Skate Canada on WSF affects Canadian skaters

[singerskates]

The Skate Canada Board of Directors on April 11,
2003 reviewed the materials in the
public domain on the WSF, reviewed the
ISU Constitution, reviewed the merits
of being a member of the ISU and
unanimously approved the following
resolution:
1) THAT Skate Canada, as a member of
the ISU, supports the objects,
activities and unity of the ISU;
2
2) THAT Skate Canada, as a responsible
member of the ISU, will continue to
work within the structure of the ISU to
achieve our goals of fair play, ethical
decision making and athlete
centeredness, with input from all
members and stakeholders in Canadian
figure skating;
3) THAT Skate Canada does not support
the World Skating Federation in any way
whatsoever; and
4) THAT any member of Skate Canada who,
on or after May 1, 2003, is a member of
the World Skating Federation or
supports or endorses its activity,
thereby seriously breaching the
Constitution and Regulations of the
ISU, shall be deemed to be a person not
in good standing with Skate Canada, and
in compliance with its obligations to
the ISU, Skate Canada will not permit
such persons (skaters, coaches,
officials, volunteers) to participate
in any competitions, programs or
activities of Skate Canada."

[shopper]

well that is not a surprise...
skate canada would never stand up and take a stand on anything of importance...

[adrianchew]

Originally posted by shopper

well that is not a surprise...
skate canada would never stand up and take a stand on anything of importance...

Actually - they seem to be taking a rather strong stand - to support the ISU fully, and to declare any Skate Canada member that supports the WSF to be no longer in good standing.

Skate Canada should be noted for their actions, notably:

1) Proposing and supporting a judging system that does not promote transparency.

2) Supporting the ISU fully, an organization that has failed in the past to address cheating by judges, whose bad judging has directly impacted Canadian skaters.

3) Shutting out and giving their membership no say in the matter - by effectively declaring them no longer in good standing should they choose to support the WSF.

None of this surprises me in the very least. Too bad that Skate Canada does not even allow freedom of speech or choice amongst its membership anymore. Speak up and you're no longer a member in good standing - that's the kind of stuff that dictators do!

[deanna]

Here, Here Adrian. ITA with everything you say. I am embarassed at the stand that SKate Canada has taken. It leaves a very bad taste in one's mouth!

[Norlite]

I would just like to suggest, that in order for the results of this poll to be taken anything near seriously, people actually read the 12 page memo issused by Skate Canada, to the members, as opposed to just the 4 points listed here, out of context.

Anyway, having actually read SC's stand, there is not an option for me on the poll anyway.

[adrianchew]

Originally posted by Norlite

I would just like to suggest, that in order for the results of this poll to be taken anything near seriously, people actually read the 12 page memo issused by Skate Canada, to the members, as opposed to just the 4 points listed here, out of context.

Anyway, having actually read SC's stand, there is not an option for me on the poll anyway.

You can put a context to anything - that doesn't change the gist of the matter. I don't care about the reasonings they can provide - SC has proven itself rather capable of making eloquent cases in point - even if the merits are questionable.

Unless those 4 points listed are made up and fiction, then they provide the bottom line summary that those of us who would rather decide for ourselves and not buy into any explanations or justifications provided directly by SC.

A car salesman will always tell you the good stuffs, but what's the bottom line? He wants to sell you the car, SC wants you to see their stand... they're not an impartial 3rd party, they have a direct interest and stake in the matter. 12 pages or 4 points - my conclusions will be the same.

[Polish]

I agree with Deanna. How embarrassing.

[blades]

8-)

curious person that i am...anyone have a link to the 12 page memo???

as for the wsf...it's an uphill battle for them....but i wish 'em well...it just gets worse each year with the isu...

[Canskater]

The 12 page memo is in the members only section of the SC site.
If Adrian would permit, I can paste it here.

-- sheilagh

[Rae]

Skate Canada is entitled to come out in support of the ISU, if they want to do so. But not everyone gets a say.

" Skate Canada will not permit
such persons (skaters, coaches,
officials, volunteers) to participate
in any competitions, programs or
activities of Skate Canada."

Not only are coaches ineligible according to the ISU (an archaic bit of nonsense that applies world wide) and unable to vote. In Canada, they've got thumbs squarely on their forheads as far as choice is concerned and more importantly, the freedom to say or think differently.

[adrianchew]

Originally posted by Canskater

The 12 page memo is in the members only section of the SC site.
If Adrian would permit, I can paste it here.

-- sheilagh

If SC has no restrictions on you posting the contents of the memo in public, go ahead. I'm interested to see how much difference the 12 pages make.

[sonora]

I have the whole memo too and would be happy to post it.

I am sorry for the Canadians. I am sure Skate Canada's leadership is not in sync with its membership on this issue. It is an embarrasssing piece of work.

[adrianchew]

I too have read the 12 page memo now. Does it change my views? Not one bit.

I fully understand the SC perspective - a perspective I can never accept. I understand their views of the judging system, but I see no problems with total majority ordinals and the 6.0 system. I see plenty of problems with the new judging system and the interim judging system.

And one thing is very clear - they state that they want their membership to make informed decisions, but they also make it very clear that if you choose to support the WSF you're no longer deemed in good standing.

All my initial guesses of what Skate Canada would do are coming to reality - none of what they say is a surprise to me. Perhaps those of their membership who seek to support the WSF should form an alternative to Skate Canada. :twisted:

[sonora]

I can understand Skate Canada taking a position on a judging system, but to absolutely forbid their members from supporting the WSF in the way Skate Canada has is Draconian, dictatorial and repressive.

They fear change that much? Does Skate Canada always control by threats and fear?

[Louis]

The WSF's stated mission is basically to drive the ISU out of business, so I can't blame the ISU or Skate Canada for ousting any public supporters of the WSF. It has been speculated elsewhere that Kurt Browning and Sale/Pelletier will now be personae non gratae (did I pluralize that correctly? ;)) and forbidden to give seminars, etc. unless they publicly rescind their support for the WSF by the May 1 deadline. I'm sorry to see that these athletes have been put in such a difficult position, and I wish them well in their choice.

[Rae]

louis,
I put a hypothetical on anther thread about what would be Skate Canada's positon if Kurt, Jamie and David reiterated their support after May 1st for WSF?
Just inviting comment really - I don't know they would necessarily be forbidden. Just seeking other's point of view on the hypo of it all.

[Jenny]

It's unfortunate that thanks to the WSF coming out so clearly against the ISU, the skating community is now feeling the need to choose sides. If WSF had come out differently - as advocates of change or as a group representing judges or skaters, for example - then this situation wouldn't have been necessary. We're already seeing one of the greatest fears of those questioning the WSF come true - a divided skating community.

Jenny

[Jenny]

Originally posted by Rae
louis,
I put a hypothetical on anther thread about what would be Skate Canada's positon if Kurt, Jamie and David reiterated their support after May 1st for WSF?
Just inviting comment really - I don't know they would necessarily be forbidden. Just seeking other's point of view on the hypo of it all.

I don't think it would change SC's opinion. I would think Kurt and S&P have more to lose in terms of opportunities in Canada, but since all three have very full and lucrative post-competitive careers, I can't see them going back on their word. And, I don't see any reason why Kurt couldn't continue to choreograph.

Jenny

[Tigger]

The WSF really didn't divide the skating community. The skating community has already been divided for at least a year since SLC. There are those who realize the ISU hurts this sport far more than it helps and there are those who believe there's nothing wrong w/the sport at the moment. Personally, those people hurt this sport just as much because they either don't want to see what's going on or they truly believe there is nothing wrong.

As for Skate Canada banning Kurt, Jamie and David....Are they really *that* stupid? Everytime they take part in a SC Seminar, the fee paid goes to SC programs. If I was a parent of a kid who had the chance to work w/either Kurt Browning or Sale and Pelletier, I'd have that money paid awfully fast. Why on earth did the first night of the Cdn Open suddenly go from so so sales to a sell out? Because Kurt decided to do two exhibitions. That money went, so we were told, so support SC programs as well. These are three of the most popular skaters this country has ever produced. Can SC really be that blind to what this could and will do to them if it happens?

On second thought....Don't answer that one.

The one thing I think that has me the most upset about the events of the last year and half is that the ISU and SC, as well as other organizations think that all of us fans are idiots!! The majority of us do see what's going on and see that a change has got to happen before this sport is permantly damaged. I don't know, maybe that damage has already happened. Only time will tell. I do know it's time for the ISU to not be the governing body of skating any longer. I don't know if the WSF is the answer or not, but at the moment, it's the only choice out there and I'm supporting them. I also wish them all the luck in the world because they will need it.

[ice mommy]

Actually, I think that Skate Canada has more to loose than Kurt or Jaime & David. These skaters could organize successful seminars on their own if they chose to do so. When they do seminars for Skate Canada, they're actually giving a bit back to Skate Canada. I think it's only Skate Canada's loss if they shut them out.

[jcspkbfan]

I've already posted most of my thoughts about this in another thread and I agree with almost everything everybody else has posted here so far, but I'm very curious about how other high-profile Canadian skaters view the WSF. I'm especially surprised Lloyd Eisler (who has probably made more controversial remarks about judging and the ISU over the years than Kurt, Jamie and David put together!) hasn't thrown in his $0.02 about this yet. Since he and Isabelle stopped competing years ago and this is their last year touring with Canadian SOI, I think they'd have relatively little to lose by speaking out. If Skate Canada's able to silence someone as outspoken as Lloyd, well, that's a sure sign of power right there! :roll:

[ellen]

Lots of insightful comments here. As I stated on another forum, at least Skate Canada has the guts to take a stand. Ditto Japan.

And then there is the wimpy USFSA ...

[speedy]

I would be interested in Elvis's take on this also. He's never struck me as one that would be pushed around and told you WILL support the ISU...not that he would be affected by them now anyway, but I would like to hear his thoughts. As an American and someone that hasn't participated in any Skate Canada programs, I must admit I haven't seen a lot of positive publicity about their organization. This bit only adds to the negatives I've seen in the past.

Also, what if Michelle or Sasha or Tim decide they want to skate for the WSF? As it stands now I take it that means they would no longer be able to participate in the USFSA and would be ineligible for Nats and Worlds. So what is the WSF offering as far as competitions in the future that will make them a viable organization? I would think it's going to be hard for them to recruit eligible skaters unless they can quickly present themselves as a player on the skating scene. No matter how many officials, coaches and former eligible skaters they have on their side, unless they can get the big-name USFSA and Skate Canada skaters to jump ship, unfortunately I can't see the WSF as being anything more than just another pro skating organization.

[skatingfan00]

Before this was announced I emailed SC hoping to receive information on their stance for an essay I was writing. I received this reply from Brenda Gorman (public affairs director):

As you are aware the announcement of the World Skating Federation was made during the World Figure Skating Championships in Washington. Skate Canada CEO Pam Coburn met with the Canadian journalists on site and this was reported in the media at the time. In short, Skate Canada has not received any detailed information on the WSF therefore it is difficult to form an opinion without knowing the facts. (Our organization also went right from Worlds to being host of the World Synchronized Championships and SARS concerns leaving little time to investigate until now). Having said that, however, Skate Canada is in support of anything that will enable the athletes to compete on a fair playing field and allow the athletes access to a system that is athlete-centred. Now that the competitive season is over we will be looking at any and all information that is available so that we can make the right decisions for our members.


So I'm not entirely sure how they can justify their final decision to what they intended only a few weeks ago.

[ice mommy]

How long ago did you email Skate Canada? What I'm wondering is how long did it take them to study the WSF and make this decision? I'd be oh so interested to see the minutes of the meeting at which this decision was reached. I wonder how many of those on the Executive Committee were in favour of this decision.

[skatingfan00]

I recieved that reply on April 16th... :roll:

[SkaterBrett]

what a dictatorship!

[LovesSk8ting]

Quelle surprise -- "Oh Canada"! I wonder why Skate Canada is doubting the World Skating Federation's intentions. Ron Pfenning, president of WSF, blew the whistle on the ISU in Salt Lake! The Canadian gold medal in pairs should be enough proof of his honorable intentions!

Why would SC be concerned about the 6.0 judging system? WSF said "We won't turn a blind eye if another system other than 6.0 comes up and we feel it's more beneficial. We will look into it." Hopefully Skate Canada will join the WSF in order to keep its Canadian Skaters away from the ISU's creative accounting. WSF is open. ISU seems to me to be shut!