Ice Dance - SBS Footwork - Twizzles

[A.H.Black]

I am just now watching my tapes from the Olympics; specifically the Ice Dance OD. Yes, I know I'm way behind. Anyway, I am trying to learn more about dance so I have some questions about the Side By Side footwork sequence, particularly the twizzles.

This is what I noticed.

Drobiazko and Vanagas - The did two sets of double twizzles, one in each direction.

Bourne and Kraatz - They did two sets of triple twizzles at the end of the footwork. They were the only couple to do triple twizzles although the twizzles were spotted rather than continuous. Their turns were in the same direction.

Fusar-Poli and Margaglio - They did two sets of double twizzles; the second one was less dynamic and sure than the first, but still in unison. Except for some adjustments, all their turns were in the same direction.

Lobachava and Averbukh - They did two sets of double twizzles. The second set did not end in exact unison. Again, except for some adjustments, their turns were in the same direction.

Anassina and Peizerat - They did several sets of single twizzles but only one set of double twizzles. However that set was done out of a lunge and in the opposite direction of the other twizzles.

So here are my questions.

Are triple twizzles significantly more difficult than doubles and does the difficulty change if the twizzles are spotted rather than continuous?

Are there couples this year that are doing triple twizzles.

Is it more difficult to do turns in each direction or to do triple twizzles? Or does it depend on the strengths and weaknesses of the skaters?

Any other comments on this element?

Note - Please stick to discussing the elements. I want to learn more about dance

[Isabelle]

Ok, I'm going to try to answer your questions:
Are triple twizzles significantly more difficult than doubles and does the difficulty change if the twizzles are spotted rather than continuous?
Triple twizzles are somewhat more difficult than doubles. I think whether the twizzle is spotted or not is just the preference of the skater. But if you are "checking" (meaning not continuous) the twizzle it is actually a double three-turn which is less difficult than a twizzle. It's kind of a lose-lose situation though because they apparently want you to travel on twizzles which makes them more double three-ish, but they also want continuous turning which generally means more on the spot. :roll:

Are there couples this year that are doing triple twizzles.
I THINK so but I haven't really been paying attention to that. If anyone is I think it's probably Shae-Lynn and Victor and maybe Marie-France and Patrice.

Is it more difficult to do turns in each direction or to do triple twizzles? Or does it depend on the strengths and weaknesses of the skaters?
I would say that it's generally more difficult to do turns in both directions, but it does somewhat depend on the strengths/weaknesses of the skaters.

Hope this helps! :)

[Aussie Willy]

As a skater, triple twizzles are definately more difficult than doubles. However I have enough trouble with just the twizzle from the Argentine Tango and that is only one twizzle. Also I find coming out of a double twizzle quite difficult to do so when you are doing a triple twizzle it is probably harder to stop the rotation. I suppose the secret is to practice. And Isabelle suggested, the twizzle should really be done on the spot, not travelling because then they become three turns. I read a report once on the 2001 Worlds which criticised most of the dancers for not doing proper twizzles because they travelled too much on them. I suppose you could think of them as a small spin.

So in answer to your questions - yes - and the timing for dance couple has to be spot on.

Also in reference to doing them in particular directions, I would consider a SBS sequence with twizzles going clockwise and then counterclockwise (or vice versa) would rate more difficult. It is too easy for skaters just to skate the way they feel more comfortable so you want to vary the which way they turn, it does show greater skill and makes it more interesting. When I am putting a step sequence together for my own programs I try to turn back they other way to give more variety and make the step sequence more interesting.

I hope that helps answer part of your questions.

[backspin]

It also is going to depend on what edge the twizzle begins on, & which direction the rotation is going. The Argentine twizzle is more difficult as you change the rotation going into it so the 1st turn is really a counter. Stepping into a twizzle w/ a forward inside 3-turn (like in the Ravensburger waltz) is much easier (it's the speed of that one that makes it hard--1 1/2 rotations w/ no beat!)

[A.H.Black]

Thanks for the information and explanations. Now I'm a little lost. Please explain a counter to me. I should know but I can't come up with a picture of it.

Then, can I ask a question about the dance straightline footwork sequence. During the olympics, Tracy Wilson mentioned that it was supposed to use a lot of crossrolls. To me Anissina and Peizerat used that element most effectively.

As for this year, is that sequence still supposed to use crossrolls? Is there another element that is supposed to be emphasized?

[Isabelle]

I don't think I'll be very good at explaining a counter, but I'll try! :)
It's a turn from inside to inside or outside to outside on one foot. You have to turn the way that feels uncomfortable if that makes any sense.

As for the diagonal footwork in the OD, I believe the "predominantly cross-rolls" rule only applied to last year. As far as I know there is no rule like that this year. It's actually a circular footwork sequence in the OD this year that you have to do, and it has to be completed in closed positions in the same direction as the rest of the dance.

[backspin]

It's the mirror of a rocker, if that helps at all. Changes direction (makes an "S" tracing on the ice) by turning away from the circle you're on, whereas a rocker changes direction by turning toward the circle you're on. Both maintain the same edge (for example, outside edge going in and coming out)

A three turn is to a bracket

as a rocker is to a counter.

Confused yet?? :lol:

[Isabelle]

A three turn is to a bracket
as a rocker is to a counter.

You could also say a three turn is to a rocker as a bracket is to a counter.
(because in a three turn and a rocker you turn the natural way, and in a bracket and counter you turn the way that feels weird...to me anyways :oops: )

Ah! If A.H.Black wasn't confused before, they probably are now, eh backspin? ;) :lol:
I'm almost confused and I'm someone who's explaining!! :??

[backspin]

hee hee. How about this:

a counter is a rocker turned inside out.
a bracket is a 3-turn turned inside out.

Helpful, yes?? :twisted: 8O

[Artemis]

Originally posted by Isabelle
As for the diagonal footwork in the OD, I believe the "predominantly cross-rolls" rule only applied to last year. As far as I know there is no rule like that this year.

I'm assuming that that's because of the set rhythms last year were "predominantly cross-rolls" were part of the style of the dance, as opposed to this year's rhythms.

Originally posted by Isabelle
It's actually a circular footwork sequence in the OD this year that you have to do, and it has to be completed in closed positions in the same direction as the rest of the dance.

Isn't it 2 footwork sequences? One straight and one circular? I coulda sworn that's what the rule was last year too.

[Ellyn]

Yes, the required elements for this year's OD are two dance lifts, one dance spin, a circular step sequence in dance holds, and a mid-line side-by-side sequence including at least one series of synchronized twizzles.

[Aussie Willy]

Backspin & Isabelle - yep I am confused too but then counters and rockers always confuse me! However I have a book beside me (Competitive Figure Skating: a parent's guide by Robert S Ogilvie) that has diagrams of the various turns. Will try and see how this goes.

A bracket is basically this shape - { - so like a bracket in punctuation it is the same shape on the ice. So if you were to do a RFO, you would finish on a RBI after the turn.

Counters and rockers will start and finish on the same edge eg. if it starts on a RFO it will finish on a RBO after the turn. However the rocker turns the same way as FO3 and a counter turns the same way as a FI3.

Now I have probably added more confusion. I suggest get a book on figure skating which has the various diagrams of the turns or check the dance patterns at this website. http://www.ice-dance.com/technical/compulsories/