How would you compare Midori Ito with today's skaters

[Aussie Willy]

I still think Midori Ito is the best ever female free skater to have competed. I was watching her SP and LP from 88 Olympics again (taping it for a trade) and I really think her programs from 88 and 89 would give the current crop of skaters (Kwan included) a run for their money. She was so dynamic and exciting. Who cares that she wasn't "artistic". Her skating just blew me away and even today I don't get as excited watching most ladies. I can just watch Midori again and again and go WOW!

[skatingvision]

Also, Midori had huge jumps and speed speed speed. I'm sure she would give skaters today a run for their money (at her prime anyway).

[essence_of_soy]

I think the Calgary 88 games is my favourite ladies' singles competition. So many different and terrific freestyle skaters.

Debi Thomas, Lis Manley, Jill Trenary, Caryn Kadavy, Katarina Witt, and especially Midori Ito.

I agree, Aussie Willy. Midori, at her peak, would challenge any of the eligible women skating at the moment. Her Scheherezade free skate from 1990 worlds is my favourite ladies' program, ever.

[Panther2000]

Her prime with todays ladies

No contest. She would come in maybe 3rd.

She can jump yes but, that was it. No edging, bad body positions. & most important no artistic side at all. Her jumps are big yes. but that is all she ever had.

I like her also, because, she is such a sweet woman. Always smiling & seems to be very pleasant. But, that aside. without a almost total makeover for her skating. she would be among the leader in the SP. but would lose her lead when her presentation scores came up. I watched that her porgarms also from 88. Her jumps were big but wild. & that was all she had. She could probably medal if other had alot of mistakes but, she still would get 3rd maybe 2nd.

remember the enitre package. & She just did not have it.

[icenut84]

I disagree. I thought Midori's basic skating and spins were as good as anyone else's. She had amazing jumps but that was not all she had. She wasn't a ballerina but that's not what it's about, IMO. Midori rocks! :mrgreen:

[tidesong]

i'm sorry but no edging? That was the figures era wasn't it? If she didn't have edging then school figures didn't teach edging either? Than what could teach edging. I'm confused.

[Rae]

I think she was incredible. I remember someone complained onetime to me that all her jumps were on the barrier and I said, well, they take off in the middle of the rink and land on the wall! And the last description I would give those jumps were wild.

I also think it was popular to say she had no artistic at the time, and like Elvis, she did develop her style very well over time. Spins were fast, footwork fast (not just speed). Her spirals were arguably not as pretty as the others due to her leg shape. Her appreciation for music nuances improved out of sight too. Light and shade, interacting with the audience - all there.

That triple axel really was something to behold and that was just the top of the pile in her awesome bag of tricks. Unlike Tonya's, it looked sure and had an ease about it, particularly the good ones. I always gritted my teeth when Tonya did hers - it was a launch of great proportions, but you were never sure of the outcome.

The Chinese pair Shen and Xhao really couldn't spin or do death spirals at all when they first came onto the scene and they improved right up to worthy world champions. So did Midori. When she came on the scene in the mid 80's it was OMG and gasp material, and it lifted the technical bar across the world.

[Aussie Willy]

Midori definately had very good spins and footwork. She actually had a really nice layback with a good leg position. They may not have been as dynamic as her jumps, but they definately were of very good quality.

Back in the 80's the second mark was known as the "artistic" mark which looked at things like arm movements and musical interpretation. I am not sure when it was changed to the "presentation" mark. But the presentation mark these days is meant to reflect ice coverage, speed and general skating quality. I have heard it said that if the presentation mark had existed when Midori was skating then she would have had a higher second mark.

Christopher Dean who commentated for Australian TV during the 88 Olympics made two comments which really stood out. He said her artistic ability was the skating itself. The other thing was he predicted she would be the first woman to do a 3axel - how right he was. I agree with Rae that her 3axel was amazing and much more stable than Tonya's. Also in relation to her jumps being by the barrier, Brian Pockar said during 84 Skate Canada if he had jumps like Midori's he would not be complaining about how close to the barrier they were.:)

[kayskate]

I personally think Midori is probably the best female FS skater ever. I agree she may not have been a wispy ballerina, but her athletic ability was her talent. And it was wondrous! Aside from her incredible 3axel (as good as any man's), her 2axel must have cover 20' of ice. It was spectacular. She also did a brilliant fake. She set up a lutz into a corner, and at the last minute did a BI3 and launched into a 2axel. This was all on one foot and is probably the hardest entrance to a 2axel I have ever seen.

She also have incredibly difficult spin combos done w/ great speed. She did layback- sit (no change of leg) and other transitions that are rarely seen b/c they are so hard.

Kay

[sk8ing is lyfe]

Rae, I loved your comparison of Midori to Shen and Zao because i totally agree!!! They are excellent examples where the presentation and artistry did not dome natually, so they had to work on it and now they are amongst the best in the world at it

Great comparison!

i agree that midori was amazing... she was like a little powerhouse!

[essence_of_soy]

I remember having the honour of seeing Edmonton worlds live in 1996.

The women's and men's competitions stand out as among the best in my memory.

Midori was making a comeback that year in the lead-up to Nagano 98.

Unfortunately, nerves and a stomach illness, I believe, got the better of
her.

A pity really, because her short program (skated to Firebird: could she have chosen a more appropriate piece of music?!??!), and her free to Cinderalla, were strong and dynamic. Her attack in the early practices was extraordinary. The ice coverage on her triple axel was jaw-dropping.

Previously, as a professional, I was again lucky enough to see her crush defending champ Yamaguchi at the December 93 World Professional championships.

Her technical performance included a 3lutz, 3toe/3toe and a huge triple axel.
Man, what a skate.

Will there ever be another lady like her?

[icyboid]

Poor edges? Compared to Slutskaya and the technical mistresses of today, Midori had great edge control. No flutzing, and no squeaking out half a revolution on the ice at the back end of a triple triple.
She may not have been artistic, but she had great posture and strength of carriage.
I'd say Midori in her prime would blow the ladies of today out of the water. With Midori, there'd be no excuses for cheating 3-3s or any jump for that matter.

[Scribe]

Originally posted by tidesong
i'm sorry but no edging? That was the figures era wasn't it? If she didn't have edging then school figures didn't teach edging either? Than what could teach edging. I'm confused. I remember Midori being weak in figures, and that being the main reason she didn't place higher in '88. She lost '90 Worlds to Jill Trenary, who had much, much less triple jump difficulty, but excelled in figures and in the basics in her free skating.

Panther-
ITA. I do like her sweet personality. But, I wasn't moved nor that excited by her skating, because she just wasn't artistic enough. There's more to skating than tricks and speed. Midori's leg wrap bothered me, and I thought it should be considered poor technique.

Because no other lady has landed as many difficult jumps as well as she did, I do think Midori is the best female athletic jumper skater of all time. But, I don't think she was strong enough artistic/ presentation-wise to be in the running for best female skater of all time. IMO, more complete skaters like Janet Lynn, Michelle, Kristi, and maybe some others are ahead of Midori in the running for that.

And Midori did not crush Kristi at '93 Pros. I remember Kristi giving a moving performance of a well choregraphed program (Was that the year she did R&J?) that I thought should have won. OTOH, I remember Midori mostly just posing and jumping in her poorly choreographed "Memory" program. Midori looked like she was trying to be artistic, but it didn't come off well, at least to me watching on TV. At the time, I felt Midori won just because of the jumps, in particular the triple axel. I don't like it when athetes in artistic sports win just because of some tricks, especially at pro competitions that are supposed to be more about artistry than athleticism.

Back in the 80's the second mark was known as the "artistic" mark which looked at things like arm movements and musical interpretation. I am not sure when it was changed to the "presentation" mark. But the presentation mark these days is meant to reflect ice coverage, speed and general skating quality. I have heard it said that if the presentation mark had existed when Midori was skating then she would have had a higher second mark.It changed after the '94 Olympics. Musical interpretation is still part of the second mark. Speed is in both marks. General speed is part of the first mark, and changes in speed is part of the second mark.

I don't think the change in the second mark definition would have made much of difference in Midori's career placements. Which events did she lose or place lower because of the second mark? I think elimination of figures sooner and less errors later on would have made a bigger difference.

I'd say Midori in her prime would blow the ladies of today out of the water. With Midori, there'd be no excuses for cheating 3-3s or any jump for that matter.But, how long would Midori be enough in her prime to "blow the ladies of today out of the water"? After figures were eliminated after '90 Worlds, I think we all thought Midori would totally dominate, but instead she seemed to struggle with consistency, and she didn't win another major championship after her one and only major championship win at '89 Worlds.

Athletic jumper skaters tend to have shorter primes and shorter careers than more artistic skaters. Kristi and Michelle have skated well for more years than Midori did, which is another reason why I feel they should be in the running for best female skater ever more than Midori.

[proam]

There is not a female comparable to Midori-she is unique (Unique skaters are almost non existent). If she had her same skills today she would win most of the competitions.

Scott Hamilton said, paraphrasing, It will be fifty years before we see another Midori. He is probably right.

As for the Midori only jumps, I say :roll:.

[Alexeiskate]

Originally posted by Scribe
Midori's leg wrap bothered me, and I thought it should be considered poor technique.


The leg wrap isn't considered poor technique. A jump technique is judged by its height, distance covered across the ice, and the speed and flow coming in and out of the jump, all of which Midori did better than anyone before her or since.

I will say that Midori's free performances in 89 and 90 would have kept her at the top of the podium today, assuming that she also had skated clean shorts. I also think that if the Japanese press had been thoughtful enough to lay off Midori in 92, she would have won the Olympic title.

I do think that Midori didn't always get the best advice concerning how she could present herself better though, especially later in her career. Perhaps if she and her handler had been more receptive to seeking outside choreographic help, her later programs would have been better constructed and presented her in a better light. Her artisitic programs to The Little Mermaid and Memory at the World Pro competitions were just god awful. I also remembered a Spanish number she did later where she tried some flamenco dance steps that was just painful to watch from such a talented and nice champion.

[Aussie Willy]

Midori's artistic mark was always lower in her skating. I think when she won 89 Worlds it had improved. But at the 88 Olympics the artistic mark did hold her back. But even though she had a lack of artistic presentation, for many people she was exciting, entertaining and so enjoyable to watch.

As for the leg wrap, with many skaters it becomes a problem, mainly because they close their hips and have trouble getting the free leg out. For Midori it was never a problem. She had a high leg wrap, but she kept her hips open which meant she could pull it out much easier (I try to emulate that thought when I am coming out of my back spin).

As for the consistency problems, they were due to the numerous injuries she suffered as a result of skating. She definately had a bad year in 91 but that was because she was injured.

I am just trying to imagine if she had kept the 3axel as part of her combination in the SP at the 92 Olympics how she would have placed. She had changed her SP to incorporate the lutz and I think that threw her off.

And as an aside, anyone notice on the coverage of the 89 Worlds that Sarah Abitibol is one of the flower girls picking up flowers for Midori?

[viennese]

I was recently looking at my tape of 1996 Worlds (also to prepare for a trade) and it was thrilling to see Midori Ito skate -- even though it wasn't her best.

One thing that was notable was the inclusion of the spiral sequence requirement in the OP, something that she wasn't so great at. In the old, shorter SP, she excelled at quick steps and did hard, unusual entrances into her jumps

After the figures were deemphasized in 89, and then eliminated for 91, there must have been intense pressure on her to win it all, every time. Nobody could jump like her. I wonder if she skated with such a light heart because early on, she was down in the standings, and didn't have to think of winning, only skating her best.

In 1996, she was good in the qualifying round, but that placement didn't count. IT was all about the short and long.

[SkaterBrett]

she's the best and could probably still kick but today!

[Panther2000]

Originally posted by Scribe
I remember Midori being weak in figures, and that being the main reason she didn't place higher in '88. She lost '90 Worlds to Jill Trenary, who had much, much less triple jump difficulty, but excelled in figures and in the basics in her free skating.

Panther-
ITA. I do like her sweet personality. But, I wasn't moved nor that excited by her skating, because she just wasn't artistic enough. There's more to skating than tricks and speed. Midori's leg wrap bothered me, and I thought it should be considered poor technique.

Because no other lady has landed as many difficult jumps as well as she did, I do think Midori is the best female athletic jumper skater of all time. But, I don't think she was strong enough artistic/ presentation-wise to be in the running for best female skater of all time. IMO, more complete skaters like Janet Lynn, Michelle, Kristi, and maybe some others are ahead of Midori in the running for that.

And Midori did not crush Kristi at '93 Pros. I remember Kristi giving a moving performance of a well choregraphed program (Was that the year she did R&J?) that I thought should have won. OTOH, I remember Midori mostly just posing and jumping in her poorly choreographed "Memory" program. Midori looked like she was trying to be artistic, but it didn't come off well, at least to me watching on TV. At the time, I felt Midori won just because of the jumps, in particular the triple axel. I don't like it when athetes in artistic sports win just because of some tricks, especially at pro competitions that are supposed to be more about artistry than athleticism.

It changed after the '94 Olympics. Musical interpretation is still part of the second mark. Speed is in both marks. General speed is part of the first mark, and changes in speed is part of the second mark.

I don't think the change in the second mark definition would have made much of difference in Midori's career placements. Which events did she lose or place lower because of the second mark? I think elimination of figures sooner and less errors later on would have made a bigger difference.

But, how long would Midori be enough in her prime to "blow the ladies of today out of the water"? After figures were eliminated after '90 Worlds, I think we all thought Midori would totally dominate, but instead she seemed to struggle with consistency, and she didn't win another major championship after her one and only major championship win at '89 Worlds.

Athletic jumper skaters tend to have shorter primes and shorter careers than more artistic skaters. Kristi and Michelle have skated well for more years than Midori did, which is another reason why I feel they should be in the running for best female skater ever more than Midori.

I agree with what you are saying.

MI, was a great jumper, But, that was about it. Speed on the ice is not Artistic. That is Tech.

ART is The Soul. MI Never put it out there. She & Her team relied on her Speed & Jumping ablilities. But, Fialed to realize that if her jump or Jumps did not show up at a competiion with her. SHe is out of it. If she did have an artisit side. She would have won more. People realize her Tech side. But, wanted to see more from the Artistic side.

Greatest Female Skater. MI is not it. Jumper she was great. But she had no place to go once her Jumping ability stared to leave as she got older. In other words Nothing to fall back on. In order to be called the greates of all time. You Must have a long career & win A Hella Lot. Like Tara & Tonya. She is just a Blip on the Screen. The Greatest has to have Icon Status. She never did.

[miki_tan]

Midori have decade of Show Skater career.
She skated about 90 times a year in Japan.
She have been playing the leading part.

Her frist international eligible competition was 1981 Junior Worlds.
Her last eligible competition was 1996 Worlds.
Her last competition was 2001 Japan Open.

She is 9 time National Champion.
She won 36 eligible competition including 12 international competition.
She also won at least 3 professional competition.

She marked 6.0 for artistic impression from Hungarian judge in 1990(1989 Nov) NHK.

[sk8ing is lyfe]

i love midori... She is SOOOOO good. Her power and jumps compair to the men. Proof of this is when she jumped over the boards!!!!!

I wouldn't say she is the greatest ever, but i would say she is up there! Technically, she is!!!!