Ice Dance Teams

[IceDanceSk8er]

So does anyone know what dance teams decided to stay together? What new teams were formed? And who split up?

[sonora]

I just heard Flo Steed and Augie Hill broke up.

[Dede]

Flo and Augie are both wonderful dancers as well as being terrific kids! And, they will only continue to excel in their sport. Let's hope that new partnerships will only help them each excel to the level they wish. I wish both the best of luck! We know you each will have many more successes coming your way! REACH FOR THE STARS!!!:) :)

[rinkrat24/7]

wow! flo and augie broke up?? was this just gossip or did you hear this from a valid source? I'm sry im not trying to discredit you information its just that i wanna be sure.;)

[sonora]

Heard from someone else who trains in Dallas. Don't know for sure-hope someone can verify it one way or another.

[JKlink]

Steed and Hill were a great team and they had a style that was really exciting. Any reason given for the split? The US has now had 3 of the top 6 junior couples split up after Nationals. This is not good news for the future of ice dance in the US. JK

[Leela]

I'd like to see Augie skate with Kirstin Frisch. I think they would make an awesome looking couple, and could be a very strong team.

[butterfly]

Originally posted by Leela
I'd like to see Augie skate with Kirstin Frisch. I think they would make an awesome looking couple, and could be a very strong team. That sounds like a great fit. I think he is 5'9" and may have more height to come.

[icefreak]

From what I've been told.....Flo and Augie broke up because they thought that there was too much of a height difference. They believe that they would do better (match better) with partners of closer height. They split on very good terms. A very friend in dallas told me that Kirsten is going down to dallas soon for a tryout. But wouldn't Flo look good with Brent? that would be kinda funny......the partner swap;) ! I also think that Ryan O'Meara would be a good partner for her.

[WeBeEducated]

I am stunned that flo and augie broke up.
I love this team and the fact that they dont look like a manufactured package(same body type, hair color, leg length etc) makes them look real to me .
I thought their on ice chemistry was great and that much of their flair came from Flo's spunky attitude and ballroom dance ability.
what a shame:(

[sonora]

This is not meant specifically for Flo and Augie, but in general.

Too many teams break up. They don't get along, the parents don't get along, the coach has a problem, one grows, one puts on weight, one or both members of the team think he or she can do better.

This is an interesting and painful time of year as skaters try to "trade up", popular teams break up, good skaters end up with no one to skate with, and the US dance program continues to languish.

[IceDanceSk8er]

Originally posted by sonora
This is an interesting and painful time of year as skaters try to "trade up", popular teams break up, good skaters end up with no one to skate with, and the US dance program continues to languish.

Sonora, while there is truth in the points you made, sometimes dancers do not have a choice but to trade up or change partners. While the motives for some of these partner changes are suspect, many have led to great partnerships. IMO ice dance in the US is very strong, and not languishing. Just go down the senior, junior and novice rosters and look at the teams.

Remember, parents and skaters have a lot invested in this sport, and the goal is to get ahead, make the national team or be selected to a team envelope. Sometimes a dancer comes to the realization that they will not achieve this with their current partner. Perhaps their partner is not as serious as they are, doesn't train as hard, has different goals, or just wants to follow a different path. I think it's irrelevant whether or not we approve of these changes. It's their career and future.

[rinkrat24/7]

I've heard little tid-bits about the Dails breaking up?? does anyone know if this is true or not?

[xyzzy]

The break-up between Flo and Augie was neither well-managed nor amicable. Needless to say, the story has all the elements of deceit and sleaziness all too often associated with the dissolution of partnerships. IMHO, the villain of this particular story is Warren Maxwell.

Maybe Flo and Augie weren't the ideal physical match, but they had done very well, got along fine, and had made many sacrifices to achieve their success. Now, for at least one of them, a good deal of that sacrifice must seem to have been in vain, and the success it generated turned to bitterness. Flo is, as they say, collateral damage.:(

[Dede]

xyzzy..... You appear to be privy to some of the details of this split. If so, then I think you should try to understand what the driving forces were if you understand skating. If blaming someone makes you feel better then sobeit. Both of these kids will continue to have success and all their sacrifices will have been worth it. They have learned so much together. Nothing has been wasted. Skaters experience peaks and valleys. Dedication and the love for skating moves them through the valleys. They need the support of everyone! They don't need to hear negative comments like this. Don't project your feelings on kids.

[sonora]

Icedancer:

I am familiar with our dance teams at all levels. Our two most promising teams in the last ten years, Butler & Joseph and Pekarek & Silverstein, both split up. Either of those teams could have been contenders for a world medal.

According to other posters on this board, at least six of our junior teams from this year's nationals have broken up.

Now, while there may be very good reasons for each of these splits, the fact remains that a major reason for our inability to medal in dance at the world level is teams who can't stay together. For whatever reason.

[Azam356]

Dedw
Although I appreciate your thoughts they are somewhat naive. As being in the competitive world in the past I must say what hapened to Flo and Augie (if it did) is the norm and it really doesnt do the kids any good at all except to make them sometimes bitter toward the whole sport I have personally been through this same scenario and it isnt pleasant .To have peaks and valleys because you have ups and downs with your skating is one thing .(and yes I agree you learn form that.)But if you think you have a secure partnership after three or four years and then have it pulled out from under you and on top of that to find out your own coach helped do this and knife you in the back is nothing but a negative learning experience. But this unfortunately is the norm in skating Almost every child who has lasted to junior level has had this happen to them or done it to someone. What goes around comes around and what they may do to one partner comes back eventually and happens to them. USFSA as usual turns a blind eye to this backstabbing. They just want teams and skaters that win-they really do not care what happens to the kids emotionally on the way up. Yes they do gain experiance etc etc by skating with differnt people and this might improve their skating but it does nothing but negative things to their self esteem and egos etc when the other parent or coach turns on them

[JKlink]

The fact is, the guys are in charge and along with their coaches. Decisions get made by the guy and his coach, the couple splits up, and the girls go searching for new partners. The guys (and coaches) sit back and wait for the girls to come to them. It may not be fair, but it's reality. In many ways, I think the coaches are responsible for breakups and as long as they keep the guy, they still have power in the skating world. The question that always needs to be asked is whether they are working in the best interest of their skaters?

Steed and Hill had a very successful year and did well in their JGPs. If the coaches are blaming the team's placement on the height difference between partners, then they are kidding both their skaters and themselves as well. Coaches at the junior level are going to need better music and better choreography to be competitive internationally. JK

[Icesk8dance]

Originally posted by JKlink
The fact is, the guys are in charge and along with their coaches. Decisions get made by the guy and his coach, the couple splits up, and the girls go searching for new partners. The guys (and coaches) sit back and wait for the girls to come to them. It may not be fair, but it's reality. In many ways, I think the coaches are responsible for breakups and as long as they keep the guy, they still have power in the skating world. The question that always needs to be asked is whether they are working in the best interest of their skaters? JK

Boy, did you hit the nail on the head! I couldn't agree more.

[JKlink]

I'm looking forward to the Lake Placid Dance Competition as there will be a lot of new couples there along with the couples that have moved up. With all of the break-ups at the junior level, there should be a number of JGP spots up for grabs.

Anybody have any reports on Whetstone/Cohen or Soloman/Smith partnerships? How about McCullough/Dear and Pratt/Gilles? I'm assuming that they are both moving to the junior level. Does anyone know for sure what level Matthews and Zavozin will be competing at this year. JK

[snowflake]

in reality, the judges are the villains in this story. the decision was made because of the opinions of the judges. yes they placed well this season, but they could have done better if theyre physiques were better matched. hence, points were taken off even before they skated bc of their physical match. in one perspective, the coach may have done the two a favor, preventing a situation where the ability is superior to many but still place below those who are less talented bc of their poor physical match. If this is the problem, then in a way it seems almost pointless to invest thousands of dollars into something that can only go so far. I am aware that the team could have stayed together bc they worked well together, got along, and enjoyed skating altogether; however, if winning or placing well is the main objective, then this decision is justifiable. i dont think any fingers should be pointed for this break-up. it was going to happen some time or another, bc growth happens--its inevitable. a person cant help if they grow, and a person cant help if theyve stopped growing.

[IceDanceSk8er]

Originally posted by JKlink
Anybody have any reports on Whetstone/Cohen or Soloman/Smith partnerships? How about McCullough/Dear and Pratt/Gilles? I'm assuming that they are both moving to the junior level. Does anyone know for sure what level Matthews and Zavozin will be competing at this year. JK

If anyone wants to help with the accuracy of this information, this is the list I've compiled of teams skating at the junior level. "B" = brokeup and "?" = no idea of their status. I have a senior list as well that I'm working on.

Trina Pratt & Todd Gilles
Samantha Cepican & Phillip Lichtor
Victoria Devins & Kevin O'Keefe
Meryl Davis & Charlie White
Kristen Frisch & Augie Hill
Cheryl Russell & Kenny Metzger (B)
Carly Donowick & Leo Unger
Mimi Whetstone & Ben Cohen
Megan McCullough & Joel Dear
Shannon Wingle & James Warren
Sarah Solomon & Andrew Smith
Christie Moxley/ Alexander Kirsanov
Kimberley Steffey & Richard Brown
Stephanie Ellis & Patrick Connelly
Alisa Allapach & Benjaman Westenberger (?)

Not sure on the status of these skaters

Paul Huyrch - is trying out with other skaters
Melissa Ralph
Ryan O'Meara
Natalie Bos
Ashley Elliot
Ashley Williams
Anna Scheumann
Lindsay Evans
Stacy Carter
Nathan Miller
Jonathon Harris
Brent Holdburg

[Dede]

[ yes they placed well this season, but they could have done better if theyre physiques were better matched. hence, points were taken off even before they skated bc of their physical match. in one perspective, the coach may have done the two a favor, preventing a situation where the ability is superior to many but still place below those who are less talented bc of their poor physical match. If this is the problem, then in a way it seems almost pointless to invest thousands of dollars into something that can only go so far. I am aware that the team could have stayed together bc they worked well together, got along, and enjoyed skating altogether; however, if winning or placing well is the main objective, then this decision is justifiable. i dont think any fingers should be pointed for this break-up. it was going to happen some time or another, bc growth happens--its inevitable. a person cant help if they grow, and a person cant help if theyve stopped growing. ]

Totally agree. Unfortunately, this is part of skating

[JKlink]

Originally posted by snowflake
in reality, the judges are the villains in this story. the decision was made because of the opinions of the judges. This may be true, but it might not. Sounds like a convenient excuse that can't be verified. First we have secret judging and now we secret match making or breaking! Judges have been known to have different opinions and what judges would you listen to and which would you ignore.

At Nationals, the judges had Steed & Hill at 2, 2, 3, 3, but some of the judges gave them a number of 1st place ordinals in the CDs and OD. JK

[Icesk8dance]

So there appears to be only 6 teams left of the original 12 in Junior Dance. Two are age ineligible - Allapach/Westenberger and Steffey/Brown. Matthews/Zavozin still have 3 years eligibility, but will they move to seniors?
If the 6 teams that split all find partners, add any new teams that formed from the Dance Audition in Colorado, the novice teams moving up and we are going to have a full and exciting event in Junior Dance for the new season.

[sonora]

I agree with JKlink here. Placement is the true indicator of a judge's opinion, and with those ordinals, this was not a "judge induced" break up.

[xyzzy]

The realities of skating are just that: realities. They aren't going to change. What needs to be considered is the way in which those realities are handled, which in many cases comes down to the [lack of] managerial and interpersonal skills of the coaches and the pushiness of the parents. There are whole lists of teams that were probably not going to be successful and needed to be dissolved, maybe shouldn't have been formed in the first place - - the reality of skating - - but we should not allow the truly shoddy treatment of the discarded partner to represent the way those realities are managed. Both F&B and G&O seemed to have figured out how to manage these realities successfully.

It's very hard for a competitive dance team to practice on crowded freestyle ice because they always have to be looking over their shoulders, watching their backs. It seems that they have to do this now even if they're the only ones on the ice except their coach ...

[Mazurka Girl]

Originally posted by xyzzy
It's very hard for a competitive dance team to practice on crowded freestyle ice because they always have to be looking over their shoulders, watching their backs. It seems that they have to do this now even if they're the only ones on the ice except their coach ...
Unfortunately that's nothing new to skating, and especially dance. Maintain hope that karma will kick in one of these days when it's least expected.

[Mazurka Girl]

Originally posted by Azam356
But if you think you have a secure partnership after three or four years and then have it pulled out from under you and on top of that to find out your own coach helped do this and knife you in the back is nothing but a negative learning experience.
And when it takes more than one hand to count how many times it's happened to skaters you know during the course of a year, then that's even further indication of the shameful & unethical practices of some coaches that reflects poorly on the leadership of skating.

When was the last time you saw a seminar regarding standards & ethics for coaches? The PSA guidelines seem much more concerned with soliciting against other coaches & those types of financial matters than they do about coaches providing exemplary leadership & doing the right thing for their skaters. It doesn't seem to matter much to the USFSA either as long as the coaches are members & get results at any cost.

[Azam356]

I just wanted to say that although yes I agree it is usually the boy and his coach that run the show it can and does also happene to the boy It happens on both sides. The parent coach whoever is looking for a better deal-a better placement the kids boy or girl are the pawns.But it does happen to the boys also.

[rinkrat24/7]

is augie planning to stay in texas, training with Warren Maxwell?

[xyzzy]

unfortunately, yes.

[sonora]

Where is Flo going to train?

[xyzzy]

Answering that question presumes that one knows that she is going to continue training

[sonora]

I guess I'm hopeful.

I also know of a boy...

[Leela]

Originally posted by xyzzy
unfortunately, yes.

Why do you say "unfortunately" for Augie's training in Texas with Warren? :?:

[leepn]

With the success that this team made this year and hopes of going to Jr. Worlds some things just don't make sense. First, there a many Jr. World titles won with many miss matched teams. I think that R/B won 2 titles that way. Many successful teams do it. I believe N/F have or had a height difference. I am sure if you go down the line and look there are many more. So what really gives?

[armchairsk8r]

Does anyone know of any promising novice level dance teams that were intermediate last year?:?:

[fluorescein]

Originally posted by xyzzy
The realities of skating are just that: realities. They aren't going to change. What needs to be considered is the way in which those realities are handled, which in many cases comes down to the [lack of] managerial and interpersonal skills of the coaches and the pushiness of the parents. (...) Both F&B and G&O seemed to have figured out how to manage these realities successfully.

It's very hard for a competitive dance team to practice on crowded freestyle ice because they always have to be looking over their shoulders, watching their backs. It seems that they have to do this now even if they're the only ones on the ice except their coach ...

Who were F&B's and G&O's coaches and do they have reputations for being decent and honorable? Do the parents of these kids that find themselves in bad situations even care about that?

I just can't imagine that parents don't have some idea going in what sort of people they (and their children) will be dealing with. Or at least that they begin to have suspicions before too many months have passed. No way would I ever encourage my daughter to pursue competitive skating, but if she chose it for herself, I'd make darn sure she knew what the potential downsides were *and* that she was emotionally prepared to walk away at any time. Surely parents who have 1st hand experience with the competitive skating culture would be even more cautious than someone like me who only sees it from the periphery?

[snowflake]

robbie kaine taught f&b
and jerry santoferara & yovanny ..... taught g&b
w/ g&b situation, she knew about it a season before he left. so it wasnt a big surprise to her when it happened (im sure it was a surprise though when he told her)

[icefreak]

Post by sonora
"I guess I'm hopeful.

I also know of a boy..."

Who? I love flo's skating and don't want her to dissappear because of a lack of partner.

[sonora]

Icefreak:

email me. your email is turned off.

[WeBeEducated]

Ya know, so what if Augie and Flo were different in height and body type!
That doesnt mean they looked bad...they looked great!!!!
Flo was fast, expressive, and a serious competitor.

I think it is absurd to say that a team should "match" perfectly, or fulfill some preordained image that judges rank in priority over talent.
It is supposed to be a SPORT.
The talent is supposed to be what the judges are rating, not their appearance.
An icedancer can be incredibly great, successful, and NOT be tall...Pasha is short and her partner was tall, and they won 2 Olympic medals.
Maya Usova isnt tall and her partner was short. Both teams had a totally different look and both were successful.

I think if judges are whispering about a skaters appearance to the coach, behind the skaters back, and encouraging a breakup of a team, then the judges are being unfair and corrupt, as well as unprofessional and superficial.
Call me crazy, but yes, I expect skaters to be judged on talent and ability, not height. If some shallow judges are saying "oh honey, Augie would look fabulous with so and so." then it's enough to turn alot of people off from this so called sport.
I never liked compulsory dances til I saw Flo and Augie skate the silver samba, and Flo skated it just as well, if not better, than Augie.
They were indeed getting good results, and they were doing well enough that "results" cant be used as the excuse for the breakup.
This was nothing more than a total disregard of Flo's efforts, and the teams success, in favor of the new chick down the street(who is skinnier, of course
:roll: )

[snowflake]

flo's expressiveness is so exciting to watch. she makes you want to watch her. i have never seen some one with so much talent in this area of skating. its not too much, but jsut right...hits that fine line perfectly.
in fact one reason she needs to be so expressive is because augie never gave anything. or if he did, it was very minimal. so she has be expressive for herself and her partner. she works very hard and admire her for her perseverance. i hope she finds a partner bc i would love to continue watching her skate! she is beautiful individual w/ lots of character and personality, especially on the ice. good luck to her!

[icefreak]

Original post by WeBeEducated
"This was nothing more than a total disregard of Flo's efforts, and the teams success, in favor of the new chick down the street(who is skinnier, of course)"

Last time i checked Flo was very tiny. She has curves but she has dropped like 8 lbs in the last year (and on a 5'1 frame, that is a ton of weight) and is a little person. But she is a little stick of dynamite. SSSOOO expressive. She is probably the hardest worker at our rink. I seriously hope she can find a partner so we can continue to see her shine.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by xyzzy
Answering that question presumes that one knows that she is going to continue training

i do have more to say about this split, but for the time being, because of your vitriolic commentry, i searched your posts. your very first post shows that you are a close associate of matt gates, which explains a lot regarding your hostility toward the coach of the steed/hill team. anyone can search this, but i'll quote in case you decide to edit after the fact:

xyzzy's first post on 2/12/03: "Matthew Gates has returned to coaching in Newington. He has an intermediate team that moved to CT from TX last year (Weaver & Clavey) that are moving up to Novice this year that he has high hopes for. He is also working with other competitive young dancers in the area." i think dede's comment was highly appropriate.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by JKlink
This may be true, but it might not. Sounds like a convenient excuse that can't be verified. First we have secret judging and now we secret match making or breaking! Judges have been known to have different opinions and what judges would you listen to and which would you ignore.

At Nationals, the judges had Steed & Hill at 2, 2, 3, 3, but some of the judges gave them a number of 1st place ordinals in the CDs and OD. JK

hey, jk, you make a good point about placements. however, the details go deeper. my buddies and i at nationals thought steed/hill should have won the samba and the od. ok, that's up for debate. but! there is no way that steed/hill should have gone to "TOM" level in the freedance for 3rd/4th place with donowick/unger. charles cyr gave them 6th place! what was he thinking???? Tagawa (CA) and Clark (MA) put them 4th, as did Carol Wooley (TX) their own state judge, no less!. Janise Engle (CA) and Pat Smith (IL) placed them 2nd where my buddies and i thought they belonged. this is "fyi" so to speak. like we really know what counts.

p.s you can look all this up, which i did (i don't have the kind of memory trillian does!) on http://www.usfsa.org and go to the "results" part of the site.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by icefreak
Original post by WeBeEducated
"This was nothing more than a total disregard of Flo's efforts, and the teams success, in favor of the new chick down the street(who is skinnier, of course)"

Last time i checked Flo was very tiny. She has curves but she has dropped like 8 lbs in the last year (and on a 5'1 frame, that is a ton of weight) and is a little person. But she is a little stick of dynamite. SSSOOO expressive. She is probably the hardest worker at our rink. I seriously hope she can find a partner so we can continue to see her shine.
'
hey, icefreak! so, you're there live and in person. would you please let us know as it plays out what's current? this is one of my favorite teams to watch perform. they looked just fine at nationals as far as legline goes (but so did f/b!).

yup, you've really nailed the issue. flo IS tiny and beautifully shapely, and certainly NOT heavy in any way shape or form (at least as far as we could tell at nationals) and this commentary from webeduc. is totally "off the wall" so to speak.

but body-type and height differential does count in ice dance, whether we, as the fans like it or not. someone noted on the board he was 5'9" but bio has been taken down off the usfsa site.

immediately, i can think of at least three guys that flo would possibly match or who are availabe. what's going on with o'meara and bommentre?

[Trillian]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
body-type and height differential does count in ice dance, whether we, as the fans like it or not.

Yes, they do. And my first thought when reading of this split, and the heights that are listed for each skater, was that it was a perfectly reasonable thing for them to do. There are good reasons to split and bad reasons to split; physical mismatch is in the former category. A ten inch height difference in dance, in almost every case, is too much, and at the age these skaters are at, it's unlikely to lessen.

However, I don't know any of the details behind the split; it sounds like there was more going on in this case, which is too bad. That doesn't mean the split itself, which will allow each skater to match with others who have more suitable builds, is a bad thing.

[WeBeEducated]

worry, you misunderstood me!
I think Flo has a great shape, and is a very cute young lady who is loaded with icedance talent. I prefer her look to lanky skaters who are often stiff kneed and hunched over.
I was commenting on the fact that so many people have said she was too curvy, or too short! I dont think Flo and augie should be identical in shape and height. I loved their look and their style, and feel that he traded her in for a skinnier partner , but not a better partner.
As for the process of splitting, let me put it this way: we all know who hooked up with whom at the party at nationals, and so, the split isnt a surprize to me, but unfortunate nonetheless.
I am sad there wont be a "FlAugie" to cheer for anymore.
But I disagree with those that say it was a physical mismatch and the split was for that reason.
It is a sport.
They did quite well in the sport together with their current physical dimensions.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by WeBeEducated
worry, you misunderstood me!
I think Flo has a great shape, and is a very cute young lady who is loaded with icedance talent. I prefer her look to lanky skaters who are often stiff kneed and hunched over.
I was commenting on the fact that so many people have said she was too curvy, or too short! I dont think Flo and augie should be identical in shape and height. I loved their look and their style, and feel that he traded her in for a skinnier partner , but not a better partner.
As for the process of splitting, let me put it this way: we all know who hooked up with whom at the party at nationals, and so, the split isnt a surprize to me, but unfortunate nonetheless.
I am sad there wont be a "FlAugie" to cheer for anymore.
But I disagree with those that say it was a physical mismatch and the split was for that reason.
It is a sport.
They did quite well in the sport together with their current physical dimensions.

me too.
i'm glad you clarified that.

but your commont regarding "who hooked up with whom at nationals" has certainly sparked my interest. do tell what you know or what you suspect!

post script: there are quite a number of girls out there but you seem to have more than just a notion from your nationals comment as to who's skating with whom. so, like i asked before, please share!

[snowflake]

augie and kirsten frisch are having a tryout this week. and he may possibly skate w/ her. they are talking about the possibility of a partnership. however i have trouble picturing this team: him being 5'11/5'10 and she being 5'8/5'9. thats just my opinion.

[bleu]

Latest rumour is that G&G have now joined Nikolai's stable.8O 8O 8O

[icecat]

I'm sorry... I must be having a brain cramp... G&G... who?

[IceDanceSk8er]

Originally posted by icecat
I'm sorry... I must be having a brain cramp... G&G... who?

Elena Grushina and Ruslan Goncharov?

[what?meworry?]

so that makes how many senior "horses" in his stable?

wester/baransev
gregory/petuchov
grushin/goncharov
lang/tchernychev

are the teams i recall listed. are there others?

edited for p.s: i meant nikoli's (morosov) in response to the g/g note.

[IceDanceSk8er]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
so that makes how many senior "horses" in his stable?

wester/baransev
gregory/petuchov
grushin/goncharov
lang/tchernychev

are the teams i recall listed. are there others?

I have these teams competing at senior this year:

Naomi Lang & Peter Tcherynshev
Tanith Belbin & Ben Agosto
Melissa Gregory & Denis Putukov
Loren Galler-Rabinowitz and David Mitchell
Jenny Wester & Danil Barantsev
Morgan Matthews & Maxim Zavozin (tested senior)
Emily Nussear & Brandon Forsyth
Hillary Gibbons & Justin Pekerek
Kendra Goodwin & Brent Bommentree
Lydia Manon & Vitaly Shalin

Of course, we still have to figure out which junior teams are moving up to senior. I have these teams listed as competing junior:

Trina Pratt & Todd Gilles
Samantha Cepican & Phillip Lichtor
Victoria Devins & Kevin O'Keefe
Meryl Davis & Charlie White
Kristen Frisch & Augie Hill
Cheryl Russell & Kenny Metzger (split?)
Carly Donowick & Leo Unger
Mimi Whetstone & Ben Cohen
Megan McCullough & Joel Dear
Shannon Wingle & James Warren
Sarah Solomon & Andrew Smith
Kimberley Steffey & Richard Brown
Alisa Allapach & Benjaman Westenberger

I believe that Elena & Ruslan represent the Ukraine. Now since Daniil Barantsev is paired with Wester, I believe they will not be able to represent the US for at least one year since he skated with Natalia Romaniuta for Russia. Is this a correct assumption?

[Trillian]

Originally posted by IceDanceSk8er
I have these teams competing at senior this year:

Are Manon & Shalin still together? There have been rumors about them splitting since nationals.

I have these teams listed as competing junior:

Why don't we wait for confirmation on Frisch & Hill? Have they even tried out yet? As for Russell & Metzger, I would assume that IF they're still together, they'd test up. They're too old for juniors anyway.

Now since Daniil Barantsev is paired with Wester, I believe they will not be able to represent the US for at least one year since he skated with Natalia Romaniuta for Russia. Is this a correct assumption?

I don't believe Romaniuta & Barantsev ever competed internationally last season, so unless I'm forgetting an event, he's already taken his year off (or will have, as of July 1st). They still wouldn't be eligible for worlds or 4CC this season if it becomes an issue, which I doubt will happen--there's a two year waiting period for that. (Junior worlds as well, but isn't he too old by now anyway?)

[ohiosk8]

Won't Danil need a release from the Russian Federation before the ISU will allow him to compete for the USA internationally? That rule keeps changing and it is hard to keep up!

At the senior level, add Brittany May and Denis Latyshev.

Any update on Navarro and Shmalo?

Some time ago, a poster indicated that the Youngs were competing this year. Is this still the case?

[what?meworry?]

i rememember that the post sounded confident y/y were training again but not even a hint since then. similarly with r/m. they were with ponomorenko. there are folks there in the rumor mill but no one has reported seeing them back on the ice at that location at least. dance4u. it think, from recent commentary is in san jose? any light to be shed, d4u?

trillian, i thought you were acquained with lydia or someone close to her?

another question. michael klus. i remember him as a very talented skater. and short. he and lydia won junior nationals and he retired. might he be interested in a return with a shorter partner?

[Leela]

Won't Danil have to live in the U.S. for a year, establishing residency, before he can compete for the U.S. (even nationally)?
Doesn't Morosov also coach Natalia Romaniuta and Arseny Markov?

[Leela]

Lydia's still skating with Vitaly Shalin.
Is it for sure about Kendra and Brent?

[Trillian]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
trillian, i thought you were acquained with lydia or someone close to her?


It was a rather flimsy connection--we had a mutual (non-skating) friend a few years ago and chatted sometimes. I haven't even talked to the mutual friend in at least a year, let alone Lydia, so I'm as clueless as anyone else. I was glad to hear she'd found a partner last season and I hope one way or another she's in competition this year, though. :)

[IceDanceSk8er]

Originally posted by Leela
Won't Danil have to live in the U.S. for a year, establishing residency, before he can compete for the U.S. (even nationally)?
Doesn't Morosov also coach Natalia Romaniuta and Arseny Markov?

Nikoli Morozov has an impressive stable of skaters:
Naomi Lang & Peter Tchernyshev
Melissa Gregory & Denis Putukov
Jenny Wester & Danil Barantsev
Isabelle Delobel & Olivier Schoenfelder
Shae-Lynn Bourne & Victor Kraatz
Elena Grushina & Ruslan Goncharov

[Starlight]

Does someone know if Morosov will be coaching both Romaniuta & Markov AND Jennifer Wester & Danil Barantsev? :?:

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by IceDanceSk8er
Nikoli Morozov has an impressive stable of skaters:
Naomi Lang & Peter Tchernyshev
Melissa Gregory & Denis Putukov
Jenny Wester & Danil Barantsev
Isabelle Delobel & Olivier Schoenfelder
Shae-Lynn Bourne & Victor Kraatz
Elena Grushina & Ruslan Goncharov

now this is really interesting. assuming b/k retire to the pros, that still leaves 5 senior teams. i remember some posting regarding igor's ups and downs relating to the large number of teams---there were 5 senior teams one season---and how many left after that season.

so, does he have additional staff to whom he will assign responsibilities for some of these teams by task or something (such as he was with tarasova)?

[baraég]

Are you sure Delobel and Schoenfelder are with Morosov?

[IceDanceSk8er]

Originally posted by baraég
Are you sure Delobel and Schoenfelder are with Morosov?

Actually I don't think that Morosov is coaching Delobel and Schoenfelderany longer. I know that Morosov was their choreographer up until the Salt Lake games, but the team decided they had had enough of training in CT and returned to France. I'll find out who their coach/choreographer is

[Angel01673]

Wow, Nikolai is really going to spread himself thin, I don't see how he can give all those teams equal attention, it may show next season if some of his teams look prepared and some don't. And isn't he coaching a singles skater as well? And not to mention all the other people he does choreography for, Michelle Kwan, Brian Joubert, Shizuka Arakawa, Takeshi Honda, ect. And I'm sure more people will be flocking to him during the off season.

[Daphne]

Delobel & Schoenfelder have been training with Muriel Boucher-Zazoui in Lyon, France since the end of last season I believe.

[Phuket]

Originally posted by what?meworry?


another question. michael klus. i remember him as a very talented skater. and short. he and lydia won junior nationals and he retired. might he be interested in a return with a shorter partner?

Oh, Michel Klus. I just loved his skating, however I think he is done competing. If I recall correctly he said he loved to skate but he wasn't all that fond of competing.

Are you thinking about pairing Michel and Flo? I don't know what he's up to these days, but I kind of doubt he'd return to competitive skating.

[what?meworry?]

yes. i remember his skating well, first with allison newman and then lydia manon. he sat a season out of competition (at dsc) after splitting from newman. he didn't seem happy training solo, though.

additionally, there are some skaters i sensed had "unfinished" careers in competitive skating in that they knew they could be very successful given more time. klus is one of them. eve chalom another. there are others, i'm sure, who could be added to this list who, given the right circumstances, might give it a shot again.

i guess from his comment he related, klus has "hung up" the skates for good. too bad.

[Abahple]

It is a sure thing about Goodwin/Bommentre. They are a team.

Frisch/Hill are also definitely together now.

Russel/Metzger will most likely not be returning any time soon, though only they seem to know for sure.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by Abahple
It is a sure thing about Goodwin/Bommentre. They are a team.

Frisch/Hill are also definitely together now.

Russel/Metzger will most likely not be returning any time soon, though only they seem to know for sure.

whoa! and who000 are yo000, as the caterpillar said to alice? nevermind, i shall disappear stripe by stripe until all that is left is the grin...

[snowflake]

do you think augie and flo wouldve broken up if kirsten and brent hadnt broken up? it is strange how flaugie already had music for next season (some one posted taht) and had begun practicing the new compulsories, and now all of a sudden they break up. then augie is skating w/ kirsten (the second place finisher this year at nationals)....almost like a....t r a d e u p? i hate to say it, but that is what it seems like.

[IceDanceSk8er]

Originally posted by Daphne
Delobel & Schoenfelder have been training with Muriel Boucher-Zazoui in Lyon, France since the end of last season I believe.

From Delobel & Schoenfelder: their coaches include Muriel Boucher Zazoui, Pascale Camerlengo, and Romain Hagenauer.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by snowflake
do you think augie and flo wouldve broken up if kirsten and brent hadnt broken up? it is strange how flaugie already had music for next season (some one posted taht) and had begun practicing the new compulsories, and now all of a sudden they break up. then augie is skating w/ kirsten (the second place finisher this year at nationals)....almost like a....t r a d e u p? i hate to say it, but that is what it seems like.

oh, i think it could very possibly be a chain reaction. and it may have had roots at junior worlds. frisch/bommentre were talking about being senior next year.

however, i would't call it a "trade up" since both teams seemed very much in contention for 1st, 2nd or 3rd place at nationals. it could even be plausible that steed (until the wester thing happened with the russian, etc, etc, and honestly, how many of you would have guessed that partnership) would now be a topic of conversation with a bommentre tryout.
o'meara was a candidate for goodwin a while back, i would expect to hear some rumors about a tryout there. both, i would think, would be equals for steed. but there are more shorter guys out there.

both steed and hill are 17. it is also very likely growth had been happening, as one posted put it, and that isn't the fault of any of the skaters. i do rather "blame" the judges. but as i said before, i can't immagine steed not finding a quality partner. time will tell.

that's assuming abahple, speaking with such conviction, is accurate.

[butterfly]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
oh, i think it could very possibly be a chain reaction. and it may have had roots at junior worlds. frisch/bommentre were talking about being senior next year.

however, i would't call it a "trade up" since both teams seemed very much in contention for 1st, 2nd or 3rd place at nationals. it could even be plausible that steed (until the wester thing happened with the russian, etc, etc, and honestly, how many of you would have guessed that partnership) would now be a topic of conversation with a bommentre tryout.
o'meara was a candidate for goodwin a while back, i would expect to hear some rumors about a tryout there. both, i would think, would be equals for steed. but there are more shorter guys out there.

both steed and hill are 17. it is also very likely growth had been happening, as one posted put it, and that isn't the fault of any of the skaters. i do rather "blame" the judges. but as i said before, i can't immagine steed not finding a quality partner. time will tell.

that's assuming abahple, speaking with such conviction, is accurate. I think it was an opportunity for Augie to find someone more with his long line and that is so important in ice dance. He is still growing if he is only 17, and I think she has probably reached her adult height. Ice dance is cruel in that the look of the two people is so important and he had to think about the future. Steed should be concerned about the same problem and find someone who will fit her better as well. She will probably find someone but I don't happen to share the opinions that she is the quality ice dancer that some do. I think she would make a great pairs skater, she has that athletic look. They did make improvement this year but you also have to take into account that some of the former top junior dance teams were not there or had moved on to senior. The judges didn't seem to like their look or their technique or whatever. Same with Frisch and Bommetre. They were together forever and still couldn't take the top spot and lost to a newcomer team.

[snowflake]

it would be nice to possibly see flo w/ brent...however i am almost positive that the partnership of goodwin/bommentre is certain. flo and ryan might make a nice match.
in regards to flo and her skating, i think her performance outshines her actual ability. i think she has tremendous talent in acting and expression, but her skating is little behind. i do htink she is talented, regardless, as an ice dancer. i dont think i can see her diong pairs...yes shes tiny, but can she jump, spin, etc...? (hypothetically speaking).

[icefreak]

i watched augie and kirsten skating together this morning. he is about an inch to an inch and a half taller than her. but her legs have got to be about two inches longer than his. they didn't seem to match at all, but the maxwells keep telling everyone that they match wonderfully. so maybe they see something. but personally, i don't see it.

[GoFigure]

.....would love to hear more about kristen and augie. also lia nitake is in co trying out with stephen chassman.

[what?meworry?]

icefreak, thanks for your assessment.

it would be unfortunate for kirsten if the match doesn't work. there aren't a lot of tall guys out there close to her level.

it would also be unfortunate for the "flaugie" (as webedu. puts it) team (unless they would be able to pick up and continue).

perhaps the "abahple" pronouncement was premature?

[sonora]

Other interesting try-outs:

O'Meara & Mendoza

Tachsler & Silverstein

[Leela]

Can you say more about Mendoza and Tachsler? I don't recognize the names. What are their first names, where are they from, and with whom have they previously skated? Thanks

[sonora]

Might help if I could spell!

It's Trachsler, with an R, and that still might not be the correct spelling. First name Nick. Trains in Dallas, been to nationals about 7 times with various partners.

And Mendoza, Kristin, won Juv Natls 3 or 4 yrs ago with partner Josh Lee. Was second in Intermediate the following year.

[butterfly]

Originally posted by sonora
Other interesting try-outs:

O'Meara & Mendoza

Tachsler & Silverstein I do believe that O'meara is far better and wouldn't want to go backwards in his dance career. Mendoza would be a real step backwards. She may have potential but not for O'meara unless he is truly desperate. Too bad Ralph and Omeara couldn't have stayed together they were fabulous and could have gone far.

Who is Tachsler?

[frasier's ice]

I believe the last name is Traxler

[frasier's ice]

Speaking of Nick Traxler from Dallas, what ever happened to the other Nick from Dallas?

[sonora]

Thanks for the spelling help.

What other Nick from Dallas?

[Trillian]

Originally posted by frasier's ice
Speaking of Nick Traxler from Dallas, what ever happened to the other Nick from Dallas?

Nick Hart? Competed in seniors this year with Christina Zepeda, but I think they've split.

Nick Traxler is an interesting possibility--other than that brief stint with Crystal Beckerdite last summer, he's been partnerless for an awfully long time.

Kristen Mendoza does sound pretty inexperienced to be trying out with O'Meara, but maybe the fact that he needs a small partner is an issue? (I don't know how big she is, but Ryan is short for a male dancer.) Plus IIRC she's got the bonus of being local.

[ClevelandDancer]

Kristen Mendoza is tiny, *maybe* 5'0", 14 or 15yo. Her mom is pretty short too, so she will probably stay little. She lives in the Cleveland, OH area. Kristen's a really nice girl, but I think O'Meara is probably a bit out of her league.

[Abahple]

Originally posted by what?meworry?

perhaps the "abahple" pronouncement was premature?

This is no speculation. Kirsten and Augie are a team now. They are planning on skating junior this year, but will move up to senior next year because of her age.

[IceDanceSk8er]

Originally posted by Abahple
This is no speculation. Kirsten and Augie are a team now. They are planning on skating junior this year, but will move up to senior next year because of her age.

If this is true, we should all wish them the best of luck for a successful season.

[WeBeEducated]

Kristin Mendoza would be a good height for Ryan. He trains in Detroit and she is in Cleveland though. Her skating strength is her stroking. Weaknesses would be her lack of expression/personality on ice, and footwork-very weak.
I cant see this as a team.

[jkl]

I understand that Hart and Zepeda have split. Does anyone know if either of them has a new partner. I met them at Mids and thought they were delightful.

[icefreak]

original post by WeBeEducated

"Kristin Mendoza would be a good height for Ryan. He trains in Detroit and she is in Cleveland though. Her skating strength is her stroking. Weaknesses would be her lack of expression/personality on ice, and footwork-very weak.
I cant see this as a team"

I can't see this happening either. If he is looking for a tiny partner Cheryll Russell would probably be a much better match....this is assuming she is still interested in skating.

[WeBeEducated]

I was thinking Flo would be a good match for Ryan

[Icesk8dance]

Originally posted by sonora
Other interesting try-outs:

O'Meara & Mendoza

Tachsler & Silverstein

Trachsler (Traxler) & Silverstein, wouldn't there be quite a height difference? Not sure how tall Jamie is, but IIRC she is tiny.

[snowflake]

update on teams...brent and kendra are definitely skating together and they look fantastic!!!! their hair matches great, their skin tones, heigth...everything very very complimentary. good speed and power. their lines match very well also. theyre going senior...but i think they do wonderful!

and about the russian, kendra, jen triangle saga...most of what is posted on this forum about that whole situation not wholly true. after hearing the story from "the" source, i find the situation appalling! that is my opinion however, so if you disagree that is your opinion.

[frasier's ice]

snowflake, what do you mean about the "triangle"?? could it be there was some financial considerations????

[legjumper]

I also have gotten confirmation that Frisch/Hill is for real.

[NAdancefan]

Originally posted by legjumper
I also have gotten confirmation that Frisch/Hill is for real. As did I, about a week ago... but for those who don't believe message board "sources", here's confirmation:

Frisch & Hill's Official Site (http://131.103.214.250/kirstenaugie/)

[AYS]

Brent Bommentre and Kendra Goodwin are skating together and they make a gorgeous looking couple on the ice. The size matchup is much better here than it was for Brent and Kirsten, and they make a great physical match aesthetically as well. I wish both Brent and Kirsten great luck with their new partnerships.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by snowflake
...and about the russian, kendra, jen triangle saga...most of what is posted on this forum about that whole situation not wholly true. after hearing the story from "the" source, i find the situation appalling! that is my opinion however, so if you disagree that is your opinion.

ok. but! the "truth" from "the" source depends on "which' source.

there is the wester source. there is the russian/and his coach source. and there is the kendra/brent/and his coach source.

which source do you mean?

the underground rumors abound that kendra was there even while wester arrived, trying to negotiate a talent deal over a money deal. perhaps true or not. who knows?

if in fact he arrived after september this past year, he is not eligible to compete this coming season.

the question goodwin, i have heard had, was the committment beyond getting the financing needed to be here plus the training.

perhaps all has worked out for the best after all, eh?

so, you have hinted you know the "truth." please share! what is the perspective you have heard. it will be tossed into the hopper and churned and we, the gossiping public will decide what we wish to believe.

[JaeDance]

Hi everyone,
This is Jenn (W). I'm new to these boards but -um, I guess as far as a 'source' would be over Daniil and I's partnership -- I would be one of them....I'm not sure what anyone is refering to as far as a "saga" goes, however. As for Kendra, I didn't even know that she had tried out with Daniil before I came up to skate - so there were definately no 'deals' going on from my position.
Daniil and I are very happy skating together. I wish Kendra lots of luck, I'm sure Brent and she look very good together and hopefully we will have many competitions together in the future.
As for questions about Daniil and I's partnership -
yes, Nikolai is also coaching Natalia/Arsenig -- we're all friends and Nikolai is an absolute master at his craft so where is the downfall in him having all of us to showcase?? Point being - It's fabulous and we all get along great here.
Daniil and I will compete in qualifying competitions in the 04-05 season due to having to take this year out for his residency.
I hope that everyone confronts me with what ever 'appalling' situations they think that they are aware of. Maybe I can be of some help to clear them up. :) Daniil and I should have a web announcement up shortly -- my digital camera won't connect properly to my computer right now to upload photos .... I will post the URL when we get it.

Have a wonderful day!

[what?meworry?]

jennifer wester is not one of the sources i anticipated hearing anything factual from, bing one of the "perspectives" immediately involved in the saga.

associates and observers, those whom i believe would be better sources for more "factual" information.

jenn, good for you, you got what you wanted. but that isn't the question i was asking, and your commentary about your partnership wouldn't be, of necessity, non-biased. others may not be either, but eventually the biases and prejudices tend to balance themselves out into something that resembles what "really" happened.

while others have a "perspective" unique to their experiences, i think that since you broadcast your pruchase of the russian at $45,000 to $50,000 plus skating expenses to your associates in san jose (and posssibly out east) and they in turn broadcast it amongst other competitors, your situation was pretty specific prior to now. that story has seemed already to have taken on a life of its own, coming out of the east too.

i still consider the possibility that the goodwins were unwilling to participate in a "bidding war" over the russian, considering the possibility that he would not fulfill a "contract" for a long-term partnership. goodwin appeared to be the more qualified prospect. but not having seen the tryouts, i can't comment further. president has occurred that russians sold themselves into the usfsa system only to abandon their first (and financing) partners who paid their way(tchernychev skated first with a girl who was clearly inferior, and then partnered up with naomi, for example, bondukin (sp?)another---these rumors, true or not, having long ago become part of the "folklore" and "myth" in the skating world).

[leepn]

JaeDance:

Welcome to the forums but either you are not informed or something does not make sense. It has just been posted that Romanuita/Markov are NOT a team. In fact it seems he is skating for Canada. Is this rumor or fact?

[JaeDance]

Okay, one...
Natalia and Arsenig are not infact a 'team'. They practice together, but yes Arsenig is planning on skating for Canada.
Two... WHAT BROADCAST OF WHAT PURCHASE??????:?:
You seem to be VERY mis-informed....the only thing in San Jose ever mentioned to anyone about finacial matters was that of trying to find sponsorship for Jon and I because of his tremendous debt with the rink and our coaches. I was not paying for Jon, and have never paid for a partnership -- especially purchasing a partner!?! I'm sorry that you feel you need to put me down like this, sir or madame. Whom ever you may be. But what I feel you must be refering to was a matter of purely skating expenses for the Wester/Harris partnership that, may I remind you, NO LONGER EXISTS. Yes, I suppose I am a 'biased' opinion on my situation, but who wouldn't be??

Once again, have a great day, and please -- Let the sunshine in! (Clouds can really ruin a person's mood)

[what?meworry?]

the reference was to the "broadcast" of the purchase of the russian for jenifer wester. supposedly she told friends in san jose that she paid $45,000 to $50,000 plus skating expenses for that russian to fellow skaters. you must understand that it takes no less than the speed of light for such "information" to spread amongst the skating kids. you can't hide the truth from the skaters' community.

and, yess'm, the word was that she also committed to finance jon harris, but this is not verified. except for the fact that he had no money to finance his own skating to start with, and, rumor has it, was solicited away from slattery after lake placid. rumor only, i admit.

but darn, you just can't hide this stuff from the kids, who in turn tell secondary sources, who in turn, etc, etc. heck, by the time i hear this stuff it's usually several times passed along and from several sources.

get real.

[JaeDance]

I'm sorry that you wish to believe this negativity. There is really nothing I can do about what you choose to believe and what you choose to see through. But I can give this one note of advice :
Don't believe everything you hear.....ever played a game called 'telephone'? One person says something that another person turns around and repeats, and another and another until it gets back to the first person as a completely new and utterly fabricated statement.
Oh, and you know, I don't know who this supposed skater or group of 'kids' are that you are speaking of....but you might consider looking into the motives of someone who is willing to spread rumors like this amoungst others. I find it highly irrisponsible for fellow human beings to be so nasty with potentially harmful statements such as these mentioned in your message.

None the less, happy Easter and/or Passover everyone! :)

[what?meworry?]

golly, gee whiz, it's a whole bunch of the kids in san jose. com'on, you know what you told them.! why would you think they wouldn't communicate it to their friends and even (gasp) some grown-ups!

besides, financing partners is not new. and not necessarily negative, unless it is a talentless partner, and then shame on the russian and his coach. the circumstances of the matchup as related earlier sounded plausible and in two seasons (since he's reported to not be eligible for this season) we'll see the results. so if it is also a talent match, why be upset.

case in point, kristen fraser. not bad so far in current isu world standings. also, historically, eve chalom and matt gates, good while it lasted. currently, gregory and her husband, denis. and previously, her partner shuford. reasonably matched, reasonably successful.

but there are also the disasters, such as may/antonov, (fill-in-th-bland with any one of his previous partners/bondukin(sp) before newman, fraser/nichols, tchernychev and his first partner (the one whose parent threatened to sue usfsa), jonathan magalnick and whoever would pay for his skating. there are others of course, many of whom we have never heard of because their choices prevented them from progressing far enough even though they had talent. too bad.

[Starlight]

I am somewhat skeptical that a two time Junior World Dance Champion would choose a partner that placed ninth in the Junior level at the most recent Nationals in Dallas in January.

[IgglesII]

Why not? We had a former World Junior Champion show up in Dallas in Senior Dance skating with his girlfriend.

I don't care how much $$ is involved here - Nikolai has an ego the size of Texas. If he didn't think this team could get anywhere after having a year to do nothing but practice, practice, practice, he wouldn't coach them. Not after he's been sitting next to senior World Champions in the kiss 'n cry.

[IgglesII]

Originally posted by Trillian

Kristen Mendoza does sound pretty inexperienced to be trying out with O'Meara, but maybe the fact that he needs a small partner is an issue?

Or at least a partner who knows that her place is to accept any and all blame for poor competition results.

[Mazurka Girl]

Originally posted by IgglesII
Why not? We had a former World Junior Champion show up in Dallas in Senior Dance skating with his girlfriend.
Good for the former World Junior Champion for making his own decisions whether it's what any experts here consider popular, wise or otherwise. Enjoy Boston Justin! :)

[Sparkey]

MEOW!

[JKlink]

Originally posted by IgglesII
Or at least a partner who knows that her place is to accept any and all blame for poor competition results. This is an interesting approach to ice dancing, do you think that coaches or partners really think this way? So far all we have seen on these threads is musical chairs with partnerships, anybody have any real reports on how any of these new teams are doing? JK

[Harris!here!]

Well, just as I slip out the back door of your mind, and you stop thinking and wondering where is Jon Harris and when will he resurface. BAM! I'm back. First things first, I need to get some things of my chest, I had lost something, but some of you may be happy to know, I found it! I found the love of this sport I had when I was still skating with Nicole Flores. Yes Nicole, it has not been the same since you. Why? I was ment to be right there right then. I feel a jump start of that again! I found the love of skating I had been trying to hold on to yet could not! Now I have it more than ever. So keep watching, it's gunn'a be a good show! Well, moving on! I must send some congrast to "Jenna" Wester on her new partner! Hope all is going well! Next: I must correct some slight inaccuracies in statements made by her in earlier forums. I.E. I was never banished from Sergei's rink by him nor the rink it's self. Yes, I did owe a bit of money to him after nationals, and at this time he is paid in full. But who does not owe there coach money after a major comp.? I also never owed the rink. But that is enough of airing dirty laundry for all to see. But there was one more inaccuracy eirlier on this board by 'Jenna'. If I remember right, you said you were new to the page. But I think I remember seeing you here before, granted you did have a differant screen name. I think it was some thing along the lines of 'danc4ugold' Yeah, that sounds right! Huh, Odd? I am not trying to sound bitter, just even I have thought of going on pages like fsworld and such and put in a few good words for my self, but never quite to this extreme. I just think if you are going to post something, take credit for it. I do understand remaining nameless, But speaking in third person as if you are someone else? Come now! Well, as I said no bitter water here, just, I found it ever so funny! Very Humorous! VERY...

Cheers mate!

[IgglesII]

Originally posted by Mazurka Girl
Good for the former World Junior Champion for making his own decisions whether it's what any experts here consider popular, wise or otherwise. Enjoy Boston Justin! :)

Didn't say there was anything wrong with it, I was just making a point of fact.

[IgglesII]

Originally posted by JKlink
This is an interesting approach to ice dancing, do you think that coaches or partners really think this way?

Do I think coaches or partners decide the blame resides with one member of a team, instead of being shared by both partners? Heck yes.

[WeBeEducated]

:lol: :lol:
I agree, this is funny. It's gettin' good now!
Whatmeworry has been given fairly accurate info from San Jose I believe. It is common for the imported skater to expect a huge payoff for his partnership. ( no secrets about that in the skating world )
Anyone who thinks otherwise is either naive or wearing blinders.
Also, the American guys do the very same thing, and get their payoff one way or another or end up finding a reason to go where the gra$$ is greener.
All the talk about "size match" "line" "similar goals" etc etc etc usually is a coverup for money issues, at least in part.

Jon Harris, you and Nicole were wonderful, and you have real talent but you move around too much.!!!! Nicole was your best partner. Stick with one good partner for awhile and get a part time job though, otherwise, your talent wont mean anything to anybody anywhere. Loved you(but not little miss sling) at Mids, especially the beginning to your silver samba

[JKlink]

Originally posted by IgglesII
Do I think coaches or partners decide the blame resides with one member of a team, instead of being shared by both partners? Heck yes. I'm sure that they will find someone to blame, but your comment made it sound like they put partnerships together based on needing someone to blame. Since the girl usually gets the blame (and dumped), maybe if you get a weak quiet one, then partnership will last longer.

IMO, you want a girl who can fill the rink with her presence. Girls like Flo Steed, Carly Donowick and Sarah Solomon all have that presence on the ice that makes them standout and I feel the same way about Brent Bommentre and Maxim Zavozin for the guys. Leo Ungar and Augie Hill are very good technical skaters, but their partners added a lot to the actual on ice presence of the couple. JK

[Harris!here!]

We-b-Ed,


Thank you for your advise. You should be happy to know I am already acting those very words out! I am skating again, working two jobs, and also having an outside life! Things are aiming straight up! My life has gone from crazy to very under control! And skating has never felt better. I can't wait to get back in the game! But this time around the game will be played very very differantly! I am playing smarter, and most importantly... I am playing to WIN! Well, thanx for keeping your membership to the Jon and Nikki fan club! She was a grand proformer and an even better friend!


Well,
Cheers...

[JaeDance]

??????? 'Dance4Ugold'???????
Jon, I can't set your mind staight about whatever your talking about in this one. I'm not and never was Dance4Ugold.....and I have no way of 'proving that'. But I would appreciate it if you don't accuse me of giving myself props under a third person identity. I do have friends......and feelings too.

sorry about the sling at mids to whom ever you are, sometimes the drive to skate overrides the drive to think about style.

In ending, this will be my last posting on these boards. I appreciate the people who support me but I'm really tired of getting emails signed '-someone who gets a real kick out of you'.

Lots of love to everyone! I can't wait for Daniil and I's first competition. I wish, even Jon, lots of luck....for you, and your talents sake, I hope you truly did find the passion for the sport again.

Again, have a great day everyone.
Ciao

[Polish]

Originally posted by IgglesII


I don't care how much $$ is involved here - Nikolai has an ego the size of Texas. I

Is Nikolai's ego as big as Igor's, Iggles?

[dusty]

What?!?!? Igor has an ego??? Since when??!

[IceDanceSk8er]

Originally posted by Polish
Is Nikolai's ego as big as Igor's, Iggles?

Ego is irrelevent - as long as it doesn't hurt the skaters. Fact is, Nikola and Igor produce results, and you can't argue with that.

[Polish]

Originally posted by IceDanceSk8er
Ego is irrelevent - as long as it doesn't hurt the skaters. Fact is, Nikola and Igor produce results, and you can't argue with that.

Gee, really? :roll: You missed my point. I trying to make a point to Iggles about his previous anti-Shpilband stand.

[Trillian]

Um, I don't think the remark Iggles made was anti-Nikolai. In fact, I'm quite sure it wasn't, as I happen to have heard quite a few pro-Nikolai remarks from that particular source. There are those of us who don't consider an ego a bad thing, especially when it produces results and doesn't interfere with someone being a basically pleasant person.

As for Igor...well, Iggles can field that one, but I don't expect you'll be disappointed. ;)

[IgglesII]

Originally posted by Polish
Gee, really? :roll: You missed my point. I trying to make a point to Iggles about his previous anti-Shpilband stand.

What's with the word "previous"? Shall we discuss the idea that Melissa Ralph and Ryan O'Meara most likely lost a junior national title because Liz Coates wasn't there to teach them compulsories? Or that the previously bad situation in Detroit when two senior US dance teams existed under the same roof has been set up to happen again?

I also can't see how anyone would question that Nikolai has an ego - he bucked a coach with multiple Olympic Golds on her resume when she decided that two dance teams weren't worth her time...and he put one of those dance teams back on top of the US Senior podium, and the other one on top of the World podium. That took guts to tell Tarasova she was wrong.

Replacing Coates with Marina Z. didn't take guts. That was just dumb.

[butterfly]

Originally posted by IgglesII
What's with the word "previous"? Shall we discuss the idea that Melissa Ralph and Ryan O'Meara most likely lost a junior national title because Liz Coates wasn't there to teach them compulsories? Or that the previously bad situation in Detroit when two senior US dance teams existed under the same roof has been set up to happen again?

I also can't see how anyone would question that Nikolai has an ego - he bucked a coach with multiple Olympic Golds on her resume when she decided that two dance teams weren't worth her time...and he put one of those dance teams back on top of the US Senior podium, and the other one on top of the World podium. That took guts to tell Tarasova she was wrong.

Replacing Coates with Marina Z. didn't take guts. That was just dumb. Amen to all you have said....I totally agree. I am sure that Nikolai deserves to display a little ego and Tarasova can't stand the competition. As far as Marina replacing Liz, she didn't. That move by Detroit to bring Marina on board will be damaging for years to come.

[quark]

Originally posted by IgglesII
What's with the word "previous"? Shall we discuss the idea that Melissa Ralph and Ryan O'Meara most likely lost a junior national title because Liz Coates wasn't there to teach them compulsories? Or that the previously bad situation in Detroit when two senior US dance teams existed under the same roof has been set up to happen again?
That's partially true. Although Ralph and O'Meara didn't know compulsories because Marina doesn't know how to teach them, the program that probably cost them the Championship was the OD. Based on my observations, Igor uses international competition to hone his programs. Since the USFSA cancelled the JGP series in 2001, Igor had no way of getting feedback of the acceptance of his programs. LA was the first time he showed up with Ralph and O'Meara. Marina was with the team in Canada and at Mids. Their third place finish of the OD was more damaging than the poor showing in compulsories. If they had finished 2nd in the OD, they would have won the championship since they won the FD. We'll never know what "might have been." Too bad, since I thought their FD was one of the most interesting Junior programs I've ever seen.

Igor has actually done well with multiple Senior teams. Remember that the first 5 teams in 1998 at Nationals were all Igor teams. I believe he just loves to choreograph, and it's up to the teams to perform.

[Trillian]

Originally posted by quark
Igor has actually done well with multiple Senior teams. Remember that the first 5 teams in 1998 at Nationals were all Igor teams.

Yes, and how did that turn out? Within the next nine months Punsalen & Swallow retired from competition (granted, that probably had nothing to do with the training situation), Joseph & Butler split and he retired, Chalom & Gates left the DSC, and Robinson & Breen both retired. Then, when he had Lang & Tchernyshev and Silverstein & Pekarek both at the senior level in 2000, L&T left that year and S&P split not long after that. It works for a little while--it doesn't appear to work in the long run.

Not saying it won't work out in this case, though, especially since I highly doubt Nussear & Forsyth will be even remotely challenging Belbin & Agosto anytime soon (a real shame considering how close they once were). Still, as far as I'm concerned, the point is valid.

[hippiechick]

WOW. This is certainly an interesting thread. Hello... quark! Sorry but I don't agree that Igor did well with 5 senior teams. Actually it was quite a disaster. There was alot of resentment from the teams that had been there longer toward the newer ones. Of course it was all covert and never openly expressed. But it was there and it was felt. Go Iggles! You said it all quite well and Trillian it will be interesting to see if history will repeat itself.

[quark]

Originally posted by hippiechick
WOW. This is certainly an interesting thread. Hello... quark! Sorry but I don't agree that Igor did well with 5 senior teams. Actually it was quite a disaster. There was alot of resentment from the teams that had been there longer toward the newer ones. Of course it was all covert and never openly expressed. But, he did! Show me someone else who has EVER been the coach of the top five teams in the nation, in the same competition. hey, nothing lasts forever.8-) Anyway, two teams is a lot different than juggling 5. I do agree that a lot of frustration occured in '98, but many of the breakups had nothing to do with his lack of attention. In fact, too much attention is not necessarily a good thing in Igor's stable.:P

Remember that was an Olympic year, and lotsa egos and dreams got bruised. For many teams, it was a time for change.

[what?meworry?]

having 5 senior national teams one year doesn't really count if they don't survive and prosper to achieve greater, long term results.

usfsa's goal is to develop teams that win international medals. while igor did that initially at the junior level astoundingly well, with the exception of b/a, none of the junior wonders survived, even though they were promising and should have had long careers. it is truely a tragedy for those talented competitors who fell by the wayside. other senior teams retired or left under debatible circumstances.

so far, b/a are the only survivors. (p/s and w/l don't count because they came to igor as adults.)

nikoli has yet to prove that he can handle as many senior teams as he has taken on. if he has a good support staff, perhaps. but what will the teams who are relegated to support staff think about that!

[GreekGoddess85]

so who is Daniil's new partner?
I was getting confused reading the posts LOL

[quark]

The word in the stands :twisted: at the DSC is that Mannon is just too big for O'Meara.

[snowflake]

what od you mean too big? like heavy or tall or just over all....be a little more specific

[Trillian]

Heh...if anyone's using the word "heavy" to describe Lydia, they need their eyes checked. She's thin even by dance standards, unless she's changed dramatically since I last saw her. I would assume the problem is height, and if that's the case, I have to say I really hate it when people use the word "big" in reference to taller girls. It has a kind of negative connotation in this sport and certainly isn't fair to a lot of these skaters who, if anything, could stand to gain weight.

[butterfly]

I think "big" here is just used as a comparison term between Omeara and Mannon. Few people, although I have seen a few, are fat "big" in ice dance. Omeara is quite short for a guy and she is not, so the look is somewhat not perfect. I'm sure that Igor would never have let them be a team if she was fat "big". Everyone knows how Igor feels about thinness in his women skaters. Although, I also have heard they don't look that good together, but time will tell.

[quark]

Originally posted by snowflake
what od you mean too big? like heavy or tall or just over all....be a little more specific Sorry, ....Tall. Lydia is certainly not heavy. It's the look that can become a problem in ice dance when the partners are close to the same height. Many people have commented on the issue in ice dance. The numbers don't tell the whole story. It's just a reflection of the bigger problem of matching girls and guys, when guys are in short :D supply.

[WeBeEducated]

I think we all need to understand that very very very few girls will find that absolutely perfect icedance partner, and they all settle for what they can find.
Still, I am not the least bit concerned with a stereotype dance couple "look".
I love couples that break the mold, or snub their noses at it.
I could care less if Igor "likes his girls thin".
so what! Who is he? the God of icedance?
And, who has EVER spoken directly with a panel of international icedance judges and heard them say " we only like a certain body type, and a certain height, and a certain look this season"?
Nobody..this is simply an assumption, and many dance teams dont fit that imagined/relished image of "just right".
And historically, some great teams were made up of imperfect couples, such as Torvill and Dean. Jane was just a short, average looking skater, (with huge talent).
If you wait around for Mr Perfect(or Miss Perfect) in terms of appearance, there will be even fewer teams, if any, in the US!
I want to see couples who can dance, who can move, who can feel the music genuinely, who can naturally emote, and who can skate beautifully. If they are not a matching Barbie and Ken who the heck really cares? I dont
It disturbs me to see people focus so much interest and energy on minute physical attributes, and it is discussed far more than the couples actual ability to perform! If the judges are also this shallow then I say lets not pretend its a sport. GREAT dancers, on ice and off, have something special that cannot be measured with a scale or a tape measure. Great couples on ice are rare...lets give as many folks as possible a chance to create something together that is more than the sum of their body parts.

[butterfly]

WeBeEducated, in a fair world you would be correct. Ice dancing is not a fair world. The look or line of the team is very important and at any tryout that is one of the primary points of consideration along with skating ability, flexibility, etc. You must admit that in figure skating that presentation is judged. If you had a chubby. short guy and a tall, thin girl icedance team with great costuming, and speed, feels the music and had been choreographed by the best, you must agree the judges would look past good choreography and speed, musical ability and costuming and be turned off by the "look" of the team.

That is not to say that teams must be perfect, but my point is the "look" is important. Dance is by its very nature, elegant and romantic and that can be interpreted through a "look". Unfairly, it is the whole package.

I agree with you that more imperfect teams should enjoy ice dance, but don't expect them to be on the national or world stage.

[WeBeEducated]

I disagree that dance is always "elegant and romantic". Sometimes it is. Sometimes it is cool and funky, and long boned, skinny people dont do that very well! Sometimes dance is acrobatic and jazzy...and again, long boned people are often not the best acrobatic type dancers. And romance has nothing to do with it. If it is a sport, then romance, or the overdone pretense of romance has no role . All I am trying to say is that dancers at the top have never been all tall and skinny! You are not correct in saying that those are the only ones to hope to succeed. It simply isnt true. If it isnt true for the past and present, it isnt true for the future as well.
Based on judging and results, success in icedance has little to do with height, and more to do with politics, plus a teams' charisma, their ability to sell a program , and their polish and style. Many have been short. (Pasha, Torvill, Maya, Judy Blumberg, Renee, etc.) and many have actually had a more athletic body type, such as ShaeLyn Bourne, and the wonderful Suzannah Rokomo from Finland, and Isabelle duchesney...some of the best and most memorable do not fit that long boned and skinny stereotype.
So, if a couple is close in height, they can be magical, or if there is a 6 inch difference, they can look great too, so just about anything can work, except if the girl is taller than the guy. The line is important to some degree but lets not pretend that a freedance is judged on matching leg length. There is something wrong with the idea that dancers should all look alike! It isnt that dance is "unfair". it is simply archaic to demand the fulfillment of a phycial stereotype in a sport!
As for the icedance world, there needs to be more diversity, more uniqueness to the couples, more depth to their abilities, more relevance to the times.

[KingBob]

Originally posted by WeBeEducated
If you wait around for Mr Perfect(or Miss Perfect) in terms of appearance, there will be even fewer teams, if any, in the US!
.... If they are not a matching Barbie and Ken who the heck really cares?

Well, I don't think that Ken and Barbie match at all... she is way too tall for him, plus I'm pretty sure that Ken is gay. HAve you ever seen a man with a perma-tan that wasn't gay??? (Besides Peter T??)

Edited to add: WARNING, contains Sarcasm!!!!!!

[IceDanceSk8er]

Originally posted by KingBob
Well, I don't think that Ken and Barbie match at all... she is way too tall for him, plus I'm pretty sure that Ken is gay. HAve you ever seen a man with a perma-tan that wasn't gay??? (Besides Peter T??)

I think this is the most idiotic thing anyone has ever posted on this forum. Next time, try posting something that has more substance and shows that you have a little intelligence.

[butterfly]

WeBeEducated...

Please don't misunderstand, I don't believe all dancers must be tall and skinny. I only believe they must look like a match (whatever that is to the eye).

I agree with much of what you have said, but you sound so angry and jaded, I don't blame you...the sport is frustrating. This all started because someone made a comment that Mannon looked wrong in height for Omeara. Omeara may grow some muscles to lift Mannon and Igor may do a miracle of choreography...time will tell. For me a more interesting team will be Nussear/Forsyth. Has anyone heard or seen how they are doing?

[WeBeEducated]

ok, moving on;)
I havnt heard any more news on Nussear and Forsythe. To tell you the truth I think both Lydia Manon, and Emilie Nussear are capable of much better partners IF they were available. I wish we had guys like Rohene Ward doing dance...it is just so boring these days and so repetitive. I was looking at a recent pic of the current Olympic silver medalists in dance in their costumes for the "rock and roll" freedance they created this year. OMG! it is hysterically dated and comical looking. It looks like very bad ballroom dance, circa Strictly Ballroom. Alot of the material in icedance either is melodramatic angst, or Las Vegas lounge act quality. Where is there something new and unique? something daring? something that pushes the envelope? something that shakes up the predictable?
Icedance, and icedancers seem very cream of wheat to me, and the athletic foundation of it is giving way to a contrived form of choreography without substance and meaning, much less 21st century creativity.
yeah, I guess I am jaded, and frustrated.

[KingBob]

Originally posted by WeBeEducated
Where is there something new and unique? something daring? something that pushes the envelope? something that shakes up the predictable?
Icedance, and icedancers seem very cream of wheat to me, and the athletic foundation of it is giving way to a contrived form of choreography without substance and meaning, much less 21st century creativity.


You have hit the nail on the head WeBe....

It seems as though the dance teams are trying so hard just to be DIFFERENT these days that they have lost thier regard for beauty and elegance. It seems to be a race to see who can be the oddest and the fastest, instead of who can be the most creative while still maintaining the integrity of the sport.

The last time I saw a truely creative yet beautiful team was Judy Blumberg and Micheal Siebert..... where is the team that can fill thier footsteps?

[Angel01673]

IMO W/L and L/T are creative, but they just need to add more difficulty inbetween. And yet some of the teams who have difficulty, C/S and FP/M, don't pay enough attention to detail and are too busy flailing they're arms to be creative. So nowadays it's like an either/or situation, either creative, innovative, nice and flowing but not enough difficulty or difficulty and speed, but frentic, lack of attention to detail, and same old same old.

Out of the up and coming teams I really liked Flo and Augie though, Flo just pulled you in and Augie was pretty good technically. I thought they were going to have a great future together. But other than Matthews/Zavozion(sp?) I don't really see anything special about many of the up coming teams. Sure a lot of them are nice, but they don't have "IT". Maybe it wouldn't be a problem, if so many people didn't have to "settle" for a partner.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by KingBob
Well, I don't think that Ken and Barbie match at all... she is way too tall for him, plus I'm pretty sure that Ken is gay. HAve you ever seen a man with a perma-tan that wasn't gay??? (Besides Peter T??)

Edited to add: WARNING, contains Sarcasm!!!!!!

way to go, kb.

laughter is good for one's brain chemistry. one feels better, happier, even. one thinks more clearly, more positively.

ahhem.

icedancesk8er, lighten up! rx: laugh

so much for that. get real, physical match goes a long way toward making a team pleasant to look at, more or less talent notwithstanding.

now, i'm going to review this thread to resurrect the mix'n'match team lists to date to see if we can come up with more information.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by quark
The word in the stands :twisted: at the DSC is that Mannon is just too big for O'Meara.

well, duh!

i don't know what igor is thinking with this match up.

lydia is a nice skater and i'd like to see her back in the arena with a good partner, but o'meara ain't it.

o'meara needs to consider relocating to another training area that doesn't require the thin waif female look to find a well matched partner. he isn't exactly the "thin waif" guy partner look.

[what?meworry?]

recap of senior and junior teams as per latest posting. let's get together and ask the rink spies to report!

senior:
nussear/forsythe
goodwin/bommentre
manon/omeara
mitake/chassman
matthews/zavozin
navarro/shmalo
gregory/petukov
lang/tchernychev
belbin/agosto
galler-rabinowitz/mitchell
gibbons/pekarek
(wester/barantsev will not compete this season)
(russell/metzger missing, not reports of observed training)

junior:
frisch/hill
rosenberg/bird
pratt/gilles
evans/david ?
cohen/whetstone
solomon/smith
devins/okeefe
cepican/lichtor
davis/white
donowick/unger
mccullough/dear
wingle/warren
allepach/westenberger
steffy/brown (? senior, by age)

there are still a lot of singles out there. do any of you know about new
pairings?

novice! they tend to fly below radar until they emerge at lake placid. any reports of existing novices staying novice and new teams?

[ohiosk8]

What's up with Moxley/Kirsanov? Are they not together any longer? They are not listed on the USFSA team envelopes for 2003-04.

[Azam356]

And what about Russell/Metzger?

[Trillian]

Originally posted by ohiosk8
What's up with Moxley/Kirsanov? Are they not together any longer? They are not listed on the USFSA team envelopes for 2003-04.

In that case, they've probably split. I heard after nationals that this pairing wasn't likely to last, so if that's the case, I'm really not surprised. They were a good match on the ice but it sounds like there were other factors.

I've also noticed that Gibbons & Pekarek were not named to the reserve team as I might have expected. Since it sounds like they're still in training for next year, it may be that the USFSA decided not to name any of the lower-ranked senior teams until they've earned an international assignment. (In that case, Moxley & Kirsanov could possibly still be together also, but I'm inclined to guess they're not.)

[Sylvia]

Originally posted by Azam356
And what about Russell/Metzger?

They're both students at UCal-Berkeley and may still compete together in the future. See QualDir's posts in this thread:
http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8162&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

[quark]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
well, duh!

i don't know what igor is thinking with this match up.

Income? :roll:

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by Trillian
...I've also noticed that Gibbons & Pekarek were not named to the reserve team as I might have expected. Since it sounds like they're still in training for next year, it may be that the USFSA decided not to name any of the lower-ranked senior teams until they've earned an international assignment. (In that case, Moxley & Kirsanov could possibly still be together also, but I'm inclined to guess they're not.)

actually, as pleasant a team as g/p seemed at nationals, they weren't all that impressive.

this is not to say they don't have long-range potential, but hilliary has a long way to go. she has a lovely, gentle look, but was struggling.

justin is very much the gentleman and was considerate of her in their first shot at competition. there just seems to be a lot of work aheard of them. i hope they persevere.

[IceDanceSk8er]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
actually, as pleasant a team as g/p seemed at nationals, they weren't all that impressive. this is not to say they don't have long-range potential, but hilliary has a long way to go. she has a lovely, gentle look, but was struggling. justin is very much the gentleman and was considerate of her in their first shot at competition. there just seems to be a lot of work aheard of them. i hope they persevere.

Hillary and Justin are thriving in the Boston training environment. They're looking very good. Hillary has greatly improved since Dallas and is working her butt off. They look great together.

[OneHandClapping]

In answer to what?meworry? and novice teams...The Dails have broken up, but both seemingly have new partners. Caitlin is skating with Nick-somebody who has been @ Laurel for awhile working with Liz & Genrich. Matthew is now skating with Alexa Bradshaw-Kreimer who is moving to MD from NC. She was @ the USFSA tryouts in CO. And the word is that Liz is staying in Laurel.

[figuresk8er229]

aww, i can't believe the dails aren't skating together anymore. I had competed w/them in intermediate dance two yrs ago...and they looked great!!! I saw them earlier last year too and they really had improved!! :) Do u know why they decided to split? :(

[what?meworry?]

i just got a reply to my pm from harris that he has a partner, but no specifics. anyone have details?

the only thing i know is that he seems reborn and optomistic.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by OneHandClapping
In answer to what?meworry? and novice teams...The Dails have broken up, but both seemingly have new partners. Caitlin is skating with Nick-somebody who has been @ Laurel for awhile working with Liz & Genrich. Matthew is now skating with Alexa Bradshaw-Kreimer who is moving to MD from NC. She was @ the USFSA tryouts in CO. And the word is that Liz is staying in Laurel.

thanks.

i think i'm glad liz is staying in laurel. genrich is an excellent choreographer and she an incredible technical coach. it may take time, but i think they can build a group of successful teams if they start with young talent. i think that sometimes the "old timers" (as in junior and senior) have too much history to make a fresh start.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by quark
Income? :roll:

i don't think so. he has lots of lemmings who migrate through dsc in hopes of becomine stars.

i think it may go back to the old rumor about a judge telling omeara he should go work with igor. he split from lea nitake to do so. igor also the season later "acquired" lydia manon from chris obzanski (of the recently veryl successful goodwin/obzansky, what genuine payback!) to skate with klus who "mysteriously" decided to leave allison newman. now, you've go to understand that all of these teams were potentioal challengers to igor's teams!

so i really feel this is an arrangement of desperation for multiple reasons.

[Harris!here!]

There are no details, I did not say have a partner. I said "If I get a partner this year..." Sorry, I know. Not as interesting. But these things happen!
Cheers


Jon~

[ladyluck]

Flo Steed is going to be competing for france. Her partner's name is Jordi Rozzot (think that's how you spell it). She is moving there sometime in july.

[icedancingnut31]

Delobel and Schoenfelder are with Zazoui. Yes Grushina and Goncharov represent Ukraine. Svetlana Kulikova broke up again.

[mack]

Anyone know of any new teams ? novice and junior?

[BCsk8]

Shannon Wingle and James Warren broke up. I believe she has decided to quit skating.

[WeBeEducated]

That is certainly interesting news.
I have often wondered if Shannon was actually in poor health, because I have never seen a young teen that thin and pale . I hope she is ok and that her decision was based on totally different reasons.

[rudi]

Anyone know if McKenzie Moliver (not sure how to spell her name) found a new partner? I met her and her mom at a competition one time (nice people). I saw that she was at one time skating with a previous partner, but I hadn't heard anything about her after her and her partner broke up, so I was just curious.

[Anjelica]

No she has not found a new partner and is not skating at the moment I believe.

[Lexie]

Icedancenut31

Not sure what you were refering to when you said that Svetlana Kulikova had broken up again but she is still skating with Vitally. Maybe you were refering to her breakup with Arseni. Just thought I would clarify that.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by WeBeEducated
...I have often wondered if Shannon was actually in poor health, because I have never seen a young teen that thin and pale . I hope she is ok and that her decision was based on totally different reasons.

well, i have. she's a skinny kid. they fill out later. you can't be in "poor health" and perform as well as she did.

i do however wonder what the real reason was for the split. i didn't care for the significant age difference, even though they skated very well. perhaps they'll each be looking for more suitable partners, age-wise?

[mack]

As of now - who are the junior teams? novice teams?

[what?meworry?]

funny you should ask. for lack of anything productive to do today, i've attempted to compile some lists from the usfsa records.

junior (in no particular order):

copely/wensel (added) (easterns)
cepican/lichtor (mids or easterns)
allepach/westenberger (pacifics)
mccollough/dear (mids or easterns)
devins/o'keefe (easterns)
evans/david (last name anyone?) (mids or ?)
solomon/smith (easterns or pacifics)
frisch/hill (easterns or mids)
pratt/gilles (mids)
whetstone/cohen (mids or easterns)
donowick/unger (mids or pacifics)
davis/white (mids)
rosenberg/bird (pacifics or mids)
steffy/brown (pretty old for junior, senior?) (mids)
prossack/mccrary (added per post) (easterns or mids)

(novice to follow, but it will take longer and i don't want to be blown out off the site 'cause i'm taking too long)

back. i made some calls today and got some very speculative information that could very well need correction. feel free.

novice (in no particular order)

koob-doddy/antonelli (pacifics or easterns)
bradshaw-kreimer/dail (easterns)
dail/?somebody (easterns)
samuelson/bates (mids)
hauser/treusdell (mids)
noel/edellman (mids)
rosenthal/taylor (easterns)
scarincio/morrow (easterns)
pennington/varraux (easterns)
donegan/comee (confirmed) (easterns)
mcguire/hill (pacifics or mids)
weaver/clavey mids or easterns)
von zabern/marquardt (pacifics)
calhoun/miller (confirmed) (pacifics)
palmer/stucke (pacifics)
(copely/wensel) (deleted---see new post below--moved to junior)
(gober/deavers) (deleted---split, see post below)
scott/clark (easterns)
mokris/meyers (added---see post below) (mids)
mafazy/mafazy (added---see post below) (mids)
lazarowitz/jarmuth (added---see post below) (pacifics)

i'm not real confident on the novice list. it's mostly a compilation of last year's competitions and nac postings and a number of phone calls i made to some folks. i hope those who have more accurate info will jump in and contribute to this novice list.

[mack]

great job! how about novice?

kearns/klein
weeks/dittrick?????

I don't recognize some of the teams - i guess they are new

[what?meworry?]

justs edited my previous post to include novice.
any and all, please add and correct.

[what?meworry?]

mack---

i don't know that they're not together, they may be. i didn't list beyond a certain ranking. usually there's a lot of attrition at that level.

i added new teams who were reported to me, and hoped that anyone who had first hand info on existing teams i didn't list would speak up.

[Trillian]

The fact that Donegan & Comee (on your novice list) didn't get a NACS event makes me think they've possibly split. They placed ahead of Weaver & Clavey, who were assigned, at both regionals and JN's, so chances are they wouldn't have been passed over. However, perhaps they declined for some reason? (I seem to recall they did that last year.)

[Abahple]

Trillian: Donegan and Comee split up several months ago.

[rubberducky]

Donegan/Comee did not split up. They have a difficult time arranging for training during the year. They turned down the "NAC" for that reason. Fiona has recently injured her foot. The team is planning to do regionals. Calhoun/Miller are still together & training and planning to do Lake Placid.

[Abahple]

My apologies, I was thinking of another Boston team, Holly Nadeau and Jared Ramsdell. :oops:

[mack]

Where do Donegan/Comee train?

[rubberducky]

They train in Boston

[what?meworry?]

i did notice that gober/deavers were skipped over for nac assignment.

teams ranking 5, (6th place were dails), 7, 9 and 10 received an assignment and they ranked 8th and didn't.

anyone know why?

[sonora]

I heard Gober & Deavers broke up, and she is trial judging.

[WeBeEducated]

Weeks/Dettrick (trained with Chip Rossbach in Cleveland)broke up

Add to still existing in Novice
Mokris/Myers...training with Tiffany Hyden(Colorado)

Mafazy/Mafazy...training with Sandy Lamb (Indianapolis)

[KingBob]

Anyone know if the Youngs are still training?? They had taken a year off, I heard they were training again, but I haven't heard anything about them in a few months... any Seattle people out there with any news?

[Impromptu]

Originally posted by WeBeEducated

Mafazy/Mafazy...training with Sandy Lamb (Indianapolis)

Have they always been training there or did they recently move? For some reason, I thought they trained in Cincinnati (they represented the Queen City FSC at Mids), but I could just have gotten them confused with another team.

[WeBeEducated]

They used to train in Cincinnati.
Luke Mafazy will be training with Serguei Zaitsev( junior freestyle)
and Raya and Luke will be training with Sandy Lamb(Novice Dance)

Did you know they were born in Africa?

[IceDanceSk8er]

Originally posted by WeBeEducated
Did you know they were born in Africa?

Did you also know that they are great kids!

[IceDanceSk8er]

So has anyone heard more about Wingle and Warren? Did they split up?

[IceDanceSk8er]

Originally posted by IceDanceSk8er
So has anyone heard more about Wingle and Warren? Did they split up?

Following up on my previous post, I think the USFSA may have confirmed the rumors that Shannon and James are no longer skating together. Their names were removed from the Reserve Envelope today, but they're still listed as skating a NACS.

[what?meworry?]

wingle/warren are no longer listed on the junior nac roster.

[what?meworry?]

based on copely/wensel being shifted from a novice nac to the junior nac, i'm shifting them from novice to junior competition.

any thoughts? usually this doesn't happen unless a team was planning to move up anyway.

[popeye]

Who will replacing Copely/Wensel in novice?

[what?meworry?]

as of just now, usfsa has not listed any replacement team.

if they do fill the slot, they'll have to go to sectionals ranking for novice, since there are no other national novice teams left, or to the 9th ranked or lower intermediate team at junior nationals, which seems unlikely.

donnegan/comee (5th ranked intermediate at junior nationals) who don't have an assignment (they're still together, so perhaps they turned it down) and samuelson/bates (6th ranked novice midwest sectionals), who didn't make nationals their first year as novices (they did a novice isu international after they won intermediate the year before) are two teams that jump to mind.

having way too much time on my hands, so to speak, i've now added the sectionals the junior and novice teams may skate. please correct, if anyone has updated info.

[Trillian]

I would assume Copely & Wensel are moving up. If they were planning to stay novice, the USFSA would likely have just offered the assignment to a higher-ranked novice team (Koob-Doddy & Antonelli).

As to who will replace them, I think Samuelson & Bates would be a good choice, but we'll see. Aren't Calhoun & Miller (fifth at Coasts) still together? If so, they do have the stronger position in terms of sectional finishes, so it depends whether the USFSA considers the fact that they were skating in a weaker field. As for Donegan & Comee, if they've already turned down one assignment (which it sounds like they did), they won't be offered one again.

[ohiosk8]

To junior add Andrew McCrary and Ashira Prossack (sp??)

[SouthernSk8rMom]

What about nos. 7 and 8 from Junior Nationals? Maybe Wyble and Reinhold (no. 7) will remain intermediate since last year was their first at that level. No. 8, Von Zabern and Marquardt, plan to be novices this year. On the other hand, haven't previous vacancies like this been assigned from Lake Placid? There is also Elleman and Serebrenik (sp?), who I believe were fifth at Easterns, same finish as Calhoun/Miller.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by Trillian
I would assume Copely & Wensel are moving up. If they were planning to stay novice, the USFSA would likely have just offered the assignment to a higher-ranked novice team (Koob-Doddy & Antonelli).

As to who will replace them, I think Samuelson & Bates would be a good choice, but we'll see. Aren't Calhoun & Miller (fifth at Coasts) still together? If so, they do have the stronger position in terms of sectional finishes, so it depends whether the USFSA considers the fact that they were skating in a weaker field. As for Donegan & Comee, if they've already turned down one assignment (which it sounds like they did), they won't be offered one again.

samuelson/bates were 6th place (of 13) novice at mids
but,
calhoun/miller were 5th place (of 7) novice at pacifics
(elliman/serebrenik were 6th place of 9 novice at easterns)
fyi,
wyble/reinhold were 7th place interm. at jr. nat'ls
vonzabern/marquardt 8th place interm. at jr. natls

my guess also would be samuelson/bates because of their previous experience. they won intermediate the year before and competed in the isu novice competition that same year. but i don't know if usfsa has an official "formula" they apply in such cases.

[WeBeEducated]

What about...
the Lautens? they were at Novice nats
Lauren Hockel and Justin Thelan?
Lisa Mancuso and Bryce Wonders...will they be Junior this year?

[Sylvia]

Originally posted by popeye
Who will replacing Copely/Wensel in novice?

Fiona Donegan/ Ian Comee (5th in Intermediate at JN) have been added to the novice dance event at Thornhill:
http://www.usfsa.org/programs/athprog/nacs.htm

[what?meworry?]

both lautens were posted on the usfsa partner search list on 5-20-03.
hockel was posted on the usfsa site on 3-17-03
? mancuso/wonders - (they were 7th novice at easterns)

[El Dukea]

Wondewers and mancuso broke up as did hockel and thelen.

[sonora]

The Lautens have definitely split up, she is too tall for him. He may have trouble finding a partner because he is so short.

[mack]

What about Stacy McClellan/Peter Fischl and Lazarowitz/Jarmuth?

[jenlyon60]

Suzanne Lazarowitz and Nathan Jarmuth are planning to stay Novice this year. THey have what looks like it will be an awesome freedance.

[seahag]

What about Paul Hurych? Has he found a partner?

[Abahple]

Paul Hurych is skating with Natalie Bos.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by Abahple
Paul Hurych is skating with Natalie Bos.

novice or junior? (so they can be added to the list)

[what?meworry?]

it was just posted on the senior and junior thread that matthews/zavozin were staying junior.

icedancesk8er posted a list of senior teams on this thread on 4-13-03 that included mathews/zavozin with "(tested senior)" next to the team. (how confident are you in that icedancesk8er?)

can anyone help sort this out?

i've been updating the original junior and novice lists on this thread as new posts occur but it's pretty far back and should be redone soon.

[IceDanceSk8er]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
it was just posted on the senior and junior thread that matthews/zavozin were staying junior. icedancesk8er posted a list of senior teams on this thread on 4-13-03 that included mathews/zavozin with "(tested senior)" next to the team. (how confident are you in that icedancesk8er?)

Morgan and Max tested senior and will be competing senior, not junior.

[PlatniumAngel]

Lisa Mancuso and Brice wonders did not break up, he is currently injured and is taking some time off. I would assume they will be Novice. Justin Thelen is skating with Ashley Elliot who used to skate with Paul Hurych.

[what?meworry?]

time for a redo based on all the info contributed since 6-6:

14 or 15 junior teams (in no particular order):

?matthews/zavozin (also listed on senior)*
x(bos/hurych) (delete-see 6/12 post below)
copely/wensel (easterns)
cepican/lichtor (mids or easterns)
allepach/westenberger (pacifics)
mccollough/dear (mids or easterns)
devins/okeefe (easterns)
solomon/smith (easterns or pacifics)
frisch/hill (easterns or mids)
pratt/gilles (mids)
whetstone/cohen (mids or easterns)
donowick/unger (pacifics)
davis/white (mids)
rosenberg/bird (pacifics or mids)
prossack/mccrary (easterns or mids)
evans/david ?somebody (can anyone supply a last name?) (mids or


20 or 21 novice teams (in no particular order)

koob-doddy/antonelli (pacifics or easterns)
bradshaw-kreimer/dail (easterns)
samuelson/bates (mids)
noel/edellman (mids)
rosenthal/taylor (easterns)
scarincio/morrow (easterns)
pennington/varraux (easterns)
donegan/comee (easterns)
mcguire/hill (pacifics or mids)
weaver/clavey (mids or easterns)
von zabern/marquardt (pacifics)
palmer/strucke (pacifics)
calhoun/miller (pacifics)
?scott/clark (easterns) (possibly junior - see post below)
mokris/meyers (mids)
mafazy/mafazy (mids)
lazarowitz/jarmuth (pacifics)
elliot/thelen (easterns or pacifics)
x(mancuso/wonders) (delete-see 6/12 post below)
kearns/klein (easterns) (see post below)
mcclelland/fischl (easterns) (see post below)
dail/nick ?somebody (can anyone supply a last name?) (easterns or

can't imaging there's much new information to plug in for right now, but if anyone has updates, i'll edit to reflect.

(*)edited to reflect additional information of equal merit from both posters.

[WeBeEducated]

Surely Bos and Hurych wouldnt be doing novice?!
He was Novice years ago ...I imagine he has continued to test and progress.

[what?meworry?]

that was my guess based on their placements on paper in novice last year: he placed last in south atlantics and she placed 7th of 13 at mids.

i hope abahple, who posted the info about the team, will report if they're junior or not.

[Abahple]

As of the USFSA Team Camp (which was at the end of April, after IceDanceSk8er's post), M/Z were telling fellow skaters that they were staying junior. Make of this what you will.

I'm afraid I don't know for sure what level Bos/Hurych will be competing, though I would guess junior. If for no other reason, then for the fact that she's 17, and depending on when her birthday is, this may be her last year of international eligibility.

[WeBeEducated]

oh, I didnt realize Paul was last place at Easterns....ouch!

[Twizzlers]

Paul and Natalie are not skating together. I'm not sure of the reasons, but I am certain that they are not a team.

Also, Mancuso/Wonders have split as well. From what I've heard, he has an injury that will keep him off the ice for several months.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by Abahple
As of the USFSA Team Camp (which was at the end of April, after IceDanceSk8er's post), M/Z were telling fellow skaters that they were staying junior. Make of this what you will.


i really don't know what a team would hope to gain by saying different things to different people within the same time frame.
would they think this gives them some sort of competitive advantage?

ok, if they stay junior, they're guaranteed a second junior national title, especially with the frish/bommentre and steed/hill splits.
the judges would never place them below first in junior after last year! and certainly not under a new or previously 4th or 5th ranked team.
m/z also are age-elegible for jgp/jr worlds thru the 2005/06 season, so why rush things?

but they do, however, lose valuable senior experience and training in compulsories (which they certainly need).
and, they'd probably rank somewhere in the middle, which would be very good for a new senior team.
b/a moved up with several years' of junior eligibility and it really paid dividends.

i guess the only people who could confirm if m/z are going senior would be the people who actually saw their senior fd test, if they tested.

so, for all of the above reasons, they get double listed, once in junior and once in senior.

harumph. this is just not a particularly orderly solution for our lists!

any further information pertaining to this classification dilemma will be greatly appreciated.

[Impromptu]

According to this thread on Unseen skaters:
http://www.unseenskaters.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=808 Kate Slattery will be skating for Korea (the thread has a link to an article and a photo, but the article is in Korean) with Chuen-Gun Lee.

[love2dance]

Originally posted by what?meworry?

time for a redo based on all the info contributed since 6-6:
scott/clark (easterns)


I believe that Scott/Clark are planning on cpmetiting Junior this year.

[mack]

Just saw it was posted back in April that Stacy McClellan/Peter Fischl skated novice at the 2003 Chery Blossom Comp. and that Kearns/Klein were also posted at another event skating novice

[Twizzlers]

Originally posted by what?meworry?


ah well, i'm afraid that the only people who could confirm if m/z are going senior would be the people who actually saw their senior fd test, if they tested.



Actually, that may not solve the problem either. I may be mistaken, but I believe that the USFSA passed a ruling a couple of years ago that states something like a dancer can compete at a lower level even if they have tested and passed to compete one level higher. The only stipulation would be that they could have never competed in a qualifying competition at the higher level. M/Z would fit into this if they have tested
because they have obviously never competed at the Senior level in a qualifying event.

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by Twizzlers
Actually, that may not solve the problem either. I may be mistaken, but I believe that the USFSA passed a ruling a couple of years ago that states something like a dancer can compete at a lower level even if they have tested and passed to compete one level higher. The only stipulation would be that they could have never competed in a qualifying competition at the higher level. M/Z would fit into this if they have tested
because they have obviously never competed at the Senior level in a qualifying event.
Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

you're partly right.

page 68 in the 2003 usfsa rulebook has a chart that summarizes qualifications. it specifically states that for junior dance the requirements are:

"both partners must have passed...the junior free dance test and the junior mif tests but not the senior free dance test."

what can be done, is that if a team tests the senior free dance and then splits up, each partner, with a new partner, may still compete at the junior level. (pages 31-32, cr8.09 b.3.):

(pg 32) "Further, if the skater chooses to compete at the junior level, they must do so with a partner other than the one with whom they passed the senior free dance test."

also, if that original team actually had competed in a usfsa qualifying competition as seniors, that option for each of the partners, should they split up, no longer applies.

i don't think there have been any changes since that rule went into effect a while ago.

[Twizzlers]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
you're partly right.



i don't think there have been any changes since that rule went into effect a while ago.


That was the change I was thinking of. Thanks for the clarification.

[Trillian]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
i really don't know what a team would hope to gain by saying different things to different people within the same time frame.
would they think this gives them some sort of competitive advantage?


I can't see what advantage it would give them. They could tell people anything they want, but the fact is that if they stay junior they'll almost definitely be able to win another national title, and if they move up they'll be strong contenders for a finish in the top six at the senior level. Nothing they say would change that.

However, perhaps they weren't completely decided at that point, and were going back and forth about it? I seem to recall a lot of indecision on the part of Belbin & Agosto the summer they tested senior--didn't they say they were definitely staying junior at one point, then decide to move up later? I can think of a lot of reasons they wouldn't be totally sure.

Anyway, I hope Morgan and Max really have tested up. Other than the worry about training junior and senior dances (which hasn't proven to be that big an issue for most past teams), I can't really see what they'd have to lose by moving up--and the senior experience could help them. And it's not like it'll hurt their chances of making the world junior team.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by Impromptu
According to this thread on Unseen skaters:
http://www.unseenskaters.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=808 Kate Slattery will be skating for Korea (the thread has a link to an article and a photo, but the article is in Korean) with Chuen-Gun Lee.

hey! with all this other stuff, this has not been noted.

i remember kate slattery's fd with patrick connally---a gospel piece---really gutsy and well performed.

she's relatively tall, as i recall, and i'm happy to hear she has a tall partner. i only wish they were skating here so i could see them.

but, this sounds like a great adventure. she's a nice kid. i briefly met her mom a couple of years ago, and her folks are very dedicated to her skating.

great picture! i wish i knew what the article said.

[IceDanceSk8er]

If you go to http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr it will allow you to translate the Korean website. However, whether or not the English is understandable after translation, has yet to be determined!:D

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by IceDanceSk8er
If you go to http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr it will allow you to translate the Korean website. However, whether or not the English is understandable after translation, has yet to be determined!:D

not goin' there. i've seen what they do to russian! but thanks for the link, anyway.

[WeBeEducated]

Maybe it's because I have had a really busy long week, but the Kate Slattery story just seems absurd to me!
For a teen to go all the way to KOREA!!!!! for icedancing, possibly give up American citizenship???????8O after years of not better than average results with at least 3 different partners...it just seems like a desperate act.
But I hope it turns out the way she hopes.
She sure must love competing!

[PlatniumAngel]

I think it's a great idea for Kate to skate for another country. Cheun-gun is a wonderful skater, and she will have more opportunity to go International competitions then she would have skating for America. She will automatically qualify for world's, how cool is that?? Nothing absurd about it.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by WeBeEducated
...For a teen to go all the way to KOREA!!!!! for icedancing, possibly give up American citizenship???????8O after years of not better than average results with at least 3 different partners...it just seems like a desperate act.
But I hope it turns out the way she hopes.
She sure must love competing!

ouch!

actually a number of usa female skaters have had great experiences---jenny dahlen who competed throughout her academic career at m.i.t for azerbajan (sp?), went to worlds more than once, i believe; galit chait who is, despite the controversies, doing rather well; kristen fraser, also doing well in world ranking currently, just to name those i can remember right now.

flo steed has an opportunity (and is unique among the group because she and her partner were well on the way up)---we're all happy to hear about her chance to live and compete in france.

kate slattery now has a special opportunity. but it's not likely that she will live in korea (hopefully she'll have a chance to travel there for part-time training) since chuen-gun trained here in the united states with his former partner (tae-hwa yang) with coaches jong-hyun ryu and natalia linichuk in newark, de!

as for giving up citizenship, you can always come back, citizenship in this global society isn't forever. besides, for many countries, it's easier to attain citizenship than in the usa or canada.

[love2dance]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
as for giving up citizenship, you can always come back, citizenship in this global society isn't forever. besides, for many countries, it's easier to attain citizenship than in the usa or canada.

There are also many countries that offer dual citizenship. Azerbiajian is one of those countries. I don't know about Korea, although I have a feeling that Kate will not be giving up her US citizenship.
In addition, I don't think anybody can deny, some of these smaller, less known countries (in terms of SKATING ONLY) are much more... what's the word... LENIENT with their issuance of passports. It's not in fact how many years the skater has "lived" in the country, but how much money the skater can afford to pay the skating federation of that country. This has happened over and over, and not only with American girls and Russian boys. There are plenty of pairs from other countries that felt they were not getting the attention and results they deserved, so they decided to skate for another country.
One more point: what is the difference between an American girl giving up her citizenship to skate for Korea, or Azerbiajian or for that mattter Kontsielevnichstan, and a Russian/German/Ukrainian/Polish/British BOY giving up his citizenship and skating for the US?

[icefreak]

Originally posted by love2dance
One more point: what is the difference between an American girl giving up her citizenship to skate for Korea, or Azerbiajian or for that matter Kontsielevnichstan, and a Russian/German/Ukrainian/Polish/British BOY giving up his citizenship and skating for the US?

My thoughts exactly.

[PlatniumAngel]

Another example is Jessica Huot and her Finish partner. They are representing Finland. They have gone to Jr. World's and World's for a number of years now.

[WeBeEducated]

There isnt really anything "wrong" with it, it just seems desperate to me, sort of a last chance gig.
Most girls in the USA would love to have the right partner, close to home, able to represent the USA, financially independent(ha), emotionally stable, physically well matched, and talented. When that doesnt happen, they look here , there, and everywhere, and accept just about ANYTHING and ANY kind of arrangement, and I call that a form of desperation.
When the Russian guys come to America to skate, it isnt for lack of partners, nor a last chance in an arrangement that is fairly one sided for example, but they are usually on the big end of the stick, and it works to their advantage on every level.
It is completely different than the Slattery $cenario.
But I wish her success, or at least a good time!
I guess I am cynical about the skating "market". sorry
As for Flo...now that is OUR loss! She is one of my favorites and I will miss seeing her but know that she indeed will have fun and success where ever she goes.

[butterfly]

Originally posted by WeBeEducated
Maybe it's because I have had a really busy long week, but the Kate Slattery story just seems absurd to me!
For a teen to go all the way to KOREA!!!!! for icedancing, possibly give up American citizenship???????8O after years of not better than average results with at least 3 different partners...it just seems like a desperate act.
But I hope it turns out the way she hopes.
She sure must love competing! I totally agree with you! I am always amazed at what lengths we go to in skating to achieve fame. Once you are caught in the maze of its importance you can't escape. Only a few are able to see and make choices that don't involve giving up your education, citizenship, family, money.......

It is an obssession with parents as well as skaters. Too bad we don't have the same passion for more worthwhile endeavors for our children.

I love skating as a sport and I love the competition, but I see the damage it has done to so many. Most of these skaters are and will stay average in the sport and no one ever tells them to take an honest look at what they are doing to their future.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by butterfly
...It is an obssession with parents as well as skaters. Too bad we don't have the same passion for more worthwhile endeavors for our children.
I love skating as a sport and I love the competition, but I see the damage it has done to so many. Most of these skaters are and will stay average in the sport and no one ever tells them to take an honest look at what they are doing to their future.

how dare you tell these young people who really love skating but aren't going to win medals they should not pursue their sport. and then cast aspersions on the motives of dedicated parents who support them!

MOST young athletes in MOST sports will be, as you put it "mediocre" but they take away from the experience of competitive sports significant "life lessons."

one of the most important of which is, to work hard, focus on and improve your own performance, and pick yourself up after falling on your butt and keep on going.

gee whiz, to carry your comment into generalized "society" would you they say that if you aren't good lookin' and smart, you have no reason to live. (remember randy newman's song "short people" the repise being "short people got no reason to live...")

there are a few sicko parents who will do anything to anyone, including their own children for success.

but the vast majority of the parents are dedicated to their children, and as long as their kids want compete, whether they win medals or not, will and should support and encouraged.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by WeBeEducated
...It is completely different than the Slattery $cenario.
But I wish her success, or at least a good time!
I guess I am cynical about the skating "market". sorry
As for Flo...now that is OUR loss! She is one of my favorites...

clearly kate is NOT one of your favorites!

flo and her former partner were fortunate enough to have teamed up when they did, and did very well while they competed together.

kate was not fortunate enough to find the right partner to build sufficient "credentials" competitively before now.

just like kristen fraser, perhaps this is now kate's opportunity.

i don't see this as just a financial gig, unlike a few obvious other "teams" over the years.

goodness knows i don't approve of incompetent female skaters buying a russian (or whatever) but i think, based on what i saw, that kate has potential.

as i said, this may be not only a great adventure, but also her first real opportunity to excell.

[Azam356]

I totally agree with We be Educated and Butterfly. There is a time to throw in towel and get on with real life. If you "love" skating then go to the collegiate competitions,go to local competitions but get an education and have some life. It sounds so dedicated that these kids are going so far from home perhaps all alone at 17 years of age for their sport but where will they be in 5 years or so with no college education ,some barely a high school education.the parents should be"parents" and know when to quit. If the child hasnt made the top in the US yes they may be able to have the experience of going to worlds for another country but is it worth the price just for the experience of it.?
And for what it is worth I dont see why it is OK for Flo and not kate . Neither could apparently get a US partner Didnt Lia Natake take a novice level partner? but she is staying here.I would think if you cant find a partner in your own country it is time to do some rethinking of your life and where you need to be- certainly the parent should be thinking that way People will write in now that to quit might be passing up a future great team etc etc and dont take dreams away but face the truth =what are the chances of going anywhere and doing so much better than you could here .You do better maybe becasue that country doenst have the competition you have here but it catches up
and What Me Worry if Flo is so wonderful without Augie why didnt she find a partner closer to home? The boy she is partnering with in France doesnt have such a great competitive record so dont say it is OK for Flo but not Kate This doesnt belong on this thread but it makes me mad when people think it is wonderful to give up education etc etc for a sport that is almost impossible t get to the top in
And now people will get mad at me and write in LOL

[love2dance]

Originally posted by Azam356
I totally agree with We be Educated and Butterfly. There is a time to throw in towel and get on with real life. If you "love" skating then go to the collegiate competitions,go to local competitions but get an education and have some life. It sounds so dedicated that these kids are going so far from home perhaps all alone at 17 years of age for their sport but where will they be in 5 years or so with no college education ,some barely a high school education.the parents should be"parents" and know when to quit. This doesnt belong on this thread but it makes me mad when people think it is wonderful to give up education etc etc for a sport that is almost impossible t get to the top in
And now people will get mad at me and write in LOL

I agree with your theory... education is VERY important. It is almost impossible to go anywhere in this world today without a college education. And I know a lot of skaters who were home schooled all through high school, and then when it comes time for college, they realize, hey, wait, I might actually have to DO something, and they drop out. Then you have a child with "almost" no education. However, I would like to point out that there are SO MANY skaters who are going to college and training at the same time... colleges are very flexible with their schedules, and many many skaters go to college part time. I cannot find one person who will say that it matters if you finish college in 6 years, and not 4.
Another point: for skaters who love competitions, collegiant stuff just isn't the same as Nationals, and the chance to have internationals. It's just not. THe competition isn't as intense and it doesn't have the same excitement as a National competition.
And my final point, figure skaters are not the only ones "giving up" their educations. It is a FACT that ther are some people in this world who just aren't good at school.... who just don't like it, don't want to work at it, or are just plain unmotivated. Those same people, may be the most talented athletes in their sport. Who are we, as outsiders looking in on a situation that we can't know everything about, to say, no, that's not how you should do it? Kate felt that her best option was to skate with Chen Gon. Kristen felt her best option was to skate for Azerbiajian and Flo feels her best option is skating for France. These are the decisions made by the skaters, coaches and parents. I would like to just point out, LeBron James, the basketball player from Ohio, who, fresh out of high school, signed a contract with the Cleveland Cavilers. He "barely" graduated high school... what good would 4 years of college do for him? He is going to be a basketball player... does he really need to study biochemistry or nuclear science? Same goes for figure skaters, or runners, or swimmers, or tennis players....

[butterfly]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
how dare you tell these young people who really love skating but aren't going to win medals they should not pursue their sport. and then cast aspersions on the motives of dedicated parents who support them!

MOST young athletes in MOST sports will be, as you put it "mediocre" but they take away from the experience of competitive sports significant "life lessons."

one of the most important of which is, to work hard, focus on and improve your own performance, and pick yourself up after falling on your butt and keep on going.

gee whiz, to carry your comment into generalized "society" would you they say that if you aren't good lookin' and smart, you have no reason to live. (remember randy newman's song "short people" the repise being "short people got no reason to live...")

but the vast majority of the parents are dedicated to their children, and as long as their kids want compete, whether they win medals or not, will and should support and encouraged. Whew!!! Chill. You completely took it the wrong way. Of course I believe that young athletes should follow their dream, work hard, etc. I have seen it up close and admire all that they put into it. My point is only that there seems to be a special obsession with figure skating that sacrifices a whole child and maybe their future. It is something to consider. In other sports the system kicks them out. They may be a star in a small high school but college lets them know they are not good enough to compete. In figure skating as long as daddy pays the bucks the coach will teach. If you manage to get to Nationals you may finish 9th for many years while your high school and college opportunities take second place. Please don't give me this balony about the vast majority of the parents are dedicated to their children and competition whether they win medals or not. Maybe when they are 5 or 6 but after that the parent is seriously involved with the win. With all that money over the years it isn't just for fun. Ask any serious skater.

If a kid wants to be a doctor and he can't pass the biology exam in high school and he can't get into medical school he makes other career plans so I don't have to worry about the general society. I have watched young people come to terms with what they want to do with their skating and how much they want to sacrifice their life plans to "maybe" be judged fairly at Nationals or Worlds and it is a hard struggle but those I have known have always been happy with their decision. I feel they have escaped not failed.

On my office wall I have a poster that says "Don't Ever Give Up" and that means on life not on one obsessive sport.

[Trillian]

Uh, I think some people have missed the point that Kate Slattery is NOT moving to Korea. Her new partner has trained in Delaware for some time already, so it's perfectly logical to assume they'll stay there. In fact, most of these skaters who are being accused of "going to other countries" have actually stayed right here in the U.S., where the better training facilities are. And it's not fair to assume someone is neglecting their studies without knowing for sure--particularly in the case of skaters who train at universities and could very well be taking classes there as well. :roll:

As for pairing up with skaters from other countries, I know opinions on that vary--but if people want to keep skating, and they're financially able to do so, it shouldn't be contingent on whether they have great results. In the case of Kate, I exchanged a couple of e-mails with her a few years ago, and while I don't even remember what was discussed anymore, I do recall something about the exchange leading me to think, "Wow, this girl really loves ice dancing." Personally, I'm happy to have all the people who really love to do it stay in the sport as long as they'd like.

[Azam356]

Maybe Kate isnt moving but from what I have read Flo is She is 17 hasnt finished high school and is moving halfway around the world alone for skating. Something seems wrong with this picture? what about lifes expereiences of your senior prom ,graduation day among other things Parents do get so involved in this they cant see the forest for the trees. Most of these skating kids are very smart and could go to college but firstly many of them do have very strange reading high school records to even get in to college and then if you put it off untill you are 25 you sure dont have the same "college life experience" that you would at 18.What might be glamorous at 18 -skating around the world isnt so glamorous when you are 30 coaching in a freezing rink worrying if you have enough students to pay your rent and thats all you have known to do so you cant do anything else.
If the child truly"loves skating " then they will enjoy the collegiate competitions becasue after all they arent in it for the medals but the "joy of skating"and if you truly love the sport it isnt even about competition it is just about having a rink to skate in.
And there is no sport that will convince me that it is wise to send your child away from home alone to live in a apartment at 15 or with strange families .Im not talking of 18 year olds but the school age group of young teens For every kid that "makes it" in skating how mnay dont?? and at what age do they pick up teh pieces and go on with life and at what expence. These are parental issues but I agree that as long as daddy or someone is footing the bill most(not all)parents are soo wrapped up in this that they cant walk away and many times the child really does want to. and of course then there are the kids who skate so they dont have to live at home and skating is thier way out but I wont get into that

[Ellyn]

Some of these skaters may intend to make a future career of coaching (or skating choreography). One would hope they will take relevant college or professional courses as part of that preparation, but skating internationally/at the senior level is also better experience for that career path even if they don't end up as champions than quitting at the junior level would be.

There's also a lot to be learned by living in another country.

There are skaters and parents who are chasing unrealistic dreams, cutting off educational opportunities and pouring money into skating in hopes of medals that will never be forthcoming.

There are also skaters and parents who want to get the most possible skating opportunities out of the skater's abilities, however far that may take them, knowing that senior international medals or a trip to the Olympics may prove to be out of reach but also knowing that they haven't maxed out *yet* at the junior level so there's still room to achieve better skating and experience a higher level of competition. And some of these skaters may also have plans for developing nonskating skills and experiences while training or competing, or at least vague plans to go to college when they're done.

Without knowing any more about a given individual than past competitive record and nationality of current partner, we don't have sufficient information to know what their intentions or expectations are.

And there's certainly no requirement for everyone to fit a single norm of college experience. Finishing in four years while living on campus the whole time would describe only a minority of the students at my college, for example. Different students have different needs and different opportunities.