Jennifer Kirk Website Update

[adrianchew]

There's a new Q&A update...

http://www.figureskatersonline.com/jenniferkirk/qa5.html

Her diary also has a June entry...

http://www.figureskatersonline.com/jenniferkirk/diary.html

[AxelAnnie22]

[color=darkblue:1b64a84f26]Oh Man! I hate to even think of her working on a quad. Good Grief. She has a list a mile long of things she wants to work on, why add that? There is more than enough jumping going on already - to say nothing of enough injured skaters in the world. I hope the quad talk was just that. [/color:1b64a84f26]

[color=indigo:1b64a84f26][/color:1b64a84f26]

[CanadianSkater]

If she thinks she can do a quad, I say go for it!!

Womens skating hasn't advanced technically for sooo long and this would make the competion way more interesting and exciting.

Imagine if she lands it, I wonder how it would affect the placements?!?

[Marco]

Would a 4t from Jenny worth as much as say, a 3loop from Irina?

[Rob]

I would like to see her get some more height on the triples first. But I guess she and Callaghan think she needs it to keep up with Cohen.

[blue111moon]

Actually, Jenny was working on the quad salchow and a triple axel last year but stopped because of her hip injury and her mother's death. It's not something new she's decided on just to "keep up with Sasha."

[Trillian]

I don't see why Kirk would need a quad sal to keep up with Cohen considering that Cohen hasn't come anywhere near landing a clean one in competition yet. And she's actually been talking about attempting this jump for several years IIRC, so she could hardly be called a copycat.

That said, I don't think it's the thing she needs to be focusing on, anymore than I think Cohen should be focusing on it. Until the jumps she's already doing are improved (AND get back to their former consistency level), a quad sal isn't going to help her a whole lot.

[radioactive]

I skated with her everyday for the past 3 years, same sessions and she never attempted 3 axels and quads unless she was doing them in Boston without her coach which I doubt. She was working on getting the 2 axel and 3 sals higher which is probably what she is doing now. Right before she had her hip flexor injury she was doing awesome 3 lutz/3 loop. And I use to love her 2axel/1/2 loop/3 sal. Personally I think she did the right thing in changing skating environments and I'd expect her to really improve this coming season.

[Scott]

[quote:d702940899="Rob"]I would like to see her get some more height on the triples first. But I guess she and Callaghan think she needs it to keep up with Cohen.[/quote:d702940899]

If there is one thing that bothers me about Jenny is the lack of height when she jumps. I agree with you Rob. get the height first. She hardly gets off the ground. To her credit, she has fabulous rotation which will help her with a quad.

[IgglesII]

[quote:2fc85972c1="blue111moon"]Actually, Jenny was working on the quad salchow and a triple axel last year but stopped because of her hip injury and her mother's death. It's not something new she's decided on just to "keep up with Sasha."[/quote:2fc85972c1]

If she tries playing "keep up with Sasha" with that questionable hip of hers, she's gonna find herself keeping Naomi Nari Nam & Deanna Stellato company on the scrap heap.

[AxelAnnie22]

[quote:298468e8c5][color=darkblue:298468e8c5]Actually, Jenny was working on the quad salchow and a triple axel last year but stopped because of her hip injury .... "[/color:298468e8c5][/quote:298468e8c5]

[color=green:298468e8c5]I rest my case. These kids have got to keep their eye on the goal.....a successful skating career - career being the operative word. I can't imagine that the torque - fall on getting a quad anywhere near consistent is worth the toll on the body.

Jenny posted a lengthy list of things she wanted to work on this season. And, to bump up from where she is to the World Team level, she is going to need that improvement. Jenny has the potential to compete at the top levels. I think she would be much better served by working on her basic skating skills - her speed, height, edges, etc. I am sure everyone would like to be the first to land a quad or a 3A. But, as I am sure Sasha would tell you-----they are not worth haning your hat and hopes on.[/color:298468e8c5]

[adrianchew]

I'm not sure if its a realization of desperation perhaps that's adding to a rush for the need of a bang in jumping ability to get to the top. Consider that Sarah really won the Olympics hugely helped by throwing in two 3/3 combos into her program.

Its very crowded in the top 6 for US ladies... most people would say that Sasha, Sarah, Michelle are almost certain of getting the coveted spot on the World team next season. Unless one of them withdraws or fails, Jenny will need every trick in the book and then some, to get up there - not to mention that AP seems to be a more natural jumper to Jenny. And Angela could still occasionally throw everyone out with a surprise.

If you look at Sasha, she probably felt like the quad was a necessary tool in her arsenal to come from behind, but as the season progressed, her skating in general improved to the point that the quad was no longer essential.

In a way - US Nationals next year for the ladies could be more interesting than Worlds.

[Trillian]

[quote:6ece26d369="adrianchew"]Consider that Sarah really won the Olympics hugely helped by throwing in two 3/3 combos into her program.[/quote:6ece26d369]

Well, I'm sure you didn't mean it this way, but "throwing in" those combos was definitely not what happened. She'd been attempting at least one of them for several years, and she'd tried both of them earlier in the season IIRC. At any rate, they were very much a planned part of her program, not something she threw in to boost her chances at the Olympics.

[quote:6ece26d369]not to mention that AP seems to be a more natural jumper to Jenny.[/quote:6ece26d369]

Maybe. But AP has also been doing the jumps longer. IIRC she had her first triple, the lutz, by the time she was 11; Jenny didn't even start skating until she was 9. AP's triples used to be horribly cheated; she made a great deal of progress after the 1998-99 season (coinciding, not surprisingly, with a coaching change) and they're pretty solid now. But she's been working on them for a long time, and they weren't always very strong. As it is, she has consistency problems with the jumps and her technique isn't 100% dependable yet.

However, despite Jenny's ability to rotate quite fast in the air, I'd consider most of the top U.S. ladies to be more "natural" jumpers than she is. She's succeeded because of other strengths.

[radioactive]

[quote:de3dfaa91e="AxelAnnie22"][quote:de3dfaa91e][color=darkblue:de3dfaa91e]Actually, Jenny was working on the quad salchow and a triple axel last year but stopped because of her hip injury .... "[/color:de3dfaa91e][/quote:de3dfaa91e]

[color=green:de3dfaa91e]I rest my case. These kids have got to keep their eye on the goal.....a successful skating career - career being the operative word. I can't imagine that the torque - fall on getting a quad anywhere near consistent is worth the toll on the body.

.[/color:de3dfaa91e][/quote:de3dfaa91e]

I guess you didn't read my post that said she never attempted quads or 3 axels. I was there the day she injured her hip and I would say it had more to do with her practicing 3lutz/3loops and 3loop/3loop and practicing aggressively while coach smiled in approval. Her 3 sal is one of her best jumps, I think she will get the quad sal over the summer if she stays healthy. She's not a stupid skater and after her injury she was very aware not to push herself to injury.

[AxelAnnie22]

[color=darkblue:d546a741d0]Hi Radioactive.

I did read your post. I just, generally, feel that these young women are putting their bodies through more than bodies are designed to take, whether they are practicing quads or 3/3's. We have had too many wonderful skaters sidelined much to early in their careers.

Even if Jenny is a "smart" skater, she still managed to get hurt. I would rather see the sakters push the envelope by developing more wonder, line, and speed in the elements they have, and the choreography they use, than see 100 quads. I just don't think they are worth the price.

BTW - I don't think the quad has added much overall to men's skating. It is exciting to see, but then it is done.

[/color:d546a741d0]

[radioactive]

[quote:91c8c10acc="AxelAnnie22"][color=darkblue:91c8c10acc]Hi Radioactive.

I did read your post. I just, generally, feel that these young women are putting their bodies through more than bodies are designed to take, whether they are practicing quads or 3/3's. We have had too many wonderful skaters sidelined much to early in their careers.

Even if Jenny is a "smart" skater, she still managed to get hurt. I would rather see the sakters push the envelope by developing more wonder, line, and speed in the elements they have, and the choreography they use, than see 100 quads. I just don't think they are worth the price.

BTW - I don't think the quad has added much overall to men's skating. It is exciting to see, but then it is done.

[/color:91c8c10acc][/quote:91c8c10acc]

I didn't mean smart like in book smart, I meant that she learned from that 1st injury not to be so Taralipinskish in the future. Doing rep after rep of 3/3 to the point of exhaustion which is what she was doing. She matured so much after that and was working hard on all the other aspects of her skating like you mentioned.

I agree about the quad being hard on your body if you don't train right and I think it's going to take more than a summer or a season to get one consistant for most other female skaters. But Jenny was working on the mechanics of the quad sal (getting greater height on the 3 sal) since maybe Junior worlds as I recall. And if she has the benefit of a harness in Detroit which wasn't available at our rink in MA then she wouldn't be falling on her attempts.

Thanks for your opinion and I do see your concern but for those of us who love jumping I would get bored if there wasn't more to look forward to, not that I'm anywhere close to quads but it's still something I dream about trying :wink:

[Mayra]

Is there some kind of rule that says you can't practice quads, 3axels or other 3/3's [i:ecc4f63fd3]AND[/i:ecc4f63fd3] at the same time focus on trying to improve your overall skating? I ask this because whenever someone mentions they want to start training jump x or combination x/y people automatically jump in and say they shouldn't and instead should be concentrating on improving edging or getting their jumps clean etc.

Just because Jenny Kirk wants to try a quad doesn't mean she won't work on the height of her jumps or her speed. Imagine if Robin Wagner and Sarah Hughes had listened to all the talk of Sarah concentrating on fixing her 3flutz instead of practicing her 3/3's, where would she be? Not Olympic Champion thats for sure because for all the talk that she needed to fix the flutz and cheats only a month before the Olympics, in the end it didn't come into play because she hit everything when it counted.

[proam]

[quote:2389de1dd0="Mayra"]Is there some kind of rule that says you can't practice quads, 3axels or other 3/3's [i:2389de1dd0]AND[/i:2389de1dd0] at the same time focus on trying to improve your overall skating? I ask this because whenever someone mentions they want to start training jump x or combination x/y people automatically jump in and say they shouldn't and instead should be concentrating on improving edging or getting their jumps clean etc.

Just because Jenny Kirk wants to try a quad doesn't mean she won't work on the height of her jumps or her speed. Imagine if Robin Wagner and Sarah Hughes had listened to all the talk of Sarah concentrating on fixing her 3flutz instead of practicing her 3/3's, where would she be? Not Olympic Champion thats for sure because for all the talk that she needed to fix the flutz and cheats only a month before the Olympics, in the end it didn't come into play because hit everything when it counted.[/quote:2389de1dd0]

I couldn’t agree with you more, as I see it “x/y people” are more likely getting in a dig at certain skaters rather than being concerned about those skaters.

Jenny is not a favorite of mine, but I applaud her efforts to up the technical content of Ladies skating. It is time the Ladies catch up to the Men; the Ladies discipline has been lagging behind far too long. The discipline can be said to be stagnating when you can count on one hand the skaters that raised the bar in the last five years.

[Dustin]

[quote:a62163375d="Mayra"]Is there some kind of rule that says you can't practice quads, 3axels or other 3/3's [i:a62163375d]AND[/i:a62163375d] at the same time focus on trying to improve your overall skating? I ask this because whenever someone mentions they want to start training jump x or combination x/y people automatically jump in and say they shouldn't and instead should be concentrating on improving edging or getting their jumps clean etc.

Just because Jenny Kirk wants to try a quad doesn't mean she won't work on the height of her jumps or her speed. Imagine if Robin Wagner and Sarah Hughes had listened to all the talk of Sarah concentrating on fixing her 3flutz instead of practicing her 3/3's, where would she be? Not Olympic Champion thats for sure because for all the talk that she needed to fix the flutz and cheats only a month before the Olympics, in the end it didn't come into play because hit everything when it counted.[/quote:a62163375d]

Good point. As most skaters will realize, if you practice one thing too much you will get tired, then you will get frustrated because you can't do it any more. Instead, you are supposed to practice a variety of things.

[AxelAnnie22]

[quote:1be809e10d]Good point. As most skaters will realize, if you practice one thing too much you will get tired, then you will get frustrated because you can't do it any more. Instead, you are supposed to
practice a variety of things.[/quote:1be809e10d]


[color=blue:1be809e10d]You could probably add to that concern the strain on the body of doing one thing over and over.

I have a question, though. What affect does attempting another revolution of a jump have on the jump you had? I have read that so and so was having trouble with the 3Lutz/2flip for example, because they had been working on the 3z/3f. Or, if working on the 3A, it can throw off the 2A.

To those of you who skate, what are your thoughts on that. I ride, and I know that when I change one thing, it often affects a few others. Most annoying until I get pulled back together again![/color:1be809e10d]

[originalQA]

Am I the only person who wonders how Jenny can even be considering a quad when all her triples are weak, she has no height on her jumps, little speed, very bare presentation, flutz worse than Sarah, underrotations, etc.?
I think she needs to go back to square one and fix the underlying problems before upping the ante.
Just my opinion and not a bash. I think Jenny is a cute girl.....

[AxelAnnie22]

[quote:cabb1c91d8][color=darkred:cabb1c91d8]Am I the only person who wonders how Jenny can even be considering a quad when all her
triples are weak, she has no height on her jumps, little speed, very bare presentation, flutz
worse than Sarah, underrotations, etc.?[/color:cabb1c91d8][/quote:cabb1c91d8]

[color=blue:cabb1c91d8]Nope, you are not the only one. When I read the list of things Jenny wanted to work on this season (from her website) I was amazed and impressed. Then, to read she wanted to add a quad - good grief. Didn't she learn from Sasha's attempt at that?

One thing that really stood out for me in Katia's book was her surprise at how quickly American pairs are allowed to start jumps and throws. In Russia you skate, and skate and skate to achieve flow, speed, control, good clean edges before you even think of leaping and twising in the air.

Jenny said that she has so much to work on that she couldn't even set her goals until she saw how things were going. Her only over all goal was to make the World Team. At this point, her work is cut out for her. She has to get in front of two ladies: Michelle, Sasha, Sarah or Angela. And, I think, as we saw with Sasha, and Yoshie Onda, having your eye on that all illusive 3A or Quad can be costly to your overall goals. [/color:cabb1c91d8]

[IgglesII]

[quote:532fc21b8b="originalQA"]Am I the only person who wonders how Jenny can even be considering a quad when all her triples are weak, she has no height on her jumps, little speed, very bare presentation, flutz worse than Sarah, underrotations, etc.?
[/quote:532fc21b8b]

I'm not wondering from that perspective, no - I'm wondering why someone who's got two bum hips would be trying something that could cause a career-ending injury. She's damaged goods. But hey - if she wants to push her luck, no one's gonna be able to stop her. It's her choice.

We just won't have to worry about discussing her in terms of US Ladies medal contenders by the time the next Olympics rolls around, because her hip/hips will have taken her out of the sport long before that.

[adrianchew]

Actually given what radioactive shares with us - its the 3-loop off the end of a 3-lutz that worries me more... the problem with hips seems to be tied to the 3-loop at the end of combos. Search elsewhere - there's been discussions on this before - about the effects of the 3-loop on a body.

[Dustin]

[quote:4c554da464="originalQA"]Am I the only person who wonders how Jenny can even be considering a quad when all her triples are weak, she has no height on her jumps, little speed, very bare presentation, flutz worse than Sarah, underrotations, etc.?
I think she needs to go back to square one and fix the underlying problems before upping the ante.
Just my opinion and not a bash. I think Jenny is a cute girl.....[/quote:4c554da464]

Actually, Jenny does not have weak triples. They are completely rotated and are mostly consistent. They are also pretty solid on landings. The only thing I question is the height, but with work, that will not be the problem.

I think another thing that leads to injuries is people going for something when their body is not strong enough to handle it. If she has been stretching and doing office, I don't really think it will hurt her body. I am sure she knows what she is doing and will not risk another injury. She is not that kind of person.

[blakefan]

I for one hope that all the ladies try quads- I'm tired of watching Michelle Kwan sliding around the ice like some sorry swan. I hope she and other skaters who have tried to hold skating back will fall again.

[b:62fd9e27b9][color=red:62fd9e27b9][i:62fd9e27b9]Please do not do this again. If you have something constructive or even a valid critique, that is acceptable, but outright slams will not be tolerated. -adrianchew-[/i:62fd9e27b9][/color:62fd9e27b9][/b:62fd9e27b9]

[b:62fd9e27b9][color=blue:62fd9e27b9][i:62fd9e27b9]Please also keep the topic on subject in the future. -Dustin-[/i:62fd9e27b9][/color:62fd9e27b9][/b:62fd9e27b9]

[Badams]

well...the trolls have crawled up from under the bridge. how do you contact the moderators?

[i:b6b13378a6]In the topic list, at the top, the Moderators group link is accessible. You can find a list of moderators and PM any one of them. -adrianchew-[/i:b6b13378a6]

[SKATEPOLICE]

[quote:33bd009ac6="radioactive"]I skated with her everyday for the past 3 years, same sessions and she never attempted 3 axels and quads unless she was doing them in Boston without her coach which I doubt. She was working on getting the 2 axel and 3 sals higher which is probably what she is doing now. Right before she had her hip flexor injury she was doing awesome 3 lutz/3 loop. And I use to love her 2axel/1/2 loop/3 sal. Personally I think she did the right thing in changing skating environments and I'd expect her to really improve this coming season.[/quote:33bd009ac6]

Aren't we so lucky to have :twisted: radioactive on this thread? I mean, this person seems to know everything AND everyone! Are you even a skater?

[i:33bd009ac6]SKATEPOLICE you might want to read the posting etiquette section listed under [b:33bd009ac6]FAQ[/b:33bd009ac6]. … Your post has nothing to do with the topic under discussion and would seem to be a personal attack upon and/or disparagement of another member. ~ Jim D~[/i:33bd009ac6]

[i:33bd009ac6]Thanks Jim. I expected this to come up. Yes, radioactive is a skater if you're wondering just check her profile and visit her website. -adrianchew-[/i:33bd009ac6]

[Artistic Skaters]

[quote:af2fb7621b]I couldn't agree with you more, as I see it "x/y people" are more than likely getting in a dig at certain skaters rather than being concerned about those skaters. [/quote:af2fb7621b]
I disagree. I think it's pretty clear it's more of a training issue. There are only so many hours in a day for skaters to plan their training. Those who want to be really strong all around skaters are going to have to set many different priorities at various points during their skating years. That has nothing to do with making "digs at certain skaters", so no need to make digs at posters about it. Instead it seems it would be better to examine in detail the quality of skills & time commitment involved to master them. I also believe it's a little unrealistic physically speaking to expect ladies FS to be on par with mens FS & deem them "lagging behind" because they aren't doing all the big tricks of mens FS just yet.

[cienicsk8]

I think Jenny is a wonderful skater with great potential. She knows what she needs to do and seems to be focused on steadily improving.
I hope the move to Detroit and Callaghan proves beneficial. Hoping to see her on the World team again in '03!
Best wishes to Jenny for the upcoming season :D