a question for Kurt fans

[Artemis]

I'm facing the task of dubbing my recordings of pro competitions and shows 1994-2002. I'm ok for most of the skaters, but I seem to have collected an aweful lot of Kurt Browning. So, to help me out, can anyone provide an opinion as to which are the [b:f5462833f8]best[/b:f5462833f8] performances of any of the following Kurt programs:

~ Nyah
~ Rags
~ Antares
~ Don't Fence Me In
~ That's Entertainment
~ Brick House
~ Don't Let the Sun Go Down On Me
~ Serenade to Sonia
~ All Alone (Satriani)
~ Crash

Any input greatly appreciated.

TIA

[Tigger]

Doing this w/the use of the quote feature so I can use the list you provided...

[quote:5fdf2d4b71="Artemis"]performances of any of the following Kurt programs:

~ Nyah

Me : If you have a copy of the A&E broadcast from 2001, then this would be the best broadcast version. Only reason I'm not saying the one from the CBC broadcast is because for some unknown and idiotic reason, they dubbed down the sound level. You don't want that for a number like Nyah.

~ Rags : Defintely it's debut at the 98 Cdn Open.

~ Antares : If you have 98 CSOI, then use that one. It has Kurt landing the quad in it.

~ Don't Fence Me In : 2001 CSOI version w/triple axel

~ That's Entertainment : Cdn Pro debut. Sorry, but I'm blanking on the year.

~ Brick House : W/out a doubt the Cdn Pro debut and Kurt's first Pro win.

~ Don't Let the Sun Go Down On Me : 93 CSOI if you have it. My personal favourite version of this number. My first CSOI too. Not that I'm biased about this particular version... ;)

~ Serenade to Sonia : W/out a doubt, the 96 Cdn Pro. All those tens, the debut of the program and the fact Kurt is literally glowing during the entire thing. No question about it that you should use this version on your tape.

~ All Alone (Satriani) : Hmmmm....Not sure. I have the 94 CSOI performance on my tape. But if you don't have that....Not sure...

~ Crash : Have to go w/the CSOI performance of this. Sigh...One of my favourite Kurt numbers of the last few years.[/quote:5fdf2d4b71]

Hope I was able to help. :)

[Artemis]

Tigger: Many many thanks for such a speedy and thorough reply. I don't know how you remembered all that!

And I'm pretty sure I have all of those versions.

One question, though: how much did the landing of the big jumps (3Ax, quad) affect your determination of the best performances? I only ask because I'm happy to go with downgraded jumps and great overall performance over big jumps and less performance. Mind you ... in Kurt's case it's moot since I can't recall ever seeing him give less than 110% performance level.

[Teenes]

I seem to have a somewhat different opinion on some of these than Tigger, so i'll either back her up or provide an alternative...

~ Nyah - definitely A&E SOI. The only other times it's been shown on TV has been for the altered competitive version with a couple jumps thrown in

~ Rags - I'd say either the debut at the Canadian Open or the Grand Slam that year when Raggy "bribed" the judges with fruit...but I'd say for the performance itself, go with the Canadian Open.

~ Antares - this is a hard one to pick a *bad* performance of. Just don't use the butchered short program version =). Or the one with the attempted/failed quad from Ultimate Four.

~ Don't Fence Me In - I'd actually say *not* the CSOI performance. Triple axel or no, the program was cut down for CSOI. But other than that, no real opinion...maybe SOI?

~ That's Entertainment - NOT the Ultimate Four =).

~ Brick House - I'd actually say the Fox Rock 'n Roll version. Not just b/c it made me a fan, but also b/c I thought his timing and facial expressions were perfect, whereas he seemed a tad bit overboard at the Canadian Pros...just my opinion..

~ Don't Let the Sun Go Down On Me - best I've seen is the CSOI one Tigger mentioned

~ Serenade to Sonia - totally concur on the Canadian Pros that year. Perfect 10's for artistic across the board!

~ All Alone (Satriani) - definitely the CSOI performance.

~ Crash - I would argue the Ice Wars performance...I can't remember if he made a mistake in it or not but the footwork sequence down the ice in the beginning is possibly one of my favorite things he's done... if he did fall or make a mistake, then the CSOI performance (those are your only choices anyway)

Have fun and good luck. I have an *extremely* hard time picking out the "best" of Kurt's performances of each program...

[jcspkbfan]

Here are my favorite performances of these particular numbers:

Nyah: I'd actually have to go with Kurt's performance of this number in "Gotta Dance"--he's quite a bit more comfortable with the choreography since he originally debuted it in the A&E SOI broadcast and he didn't include any jumps in this performance, either!

Raggy: I agree about the debut of this number at 1998 Canadian Open, but I'd recommend keeping one of Kurt's later 1999/2000 season performances of Raggy as well--he changed the choreography quite a bit since he debuted the program! My personal favorite "later" Raggy performance was during 1999 Grand Slam where Kurt shamelessly bribed the judges with a fruit basket before beginning his program! :D

Antares: Again, I agree the best performance overall was the CBC SOI broadcast with the quad, but my favorite [b:0937f9be76]competitive [/b:0937f9be76] performance of Antares would have to be (again!) the first time Kurt skated it at 1997 Canadian Open. Okay, I know that wasn't the cleanest performance of Antares Kurt's ever done, but I was just so impressed with the amount of technical difficulty he managed to cram into it!

Don't Fence Me In: Kurt's performance at the 2000 winter Hershey's USFSA pro-am thingy, complete with flawless 3-axel!

That's Entertainment: Even though I seem to remember Kurt falling on a 3-axel during this particular performance, I'd still have to agree with Kurt's debut performance at 1995 Canadian Pros.

Brickhouse: Again, I'd have to agree with Kurt's debut 1995 Canadian Pros performance (anyone else see a pattern here--LOL!) He probably gave better performances at 1995 Rock and Roll Championships and Battle of the Sexes (this program just seems to lend itself wonderfully to those kinds of "fluff" events), but the Canadian Pros performance holds a special place in my heart because it was the first pro event Kurt ever won. :)

Don't Let The Sun Go Down On Me: Kurt's technical program at 1995 World Team Championships--it was one of the first times I saw him look relaxed, comfortable and [b:0937f9be76]happy [/b:0937f9be76] on the ice as a pro skater!

Serenade To Sonia: I'd definitely have to agree with the 1996 Canadian Pros performance (another debut performance, surprise, surprise!)

All Alone: My personal favorite performance of this number actually took place at the 1996 Rock and Roll Championships--but I must admit the costume (white T-shirt and black leather pants) and the "striptease" in the kiss-and-cry area affected my decision just a little bit!

Crash: Sorry, I really can't decide between the SOI and Ice Wars performances--the Ice Wars performance had more excitement and technical difficulty while the SOI performance had more intricate choreography. Aww, if I were you, I'd definitely keep them both! :D






[b:0937f9be76][/b:0937f9be76]

[Teenes]

Excuse me while I thwack myself on the head for forgetting about Gotta Dance. How I ever managed to forget that Kurt performed Nyah at Gotta Dance is beyond me.... duh.

That being said, from what I recall of the two broadcasts, I think I still prefer the SOI one in how it presented the lighting, etc of the performance...Kurt was definitely a lot more comfortable in the Gotta Dance performance than SOI, but I felt like SOI captured the "look" of the program more... and since Nyah involves a certain amount of tension anyway, Kurt being tense doesn't quite take away from the performance...;) I guess this is a judge for yourself one =).

[Tigger]

Well..It's not that I forgot he did it at Gotta Dance, it's just I feel the better performance and overall feel of Nyah is on the A&E broadcast. Yes, by the time of Gotta Dance Kurt was comfortable w/Nyah, but the feel it had the previous season was gone. That thing is flamenco on ice, pure and simple and the flamenco needs a certain amount of tension and passion. I really feel that's missing in the Gotta Dance version. It's there in spades on the A&E version. Sigh...Now I want to go and pop this tape in the VCR...LOL!! :D

[Artemis]

Actually, I keep all the shows (SOI / CSOI / and Gotta Dance) regardless, so Nyah was probably a misleading question in the first place, sorry. Except that I couldn't remember if the jumps-added version for competition was worthwhile.

I'd have to agree that the first season of SOI for Nyah was better ... except that at Gotta Dance I got to see it [b:85ffa8c7a4]live[/b:85ffa8c7a4] at [b:85ffa8c7a4]ice level[/b:85ffa8c7a4], which kinda skewed my opinion! :D

And thanks again to everyone for your responses. I'm looking forward to the task now!

[Teenes]

Hey Tigger, I know you didn't forget about Gotta Dance. Was just kicking myself b/c I was *there* and I forgot he performed it there =).

Out of curiousity - I just watched the CSOI 2001 version of Don't Fence Me In and only saw a 2-axel and a triple-double combo... did I miss something since I was online at the same time?

On the other hand it was fun watching Josee and Kurt's rope number again =).

[Jenny]

It would be tedious, but if you have several versions of a program, you might want to time them. Numbers are often cut down for TV specials, and you might want the most complete version.

As noted, going for a competitive version isn't always the best idea either - while they are not edited for TV, they are often shortened for time during competition.

Jenny

(PS I'd definitely go for the CSOI Antares, but recognize that the quad was a retake!)

[Tigger]

Well Teenes...Now it's *my* turn to thwack myself on the head. I forgot that even they had Kurt do the triple axel during the retakes, they didn't use it in the broadcast. Had a few things on my mind this week, so....My fault on that one.

Yes, the quad *was* a retake, but it was a one take retake and a beauty of a quad to boot. I know I'd want it as part of any Kurt tape I would be putting together.

[Toeloopy]

[quote:ef6f3ce473="jcspkbfan"]
Brickhouse: ... the Canadian Pros performance holds a special place in my heart because it was the first pro event Kurt ever won.
[/quote:ef6f3ce473]

Actually, Kurt's first pro victory was at the Starlight Challenge held in Wollman Rink in Central Park in October of 1995. It was a pro-am and he beat Todd Eldredge and Scott Hamilton. His second number was to [i:ef6f3ce473]Hey Pachuko[/i:ef6f3ce473] and [u:ef6f3ce473]that[/u:ef6f3ce473] is my favorite performance of that number! 8) It was a very cold, windy night to be skating outdoors, so I won't forget that night! (Also, Kurt broke his boot on the triple axel attempt in the technical program, but came from behind to win.)

There weren't many people there in person, and I think TV aired it very late in the season, possibly after the Canadian Pro victory.

-Michelle

[Tigger]

Okay...Second time tonight I thwack myself in the head for forgetting something.... It's been a long week. :roll:

Toeloopy's right. That one time Starlight competition was Kurt's first win. It was held the same night as the last Referundum(sp) that was held in Quebec and Quebecers deciding if they still wanted to be a part of Canada or not. I also remember Lloyd and Isabelle were there that night and thinking what on earth must be going through all of their minds. Especially Isabelle's. Combine that w/the fact it was also my birthday and that must be why I forgot about this win. Well....That and the fact it was taped mostly w/the skaters shot skating on an angle. Much like most of this past year's A&E SOI broadcast. Anyway....I think I need to go to bed now...:)

[Teenes]

Wow, Tigger, I'd forgotten about Kurt's triple axel during retakes. There's such a lag between when CSOI takes place and when they aired it that I never put it together. But I just went and read my own 2001 CSOI Hamilton review, and lo and behold I said that he landed the 3-axel his first try during retakes, and that he also did a triple-triple combo. I wonder why they didn't edit them in??

[jcspkbfan]

Teenes and tigger, I never really thought about that particular take on Nyah before (more tension from Kurt=more effective performance) Oh well, guess I'll just have to rewatch the tape again to see exactly what you mean! :wink:

I do agree the altered competitive performance wasn't quite as effective, though--adding jumps to Nyah kind of defeats the original purpose of the program, IMO. But on the other hand, it was great to see Kurt skate this program a few more times than I'd ever thought I'd see it--for the record, the "modified" version of Nyah worked well for Kurt at the World Ice Challenge, but not quite so well at Hallmark Pro Championships. :(

I never really thought of Starlight Challenge as Kurt's first pro win because (1) it was a pro-am so I don't really consider it to be a "real" pro event, (2) I didn't get FOX at the time so I never even got to see it until several years later, and (3) I didn't even know this competition [b:a95dfd1036]existed[/b:a95dfd1036] until I got online and found out about it years later! :D

Tigger, I never realized the Starlight Challenge took place on the same day as the 1995 Quebec referendum--wow, I can only imagine what was going through Kurt, Isabelle, and Lloyd's minds at the time! I'm even more impressed with how well they were able to skate at that event now! I still consider Kurt's first pro-am victory (Starlight Challenge) and Kurt's first victory at a "real" pro event (1995 Canadian Pros) to be two separate things, though. :wink:

Finally, I wonder why CBC never bothered to use Kurt's "retaken" 3-axel and 3-3 combination during their broadcast...and why they even bothered to have Kurt redo those jumps in the first place if they weren't going to include them. :( Oh well, at least Kurt did land a huge 3-axel (and possibly a 3-3 combination, too--I don't really remember) during the 2000 Hershey's pro-am thingy performance of "Don't Fence Me In"--and they didn't edit anything out of the program or retake anything for that performance, either! :lol:

[shotunz]

Any of you archivists selling your "best of" videos? I thought I was a Kurt fanatic but my collections of his work pale in comparison! :oops:

[jcspkbfan]

I just found this message today from somebody offering Kurt compilation tapes for sale (or trade):

http://pub5.bravenet.com/forum/fetch.php?id=10009142&usernum=345564544

I have no idea which performances this person has or anything else about her, but I just thought I'd mention it to whoever may be interested...

[Artemis]

Ok, went through a lot of tapes from the mid-90s this weekend ... and definitely have to concur that Canadian Pros were the best performances not only for Kurt but for other skaters too (notably Josée, Barb & Paul, and Isabelle and Lloyd).

The downside of the Canadian Pros performances, however, was Kerry Leitch commentary. He's a very knowledgable guy, always has something nice to say about every skater, and it's interesting to hear a commentary from the POV of a coach (as opposed to a skater) ... but he talks [b:300058bf5f]way[/b:300058bf5f] too much! And it's even more of an issue in Pro events, where often you need to be able to hear the lyrics to appreciate what the skater is doing ... I just wanted to him to shut up!

[trixie]

Didn't he do "Brickhouse" at Landover before Canadian Pro's that year ? Anyway, the performance of that number I remember best is the Landover one...I just thought it was before.

[jcspkbfan]

Trixie, Kurt did skate Brickhouse (and That's Entertainment) at both 1995 Canadian Pros and World Pros, but the Canadian Pros performance was cleaner. Kurt had a tiny stumble (not during a jump or anything, he just tripped doing some footwork or something) during his 1995 World Pros Brickhouse performance, but to his credit, he covered it up so well, a lot of people (including myself the first time I watched it!) couldn't even notice!

Kurt skated Brickhouse again at 1997 World Pros and performed it even better than he did at that event two years ago. :)

And ITA about Kerry Leitch's commentary! I [b:573466b3a1]almost [/b:573466b3a1] wished Underhill and Martini never competed at Canadian Pros so Barb could commentate the whole thing and I always looked forward to hearing Scott's commentary when CBS broadcast the event a few weeks later.

[Teenes]

I'm not sure about that year in particular, but in general Canadian Pros tends to take place before World Pros. Maybe just a week before, but it's still before. When they air relative to each other is another story...So I *think* that Kurt's skated Brickhouse first at Canadian Pros and then at Landover.

I still prefer his performance at the Rock n' Roll Skating Championships but the fact that I didn't see either his World Pro or Canadian Pro performances until much later may have influenced that preference =).

[Artemis]

Canadian Pros was [b:dabefc0ab0]definitely[/b:dabefc0ab0] before Landover that year -- there was much talk at the Canadian Pros about it being the debut for both programs, and about it being his first big pro win. Since then, Kurt often talked about that competition (Cdn Pros) being the turning point, justifying his existence as a pro. And for me one of the highlights on the tape was not just his performance of Brick House, but his reaction in the Kiss&Cry afterward. He was elated but also overwhelmed and close to tears ... it was wonderful to see.

[jcspkbfan]

I don't remember Kurt close to tears in the kiss-and-cry after winning the 1995 Canadian Pros, but I do remember he got a little choked up when Rod Black interviewed him shortly afterwards. Kurt said winning Canadian Pros was like his World Championships that year and regardless of whatever else happened to him that season, that was the only thing that mattered to him.

Of course, Kurt probably never imagined he'd win his first World Pro title just a few weeks later and who could forget his reaction to winning [b:4f3ffae3b9]that[/b:4f3ffae3b9] event! :D

The funny thing is Kurt [b:4f3ffae3b9]never[/b:4f3ffae3b9] acted that emotional after winning any of his four eligible world titles--he'd choke up whenever one of his skating friends (Brian Orser in 1987, Kristi in 1991), but never over any of his own victories.

Another funny thing is I remember Kurt saying in an article that Brickhouse was never intended to be a competitive program--it was originally created as strictly a show number. Very ironic since Brickhouse is probably one of Kurt's most successful competitive numbers ever. :wink:

[proam]

Kurt’s best Brickhouse was 1997/1998 Worlds Pros, he was so “on”, so awesome. :)
It seemed that he could have literally skated, read-danced, all night. :)

[Artemis]

[quote:6dc26ce6ff="jcspkbfan"]I don't remember Kurt close to tears in the kiss-and-cry ... [/quote:6dc26ce6ff]

Well, "close to tears" might have been a bit of an interpretation on my part ... but he was definitely choked up and displaying a range of emotions. He did some arm pumping, some kicking his feet in the air, threw the big Charlie Brown doll up in the air ... then clutched his head between his knees, almost as if he was about to throw up! When he "resurfaced" the expression on his face was priceless -- and that was the bit where he looked almost close to tears. Then he slid back out on the ice for another curtain call.

(I just watched the tape this weekend so it's very fresh in my memory.)

[Gail]

That was a great competition for Kurt, and one I've watched over and over. Not only was Kurt happy, but the audience response was so great, and he received two huge standing ovations. Loved every minute of it.