British Skaters

[melanieuk]

Not since John Curry in 76, Robin Cousins in 1980, Torvill & Dean in both the 80s and 90s, (and arguably Steven Cousins), have we had anyone British to talk about. :(

I see a few good skaters here, but none of them are breaking through.
I concede that Humphreys & Baranov (ICE DANCE) have done well - for Britain - but who actually knows their names in the USA or Canada?
Or who, outside of the UK thinks "OOH, I can't wait to see them skate!"?

Our best pair skaters split up earlier this year too. However there could be interesting developments on that front later this year!

When oh when is something British going to happen? :roll:
There are junior ladies who skate (or at least they can jump the triples) better than most of the seniors.
There's only a small handful (compared to the USA) of lady skaters here who have all the triples.
Most of those ladies couldn't do a triple/double *consistently* in competition.

Jenna McCorkell (junior) shows great promise - on a good day, but so did Jennifer Holmes (senior) in 2000 when she came 2nd at British....then in 2001 she came 5th or 6th. She had such a beautiful programme as well. :cry:

Some of the men are looking good, but for how long?
I've heard about men trying quads, which surprises me, since all the triples are hardly consistent in competition - or, dare I say it, in practise?

Not that it's all about jumps. I understand that. :wink:

There's a few reasons for our low achievement internationally (in my opinion):

* the kids quit for various reasons when they hit the senior track for 2 -3 years.
* don't push themselves to limit
* education, money, ice time seems to get in the way
* our skating body is not like yours!

Anybody got any encouragement for us/them?

[Trillian]

[quote:788f0c1853="melanieuk"]I see a few good skaters here, but none of them are breaking through.
I concede that Humphreys & Baranov (ICE DANCE) have done well - for Britain - but who actually knows their names in the USA or Canada?
Or who, outside of the UK thinks "OOH, I can't wait to see them skate!"?[/quote:788f0c1853]

Humphreys & Baranov actually became quite popular in the U.S. and Canada within the last year after all the struggles they went through to be included on the Olympic team. While I doubt many North Americans would list them as "favorites," they certainly seem to have gotten a lot of people in their corner.

IMO the biggest problem in British skating is the way the governing body treats the skaters. Instead of encouraging them to improve, it seems that the instant they do anything wrong, the federation immediately gives up on them. Also, the qualifying standards are ridiculous--how is a skater supposed to ever live up to those standards when they don't have the opportunity to gain experience in the first place?

[melanieuk]

That's nice to know that other countries are even interested in the skaters here! :D

I totally agree with your statements.

Our senior lady didn't "perform" to standard here, so she couldn't go to Euros. Why else wouldn't they send her, unless she felt herself that she couldn't do it for whatever reason?
Nobody else went in her place though.
How's our senior lady going to "get better" without experience?
I was there at Euros :) and I [i:b826316a6b]know[/i:b826316a6b] that Zoe Jones wouldn't have placed last. Even if she'd skated her worst. And so what if she did?
Why couldn't she have been given the opportunity or at least use it as positive training for her?

Our skating body (claiming poverty) also puts all its eggs in one basket, has "favourites" and dumps skaters when they underachieve - as already pointed out by Trilian who can spot it a few thousand miles away! :wink:

[melanieuk]

Oops forgot... :roll:

[b:797ad237eb]Tristan Cousins[/b:797ad237eb] who is Robin Cousins' nephew, came 4th at British 2001, Senior Men.
See him here:
http://www.icephoto.co.uk/british/competitor_page.asp?competitor=73&E=2&L=3&comp=11

Do you think there could be a future here?
After all, it's in the genes, a bit anyway? :lol:

There's another junior man, Mark Hanretty http://www.icephoto.co.uk/british/competitor_page.asp?competitor=44&E=2&L=2&comp=11 who reminds of John Curry in his skating.

[icenut84]

[quote:b530408139="melanieuk"]There's a few reasons for our low achievement internationally (in my opinion):

* the kids quit for various reasons when they hit the senior track for 2 -3 years.
* don't push themselves to limit
* education, money, ice time seems to get in the way
* our skating body is not like yours![/quote:b530408139]

Did you watch that Ice Girls programme that was on TV a while ago? Someone (might have been that Kevin guy, the coach) said something that summed it up pretty well:
"In Canada, skating is who we are, it's part of our identity. In Britain, skating is an unusual activity." He also said something about problems getting kids to believe they can actually do it.
Some more things that certainly aren't helping:

*I've also heard stories about how NISA sometimes treat skaters, such as changing things with little warning (such as qualifying factors for competitions). Even my coach says NISA is a bit crap.
*We really do have hardly any rinks here. And the ones we have are mostly either not that good (certainly not the training facilities of NA), and quite a few are under threat of closure. People want to build flats and supermarkets instead (more money for their pockets, y'see). :roll: :x
*The sport is incredibly low-profile here. Everybody knows who Torvill and Dean are, but honestly, if I went up to someone in the street and asked them if they like Michelle Kwan, they would look at me blankly. (Apart from SLC), on the rare occasion TV shows skating, it's always late at night with no advance publicity or promotion, and they never show more than Europeans and Worlds (even skipped Worlds this year) and never more than the top few. Kids aren't being introduced to skating unless they live next door to a rink and their parents take them or they go on a school trip. (Even this limits it to those who are lucky enough to live that close to one of the few rinks we have.) It seems every time I go out I see kids on rollerblades or something - there are dance schools all over the place. Why is nobody trying to get kids into skating?
*Education/ice time, like you said. I read something ages ago about some British skater guy talking with a skater from another country at a competition. The skater from the other country was really surprised when the British guy said he trained at weekends and, I think, maybe one or two mornings or nights a week. This was because the country the other guy lives in have special kinds of sport programs that means the kids train at reasonable hours and their education is arranged around it so they can do both, and receive proper training without having to do it at the crack of dawn or something, and without missing out on their education. Other countries have been doing this for years.
*I also think lack of encouragement/experience is a problem.

Most kids are never given the chance. Britain seems to believe that because skaters like T&D came from nowhere, there'll be an influx of them. Well, I'm sorry, but zero promotion and closing the rinks down DOES NOT HELP. :x Rant over.

[melanieuk]

You are so right in what you say.
All but 2 of the British entrants I know have to go to school/uni or jobs during the day, and fit in skating around it.

Yes I watched Ice Girls and taped it! It was filmed at my rink before I started skating again.
One of the girls, Jennifer Holmes, trains at my rink, and her coach is my coach.
Jennifer Holmes is back skating and hopefully she will prove herself this year.

[icenut84]

[quote:f2a78440db="melanieuk"]You are so right in what you say.
All but 2 of the British entrants I know have to go to school/uni or jobs during the day, and fit in skating around it.[/quote:f2a78440db]

Not to mention Marika Humphreys, who teaches in her rink, and Vitali Baranov, who works as a waiter. If they were from another country they'd probably get sponsorship or something so they could concentrate on skating! Also, not many people know, but T&D actually still had full-time jobs (he as a policeman, she as an insurance clerk - they also had different shift times!) right up till the end of the 1980 season, when they were 5th in Olympics and 4th in Worlds. Can you imagine skaters from anywhere else still working full time when they're skating at such a level?

[quote:f2a78440db]Yes I watched Ice Girls and taped it! It was filmed at my rink before I started skating again.
One of the girls, Jennifer Holmes, trains at my rink, and her coach is my coach.
Jennifer Holmes is back skating and hopefully she will prove herself this year.[/quote:f2a78440db]

I'm glad she's skating again. I taped Ice Girls too (which, incidentally, I only managed to watch because I happened to see it on the TV listings on teletext. No promotion.) Jennifer Holmes seemed really sweet! lol. I'd love to see her break through internationally. (I love her accent! Do you have the same one Mel? :) )

[melanieuk]

I don't actually. :P
I believe Jennifer has a "west coast" accent, like Glasgow/Prestwick region or similar.
Ednburgh accents (mine) do not have that "singy twang". It is more flat (boring).

[Oracle]

Whatever happened to Skate Electric? We used to get it on US tv back in the 80's. I recall that Brian Boitano competed at it during the year he won the Olympics. It had entrants that equaled the currentGrand Prix events & it was a great way, I thought, for the young British skaters to compete against & compare their skating to some of the World's elite.
We have magazines that cover British skating. In the US, Int'l Figure Skating does & Canada's Spotlight on Skating does, too so subscribers are aware of the problems & efforts that your skaters face.

[TashaKat]

... and then of course, if you're not a NISA golden girl/boy you don't exist no matter HOW good you are?

What about partners? The UK is a fairly small island, why isn't there some initiative to get and SUPPORT some partnerships out there? Why is the Senior Solo Dance Champion STILL a solo skater? She wants a partner but is still at school so it is very difficult for her to find anyone. Why aren't we working to more pairs partnerships?

Why isn't NISA doing something about the coaching system in this country? I KNOW that it's one of my pet peeves BUT how on EARTH can an adult skater who can barely turn a three turn and is shaky skating backwards be working for her Level 1 Assistant Coaching qualification?? Surely we should be making it TOUGHER to become a coach not EASIER? We all know that a bad start (aka bad basics) will always come back to haunt us in the future. I firmly believe that you should have a minimum skating level to even start coach training (I can't see what was wrong with the old Silver being the minimum standard).

Why do they keep changing the test system? To my mind they have TOTALLY devalued our tests ..... I AGREE that the tests were due for a change but to change the 'names' of the levels the way they have, they mean NOTHING now ...... previously a 'Gold' skater was GOOD, now [u:5593eb5a8e][b:5593eb5a8e]I'm[/b:5593eb5a8e][/u:5593eb5a8e] working on Gold ..... sorry, but it doesn't have the same meaning anymore! I know that this is just semantics but it does 'feel' to me that the whole system has been devalued. And PLEASE don't even let me start on the inconsistencies in judging!!! It would be helpful if the judges knew the steps to the dances ....... saying on the fail sheet that a skater did a 'cross behind [u:5593eb5a8e]instead[/u:5593eb5a8e] of a back run' in the 22 step is, frankly unacceptable.

Anyway, I'll leave it at that ;) as I would like to pass some more tests before I finally hang up my skates!

L x

[hoptoad]

I think it's probably true that you have to be close to a rink with good coaching to get an early start in skating and that might be harder in the UK than some places. I was stationed at Mildenhall AB (near Cambridge) a few years ago and thought I might want to go skating sometime. It was not easy to figure out where the rinks were. I discovered there was one an hour or two away (I forgot the city), but I never made the trip. I did skate once in a rink in Edinburgh. There were a lot of kids there who seemed to being having fun, but it was a crowded public session and I don't think there was any one working on serious skating skills. I didn't follow skating then, but I don't think I heard anyone mention it ever.

So where are the major training rinks in the UK?
Are there many club competitions? I think that might be a critical factor in helping some kids discover that they love to compete and perform in front of an audience.

Thanks for bringing up the subject and please keep us updated!

[melanieuk]

[quote:b17c4bcc83="hoptoad"]
So where are the major training rinks in the UK?
Are there many club competitions? I think that might be a critical factor in helping some kids discover that they love to compete and perform in front of an audience.[/quote:b17c4bcc83]

I believe they are/were:

[b:b17c4bcc83]Centrum[/b:b17c4bcc83] for Scotland.
This rink is closed at present.
All the elite skaters who had moved there (some from another country - England) are now scattered about, or having time off skating.
Zoe Jones, the current Senior lady came from England to train there.

[b:b17c4bcc83]Nottingham[/b:b17c4bcc83] for England.
That's it, as far as I'm aware. NISA doesn't put much stock in any other rink/group of skaters in Britain.
There are a few other rinks, mainly in England where the elite seem to gather.

Hoptoad, the rink you visited in Edinburgh was Murrayfield. :P

Here's an interesting article:
http://www.geocities.com/ziggyonice/paranoia.html

[melanieuk]

[b:54a9e0729b]These articles describe the state of British skating.[/b:54a9e0729b]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport/hi/english/other_sports/newsid_1524000/1524795.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport/hi/english/other_sports/us_sport/newsid_1699000/1699941.stm

This one refers to [b:54a9e0729b]2000 British[/b:54a9e0729b], but not a lot has changed in that time. Many have dropped out and only a few juniors have moved up.

http://users.aber.ac.uk/ljd97/britnews.html

[color=blue:54a9e0729b][b:54a9e0729b]Finally please go see our skating body/organisation and tell us how you think it compares to yours?[/b:54a9e0729b]

[/color:54a9e0729b]http://www.iceskating.org.uk/

[hoptoad]

Things do seem grim for the near future...what is the UK's record/policies on sending skaters to novice international comps or on the JGP?

And while I'm asking basic questions, is the whole UK under one federation or are there different organizations for skaters from Britian, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland?

[Mrs Redboots]

[quote:255f2722c3="hoptoad"]Things do seem grim for the near future...what is the UK's record/policies on sending skaters to novice international comps or on the JGP?

And while I'm asking basic questions, is the whole UK under one federation or are there different organizations for skaters from Britian, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland?[/quote:255f2722c3]

They certainly go to Junior grands prix, or some of them - the current (2001) and former (2000) British Junior Ice Dance Champions train at the same rink that I do, and they have all been to Junior grands prix and learnt a very great deal from being there. You wouldn't have thought they were the same skaters when they came back!

As for the federation, there is a separate Scottish federation, but for some reason it is not recognised by NISA, so any Scottish skater who wants to get anywhere has to train and compete under NISA's auspices.

[Mrs Redboots]

[quote:2fe46dd387="melanieuk"]
[b:2fe46dd387]Centrum[/b:2fe46dd387] for Scotland.
This rink is closed at present.
All the elite skaters who had moved there (some from another country - England) are now scattered about, or having time off skating.
Zoe Jones, the current Senior lady came from England to train there.[/quote:2fe46dd387]

Where is Vicki Hodges, who was also featured in "Ice Girls" training now? She came back to Streatham to prepare for last year's British Championships and gratifyingly came 2nd, but then went back to Centrum.

Has it closed permanently, or just for the summer?

[melanieuk]

Apparently, Centrum wasn't making the millions - or producing the results it needed - and has shut "for a few weeks".
It has no public sessions to keep the cash afloat, does it?

Only it has cancelled its Opens, and nobody knows when it's re-opening (as far as I know).
Management are unable to tell people when ice will be available.
That's all I know......plus the fact that there are some coaches who believe it will not reopen at all.

I don't know ANY skater who is a member of SISA in Scotland.
Nobody- coaches, skaters or judges - are allowed anything to do with SISA, so in effect, NO, the mainland UK doesn't have separate governing bodies, only NISA. NIISA for Ireland?

I don't know where Vicky Hodges is, but my bets are she is a refugee at another rink, as we have refugees from Centrum at ours.

[lisabelle]

The only British skater I really know anything about is Jenni Holmes, so it's good to hear that she is skating still (again?). Good luck to her.

[melanieuk]

Sorry, maybe I misled using that word "again".
As far as I know Jennifer Holmes didn't stop skating, and she continues to skate.
:lol:
I should have said that maybe the intensity and motivation of her skating was affected for a short while.

[TashaKat]

[quote:b7adb9fb85="Mrs Redboots"] Where is Vicki Hodges, who was also featured in "Ice Girls" training now? She came back to Streatham to prepare for last year's British Championships and gratifyingly came 2nd, but then went back to Centrum.[/quote:b7adb9fb85]

Despite what Vicki said about Yuri Bureiko in "Ice Girls" I believe that she is now back with him!

Regarding Centrum and Nottingham .... the 'problem' with these rinks is that they took the 'elite' skaters from the other rinks/coaches. They (the rinks) haven't, therefore, proved themselves as the work was done by someone else. Only time will tell!

Slough used to be one of (if not THE) top Dance rinks in the country when Jimmy Young was around. He produced a great many of the British Champions. Of course Lee Valley has a very good reputation for Synchro. Alexandra Palace is producing consistently good results (we have Solo Dance champions, Primary Pairs champions and Primary Dance bronze medallists (unfortunately they have now split up)). I don't really know many of the other rinks that well but it is said that the 'northern' rinks are producing some good results.

If only we had a magic wand eh?

L x

[lisabelle]

melanie, that i can understand from what i know she was put through a lot. i'm glad that she's back to full training though, i hope she can make it back to the top.

[babyballerina]

I live in northern England and there is a 40 year old ice rink right near my house. It is in a serious state of disrepair having being condemmed about 6-7 years ago so everyone has sat around waiting for the bulldozers to appear and let it fall down around them. However, this week i find it is closed for a month for refurbishment so its obviously not going to close anytime soon then! It has some kind of subsidence so the ground appears to have risen towards the centre of the ice. Hence I am always skating up hill. I skated at lake Placid once and I was so amazed THIS ICE IS FLAT! I hear rumours that the rink is going to be sold to Morrisons supermarket (because its on a prime site in the middle of a shopping area)and the money used to buld a new rink. However, they want to build the new one in the middle of a public park so planning permisson has been refused. and so the troubles go on. In the meantime all the serious skaters have left. I used to see debbie Keeley, who was national primary champion, a lot and I think she went up to Scotland but I don't know ehere she is now or if she is still skating. The nearest other rink is 30 miles away in Sunderland so its a long way to go.

[AnnieD]

Babyballerina, my friend has just finished her first year at Durham Uni, so she's pretty much in the same situation for finding a decent rink as you are. We both skate at Murrayfield in Edinburgh (hi Mel!), and as soon as she went down to uni we went searching for rinks in the Durham area. I went with her to Whitley Bay but it was tiny and took forever to get to, plus the ice was rubbish, so she tried Billingham. Her description of the ice sounds exactly like yours! She said that the ice wasn't level and that spinning and jumping ended up being a bit hazardous. She did find it useful for one thing though; whilst trying to land axels, she found that if she took off from a higher up area and attempted to land on a lower area she figured she could get a bit more time in the air! :lol:

[babyballerina]

Don't think its anything new. Billingham Ice rink has been like that as long as i remember and i've lived here all my life (insane I know) It wasn't too bad when they had a big ice hockey team, Billingham Bombers (all Canadians of course :D ) but they went bust in the early 1990s.

There used to be a great ice rink in Durham, right down by the river (minor flooding problem!) but I believe it is now a car park since the Durham wasps went to play in Newcastle.

I wouldn't know about the axels still i am still at the going round in circles stage, bouncing off the barriers!

[melanieuk]

Hi AnnieD :)
Isn't Caroline from Durham? What rink did she skate at?

I heard great things about [b:3e15160081]3axels[/b:3e15160081] and Jenna McCorkell today.
She is now skating at Senior level, so watch out!!
We may at last have someone British skating well internationally soon!!

[Jim Hodges]

Mike Aldred, the former British Pairs Champion now has a new partner and should raise the standard for pairs. For information on him check out his web site at www.ukpairs.com.

[melanieuk]

Tiffany and Andrew were doing so well. :(
They were doing extremely well for Britain's standards.

I'm glad Tiffany has a new happy partnership and I really hope they achieve what they want and prove the cynics wrong!!

[weregonnagetyou]

anyone knows why sunderland ice rink closed a few years back?

[max]

I believe the pipes sprung a leak which flooded the shops beneath the rink and the owners/council decided that it was too expensive to repair.