Most underappreciated skaters [Archive]

gardana

03-12-2003, 09:10 PM

This sort of goes along with the "who waz robbed" post, except it encompasses a skaters enitre career! Anyway skaters can be underappreciated by judges(always a favorite), fans, or TV commentators.

Here is my list:

Alexei Urmanov: yes he had horendous fashion taste, but he also had good artistry, and lets not forget he also had the jumps. Didn't Alexei have a quad?

Dmitriev(Mishkutenok and Kazakova): People aknowledge their flexibility and passion. But what I think gets underappreciated is their skating skills(edges, lines, etc). While G&G might of had the best basic skating skills. M/D and K/D were/are heads and shoulders above most every other pair.

And more...
:D

Lark

03-12-2003, 09:25 PM

I am gonna say Sarah Hughes.
She is Americas Olympic Champion and people talk about her like she is dirt.
At least give her another 4 years or so before you bury her.

dbny

03-12-2003, 09:46 PM

Kazakova & Dmitriev's Olympic SP was the best I have ever seen. Perfectly choreographed to the music, a classic along with Yagudin's "Winter".

gardana

03-12-2003, 09:53 PM

I think in general, lines and edges, stroking etc are underappreciated. Don't get me wrong, I love jumps and spins and lifts(and quite frankly just watching someone do crossovers would get boring after 30 seconds). But I think people(in general) don't appreciate the skill and difficulty it takes to do those skills well. Some other skaters besides, G&G, M&D and K&D whom I think have great basic skills are Alexander Abt and B&S.

roogu

03-13-2003, 12:28 AM

Originally posted by dbny
Kazakova & Dmitriev's Olympic SP was the best I have ever seen. Perfectly choreographed to the music, a classic along with Yagudin's "Winter".

Even with that horrid death spiral? heheheh. But choreograph yes, it was a very strong program.

icenut84

03-13-2003, 08:26 AM

ITA with Alexei Urmanov.

JDC1

03-13-2003, 08:33 AM

Todd Eldredge for one, I know amongst skating fans he's appreciated but the casual fans have no idea how he is or how gorgeous his skating is.

Isabelle

03-13-2003, 08:41 AM

Marie-France Dubreuil and Patrice Lauzon -- I think very few people (including judges unfortunately) understand the complexity of their programs, or appreciate the passion which they show every single time.

CMc

03-13-2003, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by Lark
I am gonna say Sarah Hughes.
She is Americas Olympic Champion and people talk about her like she is dirt.
At least give her another 4 years or so before you bury her.

Can I get an "AMEN"??? :bow:

ITA, Lark!
Even though she does get more support since the Olympics, there are still some that say she flutzed, cheated, etc. ad nauseum! Enough!

BTW, I hope she's never buried, even after 4 years! ;)

Lark

03-13-2003, 09:09 AM

AMEN!!! :P

Is Sarah the only Olympic Champion in history that obviously won the LP fair and square so people dog her out because of the placements the *JUDGES* gave her in the SP???
No one can say with 100% honesty that anyone but Sarah rightfully won the LP, so they rag that her competitors were placed wrong in the SP.
Totally rediculous and silly.

Alexeiskate

03-13-2003, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by CMc
Can I get an "AMEN"??? :bow:

ITA, Lark!
Even though she does get more support since the Olympics, there are still some that say she flutzed, cheated, etc. ad nauseum! Enough!

So now that Sarah has an Olympic god medal, her flutzes are now suddenly lutzes? Yes, Sarah steamrolled the competitions in SLC's freestyle and deserved the gold and everything that went with it. But this is a new competitive year and everyone is starting from a fresh slate, more or less. I'm sure Sarah's lack of training time is a contributing factor this year in her performances thus far but at Nationals her flutzes were too obvious and so was the incomplete rotation on the 3flip. If the judges are judging a performance on a given day then they cannot ignore those obvious flaws, olympic gold medal or not.

CMc

03-13-2003, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by Alexeiskate
So now that Sarah has an Olympic god medal, her flutzes are now suddenly lutzes? Yes, Sarah steamrolled the competitions in SLC's freestyle and deserved the gold and everything that went with it. But this is a new competitive year and everyone is starting from a fresh slate, more or less. I'm sure Sarah's lack of training time is a contributing factor this year in her performances thus far but at Nationals her flutzes were too obvious and so was the incomplete rotation on the 3flip. If the judges are judging a performance on a given day then they cannot ignore those obvious flaws, olympic gold medal or not.

Well we were talking about the Olympic LP. Sorry you misunderstood. :frus:
And I hope your reference to "god medals" is just a typo.

Lark

03-13-2003, 06:17 PM

I think there are only a handfull of female skaters who do not flutz.
No skater is perfect.
Sarah flutzes.
Sasha has nerve issues.
Liashenko telegraphs and is inconsistant.
Michelle is "slow".
Irina has litle presentation.

Are we supposed to judge someone on one fault or as an overall skater? I would hate to have to throw so many fantastic skaters off the bridge due to not being perfect.

CMc

03-13-2003, 07:24 PM

Again, you hit the nail on the head, Lark! Thanks so much! ;)

Lark

03-13-2003, 07:48 PM

We gots to watch our girls back, C! :)

Even Brian Boitano was considered "robotic" when he was young. Now he is considered maybe the greatest American Mens skater ever?

Rachel

03-14-2003, 02:35 AM

Brian Boitano WAS robotic when he was young. He was quite painful to watch, in fact. Great jumps, but everything else was :P . And it was during his robotic stage that he skated an exhibition to Freakazoid, which is still one of the most memorable programs from the COI (then TOC) tour for me. It's not a good memory, but it's definitely something I've never forgotten.

Sandra Bezic was to him as Lori Nichols was to Michelle Kwan and maybe then some. She decided that he was a big guy, so he ought to do a big skating. Out with the arm-waving and fussy movements, in with the sweeping and majestic. Voila!

He's one of the ones who taught me that when watching young skaters, look for the ones with good, solid technique over the ones who have style and presence. The technicians have a better chance of developing good style than the artists do of developing good technique.

kwanette

03-14-2003, 06:25 AM

Rachel, I totally agree with your post re: Brian Boitano. I felt the same way about him initially.

I can't imagine anyone not thinking Sarah deserved first in the Olympic lp, but I guess 4 judges did.

RobinA

03-14-2003, 07:22 AM

I can still remember Dick slamming Boitano for being all technique, no style. In fact, I can remember a comment to the effect that if this "boy" doesn't get himself some style soon he is not going to have any success. He was right at the time, but Brian and his team got to work and put together some choreography that used Boitano's strong points and didn't require him to use style he didn't have. He started doing soldier themes, which made use of what he was good at at the time. Also that SP in 88 where he focused on the old-fashioned skating moves we never saw anymore. Brilliant, and still one of my favorite SPs of all time.

Just goes to show you can capitalize on a skater's strengths AND weaknesses with a little creativity.

BABYSKATES

03-14-2003, 12:52 PM

Sarah Hughes is underappreciated? Hardly. After her fabulous freeskate in SLC, Sarah got top billing in COI over Michelle Kwan who has many National and World titles. Sarah appeared on every talk show and was interviewed by Barbara Walters. She was nominated and made it to the finals of the Sullivan awards. She was a presenter on the Grammy Awards! She had her own TV special! Peggy Flemming is practically Sarah's publicist. Sarah may be highly criticized, but she is not underappreciated.

Lark

03-14-2003, 06:17 PM

Sarah IS underappreciated by a lot of skating "fans".
Sure, Babs Walter and the general public like her because she is a very generous, hard working, intelligent, compassionate young lady.
Sarah poses no "threat" to the general public.

Rachel

03-14-2003, 07:37 PM

Oh, for heaven's sake.

Sometimes people like the way one skater skates and dislike the way another does. That may or may not be related to skating rivalry.

When you get to the top, you get picked apart. Name one skater who was medaled EVER and managed to get by without criticism. Some do get hit more than others, but that doesn't mean the criticism is undeserved, or inspired solely or even partially by some perceived threat to another skater.

Lark

03-14-2003, 07:46 PM

No one skater, to my knowledge, has been ripped apart so much as Sarah for "perceived" weaknesses in their skating.
People are so angry at this "upstart" defeating all the faves that they blow all her faults well out of proportion.
If Sarahs skating technique was as bad as several people try to paint it, she would not be able to medal at Junior Worlds, let alone win the Olympics. Therefore, she is underappreciated.

adrianchew

03-14-2003, 09:26 PM

Actually, not that many people would argue that Sarah's win at SLC was undeserved... most skating fans accept the results, and recognize that on a night when others fell, Sarah did shine in the freeskate - that is definitely her best and brightest moment, and no one can and should take that away from her.

But she has weaknesses in her technique - every skater does... Sasha, Irina, Michelle, etc... they all can improve in some area or another! Part of the problem with Sarah taking so much flak for her areas of weaknesses is that its been very well discussed and clearly known - yet its never been addressed or an attempt made to correct it. She still is a powerful skater though.

As far as most underappreciated skaters - I'd have to say a lot of the unseen/unheard "no names" in the sport... most of them have spent a greater part of their life in ice rinks, and worked hard - not everyone has the talent to be Sarah or Sasha, but they may have personal victories that still count for something to them.

Rachel

03-14-2003, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by Lark
No one skater, to my knowledge, has been ripped apart so much as Sarah for "perceived" weaknesses in their skating.

Perception, as they say, is everything. Your perception is that Sarah has been ripped apart more than any skater, which tells me that you either skip a lot of threads or haven't been on internet skating forums for long.

Sorry, but while Sarah gets ripped on, so does everyone else. Maybe you haven't heard, but Michelle Kwan is washed up and does only easy elements, Sasha Cohen has bad edges to match her bad attitude, Irina Slutskaya skates "ugly" and is a whiner, Angela Nikodinov is a headcase who can't jump when the pressure is on, Maria Butyrskaya is stiff and egotistical, Elena Sokolova has the worst stroking in international skating, blahblahblah.

Whether it's true or not or justified or not depends a lot on your perception and how well it does or does not match the majority. Michelle fans thinks Michelle has it the worst; Sarah fans think Sarah has it the worst; Sasha fans think Sasha has it the worst., etc., etc., etc.

bcskater

03-15-2003, 12:01 AM

Originally posted by Rachel
Sorry, but while Sarah gets ripped on, so does everyone else. Maybe you haven't heard, but Michelle Kwan is washed up and does only easy elements, Sasha Cohen has bad edges to match her bad attitude, Irina Slutskaya skates "ugly" and is a whiner, Angela Nikodinov is a headcase who can't jump when the pressure is on, Maria Butyrskaya is stiff and egotistical, Elena Sokolova has the worst stroking in international skating, blahblahblah.

Whether it's true or not or justified or not depends a lot on your perception and how well it does or does not match the majority. Michelle fans thinks Michelle has it the worst; Sarah fans think Sarah has it the worst; Sasha fans think Sasha has it the worst., etc., etc., etc.
LOL :roll: :D :lol: I TOTALLY AGREE!

Meredith

03-15-2003, 06:24 AM

Originally posted by adrianchew
As far as most underappreciated skaters - I'd have to say a lot of the unseen/unheard "no names" in the sport... most of them have spent a greater part of their life in ice rinks, and worked hard - not everyone has the talent to be Sarah or Sasha, but they may have personal victories that still count for something to them.

Good point. No, GREAT point! How often on this or any other board do we discuss the skaters who regularly come in 4th and beyond? It is my perception ;) the only thing keeping some of them from the national and world podiums is mastery of a jump or two. Everything else is rock solid and beautiful.

Joa

03-19-2003, 04:42 PM

I will say that the most underappreciated "event" for a skater was the '98 Olympics at Nagano Japan when Tara Lip. won the gold over Michelle. I thought Michelle should have won and it was a split dicission. Michelle skated beautifully. I think the judges were taken by a 3/3 by Tara. BUT, as far as artistry and musicality went Tara had none and Michelle, as always, had it all! :D

03-20-2003, 08:10 AM

98 Nagano---personally, I thought it was more than the 3-3 for Tara...the expression of sheer innocent joy as she skated her programs was really hard to miss....maybe she wasn't the most "artistic" but her love and joy in skating really shone through...and sometimes, there is a part of me that really wants to see that rewarded...

It was really nice to see the spirit of the Olympics so clearly on her face....and now that we know about her hip problems, all the more bittersweet...

I thought Michelle looked scared, cautious, and held back...but maybe thats just me....

;) :)

Ivan W

03-20-2003, 08:54 AM

Hey! What about P&S (ice dancing)? They came up with one of the best programs that I have ever seen in 1998 and what do they get? Only sixth place in the Worlds. At least they have their 5 US titles as well as some World Pro titles to go with it.

But still, every one in the skating community (well almost everyone) agrees that they should have been treated better.

If that is not underappreciated, I don't know what is.

loveskating

03-21-2003, 11:27 AM

I'd say Alexei Urmanov is the most underappreciated....a really great skater in every way with his own style.

Also, Alexander Abt and Takeshi Honda are underappreciated, because they are sooooo great but haven't won the medals due to inconsistency on the jumps mostly.

Given all the bashing of Maria Butereskaya, I don't think people realize how good she really was...

I don't think Todd is underrated at all...

As for people ragging on Sarah, I don't think that is most people...seems to me that there some fans who rag on everyone but their favorite, put every other skater under a microscope, bash them on and off the ice, and Sarah is no exception.

The rest of us just rag on this or that element...like me, I hate Sarah's bent leg on her spiral, but I only mention it when someone says her spiral is "the best"... and I think her spirals are about 4th or 5th in the world, not the best, but up there, better than most. Its no different than saying Kristi had trouble with the salchow...but if you want to take it that way, no one can stop you. Then again, some believe that winning a gold medal at the Olympics means you are "the best" at everything, and I don't agree with that. Oxsana pumped on some of her strokes; Tara had small jumps; Kristi splatted on her salchow, if I recall...I love all of them, just stating my sense of the facts.

Many elite skaters voiced their concerns about the marks in the SP at SLC, Jayne Torvil among them. She stated, and I agree, that Irina should have been first in the SP at SLC, and anyone who reviews the tapes can judge for themselves.