Cohen vs. Kostner

[turtlehead]

O.K., everybody seems to be crowning either Sasha Cohen or Carolina Kostner as the 2006 champion. Assuming that these people are right, and they are the big rival in 2006, who would you be more apt to pick? I think that this would be a very difficult decision. They are both wonderful skaters with a ton of potential. And who knows how each one will improve in 3 years? I know that there are other skaters to consider, but I really only want to know more about Sasha and Carolina.

[Artemis]

Well I'd have to give the nod to Sasha right now. Carolina has tons of potential, but hasn't really come that close to realizing it yet. Sasha has realized her potential (and likely will still grow), and held back mostly by her lack of concentration.

I'm also leery of tagging someone as undeveloped as Carolina as "the next one" -- partly because I don't want to jinx her!

However ask me again in 2005 and the answer might be different.

[Trillian]

Personally I think it's very premature to say that either of these skaters is a favorite for the 2006 Olympic title. Cohen is at such a high level already that it will be an enormous challenge to maintain it--judging by the way things usually work, she's at high risk of peaking well before the 2006 Olympics. That might not happen, but odds are not in favor of being able to maintain such a high level for such a long time. As for Kostner, I'm a big fan myself and think she's enormously talented, but she's still got some developing to do and her consistency is definitely not where it needs to be. Plus, she's already so tall that if she does much more growing she's going to be in trouble with the jumps.

Otoh, I'd say both of these skaters are about as likely as anyone else to win in 2006. Which is to say, there's no one who looks particularly likely at this point. I doubt it'll be possible to make a reasonable prediction any earlier than 2005.

[skaterdujour]

As much as I want to see Kostner on the podium, I would hesitate to say she would be Sasha, or anyone's big rival for Olympic Gold in 2006, or any color metal for that matter. I think she has great potential, but she has yet to prove her consistency on the Senior circuit. She had a very successful season on the Junior circuit this year, and had a great skate at Euros, but beyond that, I think it is too early to say. That's too much pressure on her, partly because the Olys will be in her country in 2006. But as far as substance goes, there's a long way to go.

There are also a number of girls who placed below Kostner who I think have great potential if they can get consistancy and make an "impact" on the judges and audience over the next couple of years. But most of them flopped at this years World's. Ususally it takes a couple of years of good skates and being "robbed" for people to start getting what they deserve.

Sasha made that impact rather quickly simply because she is so stunning on the ice, and is more elegant and flexible than any other skater out there. I would hesitate to say that she is also a favorite to win Gold. You just never know what will happen.

[adrianchew]

Originally posted by turtlehead

O.K., everybody seems to be crowning either Sasha Cohen or Carolina Kostner as the 2006 champion. Assuming that these people are right, and they are the big rival in 2006, who would you be more apt to pick?

The assumption that either one of them will be the 2006 Oly champ is as others say, rather premature, but if I was asked to make a prediction today, of potential 2006 champions, I'd have to say these two awesomely talented ladies to me have tremendous potential that could be realized in the coming years, including them being likely rivals for the 2006 Olympic gold.

Stylistically, the two are worlds apart... they both have unique talents and abilities. I couldn't pick one from the other at this point... yes Caro is the one with more work to be done, but there's 3 years for the magic to be worked out before '06.

Sasha if she can skate at her full potential of what she has today, would be the absolute best there is in the World today in my mind. And I know she can do clean programs and hit all the hard combos... it just hasn't happened yet, but everything I've seen has shown to me that the ability to do the components is fully in place, she just needs to put the sum whole together!

Sasha has shown resilience this season - she hasn't given up, she's always worked hard and learned from experience. She's learned how to deliver a performance and not let errors or imperfections affect the rest of the performance. There are many doubts of her ability to be clean, to be unquestionably superior to the competition - and I see why there are such doubts, but IMO too many people focus on what they see in the immediate and expect instant results. If you want something good - take time to build it - instant coffee can't match brewed coffee - have some patience!

Same with Caro - people seem to pick on what they see today. She's a bundle of tremendous potential, and I see as much raw talent in her as people who saw Sasha in her early days saw in Sasha. Now you've got to take that and refine it into gold! ;)

At the same token, there are many hard-working skaters with great potential waiting in the wings to be discovered. I've not seen in the senior/junior ranks this season any others that have the raw talent of Caro or Sasha, but talent alone doesn't guarantee success, and a hard-working skater with good overalls might do really well.

But to answer your question - who would I pick - both, and I know that's not picking, I can't pick between the two! Next time, ask me an easier question! :P

[sashathegreat]

Oh, I know what'll happen in 2006. MK is going to win the Olympics... She'll opt to do only 4 triples in her program, with only one 3/2, but she'd blow everyone away with her spiral, because when she does it, she smiles from her heart, an ultimately she'll be awarded a gold medal for her incredible artistry! ;) :P

[Angel01673]

Kostner couldn't even hold off the japanese jr ladies on the jr circuit, nevermind Cohen.

[Calgary88]

Can someone explain the hype over Kostner? I didn't find her impressive in the least. She'd have to have a sever makeover to her skating to medal in the Olys in 2006. She seems like a pleasant young girl and I have nothing against her, but she just didn't impress me.

[adrianchew]

Calgary88 - Kostner's talent is rather sublime. Did you watch her short program at Jr. Worlds?

The straight line footwork on 1-foot... it looks sooooooo simple, yet its very hard. I'm almost certain neither Michelle nor Sasha could pull that off nearly as effectively... they'd both never keep the speed up till the end.

The 3-turns into 3-loop/2-loop was gorgeous... ever seen how most loops at the end of a combo look? They go up and down... without covering ice... look at Kostner's going like 2-3 feet or more across. Kostner is a skater that won't cheat jumps - its not in her training... she'll do clean beautiful triples or sit/fall but not under-rotate intentionally, flutz/etc.

Of course I might be a tad more persuaded - since I saw her do a clean 3-flip/3-toe/3-loop in practice at Worlds - with the 3-loop being of higher quality than say when Plushenko does a 4-toe/3-toe/3-loop. That's impressive!

The flow she gets, the deep edges, her speed, all incredible! It wasn't apparent to me until after I saw her in real life though. Every skater on the ice is scared of her - they duck/move away when she comes by, especially when she does a jump - even a single!

I had to :lol: at the comment about her finding the arena at Worlds a little too small. She covers the ice surface over in very little time.

[*dani-skates*]

I like both Cohen and Kostner and Kostners technique is great but it is very possible that another new skater may appear- what about Fumie Suguri if she can improve some of her problems or someone basically unheard of altogather. Maybe one of the young japanese girls like Ando will win. Its very heard to predict right now after all who would have predicted that Lipinski or Hughes would have one 3 years before their olys and look at Michelle who in many peoples views could have won 2 olympics but still hasn't.

Between Cohen and Kostner i would like to see Kostner win because she seems to genuinely love skating but other wise its a toss up between them. Both need to cope with pressure/ nerves and we will see. I am sure that without major injury bith will be contendors for a medal if not the gold

[edgy]

The 3-turns into 3-loop/2-loop was gorgeous... ever seen how most loops at the end of a combo look? They go up and down... without covering ice... look at Kostner's going like 2-3 feet or more across. Kostner is a skater that won't cheat jumps - its not in her training... she'll do clean beautiful triples or sit/fall but not under-rotate intentionally, flutz/etc.

this is very true. A lot of skaters seem to be flutzing or liping jumps. Carolina,however, does not (thankfully).

I thought this was very impressive to see, along with her SO clean jumps

[sasha's_golden]

Well, I'm a total Sasha fan, but...
I think if Sasha could get her nerves/consistency problem under control she could win... I think Carolina's really great though! Wow when I saw how old she is, only 2 years older than me! But, they might not even be around in 2006. People get injured, and grow, so they cant do triples anymore... ok i should shut up i don't wanna jinx anyone!

[WeBeEducated]

Cohen is light years ahead of Kostner.

[sk8ing is lyfe]

Cohen is light years ahead of Kostner.

but as far as 3/3s, kostner is WAY ahead...

[Ellyn]

Originally posted by sk8ing is lyfe
but as far as 3/3s, kostner is WAY ahead...

And on speed, depth of edge, and ice coverage, and using difficult turns. Her spins are not as flashy, and she'll need to work on her presentation in general to get the top marks (4th in the short at Worlds was just right, despite having the highest difficulty), but the basics are all there.

Oh, and of course she would have to skate at least two clean programs or close to it to win the medals.

[RoseAugust]

Way to soon to tell, but right now I'm leaning towards Kostner. I know she's still lacking in some elements, but I'm sold on her speed, edges, and 3/3's. It will be interesting to see if she's able to maintain the difficult combinations over the next few years. Love her so far.

[GrapeSoda]

Kostner couldn't even hold off the japanese jr ladies on the jr circuit, nevermind Cohen.

At least Kostner won a medal at Junior Worlds!

[Angel01673]

Originally posted by GrapeSoda
At least Kostner won a medal at Junior Worlds!

But that was my point, she may have won a medal, but she couldn't defeat the top two japanese women.

[*dani-skates*]

As for Kostner at junior worlds, I have heard from a fairly reliable source that Kostner had flu that week or at least for some of it, she skated OK and a medal is great but she can skate so much better so not being able to hold off the japanese ladies isn't really fair if she did have flu.

[*dani-skates*]

As for Kostner at junior worlds, I have heard from a fairly reliable source that Kostner had flu that week or at least for some of it, she skated OK and a medal is great but she can skate so much better so not being able to hold off the japanese ladies isn't really a fair critisizm if she did have flu.

[adrianchew]

Too many people are far too results oriented far too soon - any skater that goes out there with the intent to win every single competition in a full length season is going to be quite disappointed. You have to get to the very top and even then, such levels of performance are rarely seen.

Kostner was sick at Junior Worlds, and Cohen was sick and having logistics problems too in the year she finished 6th at Junior Worlds. It hasn't stopped Cohen from moving ahead, doing well in the GP circuit this season and winning the senior GP title in the process.

US ladies with the Junior World ladies champ title like Kirk and McDonough are behind Cohen now... you can never fully predict with skaters that are still coming up the ranks, how far they might actually go. The results are far less important than the substance and skating and potential, but even then, nothing is a guarantee.

[ChiquitaBanana]

Originally posted by Angel01673
Kostner couldn't even hold off the japanese jr ladies on the jr circuit, nevermind Cohen.

She still beated Miki Ando at the Junior Grand Prix final... ;)

[Angel01673]

Originally posted by ChiquitaBanana
She still beated Miki Ando at the Junior Grand Prix final... ;)
But IIRC she has never beaten Ota at all this season. A clean Kostner den't even compare to a clean Ota.

[adrianchew]

Originally posted by Angel01673

But IIRC she has never beaten Ota at all this season. A clean Kostner den't even compare to a clean Ota.

Yes - Kostner has far superior jump technique and edges, Ota has much better upper body expression. They are just different skaters with different strengths... Kostner's is more about skating though.

[hebequeen]

Kostner does have far superior jumps but Ota's no slouch either when it comes to basic skating. She has a natural flow and even though her edges and speed may not be quite as good as Kostner's, they are nevertheless wonderful. Her skating looks smooth and quite effortless. And her extension and musicality are some of the best in the world.

[~*SkYlA*~]

Even though 2006 is a while a way, I think if Cohen and Cosner can hold on to their skill its going to be a pretty tight pinch. They are both amazing skaters! :lol: