Skate Canada joins the fight against secret judging

[Louis]

Not as extreme as either the USFSA or JFSF statements, but still! Seems like people are turning on Speedy left and right. :twisted:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030314/wl_canada_nm/canada_figureskating_judging_col_1

And, for those who haven't read them, here is the JFSF's letter of protest:

http://www.skatingjapan.or.jp/cgi-local/news/usrNewsView.cgi?10124

And the USFSA Executive Committee's recommendations.

http://www.usfsa.org/news/2002-03/strategy.htm

THANK YOU to Phyllis Howard, Pam Coburn, and the Council of the Japan Skating Federation for having the guts to stand up for what nearly all the athletes, coaches, fans, and even judges in the sport want!

[Arsenette]

I find it hypocritically ironic that Canada would get involved in protesting the "project" they invented! :lol: Sorry.. couldn't help myself..

So.. How about Australia and China?? Any guesses? :?:

[Lee]

The *project* SC 'invented' was the anonymous system. That system was put into place when the folks presenting the US proposal did such a wonderful job that they left the entire Congress dazed and confused. The Canadian proposal was supported by other member feds just to get something in place. Don't blame it just on Canada...it was only ever designed to be an 'interim' system until something more effective could be designed. The rest of the Congress didn't have to accept it.

[Arsenette]

My argument (since I speak for no one ;) ) is that it was supposed to be "a project" whatever it was.. heck.. it could have been pulling a name out of a hat.. the problem is that Speedy wrote it in as a rule and we can't get rid of it. I'm not blaming Canada for coming up with something spectacularly horrendous.. we haven't seen Dore's wonderful point system yet.. I don't blame Canada for that monstrocity (unless they take ownership of course :lol: ).. The problem is that they even fail to see the problem - they only thing that Canada is suggesting so far is that the names be put on the monitors but it doesn't address the inherent problems of random selecting marks based on nothing but chance!

[Lee]

Pulling the judges names out of a hat to do the event in the first place is nothing more than random chance. The only difference with the current system is that there are more of them actually writing down a mark. Random chance is what determines the 4 different panels for the dance event. How is that any different?

[Arsenette]

Originally posted by Lee
Pulling the judges names out of a hat

Sorry.. figure of speech.. what I meant is that they tried the system.. it didn't work... now let's try something else.. the problem now lies that the ISU broke the rules by writing into law a system that was never intented to be permanent.

Edited to add that the system in place takes the burden off proof away from the judges - meaning that we can't figure out where it went wrong and sanction the judge. Right now the scoring takes precedent over everything even the skaters!

[Rae]

Arsenette - I'm with you re your comments. And Lee, I understand the clarification you were putting forward.

As far as the current turn of events since the Japanese association came forward using the ISU Constitution as their preferred armoury, for want of a better word - I heartily applaud them. My stance on the gradual corruption of the Constitution has been said here before. Trying to better the sport through an improved consitution is absolutely the way to go. We Aussies have had much to do with that document and the Japanese have found exactly the right rules and regulations that have not been adhered to. In my opinion an improved/revamped constitution would also have figure and speed separated ASAP. Their letter takes Cinquanta to the brick wall at 100kmph with no brakes.

I don't see much relevance in the Canadian suggestions out today over this random judging system. It's good that Canada are coming forward and saying something, but it's bandaid type stuff. Could or could not be useful in the very short term. That the entire system was changed in the first place,unconstitutionally is now taking on spin doctor proportions to fix it. However, they're a powerful skating nation and their point of view will exert influence.

It looks like so many knees may start jerking we'll end up with a real good 'ol "Knees up Mother Brown" dance around the fire.

USA and Canada should have a summit , get some of their problems sorted out and find some common goals.

[ontherock]

Remember that the Canadian solution was the idea of a Canadian judge who holds a PhD in mathematics and was teaching at a very reputible Canadian University... I would suggest that if her belief was that this new system was more fair that she was probably right, theoretically.

[Louis]

Originally posted by ontherock
Remember that the Canadian solution was the idea of a Canadian judge who holds a PhD in mathematics and was teaching at a very reputible Canadian University... I would suggest that if her belief was that this new system was more fair that she was probably right, theoretically.

Except that all of the independent Ph.D.'s in mathematics-related fields -- Sandra Loosemore, George Rossano, Kathy Godfrey, and the people who wrote the article about the judging system in the Chronicle of Higher Education -- all disagreed with said judge. I don't have a Ph.D. in math, but I have completed graduate-level statistics courses, and my opinion is that said judge was full of b.s. and most likely just towing the party line.

[ontherock]

Louis

I forgot to add that since she submitted her proposal she has left her post at the University and moved to Ottawa where she has become an employee of Skate Canada... (no party line there):roll:

[loveskating]

I'd like to understand specifically what you want.

In the USFSA statement, it seemed to me that the ONLY change they want from the old system is that judges who are found to be "corrupt" are banned for life, not just suspended.

Is this correct?

Personally, I really like the secondary experts that certify the element...I'm sick to death of people claiming they didn't see their countrymen omit or single etc. a required element!

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by Lee
The *project* SC 'invented' was the anonymous system. That system was put into place when the folks presenting the US proposal did such a wonderful job that they left the entire Congress dazed and confused. The Canadian proposal was supported by other member feds just to get something in place. Don't blame it just on Canada...it was only ever designed to be an 'interim' system until something more effective could be designed. The rest of the Congress didn't have to accept it.
I don't understand the correlation being drawn that implies an idea & proposal developed by SC is related to a bad USFSA presentation. What does a less than stellar presentation or proposal by the USFSA have to do with the original concept & proposal of SC? It seems to me they are two completely separate issues & the bad idea of either (if so thought) can stand alone.