter for the potential good of other people's daughters, but she has done all she can possibly do. The message is out there -- Gordie McKellen will never be able to coach again without someone knowing that he had an inappropriate relationship with a student. However, individual opinions and private enterprise can't be controlled no matter how loud the scream or how many people are contacted. If people are still willing to pay for McKellen to coach their children, then they will knowingly accept the risks and the consequences. The mother's conscience can be clear.

The young woman is who she is because of her upbringing as a child. The mother can take full credit for that, with pride. It is absurd to imply that she has somehow "blossomed" into an amazing creature once she was on her own with a middle aged man by her side. You are still trying to discredit the mother indirectly and passively support the idea of a pedophile "falling in love" with a student. He successfully turned her away from her high school studies(so he wouldnt have to worry about NORMAL young guys asking her out?!),turned her away from her mother, and eventually her skating. That the impressionable young girl went along with it doesnt make it any less unethical or sad. He got what he wanted, and made sure she felt that he was all she needed. SICK SICK SICK
Every teenage girl I have ever known can be at odds with the mother over the stress of school , sports, and of course, teenage boyfriends.
It is nauseating to think what hell this poor mother had to go through to see her daughter being manipulated by this man when she was just in her teens.
Yet it is a classic story of pedophiles- they get the girl/boy to distrust the parents, they cultivate a rift between them, they move in to fill the void. Classic. They offer comfort every time the kid argues with the parent about all the normal stuff kids and parents argue about. big deal, so what if mom and daughter had arguments? I get on my daughter about grades, boys, skating...I guess I can be thankful that no Gordie approached her about ole mean mom!!!! What a sleazeball he must be. It truely makes me ill.
It is so bizarre that anyone would say that there are 2 legitimate sides to this story.
There is one.
A young pretty girl,successful in skating, going to school with her peers, is coached by a middle age man who likes to have sex with minors. He is married but he doesnt honor that concept either. He manipulates the girl to give up everything but him. She does. He turns her away from her mother who opposes him of course. When she is only 17 he takes her to hotels without telling anyone. He lies about it, sneaks.
Sad , sick, and unforgivable.
worse are those who say that his behavior was justified since the girl cooperated!
She may be starting to enjoy other things like college, etc., but that doesnt mean that she hasnt lost a great deal, even if she isnt yet cognizant of it, and it certainly doesnt mean that Gordie should get to coach innocent teens unprepared for what he has to offer! Unless they read the little paragraph in Skating magazine a few years ago(when the current teens were 12?13?) they will have no idea of his background or even the fact that he has been banned. The information is not "out there" for all to see. Most of all, many parents would never think a discredited coach would still be coaching..so they are unaware of his past and cannot make a responsible decision.Where does a parent find information about unethical coaches Louis?? How does a skating family know that Gordie took a 17 year old skating student to a hotel for two nights???
If a school teacher went on a school field trip and took an extra few days in a hotel with one of the female students it would be on National news.
In skating it is considered ok? forgivable? within the norm? something to sweep under the rug?
sick
sick
sick

[celtic]

Please don't talk about stopping the meanness when you AGAIN have put something out here to purposely identify these two parents. Everyone was concerned about anorexia in more than one of the skaters. Show me in the bylaws what the club is supposed to do about this. Have you ever made a mistake as a parent and said something in front of people at the rink that you later regretted? Do you know what behavior precipitated this father's anger? Obviously you were once a member of the Dallas Club and now are very angry at certain of its members and are finding any way you can defame them on this board. There are always people who are jealous of success too. The only reason I bring up the mother here is because it explains the dynamics that were occuring in this situation. I sincerely meant what I said about hoping the rift will heal. I'm sorry you see meanness in it. I never painted Gordie as a saint. He is far from it. But not everyone was concerned about investigating his private life before they hired him as a coach as he always conducted himself professionally at the rink. How much did you check out before you hired him? If you truly want the meanness to stop, then quit trying to identify and diss these other parents who have nothing to do with the Gordie situation.

You are so angry. You are angry at the mother, me, the Stars, the Lone Star Club, and who knows who else. Let's be rational. Why attack me? I never hired Gordie. But if I had, it would not be my place to check him out -- that should have been done by the Dallas FSC! And that is why these threads are necessary -- so other parents, coaches, rink managers, etc., can know the truth because obviously not many people know about him even now.

You have viciously attacked the mother and ignore the fact that the coach had this problem before he met his current victim. It's like blaming the mother for an alcoholic getting off the wagon when he had a drinking problem before (this is a hypothetical situation and I am not implying it about anyone in particular). But you are using the old defense tactic of focusing on another party to shift attention from this predator coach who has a continuing problem and trying to give the impression that this skater ran to him to get away from her mother. If she did run away, he should have gotten her counseling, made sure she had a peer group at school and at the rink, and not used her vulnerability to molest her.

My comments about the other parents hit home, obviously. I was pointing out that no parents are above scrutiny, other things were going on at the same time, but fortunately not with the same result!

And don't bet that I was a member of this club: I could be a rink employee, another parent, a friend, a member of another club or not.

People will make up their minds about this coach, hopefully by his actions, both in this case and earlier, and not by diversions. After all, the people in this situation did not know him when he was misconducting himself during the previous instances.

Reading back on your posts, most people are shocked by your comments about his right to try to coach again, and your take on things. You have every right to this take, but the facts were weighed during the grievance process and resulted in the lifetime ban.

[leafericson]

Can anyone tell me why Gordie didn't go to his usfsa hearing at Governing Council?

[celtic]

Can anyone tell me why Gordie didn't go to his usfsa hearing at Governing Council?

I don't know his reason. I read that he chose not to respond to the complaint or to take part in a hearing.

[celtic]

Actually, hearings are not held at Governing Council. A hearing panel is selected for hearings. I don't know who makes up the panels.

[hollywood]

because he was so guilty! he would not face it! trust me i know! i know him so well that when he got banned that he was going to make sure that she would never skate again! because if he couldnt she couldnt either! so sad all she need to do was to get out there! but he had this sick thing with her. he should never teach again! and i will make sure he doesnt! and i have to say thank you for all of your support and feel the very wrong doing of this person.

[celtic]

[QUOTE=Lenny2]My child skates in the area where Gordie is scheduled to be a "guest coach" with Kerry Leitch (at JP Igloo in Brandenton, Florida) and I can assure you that most of the parents here who will sign up their kids for this camp will have no idea about any of the issues that have been discussed here. It is by pure chance that I discovered it myself. So, those of you who are suggesting that this is simply a choice for the parents to make are fooling yourselves. Parents will not have the information they need to make that choice here.


It's a shame you had to hear about it by chance when the thread, as it stood at the time, was sent directly to your club president! Question your club board about this -- it was sent so your club membership would have the knowledge to make a choice about enrolling your children! Apparently the club leadership decided not to let you be aware of this discussion. Hopefully you will share it with other parents in the area. It is not up to parents to police these matters and do background checks when you enroll your children in a rink of that caliber with a well-known director and head coach!

[Lenny2]

To be fair to the Southwest Florida Figure Skating Club, where this camp is being held, we are not members of that club, and I don't know whether the club leadership has disseminated this information to its members. Knowing how tight the club leadership is with Kerry Leitch, though, it would shock me if the club had taken any position that was contrary to Kerry's wishes.

But, keep in mind that there are several other skating clubs in the area, including two in Tampa, one in Ft. Myers, one in Kissimmee, and one in Orlando, all within an hour or two drive of this rink. Hundreds of skaters who are members of these other clubs live within easy driving distance to JP Igoo, where this camp will be held, and many will sign up for this camp. How are these skaters supposed to obtain this information? Of course, we will disseminate it to the people we know so that they can make their own choices. But, as I said before, I just can't believe that a facility of this supposed caliber would put someone like this on staff, regardless of his teaching credentials. It's sickening.

[leafericson]

I still would like to know the reason that Gordie did not appear. Whether he was guilty or not doesn't excuse the fact that by not appearing halted all chances of him ever restoring his usfs membership.
Why would anyone do that?
He must have realized that he AND HIS BUDDIES could make fools out of the USFS.

[celtic]

Many of us are also shocked that this would occur. I don't know how to get this information out except to alert people tho these threads and word of mouth. If skaters and parents have been members of USFSA for a few years and still have Skating magazines from then, as has been posted before, they can look in the November 2001 issue for the ban notice. And there is a link in this thread earlier to a news article that appeared about that time in the Dallas Morning News. A few people have suggested to USFSA that they list banned people on their website, but that may be awhile.

Parents should not have to hunt up this information: they should be able to have faith in rink management to hire people in good standing as coaches and guest coaches, and anyone else who is in close contact with their children.

[Skatewind]

I still would like to know the reason that Gordie did not appear.
Well of course I don't know exactly why he didn't participate. But my guess would be he didn't participate because he realized he was in serious violation of the rules & the consequences would be the same either way. Basically, he avoided incriminating himself by not participating. Isn't he also one of the members who tried to completely sidestep & end the grievance process by resigning his membership beforehand? At least one member tried it & it resulted in the addition of a new rule that clearly confirmed the grievance process would still go forward if the member voluntarily chose to resign during the grievance.

[celtic]

Well of course I don't know exactly why he didn't participate. But my guess would be he didn't participate because he realized he was in serious violation of the rules & the consequences would be the same either way. Basically, he avoided incriminating himself by not participating. Isn't he also one of the members who tried to completely sidestep & end the grievance process by resigning his membership beforehand? At least one member tried it & it resulted in the addition of a new rule that clearly confirmed the grievance process would still go forward if the member voluntarily chose to resign during the grievance.

I agree with your guess. And yes, he did resign his membership beforehand, which attorney friends of mine suggested was a way to exit through one door and try to enter later through another door. Of course, if a hearing had been held and the outcome had been the same, i.e., permanent ban, that doesn't mean he could have successfully overturned that in an appeal, just that he had the right to appeal. Correct me if that is wrong, Skatewind.

[leafericson]

Earlyriser please go into the Lowery post and look at the frogsonice link. It is the actual usfsa policy Statement on Harassment and abuse. And then go into the 'highly publicized grievence' link. And then ask those girls from Rockford to please stand up after all these years!
Those girls are most likely in college and/or married now with children and a life of their own..

(What amazes me is that Kerry would subject himself and his girls to such a possible scandel. After just finishing up with the canada/pair boy scandel).

Even a controlled camp environment lets him get close and to meet the girls. (hypothetical)..Touch them to show positions, put his arm around them to be kind, etc.
Exposing all these girls, to future molestation down the road at another rink in the future, not his boys though, they're safe, after all he only goes after the girls!
Is this rehabilitating him or giving Gordie future victims?

[WeBeEducated]

because he was so guilty! he would not face it! trust me i know! i know him so well that when he got banned that he was going to make sure that she would never skate again! because if he couldnt she couldnt either! so sad all she need to do was to get out there! but he had this sick thing with her. he should never teach again! and i will make sure he doesnt! and i have to say thank you for all of your support and feel the very wrong doing of this person.

It is so easy to warp the perceptions of a teenager. I feel really sad about this girl in particular, no matter what she is doing now, I feel sad that someone took advantage of her, turned her away from her family, away from her immense talent, and away from normal age appropriate activities/friends.
And through it all this man has seen it as his "right" to do what he wants with whomever he wants, regardless of how it affects others or how it is perceived by society.
He hasnt changed, so why would he be "safe" in the same situation???
He still thinks he did nothing wrong!
Why then would he behave any differently???
And now there are some who encourage him to try to sneak back into the system, hide the truth, fool a few more, like he did in Dallas. Same behavior, different location.
Parents of the Florida Club need to question their club president/officers for not giving them this information.
Eventually, members there will all know that club officers were aware of his background and that club officers kept that information from parents.
Why hide the information?
To satisfy Kerry Leitch?
Sounds like he sure has his little core of groupies! :twisted:

[IceAngel2007]

does anyone here, skate at JP IGLOO besides myself? if you do whats ur name or the person who skates there? and who is your/their coaches name?

[dejaview]

[QUOTE=Lenny2]
But, keep in mind that there are several other skating clubs in the area, including two in Tampa, one in Ft. Myers, one in Kissimmee, .....

Speaking of the Tampa club, TBSA had David and Rita Lowery on their staff a few years ago until they found out he was abusing kids at that club. They kicked him out!! David and Rita moved to the Cleveland, Ohio area. Now there is a thread about David Lowery possibly facing a trial after the Grand Jury found sufficient evidence for him to be tried for a similar charge. Kudos to the Tampa club :bow: :bow: :bow:
Unfortunately once people like him move though, it's dificult to let others know at the area they've moved to what the danger is.
So heads up Florida Club, concerned people are trying to help you.

[Rogue]

[QUOTE=Lenny2]


Speaking of the Tampa club, TBSA had David and Rita Lowery on their staff a few years ago until they found out he was abusing kids at that club. They kicked him out!! David and Rita moved to the Cleveland, Ohio area. Now there is a thread about David Lowery possibly facing a trial after the Grand Jury found sufficient evidence for him to be tried for a similar charge. Kudos to the Tampa club :bow: :bow: :bow:


I can't offer kudos to the Tampa club. If they had collected evidence and turned him over to the authorities, I would definitely :bow: to them. But all they did was "pass the trash" to another rink in another area. Unfortunately, this happens all too often in both rinks and schools. The offender is allowed to "resign" and then just moves on to another location and another victim.

[IceAngel2007]

The Igloo is located in Ellenton, FL, I think. I'm not sure how far away that is from Bradenton. Even an hour's drive can be a difficult drive when trying to accommodate school schedules and parents' work schedules.

Having another rink close by is helpful and losing skaters can financially impact a coach and/or rink, but it seems there are always skaters and parents to fill the void.

JP Igloo is located in Ellenton, Its about 30 minutes from Bradenton, w/ little or no traffic. trust me its hard. they need an ice rink in Bradenton.

[dejaview]

I can't offer kudos to the Tampa club. If they had collected evidence and turned him over to the authorities, I would definitely :bow: to them. But all they did was "pass the trash" to another rink in another area. Unfortunately, this happens all too often in both rinks and schools. The offender is allowed to "resign" and then just moves on to another location and another victim.

That's an excellent point and your absolutely right. The only reason I offered kudos was because at least they kicked him out. The Florida Club has been forwarned and now someone needs to act on it.
Does anyone have the information on this camp?

[Skatewind]

It doesn't look like the link is working:

http://www.jpigloo.com/Celebrity_camps.html

[Rogue]

By the way, people keep talking about forwarding the thread to the rink management. Has anyone thought about forwarding this thread to local media?

[celtic]

It's been pointed out to me that Igloo is no longer advertising their "Celebrity Camp" on their website. Skatewind has already posted a link. If you can't get it to work, go to www.jpigloo.com. Does anyone know if they are just taking it off their website to prevent concerned parties from looking at it? Seems cowardly and more than a little devious, doesn't it?

Rogue, that's a good idea about contacting the local media! Hope someone does. According to Lenny2, Tampa and Bradenton, two larger cities, are not that far away.

[Skatewind]

Has anyone thought about forwarding this thread to local media?
Here is an example of an article about another coach from the Seattle Times, "Unregulated private coaching ripe for abuse", so it seems the media does have some interest in this topic:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/local/coaches/news/dayfour.html

[celtic]

Here is an example of an article about another coach from the Seattle Times, "Unregulated private coaching ripe for abuse", so it seems the media does have some interest in this topic:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/local/coaches/news/dayfour.html

Thanks so much for this link! Change the names, change the locale, and you have the situation in Dallas! Unscrupulous coaches who fly under the radar, move to another locale, charm the parents and skaters, use them to meet another victim, parents who continue to sing the coach's praises and condemn the victim or parent(s), and the coach slips somewhere else where few or no one has heard of him (like Florida?). Unlike schools, these type of coaches are unregulated, and there is only so much USFS can do.

So any suggestions to make the Igloo rink and SW Florida FSC more accountable to parents and skaters about their upcoming camp? And ideas about getting the news out to those from surrounding areas who wil sign up w/out a clue?

[Lenny2]

It is very interesting that the "celebrity camps" link has now disappeared off the JP Igloo website. I just viewed it last week. We have been hearing rumors for years that JP Igloo was being sold, and, most recently, we have heard that it had been sold and was going to be torn down and turned into a recreational vehicle sales park, but the deal fell through. (RVs frequently are sold from the parking lot of the rink--this rink is in a community where many retirees live.) Regardless of whether this particular rumor is true, I am quite certain that the rink is for sale and that the rink has not made money in the past few years. We have also heard (again, don't know if this is true or not) that Kerry Leitch has his house on the market, as do some of the families of his students. The Southwest Florida Figure Skating Club is supposed to host a Future Champions Series event in September, but the application is not out yet. Of course, it is still a bit early, so we can't say whether that will go through or not. Their website, www.swffc.org, still says that the application is coming soon.

[WeBeEducated]

Everyone should read that link with the story on unregulated coaches and abuse.
It is exactly as we have been saying...that the coach knows what to do, what to say to convince families to trust him while he manipulates their child into an inappropriate relationship. It illustrates the common tactic of the coach fueling the fires between parent and child in order to get control of the victim. And the story parallels the Dallas and Connecticut stories by showing that often the coach is outgoing, charismatic, and influential.
In this story when the parent began to question the daughters interest in the coach, the daughter threatened to run away, as is so typical of teenage girls.
And this is just what happened in the Dallas case, and you have to wonder why anyone would try to legitimize Gordie's actions then and now, as some have tried to do.
To me what he did is unethical, immoral, and should be considered illegal, same for Bob Young, and the rest of them.

[SkateFan123]

It doesn't look like the link is working:

http://www.jpigloo.com/Celebrity_camps.html
The link is incorrect, the page is an htm page, not an html page.

[SkateFan123]

It's been pointed out to me that Igloo is no longer advertising their "Celebrity Camp" on their website. Skatewind has already posted a link. If you can't get it to work, go to www.jpigloo.com (http://www.jpigloo.com/). Does anyone know if they are just taking it off their website to prevent concerned parties from looking at it? Seems cowardly and more than a little devious, doesn't it?

Rogue, that's a good idea about contacting the local media! Hope someone does. According to Lenny2, Tampa and Bradenton, two larger cities, are not that far away.
The camp link is still there and working just fine.

Bradenton is not a large city by any means and does not have an ice rink to my knowledge just a roller rink.

[celtic]

Yesterday several tried to find the camp info on Igloo's website and couldn't. This morning I tried again, using the same, old-fashioned method: Went to the website, clicked on Figure Skating, then to the camp. The website info has been reconfigured and the camp page is totally different -- they are using the Jr Pairs National Champs' picture prominently on the page and the "consulting, guest coaches" is in a small box. But the info is still there, and notice: the show and competition are at the end of the camp, and I would bet the bank that one must enroll in the camp to be in these two (show and camp) events, which are most likely sanctioned by USFSA.

Maybe it's time other surrounding clubs and the media were alerted, just like someone suggested earlier (Rogue, I think?).

[blades]

8-)

dunno if rouge mentioned it...but i mentioned getting the info out to the press about two or three pages ago on this thread...

ya can wring yer hands...ya can discuss it to death...but...one unfavourable story in the paper (with pictures) will have 'em backpeddl'in like crazy...

i'm sure the local television stations might be interested too...

[celtic]

8-)

dunno if rouge mentioned it...but i mentioned getting the info out to the press about two or three pages ago on this thread...

ya can wring yer hands...ya can discuss it to death...but...one unfavourable story in the paper (with pictures) will have 'em backpeddl'in like crazy...

i'm sure the local television stations might be interested too...


Yes, you did! You're a great thinker, Blades! :bow:

[Skatewind]

The camp link is still there and working just fine.
Actually, the link was not there yesterday when we all checked for it. The one I linked was from the search. And I also checked it through regular access to the rink's website & it was not available. The advertisement that is posted now is not the same as the one originally posted & is formatted differently:
http://www.jpigloo.com/CelebrityCamp.htm

Is that a USFSA competition & show that is being advertised with the promotion for the banned guest coach?

[leafericson]

I looked at the camp ad, I wonder what all those coaches on staff think about having to move over and share the kids with a slime like that. Even if it is only for a couple of days.
Don't you wonder if this is Kerry's way of bringing him to Florida!

On my computer all of the past results to competitions for their kids are down, too. Of course there will be alot of kids on those lists that have changed to other coaches.

I am confused is the club hiring Gordie or J.P.Igloo? Dallas Club hired Gordie but is this hiring and the doings of Kerry or the club? Who is actually responsible for any/if any damages involving Gordie.

[celtic]

Actually, the link was not there yesterday when we all checked for it. The one I linked was from the search. And I also checked it through regular access to the rink's website & it was not available. The advertisement that is posted now is not the same as the one originally posted & is formatted differently:
http://www.jpigloo.com/CelebrityCamp.htm

Is that a USFSA competition & show that is being advertised with the promotion for the banned guest coach?

In a post I made earlier today, I noticed this, too. They are featuring some of Leitch's skaters in the ad, which is sure to please the skaters and parents, and minimized the guest coaches in the ad. Good PR on Leitch's part.

Your question about sanctions: I am fairly certain the show and the competition are sanctioned events. Tickets are sold, or are they? If so, where does the money go -- are the guest coaches paid in part from the proceeds? Interesting things to consider.

[leafericson]

Last year I was told Gordie did not stay for the show. Luddy was supposed to stay but he was not there either. So it sounds like KL read his rules, last year.

[Lenny2]

I am confused is the club hiring Gordie or J.P.Igloo? Dallas Club hired Gordie but is this hiring and the doings of Kerry or the club? Who is actually responsible for any/if any damages involving Gordie.

This camp will be run by the rink, not by the club. The ad is on the JP Igloo website, not the club's website. The kids in the ad are Kerry's top students. I don't think that the club will have anything to do with the camp, except that their kids will be the students.

As for the show, hard to say who will be running that. It's probably also a "camp" event, run by the rink.

[celtic]

This camp will be run by the rink, not by the club. The ad is on the JP Igloo website, not the club's website. The kids in the ad are Kerry's top students. I don't think that the club will have anything to do with the camp, except that their kids will be the students.

As for the show, hard to say who will be running that. It's probably also a "camp" event, run by the rink.

Yes, the rink is doing the camp, but from all reports as posted, with the club's close cooperation: if the skaters from the club are involved, and the club officers don't choose to get the word out about the banned coach on staff, then they ARE having something to do with it, by participating! Also, I have heard the show and comp are USFSA sanctioned events. Can anyone confirm?

[Lenny2]

I am sure that these will be USFSA sanctioned events--the competitive skaters would know better than to skate in a non-sanctioned show, and I am sure that Leitch would not jeopardize their status by having them skate in a non-sanctioned show. But, if you look at www.icejudge.com, you will see that the sanctions officer has not yet obtained sanctions for these events. The sanctions list may not be up to date, as it appears to be only through March 18.

[Krammer]

The incident was 4 years ago, she was just shy of eighteen, and they are still together?

[celtic]

The incident was 4 years ago, she was just shy of eighteen, and they are still together?

Have you read this thread? What does your quetion matter? He was a coach, 30 yrs older, with a history of involvement with his young skaters, who used his influence on an impressionable teen, who was 16-17 at the time. Now he is trying to coach again in another part of the country where few knew his past. It mattered enough to the USFSA to ban him for life.

[Krammer]

I know more than just what's posted here. One mistake does not a history make. I just don't understand all the time and energy everyone puts into these posts complaining about other people and they're choices and teaching styles. The girl in question is now an adult, and was practically an adult when the incident occured...if she is okay with it, why do we care?

[celtic]

I know more than just what's posted here. One mistake does not a history make. I just don't understand all the time and energy everyone puts into these posts complaining about other people and they're choices and teaching styles. The girl in question is now an adult, and was practically an adult when the incident occured...if she is okay with it, why do we care?

I see that you just joined and these two posts are your only ones. You took the trouble to start these latest posts. For one, re-read what I just wrote about position of authority. She was not an adult but a sheltered teen, and I too know more, and surely more than you. She was 16 I am sure when he started to weave his web, and supposedly 17 when the sexual abuse started. She is 20 now and still dependent on others. We care because it is immoral what this sleazeball has done through the years and continues to do. Why do we care -- well apparently we all have different moral standards. If you don't care, why bother to post? Most posters are appalled that such a creepy predator would try to continue fooling people and set up shop in another part of the country.

If you really don't care, you shouldn't mind the majority of us who want to keep this news available for other parents to know about.

[Krammer]

So why stop here? Why doesn't someone call Kerry and ask him why he has let this coach in?

[celtic]

So why stop here? Why doesn't someone call Kerry and ask him why he has let this coach in?

Well, I think people have asked him and he doesn't care. Read over this thread and the "Permanently Banned Coach. . ." thread to see the relationship between Leitch and the SW Florida FSC. I'm not going over it all again. Parents at the surrounding rinks can read these threads -- it gets the word out, and there will be more fall-out from that, probably, than a call to Leitch.

[Skatewind]

So why stop here? Why doesn't someone call Kerry and ask him why he has let this coach in?
Listening to such a rationale would not be an effective solution to the problem. Hopefully parents who read this understand it for what it is. There are many coaches of this level who are just as qualified & who are available to make a significant contribution to a summer school program. A conscious choice was made to use one who has a history of problems with underage skaters.

Who really cares why he made the decision, or if he chooses to disrespect the USFSA guidelines or wants to justify the failure to disclose? The real problem & issue at hand is how to best prevent child abuse & give parents the information they need to make informed decisions.

[Krammer]

I understand the basis for the anger, what he did was wrong, I don't dispute that. He didn't go to his hearing because they just want it to be over. And Kerry sees Gordie for what he is: a good coach.

[Krammer]

The real problem & issue at hand is how to best prevent child abuse & give parents the information they need to make informed decisions.[/QUOTE]

That's where the energy should go, not beating a four year dead horse.

[celtic]

The real problem & issue at hand is how to best prevent child abuse & give parents the information they need to make informed decisions.

That's where the energy should go, not beating a four year dead horse.[/QUOTE]

Whatever your opnion is, fine. I, and others here obviously, feel that we are helping to prevent it by posting on a public forum that some people, like Leitch, with the apparent complicity of the club in his rink, is hiring a coach who could possible commit abuse yet again. This makes it a pretty live horse. If you are upset about it, that is not the issue here. Why are you concerned if we wish to take the time and trouble to alert other parents and other skaters.

[Skatewind]

If you add in the other incidents, the horse is well over four years old, but unfortunately it isn't dead yet. Although it might finally be over when he accepts responsibility for his problem & finds a new profession that doesn't involve direct contact with underage skaters.

[celtic]

He didn't go to his hearing because they just want it to be over. And Kerry sees Gordie for what he is: a good coach.


I don't need to read the comics today, this is my laugh. I feel sorry for anyone who still uses and believes this argument: let's forgive everything, because he's a good coach (no matter he has this sick attraction to girls 30 years younger)! And many think he didn't attend the hearing because of his guilt and perhaps not to incriminate himself.

Arent there much better coaches out there? Check the records.

[Krammer]

Fine, agree to disagree on the whole Gordie thing. (Funny that is a woman goes for a guy much younger, that's fine, if a guy does it, he's a perv)

Why do people appear to have such a hate on for Kerry? Besides his hiring practices.

[Skatewind]

(Funny that is a woman goes for a guy much younger, that's fine, if a guy does it, he's a perv)
Surely you didn't miss last year's grievance against a female coach that had an issue like this? It seems the USFSA policy is being applied when necessary, regardless of gender or sexual orientation so there's not much need for rhetoric like this.

[Krammer]

Surely you didn't miss last year's grievance against a female coach that had an issue like this? It seems the USFSA policy is being applied when necessary, regardless of gender or sexual orientation so this type of rhetoric will not be very useful.

Sorry, missed that one. It was a generalization, away, I take it back. No need to make with the claws.

[Skatewind]

No need to make with the claws.
No claws here. Just information from people like me who are willing to share it when others won't. Or discuss it without embarassment in the hopes that changes will be made for the next generation of skaters.

[2sk8]

I think everyone agrees that the "real" problem is HOW to get parents the information they are really ENTITLED to have in situations where they are trying to make coaching choices that protect the welfare of their children. For all the reasons discussed in this thread (and my prior posts), that information isn't really available to parents. People who are willing to speak up in a forum like this, or in a rink (which is really hard if your child still hopes to skate there with another coach), are necessary when the information isn't reasonably available from a rink, PSA or USFS. Coaches might call it "gossip", but it's a necessary evil until the "powers that be" come up with a better, workable solution. Why should coaches get to hide behind an absence of information? If a coach you were considering for your child was (or had been) on probation or suspension by either organization (or had a criminal record) for mistreatment of children (and this certainly covers more than a sexual relationship, that is considered severe enough to result in a lifetime ban), wouldn't you want to know? Wouldn't you believe you had a right to know? If such a person taught your child in school or was a camp counselor, who wouldn't object?
Kudos to those who aren't afraid to speak up - and let's hope someone takes it seriously enough one day to come up with a fair solution that makes "gossip" less necessary!

[hollywood]

something i need to understand. is kerry trying or is he going to hire gordie down in florida to coach again? or is this all hearsay? i would like to know.

[Lenny2]

Gordie is on the staff of the JP Igloo "Celebrity Camp." There is no indication that he has been hired to be on the permanent coaching staff at JP Igloo.

[WeBeEducated]

The real problem & issue at hand is how to best prevent child abuse & give parents the information they need to make informed decisions.

That's where the energy should go, not beating a four year dead horse.[/QUOTE]

If it was a "dead horse" issue then Gordie would have sought professional help for his problems with impulse control and inappropriate behavior involving minors.
He would have admitted to his lack of good judgement, his lack of responsibility toward the skater and her family, and his lack of respect for his position of authority within the USFSA.
He would have apologized to the USFSA, the girl , and her family for the insensitive and destructive manipulation of an innocent CHILD, who was just 16 when the foundation was laid by Gordie to coerce her into a relationship.
And most of all, he would have shown true concern for the young lady by realizing that he has selfishly cut her off from friends, activities, family, and even her skating in order to control her, and he would have ENDED the relationship!
But he has done nothing of the sort.
He hasnt stepped up once to claim his role as an inappropriate, unethical coach seeking gratification with minors and other young women who are his students.
He has not apologized.
He does not see his actions as worthy of debate, and definately not worthy of disciplinary actions!
He isnt nor was he ever honest about his intentions.
Therefor, the issue remain opens, alive, and problematic, as there are many attractive young girls in skating who will make the mistake of trusting him as a coach when he is untrustworthy, and they will make the mistake of feeling safe with him when he is a potential danger to their emotional well being.
As soon as the 20 year old gets bored with an old 50 year old creep and comes to her senses as to how she has been used, he will look for another young skater to take her place, just exactly like the coach in Connecticut did . So, rather than quietly "forgetting" about him, it is in fact our duty to make sure that his deeds are well known and that his options for coaching are limited.

[celtic]

Well said, WeBe! :bow:

[IGLOO]

After reading this thread for the last week I can’t help but laugh at the comments made about J.P.Igloo, Shantell, and Kerry. To set the story straight I’ll waist a little of my time with you underachievers.

J.P.Igloo like most (one owner rinks) the Igloo is and has been for sale for a few years now, the owner is looking to move up north with her kids. The rink is running on ALL cylinders and would make absolutely no sense in shutting it down, but who knows.

Shantell (Tilley) is great! Don’t spread rumors about someone like this. Shantell is a healthy, hardworking, and vary disciplined skater with outstanding parents, trust me I know them all vary well. I envy her work ethics, and so should you!

And for Kerry, I’m not familiar with what he did (slapping a male student). I’m sure he wishes he could take it back, heck if Shantells partner mouthed off to her I’d slap him myself, but he wouldn’t because they have one of the best coaches in the world and he teaches discipline. Some say Kerry’s too hard on the kids, JUST ASK THE KIDS they will tell you otherwise, some kids are weaker then others and can’t handle a professional training atmosphere like the one built by Kerry and his team here in Florida.

And for you threatening to go to the media, what are you waiting for, or have you tried. ;)

[Lenny2]

Igloo, since you seem to be so knowledgeable, what are your thoughts on JP Igloo using a coach (Gordie McKellan) for a summer camp who has been permanently banned by USFS?

[IGLOO]

Lenny, I don’t know both sides of the story about Geordie but I assure you if he was a threat not only would Kerry not have him but don’t you think the law would step in? This guy is harmless from what I see; he didn’t rape or molest anyone. I agree what he did was wrong but remember “you pay for what you get” she’s what 21 now and the young guys are everywhere waiting for her to drop grandpa, It will happen, I’m sure Geordie thinks about it everyday. :frus:

[zenskate]

I've read through this thread with interest and feel that there are some misperceptions of what "harmless" is. As a therapist with over twenty years of experience treating children and adult trauma survivors ,I'd like to add some thoughts. Physical threats and violence are not the only ways perpetrators gain control of their victims. Coaches,teachers, and others in a position of trust and power who chose to victimize, use their positons to gain entry into their victims lives in a more subtle and planful way. The child/adolescent involved does not have the life skills or experience to discriminate that the adult is crossing boundaries, or they feel guilty, in a sense responsible, for the situation . Either way they are being manipulated by the adult. This is never harmless.NEVER. The implied relationship with a coach is one of trust and boudaries- each person is aware of who they are and their role. Violating these boudaries by intoducing a sexual relationship , no matter the age of the student , is changing the nature and intent of the relationship. When the student is a child/adolescent it is a boundary violation that has concurrent long term consequences. These individuals often have difficulty with later relationships and their ability to trust and be intimate. There is nothing harmless about this. No one who has dealt with persons who have been in these situations will tell you that its harmless. The persons who are perpetrators , if they continue to deny that they are accountable for the damage they do , will continue with their pattern. If a coach is dismissed, and continues to coach elsewhere, what will prevent him from seeking another vulnerable person? It is not just about sexuality. It is about abuse of power and trust. How often have you read that a coach/teacher/minister has been charged with sexual abuse, and then found a stream of other victims coming foward? These are patterns that exist. They are not harmless people. They are predators. Denying the harm they are capeable of doing is closing your eyes to the pain and destruction people who engage in this behavior cause. I do not advocate witch hunts, but I do caution responsibility. Responsibility in regarding sanctions by the USFS as important indications of the seriousness of the offense. Responsibility in understanding that the men might stick together and get each other jobs, but it is up to the REAL MEN to regard the truth and say NO! We believe that what happened was wrong. We believe that the USFS has made a decision and we will do the right thing. And if the men can't then maybe the women should. It is about your children. It is not harmless.

[jp1andOnly]

After reading this thread for the last week I can’t help but laugh at the comments made about J.P.Igloo, Shantell, and Kerry. To set the story straight I’ll waist a little of my time with you underachievers.

J.P.Igloo like most (one owner rinks) the Igloo is and has been for sale for a few years now, the owner is looking to move up north with her kids. The rink is running on ALL cylinders and would make absolutely no sense in shutting it down, but who knows.

Shantell (Tilley) is great! Don’t spread rumors about someone like this. Shantell is a healthy, hardworking, and vary disciplined skater with outstanding parents, trust me I know them all vary well. I envy her work ethics, and so should you!

And for Kerry, I’m not familiar with what he did (slapping a male student). I’m sure he wishes he could take it back, heck if Shantells partner mouthed off to her I’d slap him myself, but he wouldn’t because they have one of the best coaches in the world and he teaches discipline. Some say Kerry’s too hard on the kids, JUST ASK THE KIDS they will tell you otherwise, some kids are weaker then others and can’t handle a professional training atmosphere like the one built by Kerry and his team here in Florida.

And for you threatening to go to the media, what are you waiting for, or have you tried. ;)


Ummmm..if you ask a loit of Kerry's former students in Canada you'll know exactly what they think of him. And lets just say the majority isn't very nice

[oldtimersk8s]

...........

[Skatewind]

After reading this thread for the last week I can’t help but laugh at the comments made about J.P.Igloo, Shantell, and Kerry. To set the story straight I’ll waist a little of my time with you underachievers.
One does have to laugh along with an overachiever such as yourself when you're willing to waist your time with the underachievers. Maybe you can share with us some more overachieving wisdom like “you pay for what you get”. The parents of these girls paid a coach to teach their children to skate & he abused the girls instead. You've made it sound like this was a complimentary added service instead of a coaching liability & breach of contract.

[celtic]

One does have to laugh along with an overachiever such as yourself when you're willing to waist your time with the underachievers.

I had to laugh, too. I like Igloo's personality even though I might disagree with the posts, but I am amused that someone who considers himself superior enough to label others as underachievers cannot spell or use even the most basic grammatical rules. Maybe Igloo is too busy learning to be a super-achiever skater to achieve an education? :lol:

[celtic]

I've read through this thread with interest and feel that there are some misperceptions of what "harmless" is. As a therapist with over twenty years of experience treating children and adult trauma survivors ,I'd like to add some thoughts. Physical threats and violence are not the only ways perpetrators gain control of their victims. Coaches,teachers, and others in a position of trust and power who chose to victimize, use their positons to gain entry into their victims lives in a more subtle and planful way. The child/adolescent involved does not have the life skills or experience to discriminate that the adult is crossing boundaries, or they feel guilty, in a sense responsible, for the situation . Either way they are being manipulated by the adult. This is never harmless.NEVER. The implied relationship with a coach is one of trust and boudaries- each person is aware of who they are and their role. Violating these boudaries by intoducing a sexual relationship , no matter the age of the student , is changing the nature and intent of the relationship. When the student is a child/adolescent it is a boundary violation that has concurrent long term consequences. These individuals often have difficulty with later relationships and their ability to trust and be intimate. There is nothing harmless about this. No one who has dealt with persons who have been in these situations will tell you that its harmless. The persons who are perpetrators , if they continue to deny that they are accountable for the damage they do , will continue with their pattern. If a coach is dismissed, and continues to coach elsewhere, what will prevent him from seeking another vulnerable person? It is not just about sexuality. It is about abuse of power and trust. How often have you read that a coach/teacher/minister has been charged with sexual abuse, and then found a stream of other victims coming foward? These are patterns that exist. They are not harmless people. They are predators. Denying the harm they are capeable of doing is closing your eyes to the pain and destruction people who engage in this behavior cause. I do not advocate witch hunts, but I do caution responsibility. Responsibility in regarding sanctions by the USFS as important indications of the seriousness of the offense. Responsibility in understanding that the men might stick together and get each other jobs, but it is up to the REAL MEN to regard the truth and say NO! We believe that what happened was wrong. We believe that the USFS has made a decision and we will do the right thing. And if the men can't then maybe the women should. It is about your children. It is not harmless.

I thank you for this post! It says what I have tried to say so many times, and the pro-Gordie people refuse to acknowledge the truth here! I have spoken to therapists and counselors, and a psychologist about this and they same exactly what you are saying. In fact, when I ask them if it matters about the sickening comment by so many that "he didn't do anything illegal", they say, to a person, that this has nothing to do with the situation, it is not about legal or illegal, but A VIOLATION OF A POSITION OF TRUST BETWEEN A PERSON IN AUTHORITY AND A STUDENT, regardless of age, regardless of the law in a particular state, and regardless of college student-professor, college athlete-coach, high school student-teacher, etc. The blurring of these lines between an authority figure and student is very dangerous. The psychologist even advised that the young lady in question will have trouble in other relationships throughout her life if the damage from this event isn't addressed through counseling. And I would like to add that most states have clauses for abuse of trust in their laws on statutory rape and sexual relationships between student/coach, up to the age of 18 for the victim, even if the general age of consent is much lower. In Texas, unfortunately, the position of trust restriction is very small: clergy and health professionals I believe. I think it's time that law was changed.

Finally, this didn't happen between two consenting adults. Zen, I'm sure you would agree that the definition of adolescent includes people up to the age of 20 or 21.
This creep, and he is a slimy creep who wants control over young girls for his sexual gratification, has done much more than engage in sex with a young woman, She was his student, and he has inflicted great emotional damage on her, which will become evident as the years go by.

If the buddies, like Leitch, of these creeps want to ignore all this, and the Club President at the Igloo rink, maybe they should endure some pretty tough media scrutiny, and not just the posts on a discussion board.

[leafericson]

Igloo,
What you mean about the slapping of kids. Do you condone slapping other parents children?
Did that coach slap the Shantell's partner, too? That sentance doesn't make sense. Can you please clarify?

[roogu]

This thread is still going?!?!!?! geez!!! lol

[Lenny2]

Igloo,
What you mean about the slapping of kids. Do you condone slapping other parents children?
Did that coach slap the Shantell's partner, too? That sentance doesn't make sense. Can you please clarify?


I believe Igloo is referring to the fact the Kerry Leitch hit a male pair skater for saying something rude to his female partner, both of whom were Leitch's students. This occurred in Canada and did not involve Shantell and Jeremy, Leitch's current junior pair national gold medalists. I believe that Igloo was saying that he/she thinks that it is ok for a coach to strike a male skater who is using rude language to his female partner and that he/she would do the same thing to Jeremy if Jeremy spoke rudely to Shantell. Igloo, please correct me if I have misunderstood your post.

[leafericson]

Thanks Lenny2 . I was confused I thought Igloo was trying to say that he hit Jeremy. Now I understand, so....she/he meant it was o.k. for the coach to still hit a skater if the spoke rudely to the girl. Not that he did, Of course.
Thanks for making that clear.

[tjsk8]

It is very interesting that the "celebrity camps" link has now disappeared off the JP Igloo website. I just viewed it last week. We have been hearing rumors for years that JP Igloo was being sold, and, most recently, we have heard that it had been sold and was going to be torn down and turned into a recreational vehicle sales park, but the deal fell through. (RVs frequently are sold from the parking lot of the rink--this rink is in a community where many retirees live.) Regardless of whether this particular rumor is true, I am quite certain that the rink is for sale and that the rink has not made money in the past few years. We have also heard (again, don't know if this is true or not) that Kerry Leitch has his house on the market, as do some of the families of his students. The Southwest Florida Figure Skating Club is supposed to host a Future Champions Series event in September, but the application is not out yet. Of course, it is still a bit early, so we can't say whether that will go through or not. Their website, www.swffc.org, still says that the application is coming soon.

I have been reading these postings for quite sometime and I think that the rumors that get started are getting out of hand... I personally asked kerry if he was moving and if his house is on the market and he said "NO... I quess you read this on line and I'm suppose to be moving to dallas right!!!! "(laughing) Well he is not moving to dallas or anywhere else. Celtic you seem to be one of those typical skating mothers that have nothing else better to do than sit at the rink and gossip about everyone, and now you are going to be lashing out a ME for saying it, just to start some more s--t. Everyone has there own opinon but you seem to want everyone to share in yours and if they don't they are a thorn in your side. I find that some of these conversations are childish and that the only reason that this conversation about gordie is still going is because of you. You always have to have the last word about it. YES he was wrong and if it is such a problem for you (for someone who doesn't even have anything to do with JP Igloo, and probably doesn't even live in florida) then quit winning about it on here and go to the local papers... Several people have mentioned it but it seems that they have the time to b--ch about it here but don't have time to contact the news media. There are alot of people that know about gordie, stuff like this spreads fast as everything else does in these rinks. I am a skating mom but I can't stand to sit and listen to the crap that goes on at the rinks because of the mothers that gossip. As someone else said the "banned coach" article was in the skating magazine, don't you think that the kids and parents already know about gordie or do you think they don't read. But you keep insisting that NO one knows about him at JP Igloo. Are you saying everyone is nieve. I agree with everything that "JPIGLOO" said "you are beating a dead horse",but that is why we have the gossip mothers at the rink. Ya know people still go to church even though Priests have done the same thing as gordie but most of them are doing it to boys..... So should we not trust every priest? How do you know yours hasn't done something wrong and he just hasn't been caught? Heck male and female teachers do it... Are you going to stop them from teaching? Do you do a check on every teacher your child has? My point is that to keep going on and on about the gordie thing is not accomplishing anything, because if it was it would have already. Again Yes gordie is and was wrong but there is nothing you can do about it, and don't think for ONE second that the parents and kids at JP Igloo are clueless because they probably know more about what goes on in the skating world then you because of the coaching staff and national and international skaters that train there and the ones that come to visit.

[Skatewind]

Interesting post. Except there are lots of people like me who aren't skating mothers sitting at the rink gossiping who are very interested in the topic too, for other reasons. It looks like the rumor that Leitch's house is on the market came from someone in your area in FL, & it was also qualified by "we don't know if this is true or not". And where was it specified that Kerry Leitch was moving to Dallas?

It's accurate to say there are going to be a significant number of skaters in any given town who will have no idea about the McKellen (or any other coach) ban. And there will also be some who do know about it. However, parents (collectively as a group, not just the rink insiders) should be able to make informed decisions. If nothing else, keeping this topic active allows more & more parents to read it & have access to the information.

[WeBeEducated]

:roll: If it is true that the skaters and parents at JPIgloo
"know all about Gordie"
then why are they actively supporting him by indicating that they are happy to have him at their rink????

Why would they choose to have their daughters knowingly in the presence of a man the USFSA banned due to his inappropriate behavior with young female skaters???

Why would they knowingly agree to use a coach who is guilty of predatory behavior toward minors? who lied to a girl's parents and took her to a hotel after a competition?

If they are able to overlook this, what else are they willing to expose their children to, knowingly, willingly, in the name of figure skating lessons????

And if they do in fact know all about it and are willing to hire an adult that has a history of unethical behavior toward minors then they deserve to be criticisized for their irresponsible behavior.
It wont be overlooked by most sane people, so they should be prepared for the fallout.

[Lenny2]

tjsk8, we welcome your accurate, inside information. No need for hostility here. I did not intend to spread incorrect rumors--as I said in my post, the rumors about JP Igloo being sold and closed down have been going on for years and I have no way to know the accuracy of those rumors. If you can confirm or deny the information, please do. I don't really listen to the rumors about Igloo anymore, but, most recently, I have been hearing them more and more. Another post from someone at Igloo states that it is true that the rink is for sale and has been for some time, so it appears that the rumors are not entirely unfounded.

Regarding your suggestion that everyone already knows about Gordie and his history, well, maybe that is true of the kids who skate regularly at Igloo, but, as I said previously, the Igloo camp will draw kids from all over central Florida and it is unrealistic to suggest that most people will know about Gordie's history just from a small article in the Skating magazine that appeared years ago. Think about it--you see those little postings in the magazine now and then and, if you don't already know the person in the posting, the information goes in one ear and out the other. Most people would not remember this information simply from that little article.

My point is that most people would trust a world class coach like Kerry Leitch to bring in other appropriate coaches to his camp, and I don't think that a coach who has been banned from USFS could fit that description. What if the camp description posted next to Gordie's name "(Permanently Banned from US Figure Skating)"? How many people do you think would want to work with him? It's just not right to bring him to a camp like this. If Kerry Leitch wants to bring him to work with his own students, he should talk to the parents and let them make the decision about whether they are ok with it. A camp situation is not right for this.

[tjsk8]

Yes, parents should make informed decisions, and obtaining information solely from a message board does not always guarantee accurate and objective facts. It is impossible to make an informed decision based on a message board. Facts may be verified by checking with USFS and PSA to obtain disciplinary action records. Although we all agree that a lapse in ethics occured with Gordie regarding the student/coach relationship, there are many of us who feel the facts have been embellished with emotion of all parties, no matter which side of the fence you sit on and whether or not you were directly involved or are merely repeating what you heard several times removed. If you look at previous threads on other boards you will find a lot of misinformation posted about this case. Parties with no knowledge of the facts can and will be swayed depending on whom they believe on these boards. I still do not have an opinion on the Illinois situation because I have heard so many versions and embellishments from people I do not know; things are often blown up. If anyone knows the ladies who were supposedly harmed in Illinois, they should be the ones willing to post here and give their version. It would carry more credibility than the speculation I have read here. There is a perfect example of rumors starting with another coach I know who had vicious rumors started about him by a disgruntled parent; word is out of things people believed he did which were improper. However, the mother later recanted and admitted she was upset with him and made it up, but there are still other coaches and judges who believe the rumor and don't know she recanted. It can be very dangerous, people, to believe everything you hear, especially in the skating world. Do your own investigation even if it means calling the accused yourself. And if you have concerns and decide to go with this coach or any other, for that matter, keep a close eye on your children and keep the communication open, which you should be doing anyway. It is up to each individual parent to decide whether to let their children take from a coach, and they should not be bashed for their reasons. Many have said all they can say here; it is time to move on.


Well Said Earlyriser, you are right about embellishment, and that is how a sentence someone says turns into 3 paragraphs. And for what ever reason a parent chooses to interpret any situation should be there decision.

[tjsk8]

Interesting post. Except there are lots of people like me who aren't skating mothers sitting at the rink gossiping who are very interested in the topic too, for other reasons. It looks like the rumor that Leitch's house is on the market came from someone in your area in FL, & it was also qualified by "we don't know if this is true or not". And where was it specified that Kerry Leitch was moving to Dallas?

It's accurate to say there are going to be a significant number of skaters in any given town who will have no idea about the McKellen (or any other coach) ban. And there will also be some who do know about it. However, parents (collectively as a group, not just the rink insiders) should be able to make informed decisions. If nothing else, keeping this topic active allows more & more parents to read it & have access to the information.

I don't know where the dallas thing came from either that is just what he said to me, I haven't read anything here about him moving to dallas,only that his house was up for sale. Yes you are right that there will be skaters and parents that don't know but you know as well as I that if there is a new coach or even a new skater that comes to a rink SOMEONE will know all about that person and it will spread like wild fire. Parents that are not rink insiders (as you said) will still hear, I don't sit in the gossip groups (I do socialize with the ladies but not when the gossip is the subject) and I still hear about a new skater or coach from my daughter, without her being opiononated and that is really all that I need to know. I don't want to know any other personal stuff about people, if there is something bad about a coach believe me the skaters will know. By keeping this topic alive the way is has been going, is a disaster because there is too much speculation.

[Skatewind]

Yes, parents should make informed decisions, and obtaining information solely from a message board does not always guarantee accurate and objective facts. It is impossible to make an informed decision based on a message board.
I have at no time suggested that any parent obtain information solely from a message board, or that message boards always guarantee accurate & objective facts. What the message board does do, however, is make the information available in a public forum. Any information reviewed can then be fact checked by the reader but at least they have gotten it. And this is certainly more than many parents are getting from some coaches & rinks about these situations. The message board is a resource available that can be used to gain information when those who have the responsibility have failed to disclose.

[Skatewind]

Yes you are right that there will be skaters and parents that don't know but you know as well as I that if there is a new coach or even a new skater that comes to a rink SOMEONE will know all about that person and it will spread like wild fire. Parents that are not rink insiders (as you said) will still hear, I don't sit in the gossip groups (I do socialize with the ladies but not when the gossip is the subject) and I still hear about a new skater or coach from my daughter, without her being opiononated and that is really all that I need to know. I don't want to know any other personal stuff about people, if there is something bad about a coach believe me the skaters will know. By keeping this topic alive the way is has been going, is a disaster because there is too much speculation.
I hope I am misreading your intent, but if you are referring to things like child abuse & abuse of authority as the type of personal stuff you don't want to know about, or think it's best to let skaters find out for themselves on their own, then that is very disappointing indeed. There has been some speculation in this topic, just like in the Lowery topic; & at times people have become overly emotional. But all things considered, there are also very helpful links & references that have been shared for people who want to make knowledgeable decisions based on as much information as possible. If the rinks, coaches & professional organizations were being more responsible in this area, we wouldn't have to read about it posted on a message board day after day.

[tjsk8]

I have at no time suggested that any parent obtain information solely from a message board, or that message boards always guarantee accurate & objective facts. What the message board does do, however, is make the information available in a public forum. Any information reviewed can then be fact checked by the reader but at least they have gotten it. And this is certainly more than many parents are getting from some coaches & rinks about these situations. The message board is a resource available that can be used to gain information when those who have the responsibility have failed to disclose.


skatewind I am not accusing you of giving inaccurate info, my posting was my opionon and I don't mean to sound like I am picking on anyone, I am just saying that to much speculation is going on and only the parties involved can really say for sure what really happened. If gordies partner is looking at these postings don't you think that all this could be mentaly harmful to her, she is not going to come out and say anything on this forum either, Why would she? I wouldn't want anyone talking about me if that was to happen or to my daughter.

[tjsk8]

I hope I am misreading your intent, but if you are referring to things like child abuse & abuse of authority as the type of personal stuff you don't want to know about, or think it's best to let skaters find out for themselves on their own, then that is very disappointing indeed. There has been some speculation in this topic, just like in the Lowery topic; & at times people have become overly emotional. But all things considered, there are also very helpful links & references that have been shared for people who want to make knowledgeable decisions based on as much information as possible. If the rinks, coaches & professional organizations were being more responsible in this area, we wouldn't have to read about it posted on a message board day after day.


I am NOT suggesting that child abuse and or abuse of authority is personal stuff I don't want to know about. I don't consider that personal because it is criminal and available to the public. I agree with you and never said that people shouldn't be aware, because they should but only the facts not what someone says they heard. Why doesn't someone like yourself who has been involved with this topic for a while post a new link that has an article or several articles about it so if people on this site would like to know about gordie than they can read it instead of it being hear say. Gordie did a terrible thing and if it was my daughter I would hate (and be devisated)for this to be circulating the way it is. Everyone needs to have some respect for the girl, lady now. Also yes JP Igloo is up for sale, but kerry isn't moving.

[Skatewind]

skatewind I am not accusing you of giving inaccurate info, my posting was my opionon and I don't mean to sound like I am picking on anyone, I am just saying that to much speculation is going on and only the parties involved can really say for sure what really happened. If gordies partner is looking at these postings don't you think that all this could be mentaly harmful to her, she is not going to come out and say anything on this forum either, Why would she? I wouldn't want anyone talking about me if that was to happen or to my daughter.
I was responding to a post by EarlyRiser, as noted, so I guess I don't understand why you (tjsk8) are answering it this way or what all these other things have to do with talking publicly about grievances & bannings. Yes, it is unfortunate the girl is involved in the discussion at all because she is a victim in all this. But again it wouldn't be an everyday discussion issue if people weren't trying to cover up, look the other way, & there was full disclosure to the unsuspecting parents & skaters; or if the coach decided to be responsible & find a new profession that didn't involve underage skaters.

[Skatewind]

Why doesn't someone like yourself who has been involved with this topic for a while post a new link that has an article or several articles about it so if people on this site would like to know about gordie than they can read it instead of it being hear say.
Because only a few links remain accessible online, & the USFS information regarding the banning of coaches is printed in the SKATING magazine but is not online. It can only be shared by people communicating the information back & forth, such as has been done here.

[stepfordmom]

I have been reading these posts for awhile also.They go on and on with good purpose. I come from Canada, I know alot of Mr. Leitch's past. I know how it is and how you do what you are told. He is a great coach when he is happy. I know he is usually right about most things,TOO! (His new wife is also very nice)...BUT... I have to ask tjsk8 who sounds very close to Mr. Leitch, which tells me you will do almost anything, and say anything, to get ahead with him. It has happened here in Canada. I ask you this...do you think it is fair that Gordie come to the iglo? I was wondering, it sounds as if you have a boy who skates. EH? Nobody in their right mind (just a play on words) would say it is ok, harmless for a man with a reputation like Gordies to come to their rink unless there was no worry about their own child. If you had a teen age girl I bet you would feel differently. I am betting you have a boy skater and I ask you this, how would you feel if it were a man with a reputation like D. Lowery coming to your rink who is in trouble about 15 and 16 year old boys!

How would you sleep at night if something happened to one of the girls because of Gordie meeting them in the camp in that club down the road???
I bet the club president would be involved then. If I were club president though and said anything negative about Mr.Leitch's choice I wouldn't be club president for long, that I know!

How can you ask if there are any articles about Gordie? To believe this or not. Go to the Dallas Morning News and go to archives pay $7.00 and you will find two articles all about it.
Sad part about this whole Gordie thing, going to the Iglo I am betting again Mr. Leitch never thought people would find out the rot about him. And if they did, he would have them under such control that nobody would have the nerve to talk about it if they did. If they knew they would just take your type of attitude tjsk8.
I am also knowing that most parents will watch their girls during the camp and not take lessons from Gordie and just wait for it to be all over. Hoping he doesn't come back next year. Out of respect to Mr. Leitch, not much will be said, but all parents will be aware, just quiet.Things don't change that much. But you can't stop people from having their own opinions on a forum.

[stepfordmom]

Here is one article that can prove something really did happen tjsk8 you asked for it so here is one article. Now you won't have to pay $7.00.


Figure skating bans Hall of Fame coach
North Texan cited for 'unethical' behavior

By CATHY HARASTA Staff Writer
Published October 13, 2001
Click here to go back to results.



The U.S. Figure Skating Association has permanently banned Hall of Famer Gordon McKellen Jr. from its membership, according to the November issue of Skating magazine - the USFSA's official publication.
The magazine notice said McKellen - a 1972 Olympian who coached in North Texas for the last five years - failed to respond to a grievance filed in February that alleged he violated the USFSA's ethics code by "engaging in unethical and unprofessional behavior while coaching a student."
The notice did not disclose the identity of the student.
"The procedures were followed under the USFSA bylaws and grievance procedures," USFSA spokesman Bob Dunlop said. "Gordon was asked to respond, and did not respond. I can't give details of the grievance itself."
Former Olympic skater Tonya Harding is believed to be the only other person banned for life from USFSA membership.
McKellen, 48, said he did not wish to comment on the ban on Friday. He left Polar Ice in Grapevine in February, saying he wanted to pursue "other things."
He coached rising skaters, including former Coppell High student Lisa Nesuda, 18, to the junior national silver medal in 2000 and to an 11th-place finish in the senior division of the 2001 U.S. Championships in January.
McKellen, a three-time national champion and U.S. Figure Skating Hall of Famer, settled in North Texas in 1996 and coached at the Dr Pepper-StarCenter in Irving before moving to Polar Ice in late 1999.
"I want to commend the USFSA for looking out for the professionalism of the relationship between coaches and students," said Laura Nesuda, Lisa's mother. "This, unfortunately, is more widespread in all sports than is realized."



Unfortunately names are mentioned in this but you wanted to see concrete evidence that this stuff is true and did happen.
Gordies pursuing other things is working in a womens shoe department putting shoes on and off womens feet all day long.

[what?meworry?]

stepfordmom has made an extremely important post here.

herein lies the "scream" of the depth of the damage done.
a promising young female skater seduced and manipulated.
openly and obviously to traveling competitors.
in the usfsa magazine there was a tiny box that no one can access easily (oct 2001 issue of skating magazine). why is no such documentation available on the website? or at least by email request?

parents entrust the well-being of their children, male and female, to a competitive coach.
they have a right to know if that coach has been banned by usfsa.
they may choose to go ahead and enlist the services of the coach anyway---such as the pairs team who work with ---well not reeeealy (wink, wink, nod, nod) bob young, another banned coach. the team still gets usfsa funding (for real!) even though he is banned and thereby profits from usfsa funding even though he is banned by usfsa! huh?

it is beyond comprehension to me that ANY rink would promote gordie in any capacity. so the guy only has one way to make a living. but at least the parents of the skaters have a right to know that he was banned by usfsa and the circumstances of the grievance that resulted in the banning.

this verbal intercourse is approaching the absurd. if the coach is banned by usfsa, that information should be easily available to the parents so that they can make that "informed choice."

and if the coach's situation can't stand the scrutiny of such circumstances, well, so be it!

he can either find other employment or coach adults or work staff.

he otta thought about that before he acted.

[SkateFan123]

from another poster

"this verbal intercourse is approaching the absurd. if the coach is banned by usfsa, that information should be easily available to the parents so that they can make that "informed choice."



That I agree with statement totally! I think everyone needs to remember that internet information on threads like this is often passionate and could be true or not true.

Obviously, the USFS banned this coach for a reason. All details are not known to the public. This is true.

The parents at JP Igloo are aware of this. Their reasons for supporting his attending the summer camp are their own reasons. The parents are not blind to the fact that this coach is banned from the USFS. While some may not agree with this, it is the choice of those parents.

Each of us would handle things differently. If I had a young child attending that camp, I'd insist on monitoring the situation very carefully. The parents at the rink will be doing that too.

It baffles me why the club would want to sponsor an event with a banned coach. However, they have their reasons. They certainly know the coach has been banned.

My question is that since usually, these camps hold a gala at the end of the camp, would the USFS sanction the gala? If not, wouldn't skaters appearing in a non-sanctioned event have problems with the USFS as a result of this?

[Krammer]

I don't know where the dallas thing came from either that is just what he said to me, I haven't read anything here about him moving to dallas,only that his house was up for sale. .

His step daughter is married to a former Boston Bruins player who was recently traded to Dallas

[Krammer]

(His new wife is also very nice)....


Nit picking, I know...but I can't help it, sorry. They been married 15 years, she not really NEW, per-say. ;) His first wife is super nice, too!

[leafericson]

The U.S. Figure Skating Association has permanently banned Hall of Famer Gordon McKellen Jr. from its membership, according to the November issue of Skating magazine - the USFSA's official publication.
The magazine notice said McKellen - a 1972 Olympian who coached in North Texas for the last five years - failed to respond to a grievance filed in February that alleged he violated the USFSA's ethics code by "engaging in unethical and unprofessional behavior while coaching a student."
The notice did not disclose the identity of the student.
"The procedures were followed under the USFSA bylaws and grievance procedures," USFSA spokesman Bob Dunlop said. "Gordon was asked to respond, and did not respond. I can't give details of the grievance itself."
Former Olympic skater Tonya Harding is believed to be the only other person banned for life from USFSA membership.
McKellen, 48, said he did not wish to comment on the ban on Friday. He left Polar Ice in Grapevine in February, saying he wanted to pursue "other things."
He coached rising skaters, ......

.

I would like to hear from pro-gordie- tjtjsk8, igloo, etc. legitimate opinions now that this article has come to light.

I am sure this must have been a huge sad scandal at the time. Must have opened up into a huge disaster. Why would he change and ruin everything good going in all these different people's lives?
Why would KL hire him in to the camp, advertising a banned usfs coach with all of the great coaches out there? Obviously no big deal to KL?
It gives me the idea, seeing this type of endorsment, that he doesn't respect the USFS opinion on major decisions.

[tjsk8]

I have been reading these posts for awhile also.They go on and on with good purpose. I come from Canada, I know alot of Mr. Leitch's past. I know how it is and how you do what you are told. He is a great coach when he is happy. I know he is usually right about most things,TOO! (His new wife is also very nice)...BUT... I have to ask tjsk8 who sounds very close to Mr. Leitch, which tells me you will do almost anything, and say anything, to get ahead with him. It has happened here in Canada. I ask you this...do you think it is fair that Gordie come to the iglo? I was wondering, it sounds as if you have a boy who skates. EH? Nobody in their right mind (just a play on words) would say it is ok, harmless for a man with a reputation like Gordies to come to their rink unless there was no worry about their own child. If you had a teen age girl I bet you would feel differently. I am betting you have a boy skater and I ask you this, how would you feel if it were a man with a reputation like D. Lowery coming to your rink who is in trouble about 15 and 16 year old boys!

How would you sleep at night if something happened to one of the girls because of Gordie meeting them in the camp in that club down the road???
I bet the club president would be involved then. If I were club president though and said anything negative about Mr.Leitch's choice I wouldn't be club president for long, that I know!

How can you ask if there are any articles about Gordie? To believe this or not. Go to the Dallas Morning News and go to archives pay $7.00 and you will find two articles all about it.
Sad part about this whole Gordie thing, going to the Iglo I am betting again Mr. Leitch never thought people would find out the rot about him. And if they did, he would have them under such control that nobody would have the nerve to talk about it if they did. If they knew they would just take your type of attitude tjsk8.
I am also knowing that most parents will watch their girls during the camp and not take lessons from Gordie and just wait for it to be all over. Hoping he doesn't come back next year. Out of respect to Mr. Leitch, not much will be said, but all parents will be aware, just quiet.Things don't change that much. But you can't stop people from having their own opinions on a forum.


Alot of coaches are great when they are happy. First of all I have a 15 year old daughter that skates and second I know all about gordie because we are from texas. Thirdly I don't know kerry closely, I just know him. We are going to be training at jp igloo and as far as gordie being there, I can't stop him AND my daughter WON'T be taking lessons from him. My whole point on this is that there is a lot of complaining and there is nothing that the people who are complanining can do. I never said anywhere that I agree with him COACHING anywhere, see again this is where the sentence gets turned aroung and turns into a paragraph. I said that he was wrong for what he did but all this forum kept talking about is how the parents at jp igloo don't know, and that how someone should go to the media since it has been mentioned several times, and that they have time to complain here so why don't they complain to the media. Apparently you can't read stepfordmom because I never said anything about there not being any articles about gordie either because I know there a quite a few, so intead of bashing me for making my opionon (as I stated I was doing in my very first post) public JUST LIKE YOU HAVE MADE YOURS, why don't you go to the media if you are so concered about it, you talk about how would I feel if something happened to one of the girls well how would you feel, you know about him and have read the articles, so why do you take it upon yourself and contact the papers. And as far as my attitude (as you call it) why don't you do a back ground check on every single teacher in your childs school and also one on your priest or why not everyone that lives around you so that you can be aware and alert everyone about what they did wrong. AGAIN I don't agree with what gordie did and my daughter won't take lessons from him but either tell the media or get off it. And one more thing, since you said you are from canada and know leitch and his wife then I take it that your daughter must have skated at his rink. If so I bet you didn't mind him coaching your child!!!!!!!!!!!

[tjsk8]

I was responding to a post by EarlyRiser, as noted, so I guess I don't understand why you (tjsk8) are answering it this way or what all these other things have to do with talking publicly about grievances & bannings. Yes, it is unfortunate the girl is involved in the discussion at all because she is a victim in all this. But again it wouldn't be an everyday discussion issue if people weren't trying to cover up, look the other way, & there was full disclosure to the unsuspecting parents & skaters; or if the coach decided to be responsible & find a new profession that didn't involve underage skaters.


Sorry just wasn't paying attention to the name.

[tjsk8]

stepfordmom has made an extremely important post here.

herein lies the "scream" of the depth of the damage done.
a promising young female skater seduced and manipulated.
openly and obviously to traveling competitors.
in the usfsa magazine there was a tiny box that no one can access easily (oct 2001 issue of skating magazine). why is no such documentation available on the website? or at least by email request?

parents entrust the well-being of their children, male and female, to a competitive coach.
they have a right to know if that coach has been banned by usfsa.
they may choose to go ahead and enlist the services of the coach anyway---such as the pairs team who work with ---well not reeeealy (wink, wink, nod, nod) bob young, another banned coach. the team still gets usfsa funding (for real!) even though he is banned and thereby profits from usfsa funding even though he is banned by usfsa! huh?

it is beyond comprehension to me that ANY rink would promote gordie in any capacity. so the guy only has one way to make a living. but at least the parents of the skaters have a right to know that he was banned by usfsa and the circumstances of the grievance that resulted in the banning.

this verbal intercourse is approaching the absurd. if the coach is banned by usfsa, that information should be easily available to the parents so that they can make that "informed choice."

and if the coach's situation can't stand the scrutiny of such circumstances, well, so be it!

he can either find other employment or coach adults or work staff.

he otta thought about that before he acted.



I agree, the USFSA should post it on there site. Gordie shouldn't be allowed to coach but the USFSA obviously isn't that concerned. So everyone can argue as much as they like but unless the media in florida is notified nothing is going to happen. This forum isn't going to keep leitch from having gordie at the camp.

[tjsk8]

His step daughter is married to a former Boston Bruins player who was recently traded to Dallas


Yes I know that, I quess that's why he asked me "I quess you heard that I was moving to dallas also".

[tjsk8]

I would like to hear from pro-gordie- tjtjsk8, igloo, etc. legitimate opinions now that this article has come to light.

I am sure this must have been a huge sad scandal at the time. Must have opened up into a huge disaster. Why would he change and ruin everything good going in all these different people's lives?
Why would KL hire him in to the camp, advertising a banned usfs coach with all of the great coaches out there? Obviously no big deal to KL?
It gives me the idea, seeing this type of endorsment, that he doesn't respect the USFS opinion on major decisions.


Why am I considered pro-gordie, I never said that I liked him, never said that he did nothing wrong, never said that people should leave him alone, ALL i said is that this forum isn't going to change KL from having gordie there and for everyone to complain on here isn't doing any good.

[Skatewind]

Sorry just wasn't paying attention to the name.
OK, thanks. The reason I asked is because it looked like someone was posting under a pseudo-name, & EarlyRiser & tjsk8 were the same poster.

I would say that if even there are a handful of parents in FL who didn't know about McKellen but who have now read this topic & have the information they need to prevent another such incident, then it has been worthwhile. I'm sure it would be much easier to simply not sign up for lessons with him at the camp, compared to signing up & then finding out too late & trying to cancel if the lessons with him are being promoted by the skating director.

[stepfordmom]

Lenny, I don’t know both sides of the story about Geordie but I assure you if he was a threat not only would Kerry not have him but don’t you think the law would step in? This guy is harmless from what I see; he didn’t rape or molest anyone. I agree what he did was wrong but remember “you pay for what you get” she’s what 21 now and the young guys are everywhere waiting for her to drop grandpa, It will happen, I’m sure Geordie thinks about it everyday. :frus:

TJSK8 please take it easy I am not bashing anyone. You sounded like you have a boy. I'm sorry for presuming. I just never dreamed a mother of a girl would feel like you do.
You said in your post prior to this, that you agreed with everything Igloo said.
I naturally understood this to mean it would be ok for your daughter to be in Gordies teaching environment since Kerry was having him in.
You said your daughter won't take from him, but she will be! That does put your daughter in his teaching environment because as all Mr. Leitch's camps go he will have her in groups with Gordie those days, the whole 3 days for at least 2-3 hours at a time. So the only way your daughter won't take from him, or be in contact with him is not to do the camp at all. If I remember how Mr. Leitch does camps, that means she won't be able to do the mini competition or the show that follows. She will be isolated from all the other events unless she does the camp.

Now you see I also never said anything about "not minding Mr. Leitch (and team) coaching my daughter then". My post was about Gordie coming in, in Canada he never had someone like Gordie in to a camp to worry about. That is what upset me. Simply with all the great coaches ...why a banned coach?

[WeBeEducated]

Nobody should be forced to identify themselves on this forum. If that were the case all our names would be attached to every post in order to validate our opinions! That isn't the point and the poster who insists that a person with a strong opinion on this topic must be "hiding" something and should openly identify themselves is simply wrong.

As for the "success" of the young woman...well, as far as I know she is just a college student, dependent financially on others, living with an old man who was deemed unworthy by his peers of membership in the national skating organization, and still mad at her mom for not accepting the fact that she is "in love" with a predator!!!!!
The fact that the father is friendly with the old man who screwed his teenage daughter is rather shocking .

[tjsk8]

TJSK8 please take it easy I am not bashing anyone. You sounded like you have a boy. I'm sorry for presuming. I just never dreamed a mother of a girl would feel like you do.
You said in your post prior to this, that you agreed with everything Igloo said.
I naturally understood this to mean it would be ok for your daughter to be in Gordies teaching environment since Kerry was having him in.
You said your daughter won't take from him, but she will be! That does put your daughter in his teaching environment because as all Mr. Leitch's camps go he will have her in groups with Gordie those days, the whole 3 days for at least 2-3 hours at a time. So the only way your daughter won't take from him, or be in contact with him is not to do the camp at all. If I remember how Mr. Leitch does camps, that means she won't be able to do the mini competition or the show that follows. She will be isolated from all the other events unless she does the camp.


Now you see I also never said anything about "not minding Mr. Leitch (and team) coaching my daughter then". My post was about Gordie coming in, in Canada he never had someone like Gordie in to a camp to worry about. That is what upset me. Simply with all the great coaches ...why a banned coach?


stefordmon I understand you were upset and as you see your post got me upset, you are probably right about the group lesson's and I would be okay with that, I just won't do the one on one lesson. And yes KL would probably not let her skate in the show at the end so this is something I will have to deal with when time comes. I think that if this had happened to gordie when KL was still at his rink in canada, he would have invited him there. This is kerry's friend and you stick by your friends when they need you, yes again what he did was very wrong but everyone has done something, sometime in there life that they regreted and you still (not you inperticular) have friends. Friends are there to help you when times are bad and they are there for you when times are great and that's how it should be. I'm sure that kerry doesn't agree with what gordie did but they are friends. I am sure that kerry also wouldn't want to risk his position as a world renowned coach if he thought that gordie wouldn't be on his best behavior. I just think that bashing the parents at jp igloo isn't right and everyone should be able to raise there child in the way they see fit. Just like politics you can't change a democrate's thinking and you can't change republican's thinking, so why bash parent's for doing something that you may not agree with.
I know you didn't mention kl teaching your daughter (team) that's why I mentioned it, because you seemed to have knowledge of his coaching way's and unless you were around him you wouldn't know.

[SkateFan123]

Nobody should be forced to identify themselves on this forum. If that were the case all our names would be attached to every post in order to validate our opinions! That isn't the point and the poster who insists that a person with a strong opinion on this topic must be "hiding" something and should openly identify themselves is simply wrong.

As for the "success" of the young woman...well, as far as I know she is just a college student, dependent financially on others, living with an old man who was deemed unworthy by his peers of membership in the national skating organization, and still mad at her mom for not accepting the fact that she is "in love" with a predator!!!!!
The fact that the father is friendly with the old man who screwed his teenage daughter is rather shocking .
If you were the father would you lose your child over her choice of a mate? I wouldn't. Particularly if I thought it was a bad situation. That would make me more determined to have a relationship with my child. For if the relationship ends poorly, my child would need my support all the more.

I will NEVER let anyone become between me and my child.

[WeBeEducated]

WeBe, it does make a difference knowing if the poster is the mother or a bystander who is merely repeating hearsay, true or not. It gives us a perspective of where she is coming from. For those of us who know her and some of the things she has said to us and others, we have a totally different perspective, and as a mother, she WILL have a totally different perspective than those who were more distanced or were not even there. Some of it may be strewn with more emotion and bitterness, some more credible because she was there, but at the same time may be strewn with more embellishment because of her anger that is being directed at not just Gordie but anyone who was ever involved with him or remotely still says they are his friend. Just because her daughter fell in love with someone under questionable circumstances does not make the mother always right or always a victim. It does not make her any more perfect or a better mother than she was before this all happened. It does not change the facts that led her daughter to be vulnerable to the situation or led her daughter to need to get away from her in order to keep her head together enough to concentrate on her skating BEFORE ALL THIS HAPPENED.You weren't there. You didn't see the turmoil the girl was under. Yes, she probably was more vulnerable to Gordie paying attention to her, but she willingly left. She was not coerced, and she was not under some spell. She lived with his family a long time before this happened. He does not go around seeking out girls to be a predator with, regardless of what you say. He fell in love with her; she fell in love with him. We were all shocked that it happened because he did cross the line and he did betray a lot of people in the process. But that does not make him a predator. He was totally truthful when the rink confronted him and realized if he wanted to stay with her that he must resign. I'm sure with the pressure of the breakup of his marriage, the lack of financial stability he was in at the time and the fixation he had on the new relationship he was very confused at the time. Why he chose not to go to the hearing, only he and his lawyer know. We can only speculate.

You are wrong in that the girl does NOT live with Gordie. I do not know her finances, but it is not unusual to get financial support when you are concentrating full time on college. Don't hold that against her. Being "just a college student" looking at a scholarship to a major university is not too shabby, is it? I understand that the mother is still mad at Gordie. But it is not so simple that the young lady is simply mad at her mom for not accepting Gordie. There is a history, and it is not all pleasant. Her father has a right to see the situation as he sees fit too without being judged. We were also shocked when he accepted it so freely, but we are not in his shoes. What are you going to say 10 years from now if they are still together? Still bash the dad for having a relationship with his daughter? Still support the mom for putting more importance on her anger than swallowing her pride for the sake of being able to have a civil relationship with her daughter? Who is the one who eventually loses in this, the mother who stays away by her negative actions or the father who embraces and supports his daughter's right to make her own adult decisions? We may not always agree with our children's decisions, but there comes a point when we have to decide when to set aside the anger in order to get along. All situations are different; this is not a Bob Young or a David Lowery situation, if they are as reported. It was not good at the time, but it has been 3 1/2 years, the girl consented whether or not you agree with Texas law, and Gordie did rightfully get banned according to USFS rules. If a friend or a rink wants to hire him for non-USFS coaching that is their right. It is your right to spread whatever opinions as you see it as you all post here, but stick to the facts. One day your child may be judged by this lady, and she deserves respect and understanding whether or not you think she was right or wrong. There comes a point when this is her personal life and none of anyone's business now. If the mother does not want to identify herself, that is fine, but we who know who she is can see through the misconceptions and embellishments on these posts. She has her cause now but not her daughter. Her loss. For that I am sad.

OH Please! I would love to see Dr.Phil's incredulous face when a bunch of self rightous, misguided, glory seeking skating parents try to BLAME the mother in the McKellen case for a middle aged man abusing his power with a teenage skater. I would love to hear his reaction when these people say we should all forget about it now since all he did was "fall in love" with a teenage skater he was supposed to be coaching. Did he fall in love with her the same way the female teacher fell in love with her teenage student? That teacher is in jail. should schools hire her when she is out??
Afterall, alll she did was fall in love! And the boy "loved" her too-alot. He still thinks she is "special". Should we all just allow any adult who "falls in love" with a willing teen carry on in their positions of authority? Bob Young was no different from Mckellen-dont fool yourself into believing otherwise. He used his status as a popular coach to flirt with teenage skaters he was coaching, he gave special attention, bought gifts, and most importantly, he drove a wedge between the teen and her family. So easy to do when a teen age girl has demands and expectations placed on her by her mom. I can only thank God that no Bob Young or Gordie McKellan was near the rink when my daughter brought out the worst in me when she slacked off on the ice, copped an attitude with me about skating and schoolwork, and mouthed off disrespectfully when I was infuriated by her lack of effort. If an attentive male coach had murmered to my daughter at those times his "sympathy" and his "concern" that I was unfair I can only imagine how easy it would have been for him to create a very unhealthy relationship with her.
Gordie did that. Bob YOung did that. the only difference is that the girl in the Bob Young case was either smarter or more emotiuonally mature-she realized he was using her for his own gratification . LOVE? Tacking that label on his behavior doesnt mean anything to me. It is just a word that does nothing to alleviate his guilt.
If a teacher has sex(secretly) with a student most people would say it indicates a serious problem and the teacher would have a hard time finding a community of people saying "thats ok! you must have been "in love" so we understand and wont make you suffer anymore".
But in the skating community we have too many who are willing to do just that-excuse it, explain it. and forget about it.
If a teen is having problems at home, a "loving" adult doesnt move in to have a sexual relationship with that teen!!!!!!!!
That isnt love.

[Skatewind]

This is bordering on the ridiculous. Now that there is more than one poster here with the opposite view as yours you now think we must be posting under a pseudonym! Since you don't know who we are anyway, what purpose would it serve to have more than one name? Do you honestly think we would fabricate another name to make it look like we are not alone? I am very capable and willing to post my views under one name and don't play those kinds of games. If I am alone in my views, so be it. If I have support, better yet, but that is not why I post here.
It has nothing to do with whether or not you have a different view from mine. If you go back & read the post at the top of page 9, where tjsk8 directly answered something (with my quote) that had been posted by EarlyRiser, I'm sure you can see why anyone might have had such a thought, especially when there have been instances of people posting with pseudo-names on this board. tjsk8 explained it & I explained why I asked, which was a reasonable question considering what was posted. Don't make it to be more than it is. It has nothing to do with more than one person having a differing opinion about the McKellen issue. Read the posts.

Isn't it against the policy of most message boards for people to identify posters by name, without their OK, as you evidently have done on the previous page EarlyRiser? Perhaps you should be more concerned about your own actions before defining what is so ridiculous about my explanatory post.

[celtic]

I have chosen not to reply to a lot of trash posted about me and my opinions, but this has gone too far. Earlyriser has overstepped common decency and sense, and is posting lies. I am close to the mother and was there and continue to be here throughout all this. Please note that the mother and the girl love each other very much. This all began AFTER Gordie became involved!!! Gordie, in the past instances and in this case, became emotionally involved with his victims before any sexual relationship occurred. That is how all predators operate. It is gradual and treacherous: one of the counselors I spoke with said, "these guys are so smooth the girls never see them coming, they operate so smoothly that their victim is in an emotional web before any sexual contact is made."

As for the mother and daughter, they spend time together, they talk on the phone, they go places together, they do love each other.

Earlyriser has an ax to grind and is furious with the mother. Can she be the predator coach's mother??? Let's talk about that "looney" woman! Why is the coach the way he is? Because his father was an alocholic and the mother an interfering, overbearing skate mom? YES! In Lake Placid, years ago, she was hovering all the time, always ready to step in and get her son out of anything! Same now. He lives with her now and where does the girl live? Do you know that, Earlyriser? QUIT TRYING TO BLAME THE MOTHER FOR THIS MAN, WHO EXHIBITED THIS SAME BEHAVIOR FOR YEARS! Go to Rockford, try to get people to talk, I know that story (or those stories, more accurately) very well.

Why is Earlyriser so ready to cast aspersions on the mother unless she lost a lot through this mess? Or is she the judge and the ex-president who supported Gordie through friendship with the coach and his mother?

If you want to throw stones, you better duck!

[Skatewind]

If you don't like the fact Gordie is teaching a few students on the side or going to this camp, you can choose to keep your children away.
You cannot if you do not know. There have been posters here who live where this rink is in FL who have said they did not know about this.
There comes a point when this is her personal life and none of anyone's business now.
I agree there have been many details shared in this thread that I don't want to know & certainly the girl's personal life is her own business. However, implying that this means people should stop discussing or forewarning people about McKellen because it's considered part of the girl's "personal business" now that she is with him is not a logical conclusion. Action was taken against him this time & he has exhibited a pattern of behavior. I hope people will continue to speak out when they see a situation like this where the circumstances might create an atmosphere where the pattern can be continued. Prevention of abuse is everybody's business.

[celtic]

.

[I]I am not self righteous, misguided or glory seeking. I have not blamed the mother. I have pointed out contributory factors in the situation being ripe for this. If you read my posts you will see that I NEVER said Gordie was right to cross the coach-student ethical boundary. You, on the other hand, since you are directly involved in the Lowery case, have taken it upon yourself to be the self appointed authority on ALL abuse cases, even those of which you do not know the parties and weren't there.
come here and lobby for a change.
. . . . . .
He's a good coach, a good person and a big flirt who made some bad mistakes in judgment. A predator he is not. Yet the vultures are still trying to destroy what little he has left. Remember he has a family, too, a fine well respected mother, two fine children and they deserve you to drop this too.


How ridiculous! Why don't you tell us all who YOU are? Your comment that he is a good coach explains everything? Well, sorry, but he doesn't have a good success record, and no one else he coached in Texas would have ever done that well, anyway, except for the two pairs boys, and they are basically successful in pairs anyway.

And he has a fine mother? Come on, she is probably the reason he is the way he is now. His two children? HIS daughter has NOTHING to do with him! Why don't you call his first wife and her family, and the Rockford coaches, and the club officials in Chicago area who wouldn't let him in their rinks!

Why did the girl move in? To be closer to Gordie, because he had begun to inveigle himself with her already.

And why do you insist I am the mother, when you seem to know as much as I do! Why don't you ID yourself?

You stated in one of your recent posts that he is not a predator! Excuse me, ask the victim and her family in Rockford, and the teenager from South Atlantic area who lived in Rockford before her father had to move her out of there! Ask psychologists and others! Who are you kidding? The first "known" victim babysat (she is still known as the "babysitter"), who was 15-17 years old throughout his victimizing!

Does everyone else feel in shock that Earlyriser sees Gordie as a good coach, not a predator, but a flirt? Oh my, Earlyriser, you only have one other poster who in any way agrees with you, everyone else is appalled with your absurd observations and conclusions. But you hide behind your poster name and refuse to be identified, then try to ID others!

And the Dallas FSC did NOTHING about the Gordie situation. Nothing! He resigned and then the USFSA took action, even though a judge member of Dallas FSC, other board members, and even current officers tried to influence the USFSA not to take any action!

And if his mother is so fine a person, why can't she coach at any of the rinks in Dallas except the little mall rinks? Ask the ex-wives about her and some of the then-skaters and other coaches who were in Lake Placid at the same time!

[tjsk8]

OH Please! I would love to see Dr.Phil's incredulous face when a bunch of self rightous, misguided, glory seeking skating parents try to BLAME the mother in the McKellen case for a middle aged man abusing his power with a teenage skater. I would love to hear his reaction when these people say we should all forget about it now since all he did was "fall in love" with a teenage skater he was supposed to be coaching. Did he fall in love with her the same way the female teacher fell in love with her teenage student? That teacher is in jail. should schools hire her when she is out??
Afterall, alll she did was fall in love! And the boy "loved" her too-alot. He still thinks she is "special". Should we all just allow any adult who "falls in love" with a willing teen carry on in their positions of authority? Bob Young was no different from Mckellen-dont fool yourself into believing otherwise. He used his status as a popular coach to flirt with teenage skaters he was coaching, he gave special attention, bought gifts, and most importantly, he drove a wedge between the teen and her family. So easy to do when a teen age girl has demands and expectations placed on her by her mom. I can only thank God that no Bob Young or Gordie McKellan was near the rink when my daughter brought out the worst in me when she slacked off on the ice, copped an attitude with me about skating and schoolwork, and mouthed off disrespectfully when I was infuriated by her lack of effort. If an attentive male coach had murmered to my daughter at those times his "sympathy" and his "concern" that I was unfair I can only imagine how easy it would have been for him to create a very unhealthy relationship with her.
Gordie did that. Bob YOung did that. the only difference is that the girl in the Bob Young case was either smarter or more emotiuonally mature-she realized he was using her for his own gratification . LOVE? Tacking that label on his behavior doesnt mean anything to me. It is just a word that does nothing to alleviate his guilt.
If a teacher has sex(secretly) with a student most people would say it indicates a serious problem and the teacher would have a hard time finding a community of people saying "thats ok! you must have been "in love" so we understand and wont make you suffer anymore".
But in the skating community we have too many who are willing to do just that-excuse it, explain it. and forget about it.
If a teen is having problems at home, a "loving" adult doesnt move in to have a sexual relationship with that teen!!!!!!!!
That isnt love.



DR PHIL HUH what a joke! Anyone can do what he does. He gives his opinion and people are stupid enough to go on his show for him to degrade them and I don't even watch it this is what I see from the commercials.

[Skatewind]

I don't think posters should be trying to "out" other posters by name or position, no matter what their views on this matter. It's simply bad netiquette.

[celtic]

I don't think posters should be trying to "out" other posters by name or position, no matter what their views on this matter. It's simply bad netiquette.

You're correct. I was responding in kind to a low level of poster. I did, however, notify the administrator about post #221, ID'ing people and calling them by first name of whom that poster thinks they are.

[Rogue]

Just a question for those who talk about Gordie being "in love." My understanding it that when you love someone, you look out for their best interests. Did Gordie really think it was in the girl's best interest to abandon her skating career and be gossiped about all over the internet so that she could be with him? Or was he just too immature to realize that this would happen?

My opinion is that if he truly loved the girl, he would have put her interests first. That would involve stepping back and recommending that someone else be her coach, moving her out of his house, and telling her to date some people closer to her in age before making a decision to be with him. If the two were truly in love, it would have survived the separation and the girl would have been able to retain her skating career and reputation.

[leafericson]

Just a question for those who talk about Gordie being "in love." My understanding it that when you love someone, you look out for their best interests. Did Gordie really think it was in the girl's best interest to abandon her skating career and be gossiped about all over the internet so that she could be with him? Or was he just too immature to realize that this would happen?

My opinion is that if he truly loved the girl, he would have put her interests first. That would involve stepping back and recommending that someone else be her coach, moving her out of his house, and telling her to date some people closer to her in age before making a decision to be with him. If the two were truly in love, it would have survived the separation and the girl would have been able to retain her skating career and reputation.


Well put Rogue, ` And more.......I still can't figure this out.... Why( if he wasn't wrong, and it all WOULD be ok someday), if he had used proper morals and coach-student ethics, why, then, didn't he go to his hearing to at least try to defend himself. Even with the possiblity of being proven wrong. Just not to go at all knowing the consequences. I just figure hew must of thought he was above all true consequences. I wonder if it's because he had no real and valid defense?

[celtic]

WeBe, Leafericson, Rogue, Whatmeworry, Skatewind, Oldtimersk8s, etc., etc., etc., we are all wrong! I have finally seen the light! Instead of arguing about morality and ethics, we should embrace the situation because (1) Gordie is "a good person" (just "a flirt") (2) "Gordie is not a predator" (he has a history with others, but of course those mothers may have been evil, too, so he might have had to "help" those girls, too with his "sex therapy", (3) he has a fine mother (?) (4) this mother is "looney" and (5) the father is a great person because he goes along with everything the coach wants to do to his child and thereby has no tension with them (even though he frequently punched, hit and emotionally abused the mother and finally was called up by the courts, but of course that is not mentioned, just swept under the rug. (Think if the mother had done same to the father, we would hear no end of it on this thread), and (6) the mother was creating unbearable tension because she wanted the daughter to stay in school and do well and put that first. But of course, the mother's "abuse" meant that it interfered with the girl's skating! Oh horror, her skating was affected! That's most important!

Don't let Earlyriser and her adulation of Gordie blind you to the real facts: what he did in the past, what he did in this situation, what he will continue to do unless he gets counseling and out of contact with young, vulnerable teens. He has never apologized, and in fact, tries to get others to reinstate him!

Is anyone else getting a little tired of the constant support of what this guy did? Despite the "I know he was wrong, but. . . " crap, Earlyriser continues to sing his praises and his innocence.

Perhaps the mother, and the other posters who are mothers and who are outraged, choose not to condone this behavior. Perhaps she is willing to stand up for what is right and moral and decent and not be concerned with letting the coach and the victim control the situation. Would you abandon your convictions and your moral sense of right and wrong, or would you uphold them despite the consequences? One day the victim will be glad that the mother, despite all else, upheld them.

In the meantime, Gordie can rot while he tries to use the back doors to re-enter skating. He can continue to have his behavior aired, and that is the issue here, his behavior!

[celtic]

I can guarantee I am not the mother! I am a close friend of hers and have advised her not to get involved in this, as it is too personal and upsetting for her. She gives me first-hand information, and I have checked many of the references she has given me. But that doesn't matter, it is not ethical or correct to ID someone, when the poster doing that hides behind a poster name herself/himself.

When the mother is attacked, I will certainly bring in others who are partially the cause of these things. Earlyriser brought in the mother, not me!

I am not mudslinging, Earlyriser is. She/he has been furious since another poster printed the Dallas Morning News article in its entirety. Early is using the defense tactics of a slimy defense attorney in a rape trial: focus on the victim and get the attention away from the accused! This is still about Gordie, and I hope readers will remember that. Coaches, judges, former skaters have all been very adamant about his "history", and after much research, that history is very clear. Nobody made him do this, he did this himself, and the present victim is certainly not the first.

The mother is only bringing this up, as I am, when gordie still tries to coach. Many other parents, myself, and professionals have been concerned enough to contact rinks when he has tried to get yet another coaching job. And parents in Florida obviously are interested in this latest attempt to enter coaching again: look at the number of posters and readers. And despite the opinions of just a few people, the USFSA was concerned enough to ban this predator for life. Many of us are very glad he "lost much": perhaps, as one of the other posters has suggested, HE should get over it and seek another career track, and all this will die down. He is bringing it on himself, and HE is the guilty party, not the other coaches, parents, the mother, or me.

[celtic]

This is supposed to be about Gordie. You have a personal vendatta against the mother. This is about Gordie and his despicable, continuing, decades-long aberrant behavior.

The Dallas FSC did nothing, some of the board tried to stall things, they gave out a personal loan and kept it from their membership, that is all I pointed out, in the context of the loan being to him, and them hiring him, I have nothing else of interest to me about that club. You in your posts lambasted the Lone Star Club (now Stars FSC of Texas) and the Dallas Stars, both fine organizations.

YOU brought up, time and again, the wonderful father of the victim, and I responded about him, YOU brought up crap and accusations about the victim's mother, then had the nerve to say Gordie's was a fine mother, and I responded. YOU brought up all this extraneous information and then scream when others defend someone you don't like, or give more of the picture about those you sing the praises of.

This is about Gordie, and he is not, as you state, a good person, or just a flirt. He is dangerous, unethical, unprofessional, and unbalanced in his continuing interest in girls young enough to be his daughters.

Let him sell shoes, as someone else posted, and this will die down. Look back on all these two threads and you will see info from many other posters, not just me, keeping this alive.

I don't understand your personal agenda against the mother and your personal crusade to exonerate someone so despicable and disgusting. Who cares if George Bush and the Archibishop of Canterbury, and anyone else want to post, what business is it of yours?

The bottom line is, people who were totally unaware of his past, his ban, and the hiring of him as a celelbrity coach, found out about this, so it has served a purpose.

If you want to keep this going, fine, but each time there will be those who read it and see once more what type of coach will be at the summer camp. It spreads the word, so in your own way, you are performing a community service!

[Skatewind]

I'll say it again, I don't support Gordie. I do support an exchange of ideas in a civil manner. I'm sorry I called you looney as I don't like namecalling, but the more you twisted what I said and continued to call me names the harder it was to resist a rebuttal to what I believe were very vengeful remarks and attacks on those who shouldn't be attacked.
Your last few posts have hardly been what would be considered "an exchange of ideas in a civil manner", & very effective rebuttals can be done without calling names. Although it may no longer be a written rule at SF not to attempt to "out" other posters, it is still considered common courtesy, part of a standard of netiquette, not to do so. Perhaps this is just one more line among many to be crossed, but it is reading as a particularly low class thing to do. So if that's the message those doing it are trying to convey, it's coming across loud & clear.

A lot of us here could really care less about all the he said/she said mudslinging details. My main interest in the McKellen case remains one from a business perspective, as someone who is directly involved in working with children & community organizations. It is mainly to review & watch what the USFSA does as far as following up & fine tuning the policies that have been implemented, & to consider what else needs to be done, to ensure these coaches are effectively removed & distanced from a teaching & coaching environment involving children.

[celtic]

. . . .I'm not on any crusade to exonerate Gordie. You know that. He's been given his punishment. He's "serving his time". (Quote)


Oh, my gosh. Is Gordie paying you for public relations? You keep harping on the mother, are you obsessed? Are you ill? Are you angry? Give us your take on the babysitter's parents now, or the parents of the better known skater who left Rockford and gossip spread about her for at least a year? It's Gordie that is the common denominator in all these.

The mother and others, including many posters on this thread, will back off when he decides he shouldn't be in coaching! It's that simple. You keep trying to influence the readers that the girl had a horrible home life. Do you know she talks to, visits with and spends time with her mother???

Everything has been factual, and in response to questions or untrue statements. Everything about the club, the predator, the situation is true.

Do you want to discuss the father's violence problem that created such friction that it influenced the home life? Do you want to talk about the relationship of the predator and his daughter, his treatment of other young girls, the treatment to his wives? This is not dirt, but factors influencing home life as well. So don't single out the mother of this victim.

Only Gordie himself would be doing this, or one of his minions.

[WeBeEducated]

I have said it before and I will say it again-to people outside of skating that I have discussed this with think it is outrageous that Gordie is still being touted as a coach!
They look at me like I am part of some weird cult when I tell them that some skating parents are willing to hire him, that some skating clubs offered him loans, that some club board members felt SORRY!! for him, and that some people are more aggressive in blaming the mother for arguing with her daughter about teenage priorites rather than recognizing the pattern of predatory behavior that Gordie engages in!
The reason this thread got started is that many were totally shocked that a club/rink/summer camp would advertise nationally TO CHILDREN, trying to sell the services of a coach who was banned for unethical behavior!
It is rather bizarre that anyone would suggest that a banned coach should be reabsorbed back into the environment of young, impressionable, vulnerable skaters.
Bob Young should not be coaching USFSA athletes.
Neither should Gordie.
There is NO difference between their methods, their goals, and their ethics; their patterns of behavior are very similar.
Both have been banned for the same reason, and both should seek different careers. .
It isnt just Gordie we are concerned about thoughIt is the system that allowes them to continue to coach that we are concerned with too. It is the lack of information readily accessable to skaters. That lack of information enables banned coaches to continue to work with innocent, trusting youth.
And the parents who offer their children to a banned coach in the name of skating are a concern too, because we question the affect such a mindset will have to the skating world that we are a part of. We all are aware of how predatory behavior was overlooked, actually accepted in the skating world for so long, and we want to change that by forcing those involved to reconsider other options.
I dont feel sorry for Gordie or for Bob Young! I feel sorry for the girls who were caught up in the manipulation.

[dejaview]

Bob Young should not be coaching USFSA athletes.
Neither should Gordie.
There is NO difference between their methods, their goals, and their ethics; their patterns of behavior are very similar.
Both have been banned for the same reason, and both should seek different careers. .
I dont feel sorry for Gordie or for Bob Young! I feel sorry for the girls who were caught up in the manipulation.


Absolutely. You are 100% right. And you along with others are doing a wonderful job trying to let people know. The frustrating part is getting skaters to stop taking from these guys so that they are forced to move on.

As long as athletes (like the senior pair team in Connecticut) continue paying their coach for lessons, thus putting USFSA money in the pocket of a coach banned for life by the USFSA, the coach will continue. They (the athletes) are the enablers. It's a pretty easy concept - no students = no paycheck :
no paycheck = no job

Maybe this could be brought up at the governing council next week. :idea:

[adrianchew]

Sorry about the crap that's been posted here - I deleted a bunch of posts and banned EarlyRiser... if people can't see that doing something wrong is simply plain wrong, they must be blind. Deflecting blame and trying to skew wrongs is a sad sad thing - its like pulling the trigger on a loaded gun and after that saying - hey, I didn't know the thing was loaded. Gee, yeah, umm, play with fire, get burned - ya know?! :roll:

[Skatewind]

There was a segment about coach abuse of minors on Oprah 5/20, the guests were a girl who was 13 at the time of the abuse (the coach was 40) & her parents. You can page through this photo gallery for a synopsis:

http://www.oprah.com/tows/slide/200405/20040520/tows_slide_20040520_01.jhtml

http://www.oprah.com/tows/pdfs/tows_20020426_abuse.pdf

[what?meworry?]

...many were totally shocked that a club/rink/summer camp would advertise nationally TO CHILDREN, trying to sell the services of a coach who was banned for unethical behavior!
It is rather bizarre that anyone would suggest that a banned coach should be reabsorbed back into the environment of young, impressionable, vulnerable skaters.
Bob Young should not be coaching USFSA athletes.
Neither should Gordie.
There is NO difference between their methods, their goals, and their ethics; their patterns of behavior are very similar.
Both have been banned for the same reason, and both should seek different careers...
...I dont feel sorry for Gordie or for Bob Young! I feel sorry for the girls who were caught up in the manipulation.
i find it beyond bizarre that usfsa would put into place a strong, so far effective grievance/evaluation/discipline process UP TO A POINT and then appear to turn the other way if the coaches find an open back door back into coaching usfsa athletes.
it is effectively impossible for the vast majority of usfsa (not to mention isi and general rink management) skaters' parents to find out about usfsa banned coaches and the circumstances of the grievance that resulted in the banning.

it would be a valuable service if usfsa would further accept the responsibility of making the basic circumstances of the grievances against those individuals banned from usfsa membership/participation REASONABLY AVAILABLE to parents, skaters, club, and rink management. right now such information appears only once---in small print somewhere in one issue of "skating magazine" mailed to usfsa members. there is no way to access such information by coaches name or by search on the usfsa website.

goodness knows there will be plenty of overly ambitious parents who would willingly use a banned coach for instruction, but, hopefully, at least an equal number would chose NOT to involve their children with the coach.
there clearly should be the mandated opportunity (meaning online, currently available information) for each parent to make an INFORMED decision!

i'm finding this debate to be curiouser and curiouser with each post. the absurd justifications of being "in love" or the student was willing, or even agressive, are frightening considering this board has an audience of skating enthusiasts.

information about a coach banned as a result of a grievance related to sexual abuse of his/her student should be realily available to every rink, every club, every parent. and this information should not simply reside in the memories of those who once read the small notice to be passed along by "word of mouth."

by the way, are the coaches that have been banned (2 male, 1 female to date?) still members of psa? has psa any ethics/grievance process in place to address such matters? the only "action" reported in a post (on this or another board) is that psa insurance has eliminating coverage for sexual abuse.

[WeBeEducated]

Good points, WMW.
Perhaps the question we need to present to the USFSA is WHY is the information concerning banned coaches BURIED and nearly impossible to retrieve?
Why does the USFSA seem to be providing a curtain of silence or protection regarding the reputations of unethical coaches?
Does such a policy serve the members?
Has the head of the Parent Committee proposed anything that would assist parents in learning the names of banned coaches in order to protect their children?

[SkateFan123]

Good points, WMW.
Perhaps the question we need to present to the USFSA is WHY is the information concerning banned coaches BURIED and nearly impossible to retrieve?
Why does the USFSA seem to be providing a curtain of silence or protection regarding the reputations of unethical coaches?
Does such a policy serve the members?
Has the head of the Parent Committee proposed anything that would assist parents in learning the names of banned coaches in order to protect their children?

Does it really surprise you that the USFS buries information such as this?

Now working with the Parent Committee to expose proven cases of abuse is the smartest idea I've seek here!

Educating skaters to speak up to anyone and everyone who will listen would be quite affective too.