Could the SARS outbreak cancel Toronto SOI

[Tigger]

Sorry if this is in the wrong forum, but it seemed too general to be in the Shows forum.

The World Health Organization called Toronto a Hot Zone of the SARS virus yesterday and another hospital has been isolated. W/thousands of people being put into isolation or being told to go into voluntary isolation, it's got me wondering.....Should or will Toronto SOI be cancelled?

I know I'm wondering if it's worth it to come down for the show. I do have tickets for Hamilton and London shows, but is it worth it to come down for even those? It's getting really scary and....Well....Any thoughts?

[jcspkbfan]

Unless this epidemic gets a lot worse (and I sincerely hope it doesn't), I can't forsee any SOI shows being cancelled in the near future. All of the other Canadian athletes cancelling or postponing sporting events either had plans to travel to Asia (where the disease originated) or just returned from there, and of course, this isn't the case with the SOI skaters. If anything, the SOI skaters would probably be under less risk than usual since, as far as I know, the disease hasn't seriously hit the United States yet. As far as I know, there aren't any cases of the disease in Hamilton or London yet, but again, things might be different in a couple of weeks.

If the Toronto SOI show was cancelled, they'd probably have to cancel every other sporting or entertainment event in the city, and it doesn't sound like the illness is widespread enough to take such drastic precautions right now. From what I understand, this disease isn't as contagious as a cold or the flu (otherwise, there'd be a lot more people affected) and most of the people who have caught it (and most of the people affected by the quarantine) are either health-care workers or close family members of other affected people.

I hope all the people placed under quarantine will have the good sense to stay in isolation until they're out of danger, and you'll have to use your own discretion as to whether or not to take the chance, but I can't see SOI (or any other show/sporting event in Toronto) being cancelled unless the epidemic gets a lot worse (which, again, I sincerely hope won't happen).

[Tigger]

Just bumping this up since we're getting closer to the show date.

For the first time in ten years, I won't be going to Toronto SOI and it's due to the SARS outbreak. I'm also betting that the Net and various skating lists will be flooded w/people wanting to sell their Toronto tickets due to fear of SARS.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the show ends up being cancelled. Even at this late date. If the show does indeed go on, then I wouldn't be shocked to hear if the reception is cancelled or to hear the skaters didn't shake hands after the Closing Number and who would blame them!?!

It's getting truly scary.

[chrisa]

I hope it doesn't get cancelled. This SARS thing is getting way out of hand. You don't just drop dead from it or catch it from walking down the street. It requires a little more contact than that. In Toronto most people who have died from it are the population most susceptible to dying from illnesses like pneumonia and the flu anyway. And, they got it from close contact with other victims. I haven't heard of anyone who just caught it off the street. There have been direct linkages made between cases, some originating from the woman who got it in Hong Kong in the hotel where they believe the international spread began.

It's the stupid people of the world who don't stay in quarantine when they are told to, who expose so many people, that are causing this spread. If people who were ill, (or had been to some parts of Asia, or were in close contact with those who did have it or died from it), stayed home for the entire duration of their quarantine then this wouldnt' be spreading the way it is. Instead we have people, who decide they need to write their exams, decide they can't miss work, or figure you can't get it from being at a funeral parlour, who stupidly expose others. I just wish people would listen, stay home for the whole time and wash their hands.

A woman I know actually had SARS (she worked in the hospital) and recovered. Another woman was put into quarantine and was totally fine with no symptoms.

[evereg]

Calm down people! I am not a health official, but I think that people are getting a little too up tight about this. All the reported SARS cases in Toronto have been linked to the first person that died at Scarborough Grace Hospital. It has not made into the general community. There have not been any cases of someone getting SARS by going to a Leafs game or anything like that. Moreover, the few deaths have been the elderly or people that had prior serious medical conditions. In other words, people who were weak to begin with.

I don't think that anyone needs to refund his or her tickets from CSOI. My husband works in Toronto & he has continued to work there since the SARS outbreak. He has not come down with SARS or even the common cold for that matter. I think that the heighten media attention has warped people's perception of just how widespread this disease is. I heard a medical official, on CBC radio, say that there will be more deaths, in Canada, cause from infuenza than from SARS. That should give you some perceptive.

[Tigger]

There are two cases right now where they are *not* sure they can trace to the Grace. If that's so....Then there's big problems. Not just that, the WHO doesn't label a city a Hot Zone for fun.

I've talked w/my doctor about this and he doesn't think it's the safest thing for me to go to Toronto right now. I also have family in Toronto and they're scared of what might happen. They've decided not to come home for Easter weekend just to be on the safe side in case they've been in contact w/someone through their work and they don't know it.

This is my third post...I'm done!!

[VGL]

Tig, if your doctor is advising against it, I would say you're making the right decision. Your health situation would put you at a higher risk.

[jcspkbfan]

I know the SARS situation has gotten worse since my last post on this thread, but does anyone know if any major sporting or entertainment events have been cancelled in the Toronto area as a result?

I agree that the skaters may be a little less likely to shake hands, etc. after the show just to be on the safe side, but I still can't see a major event like SOI being cancelled altogether as a result of this.

Of course, if you get advice from a doctor telling you not to travel, etc, (I've heard people from the States are being advised not to make any unnecessary trips to the Toronto area, either, just to be on the safe side) that's a different story altogether--I just hope everyone else under quarantine/considered at a greater risk than most for catching the disease are smart enough to take similar precautions!

[NAdancefan]

Originally posted by chrisa
This SARS thing is getting way out of hand. You don't just drop dead from it or catch it from walking down the street.ITA that the SARS paranoia is getting way out of hand. I live in Toronto, and have come within close vicinity of Scarborough Grace Hospital almost daily. As a teacher and a university student, I work with hundreds of people daily, and not only have I not come into contact with anyone who's been quarantined for SARS, but I haven't even come into contact with anyone who knows anyone who's been quarantined for SARS. I'm sorry, but I have to laugh when I see people riding the subway in the city with medical masks on, and when I read all the hoopla in the paper about people being afraid to come to the city or locking themselves up in their hotel rooms when they do. Yes, it's possible you could come to Toronto for SOI or any other reason and end up with SARS, but I think it's probably almost equally possible you could come into the city on any given day and get hit by a bus. I don't mean to make light of the matter at all, but I just feel that things have been blown up to ridiculous proportions.

[Honey]

The hockey games are still going on and you don't see people
cancelling.
I just came back from Casino Rama after seeing Regis and it was
packed.
The casinos are still packing them in, and there are a lot of cultures
there. No one seems bothered.

As long as people feeling sick or having temperatures stay at home
I don't see any reason for us to panic and change our way of life.

I am still looking forward to CSOI and our bus tour is still going.
I would be very upset if it was cancelled as I have been looking
forward to this for months.

If it was really threatening wouldn't you see the schools closed?

Go on with your life.

[schnood]

2200 people in the world have SARS. 2200 out of 5+ billion
Only a fraction of those 2200 have died.

It's a minor risk.

[Mevrouw]

Yes there is SARS in Toronto. There is also Tuberculosis in New York City and influenza in Seattle, Dallas, Detroit, Chicago and Miami.

It is MUCH easier to catch Influenza & a cold from a person in those cities than it would be to catch SARS in Toronto.

YOu would have to be in CLOSE contact with a person WHO HAD SARS for more than 5 minutes. That is, you can't catch it by walking by or even by being next to them in the ice arena UNLESS they were already sick.

I live in Toronto, teach in the school system, had lunch near that hospital last week, went to the theatre and church last week and I am fine.

The Prime Minister of Canada and the Premier of the Province of Ontario walked the downtown streets this week and had lunch in a Chinese restaurant.

Anyone who has even been near a SARS patient is in isolation/quarantine at home. They aren't out in the street. Anyone who is already sick is in a hospital in isolation.

In a city of over 3 million people, only 225 cases have been reported (and some of those are only "suspected") and over 80 of those people have been treated in hospital and released.

We are NOT wearing masks, we ARE going out to theatres, restaurants and in the subway system. And we are fine.

So don't panic, don't cancel and DO come and enjoy SOI & the other things that Toronto has to offer.

[newsdad]

I think it should be up to each person to do what they feel comfortable doing. We also have tickets to the show at the ACC (ice seats) and have decided that we're not comfortable coming to Toronto next weekend. I don't think it's fair to jump on people for making a decision that they feel is best for them...if others want to go to the show, that's their right as well. I'm sure everyone who goes will have a great time...but I have to agree with tigger that for my family, it's not something we are choosing to do. My husband has a heart condition, therefore the risk of catching SARS, however minor, is not worth it.

mrs. newsdad

[Lindsay]

I asked my mom (who works in an Oakville hospital) and she said most likely no. I agree it should be up to the people attending the show, i really can't see it being a health risk! like Mevrouw said tihey are being SO cautious that your chances of being exposed to SARS at this moment in time are so minimal!

[Suzanne]

I guess it depends on your health. If you're generally healthy and no big health concerns -- and that would be the situation I'm in, fortunately -- then going to CSOI is probably okay.

People with heart conditions, respiratory problems, weakened immune systems, etc. will probably want to avoid coming in to Toronto to be in a building with 19 000 other people.

Certainly those who are apprehensive shouldn't come b/c they wouldn't enjoy the show anyhow!

Fortunately there will be CSOI again next year and, since we don't have an Olympics in between, it will likely be a very similar cast next year.

[tollerfan]

originally stated by Mevrouw:...I live in Toronto, teach in the school system, had lunch near that hospital last week, went to the theatre and church last week and I am fine...In a city of over 3 million people, only 225 cases have been reported (and some of those are only "suspected") and over 80 of those people have been treated in hospital and released. ITA. I live in the city too. I have to be in and out of the downtown quite frequently and have certainly not been afraid to do my business. I even had to visit Toronto Western Hospital a week or so ago to pick up a prescription in the pharmacy there. I had to wash my hands, have my temperature taken, fill out a questionnaire, and put on a mask before I could go to the hospital pharmacy. All of these were precautions that most hospitals are taking right now. Not once did I feel threatened; I felt like a citizen doing my duty, and I was proud of myself. I agree that everyone should take the normal precautions. Wash your hands often, as you would do to avoid any other type of flu bug. SARS has a death rate of three to four percent, the same as that of other flus and pneumonias.

I read an article by a doctor in New York that said your chances are far greater of getting tuberculosis while walking on the street in New York than they are of getting SARS in Toronto. Having read that, should I be frightened of travelling to New York? Would New York enjoy having all the tourists that go to that great city cancel out because they might get TB? Hardly.

Of course, everyone has to make their own decisions. So I choose to go on with my life and enjoy the wonderful city I live in (one of the best cities in the world IMO) while taking the necessary precautions. I will be going to movies, to the threatre, and to other events or places that I enjoy.

For every example of a Lisa Marie Presley who chooses to cancel out of her scheduled concert, there is an Avril Lavigne or a Regis Philbin who choose (along with many others) to come to our wonderful city. And I am heartened by that. There is no doubt, tho', that the city is being hurt by convention cancellations. I feel sorriest for those that are feeling the financial strain, and those that have been laid off because of it. I can only hope that they are back to work soon.

[rack]

Reading these posts is like reading posts about going to New York City after September 11 or going to Worlds in Washington DC last month.

I suppose more and more cities are going to suffer as a result of different types of worries from now on.

[icy-innit]

A friend of mine lives in Toronto & she works in a hospital. She is worried of course. I never understand why people jump on other people when they worry. Pretty soon people won't be able to voice their opinion whatsover for fear of reprisals.
Myself, I wasn't planning on going to TO in the near furure & even less so now with this virus. Why run after problems if one can avoid them? People with health problems should be cautious & it's not being paranoid imo.
In the meanwhile, CSOI is coming to my town as well.8-)
If it hadn't, I would have gone to Ottawa or Quebec city ;)

[SKfan]

A new article from Toronto Star

http://torontostar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?GXHC_gx_session_id_=2f5b55ce92212743&pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1050746498337&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154

[pennskater]

For those that think the SARS fears are 'hysteria' etc, here's an excerpt from an article on MSNBC:

One of the key determinants is the unresolved question of exactly how the SARS virus spreads. While the primary mode is believed to be close personal contact, the virus did sweep rapidly through an apartment tower and hotel in Hong Kong in ways that remain unclear.
“There are enough of these outliers to tell us that we don’t know what the full potential is,” Fauci said. “There is something unusual and beyond the scope of face-to-face contact.”
During the weekend, the WHO said SARS appears to have been more severe in the Hong Kong apartment building outbreak than elsewhere and sickened more younger, otherwise healthy people. That raises fears the virus may have mutated into an even more dangerous form, the WHO said.
Another key unknown is whether the disease can be spread when people have no symptoms.
“If that’s the case, and there are thousands and thousands of people who have gotten infected and not gotten sick, then it amplifies greater the possibility of persistent human infection,” Fauci said.

-----

SO, it CAN be spread by someone sneezing, or by you touching something that person touched earlier in the day (as in the apartment building case). This is VERY contagious and people may not know they have the disease when they are spreading it. In fact, one of the first persons to spread the disease was a DOCTOR! Obviously, doctors are careful in treating patients, and washing up afterwards. So, if a DOCTOR spread the disease, it must be easy to spread.

I think it is wise to stay home for awhile unless necessary to travel (for business etc).

Please stop telling people they are being hysterical by listening to doctor's that know what they are saying (in staying home).

[jp1andOnly]

I believe you have a greater chance of contracting tuberculosis than you do SARS.

1. I have an autoimmune disease that puts me at risk. Am I going to stay home and worry. NO. Did my neurologist and doctors tell me to worry NO Are they concerned NO. They are more worried about me getting strep throat for the 5th time this year than SARS.

2. I'm a teacher. My school has a high (lets just say between 70-80%) asian/Indian, etc background. Many of the students travelled overseas (mostly to India) during the break. In fact, some get pulled out of school to travel. And everyone goes to the airport to see any relatives off.

3. I also teach ESL to Asian students. Most of them are from China or hong kong. They usually have just arrived in Canada.

Yes, I'm careful to wash my hands and I try to step back from those who are sick (I would do this anyhow regardless of SARS)

If you are that paranoid than do indeed stay home. We don't need paranoid peopel wandering around...it makes everyone else nervous.

[Suzanne]

Nothing like having a perfect stranger -- one who knows NOTHING about the details of your medical history! -- preach to you that you're paranoid!

:D

[pennskater]

Jp1andonly

I suspect you would also play Russian rulette because the chances of getting that bullet is only 1 in 6.

Yes, right now, very few people have died, but very few people had died of AIDS when it was first reported. The chances of getting the disease right now are very slim, but no one knows how many people have the disease, so the statistics are understated. No one knows what the chances of getting it is, so you can't accurately state it's less of a risk than anything else at this point.

Just because YOU haven't come in contact with anyone with the virus (that you know of at least) doesn't mean it can't happen to you.
With teaching students traveling from China, you have a great risk of one of them coming into contact with the virus.

With the apartment epidemic, the people infected DID NOT come in close contact with the person that spread the disease. And people that have SARS don't always appear sick at first.

So, I hope you are constantly washing your hands, and wearing a mask because if you aren't and someone with SARS is in the area, well then it's Russian rulette. Just like with AIDS, I prefer to take my precautions and travel as little as necessary.

I'm done with this thread.

[PAskate]

People - let's give each other some credit. We all face decisions in our lives and have to choose what choices we are willing to live with. While I might feel that I would be safe traveling, someone else with a different set of experiences, background, and personal beliefs might choose not to.

Let's all agree to disagree and respect each other choices. Now if you want to discuss why you would personally make a certain decision, that would be an appropriate discussion. Let's just lay off the discussion on why any other poster feels the way that they do. :evil:

Now - for the record. I would feel fine traveling to Toronto. However, I travel on business every single week of the year. There are always risks associated with travel to any location, so I would be comfortable making the necessary arrangements to travel to Toronto. That's my choice and what I'm willing to work with. I also spent the fall traveling to the DC suburbs every week during the sniper attacks doing business in the general area of many of the shootings. You just have to assess the risks that you're willing to take and what accomodations you are willing to make to continue doing what you usually do. Now ask me to travel to Iraq or Iran and the answer would be NO - that's not a risk that I'm willing to make.

Enough said! ;)

[VGL]

Well, things are being cancelled in the Toronto area. I'm a consultant in a direct sales company. We were supposed to have our annual regional convention in Toronto this coming weekend. Just this past weekend, they decided to relocate it.

[Honey]

The hockey game went off tonight in Toronto and it was packed!

I have a daughter-in-law and granddaughter in Toronto and they are
going about their work and school with no problems. They are being
careful and washing their hands frequently, etc. but none of their
friends and co-workers are wearing masks and staying home.

They have come up with the reason that SARS was spread in that
apartment building and it has something to do with the old fixtures
in bathrooms, vents, etc.

Anyway, I am looking forward to CSOI and really hope it won't be
cancelled.

Good luck everyone and enjoy life.

[icy-innit]

I don't know how it spreads but it was mentionned on the news yesterday that they were looking for someone who travelled the GO train last Monday the 18th & apparently gave this virus to other travellers. I thiink that people should be weary or cautious with sitting next to someone that sounds or looks sick. I would guess that it's pretty contagious if you can just sit next to someone & that person gives it to you. Perhaps if we knew more what we are dealing with we could take some kind of preventive medecine.
I doubt that they would cancel shows. I'm assuming that it's still not that big a threat yet. Hopefully it will stay this way & won't get any worse.

[Rachel]

SARS spreads much like a cold does--you have to come in contact with infectious material and internalize it. It's a lot easier than it sounds.

Let's say Person A has a cold and rides the train. Person A coughs into her hand, politely, as she waits to get on the train. She then uses that hand to grab a handrail as she climbs aboard.

Person B follows Person A onto the train and also grabs the handrail in the same general spot. Person B sits down and yawns mightily, covering his mouth politely with his hand. He yawns so hard his eyes water and he rubs them a bit.

Person B has now infected the mucous membranes in his mouth and eyes with a cold virus and in a few days will start to get that feeling, which he will probably blame on not wearing a raincoat or something similar.

It appears that SARS might require more contact than that, possibly more than one exposure or something, but at this point, they just don't know. But the fear is that if it does spread like a cold, it will spread like crazy and be impossible to control.

SARS also doesn't look all that bad in the beginning--it's rather like a general flu-ish sickness, with a fever and a headache. After 2-7 days, the person develops a dry, hacking cough and possibly breathing problems. Not everyone gets deathly sick. A lot of people wouldn't think of staying home just because of those symptoms. If it spreads easily, it's going to get around.

And last but not least, it's a virus, so it's going to be hard to prevent or cure it. But again, no one knows for sure how much it's going to spread and how much exposure is too much, so I wouldn't panic at this point.

I think the most important thing my kids learned in preschool was to cough and sneeze into the crooks of their elbows and never, ever into their hands. I wish everybody did that.

[jcspkbfan]

This morning, the WHO just issued a warning advising people to avoid all "non-essential" travel to the Toronto area. :( I know this will disappoint a lot of people planning to travel to Toronto for SOI, but hopefully people living in the city will still be able to enjoy the show!

[jriskind]

I find it iteresting that WHO and the CDC posted conflicting adivsaries. I watched a press conference with the Director of the CDC yesterday. She said they weren't advising people not to go to Toronto, just to take precautions while there like not going near hospitals or other places where SARS has spread and to wash your hands alot.

She also said that Health Canada has done a great job, and that the virus seems to be tapering off in Toronto and that they are containing it well.

So I find it odd that the WHO said not to go.....

[gandalf]

Originally posted by icy-innit
I don't know how it spreads but it was mentionned on the news yesterday that they were looking for someone who travelled the GO train last Monday the 18th & apparently gave this virus to other travellers.

This isn't true and is a perfect example of the media reporting things before they really know what they are talking about. There have been no cases, suspected or otherwise, linked to the nurse who took the GO train.

There has been some speculation that the WHO's advisary is political - apparently they're peeved that Toronto health officials didn't follow their earlier suggestion to screen every single person entering and leaving the city, something that really isn't feasible.

Sheesh, if people are this paranoid about SARS what do they do during flu season? As for those who have decided not to come to CSOI, I'm looking forward to upgrading my seat! :D

[bleu]

It seems like the SOI TORONTO was sold out.

[summertime]

Yes, Toronto CSOI was packed.

And there were no masks in sight.

The skaters didn't do the traditional handshakes though.

They did laps around the rink in a line waving to the crowd.

[summertime]

Todd did shake hands during STUDZ, but he was wearing gloves that were part of his costume.

[donnamarie]

Everyone should make their own decision and do what feels right to them.

I don't compare this to influenza, because young and healthy people have died from SARS who don't normally die from influenza. I think that's what has people alarmed.

I wouldn't go out of my way to go to Toronto or Hong Kong right now. My health isn't strong right now and I'd rather not take chances, no matter how small they might be.

Of course, soon it will probably spread all over the U.S., and it will be a moot point about Toronto. It seems difficult to contain viruses these days when people travel so much.

By the way, hoping that all people with symptoms will stay in quarantine is wishful thinking, because many people won't, for one reason or another.