My e-mail to Joseph Iantorno, CEO, of iskater.com

[snohflake]

Call me a sucker.

I cannot believe I spent money on this so-called service offered by iskater. I should have known there would be problems as soon as I got my Amex bill and realized I was charged $10 more for the subscription than what was advertised. And forget the nonsense about the exchange rates, if a subscription rate is listed in US dollars, and my Amex bill is in US dollars, the two figures should match.

Here it is, January 2003, the height of the skating season, and your headlines are from OCTOBER, 2002? The message board service is down, and has been for I don’t know how long. The iskater online store has zero inventory listed. Shame on Paul Martini for using his name to draw people and their money into this sink-hole of a venture. Seriously, if iskater is not financially solvent (and it would be no wonder given how this has been run since day 1 when the huge potential consumer base that was FSW was simply discarded and thus alienated) just do everybody a favor and pull the plug. It would be better than putting up this hoax of a website.

[Blade1]

Very Well Said snohflake ! Have you heard back from them ?

Its really unfortunate that this has happened. Is there any chance for members of iskater to get some sort of refund ?

I am just so glad that I didn't decided to join after they axed FSW !!

[amethyst]

Maybe everyone who paid for the service can call their credit card companies and dispute the charge?

They did not provide and are not currently providing any of the things that they were charging money for, and to me that's really close to being fraudulent.

[snohflake]

I already tried that route . . . actually I contested the charges right when it hit my bill. Here's the crazy part, when I got the response back from Amex that the charge would stand (even though I clearly proved that I was overcharged by $10) it came with 4 pages of supposed documentation with all the data filled out (really it was just pages from the iskater online subsription policy with some other Amex forms) and guess who did all this paperwork? Joseph Iantorno. I figured iskater must be DESPERATE for the money to #1) take so much time to fight my claim, and #2) the CEO was the one personally doing all this 8O

I had never read such jibberish about exchange rates. The subscription form gave the cost in US dollars and obviously my Amex bill is in US dollars, but iskater came up with a load of rubbish about changes in the Canadian exchange rate. Oh puhhhleaze! There was almost no change in the Canadian/US Dollar rate during the whole time period of the initial charge and the bill. And I can't remember a time when the exchange rate changed so much as to create a $10 fluctuation on $60 some dollars. :x

[GrapeSoda]

That's really awful. Hope you get some kind of results from your complaint, snohflake.

[snohflake]

Thanks you guys. At the end of the day, I'm not mad about the money per se, but how poorly iskater management has handled things. It's just bad business. And they still have the link to sign up for subscriptions = they are still taking people's money.

When you think about the number of folks that had participated on FSW, if iskater had attempted to embrace this group vs flipping the switch and dumping everybody they might have had more people interested in subscriptions . . . the more people = the greater the buzz . . . which would attract even more folks, etc. etc. Iskater might then have had the money to run the thing properly. Who knows what has really happened with iskater management, but based on the state of the website it would seem as though its demise is just around the corner. Once that happens nobody (subscription holders) will get any money back because the legal entity will declare bankruptcy and I doubt that subscription holders would even be treated as the lowly class of unsecured creditors.

So in conclusion, YAY ADRIAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

[Flatfoote]

You know, there just has to be a way to recover funds for a service paid for and never given. If all of you who have suffered through this got together and started a class action suit? I don't know if that's how it could be handled or not.

Yes, I know this country is "sue happy." But, these guys should not be allowed to get away with it!

Here's a message board for Troubleshooting you could try posting your problem on. You may get some good advice. But, some of these people tend to get pretty ruthless and unforgiving, especially if they percieve the victim to be an idiot who got suckered in....(just warning you).

http://troubleshooter.com/

[md2be]

You could report them to the web-based ripoff report and tarnish their name as well as let others know you have been frauded.

here is a link: http://www.ripoffreport.com/

also, the better business bureau (although time consuming) can help.

[Melanie Z]

Well, I probably wouldn't waste any more time over trying to tarnish their name, report them to the BBB, go after them for failure to deliver service etc. because at this point it looks like it's a pretty done deal that iskater/FSW are dead as a doornail.

I clicked on their site for grins to see if they were even still around and the subscription link is there but if you click on it, it says it is unavailable. So they are not recruiting/signing up new subscribers (like they could get any anyway). FSW message board is down and nothing has been updated in forever.

I used to work for a large ISP that did web hosting, and I had clients whose servers stayed up for MONTHS after they had gone out of business or bankrupt. Also, if they are in bankruptcy, the hosting service cannot terminate them until the trustee sorts it all out.

Game over and if you lost $, then it stinks. You got you know what. Those people over at iskater blew it, with a built in client base like FSW, they should have been able to make it work. Thank goodness for Adrian though!

[snohflake]

That's interesting Melanie. I was wondering how a bankruptcy plays out when it relates to a web site. I really had no idea how the courts deal with websites that have no true receivables and no hard assets.

I also didn't realize the subscription link was not working. Hmm, when I sent my e-mail to iskater, I sent it to the subscription address as well as the feedback address and the one that went to the subscription address was returned as undeliverable.

As far as trying to tarnish their name, I think they did that all on their own. But did anybody click on that link that md2be put up? The ripoffreport.com? Now that's some crazy stuff! I couldn't stop reading the stories!

[venice]

Has anyone else had problems like this?

[snohflake]

If anyone else out there has spent money on iskater.com subscriptions and would like to contact Joseph Iantorno to find out the status of the site, here is the following information listed on networksolutions.com (after doing a domain name search), i.e. this is listed as public information:

IANTORNO, JOSEPH
54 Halsey Avenue
TORONTO, ONTARIO M4B 1A5
(416) 701 1046
jiantorno@rogers.com

[Messalina]

I almost lost money on iskater. In fact, I tried to. About a month or two ago, when I decided I needed even more skating food-for-thought than I was already getting from the boards I already frequent. But the subscription engine wouldn't accept my credit card information, and then I sort of got sidetracked, finally came back here to lurk and read voraciously as I always have. I've always been really happy to find these boards after FSW went kablooey and iskater closed ranks, espcially since Adrian was at the helm when I first joined FSW way back when and it seemed like home again.

But I always wondered what, if anything, I was missing by not joining iskater. Especially during the peak of the season, I was certain the boards over there must be sizzling. I feel really bad for any of you who lost money on this. I really can't believe that the incredible built-in asset of the FSW fan base was totally squandered! It must have taken enormous negative business acumen to manage that.

[md2be]

The Ripoff Report is a FANTASTIC website.

If you want real horror, read the stories about moving companies....Yes, I was a victim. I wish I had known about ripoff report BEFORE hiring my fraudulent movers. Now I check out everything there before I make a big purchase....I just checked out some online mortgage companies so that I wouldnt get screwed.

Add to your favorites!

[GrapeSoda]

And some of those categories feature trainwrecks aplenty. "Adultery!?"

I always figured that iskater pulled the plug on FSW to cut way down on their bandwidth costs, which must have been pretty high. It was a rotten thing to do to the loyal users of the site, and it's even more awful if they're now going to reward the people who actually signed up with them by taking the money and running. For shame.

[speedy]

Wow that ripoff report site confirms a lot of the suspicions I have about the business world in general LOL, very disturbing stuff. Personally I research everything major purchase I buy any more on the 'net on sites like CNET and epinions.com to get other buyers' ratings of products...makes it much easier to know what brands are good buys and what aren't.

As far as Iskater, I feel bad for those of you who lost money, but can't say I'm sorry to see they're gone. The way they handled the FSW switchover last year was shameful and a debacle. They were obviously clueless.

[Tapper]

The way they handled the FSW switchover last year was shameful and a debacle. They were obviously clueless.
GrapeSoda

I totally agree, Grape Soda! In addition I would like to say that it was a bummer... at least for me, since FSW was a real comfort zone for me. I'm a skating fan, but did not feel I could afford to pay to participate in a forum. I liked FSW a lot and felt rather lost when I realized that the community was going to be dispersed

- I remain grateful to Adrian for skatingforums, which has totally fulfilled my needs for skating talk. I'll confess that this is the only forum of any kind that I regularly participate in - So, let this be a thank you to Adrian for taking us in!

Tapper

[crazyaboutelvis]

I had signed up for the service origanally.Decided to see if I could sign up.It won't work.So I tryed as a new user on the page is stated they aren't taking applications.I sent a email and it bounced back with permenate failure boards@ iskater.com unknown.I guess they gasped their last breath.:evil:

[jp1andOnly]

I didn't sign up but wanted to see if I would get anywhere. All my emails bounced back and their telephone number is disconnected. Sorry to all the people who spent their money at iskater. Looks like they are gone.

[Trillian]

!

[IgglesII]

Originally posted by speedy

As far as Iskater, I feel bad for those of you who lost money, but can't say I'm sorry to see they're gone. The way they handled the FSW switchover last year was shameful and a debacle. They were obviously clueless.

I agree with that statement except for one thing - the part about feeling bad for those that lost money.

How long have we been discussing the demise of FSW and iSkater on this and a multitude of other boards and mailing lists now?

Anybody who signed up, or attempted to sign up, with iSkater in the past six months got what they deserved. Same principle as telling someone not to touch the oven when it's on or they'll get burned, yet they insist on touching it anyway. If you didn't want to listen and had to find out for yourself, then too bad if you lost money.:x

[snohflake]

I'm sure that there are folks out there that signed up within the past six months that never surfed other sites and had no idea what the rumors were that were swirling around. So how could these people "deserve what they got"? :roll:

As for me, I had the misfortune of joining on early, like almost from the beginning. I had purchased their live coverage services before and really liked them. I enjoyed getting the running commentary from Paul and seeing the pictures that were being posted during the event. Given those prior purchase experiences, I thought it would be a good service so when it went subscription-only in May '02, the last thing I was thinking was that this venture was shaky and was going to tank. I also believed (mistakenly so) that Paul Martini would be careful about his professional involvements so as to not tarnish his name.

[adrianchew]

Originally posted by snohflake

I also believed (mistakenly so) that Paul Martini would be careful about his professional involvements so as to not tarnish his name.

FWIW, Joe Iantorno's brother, Tony Iantorno - was formerly a Director of Financial Planning and Business Development at NBC. Part of the whole risk with startups - some succeed, and quite a number tank.

[bbtano]

snohflake, I did the same thing.....purchased the one-event coverage and enjoyed it, so I paid for a year long subscription. It was before we knew they were going under.....before they pulled FSW.

Money down the drain......win some, lose some I guess. It's really unfortunate that there are no other companies/websites with the live play-by-play service available. (if there are and I just don't know about them yet, please enlighten me!)

I was really disappointed and hurt by the way iskater handled closing down FSW, so even though I still had access I only went there occasionally to see how many people (if any) were still posting. I had hoped they would still be able to offer some of the live coverage they had promised, though.

[snohflake]

That's interesting Adrian. I was wondering about their backgrounds. And I've always wondered how the switch happened when FSW went from you to iskater. Without getting too personal, did you own the domain name and they bought it from you? How do those things work?

Hey bbtano. It's nice to know I'm not the only one.:D

[arena_gal]

Joseph Iantorno and Anthony Iantorno's other venture:

www.vortisol.com

jiantorno@vortisol.com -- it's linked into the same domain servers and physical addresses as iskater so who knows if it's valid, but it is their published contact email for the Italian Chamber of Commerce.


They're bigwigs with the Toronto Italian Chamber of Commerce. http://www.italchambers.ca . You can complain to them at info.toronto@italchambers.net or the chairman is Mr. Ronald J. Farano rfarano@gardiner-roberts.com (g-r is a huge law firm in Toronto)

I've thought for a few days about posting these links, but I feel that if a businessman is a member of a Chamber of Commerce, they should have integrity in their own business ventures, and this information is in the public domain simply by doing a web search on "Iantorno".

The failure of iSkater is not a good thing for figure skating and to leave it hanging is a blow to the skating community and fanbase. Go and get your money back!

[Patsy]

bbtano, count me in with the same story! Being a "visual type" I valued the pix and the running commentary and signed up for the year before World's last year. Oh well, sometimes the ship sinks underneath you.

I *would* have been nice to have had some sort of closing e-mail from them explaining the situation and saying "goodbye" or whatever. But then, these are the folks who pulled the plug on F$W with no notice, so who am I kidding??:roll:

[kimkom]

Originally posted by snohflake


As for me, I had the misfortune of joining on early, like almost from the beginning. I had purchased their live coverage services before and really liked them. I enjoyed getting the running commentary from Paul and seeing the pictures that were being posted during the event. Given those prior purchase experiences, I thought it would be a good service so when it went subscription-only in May '02, the last thing I was thinking was that this venture was shaky and was going to tank. I also believed (mistakenly so) that Paul Martini would be careful about his professional involvements so as to not tarnish his name.

I'm another one who signed up at the very beginning. After I realized I'd been duped, I emailed them and requested my subscription be cancelled and that I be credited for the remainder of the year.....obviously I had no reply and my subscription remains.

I've just called it a loss and moved on...

Kim

[Toeloopy]

For what it's worth, Paul Martini quit iskater after Skate America.

[Jenny]

Not surprising, but not very impressive either. My view is that he is just as responsible, and in fact more so. I would have had more admiration for him if he had at least tried to make peace with skating fans, instead of walking away from the situation. Not good for his image in the skating community IMO.

His name is still on the web site by the way.

Jenny

[Sk8tfan]

I'm sorry you didn't have success with Amex Snohflake, but, I would still recommend to others that you dispute the charge w/your credit card company - especially if you still have time left on your original subscription. I work for a large credit card issuer and actually managed the department handling disputes @ 3 years ago. The rules for Visa and MasterCard are a bit different than for Amex and the outcome could also differ based on the nature of your dispute.

For example, if you disputed the charge on the basis of the difference in price you probably won't get far if iskater can show that they disclosed the Canadian exchange rate in the small print. If, however, the basis for your complaint is that the services you paid for were not rendered you will stand a very high chance of getting your money back - or at least a prorated refund based on the time period for your subscription and the date you discovered the services were no longer available. I would suggest the lack of response to emails, unavailability of the forum and the lack of updates for the past 4 months.

Another alternative is to advise your credit card company you are initiating a "claim or defense" dispute. This is a way to dispute something on the basis of the quality of goods or services. The requirements are:

Disputed amount is greater than $50
Transaction occurred within your home state (online transactions are considered to have taken place in your home so this would qualify)
You tried in good faith to resolve with the vendor (again I would site inability to reach by phone, email, etc.)
You can only dispute any portion that is unpaid at the time of your claim. In other words, if you have already paid the credit card charge, you have lost your rights.

Again, you have 60 days from the point you determined you could not resolve with the merchant - even if the charge is a year old.

Sorry for the long post. Hope this might help some of you!

[what?meworry?]

quite frankly, it's not worth your time and effort, which is probably worth a lot more in productive endeanors than "getting" the con artist.

deal with it, you were screwed, had, conned. so was i. i also requested a refund in july of last year. never heard a word back. e-mailed again, no response.

based on the postings, there weren't all that may fools as we who thought fsw would continue with legitimate posters (there were an incredible number of posters with multiple pseuds who swarmed "enemies" toward the end) and have more civilized discussions.

and, besides, it's a canadian company hosted in ontario. what makes you think there is any control over such questionable practices in canada?

[Lee]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
and, besides, it's a canadian company hosted in ontario. what makes you think there is any control over such questionable practices in canada? Are you saying there are no controls over questionable business practices in Canada? As compared to what??

iskater is (was) a company whose officers made a LOT of bad decisions and apparently have paid the price by going out of business. Along the way, just like other businesses with bad decision-making, clients lost money. This is not something that's confined to Canada...