..........wuz robbed!!!! (Tell me your favourite upsets)

[essence_of_soy]

1. Underhill & Martini, 1983 Worlds (lost to Valova / Vassiliev, Baess / Thierbach)
2. Nancy Kerrigan, 1994 Olympic Games (lost to Oksana Baiul)
3. Shen & Zhao, 1999 Worlds (lost to Bereznaja / Sikharulidze)
4. Angela Nikodinov (lost to Kwan and Hughes, 2001 US Nationals)
5. Paul Wylie (lost to Brian Boitano, 1988 US Nationals)

I guess my biggest gripe is that these performances were spine-chilling, and the winners, kind of clinical and tight. Ah, the joy of politics.

I'll get back in my box now

[Marco]

Kerrigan in 94 ofcourse! No one can convince me that she didn't deserve to win that night. IMO Oksana didn't even deserve 2nd place but 3rd or even 4th behind Lulu and Yuka as well.

Another was last year's GPF...I can live with both Michelle or Sarah winning the free, but Irina? no way

[Germanice]

- Lulu and Ilia at '96 Worlds.
- Irina at '02 Olympics.
- Sasha Abt at '02 Euros and Worlds.

Anke

[icenut84]

Just for fun: ;)

*Irina Slutskaya 02 Olympics SP (beaten by Kwan)
*Todd Eldredge 01 Worlds LP (beaten by Yagudin to the silver)
*Alexander Abt 02 Europeans LP (beaten by Yagudin)
*Torvill & Dean 94 Olympics FD (beaten by Grishuk & Platov and Usova & Zhulin)
*Shen & Zhao 99 Worlds LP (beaten by Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze)
*Mishkutenok & Dmitriev 94 Olympics LP (beaten by Gordeeva & Grinkov)
*Midori Ito 88 Olympics LP (should have been higher)

I might post again if I remember any others

[Isabelle]

- Jamie Salé & David Pelletier 2002 Olympics
- Shae-Lynn Bourne & Victor Kraatz 1998 Olympics
- Xue Shen & Hongbo Zhao 1999 Worlds
- Jennifer Robinson Skate Canada 2002 (should've been 3rd)
- Marie-France Dubreuil & Patrice Lauzon practically every competition they've been in since 2000 :frus: (not that they nessicarily should've been 1st, but....)
:)

[Oreo]

Petrenko over Wylie in the 92 Olympics and Anett Poetzche over Linda Fratianne in the 80 Olympics

[miki_tan2]

Yukari NAKANO 2002 Skate America.

[fsfan]

Ravi Walia - 1995 Canadian Nationals (in Halifax)... He was beaten by Sebastien Britten and in no way deserved to lose to Britten after his disastrous program...

[Lark]

The only big one I can think of would be Nancy losing to Oksana at the 1994 Games.
I was peeved that Sarah nearly lost the SLC Gold to Irina. Sarah should have had all 9 judges IF judged fairly.
There was that GP competition that Maria lost to Irina by one judge a year or so ago. Nations Cup? Totally unfair.
I guess there is noting I disagree with too much.
OH, S&P being screwed originally at SLC. There should never be given a second Gold in skating, and there should not have been if judged fairly.

[Brettsmommy]

199? Olympics when Elvis lost the gold medal to Alexi Urmanov
I think it might have 1992, but I'm not sure.

[catija]

great topic :)

greatest upset for me...
- 94 olympics ladies...w/ all that 'hype' over kerrigan and then she got beaten by amazing oxana....
- 94 olympics dance: TOP 3! WOW....
- 96 worlds ladies: lu chen in 2nd..i thought mk and lulu were just wonderful..but i would have given the edge to lu
- 98 olympics dance b&k and all their worlds after that....
-02 olympics pairs (damn scandal)
-01? grand prix series in kitchener ont. i was there....and irina SHOULDNT have been first...my gawd....the judges were blind! it was either mk or sarah! irina should have been 3rd that night...sorry irina fans!
-02 olympics ladies....nice upset totally...:) i think our next olympics ladies winner will be another 'cinderella' type girl....i'm goin to guess jen kirk for now.

[Spinner]

Originally posted by Brettsmommy
199? Olympics when Elvis lost the gold medal to Alexi Urmanov
I think it might have 1992, but I'm not sure.
It was '94. That's actually more of an even-split debate than I thought. I think Elvis had it, but I can still see Urmanov's qualities as well. One thing that's nice about the result...the judges did NOT go with 'name value' and 'hold anyone up'. They judged how the skates went that night. Urmanov's only big credit before that event was a bronze medal at '93 worlds. He may have placed at Euro's, and I'm sure someone will help me with that one. ;)

[Mistyeyed]

Okay but this thread asked for this: Tara taking, being handed, whatever the Gold over Michelle. I really hate that moment in history. I really, really, really, wanted Michelle to win and I was so let down and she didn't fall are anything. She skated wonderful and any other time or place she would have won. So anyhow, I will stop there and say that is my upset that I remember of skating most. I also thought Nancy should have won over B., but I was much more upset over Tara and Kwan, I guess because I had followed Michelle since the T/N fiasco and I just couldn't believe my eyes when that happened. 'Nuff said!

[catija]

OMGGGGGGGGGG YESSSS THAT WAS A BIG UPSET...which i forgot to mention lol

i was sooo upset as i wanted mk to win too. i dindt mind tara...but her winning reaction was a little irritating...jumping up and down...

[liljimeo]

Yuka over Surya at the 94 Worlds. So much drama.

[Aussie Willy]

Okay my two cents:

94 Olympics - Gotta go with the Nancy over Oksana - Nancy just skated her pants off and outclassed Oksana. As boring as Nancy is she really was the best skater of the night.
94 Olympics - Elvis over Urmanov
92 Olympics - agree about Wylie over Petrenko - I think Petrenko only got the gold with that 3axel/3toe combination - otherwise did nothing. Wylie was just totally dynamic, even with the small errors
98 Olympics - Michelle over Tara - Michelle was so beautiful - Tara was just annoying and was totally boring
88 Olympics - Ito should have least been placed first in the LP and then Manley second and Witt 3rd. Don't know what the result would have been but it would have been interesting.
94 Olympics - M&D over G&G - as much as I loved G&G and think they are the best ever pairs skaters, I can't help but think M&D had a flawless performance which was passionate and very artistic. G&G did make mistakes. I think it must have been tough for the judges.

[CMc]

ITA about Nancy in '94.

Michelle over Sarah at 2000 and 2001 SA--2 years in a row. Of course, it's spilt milk by now, but it was tough when it happened.

[loveskating]

The only time I was truly upset that I still uphold was the marks for the SPs at SLC ladies...I will NEVER comprehend those marks...

All others, even that one between Yags and Abt, a GP event, can't recall, were very, very close, and I don't second guess the judges in very close competitions.

Other times, when I was initially upset, with more understanding of the rules, I came to understand the judges' marks. There are so many things that are hard to see, like a blade touching down on a flying sit spin, for instance...and there are still so many rules I don't know, like that one.

I also try to understand things like quality and difficulty vs. a perfectly clean skate (which applies to G&G and M&D LPs at 94 Olympics, IMHO). Skating clean at a considerably lower level of quality and difficulty ought not to be instantly rewarded, IMHO.

There is a huge difference between being disappointed and having a rational, consistent, rules based explanation...

[icenut84]

Another one I remembered - I thought Ina & Zimmerman should have been 4th in the LP at SLC, not 5th.

[XPEG]

2002 Grand Prix Final - should have been Michelle over Irina, big time.

[SShaste]

Okay here's my main two.

1994 Olympics - Elvis was totally robbed of the gold medal. Nothing against Urmanov but that was Elvis' night.

199? - Shae and Vic, pick a year or event, there were so many times.

[Samskate]

Definitely Nancy should have won over Oksana. I was So upset! That's probably the worst one I can think of now. Actually, now that I think more about it, Wylie should have won over Petrenko too!

[Aussie Willy]

Originally posted by loveskating
I also try to understand things like quality and difficulty vs. a perfectly clean skate (which applies to G&G and M&D LPs at 94 Olympics, IMHO). Skating clean at a considerably lower level of quality and difficulty ought not to be instantly rewarded, IMHO.

There is a huge difference between being disappointed and having a rational, consistent, rules based explanation...

I understand what you are saying, but in this case, M&D did have a technically more difficult program than G&G. They did SBS triple toes whereas G&G only had up to SBS 2axels, and they did two clean throw triples whereas G&G did a throw double axel. G&G did make mistakes, M&D made no mistakes whatsoever. So I disagree that M&D's program was less difficult. However G&G had a finer quality of general skating over M&D and that might have been what gave them the gold.

[BigB0882]

I can understand that some feel that LuLu should have won 1996 Worlds, but to say she was robbed seems a little, well, hysterical to me. When two skaters skate as flawlessly as Michelle and LuLu did, one must win and one must come in a close 2nd. However, the one who loses surely wasn't robbed, not when it was that close. I thought someone was robbed only when there was a clear case for them winning and only them. There was definitely a case for LuLu winning in 1996 but there was also just as good of a case for Kwan to win.

[Spinner]

Brian, thanks for sharing that. I've never thought of it that way! A 'robbing' is when there is significant arguement that one skater clearly outperformed the other who placed higher. In '96 Lulu and MK were pretty much equal in tech. and pres., so it's just a matter of preference in that case. Good points!

[adrianchew]

Close calls actually seem to enhance the feeling of "wuz robbed" somewhat possibly, to some people. In some sense, both were almost equals, and you can justify giving the medal to either skater... and its impossible to award them both - it seems to me that one party might feel somewhat robbed.

[irene2020]

Close calls actually seem to enhance the feeling of "wuz robbed" somewhat possibly, to some people

If it was a close call, it is not robbed. For example, the battle of the brians at 88 Olympics was a very very close call. 4 gave higher marks to boitano. 4 gave higher marks to orser. 1 gave them the same mark. But back then, the split goes for technical instead of artistry -> so, boitano won. Had the rules gone for artistry as they are nowadays, orser would have own. Now, this is a close call. But I seldom hear people say that orser was robbed. Fans realize that it could have gone either way - it went to Boitano - fine.

I think people have a stronger "wuz robbed" feeling when a skater is clearly above the winner.

Skating clean at a considerably lower level of quality and difficulty ought not to be instantly rewarded, IMHO.

I agree. That's why I think David and Sale being awarded the Olympic gold was very unfair to B&S.

Others:

96 Lulu was robbed. (michelle won.)

02 skate america, sarah was robbed. (michelle won.)

94 olympic, elvis was robbed. (urmonov won.)

02 world, fiume was robbed. (michelle took silver.)

B&K were robbed so many times, including at 02 Olympics. (They should have won the bronze.)

Awarakwa was robbed so many times.

many more ....

[Marco]

If it was a close call, it is not robbed.

So Michelle vs Lulu in 96 wasn't close enough for you?

Fumie clearly over Michelle at last Worlds? That's a first!

[adrianchew]

Originally posted by irene2020

But I seldom hear people say that orser was robbed. Fans realize that it could have gone either way - it went to Boitano - fine.

8O Have you seen the battle of the Brian discussions of past years? This has been debated before quite a bit.

I understand the reasons why that to some folks, Lulu was clearly a class above Michelle for 1996.

I disagree with Fumie being clearly a class above Michelle for 2002 though.

[BigB0882]

Irene, since you agree with me that a skater is only robbed when there is no argument to their placing, then can you explain how the first one in your list in LuLu from 1996 Worlds.

I would be interested to hear how she was robbed? The 1996 Worlds I remember had both Michelle and LuLu skating flawless programs with each receiving 6.0's for presentation.

[Kruss]

Originally posted by essence_of_soy
Paul Wylie (lost to Brian Boitano, 1988 US Nationals)

I guess my biggest gripe is that these performances were spine-chilling, and the winners, kind of clinical and tight. Ah, the joy of politics.

I'll get back in my box now

I totally, totally agree. Some, including Paul, felt that he should have won Nationals in 1990, but I finally saw a tape from 1988 and think that should have been Paul's gold medal. He and Brian made equal mistakes as I recall, and yet Brian (whom I love, by the way) received tons of 5.9's while Paul was slammed in the judge's scores.

Someone wanted Brian to go to the 88 Olys as the National Champion, and he did.

Someone wanted Paul to never win Nationals, and he didn't. I would think even with his track record of poor showings in competition that he should have won at least once, either 1988 or 1990.

[gatorboy]

#1 for me: Definitely Nancy losjng '94. I've watched it numerous times, and that is one result I cannot justify. I've tried to look past Oksana's horrendous 80's hair and ugly pink costume. Even still, it was a sloppy skate with 2foot landings, no 3-3's. Nancy skated her best ever and looked like a regal champion that night. Everything she landed was so clean (save the last 2 axel, but still complete). While I think Oksana had more natural talent, that free program didnt showcase it. Wasn't it a 5-4 split? In light of recent Olympic scandals, it makes you go hmmmm.


#2 for me is also 94, G&G over M&D. I don't care how "fine" a team G&G were. M&D were more pasisonate, more difficult, and clean. period. M&D weren't just some 2nd rate skaters, they were defending Olympic champs! Imagine if I said to you that a 2 triple Kwan beat a 4 triple Irina or a 4 triple Sasha, even though Kwan made errors (singled a jump, scratchy landings, etc) - and then I justified it by saying that Kwan has finer qualities. Just think about that. Again, I understand there is a heck of a lot more to pairs than jumps and throws, but let's not treat M&D like their other elements were chop liver. Sigh.

#3 for me is Tara over Michelle. Tara's fast-rotating tiny jumps/difficulty was not enough in my mind to overcome Michelle's style and "finer" qualities (using the G&G excuse I just argued against, lol). In this case, both skaters landed 7 triples. Many people forget this was a split panel, 6-3. From the way the media & commentators talk today, you'd think Michelle fell in 98 instead of having a clean program.

[ChristianeDK]

Olympics 2002 - ladies. Still annoys me. Should have been Slutskaya-Kwan-Hughes. :)

[winter]

SLC Olympics 2002 Ladies SP:
Kwan over Slutskaya - would have had Slutskaya 1st, Kwan 2nd.

World's 2001 Men's LP:
Yagudin over Eldredge - would have Eldredge second, Yagudin third

[Tigger]

The one that still bugs me to this day is 92 Cdns where Hough and Ladret should have won, but Brasseur and Eisler were given the gold. Tuffy and Doug had a flawless, passionate skate to Les Mis. Izzy and Lloyd had an error filled and very flat skate to Dances W/Wolves/Fish Called Wanda. I still say Tuffy and Doug should have been Two Time Cdn Pairs Champions.

[Mistyeyed]

The book, "The Inside Edge" gives a fairly good view of why P/ was chosen to win the Gold over W. Personally I love W. skating he is so artistic but I also love P. He is very what is the word....I don't know, he plays to the audience very well.

[Biffer1997]

I know who G&G are in 1994--but who did they beat? Who is M&D? :??

[Spinner]

Originally posted by Biffer1997
I know who G&G are in 1994--but who did they beat? Who is M&D? :??
Natalia Mishkutenok & Artur Dmitriev of Russia. He later won an Oly gold medal in '98 with new partner Oksana Kazakova.

[icenut84]

Originally posted by Spinner
Natalia Mishkutenok & Artur Dmitriev of Russia. He later won an Oly gold medal in '98 with new partner Oksana Kazakova.

Mishkutenok & Dmitriev had also won the Olympic gold in 92.

[carebear]

SLC sp:
Slutskaya
Kwan
Cohen
LP:
Hughes
Slutskaya
Cohen

[gardana]

I agree with what the poster earlier said, most of these could go either way. Regarding M&D and G&G, people have been debating the results for almost 10 years! :roll:

Personally I think M&D should of won the gold, although I can also see the case for G&G.
All I can say about those performances, is that it is one of the greatest nights for pairs skating ever. And secondly, if there ever was a case for the double gold to be given out, 1994 was it.

[Roma]

I just can't agree that Kerrigan was robbed in '94. In my opinion the women's competition in Lillehammer showed a great weakness in the decision to move the Olympics up by 2 years.

After Yamaguchi and Ito turned pro in '92, there was a great void that normally would have had the usual 4 years to fill. But because the Olympics were moved up from '96 to '94, the void was not adequately filled in the 2 years. Thus the 2 main contenders were the good but not great Kerrigan (who, if the Olympics hadn't moved up would never have hung around until '96) and Bauil, who was very good in 94, but probably would have been much better in '96.

Thus, what could very well have been a battle between what Kwan and Lu were like in 96 (incredible) and what Bauil would have probaly been like in 96 (also incredible) never took place.

Instead, we had a contest of a not-yet-peaking Baiul against Kerrigan.
NEITHER woman gave a gold medal performance in 94. Many people who argue that Kerrigan gave the performance of her life forget that even her best ever was not great. She did only 5 triples in the BEST skate of her life. She had neither the triple lutz/triple toe and 2nd lutz that Yamaguchi had, nor Ito's 3 axel. Thus the technical level DROPPED from 92 to 94. And Kerrigan had no where near the artistry of Kristi, Oksana, Lulu, Michelle.

So I think Nancy got the silver medal she deserved and actually was lucky that the 94 Olympics got moved up so she had a 2nd chance at a medal--- a chance she never would have had if they had kept the 4 year interval.

[Marco]

Kerrigan had the 3toe3toe nonetheless and 3 other clean triples - with a 3lutz at the end. Her performance wasn't perfect but was definitely better than the rest. And that's what mattered. She need not match Ito or Yamaguchi technically, because they didn't compete. She did not need to have the best skate of her life to win. If she had the best skate of the night (which she did), she deserved to win.

[silver samba]

Originally posted by Germanice
- Ilia at '96 Worlds.


Anke

You think Ilia was robbed? Robbed how ?

[Ximena]

Plushenko at 2002 GPF, I couldn't understand how the judges marked him so low in the technical side.
Abt at Euros 2002