Martini says iskater.com is done - March/April 2003 IFS

[IgglesII]

page 53 of the March/April 2003 has a story titled "The Demise of iskater.com"

My favorite quote in this story: "Last gasp effort to keep it alive." That's how Paul refers to charging to use the message boards.

Says the site hasn't been updated since November 8, and won't be any more.

Buh-bye.

[Artemis]

I'm devastated. Where will I go now for up-to-date information on the world of figure skating?

<</sarcasm off>>

[Skatingsarah]

Does this mean it is TOTALLY ca-putt or does it mean that they arent going to charge. Cuz it was sooo good when they didnt start to charge. I feel sorry for the ppl that paid!
-Sarah

[duane]

i still remember that day way back when, when i went to get my daily dose of FSW, only to find out that i had to pay to do so! no warning, no pre-announcement...nothing. i was in the process of signing up, but became so upset over their sneak attack that i decided not to.

i too feel sorry for those who paid. not at all sorry about the demise of iskater.

[Sing_Alto]

I'm really broken up over this news. Anyone got a spare tissue? :mrgreen:

[IgglesII]

Originally posted by Skatingsarah
I feel sorry for the ppl that paid!
-Sarah


Yeah, so do I - especially since the article also notes that there's currently no plan to refund anyone their money.

[CMc]

Anyone here remember Ross Perot talking about "a giant sucking sound" when he ran for president in '92? I think it was really iskater.com! ;)

I'm SO glad I didn't pay to stay with them.

[A.H.Black]

OK, I'm as cynical about this as everyone but I can't help looking back with regret. It was very nice to be able to read up-to-date reports and reviews on competitions. The whole idea of Iskater was a good one. It's too bad it wasn't better handled. It's disapointing.

[Doug]

Seems to me charging users for the service is a pathetic last gasp. Good e-business folk know there are lots of other ways to make money. With the good site they had and tons of loyal watchers, they are perfectly set up to make good sponsor and advertising money. There should have been tie in's (links) to related sites, everything from sports magazines, to skate makers, to arenas, to bloody heath food and vitamins. Within reason, mind you. Not to mention some commerical agreements with the various federations. Then they could have a base product for free, and start to have upgrades or other inside products that those who wish could buy. Up to them to be smart enough to figure out what those products were.

I coudl go on. But suffice it to say I feel it's disappointing we lost such a good site, but I have no sympathy for the iskater folks - in fact I'm frustrated they couldnt find a way to make money.

Maybe they shoudl have come to us and asked us what we wanted and what we'd pay for... a little thing called consumer research?

[Lise]

That would explain why I finally received my record of employment and my T4 slip for income taxes from them yesterday!! :)

I had a feeling that this would happen...

Lise

[CMc]

www.iskater.com

I think the fact that it's dated 2002 speaks volumes.

[loveskating]

I'm sad for them. Tried to support them, but no one was posting there and the site was not updated.

I think they charged way too much when they made the change, and especially considering that many posters are kids, should have started low and phased in, and had different levels of membership, but I have also noted that since SLC the number of posters is waaaaay down everywhere because IMHO the sport itself was implicated and now is seen as corrupt.

Another factor is the political reality since 9/11. I'm sure lots of people feel that sports/entertainment is a distraction or at least serious thought about same is viewed as rather insignificant.

However, I also think this is what happens when every poster who does not toe the line down to the minutest detail is systematically insulted, misquoted, personally attacked, ostracized, even criminalized, slandered, and sometimes even hounded all over the Net and even in real life, so that only the very, very strong can even continue to post.

Its CLASSIC, not at all peculiar to figure skating...you either allow real debate, and work hard to make it as civil and factual as possible, or you wind up talking to yourself, preaching to the converted, which soon becomes rather boring.

[Taz-Man]

Originally posted by CMc
Anyone here remember Ross Perot talking about "a giant sucking sound" when he ran for president in '92? I think it was really iskater.com! ;)

I'm SO glad I didn't pay to stay with them.

*ROFL*
Silly me, how could I have missed what he was referring to....?? [tongue planted firmly in cheek]

[Kruss]

All I know is, I'd be LIVID if I had paid money and they had no intention of giving it back. Paid for what??!! For them to steal money?

I'm glad I didn't pay, but if I did, I'd be really upset.....how on earth can they legally keep money for services not rendered?

[Lise]

For those who paid, contact your credit card companies asap to stop the payments for iskater (inform them about the company closing). Also, try any means possible to re-coup any money owed to you by iskater.

Lise

[Jenny]

Originally posted by IgglesII


My favorite quote in this story: "Last gasp effort to keep it alive." That's how Paul refers to charging to use the message boards.



With all due respect to Paul's *skating* career, that statement is bull****. Making it a pay-for-use site was always part of the business plan, it had to be. The day they made that move I'm certain they were congratulating themselves on their business acumen and toasting the beginning of their future.

Their mistakes were numerous along the way, but suddenly changing to a pay service wasn't the biggest one they made. That was just a symptom of a larger problem at the very core of the venture IMO:

iskaters looked at skating fans as customers. They acquired FSW because they thought that meant they had several thousand customers in the bag. We were to be the source of revenue for iskater. (And in Paul's case, they were to be used in his personal and business battles with Skate Canada - for shame!)

In fact, skating fans and the members of FSW were ASSETS, *not* customers. We were the assets that generated the traffic necessary to attract other streams of revenue - advertising, and commercial contracts (such as web site design and hosting).

Idiots, all of them.

Jenny

[Lise]

Jenny,

You are right. They have wanted to make it a pay board right away but a few times Helen managed to stop them. However, if you ask me, they didn't research this venture fully to see how to make to make a profit. I can't blame them for wanting to make money. I beleive that their problems with Skate Canada just made things worse.

I'm not sad to see them go, I had feeling all season long that they weren't going to last much longer.

[CarolA0923]

I had no problem paying for the live coverage. However, the fact that they could not tell you which events that planned to cover live this year scared me off from even dealing with them. I think someone could take that and if not "Make money" at least pay for their trips to the events. Lots of people liked that.... (I can't do it, can't tell the jumps apart that fast!:))

[Louis]

I don't know if anyone who paid Iskater can get a refund. Technically, the site is still up, and members still have access to the archives and other "exclusive" content. I didn't read their fine print, but I doubt there were any guarantees about what membership would entail, and I'm sure there was some kind of an escape clause in there unless their legal team was even more stupid than their marketing team.

Those who paid Iskater still have access to the web site.... there's no new content there, but they still have the access they paid for. I doubt there's any way to receive a refund because Iskater has maintained its basic TOS.

[Louis]

Originally posted by CarolA0923
I think someone could take that and if not "Make money" at least pay for their trips to the events. Lots of people liked that.... (I can't do it, can't tell the jumps apart that fast!:))

James Cowling has already done that. Personally, I won't pay for any reports because there's always someone willing to do it for free. (And oftentimes that person is yours truly!) For almost all elite events, someone somewhere in the world is either at the event or watching it on TV. I find that most of the fan reports are definitely more accurate than the ones you'd find on Iskater.

With the level of skating discussion on the internet, I don't think anyone is going to turn much of a profit selling memberships, reports, or any other kinds of information. Jenny's post hit the nail on the head.

[adrianchew]

I haven't read the article - but I believe the original goal was for Iskater to do streaming video, and Paul could still play a role as a commentator for that video feed as well. That's something people will pay for - but as far as getting the networks to play along, its not easy (or probably even possible).

We'll see what will happen to the Ice Channel that's suppose to become a reality - access to timely coverage of some bigger events might still be limited/restricted by the networks.

[vesperholly]

"Last gasp effort"? Maybe iskater wasn't thriving, but FSW certainly was! And gee, now we have the same thing as FSW right here.

Jocelyn

[Lise]

Would someone be kind enough to fax me a copy of the article? I've checked all the bookstores in the city and nada...

Please e-mail me at liseb1@excite.com

Thanks!

Lise

[rack]

Originally posted by adrianchew
I haven't read the article - but I believe the original goal was for Iskater to do streaming video, and Paul could still play a role as a commentator for that video feed as well. That's something people will pay for - but as far as getting the networks to play along, its not easy (or probably even possible).

We'll see what will happen to the Ice Channel that's suppose to become a reality - access to timely coverage of some bigger events might still be limited/restricted by the networks.

I heard from a third hand (but extremely reliable source- I always wanted to say that) that Ice Channel is "on schedule."

[Fedor's Girl]

i'm sad to see iskater go, yet at the same time, I'm not really.... for me, iskater died the day they started charging money for everything. I give them credit for the quality of the site they had in the beginning. For thier Skate Canada 2000 coverage, they had free video interviews online, for Worlds in Vancouver, they had live play by play. Afterwards, it wasn't about skating fans. It was about the money skating fans would give to them. If you weren't a member, all you'd see were pages and pages that read "sorry, this is a membership area only", even if it was something simple like a skater's biography. And of course, the only page where everyone could access is the page where you can purchase iskater accessories. To me, the site showed potential in the beginning. Too bad things turned out the way they did.

[adrianchew]

Originally posted by rack

I heard from a third hand (but extremely reliable source- I always wanted to say that) that Ice Channel is "on schedule."

But the big question is whether they'll be able to show big events like Worlds, ahead of the network telecasts? I never said they wouldn't happen though... and I do hope they can deliver... but given the politics of money, I wouldn't be surprised if they have less than timely coverage of the biggest events, but the smaller ones shouldn't be a problem.

[Spinner]

Jenny, I stand and applaud your marvelous post. Well said! I've worked retail for many years now and one thing I've come to accept as a basic tenet of my workmanship is people are not numbers. Whether they make a large purchase or not, if you treat someone like a guest in your home they'll become loyal to your store. I've worked for the same company now for three years (but I'm in my third store) and have many customers who have followed me from my first store because they like the environment I try to create when they shop. If i$kater had observed this same tenet we'd have a much different situation regarding skating message boards right now. Off the top of my head they should have done two things differently:

1. Reduce the exhorbitant yearly fee from $70 (is that right?) to say, $20. With as many active members as they had at F$W and all the potential new members, this would surely have covered expenses.

2. Instead of cutting us all off at the knees without warning, ASK us to join. Give us a two-week notice they're going to go to a pay site and let us make any necessary arrangements. With that simple courtesy I believe they would have had hundreds of new subscriptions, probably including mine.

To quote the New Radicals song, "you get what you give." i$kater.com cut us off, and we returned the favor. Sad, so sad...

[dbell]

I just posted a similar message on Sharpie's board, but I feel if iskater had posted something asking if we would contribute funds to be 'members', most of us would have put up the $ to keep the board going. But, they chose to shut down the boards and issue a demand for close to $60 for some non-specific 'special' coverage.

I'd like to thank Adrian (and Sharpie) for welcoming the FSW 'refugees'. I've found Patsy and her Parlor here, Trillian's ER reviews and a ton of other things I could mention, but we've already had that walk down the lane when we all met up here months ago.

So - thanks again to the boards that 'took us in'. :)

[VGL]

I shoulda trademarked i$kater ;)

[GrapeSoda]

2. Instead of cutting us all off at the knees without warning, ASK us to join. Give us a two-week notice they're going to go to a pay site and let us make any necessary arrangements. With that simple courtesy I believe they would have had hundreds of new subscriptions, probably including mine.

I couldn't agree more. The way they suddenly pulled the plug and cut everyone adrift was so cold-blooded that I wouldn't have paid their fee no matter what it was. It seemed like such a sure-fire way to alienate most of your potential customer base that part of me thought iskater must have done it that way on purpose, hoping to cut way way down on bandwidth costs. It's incredible to me that anyone would have seriously thought that was a good idea.

[singerskates]

Originally posted by CarolA0923
I had no problem paying for the live coverage. However, the fact that they could not tell you which events that planned to cover live this year scared me off from even dealing with them. I think someone could take that and if not "Make money" at least pay for their trips to the events. Lots of people liked that.... (I can't do it, can't tell the jumps apart that fast!:))

Some of us skating fans, are actual adult skaters who only started skating because we got inspired to learn to skate because of our favourite skaters. I am one of them. But once Iskater started charging and with me skating and competing, I had no money to invest into Iskater to hear Paul tell me what was happening when I could watch it on TV myself. Being a skater, I can tell what jump a skater is going to do before they get ready to take off. I have to be able so that I know how to avoid the other skaters on the ice when their program music is playing or when they are getting coached. It's called rules of the ice.

Paul and his gang really should have done some research. All they had to do was conduct a poll at FSW whether we were willing to pay for service or not. They should have had a second poll too; what are you willing to pay for live internet coverage service $1, $2 and so on a shot.
But no, Paul deviated from the first rule of business. Know what the public is willing to bear. Paul went in blind and stayed blind until the end of his dealings with them.

Brigitte

[Spinner]

Originally posted by singerskates
Paul deviated from the first rule of business. Know what the public is willing to bear. Paul went in blind and stayed blind until the end of his dealings with them.

Brigitte

Don't be so quick to lump Paul into their bad decision-making. I'd bet money he was only a spokesperson at best, a 'name' skater to lend creditbility to i$kater as a 'business'. Doubtful he was involved in any of the major 'business' decisions, good or bad.

[A.H.Black]

Don't be so quick to lump Paul into their bad decision-making. I'd bet money he was only a spokesperson at best, a 'name' skater to lend creditbility to i$kater as a 'business'. Doubtful he was involved in any of the major 'business' decisions, good or bad.

At Skate America a couple of years ago my friend and I got into a conversation with Paul. We asked him what the plans were for the furture of Iskater. He talked about video etc. More importantly he talked about "business plans" and "profitability" and gave us the firm impression he was very involved with the business of Iskater and it's future.

If he was merely a spokesman, he was an enthusiastic one. He made it sound like he was very much part of the management and decision making process and not just window dressing.

[Halo girl]

I'm not Paul, nor do I know Paul, so I can't say what his intentions regarding iskater really were. However, most celebrity spokepersons do speak in terms of "their business" what "they" sell, what "they produce, design, create, etc". Hopefully, you already have a positive attitude about that person, so by putting themselves with "their product", you also have a good attitude about what they are trying to sell. Paul is a skater, and as far as I know, please correct me if I'm wrong, has had no education in business. In working on the level of legalities, business planning, etc. I seriously doubt Paul would have the knowledge of having much to do with that. My guess would be that there was a board in charge of that, and Paul was simply there as a go between for the public and the company. Again, I could be wrong, but that's been my impression.

[Lise]

No..Paul was indeed very much involved in all aspects of the business. He knew what was going on at all times.

[Spinner]

Thanks for the info Lise, I guess we all stand corrected. It's a shame, you'd think that being a popular skater he'd know the value of fans and not try to use them as a commodity.

[Chico]

I took thank Andrian for this board. I love the way this board is done and appreciate a way to "talk" about my sport. I was positively saddened by the way by the way the old board, money issue, was handled. I couldn't "run" fast enough the way hhings were handled at the end. As an adult skater I don't have the funds for a bulletin board, nor the desire to be treated poorly by one.

Chico

[Greek Chic]

I knew that it would have happened sooner or later. Am I ever glad that I only signed up for 1 month after the sneak of just one day turnover to pay for a figure skating board. I mean why was there no warning? It was a good board, don't get me wrong, it was very informative about the day to day articles about figure skating. I really liked the play by play of competitions that I could not see on television. Well at least a lot of former FSWorld people are on this board so technically we haven't missed each other.