'Skategate' still leaves a bad taste

[Dustin]

Some people may want to read this:
http://www.naplesnews.com/02/06/sports/d779695a.htm

[Jim D]

Thanks for posting the link Dustin. … It is an interesting article.

[Debbie S]

I have to agree with Tai Babilonia. The judging mess is a symptom of long-standing problems in skating, and they certainly weren't addressed at the ISU Congress.

I'm puzzled by Christine Brennan's comment about B/S being stripped of their gold medal. I thought that the normal procedure, once the French judge admitted to voting under duress, would have been to void her vote, which would have made the results of the LP a tie. B/S would have won the gold based on their winning the SP.

I do think that S/P should have won the gold in the first place, but I don't like to see an ill-thought-out solution right a situation at the expense of sweeping the root of the problem under the rug.

[leap of faith]

Normal procedure is not only the tainted vote thrown out but the substitue judge's marks would be inserted instead.

This was the Czech judge who voted for Sale and Pelletier and would have given them the LP win.
B&S would have been second and thus relegated to silver.

[Lorelei]

Normal procedure according to who? I thought the substitute judge's marks were only used if a judge became incapacitated.

Since B/S won the short their gold is merited.

[originalQA]

Uhm, I thing all those reasons is why there are 2 Gold winning teams?

[LTM]

You could probably make an argument that a judge voting "under pressure" is incapactated, at least in the sense that he/she is not judging
what they see on the ice but for other reasons
Personally I never really liked the second gold medal on principle but
it was probably the best of the options at the time.
Some of the other options would just have more divisive and just plain
wrong.

[bleu]

**I will post later *** :lol:

[rack]

Thanks for posting the link, Dustin. I would love to have been at that panel discussion (why doesn't C-Span show any of the good stuff!).

[Blue Ridge]

One wonders how many "journalists" can re-hash the same conventional wisdom without ever asking any new questions or challenging any of the prevailing assumptions. :evil:

[AJ Skatefan]

I'm confused. I've heard different explanations that could put either team on top. One: The alternate judge picked Jamie and David so that's who should have won. Two: A tie is broken by the presentation marks in the long program, therefore Elena and Anton should have won. What's the true story? Which rule do they really go by? Maybe that's why they both got the gold......

[loveskating]

Pick your rule!!

IMHO, the simple explanation is that there are contradictory rules because no one contemplated such a situation...the existing rules contemplated OTHER situations.

IMHO, those who vested themselves on one side in this whole sickening affair, like Ms. Brennan, will forever claim that Sale & Peltier "slam dunk" won it...and will pick and choose those rules which support their views...in this case that the gold medal should have been taken from Barezhnaya and Sikharalidze and given to Sale & Peltier ... and [u:ea7c50a184][i:ea7c50a184]vice versa[/i:ea7c50a184][/u:ea7c50a184].

I totally disagree...it was a very close call, could have gone either way, no one had to be corrupt in any manner for the outcome to be as it was originally (and I will never get over the fact that it was Stapleford and Lavoie who originally accused the French judge, and Brennan who wrote about their accusations the very next morning thus giving their accusations positive press, nor will I ever be able to forget the unprecedented manner in which Hamilton and Bezic commentated, which included calling the winner after the 2nd 3throw, with at least 30 seconds remaining in the program and then having a partisan fit right on national television about the outcome) but [i:ea7c50a184]I am ok with the compromise that the two gold medals represent. I had hoped it would be a final resolution of a very, very ugly and emotionally distressing time in figure skating, but probably not.[/i:ea7c50a184]

However, I may never watch the Olympics again, myself.

[Badams]

WOW! i never thought i'd write this...but i agree with loveskating! it was NOT a slam dunk by s/p AT ALL! i believe it could have gone to either team. so the resolution was a bit ant-climatic, but what else could have been done? if either team was granted the silver overall...you would have had a team worthy of gold settling for silver. this is MY opinion so please...spare me the lectures.

[pittypat]

loveskating & badams:

I agree with you both except for the fact that I am not (like loveskating) happy with the co-Gold Medal. What a cop-out!

As for Bezic/Hamilton - I never, ever want to see or hear either one again. :x I am pretty disgusted with the way S/P whined in their interviews, too, until they got their co-Gold Medal. :x

Overall, this entire mess left a very nasty taste in my mouth which won't go away for a very, very long time.

[Blue Ridge]

agree totally with loveskating.
But the second golds should not have been awarded. This was hardly the first time that there have been two gold medal-worthy performances in a competition. Someone has to get the silver in those circumstances and the judges make the call. If you are a skater, commentator, fan, you have to deal with the fact that you won't always agree with the judges.

Amorphous babble about pressure from various sources on one judge is hardly worthy of the kind of scandal that ensued. Undoubtedly, all the judges had to deal with undue pressures of one kind or another. Good luck to anyone who thinks they can erase all politics from skating.

[icenut84]

I'm another one who says it could have gone either way. When I first watched it, I thought S/P had won, but thinking about it I'm not sure. Every skating fan knows that judging is never black and white, never for example a case of saying "Skater X landed 7 triple jumps and Skater Y landed 6 triple jumps, therefore Skater X won hands down". What about height, clean landings, run out? What about technique? What about spins, footwork, in betweens, artistry, presentation? The same can be applied to the pairs situation. S/P were flawless on their elements (whether the throw landings were stepped off of too quickly and not held long enough is another debate). B/S had a couple of tiny errors. Therefore S/P win on the technical side, right? Yup, that happened. Now lets look at the presentation side and the program. S/P did a beautiful program, yes, and were very smooth. But watch it again, and you'll notice that they actually spent 95% of the time either not touching or in an open hold (holding a hand next to each other only). They didn't have many varying steps, they did a LOT of crossovers. B/S had much more varied and interesting in betweens and steps, and were also very smooth. Many people have said that although both programs were beautiful ones, B/S's program was more interesting and more original. My point is, it's not hard to see why judges might mark B/S higher for presentation. Yup, that happened.
So S/P win on the technical mark and B/S win on the presentation side. In figure skating, the presentation mark is used to break the tie and is the more weighted. So B/S won. It's not like they had a splatfest! A toe in after the double axel for Anton (though he already had the landing) and a stiff throw landing. Certainly I don't think it deserved the scandal it got. JMHO.
BTW - how many of us before the Olympics started said "I can't decide, I want them both to win!" ... well, be careful what you wish for! lol

[LTM]

Does it really matter?
Back in 1919 the most some of the most staunch defenders of the Chicago Black Sox - you know, 8 players took money from gamblers
to throw the World Series - was the team who beat the Sox in the World
Series. And for good reason, they didn't want people thinking the only reason they won was that the other team let them.
This situation isn't a whole lot different. You have a judge saying "I was pressured" to more than a one person. For skating results to be believed
judges really have to be "pure" - a concept frankly, a few judges I( and some fans) haven't seemed to figure out yet. Yet this judge, for whatever reason, is basically saying she wasn't. That taints the event.
Like taking gamblers money tainted the 1919 World Series.
It doesn't matter that maybe the Sox were really outplayed. (only diehard baseball types can debate that one) That year's pennant really didn't mean very much and I'm betting many who might be reading this
post are hard pressed to even remember the name of the team who
took the 1919 World Series ( I had to look it up, the Cinninati Reds)
So just maybe in the long run, the ISU did B & S a favor by awarding that second gold medal.

[loveskating]

I could buy into the White Sox analogy except for the fact that the facts are STILL in dispute, this is not finished.

I can't [b:926ab8965c]automatically[/b:926ab8965c] buy into a scenario where two known S&P partisans, Lavoie and Stapleford, are the ones who got all this started...and with more than a little help from Brennan, whose veracity I simply do not respect on any level whatseover and from Bezic/Hamilton commentary that on the spot I found just astonishing and could barely believe was even happening!

She is apparently taking her claim to next level of authorities (probably with the backing of the French Federation, which has the money for a protracted legal fight)...and if her claim gets into a real court, real evidence will be subpoenaed, forthcoming and in boxes, all the parties (and even non-party witnesses) will be deposed, and there will be a final resolution. BTW, perjury is a crime.

Until this is finally resolved, I personally cannot come to conclusions, other than that the whole thing was outrageous and fishy and made me have knots in my stomach for a week worrying about Sale & Peltier and Barezhnaya and Sik, both of whom I love.

[LTM]

Personally I wouldn't pin a whole lot of hope on "the next level" of appeal.
I mean, even with the money of the French Federation, neither the ISU
or the CAS has any kind of power to say, subpoena documents or tap
phones or check bank accounts, they kind of thing ou would need to
make a charge of collusion between Stapleford, Lavoie, and Brennen
and make it stick. (if there was collusion which it's seems is what is being alleged)
I suppose if one decided to sue that would be different but of course that
might blow up in one's face, after all, both sides get to collect evidence
then.
I fail to see how accusing somebody else of cheating changes anything
it just appears that more officials are doing it hence SLC is even less
credible than it is now.
In the short term I guess, it's terribly important for one couple to been
seen as outskating the other, but frankly in eighty-three years it would be
nice
if figure skating were still around and not confined to some dustbin of
sport history for lack anyone getting a handle on it's credibility problems.

[bleu]

You know we can debate and debate until pigs fly but we can't deny the following fact:

- S&P got the gold and B&S kept their gold. And lastly, the Olympics are over.

Now some people would have liked S&P to keep the silver but you know what...I strongly believe it wasn't meant to be. Talk about luck and having 'things happening at the right time':

1. After 8 months into a partnership, they come into the skating world in 1999 and BANG win Skate America. From there on they won all GP events except worlds 2000 and the TL 2000.

2. Lori Nichols. To be honest, they were quite sloppy before Lori Nichols.

3. Last year, everyone was talking about Jamie's jumping problems. So, they fired their coach and came back to land those SBSs and 2As WHEN IT MATTERED THE MOST. I am sure if they had failed these jumps in the olympics, they would have won silver. In other words, they had to work on their weaknesses or be 2X better than B&S in order to win the gold. No one was going to cut some slack for them. So fire the coach and practice practice pracitce they did.

4. They kept making mistakes in the Orchid program...I think a special angel or God wanted them to choose the Love Story LP for the olympics.

5. Another interesting thing is NBC. Why did NBC decide to support them? a coincident? I don't think so. IMO, it was the angel or God at work.

6. The Olympics in North America...a coincident as well? I don't think so.

7. Having a bad skate in the nationals. That experience woke them up.

8. Skating two clean programs in the same rink a year ago. The only clean skate in that year. I think that prepared them for the olympics.

9. winning the world before an olympics. It surely kept them in the spotlight going into the games.

10. lastly and most importantly, they are were ON on that night.


Another point but I don't know if it is correct:

11. The substitute judge(CZE) - voted for S&P

[pittypat]

bleu:

#5 & 6: raises issues that are pretty obvious: S/P are a North American team and the commentators for NBC were both North American - do you really think they were capable of being unbiased? No way. Bezic interviewed S/P after the competition was over and before the co-Gold was awarded, and the fact that Bezic just fawned over them (her pathetic question to Jamie: "how can you not become bitter?" or some such garbage as that) almost made me throw up. Frankly, I think S/P should be very grateful to Bezic/Hamilton and the North American press or they would never have received that co-Gold medal.

David P., was asked (prior to the Olympics) why they decided to skate to "Love Story". His idiotic answer was that it was "an American love story and the Olympics are in the United States". "Love Story" [b:4a88c01872]isn't[/b:4a88c01872] an "American love story" is it just a sappy love story/movie that just happend to be American made with American actors. It is a "love story" that could apply to alot of countries.

IMO, S/P's choice to go with "Love Story" was due to the fact that they thought they could garner support from the crowd with this program (which was mostly North American) and because they knew they had a lesser chance of beating B/S if they skated to "Orchid". I think it was a cowardly choice but it worked for them and they got what they wanted.

Yes, it leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth and probably always will. :x

[olivia]

I don't blame countries, the skaters, the federations, the media, any individuals in particular, or the fans. The way I look at it, this scenario was just bound to happen to someone, someday because of the way figure skating judging has always been and will, no doubt, continue to be. Lots of different circumstances came together to create the B&S/S&P debacle. And, yes, another scandal will occur. We'll all be bit@hing and debating about it. We'll probably still continue to watch figure skating anyway and discuss how the judging can be improved. And, the world will definitely continue to turn.

For the record, IMO, the LPs of B&S/S&P were soooooo close and both worthy of the Gold and so beautiful as well. I wasn't jumping up and down after S&P's skate, I was scratching my head wondering what the heck the judges would do. Never in my wildest imagination did I guess at what would ultimately occur. I didn't agree with the award of the second gold medal either. And I sure don't agree with the "changes" the ISU made to the scoring system. Neither action has done any good.

O-

[loveskating]

Well, first of all, I think it was so close, and they generally were close, and I too was saying to myself, "Oh boy, I'd hate to be a judge", and I'd have been happy whichever way the judges went, it was that close IMHO and both of those pairs are just fabulous, in different ways, although B&S are more accomplished and in a totally clean skate, unbeatable, IMHO.

Ok, but, AFTER a week of the whole SHEBANG, I was glad it was resolved by the two gold medals...glad neither pair SKATERS had to be utterly humiliated...OTOH, I'd have preferred that the whole SHEBANG fomented by commentators, etc. etc. had never happened, but that was not my choice.

I just sincerely hope it never happens again. Sadly, horribly, it probably will, and then I'll have to see if I can break my life long habit of loving figure skating.

[bleu]

Pittypat wrote:

#5 & 6: raises issues that are pretty obvious: S/P are a North American team and the commentators for NBC were both North American - do you really think they were capable of being unbiased? No way. Bezic interviewed S/P after the competition was over and before the co-Gold was awarded, and the fact that Bezic just fawned over them (her pathetic question to Jamie: "how can you not become bitter?" or some such garbage as that) almost made me throw up. Frankly, I think S/P should be very grateful to Bezic/Hamilton and the North American press or they would never have received that co-Gold medal.

Of course S&P are well known in North America. But I know of fans in Europe and Asia. Whether or not the North America press, NBC and company(Sandra and Scott) were biased is not S&P's problem. Why? the last time I checked, NBC decided to support S&P not the other way around. And this was before anyone knew what was going to happen.

Pittypat also wrote:

David P., was asked (prior to the Olympics) why they decided to skate to "Love Story". His idiotic answer was that it was "an American love story and the Olympics are in the United States". "Love Story" isn't an "American love story" is it just a sappy love story/movie that just happend to be American made with American actors. It is a "love story" that could apply to alot of countries.


You are right that love story is pretty universal and sappy too. Heck, the year the movie came out my mother was vacationing in Africa. She saw it in Africa and fell in love with it. But I need to clarify something in this quote: Just before the GPF, I recall reading a post on the FSU site in which someone quoted Gwendal explaing why they chose Martin Luther King for their free dance program. He said "because the olympics are in America and Martin Luther King is a powerful civil right icon etc..." Sound to me like what David said in above quote. Now, does that make Gwendal idiotic too? You tell me... Personally, I don't think so. But then again, that is just my honest opinion.

[Gaela]

Some people thought it was a 'slam dunkl' because they thought both teams were so evenly matched that should one go clean and the other make the slightest mistake, the one that went clean would win--sort of like Plushenko and Yagudin--could Plush have won with his one foot landing on the 4-3-3 and doubling of the triple versus a clean Yags? I saw the pairs like that, so thought it was a slam dunk, but my hubby was watching it with me, thought Sale and pelletier were flat, would have given to B&S. Artistic being the tie breaker, the decision was defensible.

The most horrifed I've ever been about judging was with Elvis at the Albertville Olympics, when he finished 7th with a clean LP that technically rivalled Petrenko. I wasn't horrified at the result in SLC, just depressed--I felt S&P didn't have a chance going in, that the dominance of Russia precluded them winning GOld. Also I was annoyed they hadn't gone the extra mile to prove beyond a doubt that they deserved it, by skating Orchid and doing it perfectly and adding more difficulty.

The Stapleford-Benoit-Brennan conspiracy is an interesting theory, but I don't think the media could have conspired to make this happen. I find it easier to believe that Le Gougne was involved with Stapleford and Benoit, and made her confession knowing full well what she was doing.

So maybe corruption from one side battled corruption from another side in SLC. Given that the North American media would of course back the North American team--well, someone didn't play their cards correctly. However their was more to it than that, and the decision to award the second Gold medal was made by Speedy, not to please the media IMO but to avoid a hearing by the Independent Sports Tribunal, which would have dealt with the problem if he hadn't.

It doesn't matter anymore who should have won or really did won, those who thought S&P should have won are happy, those who thought B&S did win are still blaming the press. But it comes down to the figure skating world and its corruption, on all sides. I would just like to have the truth come down, but I doubt it ever will.

[KittyKins]

I suppose this will be one of those things that people will be agruing about for some time, but...

I think that awarding a second set of gold medals was the only way to resolve the situation fairly. If only one set of gold medals were awarded, then B & S should have received silver. Now, in saying that, I wouldn't have wanted the switch to be made because that would be to penalize the skaters. Don't forget that the French judge signed an affadavite that she was pressured to vote for the Russians.

The media was not inventing a problem, only reporting one IMHO. Sandra Besic and Lori Nichol are some of the most talented chorographers around, so I trust their opinions. S & P were also inspired in their program, not just B & S.

See my other post, but the Russians did make a number of minor errors and there is no way any of the judges should have tied the two teams for technical. Perhaps the tie breaking rule should be with the technical mark or else fsing will not have the respect it deserves as a legitimate sport.

I do not agree with some of the comments that J & D should have kept the silver. Just because some bad decisions in the past have happened, doesn't mean that this particular situation shouldn't have been "made right". Giving them the gold was not undeserved, but the only way to right a bad situation. Okay so the media helped bring it about. Well, it's about time that the ISU was pressured into doing the right thing.

The referree disagreed with the decision, and personally I think in such situations "the whistle should be blown" and their should be a delay in awarding the medals until it can all be sorted out. It left a bad taste in everyone's mouth because the ISU was in a position of "undoing" what was already "decided".

In closing, J & D were a class act before, during, and after the event. I have great respect for them as athletes and individuals. They were not not being whiney, no way. They deserved that gold and showed what it means to be Olympians. JMHO!

[AJ Skatefan]

Jamie and David may have deserved the gold but Elena and Anton did too. Jamie and David's whining was disrespectful to Elena and Anton. What made me mad was the way the media refused to explain to the public that is was possible that Elena and Anton could have won fair and square i.e., they had more intricate in-betweens and changes of direction. They did not explain the criteria that makes up the presentation score. So the public is left thinking that the presentation score involves emoting on the ice, nothing more. Jamie and David did a great job of emoting and were technically cleaner. It was soooo close, it really could have gone either way. That was not explained to the general public. If the french judge hadn't said what she did, the public would still be under the impression that Jamie and David wuz robbed. I guess with the french judge's statement, there was no other solution but to give the second gold.

[Gaela]

I do agree with you that " What made me mad was the way the media refused to explain to the public that is was possible that Elena and Anton could have won fair and square" BUT Debbi Wilkes did offer an explanation. However, as I posted above, some of us thought it was a slam dunk. Many of us know re Jamie and David that that the presentation score involves emoting on the ice, nothing more. We thought they had an ability to tell a story in rare and special way, and also had superior musicality. I'm not arguing, because the presentation mark is the tie breaker, and this gives judges the latitude to award the skate they think superior, and there are reasons to argue for the artistic superiority of Elena and Anton, for sure.

However, the media had heard rumors of politicking beforehand, so there really was no fairness about the competition.

[HotIce]

IMHO Jamie and David were flat.
I thought it was the worse performance of Love Story they had every given.
They should have skated Orchid.
I thought it was a wonderful program and if they had spend more time on it they would have gotten the bugs out and done well with it.
Just a question. Are we going to have to hear about this for the next 4 or more years? I hope not!

[Gaela]

I thought it was the worse performance of Love Story they had every given.
MY HUBBY AGREES, FLAT WAS HIS WORD EXACTLY.

They should have skated Orchid.
I thought it was a wonderful program and if they had spend more time on it they would have gotten the bugs out and done well with it. ITA/

Just a question. Are we going to have to hear about this for the next 4 or more years? I hope not![/quote]

YES< you are going to have to hear about this for the next four years or more. If figure skating was reduced to simple athletic rules and procedures for judging the programs would become far less exciting than LS and Meditation, just becoming athletic exercsises.

This is like Michelle and Tara with the addeed spicy twist of internation politics. Live with it, or switch your sport of choice to. . .something else,

[jcspkbfan]

Uhh, S&P's performance of Love Story at the 2002 Olympics was worse than their 2000 Worlds performance?? Sorry, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on [b:28659288cf]that[/b:28659288cf] one! :roll:

[Bosco]

I love how Jaime and David are now the collective anti-christ. :roll:
Perhaps we should just lock up these vile, untalented heathens in some dark, damp cell with a loaf of crusty bread and some tap water left in a bowl on the floor.

After all, they won Olympic Gold! PLUS, they should have known that beating the russians fair and square (and my pet said fair so it must be the right decision) :wink: is just morally reprehensible! :twisted:
To think, a great skate undid all the manouevering and brownosing Moskvina did with the judges! Attention was actually diverted from Elena's big baby blues and for a second people didn't see her as some sad victim of fate who deserves a break! 8O Why land the jumps when you have good "line" ? (that should do)

And to boot, the head of the Russian skating federation says B/S were perfect and could not be beat by no skanky canadian people. Why, after B/S skated he was so sure of their victory that he jumped up and spilled some very expensive caviar all over the laps of the members of the french and israeli delegations! (so excited was he)
:wink: :twisted:

[Blue Ridge]

Well, if we're going to be that way about it Bosco, :twisted: I hear that Jamie and David are planning to skate their SOI program to "Take the Money and Run!" :twisted:

We ARE going to hear about this for four and more years, but does it have to go to the level of the Michelle vs Tara stuff? I don't think so. Two great pairs, two very different styles, some very different opinions on the judging at the Olympics; no one is evil here. Granted Elena and Anton are the better skaters and deserved the gold :twisted: ...shut up Blue Ridge :lol: :lol: :lol:

Let's go for some measure of agreeing to disagree or its gonna get ugly.

[Lee]

And if it gets any uglier than it already is, this thread will be history.

There is no question the pairs event at SLC was very controversial on several fronts. There is no question that there are still heated feelings on all sides. However, the internet skating world still hasn't completely recovered, IMO, from the Tara/Michelle wars of post-'98 and I would hate to think the same kind of illogical, nonsensical, trite fanaticism might again rule for the next few years.

It is perfectly alright to have an opinion on how things should have gone. It is NOT alright to slag other people's opinions or use less than a civil manner in trying to get your point across.

Have a nice day! :)

[HotIce]

Thank you lee.
Bosco, why so bitter?
Being able to accept that people often have different opinions than what you have is part of being mature.
It's not as if other opinions affect your own life, you know.
Just ignore what you don't like, that's what most people do.

[Bosco]

Ever hear of having a sense of humour about the whole deal, Hotice? :roll: It's not the biggest event in the world! (at least not anymore) :wink:

Notice how I was the one having a little fun, so I'm the bitter one, huh? Is it worth it to bash another poster to defend one's favourites? You aren't personally involved.
It's only mature to respect another's opinion, Hotice, and not fly off the handle with an innocent little post. 8)

[HotIce]

Bosco, we all read your posts about this subject at FSW.
So, no we didn't think you were joking this time when you didn't seem to be joking before.
Why are you always so rude and insulting to everyone?
It's completely unnecessary.
I for one don't intend to argue with you so you will have to argue alone.

[pittypat]

[quote:dde0e85511="Bosco"]
After all, they won Olympic Gold! :wink: :twisted:[/quote:dde0e85511]

Sorry, but they did not [b:dde0e85511]win[/b:dde0e85511] the Olympic Gold Medal - it was [b:dde0e85511]given[/b:dde0e85511] to them because the IOC/ISU caved in to the intense media pressure surrounding the controversy of the pairs medal podium.

No matter how much you might want to re-write Olympic history, Bosco, you cannot change the fact that the Olympic Gold Medal was [b:dde0e85511]won[/b:dde0e85511] by the Russians.

[loveskating]

[quote:4a88c01872="Bosco"]I love how Jaime and David are now the collective anti-christ. :roll: [/quote:4a88c01872] [color=blue:4a88c01872]No one said that. Most said it was very close, most said they love both pairs.[/color:4a88c01872]

[quote:4a88c01872="Bosco"]Perhaps we should just lock up these vile, untalented heathens in some dark, damp cell with a loaf of crusty bread and some tap water left in a bowl on the floor.:[/quote:4a88c01872] [color=red:4a88c01872]No one even came close to saying or implying that, to the contrary! Once the whole mess started I didn't even care who won anymore, and was just very concerned that EITHER of these pairs would be somehow harmed.[/color:4a88c01872]

[quote:4a88c01872="Bosco"]After all, they won Olympic Gold! PLUS, they should have known that beating the russians fair and square (and my pet said fair so it must be the right decision) :wink: is just morally reprehensible! :twisted:
To think, a great skate undid all the manouevering and brownosing Moskvina did with the judges! Attention was actually diverted from Elena's big baby blues and for a second people didn't see her as some sad victim of fate who deserves a break! 8O Why land the jumps when you have good "line" ? (that should do) .:[/quote:4a88c01872] [color=darkblue:4a88c01872]You just said some awful, and factually incorrect things about Moskvina and Elena...and you changed Anton's bad runout on a 2 axel landing into not landing a jump! That was the only real mistake B&S made in that program...which was reflected in the lower technical mark. Much was made of being slightly forward on the throws, but Jamie was also forward on the last throw, plus S&P deffinately lost unison on the SBS spins (sit spins) so factually, actually, they made technical mistakes too...and S&P did not win a gold medal...it was awarded to them by the ISU/IOC.[/color:4a88c01872]
[quote:4a88c01872="Bosco"]And to boot, the head of the Russian skating federation says B/S were perfect and could not be beat by no skanky canadian people. Why, after B/S skated he was so sure of their victory that he jumped up and spilled some very expensive caviar all over the laps of the members of the french and israeli delegations! (so excited was he)
:wink: :twisted:[/quote:4a88c01872] Never heard this before...is it true or another exaggeration or even a statement motivated by some kind of cultural bias?

[LilRedRidingHood]

I guess I must have missed something. I took Bosco's post referred to by loveskating to have been written sarcastically only to point out how some people feel David and Jamie had something to do with the outcome.

I didn't think he/she was insinuating that people had literally[/i:5a4243b1a5] called J&D evil, vile, and the anti-christ. I simply took it as a post that attempted to point out there are two perspectives, and plenty of unwarranted slings and barbs have been slung at Jamie and David.

I guess I need to read more carefully.

[Lee]

Stick a fork in it...done like dinner...

This topic will continue to get shut down until people can discuss it without slagging the daylights out of each other, and discussing the situation in a civil, rational manner.