Status of Female Dancers

[snowflake]

Since there's so much commotion about all of these male dancers, what is the status of the female dancers? these males need females to skate with, so....whose available for them? here's a list from my knowledge:

jennifer wester
ashley elliot
natalie bos
ashley williams
melissa ralph
mimi whetstone
anna scheumann
kendra goodwin (if she hasnt already paired up with o'meara)
lindsay evans

i think thats all i know, unfortunately. if anyone else has any other skaters, let me know!
why did jon harris and jenn split again? whats goin on with mimi? did she compete last season? where is she from? is ashley williams still skating? i know she skates (or did skated) in UDel, but is she still looking for a partner?

[Icesk8dance]

Adding Stacy Carter.

[Weegie]

Mimi competed with Nathan Miller through North American Challenge in Thunder Bay in August. Shortly after that, Nathan moved to Colorado Springs to continue training his freestyle and began skating pairs with Chelsee Foster.

[WeBeEducated]

Mimi competed for years with Nathan Miller, (both from Oklahoma)yet they were still intermediates last year, decided to part ways, then got together for the NAC they were offered, where they finished in last place I believe.
Nathan seems perfect for pairs. He is strong and a good freestyle skater, and did very well for his first year in pairs(junior nats appearance).
If Mimi wants a serious partner she will probably have to move.
She tried that at one other time. She went to train briefly with Adam Smith but quickly went back to Oklahoma.
Hopefully if she still wants to icedance she can find someone closer to home.

[Dnce4UGold]

I just heard that Kirsten Frisch is coming out to San Jose for a possible tryout. Does anyone have information on this split?? It's such a shame. Add her to the female dancer list.

[WeBeEducated]

Kristin in San Jose?..Hhmmm...I can imagine her being a great match with Leo Ungar, even tho Carly is very good too and I havnt heard of any breakup with Leo-Carly.

[PinkFluffSk8r]

Maybe she is trying out with John Harris?

[Weegie]

Or Brent Holdburg? (I believe he is in California now.)

[WeBeEducated]

Brent???? I cant imagine that! He just doesnt have the finesse, but Jonathon Harris has something special.
He is one kid that I wish had a secure form of support for skating, because there is alot of raw talent there if he could stay in one place and focus.
I admire many of his skating qualitites and he is very sweet too. I thought he would have been very good for Lydia Manon way back when...but that didnt work out , and now I could see him with Kendra before Kristin. He has an exotic skating style that I think international judges would appreciate.

[dhskatefan]

What happened to Kirsten and Brent? I thought they were doing very well this year...

[Icesk8dance]

Originally posted by WeBeEducated
Brent???? I cant imagine that! He just doesnt have the finesse, but Jonathon Harris has something special.
He is one kid that I wish had a secure form of support for skating, because there is alot of raw talent there if he could stay in one place and focus.
I admire many of his skating qualitites and he is very sweet too. I thought he would have been very good for Lydia Manon way back when...but that didnt work out , and now I could see him with Kendra before Kristin. He has an exotic skating style that I think international judges would appreciate.

Didn't Jonathan have a secure form of support from his last two partherships?

[WeBeEducated]

I agree with you, a part time job should be expected, and I think all skaters should do this, and not act like they are somehow harder worked than any other serious athlete/teen. I know plenty of young athletes that train daily in their sport, go to school and make excellent grades,
and work a part time job on weekends.
Many in skating who are catered to by parents, partners, coaches, etc.,are going to be in for a big surprise when they discover the rest of the world isnt so impressed with their one dimensional efforts.

[Dnce4UGold]

Here,here! I agree.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by dhskatefan
What happened to Kirsten and Brent? I thought they were doing very well this year...

one thing i noticed at nationals this year is that while they looked the same height on the ice, kristen looked taller off the ice. however, in their skating, i didn't notice a mismatch in leg line. so if they have done this well and kristen isn't growing any more, why split because of height?

on the other hand, dance has been evolving in very interesting ways lately, with lots more tricks that toss the girl around more. (i personally like the new directions.) with little or no difference in height, such maneuvers would be difficult or impossible (not to mention hard on the guy's back).

so, i wonder if the separation was pragmatic, giving each an opportunity to partner up with others for senior, giving a new partnership a head start.

too bad though, they've done really well over their partnership.

i wonder if kendra is already in detroit. up to now her only option appeared to be ryan, which i can't picture.

[Icesk8dance]

Can anyone say for certain that Kirsten and Brent have split or is this all just a rumor?

[WeBeEducated]

I have not heard anything about a split except here, but because he actually is shorter than her off the ice(his boots have big heels!) then they might be worried a little about appearing so similar in height on the ice.
I like the team and I like the look of symetry in ice dancers.
I hope it doesnt go the way of Pairs, with the big guys and teeny girls.
In ballroom dance similarity in height is quite common and they still look awesome.
My first reaction to this rumour was that she would want a skater of simlar achievement and motivation, which is why I thought of Leo Ungar.
Personally I find that the tricks and acrobatic lifts add very little to what I enjoy about icedancing.
I love to see skaters with neat, fast, complex footwork in unison, and incredible flow and edges, and skaters who can really dance/move.
Truth is, smaller guys are often better at this than the big ones.

[dnce2thetop]

whats goin on with mimi?

-snowflake


Benjamin Cohen, 2002 novice ice-dance champion (with former partner Sarah Solomon), will now be skating with Mimi Whetstone of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Whetstone won the 2002 Junior National Bronze Medal in Intermediate Dance (with partner Nathan Miller). Whetstone & Cohen plan to compete at the junior level this upcoming 2003-2004 competitive season. Mimi has relocated to Northern Virginia to join Ben where they will train under head coach Scott Myers at SkateQuest of Reston.

[JKlink]

Originally posted by Icesk8dance
Can anyone say for certain that Kirsten and Brent have split or is this all just a rumor? I can't imagine that Kirsten would be trying out with either Brent Holdburg or Jonathan Harris, could there be anyone else in the San Jose area? Since they are no longer listed in any of the USFSA's Team Envelopes, I would assume that it is true. As one of our top junior teams, this is not a good sign. Two of the our top 6 teams have split up since Nationals and Kirsten and Brent were probably our strongest team. I will miss watching them skate and wish then both the best. Does anyone know what Brent is doing?

I'm not sure who Kirsten is trying out with in San Jose, but Brent Holdburg is skating out there, but I'm not sure what Jonathan Harris is doing. I have been told that he no longer is working with Sergei Ponomarenko, but he might still be available as a partner. JK

[Dnce4UGold]

Hi All -

News today from San Jose, Jennifer Wester is now partnered with Daniil Barantsev. That's all I know for now. Have a good day!

Dasvedanya

[butterfly]

Too bad Frisch and Bommetre can no longer skate together because of height. They were together so long. Actually Frisch will probably be able to find a partner, she isn't that tall. On the other hand Bommetre may have a harder time for a guy. The only female skater on the list that might be perfect for Bommetre would be Milissa Ralph. Has he tried out with her yet, does anyone know?

[Icesk8dance]

Originally posted by Dnce4UGold
Hi All -

News today from San Jose, Jennifer Wester is now partnered with Daniil Barantsev. That's all I know for now. Have a good day!

Dasvedanya

Wow, great catch Jennifer! Does anyone know where this team will be training and which country will they represent?
Wishing all the best to this new team.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by WeBeEducated
My first reaction to this rumour was that she would want a skater of simlar achievement and motivation, which is why I thought of Leo Ungar.


leo has a talented partner, carley donowick.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by butterfly
Too bad Frisch and Bommetre can no longer skate together because of height. They were together so long. Actually Frisch will probably be able to find a partner, she isn't that tall.


so how tall is she, honestly, really? at nationals, i heard she was at least 5'8" tall. how tall is brent, really (i heard 5'7").

[Icesk8dance]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
so how tall is she, honestly, really? at nationals, i heard she was at least 5'8" tall. how tall is brent, really (i heard 5'7").

Their USFSA bio has Kirsten listed as 5'6 and Brent as 5'8. I would have guessed they were the same height, but not 5'8. Does anyone know if either of these talented dancers have found partners?

[Tony Wheeler]

Concerning Wester & Barantsev, the team will represent the United States and she will move to Connecticut; they will be coached by Morozov.

[quark]

Originally posted by Tony Wheeler
Concerning Wester & Barantsev, the team will represent the United States and she will move to Connecticut; they will be coached by Morozov. I'm sorry, but this sounds very much like a "rent a Russian" situation. The disparity in talent is too great, and the similarity in height is not generally acceptable to International judges. Hope I'm wrong.

Jaime Silverstein, Kendra Goodwin, or Melissa Ralph would have been much better talent matches.

[butterfly]

Was last year Wester's first year for skating dance? Was she a single skater before?

[sk8erboi]

Jen has been dancing for years, but this year was the first time she has competed at Nationals. She has partnered with Nick Hart, Trevor Bird, Jonathon Harris, and she also trained with a guy in Italy.

"I'm sorry, but this sounds very much like a "rent a Russian" situation. The disparity in talent is too great, and the similarity in height is not generally acceptable to International judges. Hope I'm wrong. "

I have to agree. And with all the money the Westers have, it really wouldn't suprise me. But I seriously hope that she was chosen because she was the best fit. But we may never know.

[butterfly]

Originally posted by sk8erboi
Jen has been dancing for years, but this year was the first time she has competed at Nationals. She has partnered with Nick Hart, Trevor Bird, Jonathon Harris, and she also trained with a guy in Italy.

"I'm sorry, but this sounds very much like a "rent a Russian" situation. The disparity in talent is too great, and the similarity in height is not generally acceptable to International judges. Hope I'm wrong. "

I have to agree. And with all the money the Westers have, it really wouldn't suprise me. But I seriously hope that she was chosen because she was the best fit. But we may never know. Well, I'm sorry but it all seems to be clear now, it is definitely "rent a Russian". Never a good situation.

[WeBeEducated]

It's no different from renting an American, which is the case with most teams...the girls either pay the way or pad the way for their partners, in dance and in pairs.
In fact, most guys expect it.

[Tony Wheeler]

Barantsev had unsuccessful tryouts with both Silverstien and Goodwin before trying out with and eventually pairing up with Wester, so I don't really think the Rent-A-Russian is the case..

[butterfly]

Originally posted by WeBeEducated
It's no different from renting an American, which is the case with most teams...the girls either pay the way or pad the way for their partners, in dance and in pairs.
In fact, most guys expect it. Well, I think that is a outrageous attitude in a very expensive sport. What does that do to very talented females who don't have daddy's money to get them everything they want. In fact it makes a very difficult situation in a sport where working together under such stress is already an issue, throw money into the mix and see what happens. I know coaches who will not coach a paid partner.

[WBLanghans]

"It's no different from renting an American, which is the case with most teams...the girls either pay the way or pad the way for their partners, in dance and in pairs.
In fact, most guys expect it."

If I were the parent of a male pairs or dance skater, I would find that statement somewhat insulting.

Just to set the record straight, neither of Ellie's dance partners (Joe Braasch and Ian Ross-Frye) nor their families ever asked for any money from us.

[Trillian]

Originally posted by sk8erboi
Jen has been dancing for years, but this year was the first time she has competed at Nationals. She has partnered with Nick Hart, Trevor Bird, Jonathon Harris, and she also trained with a guy in Italy.

I'm pretty sure the Italian guy was Massimo Scali, but that they were skating in Florida (?) or somewhere in the U.S. I haven't seen Jennifer skate and know little about her, so I can make no comment at all on her abilities--for all I know, she may be the most talented skater ever--but regardless of her skills, it amazes me that someone with her lack of credentials has landed partnerships with internationally accomplished guys like Scali and now Barantsev. She may be a great skater (like I said, I have no idea), but the disparity in experience is pretty extreme. Anyway, it seems she's had trouble hanging onto a partner over the last couple of years, so I hope for her sake that she can make this thing with Barantsev work out. He's quite a catch.

[quark]

Originally posted by Tony Wheeler
Barantsev had unsuccessful tryouts with both Silverstien and Goodwin before trying out with and eventually pairing up with Wester, so I don't really think the Rent-A-Russian is the case.. Your logic is wrong. Silverstein and Goodwin may not have wealthy parents. Ergo, no chance, even with considerably more talent.

I have no basic argument with paying for a partner if you have the money. A parent who loves their child, and who wants to satisfy their desire to skate with the best, will see little wrong with financial support of a partner. That's like a child being given a Mercedes Benz or a Jaguar while someone else is lucky to have a Chevy. Or going to a prestigious university that most people can't afford. I could go on and on, but you get my point. Frankly, I don't even feel that the child should feel ashamed. That's life! She's lucky to have the wherewithal to satisfy her "itch".

However, there are serious problems with the practice. First, Barantsev has likely given up his near term growth as an ice dancer in order to live here, and skate with someone not even close to his talent. I say that kindly, not with any animosity. OK, so Barantsev can make that decision. It's his life. I might do the same thing if I was a Russian who wanted to eventually become an American citizen.

Second, and more importantly, this practice dilutes the talent pool of the United States. A male ice dancer will choose the best offer, not the best partner. If you think our ice dancers are not competitive now, just wait until you see what happens with these "uneven" partnerships. While I wouldn't want the USFSA to even think about controlling this, even if they could, they had better wake up and realize that these partnerships will do great damage to the objective of winning medals in International competition. A wonderful male partner has been lost to the talent pool of the world, and maybe to the United States. Seems to me that the USFSA has to consider how to increase this pool for the United States so that non-financial arrangements can be made on the basis of talent, not family wealth. Doesn't this sound a little like offering scholarships so that disadvantaged students can go to Harvard or Yale?

In fairly recent times, a bottom dwelling National ice dance team demonstrated the problem of buying a partner by performing programs that were truly embarrassing. It's so easy to get to Nationals as an ice dance team. No names please. It's not fair. But, many of you know one or more teams that have been so uncompetitive, they should never have been in Nationals. Even horrible scores by the judges didn't convince them not to return the next year.

[sonora]

Quark, I agree with much of what you are saying.

Here is another thing to consider:

Is it better to skate with a lesser partner because financial help is available, or not skate at all because one cannot afford it?

[Angel01673]

I would take the chance on the partner with "lesser skill" If their style was compatible, and it also depends on age. If they are young and still developing, why not give it a shot for a while? It obviously worked for L/T and seems to be working for G/P as well.

[Dnce4UGold]

just wanted to set a notion mentioned earlier straight.
When some of you assumed that the Westers were quite wealthy, I hope this is of no offense to them if they are on this board, but you would seem to be quite wrong if you knew Jennifer herself.
As for my experience with her, she works extremely hard and had a side job at another rink to help pay for her skating and apartment. And they were not paying for Jon, which was apparently one of the reasons for the split - he ran his bill up so high that the rink, nor Sergei would let him skate.
As for skill, and I probably sound like I'm trying to defend Jennifer now, but while she may not have competed much in the US, she has alot of talent. And did it ever occur that while she was with these other partners she learned something?? I've seen photos of her and Massimo (sp?) in shows around Europe, in some she was even lifting him! This could be her big break to showcase a talent not yet shown off because of a lack of good AMERICAN boys.
I have to say, I would be quite discouraged if I were a girl looking for a good partner, people seem to think that unless you take an awful american boy and work your way up from intermediate or novice over 10 years of skate, then you must have bought your partner and can't possibly be any good. Well we will see what happens.
I wish Jenna and Danil (sp?) all the luck in the world....it looks like they need it to combat the message board gossip atleast!

[JKlink]

Because there is a shortage of male ice dancers, who cares where Jennifer finds a partner at or how. The question that remains for all of these new partnerships, is how well will they do? JK

[jonquil]

Curious that Jennifer Wester should be chosen over Kendra Goodwin. Definitey, a big payoff. Chances are he'll tire of her after he becomes eligible to represent the USA-then, he will find a partner that will be on his level.

Teaming with Jenifer, however, cheapens his image. She is known to be one mercenary, ambitious person. I would expect more from a junior world champion and his coach.

[Spinner]

Originally posted by jonquil
Teaming with Jenifer, however, cheapens his image. She is known to be one mercenary, ambitious person. I would expect more from a junior world champion and his coach.
How nice of you to express this opinion--in your first post even. I'm sure she'd be thrilled to know that you think her presence 'cheapens' someone's image. Please refrain from posting such derogatory comments in the future. --Spinner

[WeBeEducated]

I detest the practice of girls buying partners, regardless of who, why, or where the guy is from.
But I do know for a fact that it is quite common here in the US, in Pairs and Dance, and that coaches tell the parents of the girls that most guys will expect some form of financial compensation. Sometimes the coach offers "free" lessons to get the guy to commit to the girl, and then it grows from there.
So, do the guys pick the "best partner/best skater" or the most lucrative deal?
I believe without a doubt, that most pick the deal, which often includes much more than just skating expenses! I know it is happening all the way down on the juvenile level, up to seniors. I know an intermediate boy who was paid for, and flown back and forth frequently between the training town and his parents home, east coast to midwest. I know boys who have been given cars, and even college tuition. Coaches, the PSA, and the USFSA are completely aware of it and do not address it nor seek to discourage it.
I have first hand experience with it , and know that it is rare to find a boy paying his way 100%, and if he is then it isnt long before he hears about his other options, and soon, he is out the door.

[WBLanghans]

Originally posted by WeBeEducated
I have first hand experience with it , and know that it is rare to find a boy paying his way 100%, and if he is then it isnt long before he hears about his other options, and soon, he is out the door.

That was not our experience.

Wendy Langhans

[Daphne]

From what I understand, Daniil and his coach feel that Jennifer is a great match for him. I for one am looking forward to seeing what this and other newly formed partnerships can do next season and beyond.

Daphne

[JKlink]

From what I can see, the look that a couple has together on the ice is now a major factor in how couples are evaluated. You can change the way people skate, but not the look. I wish there was a better word to use, but that's the only one that I can think of right now.

Although height seems to be a factor, I would put more emphasis on the knee bend, extension and matching first. If you have these, then the height factor isn't as important because the look will match. There have been several teams where we had 2 strong skaters, but they didn't have the same stretch, matching or knee bend and it was very noticable. I'm wondering if this "look", is a factor with some of these splits and new partnerships? JK

[WeBeEducated]

WB....does Ellie still have a partner?

[sonora]

JKlink:

The look is important with respect to the line matching. A good matching line makes the "look" of unison so much easier to achieve. And, of course, the illusion of two skating as one is at the heart of both pairs and dance.

At the lower levels, unison is deemed more important than tricks. It kills me to see little pair teams working on that side by side double whatever, when they should really be stroking together instead.

Height differences are not as important as leg lines matching. Some pros will use the term hip line. If your legs are about the same length you will have a head start in getting your extensions to match. Thus a leggy 5'2" girl can look surprisingly good with a long torsoed 5'10" boy.

At the same time, too much size difference takes away from the difficulty of the lifts, and too little can make the lifts look awkward, even with skaters who look otherwise well matched.

Matching or contrasting coloring in the skin and hair can add to the appeal of a team, but is the line and the unison that really count.

[WBLanghans]

Originally posted by WeBeEducated
WB....does Ellie still have a partner?

No, she does not. It was a mutual decision and they parted on good terms. Ian was always kind and considerate of Ellie.

We've been holding off searching for a new partner until she decided on which college to attend (and, of course, which college would accept her :D .) But as we all know...a good partner is hard to find....

Wendy

[jkl]

I know that Christina Zepeda and Nick Hart broke up. Have either one of them found a new partner??

[CanAmSk8ter]

I haven't seen Jen and Daniil skate yet, but I was chatting with another skater from the rink this morning who has seen them, and she thought they looked good. She also said they got along really well right away, which doesn't surprise me- I haven't met Jen, but one of my friends has gotten to know Daniil a little and she said he's a really nice guy. I'm looking forward to seeing them skate.

[what?meworry?]

with regards to jeniffer wester, i find it hard to believe that a twice junior worlds champion would choose to skate with a partner with such an inconsistent history, over someone with proven credentials. however there is precident.

kristen fraser, i think (i'm not sure of my memory here) skated with nick hart (like, who hasn't). after that she skated with jonathan nicholes at dsc coached by natalia anenko (peter tchernychev's former wife and genrich's former partner). when they didn't place a high as he expected, he wouldn't speak to her and refused to skate with her again.

she then bought a russian, and has skated for azurbystan (goodness knows i have no idea how to spell that) to reasonable success in that this past worlds she and her partner placed 10th at WORLDS!

so, although i find it hard to believe, i suppose i should bow to the assumed wisdom of the coach. kendra is a far superior skater, however, in my estimation.

[Dnce4UGold]

another tidbit out of san jose...

Well, if anyone wants to know, Jennifer has stated she did not 'buy' her partner - I spoke to her over the phone and she was absolutely exstatic about the partnership and said that the decision was made by Daniil and Nikolai before they asked her weather she wanted to skate with him. As she put it, Nikolai came over and after some russian conversation bits with Daniil, said "we like, so you want to skate with him?". She recounted being shocked herself - but obviously she said yes! So who knows what they saw in her so fast, but judging from her past situations, there must be something about her that's very special and readily visable to coaches and skaters.
She is gorgeous and extremely expressive in her skating - as for a comparison with Kendra, I'm sorry but, Kendra does have an asian look that makes seeing her expression on the ice much more difficult. As long as we're saying that looks count, this could have been a factor!
No offense to Kendra, I think she is also a lovely and talented skater.
Congrats to Jennifer and Daniil, GOOD LUCK!!

Dasvedanya

[WeBeEducated]

An Asian face is less expressive on the ice??????

[IceDanceSk8er]

Dnce4UGold


Originally posted by Dnce4UGold
I'm sorry but, Kendra does have an asian look that makes seeing her expression on the ice much more difficult. As long as we're saying that looks count, this could have been a factor!

This "have an asian look" comment strikes me as either being racist or just plain ignornant. I'd like to think it was made out of ignorance.

[sonora]

Can we hope, please, that the meaning the poster was trying to convery is the difficulty with the second mark that many Japanese and Chinese skaters have not as a result of physiognomy but as a result of not having developed that part of their training yet?

[IceDanceSk8er]

Originally posted by sonora
Can we hope, please, that the meaning the poster was trying to convery is the difficulty with the second mark that many Japanese and Chinese skaters have not as a result of physiognomy but as a result of not having developed that part of their training yet?

Tell that to Michelle Kwan, Chengjiang Li, Lu Chen, Tiffany Chin, Shizuka Arakawa, Jason Wong, Midori Ito, Yuka Sato, Yankun Du, Ye Bin Mok, Yoshie Onda, Fumie Suguri, Xue Shen & Hongbo Zhao, etc.

Let the poster say what he/she meant.

[sonora]

I wasn't talking about American skaters of asian origin, just so you know.

I am just hoping the remark was not meant in the appalling way it seems.

[IceDanceSk8er]

Originally posted by sonora
I wasn't talking about American skaters of asian origin, just so you know. I am just hoping the remark was not meant in the appalling way it seems.

I'm so disgusted by your comment and Dnce4UGold's comment that I'm just not going to try to pursue this any more. I'm just appalled. That all I have to say.

[Lee]

Originally posted by IceDanceSk8er
I'm so disgusted by your comment and Dnce4UGold's comment that I'm just not going to try to pursue this any more. I'm just appalled. That all I have to say. I think you need to reread Sonora's comment. He/She appears to be hoping the original comment was NOT meant in a racist way. There is nothing offensive in his/her comments. I would suggest there is nothing *meant* as a racial slur in any of the comments.

I think we all have to stop and remember that writing as a form of communication is never as clear as face-to-face where one can read all the non-verbal stuff that goes along. We also have a wide variety of ages and linguistic ability on this board. I think most of us could do very well to give other posters the benefit of the doubt in most instances. It certainly can't hurt! ~Lee

[IceDanceSk8er]

Originally posted by Lee
I think you need to reread Sonora's comment. He/She appears to be hoping the original comment was NOT meant in a racist way. There is nothing offensive in his/her comments. I would suggest there is nothing *meant* as a racial slur in any of the comments.

I think we all have to stop and remember that writing as a form of communication is never as clear as face-to-face where one can read all the non-verbal stuff that goes along. We also have a wide variety of ages and linguistic ability on this board. I think most of us could do very well to give other posters the benefit of the doubt in most instances. It certainly can't hurt! ~Lee

Lee,

I understand everything you're saying and it does make sense. But when I read a comment like "Japanese and Chinese skaters have not as a result of physiognomy but as a result of not having developed that part of their training yet", that to me is inappropriate, to put it mildly.

[sonora]

Thank you Lee for clarifying that for me.

[sonora]

IceDancesk8er perhaps you are unaware of the strides many Asian teams are making in pairs and dance. Their strength is in their incredible tricks, and most need to develop their second mark. I believe this to be a national training program issue more than a racial characteristics one. I do not believe that an Asian skater, or an American skater of Asian origin, is incapable of expression for physical reasons. I believe that China and some of the other Asian nations are working on their second mark. Expression in this case is meant in that context, not in the context of facial expression or appearance.

Some of the difficulty chinese and other Asian nations' skaters have in achieving higher second marks may be cultural differences in what the various cultures consider dramatic expression. Our judging in skating, even international figure skating, is certainly biased towards western ideals of dramatic expression.

[what?meworry?]

so let's get back to the status of female dancers.

in the middle of all this is this question: if i read all these posts correctly about wester skating with the russian, and goodwin not skating with the russian, does that mean goodwin is still looking? has she tried out with bommentre? does this latest development mean goodwin has another guy available in the mix (how tall is she anyway?).

icedancesk8er has frisch/hill listed as a team. does that mean you have inside info?????

[IceDanceSk8er]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
icedancesk8er has frisch/hill listed as a team. does that mean you have inside info?????

Welcome back to the forum What?meworry?!

I don't have hard evidence that Frisch is skating with Hill. I do know that they have a tryout this week. I guess there is too much gossip or speculation about this being a possible match-up. We'll have to wait and see.

[Abahple]

Kirsten Frisch and Augie Hill have not officially paired up. She is currently in Dallas for a tryout.

As for Kendra Goodwin, I have heard from a reliable source that she is skating with Brent Bommentre.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by IceDanceSk8er
Welcome back to the forum What?meworry?!

I don't have hard evidence that Frisch is skating with Hill. I do know that they have a tryout this week. I guess there is too much gossip or speculation about this being a possible match-up. We'll have to wait and see.

gee, i haven't been gone that long!

well, isn't gossip and information what this board does?

really, though, you and webeduc. seem to be implying you know a bunch more than you're telling (i'm writting off xyzzy 'cause i pretty much know where xyzzy's comming from).

this really surprised me. i didn't pick up anything being whispered or mumbled around nationals that this was going to happen.

i'll put this question to icefreak who effectively said in one post that flo skates at icefreak's rink (paraphrased---she one of the hardest workers at "our" rink). did you see any indication this was in the works right after nationals?

[Abahple]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
i'll put this question to icefreak who effectively said in one post that flo skates at icefreak's rink (paraphrased---she one of the hardest workers at "our" rink). did you see any indication this was in the works right after nationals?

I can answer that. Nobody saw this coming at all. Flo and Augie had even picked music for this coming season.

[KingBob]

Originally posted by Dnce4UGold
She is gorgeous and extremely expressive in her skating - as for a comparison with Kendra, I'm sorry but, Kendra does have an asian look that makes seeing her expression on the ice much more difficult. As long as we're saying that looks count, this could have been a factor!
No offense to Kendra, I think she is also a lovely and talented skater.


I find this statement absolutely hysterical seeing as how Kendra is usually talked about as one of the most expressive skaters out there.

And I also find it absolutely hysterical that Jennifer thinks she hasn't "rented a Russian" ... c'mon... she knows the game, we all know the game. :roll:

[IceDanceSk8er]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
this really surprised me. i didn't pick up anything being whispered or mumbled around nationals that this was going to happen. i'll put this question to icefreak who effectively said in one post that flo skates at icefreak's rink (paraphrased---she one of the hardest workers at "our" rink). did you see any indication this was in the works right after nationals?

The Flo and Augie news caught everyone by surprise. I think we know how the grapevine works around here. Sometimes a little knowledge or misinformation goes a long way!

Flo is a hard worker but so is Augie. That's why they were so good together and successful. As far as having inside information, I have some knowledge, but since I am not a personal friend of either Flo's or Augie's, the likelihood of them telling me what led to their decision is very low. I think we all have to accept the reason they gave for their partnership ending. Some people on this board will look for a more sinister reason to their split, others will just accept their decision and wish them both the best of luck.

[frasier's ice]

I believe the partnership had a height difference problem. This team was very successful but I do believe to continue on into the senior ranks that problem had to be addressed.

People that have not been involved in this don't always realize the time, money etc..and to be successful in the senior ranks you sometimes have to make hard choices. I believe this was one of those situations.

I wish both these kids great success in the future.

[snowflake]

some one asked how tall kirsten is....ive heard taht she is around 5'9 and may still be growing (her mom is 6')

[Chelsea]

You have no idea what you are talking about. I know the Frischs and Kirsten is 5'7 1/2" and her mother is 5'9". Why do you make things up?

[what?meworry?]

awe, c'mon you guys---we've all been trying to guess heights. so augie was listed at 5'9" on the usfsa official bio but was taller. so brent was listed as 5'8" but was probably shorter and kirsten listed 5'6" and clearly taller. heck, ben's not much more than 5'10" and tanith probably 5'8" but ben's boots have been "elevated" (i saw dem boots live and in person! impressive!).

i'm not gonna attribute villainous intentions to someone's estimate of kirsten's height. especially since i thought the same based on kirsten looking taller than brent off the ice.

besides, augie's sister is 5'10" as of a couple years ago on the don korte sk8stuff partner search (thankfully, they never clean up that board!) and the odds of augie's future growth beyond his 5'11" is pretty good. also, according to the nationals book, frisch is a year older than he is---19 in august. most girls stop growing around 16 or 17.

i wanna know how tall andrew smith is.

[Dnce4UGold]

Andrew is supposedly 5'6 but I think he's more like 5'7 and looks like 5'8.

dasvedanya

[WeBeEducated]

In ballet, 5'10 is considered too tall...and when I watched Tanith at worlds I thought she looked awkward on the ice! I am one person who does not like the look of really really tall skinny skaters on the ice in general. Tanith looked lanky and not very quick on her feet to me...it kinda surprised me actually.
I hear alot of talk about the "look" of icedancers, expecially about the so called need for height, but most of my favorites were short, like Maya, and Pasha, and Renee Roca, and Jayne Torvill.
All of them were short!
loose and lanky looks best on the fashion runway, not on the ice

[Angel01673]

Yeah, I also noticed that Tanith is starting to get really lanky. I think B/A's physique matched better a couple of years ago than it does now, she seems to be getting thinner every year, and taller as well, maybe some last minute growth spurt? And her FD dress really emphasizes it. Her OD dress is better though in terms of making her look less lanky though.

[The Glow]

I thought that Tanith looked great this year actually, I think the reason why she is looking taller is mainly because she has lost a lot of weight in the past 2 years.. so she looks more stremlined. Perhaps she has grown a bit too.. but mainly I think it's the optical illusion.

I think that she and Ben are quite well physically matched.. and she is incredibly quick on her feet!!

Sorry to disagree!!

c ya!

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by WeBeEducated
...and when I watched Tanith at worlds I thought she looked awkward on the ice! I am one person who does not like the look of really really tall skinny skaters on the ice in general. Tanith looked lanky and not very quick on her feet to me...it kinda surprised me actually...

this is hysterical---right up there with the kendra goodwin expression comment. i don't know what you and angel01673 were watching but a whole bunch of the knowledgeable skating community (including the international judges) sure loves the b/a act! their "look" is just fine even if it takes elevated boots. so what? they've clearly established a strong presence internationally. and, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the way tanith looked this year.

but to each his/her own in personal preferences. i also appreciate a variety of skating types. russell/metzger look(ed) fine as a short team, g-r/m are a short (and elegant) team, neussar is a shapely dancer, moxley, solomon, also fall into that category. navarro/shmalo and cepican/lichtor fall into the "not a traditional dance look" category, too.

the real deal, however, is ultimately finding a best physical match in a partnership. (yes, yes, talent and skill level too). short or tall, the physique and leg line are extremely helpful.

[Angel01673]

I don't see how a personal preference is hysterical. There is no need to take it personal. I just happen to think that B/A had a better "look" the past two seasons than they did this season. That doesn't mean I think they have a terrible look now. And like I previously stated, maybe the costuming gave some sort of illusion. And even if I don't think they have the best lines around or have as good a physical match as they did in the past, that certinatly doesn't mean I'm trying to take away from their hard work or talent, and that's why the judges like them, there is nothing 100 percent perfect about any dance teams and just because alot of people like a certian team, doesn't mean the don't have their faults. Maybe some of the judges share a similar opinion as me, but since B/A have techincally difficult programs, the judges may be willing to over look that. It's just as a ballet dancer I may be more critical of these things than others. So sue me.:roll:

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by Angel01673
I don't see how a personal preference is hysterical. There is no need to take it personal....

as in hysterically funny. i stole this line from the poster who commented on the "asian facial expression" thing regarding goodwin.

even personal preferences should be grounded in in at least some level of reality.

[Angel01673]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
as in hysterically funny. i stole this line from the poster who commented on the "asian facial expression" thing regarding goodwin.

even personal preferences should be grounded in in at least some level of reality.

Yes, but a personal preference and a racial comment are two different ball games.

Tanith is tall and skinny, that is very much a reality.

[what?meworry?]

hmmmmm.... tall and skinny, eh?

sounds like just the style international judges are looking for!

nice of you to complement her, angel!

[KingBob]

LOL... I love how skating fans take things WAAAAYYY too seriously sometimes.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by KingBob
LOL... I love how skating fans take things WAAAAYYY too seriously sometimes.

go kingbob! good style, which is why i stole your phrase! i endorse humorous reality checks. tanks!

[Angel01673]

Nevermind, some people just can't accept opinions that are contrary to their own. And what?meworry?, please refrain from putting words in my mouth as I thought we could disscuss our difference of opinion in a mature manner without sarcasm being necessary. My mistake.

[IceDanceSk8er]

Originally posted by Angel01673
Tanith is tall and skinny, that is very much a reality.

Why don't we petition the ISU to make it mandatory that all tall and skinny figure skaters - regardless of their stature and accomplishments - must wear the Plushenko muscle suit.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by IceDanceSk8er
Why don't we petition the ISU to make it mandatory that all tall and skinny figure skaters - regardless of their stature and accomplishments - must wear the Plushenko muscle suit.

yes! now that's a creative solution. but it must be non-sexist. the girls need to beef up, too!

how about requiring all skaters to wear the same uniform! that way only the teknical details are assessed for the sekret computer!

better yet, could we instantaneously evaluate each move by computer based on the computer-modeled "perfect" jump or maneuver! thereby eliminating the judges althgether!

i think we've got something here. my people will call your people!

[Angel01673]

Originally posted by IceDanceSk8er
Why don't we petition the ISU to make it mandatory that all tall and skinny figure skaters - regardless of their stature and accomplishments - must wear the Plushenko muscle suit.

I didn't mean that there was anything wrong with being tall and skinny, it certiantly doesn't make her any less of a skater, I was just stating a fact, she is tall and skinny, just like her hair is blonde and her eyes are blue. And she is a model, which being tall and skinny is defiently an advatage.

[what?meworry?]

that was a nice comment. it surely is appreciated by the tanith fans (me being one of them).

[KingBob]

Hey, I've got an idea, why don't we get the judges from that "Are You Hot" tv show to judge ice dancing!! I can't imagine they'd do a worse job than our present ice dancing judges! :P

I personally think that edges and speed are a bunch of hooey.... they only thing I care about is who has the best rack and who has the most sequins.

[butterfly]

Originally posted by KingBob
Hey, I've got an idea, why don't we get the judges from that "Are You Hot" tv show to judge ice dancing!! I can't imagine they'd do a worse job than our present ice dancing judges! :P

I personally think that edges and speed are a bunch of hooey.... they only thing I care about is who has the best rack and who has the most sequins. Are you serious or do you just have nothing to say.

[KingBob]

Originally posted by butterfly
Are you serious or do you just have nothing to say.

It's called sarcasm, dear.... just trying to bring a bit of levity to the world of ice dancing.

[WeBeEducated]

Why would international judges want icedancers to be tall and skinny????
Tall means better edges?
Tall means better footwork ability?
Tall means better musicality?
Better spins?
Better posture?
No, none of these essential qualities for success in icedance have anything to do with height.
case in point: Marina , Pasha, Maya, Jayne...THE biggest names in icedance and all of them short.
Just because the fashion industry and media drown the public with images of tall skinny women doesnt mean that judges in a sport should or would offer bonus points to skinny tall women.
Why not expect tall skinny female singles skaters too????? Better line and grace? ha Thats simply not true, and is just an excuse for imposing a sterotype on another generation of young women. How very very sad that people still buy into such lies.

[what?meworry?]

look, webe. as kingbob illustrated, the conversation was getting really, really, stupid, so we (the 3 of us) responded in kind.

of course! short and shapely girl dancers and shorter, well-built guy dancers can make successuful teams! but so can tall "lanky" girls and guys.

cut the "nonsense" and get real. there is room for lots of dancer teams. but the international judges community will decide which will reach the top based on skill and performance.

that is, of course, if we can get them to be honest!;)

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by Dnce4UGold
Andrew is supposedly 5'6 but I think he's more like 5'7 and looks like 5'8.
i confess, i have an ulterior motive for this question. the flo/augie split is very disappionting to many of us who really enjoyed this team because they were really different and really talented.

however, there is a limit as to how much of a height difference a dance team can tolerate and continue to gain in achievement (although they did rank 3rd among all the usa dance teams in the isu junior international dance team---check the isu web site).

much of the success of this team was due to flo's incredible presence and presentation. so, while i think bommentre probably was not actually a good match (he's short enough, but not of the same physique) o'meara probably is. he isn't the most expressive guy in the dance mix, so he would surely benefit from flo's presentation. they are, as far as i can tell, of comparable skill (although he might have an overestimation of his level since he is with "igor-the-great." ok, so igor is really good, but ryan needs a well-matched partner and should consider relocating).

back to the "ulterior motive." too bad that andrew smith partnered up so fast after nationals. i believe he is very short for a guy (5'6") and that flo, being 5'1" with her experience and flat-out "pizzaz" would have been a great match!

no offence intented toward his current partner.

[Icesk8dance]

Originally posted by what?meworry?

much of the success of this team was due to flo's incredible presence and presentation. so, while i think bommentre probably was not actually a good match (he's short enough, but not of the same physique) o'meara probably is. he isn't the most expressive guy in the dance mix, so he would surely benefit from flo's presentation. they are, as far as i can tell, of comparable skill (although he might have an overestimation of his level since he is with "igor-the-great." ok, so igor is really good, but ryan needs a well-matched partner and should consider relocating).


So, does anyone know if a tryout has happend between Flo and Ryan or anyone else for the matter?

[JKlink]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
back to the "ulterior motive." too bad that andrew smith partnered up so fast after nationals. i believe he is very short for a guy (5'6") and that flo, being 5'1" with her experience and flat-out "pizzaz" would have been a great match!

no offence intented toward his current partner. So far all we have seen on these threads is musical chairs with partnerships, anybody have any real reports on how any of these new teams are doing? JK

[what?meworry?]

realistically, we are not likely to get good info on the progress. for example, icefreak believed f/h were not a good match but the pictures look ok, we have great comments about g/b. no spies reporting out of dsc on n/f.

i wish we could have those videophones with reporters traveling about reporting on the teams-in-progress!

i think the best we can hope for is information about who is actually skating with whom.

and, anticipate lake placid!!!

[SkateGuard]

Hi, just back from AN's with all this news...

I hope there is an engineer or something who can help me out.

I have noticed that taller skaters tend to get more speed out of less stroking. It's really noticeable when looking at kids and adult skaters at the same level--we have a 6-yr-old at the rink who is working on her prelim moves and at top speed, she has to do 6 lobes down the ice to cover the entire pattern. (And she's so fast she was passing the 10 yr olds during her pre-pre test!) Even when I'm being lazy, I nearly crash into the wall if I try to do five lobes of the same pattern--and I'm only 5'4". (And I just passed that test!)

It's a matter of physics; the longer lever provides a greater amount of force. (I don't really understand the specifics, but it's related to the idea that you have to put a larger hinge on a heavier door.)

Translate that to a competition where everyone does the same steps at the same position on the ice to the same beat, and the taller skaters "tend" to have more speed and flow than the shorter skaters. (I put tend in quotes because there are so many exceptions to this rule because of differing skating abilites, partnerships, talent level, etc. at the elite levels--it's much more noticable if you watch preliminary girls and bronze ladies on the same freestyle session.)

To ignore the physical nature of ice dancing would be a mistake (ask any biophysicist!), but it's more about talent and how the dancers cope with what nature gave them.

Is there any other scientists that can add their knowlege?

Erin

[icefreak]

Quote by SkateGuard
"I have noticed that taller skaters tend to get more speed out of less stroking....Translate that to a competition where everyone does the same steps at the same position on the ice to the same beat, and the taller skaters "tend" to have more speed and flow than the shorter skaters. "

totally disagree. just take a look at WeBeEducated's post. like he says.....some of the biggest names in icedancing is short.

[SkateGuard]

Originally posted by icefreak
some of the biggest names in icedancing is short.

Right. Jayne Torvill, Maya Usova...the list could be filled with Olympic medalists. But these ladies had an amazing talent, wonderful partners, and solid choreography suited to their physiques and personalities.

But the skaters we are discussing are not on that level; they may not have the talent, the partner, the passion to overcome a lack of height. It was an observation based on lower-level skating (mainly beginners), and most of those kids don't have the talent to push through an "imperfect" body type.

My point was that body type isn't irrelavent; there is a biophysical reason tall is good for dance. But it doesn't mean that a talented, shorter skater cannot be an Olympic gold medalist. There are a lot of factors that make a good ice dancer, and height is one of them. However, the other ones can compensate for a lack of height.

Erin

[icefreak]

This just in from Detroit - Ryan O'meara and Lydia Manon are skating together.

[butterfly]

Originally posted by icefreak
This just in from Detroit - Ryan O'meara and Lydia Manon are skating together. Well, I must admit I can't see those two together but I guess that O'meara is a bit desperate at this point and doesn't want to miss another season. Maybe Manon is desperate too. She is quite a big girl for O'Meara.

[butterfly]

One item of interest, I just happened to see O'meara's old partner Melisa Ralph skating with Charlie Butler several weeks ago. They looked fabulous together, but from what I have heard he is out of skating competition. They looked like they were having fun :).

[Trillian]

Ryan probably isn't more than an inch or two taller than Lydia--otoh, she's not exactly heavy, so I'm sure he won't have a problem lifting her. Is this a partnership for sure, or just a tryout or two friends skating together to keep in shape because they don't currently have partners? I know how those rumors can spring up. :) At any rate, if they are together, I'm not all that surprised--considering that they are good friends and both have had so much difficulty finding a partner, I guess it was bound to happen at some point.

[butterfly]

Originally posted by Trillian
Ryan probably isn't more than an inch or two taller than Lydia--otoh, she's not exactly heavy, so I'm sure he won't have a problem lifting her. Is this a partnership for sure, or just a tryout or two friends skating together to keep in shape because they don't currently have partners? I know how those rumors can spring up. :) At any rate, if they are together, I'm not all that surprised--considering that they are good friends and both have had so much difficulty finding a partner, I guess it was bound to happen at some point. It will be a good thing in the partnership for them to be friends, word from the DSC is that they have similar personalities. I wish them luck. This next season will be interesting.

Oh (sigh) I think we have a lot of mediocrity at the senior level now. We have B/A and I think L/T will not stay around for long, also G/P but we are in a building period in the US for dance. We are a long way down for World contenders.

[IceDanceSk8er]

Since we've spent a lot of time either speculating about who's going to skate with whom, body types, etc, what partnerships would you like to see? Which ones in your opinion would look good and work best?

[sonora]

I heard Trevor Bird got a partner. Anyone know who it is?

[sk8erboi]

Trevor is most likely going to be skating with Laura Rosenberg.

[IceDanceSk8er]

Does anyone know if these skaters have found partners?

Paul Huyrch
Melissa Ralph
Natalie Bos
Ashley Elliot
Ashley Williams
Anna Scheumann
Lindsay Evans
Stacy Carter
Nathan Miller
Jonathon Harris
Brent Holdburg
Stephanie Ellis
Patrick Connelly
Vitaly Shalin

[sonora]

Flo Steed would be another one to add to the list of "have they found a partner?"

[IceDanceSk8er]

Originally posted by sonora
Flo Steed would be another one to add to the list of "have they found a partner?"

You're absolutely right. I don't know how I could forget her when so many posts were about Flo and Augie.

[sk8erboi]

You can take Lindsey Evans off too. She has a partner named David i can never seem to remember his last name. They are skating in Colorado Springs.

[Angel01673]

Originally posted by butterfly
It will be a good thing in the partnership for them to be friends, word from the DSC is that they have similar personalities. I wish them luck. This next season will be interesting.

Oh (sigh) I think we have a lot of mediocrity at the senior level now. We have B/A and I think L/T will not stay around for long, also G/P but we are in a building period in the US for dance. We are a long way down for World contenders.

You think B/A are mediocre? And I hope L/T stay around for 2006,(they are the best eligible team right now) it's great to see the top two teams pushing each other to do their best, and maybe G/P will be pushing them in a couple of years as well. I don't think American ice dance is mediocre at all, this year at nationals was the most exciting in a long time. The rivalry between, L/T and B/A, the rise of GR/M, and maybe next year we'll see a good fight for the bronze between G/P and GR/M If ABC decides to show it , that is.

[butterfly]

Originally posted by Angel01673
You think B/A are mediocre? And I hope L/T stay around for 2006,(they are the best eligible team right now) it's great to see the top two teams pushing each other to do their best, and maybe G/P will be pushing them in a couple of years as well. I don't think American ice dance is mediocre at all, this year at nationals was the most exciting in a long time. The rivalry between, L/T and B/A, the rise of GR/M, and maybe next year we'll see a good fight for the bronze between G/P and GR/M If ABC decides to show it , that is. Sorry if you misunderstood or I wrote poorly...I only meant that we do have B/A and possibly L/T, but I do believe that we do not have others coming up that are world quality at all and that definitely includes GR/M. They have stuck together and they skate nicely but they are not at the high standard of what the international judges are looking for and all the teams below at the senior level for the US need a lot of improvement and seasoning. I just believe we have a couple of teams but no one to be in the top spots except B/A. L/T are winding down, injuries, his age I just don't see 2006 for those two at all. We do not have deep talent in ice dance in the US. Part of the problem is good dancers and bad coaches and choreographers. Just my opinion.

[Angel01673]

You think L/T are winding down? IMO Naomi has improved so much even with the injury, and after the way they skated at worlds IMO we haven't see the last of them yet.
I've always thought that bad choice of programs held them back, not because they were winding down. If any team with lesser ability skated their FD they would not have made it in the top ten. But because the quality of their basic skating is so good, their lines, edging, stroking, posture, carrage ect, they can get away with having a program like that and still make it into the top ten, it just shows how strong they really are. And the fact that peter may be getting up there in age and is still IMO the best male dancer in the world speaks for itself, he's just the complete package.

And GR/M are just getting started. Lauren is a beautiful skater with execllent extention, posture and and line.
Lauren and David have excellent CD's and have a great connection with each other, these two are young, and they will only get better with time and experience. And with so much time they devot to school, it's amazing they have done this well. I can't wait to see how they do on the senior GP cicuit this year.

[JKlink]

Originally posted by butterfly
Part of the problem is good dancers and bad coaches and choreographers.Matthews and Zavozin showed everyone what good coaching and great choreography could do both here and on the JGP circuit. I think that we will see some of the better coaches updating their skater's choreography while the rest remain behind thinking that they can win with what they have always taught.

My opinion is that the American judges switched and rewarded the European/Russian style of skating last year, and that some of the US coaches will follow this year. I think that Donowick and Ungar will do very well this year and that Pratt and Gilles should get a JGP to show what they can do. I can't say much about the rest of the juniors until LP is over, but it should be interesting. JK

[Weegie]

Does anyone know what level Lia Niatake and Stephen Chasman will be skating? I think they will be training in Colorado.

[Trillian]

Originally posted by Weegie
Does anyone know what level Lia Niatake and Stephen Chasman will be skating?

It would have to be senior; Lia can't skate any lower than that since she's already competed as a senior.

[WeBeEducated]

Lia is skating now with Stephen Chasman????8O I have to say that hearing that Lia has partnered up with a novice icedancer who was only 9th at Mids this year illustrates vividly how barren the USA is for male partners! A barren, dry desert
She must have been absolutley desperate.
No wonder girls end up buying a Russian.

[sonora]

Stephen is a nice dancer, who has come a long way for someone relatively new to ice dance. He may be a diamond in the rough.

He is also a nice kid.

[IdmaIjan]

Originally posted by sonora
Stephen is a nice dancer, who has come a long way for someone relatively new to ice dance. He may be a diamond in the rough.

He is also a nice kid.

You never know. I've heard judges and coaches totally dismiss the notion of two dancers having any success together for a myriad of different reasons. Lo and behold, that couple ignores all the talk and goes on to have more success, fulfillment and satisfaction with their skating than anyone ever predicted. And no, I will not name names. I get in trouble when I do that!

With the proper coaching, this could prove to be a very nice, successful team. When skaters have a good, solid, supportive skating environment it makes it easier for them to flourish. If they're skating in Colorado, I'd be interested to know in who is coaching them. So Lia left Darlene Gilbert? I'd be willing to bet that Darlene wanted what was best for Lia.

All the best to Lia and Stephen. I hope they surprise everyone. :D

[IgglesII]

Originally posted by icefreak
This just in from Detroit - Ryan O'meara and Lydia Manon are skating together.

I bet that doesn't come as a shock to his former partner.

[butterfly]

Originally posted by IgglesII
I bet that doesn't come as a shock to his former partner. Probably just a big giggle :)

[WeBeEducated]

oh, I know Stephen is a nice guy, but that wasnt my point. All of the top 10 at Mids were actually good, and had a variety of strengths, so the fact that she is skating with a partner who was 9th at Mids in NOVICE doesnt mean she has a horrible partner, but it does mean that she went way way way down the line to find someone willing, if not able!