USFSA Letter to Governing Council Delegates

[Skatewind]

Read this on the USFSA page this morning:

http://www.usfsa.org/news/2002-03/delegateletter.htm?siteid=983

[adrianchew]

You might want to read this ongoing discussion at FSU...

http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5324

In that discussion, Morry Stillwell, one of the past president's that supports LeFevre's statements, tells the actual consequences facing the USFSA from the ISU, which is far from the scene that LeFevre depicts.

I suspect LeFevre's letter to the delegates was designed to instill fear in them should they choose to support individuals who are supportive of the WSF. This letter is nothing more than a method by which LeFevre is attempting to get more votes for himself and his buddies, by trying to discredit others, with a false picture of the realities of the situation.

Recognize that this letter is not an official USFSA statement from the USFSA executive.

[loveskating]

From what I read, that is merely Stillwell's "bet"...my bet is that if the USFSA chooses to join the WSF according to its own procedures, then the ISU will IMMEDIATELY reconstitute the USFSA based on all USFSA members who support the ISU, and throw all WSFers out, summarily.

That is certainly what I would do. The WSF has openly declared itself hostile to the ISU, and has openly claimed it seeks to destroy it, and has openly claimed it intends to be the international federation!

The WSF would then have a bloated bureaucratic membership but with no ties whatsoever to the ISU or the IOC...leaving them basically powerless...and there would still be a USFSA in America, which would have the full backing of the ISU and IOC. From what I've read, the IOC is not about to endorse the ruination of the ISU that the WSF openly seeks.

I just hope and pray that ALL the amateur skaters keep their mouth shut and options open...don't let the war among the bureaucrats ruin you! Don't get drawn into their little power struggles!

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by adrianchew
Recognize that this letter is not an official USFSA statement from the USFSA executive.
I don't understand what you are saying here. The letter is from John LeFevre, the Executive Director of the USFSA & he officially operates from that position.

[adrianchew]

Originally posted by Skatewind

I don't understand what you are saying here. The letter is from John LeFevre, the Executive Director of the USFSA & he officially operates from that position.

He indeed does, but he wrote that letter as an individual with endorsements from past presidents. This letter does not have the endorsement of the USFSA executive... read it carefully, LeFevre is addressing the delegates.

This is the USFSA's Executive Director's letter to the delegates, not the USFSA. For it to be as claimed, USFSA letter to the delegates, it would need the stamp of approval from the Executive Committee, which this letter does not have.

LeFevre's actions seem to be almost an abuse of his office, to mislead others... this is his position on the matter, not the USFSA's official position.

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by adrianchew
He indeed does, but he wrote that letter as an individual with endorsements from past presidents. This letter does not have the endorsement of the USFSA executive... read it carefully, LeFevre is addressing the delegates.
Executive, Executive Board & Executive Director have different definitions & mean different people & things. It is within the realm of the Executive Director to write about business & finances which is what he's done. IMO personally the letter is focused on the business end instead of the skating end, but that is primarily what someone in this position is supposed to do. Are you mixing the terms executive & Executive Board? If a bylaw or rule has been broken, can you specify what it is?

[speedy]

I took this letter for what it is...a veiled threat against delegates that may vote for the WSF. Most of the arguments are based on what bad things MAY happen if the USFSA allies with the WSF; of course none of the many GOOD things that would happen are considered. I don't understand Morry Stillwell's position in that FSU thread...his name is attached to that letter, but he was criticizing the letter? Was he really aware his name would be attached to this? I find the comments in this letter regarding working with the ISU for change laughable...amazing. From USFSA statements I've recently read you would think the USFSA and ISU are long-time lovers now that the WSF popped up. ;)

[Rae]

Can someone help me with some details here? A number of years ago when the GP series came in, wasn't Michelle "compelled" to compete in two grand Prix meets if she wanted to compete at Worlds? Didn't the ISU (through the USFSA) almost hold her to ransom in this situation. She wanted to do a few pro/ams and glide through the year competively prior to nationals and Worlds and she HAD to turn that around and compete at Skate America?I can't remember the carry on precisely.

I could well be wrong, but remember thinking at the time that it was unfair on her and she 1) should have the right to choose and 2)the USFSA should have said to the ISU - shove off!

[Norlite]

Originally posted by adrianchew
This letter is nothing more than a method by which LeFevre is attempting to get more votes for himself and his buddies.


Adrian, John LeFevre's position is Administrative only. He is staff. No one votes for him. He was hired.

[blue111moon]

The WSF has already attempted to tell the world the good things that will result from federations' joining them. I saw this letter as an attempt to present the flip side by people whose job it is to know how things work at the highest level. I took it as informative, not manipulative. I see it in the same light as a doctor informing a patient of all the possible outcomes of a procedure. Most of them won't happen but they have to tell you that they might, if only to avoid lawsuits.

The delegates aren't stupid. (at least, I'm not, and neither are most of the ones I know.) Give us a little credit for not being sheep blindly herded in whatever direction the PTB wants us to go. It's important to know the possible consequences of any vote. Mr. Lefevre is in a position to know more about how USFSA's relationship with the USOC, the IOC and the ISU works than most of us. I thank him for attempting to get the word out to the delegates before Governing Council.

The people who endorsed the letter also have nothing to gain from doing so. They aren't running for office and for the most part are well-respected and honorable people with vast experience and knowledge of skating on all levels.

[Skatewind]

Glad to hear you will be a delegate blue111moon.

[Mel On Ice]

Being a first-time delegate and the sole representative of my club, I'm anxious about this whole situation. I think the WSF is a step in the right direction; however, that is MY opinion and I'd hate to jeopardize our club's standing with the USFSA.

How dramatic is the politics and the repercussions? Is there any risk that if I show support or even interest in WSF that the USFSA would put my club on probation? I have to be concerned about the kids in my club, especially those who are working hard to make it past regionals and sectionals this year.

I'm still looking forward to going; it will certainly be more adventerous than I previously imagined.

[Sylvia]

Mel On Ice,

I really hope you can make the WSF "town meeting" on Thursday at 8:30 pm - I for one whould be interested to hear your take on how it went:
http://www.worldskating.org/news/presentation-flyer-08may2003.shtml

[Skatewind]

To me the main purpose of being a delegate is to vote for pending USFSA issues & hopefully guide the direction of the USFSA while ensuring the interests of your club & it's members. It is important to become familiar with the diverse views of the members of your club to give you an idea of how you can vote for things in their best interests while also looking out for the overall best interests of the USFSA. There will always be times when it's fairly easy to determine your position on an issue & other times when opinions are split down the middle both at the club level & the USFSA level.

The WSF does not have items of business scheduled for the upcoming meeting because they have not been conducting their business through regular USFSA committees, other than an Executive vote at Worlds initiated by a founding WSF organizer. I don't understand why WSF wants to force their agenda on the USFSA at this meeting without working through the regular committees & procedures like everyone else. If the committee handling redistricting can reevaluate year after year & get their business on the agenda each year using standard USFSA procedures, then why shouldn't a new group that began this past March be expected to do the same? IMO WSF wants too much, too soon at this year's meeting & it would be in the best interests of the skaters, USFSA & clubs not to support any motion they may try to initiate at this time.

[speedy]

How dramatic is the politics and the repercussions? Is there any risk that if I show support or even interest in WSF that the USFSA would put my club on probation?

This is what I meant by veiled threats. Yes, they're getting information out to delegates...and this is the kind of reaction above I would expect after reading that letter. Of course you're not "blind sheep"...otherwise they wouldn't have taken the time to even put this out. Now that there's actually a threat to their powerbase they're pushing hard to get their side out. Too bad they didn't show this kind of initiative before now in trying to reform from "within" the ISU. :roll: I just find it humorous that all of a sudden they're basically publicly cozying up to this international organization that so many of us detest in the name of "the athletes." The next few months should be very interesting.

[Mel On Ice]

Sylvia - our club has 6 synchro teams are we are thinking of adding a few more more at an introductory level, so I will be attending the synchro forum at that time and unable to make the meeting. That decision is truly in the best interest of my club.

Thanks to those who have offered differing opinions on this. It will be interesting to see what happens.

[Spider68]

http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612342065

What saddens me about this entire fiasco is the "veiled" threats being launched by the status-quo to anyone or any entity that is questioning and asking "why not an alternative"?

The entire skating situation almost parallels the the USOC situation. After a while, the old regime is so settled in, any change or hint of change is construed as an attack or effort to oust them.

For this individual, simplistically, it would appear that figure skating needs its own Olympic federation, separate and independent of speed skating. Likewise for speed skating.

The USFSA has the clout and ability to make the move -- I would guarantee that other federations will fall in. I hope that the delegates will take a stand and lead its leaders.

Peace

[WeBeEducated]

When does a dying regime ever go peacefully?
Of course the letter was intended as a warning.
John is part of that old school of USFSA officials. They paid their dues over the years and dont want to lose any of the perks that they have built up. The USFSA is thick with alliances, perks, and manipulation ...and their ideology doesnt encourage change or new directions.
I would love for the delegates to vote without fear of reprisals from the USFSA.
It is in the best interests of the athletes to turn these old systems upside down. I wish the athletes would actually be MORE vocal, not less, and I think the USFSA is totally underrepresented by athletes in terms of decision making processes.

[loveskating]

Originally posted by speedy
This is what I meant by veiled threats. Yes, they're getting information out to delegates...and this is the kind of reaction above I would expect after reading that letter. Of course you're not "blind sheep"...otherwise they wouldn't have taken the time to even put this out. Now that there's actually a threat to their powerbase they're pushing hard to get their side out. Too bad they didn't show this kind of initiative before now in trying to reform from "within" the ISU. :roll: I just find it humorous that all of a sudden they're basically publicly cozying up to this international organization that so many of us detest in the name of "the athletes." The next few months should be very interesting.

Edits made below in response to Adrian's correct criticism of me.

I suppose that the WSF has done nothing to create this situation, then? They have no responsiblity for the atmosphere?

First the WSF has said bad things about Cinquanta, then David Dore, then the entire Canadian Federation, then Phyllis, now it seems it is saying that the entire existing USFSA leadership is making "veiled threats" when it seems to me that the LeFevre letter was merely stating the consequences. Taken altogether, this seems polarizing, and not serious, nitty gritty.

My point is that I would like to know exactly what the WSF thinks the consequences for the skaters at all levels would be if the USFSA affiliated with the WSF? If you disagree with the LeFevre letter, then state specifically how it would be different than that instead of just making a generalization that the letter represents a "veiled threat"???????

Don't kill the messenger if you don't like the message.

[adrianchew]

Originally posted by loveskating

First you attacked Cinquanta, then you attacked David Dore, then the entire Canadian Federation, then you attacked Phyllis, now you are attacking the entire USFSA leadership as evil and as making "veiled threats"! This is troublesome...to say the least.

Please do not accuse others of attacking anyone - a discussion is a discussion, and accusations such as this serve no purpose. Discuss the point, and refrain from saying so and so is attacking anyone in the future. Thanks. ~adrianchew~

[DancerFan]

Originally posted by WeBeEducated
When does a dying regime ever go peacefully?
Of course the letter was intended as a warning.
John is part of that old school of USFSA officials. They paid their dues over the years and dont want to lose any of the perks that they have built up. The USFSA is thick with alliances, perks, and manipulation ...and their ideology doesnt encourage change or new directions.
I would love for the delegates to vote without fear of reprisals from the USFSA.
It is in the best interests of the athletes to turn these old systems upside down. I wish the athletes would actually be MORE vocal, not less, and I think the USFSA is totally underrepresented by athletes in terms of decision making processes.

COULDN'T AGREE MORE!!!! Down with the good ole boys club!!

[sonora]

Mel, I'm sorry the conflict in times prevents you from attending the WSF meeting.

For those others considering going, we are all a little frightened of this, particularly after the threats by SkateCanada. The fact that we fear going to a meeting and learning about another point of view is indicative of the trouble we are in. I am a little fearful too, but I am going to conquer my fears and do the right thing. The sport will not be worth it if we do not save it.

[Arsenette]

Originally posted by Spider68
http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612342065

What saddens me about this entire fiasco is the "veiled" threats being launched by the status-quo to anyone or any entity that is questioning and asking "why not an alternative"?

The entire skating situation almost parallels the the USOC situation. After a while, the old regime is so settled in, any change or hint of change is construed as an attack or effort to oust them.

For this individual, simplistically, it would appear that figure skating needs its own Olympic federation, separate and independent of speed skating. Likewise for speed skating.

The USFSA has the clout and ability to make the move -- I would guarantee that other federations will fall in. I hope that the delegates will take a stand and lead its leaders.

Peace

Spider68 - what does your link have anything to do with the thread (or even your post? :?:

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by Spider68
I hope that the delegates will take a stand and lead its leaders.
My hope is that the delgates could have been given sufficient time to review comprehensive information & make an informed decision, but it doesn't seem like that will happen according to this morning's news:

Article about Governing Council Meeting (http://www.gatorsports.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20030506&Category=APS&ArtNo=305061012&Ref=AR)
"We expect a good, healthy discussion," Pfenning said. "And that the governing council will follow the leadership of the executive committee and endorse the principles and the concept of the WSF."

That's where things get sticky. Most delegates are concerned with issues that affect their clubs, not the sport's international politics. They might not fully understand the problems that could accompany supporting the WSF.

[adrianchew]

Originally posted by Skatewind

My hope is that the delgates could have been given sufficient time to review comprehensive information & make an informed decision

My hope is that delegates will be able to make their decisions based on the information, and not fears of possible repercussions or threats by the current USFSA upper management.

Given the dark cloud of threats that already seems to have pre-determined some delegates stands, my greatest fear is that the delegates will not be able to act from information but out of fear. Perhaps some delegates will just abstain from voting instead of voting out of fear.

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by adrianchew
My hope is that delegates will be able to make their decisions based on the information, and not fears of possible repercussions or threats by the current USFSA upper management.
I have not seen where the USFSA has threatened any of their members. Where has this happened? I do agree delegates should be able to make decisions based on information & not fears. My point is there is not enough information available at this time & that's one of the reasons why this is not currently on the meeting schedule.

[Ellyn]

Originally posted by Skatewind
I have not seen where the USFSA has threatened any of their members.

Neither have I.

Where has this happened?

I suspect some people are confusing the Skate Canada stance with that of the USFSA letter and conflating together any position that isn't as supportive of WSF as they would like to see.

[adrianchew]

Originally posted by Skatewind

I have not seen where the USFSA has threatened any of their members. Where has this happened?

It hasn't happened. But some perceive that there is possible dangers as retaliation taken against their club and their skaters, should they show support or even interest in the WSF...

Being a first-time delegate and the sole representative of my club, I'm anxious about this whole situation. I think the WSF is a step in the right direction; however, that is MY opinion and I'd hate to jeopardize our club's standing with the USFSA.

How dramatic is the politics and the repercussions? Is there any risk that if I show support or even interest in WSF that the USFSA would put my club on probation? I have to be concerned about the kids in my club, especially those who are working hard to make it past regionals and sectionals this year.

I'm still looking forward to going; it will certainly be more adventerous than I previously imagined.

[WeBeEducated]

Oh, the fears are realistic! The USFSA is using John Lefevre's letter(front page of the online USFSA website) as a tool to manipulate doubt and fear. The manipulation will be subtle but it is there, and the reason is MONEY!
The USFSA does very very little for its members and athletes considering the amount of money they rake in. Yet in the letter John refers to the possible breakdown of athlete funding if the WSF runs the show. As a member of the USFSA I get my magazine...thats it. No more, no less really than a typical magazine subsription, but hardly a big prize. As a competitive athlete for 10 years my son has received a whopping one time grant of $1000, and his magazine of course. woo-hoo
I would think all that money is going to help mostly the athletes but it isnt. And the people in charge are in fear that their system (that benefits their sideline participation in skating, as officials and judges), will deflate, along with their old school values and perceptions of what the skating world needs in terms of representation.
I am thankful that at least a few brave and insightful souls are moving forward on behalf of athletes and the future of skating.
Nothing has been done by the USFSA for YEARS! why would they do anything now? they wont, they havnt, and they are the kind of people/organization that protects the status quo. I am somewhat skeptical of any effort on their part to create change. It just has been too long. I am 100% in support of a new organization, and where it lead I will happily follow becasue I am sick of the USFSA's politics and hypocrisy

[Ellyn]

Um, the WSF is seeking to become the *international* governing body for figure skating. They want the USFSA to support their existence now, and to become a member federation later when it's appropriate to do so.

They are not seeking to replace the USFSA.

If the USFSA does support the WSF, that will have no direct bearing on how the USFSA conducts its own business domestically.

The only way WSF and internal USFSA change would be connected would be if different individuals come to power within the USFSA who want to change things both internally and internationally.

We know of a few prominent USFSA members who support or might support the WSF (and several others who do not and would not). Have any of these individuals done anything to suggest they would also work for change within the USFSA that would affect domestic programs in a way you would prefer? Not that I'm aware of, but maybe you know more than I do about that?

[LovesSk8ting]

In his letter to the delegates, John LeFevre said that "the USFSA's Executive Committee has supported its [WSF's] founding principles, which are the founding principles of every sporting organization. These principles follow those also approved by the Executive Committee on March 6, prior to the existence of the WSF." The USFSA was founded in 1921! Why would the USFSA, on March 6, 2003, just happen to be approving similar principles as the WSF? At the Governing Council, will LeFevre tell the delegates that the ISU also approved WSF's principles on March 6th? Of course the USFSA will continue "working with the ISU for desirable change."

If every sporting organization approves of WSF's principles, why not allow WSF to show how to LEGALLY practice these principles? LeFevre sounds like he is part of Otto's empire, while the rest of us have no role and no control.

[loveskating]

"I get my magazine...thats it. No more, no less really than a typical magazine subsription, but hardly a big prize. As a competitive athlete for 10 years my son has received a whopping one time grant of $1000, and his magazine of course. woo-hoo. I would think all that money is going to help mostly the athletes but it isnt."

Well, that is a good point, I have to admit, and corresponds with my information prior to all this contention... it costs at a local rink in NYC about $1,000 a week to train at the elite level (not including costumes and clothing or skates). The skater pays the coach even for competitions, including expenses.

This is not about just your son, this is about the competitive quality of skaters in America...if we don't support them, then how can they be world class, and including at the entry level? Now, we are getting only about 20-30% of the existing talent pool due to economics! This is certainly a change I would like to see, more support for the skaters with talent and drive, maybe even a specific percentage of the yearly Federation budget and a due process for determination of talent?

Factually, where does the money currently go?

P.S. there is also this view that no one should be complicated if put on the elite track...which is also a veiled way of keeping working class kids out of skating beyond a certain point...I think this is wrong, because very talented people are quite often rather complicated. This has been true all throughout history. I don't know where you draw the line, but drawing it with only economics is just wrong.

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by loveskating
Factually, where does the money currently go?
The USFSA is a non-profit which means this information is on the record. I'm at work so don't have time to access it myself right now, but the details are easy to obtain if anyone else has some time to do a little research.

The programs offered by the USFSA to it's members are a really different area than a discussion about the relationship between the WSF & USFSA.

[blue111moon]

USFSA annual financial reports are distributed to all the club delegates as part of the Governing Council report.

[WeBeEducated]

I completely understand that the WSF is not going to replace the USFSA, but hopefully rather the ISU. However, the USFSA claims to be working for change within the existing system, and to use their income for the benefit of members and athletes. John declared in his letter that breaking free from ISU would hinder the extensive $support available to USFSA athletes...and I am just commenting that the $support is minimal if not nonexistant for all but the very few at the very top, so , no big loss for the majority of athletes IF the ISU is replaced.
Dick button is supporting the WSF, as are most of the athletes from what I have heard, as well as Paul Wylie, etc.
Something drastic needs to be done.
The USFSA has accepted the ISU code of conduct! they have agreed to follow it for years. They have played along with the games. they have remained passive.
So I am wondering why they are suddenly so active in their NON support of the WSF??? Afterall, they are usually passive.
Their very fear of the WSF is a good reason to look into it more, and to begin to understand why the WSF is the drastic but much needed step in the better direction.

[haribobo]

:roll: Just playin here, not rolling eyes at anyone